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blv30
02-04-2006, 12:57 PM
In a fifteen round battle, could Bob take out Eddie or Eddie outmanuver Bob and win by late round stoppage or decision?

pendleton23
02-04-2006, 01:20 PM
Great match-up!I haven't seen enough footage of either boxer but couldn't Muhammad become too passive at times during his bouts?

Dragnet 69
02-04-2006, 02:24 PM
I always thought Eddie had the most pure talent/skill of that era. He also wasn't as motivated and conditioned as he could have been. I think had he ever used the great skills he had to the max he could have beaten Bobby. However, he didn't so I'd take Bob by a decision.

StingerKarl
02-04-2006, 08:26 PM
Good post by Dragnet.
Eddie with his physical gifts and skills could have been one of the best ever had he had more of the "Go Juice".
I agree Bob outpoints him, butdosen't get the knockout here.
Karl

Fat Abbot
09-25-2006, 06:04 AM
I think that Eddie would knock him out, he had the punching power and showed in the fights with Saad, Johnson and Spinks the toughness and chin that Foster never had, Eddie was also more skilled.

Eddie due to lack of punching may give up a few rounds and may even get dropped, but eventually he'd whack Foster just like he did near everyone else and get the KO.

Overhand_Right
09-26-2006, 07:46 AM
Ditto Fat Abbott. Eddie might trail in points, (he also may not), but at some point down the stretch he gets to Foster. Eddie wins by stoppage, Bob decidely beat up.

apollack
09-26-2006, 09:07 AM
I'm definitely taking Foster in this one. Skills were as good if not better, and his power was WAY better. Plus, Eddie was very inconsistent in my mind. Foster had a much better championship attitude, and in a tough fight, comes out on top.

Steve McV
09-26-2006, 10:03 AM
I'll take Foster at 4-3 odds.

Both men could box well on the offensive. I think Foster might have been more careful in that he didn't aste as many shots. Muhammed had above average power for the light-heavy but Foster was a terrific hitter for his class.

As far as stamina goes, I'll take Muhammed but not by much. Both men took a punch well.

I think the key lies on the defensive side of things. I think Foster's skills were just better, and by a fair bit, in this aspect of fighting. Muhammed would land some good shots but I think Foster would land more, which would wear his opponent down.

Foster by TKO in the 10th or 11th.

thumper3852
09-26-2006, 12:22 PM
I'm in the camp that sees Muhammad as a pure talent with every tool you'd want in a fighter........could have been one of the all time greats...great hand speed, nice moves, great punch, tough, etc..

But this one depends entirely on which Eddie Mustapha Muhammad shows up. If its the lazy Eddie, he's gone in 6 or 7...if it's the In-shape motivated Eddie, then you have a great fight on your hands...if Eddie avoids the bomb and boxes smartly, he can stay with and hurt Foster............it's a real pick-em fight that could go either way....but Eddie was a light heavy that could have possibly beat Foster.

Mr E
09-26-2006, 12:54 PM
I take Foster by decision.

I really loved Eddie's talent. I can still hardly believe he lost to Victor Galindez or that he managed to get his head handed to him by James Scott, but the guy was a complete head case. He had reflexes, balance, technique, power in both hands and an iron jaw. If only he'd have trained harder and been more active, he could have been a real all-timer. He should have cleaned out that division-- Galindez, Conteh, Saad Muhammad, none of them had anthing close to his talent. But he was an underachiever who just flat didn't have the fire in his belly that makes for a great competitor. And that, I think, gives Foster the edge.

starlingstomp
09-26-2006, 02:15 PM
Sure they were close to his talent-in fact i'd say galindez and Saad were just far more natural and instinctive fighters.

apollack
09-26-2006, 03:42 PM
At the risk of offending some, I am not impressed with Eddie at all. I think he's overrated. A dog. He stunk out the joint (literally) against Scott, looked average to poor in simply fighitng a survivalist fight against Spinks. I'm just not seeing it. Against Foster, an all time great who always showed up ready and was a killer at light heavy...geez, I'm not even sure Eddie deserves to be mentioned in the same breath.

Fat Abbot
09-26-2006, 08:32 PM
Eddie beat Galindez but got robbed.

If you watch the fight you'll see that Galindez was low blowing Eddie all night. Eddie finally responded in one of the later rounds with a low blow of his own, the 13th perhaps? Not sure. Anyhow the ref makes a 2 point deduction from Eddie for that 1 low blow, yet didn't take a single point away from Galindez who had low blowed Eddie atleast 40 times during that whole fight. That 2 point decuction revered the judges scores for that fight from a 1 point victory for Eddie to a 1 point win for Galindez. One of the worst screwjobs in boxing history.

It's laughable to say that galindez was even close to eddie in talent, if you look at how they each dealt with Marvin Johnson it's pretty obvious which one was just a tough strong guy and which one was a tough, strong guy who could put on a boxing/punching clinic when properly motivated.

Fat Abbot
09-26-2006, 09:02 PM
At the risk of offending some, I am not impressed with Eddie at all. I think he's overrated. A dog. He stunk out the joint (literally) against Scott, looked average to poor in simply fighitng a survivalist fight against Spinks. I'm just not seeing it. Against Foster, an all time great who always showed up ready and was a killer at light heavy...geez, I'm not even sure Eddie deserves to be mentioned in the same breath.
See I feel the exact opposite.

I think Foster was a dog. He fought 2 good dangerous punching LH's in Jones and Mina in his career and he wilted against both.

He's best victories at LH were KO's of Hank and Tiger, but Hank started his career as a welterweight and Tiger was a small middleweight who's best days were far behind him.

That's not exactly the best barometre for a fighter so huge that he started as a HW then moved down because he couldn't deal with fighting anyone his own size. I compare him to to the guy in school who walked with a swagger and wound up getting his butt kicked by his peers, then got held back a few grades and finally became the tough guy by throwing his weright around against smaller ppl.

I don't know, maybe I put too much thought into what fighters could do agtainst fighters bigger than them. With Foster Foster I would settle for a few good performances against someone great or even very good his own size.

Saad and Johnson were both much better LH's than anyone Foster beat and much more dangerous and Eddie showed great heart, power and skills against both.

I concede that Eddie was sometimes in poor condition, but even in poor condition he always acquitted himself well, apart from Scott. Snipes dropped Berbick and had Holmes closer to being out than anyone apart from Tyson and even in that fight where Eddie clearly wasn't inshape he still acquitted himself better than Foster did against any ranked HW contender. Eddie was the agressor and puncher, he had snipes running from him and took his best punches losing a decision.

Sharkey
09-27-2006, 10:10 AM
EMM coulda. Bob did.

Foster wins via decision.

Overhand_Right
09-27-2006, 10:20 AM
Too much dislike of EMM because of his fitness issues.

Best v Best, EMM has too much smarts & skills for Foster IMO. Also, Muhammad could hit like a heavy & that spells doom for Foster.

Sharkey
09-27-2006, 10:30 AM
If anything, the ADA's are swooping in with tons of corroborating evidence to patch together an Eddie Mustafa Muhammad defense in the absence of physical or eyewitness testimony....too much dislike of Foster based on fighting heavies who weren't named Eddie Gregory or Snipes or Berbick and who were not light heavyweights named Eddie Gregory. 6 degrees of EMM to bolster his case, without ever finding that performance that elevates him to the status of Foster.

The best Eddie was against who exactly at 175?

Jack Sharkey best v. best over Holyfield on the same rationale of "in shape and motivated he was................"? Would take less imagination than this.

EMM was talented. He was a very good fighter that had good wins. Perhaps however he was what he was...and maybe less focus in being applied to Foster's best efforts. Not maybe.

thumper3852
09-27-2006, 10:50 AM
No defense for the shoulda coulda....just an observation of his tools...

In a sick way I guess I'm always a bit fascinated with the talent squanderers, Eddie ranks way up on that list. It really pained me to see him in the fight with Michael Spinks, with his overweight out of shape ass laying on the floor from the patented Spinks sucker punch.....what a way to give up your title. Just disgusting..........

Fat Abbot
09-27-2006, 02:42 PM
Bob did what?

KO'd an old middleweighht?

Saad was a better LH than Bob ever faced, Marvin Johnson was Eddies best performance and he was a better LH than anyone Foster beat.

Eddie had the better wins against real LH's, he was only knocked out once as a finished fighter and if you think him losing a decision by a couple of points against Spinks was embarassing you should see Foster not even last 15 rounds in 2 fights combined against the great Doug Jones and murderous punching Ernie Terrel.

The only thing Foster did do that Eddie didn't was was get6 knocked out a bunch of times and rule a weak era.

Sharkey
09-27-2006, 02:45 PM
Exactly Thump.

Mr E
09-27-2006, 06:05 PM
See I feel the exact opposite.

I think Foster was a dog. He fought 2 good dangerous punching LH's in Jones and Mina in his career and he wilted against both.

He's best victories at LH were KO's of Hank and Tiger, but Hank started his career as a welterweight and Tiger was a small middleweight who's best days were far behind him.

That's not exactly the best barometre for a fighter so huge that he started as a HW then moved down because he couldn't deal with fighting anyone his own size. I compare him to to the guy in school who walked with a swagger and wound up getting his butt kicked by his peers, then got held back a few grades and finally became the tough guy by throwing his weright around against smaller ppl.

I don't know, maybe I put too much thought into what fighters could do agtainst fighters bigger than them. With Foster Foster I would settle for a few good performances against someone great or even very good his own size.

Saad and Johnson were both much better LH's than anyone Foster beat and much more dangerous and Eddie showed great heart, power and skills against both.

I concede that Eddie was sometimes in poor condition, but even in poor condition he always acquitted himself well, apart from Scott. Snipes dropped Berbick and had Holmes closer to being out than anyone apart from Tyson and even in that fight where Eddie clearly wasn't inshape he still acquitted himself better than Foster did against any ranked HW contender. Eddie was the agressor and puncher, he had snipes running from him and took his best punches losing a decision.

Tiger was one of the strongest middleweights ever and his chin was GRANITE. No matter how old he was, that was an impressive win for Foster.

The Snipes fight was bizarre. IMO, Eddie absolutely had the skills to win it if only he'd thrown any punches. He threw that fight away.

The Galindez fight was a lot closer than you say. IMO, the fight could have gone either way -- maybe a slight edge to Gregory -- but Eddie fought like he was on cruise control. Should have been an easy win-- Gregory was FAR more talented.

IMO, Eddie had the potential to be greater than Foster was but I don't think he got there. My guess is that, no matter what happened in the 1st 10 rounds, Bobbie would take over in rounds 11-15 and take the decision.

hagler04
09-28-2006, 11:55 AM
Bob did what?

KO'd an old middleweighht?

Saad was a better LH than Bob ever faced, Marvin Johnson was Eddies best performance and he was a better LH than anyone Foster beat.

Eddie had the better wins against real LH's, he was only knocked out once as a finished fighter and if you think him losing a decision by a couple of points against Spinks was embarassing you should see Foster not even last 15 rounds in 2 fights combined against the great Doug Jones and murderous punching Ernie Terrel.

The only thing Foster did do that Eddie didn't was was get6 knocked out a bunch of times and rule a weak era.

Are you going to try to say Eddie beats Ernie Terrel and Doug Jones? No way.

That being said, this is a tough matchup. I just saw Mustafa stink too many fights to see him beating a tough jabber with power who proved his consistency at Light HW.

Mr E
09-28-2006, 01:51 PM
Are you going to try to say Eddie beats Ernie Terrel and Doug Jones? No way.

That being said, this is a tough matchup. I just saw Mustafa stink too many fights to see him beating a tough jabber with power who proved his consistency at Light HW.

On his best day, I think Eddie probably does beat Doug Jones. Close one, IMO.

But I agree he doesn't beat Ernie Terrell.

Fat Abbot
09-28-2006, 02:56 PM
Are you going to try to say Eddie beats Ernie Terrel and Doug Jones? No way.

That being said, this is a tough matchup. I just saw Mustafa stink too many fights to see him beating a tough jabber with power who proved his consistency at Light HW.
LOL Doug Jones and Ernie terrel beat Eddie?

Steady Eddie would KO both of them on the same night.

Fat Abbot
09-28-2006, 03:42 PM
If you dream that Doug Jones beat Marvin Johnson, let alone Steady Eddie you better wake up and apologize!

Even the fat Steady Eddie from the Snipes fight would have fun beating up Ernie Terrel.

Mr E
09-29-2006, 01:32 PM
If you dream that Doug Jones beat Marvin Johnson, let alone Steady Eddie you better wake up and apologize!

Even the fat Steady Eddie from the Snipes fight would have fun beating up Ernie Terrel.

I don't know, man. I don't see how that happens. Ernie would just stand outside and pop that ramrod jab in all night long. Tough style match-up for Eddie.

Terrell wasn't much after Ali busted him up (he got back in the ring too soon), but he DID beat Cleveland Williams, Zora Folley, Eddie Machen, and George Chuvalo at different times in his career, so he was no 2nd-rater. According to legend, he also gave Sonny Liston Hell in sparring, too, for whatever that's worth.

Cojimar 1945
09-29-2006, 09:50 PM
Terrell was one of the better heavyweights of his era. He was only stopped early and late in his career and beat some good fighters like Machen and Chuvalo. I don't see how one can be sure how fighters from different eras compare in a head to head sense.

Fat Abbot
09-30-2006, 12:24 AM
I don't know, man. I don't see how that happens. Ernie would just stand outside and pop that ramrod jab in all night long. Tough style match-up for Eddie.

Terrell wasn't much after Ali busted him up (he got back in the ring too soon), but he DID beat Cleveland Williams, Zora Folley, Eddie Machen, and George Chuvalo at different times in his career, so he was no 2nd-rater. According to legend, he also gave Sonny Liston Hell in sparring, too, for whatever that's worth.
Height and reach imo is an ovrrated number, especially when it accompanies a fighter with minimal skills and abilities.

An Eddie tht wasn't in his best condition outboxed Spinks through the first 7 rounds, Spinks was 6'4 and a much faster, more powerful and skilled boxer than Terrel, so I doubt Eddie at his best would have any problems with slow, light punching Terrel, who basically only brought a slow, telegraphed jab to the table offensively.

Eddie was 6' or 6'1 and weighed 185 or 190 on fightnight. Compare him to Eriene Terrel opponents like Thad Spencer who was 5'11 and generally about 190-200 and he dominated Terrel. Wayne Bathea beat Terrel, was typically 200, 6' and most notable for being knocked out by a Sonny Liston jab, that btw is the difference between a ramrod and just a somewhat pesky nuisance of a jab.

Chuvalo and Folley were both alright wins, but their records showed that you didn't exactly need to be the cremer of the crop to beat either. Machen was just finished by the time Terrel fought him. Terrel was given a hard fight by a Doug Jones who got dominated by Thad Spencer in his next fight and stopped by Kirkman just a year later, Jones was past his prime and even in his prime he was not as good as Eddie, but perhaps good enough to beat Terrel. The Williams win was good for Ernie, but by the scoring it sounds like it could have went either way and a younger Williams did stop Terrel.

Personally I don't put too much thought into sparring, this is just me but a lot of the time when I spar I'm more interested in testing out certain moves or strategies than a moral win, or perhaps sometims fight passively just to work on defense. I saw Paul Spadafora actually get the better of Floyd Mayweather in sparring one time.

Ron Lipton
09-30-2006, 03:02 AM
If you live long enough you actually see men's memories and accomplishments forgotten, distorted or dilluted by another generation.
It is an inevetiable fact and phoenomena which I get used to day after day.
What I have read here about Doug Jones and Tiger makes me feel I am in a kindergarten twilight zone.

Doug Jones was one of the toughest guys I have ever seen lace them up with a great right hand and boxing skills beyond belief.

I sat ringside when Eddie was a middleweight watching him fight Mario Rosa, Cyclone Hart and others. I saw his whole career. I was at ringside for the Foster V Jones and Terrell fights and saw Bob come up live fighting Allen Thomas, Archie Moore's protege on live TV.

When Eddie lived in West Orange NJ where I went to high school I visited him often at his house and right in the middle of the entrance to his home, right in the middle of the floor he had a hanging heavy bag which we would hit together for hours.

I like Eddie very much and stayed friends throughout my referee career where we would always see each other at the fights.

I have much respect and admiration for him, his right hand power, his defensive skills etc. I know every move he had in that ring.

I spent less time with Foster in person but watched in awe what he did in that ring. Luke, The Force was with him.

Tiger is someone it can be said that I know better than most any living person left in boxing. To think of him as a small middleweight is insane. He was a B.I.G. middleweight. If you mean he was not a tall middleweight who is 6' and stretched out so thin to make 160, ok. He was an iron powerhouse with a chin of steel.

Bob Foster was a destroyer, with a great, great punishing jab, ring savvy, and both hands big time. He ruled the roost in devastating championship legend fashion.

With all respect to Eddie, Foster does the job on him in a very one sided fight, with Eddie going to the deck more than once until the referee stops it.

I cannot believe what I have read here about Foster, I guess if enough time goes by, anyone can say anything and actually believe it.

"A man has got to know his limitations."

Fat Abbot
09-30-2006, 09:54 PM
If thinking that Doug Jones is a great fighter and fat Tony Galento is some unstoppable monster comes with wisdom, then I hope I never gain it.

If Eddie were naturally a smallish middleweight that weighed 165 soaking wet like Tiger, I agree he'd be in trouble.

Unfortunately for Bob, Eddie was a big, strong LH with the punch and chin of a HW and the movement and skills of a LW. Bob would get his ass kicked, just like every other time he fought someone close to his size or slightly bigger.

Put Antonio Tarver in against Fosters opposition and he'd likely get similar results. Although even on an off day, Tarver would atleast last the distance against a Terrel and on his best day easily beat him.

thumper3852
09-30-2006, 10:10 PM
If thinking that Doug Jones is a great fighter and fat Tony Galento is some unstoppable monster comes with wisdom, then I hope I never gain it.


Well I don't think you're in any danger on that front, so you can stop worrying.

Did someone say Doug Jones was a "great" fighter or did someone classify Galento as an "unstoppable monster"?

I may have missed it. You could point it out to me at the same time you tell us about the "light hitting journeyman Ali", as in Muhammad Ali.

I can't wait.

Ron Lipton
09-30-2006, 10:19 PM
You have nothing to worry about. You won't have it.

Joe Louis admitted that Galento hit him one of the hardest shots he ever took.

Marciano said Galento was one of the roughest street fighters in the business and many boxing experts consider that little fat man as having one of the hardest left hooks of all time. He was some animal. The job he did on Lou Nova was chilling.

Doug Jones was a great fighter and his stoppage of Foster was amazing.

Eddie was a great ring mechanic and had a beautiful right hand and fought a great fight against Marvin Johnson and others.

Your demaning of a legend like Bob Foster is like the other experts say here, meant only to push buttons and get a rise out of other boxing guys.

Please buddy, spare me. I don't mean to disrepect you but your tone of writing is very riling and disrepectful, not so much to the others here which it is but the fighters whose shadow you could never walk in.

I have actually seen people write this kind of stuff before. It is hilarious really. They disrespect Sugar Ray Robinson, Tiger, Foster, Patterson, great great men in that ring.

Just hilarious and sad really. Wisdom, you say, well if you ever want it really, learn to listen to the people who were there, who knew these men, and appreciate their accomplishments like fine wine.

I knew Galento and man he was a force. Crude, yes, fat yes, but a powerhouse of danger with a left hook that I saw him throw on a heavy bag once while he was an old man. In the Ringside gym in Orange NJ in the 60's.

It almost tore the bag in half and looked harder to me than the ones I saw Sonny Liston throw in the gym.

Just listen now and then and you might learn something from us old fools, ok?

Ron Lipton
09-30-2006, 10:22 PM
Sorry for the spelling errors I was hurrying, I meant your "Demeaning" of these great fighters.

Fat Abbot
10-01-2006, 02:56 AM
Braddock knocked down Louis, does that make him a huge puncher as well?

From what I've read of the fight, Galento should have been banned from boxing for what he did to Nova. If he can't win a boxing match by fighting like a man instead of fouling his opponent to death he has no business in this sport. I respect Galento becoming a fair fighter in his era and dropping a Joe Louis that rightly so didn't take him very seriously. I have little respect for his actions in the ring and his disrecpect for the sport that made him a living. Any competetant referee from the modern era would have disqualified Tony, the ring seems to agree ~ Referee: George Blake ~
"..One of the most disgraceful fights staged since the days of the barroom brawls. Referee George Blake..would have retained his reputation as a great referee had he disqualified Galento." (The Ring, December 1939, page 16)

I've seen amateur boxers that had much more skills and class than Tony Galento, I've trained with grapplers that had more boxing skills than Tony Galento.

You can think what you want of him. I believe he was a thug who cheated because he lacked the ability to fight otherwise.

I think that Foster was a good fighter, but since his big victories came against much smaller men and since he was generally badly roughed by men close to his size or bigger. I doubt he could survive against Eddie who was a real 175lber with a big punch a great chin and better skills than most anything bob saw.

Doug Jones was good too, I'd like to see a match between him and the glen Johnson that fought Jones and Tarver, imo Johnson would win a competitive decision.

Ron Lipton
10-01-2006, 10:52 AM
"You can think what you want of him. I believe he was a thug who cheated because he lacked the ability to fight otherwise."

Answer: Yes, I will think what I want.

Another hard way to put things as a choice of words?
Ok.

Galento was a dirty fighter, I did not like his behavior especially his crude ways in his interview while sitting next to Joe Louis on "The Way It Was."

I went to an Accident Investigation Course while I was a Verona Police Officer in Orange NJ. Tony Galento Jr was in the course also as he was an Orange NJ cop. I saw his old man all the time and he saw me fight in the NJ GG and train at Sam McGee's Ringside Gym which was behind the Normandy Inn in Orange where Tony Galento hung out all the time.

I have never seen anyone more feared on the street by everyone in the area,
outside of some gangsters I have come across who were stone cold killers with weapons. I promise you that you would be unable to say these words you are typing to his face.

You "trained with" grapplers? Ok. I have a black belt in Judo since I was 20 yrs old, competed in many contests, was a wrestler and had over 140 fights in the ring.

With my limited experience I am telling you that Galento would fight anyone, anytime anyplace and try to rip them to pieces. Both Baer's got him as did Louis but not many men could get into the ring with such people.
Tony was an animal to be sure and yes he was worse than Bummy Davis and Zivic.

He also had iron balls and deserves a bit more respect, just a bit from your keyboard.

You seem to change your tone a bit on Doug Jones, who was one of the most skilled and tough men of his time, not to mention a world class fighter.

It just bothers me a bit not knowing your background, not seeing your picture
like we all posted awhile back so we all know to who we are speaking with.

It is your right not to post it, but after everyone else has in the past, it would be a gesture of some honesty would it not.

Anyway it seems some of the worst attacks on fighters come from brand new "Writers" to the game of boxing, which caused the BWAA to prevent most of them from becoming members, which I do not agree with but it seems like there are guys who grind out boxing articles like sausage with no real research or substance to them and they write for other sites.

Then there are guys who malign fighters from the past without really knowing anything except what they read on them.

They of course can think what they want.

I just like the idea of knowing who I am talking to as do others here.

My ideas of training, conditioning, boxing background are all an open book and are available to see with my pictures past and present as are the work I have done in boxing as a referee and researcher on projects.

All in all I just think they fighters you have previously run down a bit,deserved much more respect in your choice of words Fat Abbot.

Tell us about yourself if you would like and post a picture if you wish too.
It's hard just talking to a keyboard all the time.

I will always be polite if someone is polite to me.

kenmore
10-01-2006, 09:13 PM
In the late '80s I had a summer job at college with a crew of electricians rewiring phones on our campus.

It turned out that one of the electricians, a heavyset middleaged guy from the NYC area, had been an amateur boxer in the late '60s.

This guy -- and I believe him -- said he had over a 100 amateur bouts, including participation in the NY Golden Gloves, and he claimed to have gotten the better of Vito Antuofermo in a smoker when Vito was just starting out.

Then I asked the guy if he ever fought or sparred with Eddie Gregory.

As soon as he heard the name "Eddie Gregory", the guy's entire demeanor changed...he said he never met Gregory in the ring, but had seen him often, simultaneously shaking his head slowly and kind of moaning over and over: "oh, what a bastard....what a son of bitch...that guy could hit...jesus christ...what a son of bitch Gregory was....jesus christ...he could punch..."

Sounds to me like Gregory/Mustafa Muhammad was a legend even from the beginning.

apollack
10-11-2006, 01:13 PM
EMM couldn't even bother to train hard enough to make weight for the rematch with Spinks. What a piece of crap.

10-8
10-11-2006, 02:06 PM
EMM couldn't even bother to train hard enough to make weight for the rematch with Spinks. What a piece of crap.Not quite. Eddie trained for Spinks and monitored his weight. At the weigh-in, Eddie's weight was above 175 lbs on an old Toledo scale which caused a dispute over the accuracy of the scale. Bert Sugar would later test the scale using bags of sugar or flour (I'm going by memory and don't feel like dragging out my Ring back issues) and found that the scale was in fact inaccurate. Hardly makes Eddie a "piece of crap."

apollack
10-14-2006, 11:53 PM
Bags of flour to test a scale???

Gee, somehow Spinks made it.

kenmore
10-15-2006, 02:53 AM
I don't think it's that Mustafa Muhammad wasn't in shape for the July, 1981, Spinks fight...it was more a case of his having to drop 26lbs. in just two months in order to make the lightheavyweight limit.

In May, 1981, at 201lbs., a seemingly bloated Mustafa made an attempt at storming the heavyweight ratings, and lost a 10 round decision to Renaldo Snipes.

Whatever Mustafa's level of preparedness for Spinks, he still gave Spinks one hell of a fight.

apollack
10-15-2006, 10:50 AM
Actually, I was talking about their scheduled rematch, which did not take place as a result of EM not making weight.

As for their first fight, if you can't make weight properly, you shouldn't take the fight. That's unprofessional. I don't think he gave Spinks a hell of a fight at all. It was dull and boring and Spinks won comfortably against a guy who looked to be in there doing little but stinking it out.

10-8
10-15-2006, 11:48 AM
Bags of flour to test a scale???

Gee, somehow Spinks made it. Spinks never had problem making weight as a light-heavyweight and could comfortably make it. He never really outgrew the division, he got the Holmes fight and had to undertake a training regime to get his weight up to heavyweight proportions. The same year that Spinks beat Holmes he weighed 170 lbs against David Sears, 5 pounds under the weight limit.

Now, I'm not defending a fighter who can't make weight but EMM was under the light-heavy limit but the outdated Toldeo scale was proven inaccurate. EMM wanted an accurate scale to prove he was under the limit which he didn't get. If memory serves me corrrect, it was an old scale, the same scale used for a Joe Louis defence, or another fight from that time era.

I'm going to dig out my RING magazine issue and post the events. I'm going on a 24 year memory.

Michael Frank
08-10-2007, 07:08 PM
I think Eddie had incredible defense among his various top-notch skills. But, I think that Foster was too good and too AGGRESSIVE for Eddie, who likes to relax in his fights. Foster has physical advantages over Eddie that will be a problem for him, and he punched as hard or harder than Eddie. Eddie fights better as a destroyer than in a constantly defensive mode, which he'd be in against Foster. Eddie's too good to be KO'd, but I feel he loses a decision.

sr71ko
08-23-2007, 08:56 PM
Michael Spinks was able to outpoint EMM and I believe the Foster was better atleast at lightheavyweight he was, but not at heavyweight. I see Foster winning by decision over EMM, but this fight would be more entertaining than Spinks-EMM.

wolgast
08-23-2007, 10:58 PM
Mustafa was a terrific talent but an under-achiever. if he had the desire to match his skills, he would have been unbeatable.

sr71ko
08-24-2007, 05:43 PM
When I looked at EMM's record I was surprised that he had fought Mattew Saad Muhammad. I know that EMM won a decision, but I don't ever recall seeing this fight on television. Did anyone on this blog see this fight? I would appreciate the first hand witness accounts of this fight. IMO EMM vs. MSM are the things that dream fights are made of. Also, I agree with wolgast, EMM could have been a real monster had he been in better shape.

TKO11
08-24-2007, 08:38 PM
Wolgast - precisely. And since he didn't have that desire, he was anything but unbeatable.