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beddows
07-30-2005, 01:29 PM
Anyone know how Bruce is nowdays? He wasn't as skilled as younger brother Don - but sure had desire and one helluva left hook.
His fights with Benitez (first one) and Monroe Brooks were classics.

StingerKarl
07-31-2005, 10:56 PM
Bruce is not in good shape.
I would prefer not to make any more comments regarding his current condition other than to say he is being cared for by family members.
Terrific action fighter of the 70's who was always in top condition-he was a fanatical trainer.
You never saw an ounce of fat on Bruce Curry-and he would fight anyone, anywhere, anytime.
Very good World's Champion that provided action for the fans every fight he ever fought.
Karl

beddows
08-01-2005, 09:45 AM
Thanks Karl. Knew he had mental demons, of course, but from your post I gain the impression his hard career has caught up with him physically.
So sad.

Chuck1052
08-02-2005, 02:34 AM
In the heart and dedication departments, Bruce
Curry had a big advantage over his brother,
Donald. But Donald had much more in the way
of boxing talent and skill than Bruce.

I often wondered if Jesse Reid was a little too
brave with Bruce Curry and Jesse Burnett while
managing both fighters. Taking a look at both
Bruce's and Burnett's records, Reid was matching
both fighters against very tough opposition very
early.

Bruce didn't have very many bouts under his
belt when he was matched with Rafael Rodrigeuz
in a scheduled ten-round bout on television.
The fight was a tough one and even after
ten rounds, so the two fighters fought
a tie-breaking round, which Bruce won.

Get this.....Bruce Curry was a natural junior
welterweight. Yet he fought a very tall
welterweight named Thomas Hearns with
a predictable result. Yes, I know that
Wilfredo Benitez also fought Hearns, but
we are talking about Bruce Curry wasn't
at the same level in terms of talent and
skill as Benitez. To this day, I thought
that Curry didn't have any business being
in the same ring as Hearns.

Jesse Burnett was a substitute in a bout
on a major network. The big problem was
that Burnett was in the United States and
the bout was scheduled to take place in
Europe when he got the call. As a result,
Burnett got a case of "jet lag" at the time
of the bout. Although Burnett did well in
the early rounds, he collapsed later in the
bout. I often wondered if Burnett had
doubts about his stamina because he
fought at a deliberate pace after that
debacle.

Another fact to consider is that Burnett
worked as a gardener full-time while he
was a boxer. I have been told that
holding down a full-time job harms
one's boxing career. Well..I would
think that Burnett would be tired while
working AND doing the necessary training.

Back to Bruce Curry.....I read that he fell
apart towards the end of his career. If
he isn't doing well at this time, I am sorry
to learn about that. After what he gave
to boxing and the fans, he deserves to
be healthy and rich.

- Chuck Johnston

kikibalt
08-02-2005, 05:40 PM
Jesse Reid in my opinion is one of the most over rated manager and trainer

Frank B.

beddows
08-03-2005, 06:24 PM
Harsh words. Jesse had zero connections in the 70's and was forced to take his men on the road. When he joined up with Billy Baxter in the 80's (and later with HBA), he proved what he could do by steering Curry, Frank Tate and Roger Mayweather to world titles. They all won their world titles against the odds.
Give the man some credit. Jesse Burnett was the Glencoffe Johnson of his day; robbed in so many big fights it wasn't funny. Bruce Curry had it tough, and Jesse admitted putting him in with Hearns was a mistake, but it was Reid who faced the gun when he told Bruce it was all over.
Others were encouraging the fighter to go on.

kikibalt
08-03-2005, 06:42 PM
Beddows

You have your opinion on Jessie Reid an you have a right to your opinion , but i know Jessie an my opinion stands, my opinion is only as a manager and trainer not as a person

Frank B.

Chuck1052
08-04-2005, 04:48 AM
If I were a matchmaker, I would rather have had
Bruce Curry fighting on my boxing cards than Jesse
Burnett any day of the year. Curry was one exciting
fighter while Burnett was not.

It could be that Jesse Reid didn't have much in the
way of connections during the 1970s. That could
be one reason Burnett had trouble getting bouts.
But think about this....Burnett had a dull boxing
style and was a light-heavyweight living in the
Los Angeles area during his career. At both
the Forum and the Olympic Auditorium, the boxing
fans liked the smaller aggressive fighters at that
time. Under such conditions, Burnett wasn't
going to get many bouts in his home area.

I think the matchmakers loved Bruce Curry because
he was an exciting fighter who had alot of heart and
was in great condition. In other words, it is hard
to believe that Jesse Reid had trouble getting Bruce
bouts.

- Chuck Johnston

blv30
09-17-2005, 04:59 PM
Did Bruce ever have a chance to sign for a fight against Aaron Pryor?

StingerKarl
09-17-2005, 08:02 PM
I don't know, blv: but Bruce would have not beaten Aaron.
He would have given Pryor a good fight for a few rounds-but then Pryor would have stopped him.
Karl

gregbeyer
09-17-2005, 09:07 PM
jesse reid had a short boxing career. boxrec lists less fights than i believe he had. in my memory i remember reid being undefeated at 10-0 when he fought rudy robles at the olympic. after losing a unanimous decision jesse was said to have asked manager jackie mccoy about his future. honest as ever, jackie replied that he thought jesse was a step or two behind becoming a contender so why risk it.

jackie then took jesse under his wing as a trainer. jackie was closely tied to the olympic auditorium, often worked with eddie futch and had business dealings with mickey duff as well as being respected world wide. my question is how did jesse lack connections?

i echo chucks feeling on curry. he was a crowd pleaser and very marketable. jesse burnett realy was a part time fighter. he had many skills but never dedicated himself fully to becoming a champion.
greg

gregbeyer
09-18-2005, 12:50 AM
BTW. saw jesse reid this last june 11th at the lucky eagle casino working the corner of sean plessis who won his fight. for what ever anyone has against jesse he has been around a long time now.
greg

blv30
02-09-2006, 07:32 PM
Was Bruce's second fight with Wilfred a close fight, or did Benitez just walk all over him?

StingerKarl
02-10-2006, 02:27 AM
blv;
I have both fights, and Bruce tried hard in the return, but a beautifully conditioned Wilfred outboxed him handily in a great exhibition of the manly art of self defense.
Hit and not be hit.
Karl

Capslock
06-30-2006, 01:02 AM
I always thought Bruce was a far better fighter than brother Don.

He got robbed against Benitez in their first fight.

And then they had him fight in Japan and fly back to the US and fight Benitez less than a week later so Benitez could win the second fight.

Capslock
06-30-2006, 01:07 AM
How many times did Jesse Burnett knock Leon Spinks down?

And then they gave Leon Spinks the "decision."

Talk about a robbery.

PeteLeo
06-30-2006, 01:21 AM
I didn't see the fight, but Boxrec doesn't list any official knockdowns, and they usually note the number of knockdowns that take place in individual bouts.
Of course, "usually" is not the same as "always." PeteLeo.

Capslock
06-30-2006, 12:36 PM
Boxrec is a mess.

Burnett knocked Leon Spinks down two or three times and

then was robbed (for the umpteenth time in his career) in the "decision.".

I saw it with my own eyes.

Boxrec is riddled with mistakes.

PeteLeo
06-30-2006, 07:03 PM
Did the ref count them as actual knockdowns or "slips"? I remember SweetPea going down like a concrete Mae West every time Trinidad went in for the kill and getting rest time for those alleged "slips." PeteLeo.

Capslock
06-30-2006, 07:44 PM
If you are interested, see the fight for yourself.

How many times did Angelo Dundee's referee Harold Valan call Floyd Patterson's knockdowns of Jimmy Ellis "slips" ?

Merchante called a clear knockdown of Ali by Frazier a "slip." (11th round of first fight).

Don King's referee called a clear knockdown of Larry Holmes by Mike Weaver a "slip."

The New York referee called a slip by Bob Foster in the first round of his title defense with Frankie DePaula a "knockdown."
Foster said, "You're not going to get away with that," and knocked down DePaula three times to end the fight.

KOJOE90
07-01-2006, 07:10 AM
Boxrec is a mess.

In defence of Boxrec it's still an ongoing work in progress. It's free to use and there is no subscription to pay.

People are also free not to use it, if they so wish to do so of course.

10-8
07-01-2006, 07:46 AM
Boxrec is a mess.

Burnett knocked Leon Spinks down two or three times and

then was robbed (for the umpteenth time in his career) in the "decision.".

I saw it with my own eyes.

Boxrec is riddled with mistakes.

Burnett DID NOT floor Leon Spinks. Watch the fight or at the very least read Ring Magazine's report of the fight. He was robbed of the decision and counter punched Leon beautifully but he never floored him.

Leon's chin held up against cruisers like Burnett, DeLeon and Quawi.

thumper3852
07-01-2006, 01:33 PM
I'm going to agree strongly here with KOJOE..........I'm certain one can find mistakes on BOXREC...but for the most part its a useful service and a very commendable project that benefits boxing fans to a far larger degree than any harm some errors may cause.

If someone can do better, however, I say have at it. Until then.................

Capslock
07-01-2006, 04:45 PM
I certainly agree that Boxrec a very commendable project.

But to quote it as gospel is a mistake.

bodyblow
07-01-2006, 05:33 PM
Ali knocked down Frazier in the 11th of their first fight? HA that is ridiculous. Ive seen that fight a million times. Its one of my favorites and Ali did little but absorb a beating in that round. Mercante is probably the best ref Ive ever seen and to imply that he was somehow in the bag for Frazier is ridiculous, in fact he scored the fight closer than anyone having a two point margin for Frazier which is far to generous to Ali.

Capslock
07-01-2006, 06:38 PM
Merchante stuck his finger in Frazier's eye in the 10th round of the first Frazier-Ali fight as he was breaking a clinch
.
Frazier jumped back, waved his right arm at his corner, then waved his left arm toward the referee, Merchante.

At the end of the same round, Frazier caught Ali on the ropes and and gave Ali a terrible beating with his left hook.

The minute's rest wasn't enough for Ali to recover from the beating he took on the ropes.

Shortly after the 11th round started, Frazier hit Ali on the chin with his left hook and Ali went down on both knees. Frazier went to a neutral corner, and then looked stunned to see Merchante calling it a slip and not counting.

Ali staggered around for the rest of the round like he was auditioning for a role as a drunk in a third rate silent movie.

Even Ali employeee Ferdie Pacheco called that round "the terrible 11th" in a book he wrote.

Your favorite referee Merchante also hacked at Frazier's arms throughout the fight, despite the fact that Ali was making all the clinches.

That is the only fight I know of in the entire history of boxing where a referee stuck his fingers in a fighter's eye.

10-8
07-01-2006, 09:37 PM
Merchante stuck his finger in Frazier's eye in the 10th round of the first Frazier-Ali fight as he was breaking a clinch
.
Shortly after the 11th round started, Frazier hit Ali on the chin with his left hook and Ali went down on both knees. Frazier went to a neutral corner, and then looked stunned to see Merchante calling it a slip and not counting.

Ali WAS NOT legitimately floored in the 11th. Watch the tape. Frazier lands a moderate left hook and Ali takes a step to his left into Frazier's corner, his foot steps in a clearly visible wet spot on the canvas before Ali throws his own left hook and his foot that was in the wet spot shoots straight out. Ali did not go down on his knees. He was on one knee and the leg that slipped out under him was straight. Don Dunphy at ringside immediately noted it was a slip, it was pretty obvious.

I've also never seen a camera angle of Frazier's face "looking stunned". I have both the film and video version of this fight shot from different sides of the ring and I've never seen a camera angle of Frazier at this point in the fight. The camera was on Ali not Frazier "looking stunned that Mercante was calling it a slip".

Capslock
07-01-2006, 10:23 PM
Frazier hit Ali on the chin and Ali went down on his knees. Frazier has always said that was a knockdown. So do I.

The way Ali staggered around for the rest of the round showed that he was hurt.

Usually when Frazier hit someone on the chin and they went down it was called a knockdown.

Now tell us all about what Ali "slipped on" in the 15th round.

Capslock
07-01-2006, 10:25 PM
"Mercante is probably the best ref Ive ever seen"

Yes, along with Larry Hazzard, Richard STEAL, Harold Valan, Rudy Ortega, etc., I'm sure.

Ask Ron Lipton about Merchante's competence as a ref sometime.

Chuck1052
07-02-2006, 02:28 AM
In my opinion, Bruce Curry was NOT as good a fighter as
his brother, Donald, who had much more skill and talent.
But I will say that Bruce was much more dedicated and
had more heart than his brother.

- Chuck Johnston

10-8
07-02-2006, 09:55 AM
Ask Ron Lipton about Merchante's competence as a ref sometime.

I've read Ron's interview about referees and he was critical of Arthur Mercante JR.

thumper3852
07-03-2006, 04:53 PM
But to quote it as gospel is a mistake.

Who quoted it as gospel?

fatcity
07-04-2006, 01:59 PM
Its a shame that it seems that Bruce is not in a good way now, but he was in a lot of wars and was one of those fighters you could say was too brave for his own good. Against Benitez I think Bruce showed at least as much talent as Don, if not more, but too many tough fights, including the Benitez fights, the Brooks classic and the Hearns fight took a lot out of him and I think Bruce was only about 50 to 60% the fighter he'd been against Benitez when he won the 140 title from Haley. Looking back over his career you have to question the sanity in putting Bruce in there with Benitez in just about his 15th pro fight and the Hearns fight was almost a Kamikazie mission for Bruce... I wonder how good Bruce could have been if he had been brought along at a more even pace like his brother was, and would he have ended up in better condition at the end of it all...

Capslock
07-04-2006, 04:05 PM
Curry was through by the time he fought Hearns.

"I wonder how good Bruce could have been if he had been brought along at a more even pace."

Curry is a perfect example of a fighter whose so-called management did him no favors.

Georgie Benton is another good example. Those "managing" Benton were not his friends.

Earlier in his career Harold Johnson was thrown in with heavyweights like Jersey Joe Walcott and Arturo Godoy who out weighed him by 25 or more pounds and had years of experience over him.

(Later Nino Valdez outweighed Johnson by 35 pounds and Johnson won by the official's scores of 10-0, 10-0, 8-1-1.)

There are many other examples of fighters with no friends---
in contrast to the way an Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard were brought along.

Capslock
07-04-2006, 04:14 PM
"I've read Ron's interview about referees and he was critical of Arthur Mercante JR."

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/cbzforum/showthread.php?t=1312&page=2

Ron Lipton:

Quarry V Shavers was stopped too soon and Mercante Senior's foot hit Shavers very, very hard in the head on the way down. Shavers was fighting back at the end, and I heard some bad things about King Arthur's stoppage of that, less said the better anymore. I was sitting ringside with my cousin Steve and we both cringed at the foot kick in the head.

10-8
07-08-2006, 11:04 PM
Ron Lipton:

Quarry V Shavers was stopped too soon and Mercante Senior's foot hit Shavers very, very hard in the head on the way down. Shavers was fighting back at the end, and I heard some bad things about King Arthur's stoppage of that, less said the better anymore. I was sitting ringside with my cousin Steve and we both cringed at the foot kick in the head.

The interview I was referring to last week contained the following exerpt:


"How can NY use Mercante junior after witnessing his handling of Whitaker Vs Huertado on HBO where they said it was the worst refereeing job since Benny Kid Paret and Griffith? The handling of Beathoven Scotlandís final fight in NY, his horrific inept handling of Reggie Green Vs Charles Murray are things for a time capsule. His fatherís friendships with Gil Clancy, Howie Albert, Mike Katz and Jose Sulaiman have saved him many times. But enough is enough of deadly junior. Mercante JR let Lennox Lewis hold Michael Grant behind the head, and then knock him out without once stopping the illegal tactic -so flustered does junior get under pressure!"