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old school student
01-13-2006, 04:54 AM
This list excludes 4 people sugar ray robinson, who i will consider a middleweight/the best welter, tommy ryan who was more of a middleweight, and same goes for lou Brouillard, and the Great Joe walcott who contain no film, but was clearly the best welterweight from pre 20's era.
Includes Walker who spent the majority of the 20's at welter, and Basilio and Griffith.
This List is designed with the notion of head to head Compition level's not career merit.
1. Sugar Ray Leonard
2. Mickey Walker(Sugar on points)
3. Emile Griffith(got ko'd by Walker in 13)
4.Thomas Hearns(knocked out by griffith, after flooring him 2x)
5. Luis Rodriguez(koed by Hearns in 14)
6. Henry Armstrong(lost a real close war with Luis Manuel)
7. Carmen Basilio(Henry too much for basilio ko in 12)
8. Cocoa Kid(lost a close fight w/carmen and won a split dec 15 over Napoles)
9. Jose Napoles (not much seperating these guys but cocoa faced way better competion than Napoles)
10. Wilfred Benitez(Bit tougher than the others,plus throws alot)
11. Barney Ross(these guys have great resumes)
12. Jimmy Mclarnin(thrashed Benny Leonard, among others)
13. Felix Trinidad(this is where Felix falls short of losing decsions to both but better than the rest)
14. Kid Gavilan
15. Marty Servo(these 2 very close)
That's the way i see it.
Thoughts..

Roberto Aqui
01-13-2006, 10:14 AM
Sugar Ray Robinson

Sugar Ray Leonard

Henry Armstrong

Barbados Joe Walcott

Barney Ross

Kid Gavilan

Emile Griffith

Thomas Hearns

Jose Napoles

Mickey Walker

Jimmy McLarnin

Jack Britton

Ted (Kid) Lewis

Carmen Basilio

Tommy Ryan

Luis Rodriguez

Pernell Whitaker

Wilfred Benitez

Charley Burley

Roberto Duran



Just missing the cut: Felix Trinidad, Oscar De la Hoya, Fritzie Zivic, Young Corbett III, Young Jack Thompson, Mike Gibbons, Billy Graham, Holman Williams, Jackie Fields, Aaron Pryor, and Dixie Kid.

HEGrant
01-13-2006, 08:57 PM
Roberto, didn't you say that Duran beat Leonard while Leonard was trying to box and not slug ? Didn't that mean that Duran was able to beat Leonard at his best fighting his best strategy ? If that is the case, how do you have Leonard, who lost to Duran rated 18 fighters higher than Duran at welter ???? :eek :lol

PeteLeo
01-13-2006, 08:59 PM
That was the IBRO rankings, wasn't it? PeteLeo.

HEGrant
01-14-2006, 01:08 AM
That explains that. I knew it could not be from him.

How anyone could rate Duran that low at welter is crazy to me. Evan in the second Leonard bout, whatever he may have done or not done in training, he was still very competitive and Leonard was exceptional at welter.

hawk5ins
01-31-2006, 07:25 PM
1-Sugar Ray Robinson(Never better than at 147)
2-Sugar Ray Leonard
3-Thomas Hearns
4-Emile Griffith
5-Jose Napoles
6-Kid Gavilan
7-Roberto Duran(One night in Montreal. But a Special performance. Plus the Palomino whuppin.)
8-Henry Armstrong
9-Marcel Cerdan(European comp aside)
10-Mickey Walker
11-Charley Burley
12-Barney Ross
13-Wilfred Benitez
14-Carmen Basilio (he gives ANYONE hell on this list Robby on down.)
15-Luis Rodriguez( I think his brief reign is held agianst him too much.)
16-Donald Curry(Short prime, but very sweet)
17-Pernell Whitaker (not really a welter, but he proved he belongs)
18-Felix Trinidad (No I don't think we saw Pea Near his best this night)
19-Joe Walcott
20-Jimmy McLarnin
21-Jack Britton
22-Ted Kid Lewis
23-Tommy Ryan
24-Pipino Cuevas
25-Marlon Starling(Yes Starling. You never know if you are going to get his best from him, but if you did.... BTW, I had him beating Blocker. Terrible eyesore on his resume though.)

Mr E
02-01-2006, 01:37 AM
1-Sugar Ray Robinson
2-Sugar Ray Leonard
3-Mickey Walker (p4p, he peaked @ middle, IMO)
4-Charley Burley (why doesn't anyone rate him here?)
5-Jose Napoles (very under-rated today)
6-Felix Trinidad
7-Thomas Hearns
8-Emile Griffith
9-Roberto Duran (under-rated @ welter)
10-Henry Armstrong (better @ 135 and below, IMO)
11-Joe Walcott (based on rep)
12-Kid Gavilan
13-Barney Ross (better @ 135)
14-Jimmy McLarnin (better @ 135, although never won the title)
15-Tommy Ryan (based on rep)

StingerKarl
02-01-2006, 02:00 AM
I have Napoles at The Top.

Karl

walsh b
02-01-2006, 06:33 PM
Duran on his performance V Leonard has to be top 5. Leonard number 1, Hearns 2 and Duran 3. Whitaker no way, he competed in a time when Lightweights were ruling the division. He's not close to a natural Welter and wouldn't stand a chance against a true classy Welter like Leonard, Hearns, Curry, Griffith, Rodrigues, and even Starling or Llyod Honeygan

gregbeyer
02-01-2006, 06:50 PM
duran beat palomino, leonard AND cuevas at welter...still i will always consider him a lightweight.

i always rate napoles higher than most in these polls.
greg

thumper3852
02-02-2006, 01:32 PM
I tend to go with Ray Robinson #1, Naploes #2, Leonard a possible #3

That said, however, I also think the Duran of Montreal could have probably beat King Kong....he just wasn't going to be denied that night........

HEGrant
02-18-2006, 12:16 PM
The Duran of Montreal is top five or six, right up with Robinson, Leonard, Napoles, Armstrong, Whitaker. I rate Hearns at 154, his all time best weight and where he never lost...he stayed at welter too short a time.