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rocky111
09-26-2005, 01:54 PM
I recently learned that Max Bear couldnt use his right hand in the Louis fight. That he shot it up with novacane the night of the first postponement and on the night of the fight a doctor was present and he couldnt use the same shot of drugs. So basically he went into the ring injured and unable to use his best weapon. Is this true?
I always wondered in viewing the fight, why Baer didnt use that right hand to combat Joes jab. Being that was Maxies best weapon and Joe was there to be nailed by a bigger man, I always wondered why Maxie was so shy to use it. Max certainly had the tools to beat Louis as history shows Max Schmeling was able to do.
Also in the "Cinderella Man" by Jeremy Schaap, he says that Baer had sex in his dressing room before the Braddock bout. Is this true? I always thought the fight was fixed by the way Baer fought. Having sex in the dressing room before a fight is not the way a champ who fights on the level should or would act.
Is any of these two stories true?

Roberto Aqui
09-26-2005, 05:50 PM
I understand Harry Greb used to have sex in his dressing room before a fight. Didn't seem to hurt him much. All depends on the fighter.

Ronald Lipton
09-26-2005, 07:00 PM
In the films of the Louis V Baer fight, it looked like Max tried to slam Louis some clubbing right hands and shortened roundhouse shots, then as you guys know Louis started shooting back between Maxie's hands, raking him with vicious combos.

During this exchange Max spread his legs, dug in and started bombing, but Louis did his inside vicious thing with combos like he did to Tami Mauriello between his hands while warring with him.

Maxie tasted the Brown Bombers thunder and resove when attacked and from that point on did a Swallow job.

The three hooks which finally dusted him off were short, fast, accurate and had some snap on them, a real trilogy of terror minus the Suni Doll and Karen Black.

As to sex before a fight in the dressing room, actually you can have as much as you want if you remember two things.

1. Don't cum and lose all your energy as in Dr. Strangelove's Gneral Turgidson's precious body fluids (See Movie)


2. Remember the famous song, "How can I tell you that I love you, if you are sitting on my face."

Neither thing is too cool before a fight unless you are Harry Greb or Ali.

A Priest and a Rabbi were sitting at ringside while one of the fighters while awaiting the opening bell, kneeled down and crossed himself.

The Rabbi turned to the Priest and said, Father, does that really help?

The Priest turned to the Rabbi, with a knowing grin and said, Yes it does Rabbi, if you can fight.

If you can fight and punch, do what Charlie Green did before he knocked Jose Torees down 3 times in the first round, have two hotdogs and a soda right before they called him into the ring.

Unfortunately no one wanted Charlie to win after Jimmy Ralston got Gardinitis and took a walk. Sooo they draged Chegui by his armpits back to his corner and sent him out.

By now Charlie had the hot dogs barking in his stomach and he was finished anyway.

As to sex, before fights, it ruined Willie Pastrano and many others. Live clean take it seriously or you catch too many shots.

The babes come after the fight.

cyberboxingzone
09-27-2005, 02:14 PM
I am not going to comment on anything in Schaap's book.

Sufficient to say I did not include such a story in my book.

But, I can confirm that Baer had two bad ahnds going into both the Braddock and Louis fights. Baer used to fight exhibitions using 5-oz gloves -- yes five ounce!

He injured his hands badly in his exhibitions with Eddie Simms and Babe Hunt. In the reports leading up to the Braddock fight the reporters wrote about his bad hands, so it was no secret. I also wrote about how Baer "shot himself" and had to spend a couple of days in the hospital or recuperating, whcih may have affcted his training also.

He actually shouted to reporters during the Braddock fight -- my left hand is gone! And later, "my right is gone too!" After the fight, he showed his hands to the newsreels, thinking they were broken. They weren't quite broken, but wre pretty badly swollen and the fact taht he went 15 rounds, swinging as he did all the way, is a credit to his toughness.

His oerformance agaisnt Louis I don't think I need to comment on. But David Margolick goes into that bout in his new book "Beyond Glory."

mike21
09-27-2005, 05:28 PM
on of my favorite fighters, with the hardest right hand in history, and funny as hell. delisas book was excellant and despite the condition of baers hands, they were not broken. as for the louis fight i heard the story, but im sure microfilm study of newspapers could clear this up. just an excuse. he trained very hard for that bout with dempsy having him on a tight leash; but baer for once, just fell apart and believed the superman aura of louis and called it a night. as far as the enie schaaf death- it seems baer did not believe he had anything to do with that as his son recently commented on and ibro ran a story on- he had nothiong to do with it; as far as he was concerned. it made no sense at all to implicte him; and his son said so.thanks

mike21
09-27-2005, 05:31 PM
oh, whats the book beyond glory about? thanks

PeteLeo
09-27-2005, 05:48 PM
Either The Ring or Boxing Illustrated ran a "look-back" article about Louis-Baer that included a recounting of how Baer had to have a shot of painkiller in his badly-bruised right hand just before the match. (I have the magazine somewhere, but I'm not sure which one ran the story.) According to that article, the pain left Max's hand, but he was unable to clinch it properly to make an effective fist. The story also repeats the rumor that Baer was scared spitless and Dempsey had to threaten him to get him to leave the dressing room.
Dempsey-Louis . . . that would have been Nirvana (if a short one). PeteLeo.

thumper3852
09-27-2005, 05:54 PM
Interestingly enough, "The Prizefighter and the Lady" was on Turner Classic Movies last night....Max was a hoot!

sellout r us
09-27-2005, 07:19 PM
Also loved the Dempsey role as the promoter and the ringside intros of Jess Willard, Jim Jeffreys as well as other former boxing champs.

GorDoom
09-27-2005, 07:48 PM
My favorite story about Baer is when he suffered his fatal heart attack in a hotel lobby in I believe the 50's. One of the hotel guys ran up to the fallen Baer & yelled, " Somebody get the house doctor right away!"

Baer opened his eyes & supposedly said," **** the house doctor get me a people doctor!" & then passed away.

The guy had a sense of humor up to & including his dieing breath.

He truly was one of a kind ...

GorDoom

Ronald Lipton
09-27-2005, 09:43 PM
I had never seen the movie the Prizefighter and the Lady with Maxie until last night.

I literally could not believe my eyes as to the priceless historic footage of this movie.

I knew nothing about this gem and I am still on cloud nine from the footage of Dempsey talking with Williard, hearing their voices and seeing them in the same frame talking to each other, the incredible ftg prior (1933) to their 1934 fight of Max Baer fighting Primo Carnera with fight choreography that was interesting to say the least.

To see Billy Papke, Jim Jeffries and all the rest was a mind blower for me.

Also the entire vibe I got from watching Max on camera was of a man who was not a bad soul in anyway even though he was acting. It was there to see if you have the eyes.

Also hearing his voice, which incidentally was so strange to me in comparison to the menacing gravel voice he used in The Harder They Fall was great.

His build in the movie was not awesome to me although he had wide shoulders. Seeing Dempsey in there with them was such a trip, my son kept asking me if Dempsey could really take these guys and I have to say yes.

If Max Baer was 6'3 then Dempsey was 6'1 as he was almost as tall. Primo Carnera was so young and really strong looking too, I wish I knew the back story on this movie, because the coincidence of what really happened in the Baer v Carnera fight is beyond belief when you watch their staged fight in this movie.

The script portends what really happened except is was DA Preem who was going down 11 times instead of Maxie.

Just a great piece of nostalgia I lucked into by channel surfing.

HEGrant
09-27-2005, 10:12 PM
Does anyone have the film on tape ? I've been dying to see it for years and never catch it.

Kid Achilles
09-27-2005, 10:32 PM
I'd like to know the same. I am very interested in seeing this film.

Ronald Lipton
09-27-2005, 11:10 PM
Prior to the staged bout between Primo Carnera and Max Baer, they also introduced Jackie Fields, Joe Rivers, James J. Jeffires, Jess Williard, Billy Papke, and Wrestler Strangler Lewis.

To hear Dempsey say to Jess Williard, "Hi Jess how are you?" Williard says "Fine Jack how are you?", then Dempsey says something, maybe about the heat in the ring not being as bad as Toledo Ohio, and Williard says,"I don't remember anything about that day Jack" and Dempsey laughs. Man it was priceless.

The after the movie James Osborne the host of TCM said that Baer studied all Carnera's moves in the staged fight and that helped him to beat him for real a year later.

He also said Carnera the reigning Champ in 1933 refused to have the movie script show him losing a decision to Baer. So they paid him an additional $35K to have it rendered a draw.

Unbelievable stuff.

Kid Achilles
09-28-2005, 02:27 AM
Do you have any idea why Baer never had much of a career in Hollywood after the film? I would imagine the demand for him would have been there, with all the male boxing fans and female moviegoers.

I've always heard he was charming in the role and had a lot presence.

PD99
09-28-2005, 11:45 AM
Another nice touch in the film - ref Dempsey advises both Carnera and Baer not to forget about retiring to a neutral corner in the event of a knock down. With that, Jack then gives a sly wink.

thomasrhall
09-28-2005, 08:13 PM
Does anyone know who the ring announcer was for the Carnera/Baer match in the movie? If I'm not mistaken, he was also the ring announcer for the Corbett/Sullivan match in "Gentleman Jim". "imdb.com" doesn't seem to list his name. I'm wondering if he really was a master of ceremonies for old time boxing matches and was brought in to lend some authenticity to the films. He has a very unique voice and mannerisms.

I was also wondering who the "giant" (248 lbs) was that Baer fought in the his first bout of the film. Maybe just some unknown big guy (seemed a little bit like Abe Simon).

Ronald Lipton
09-28-2005, 09:52 PM
Thommarshal,

that was very astute of you Sir,

I agree that was the same man in Gentleman Jim and yes indeed he did have a very distinct delivery.

I also got quite a kick out of Dempsey talking about going to a neutral corner. Isn't that the greatest tape ever for nostalgia footage.

What a treasure to have.

HEGrant
09-28-2005, 10:39 PM
Ron: Your making me drool over this tape...I'm going to have to go overboard somehow and buy it.

sellout r us
09-28-2005, 10:56 PM
Go here to get it on DVD.You need to voice your opinion if you want it on DVD.

www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005JLER/104-7370781-0032754?v=glance (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005JLER/104-7370781-0032754?v=glance)www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005JLER/104-7370781-0032754?v=glance (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005JLER/104-7370781-0032754?v=glance)

Ronald Lipton
09-28-2005, 10:57 PM
HeGrant,

what's mine is yours in boxing good buddy.

I only taped portions of the movie in two rooms here and I do not have the whole thing, BUT, I do have the great stuff from the flick.

E-mail me at blkleopard21@aol.com and I will make you up what I have and send it to you to enjoy pal. My pleasure.

best always,

Ron

sellout r us
09-28-2005, 11:31 PM
Here is a letter I sent TCM recently.

Apparently many boxing historians were not aware that this little nugget which is of value to the boxing community was shown the other night. This movie contains so much historical boxing figures that it is a much sought out movie. It's a treasure that contains so much valued footage that I ask TCM Programmer to please reschedule this move ASAP. In addition I think ESPN Classic would be a fine outlet to show this film.
here is a boxing message board that is frothing at the mouth to see this little gem.

http://p068.ezboard.com/fcyberboxingzonefrm3.showMessage?topicID=1702.topi c

PD99
09-30-2005, 07:56 AM
Probably just me but I always found the similarities between Baer and Flynn interesting. Both tall, handsome, well built, athletic, larger than life, devil may care party animals and HUGE hits with the ladies. Baer the boxer, dabbled in acting. Flynn the actor, dabbled in boxing. I let you guys decide if Baer was a better boxer than Flynn was an actor (or visa versa).:D Lastly, both guys were born in 1909, both dying of heart attacks in 1959 at only 50 yrs of age.

StingerKarl
09-30-2005, 12:33 PM
I loved the nicknames tough Maxie used-"Hey Uncle! Shorty! Pops!"
My favorite line was "Oh, I used to work in Australia throwing the bums out of bars".
Another of my favorites is: "The Life of Jimmy Dolan" starring Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. and Loretta Young with a 5 or 6 year old Mickey Rooney as one of the orphan kids and a very young pre-fame John Wayne as one of the fighters.
Also: Max wore the robe he used in the movie with "Steve Morgan" emblazoned on the back of it in the title fight with Carnera to further psyche him out, and he also wore it against Braddock.
Robert Osborne, the host of TCM, said the movie was a modest financial success and that moviegoers liked Maxie but not enough to catapult him into a major motion picture star-athough he became a minor movie and tv star.
Karl

HEGrant
10-01-2005, 10:54 AM
Ron,

Just saw your post. Thank you, very kind. I'm doing a crazy bid on ebay for it. If I win it I'll make copies and give to all who want for X-Mas presents early...

mike21
10-03-2005, 04:43 PM
i would love to own the dvd as well as see the film with all those greats in clearer footage with some of them talking. hopefull unless already it will be available.eyes

PD99
10-04-2005, 12:45 PM
I would guess that most ppl have seen the clip of Dempsey visiting Max in training for, I think, the Schmeling fight. If not that, it was for Carnera. The Mauler still looks fit and ready to go. Baer laughingly tells Jack that his "female intuition" tells him that he's going to win.
At another point in the clip, an announcer goes through Max's vital stats, such as chest, biceps and reach. The announcer rounds the stats off with the subjective category of looks, by offering up the question - "Handsome"?. Girls, you guess". With that, Baer lets go with one of his signature belly laughs. Great stuff.

rocky111
10-04-2005, 03:59 PM
Another cool movie is "Big City" with Spencer Tracy. It has Dempsey, George Godfrey, Jimmy McClarnin and JIM JEFFRIES of all people beating up a bunch of gangsters. Great stuff. Dempsey throwing the short hook is one for the books.

mike21
10-04-2005, 05:07 PM
boy, id love to see that one to. another boxing classic.

Kid Achilles
10-04-2005, 10:44 PM
Someone needs to just compile all of this old footage together, and clips from talk shows where fighters were guests. Why not old TV commercials featuring heavyweight champions (I guess the most recent being the Lennox Lewis one where he and his opponent sit down for tea?) while we're at it? It'd make a great DVD I think.

PD99
10-05-2005, 12:08 AM
Wow! Thanks for the heads up on Big City. I checked my dvd/video guide but it isn't listed. Has this film also been shown on TCM at any stage so I know to keep an eye out for it in future? For anyone interested, Tracy Callis' doc on Jeffries contains some rare training footage in the early 1900s & sound footage of Jeffries training and speaking with one of his fighters in the early thirties.

Kid Achilles
10-05-2005, 12:44 AM
How do I get ahold of that documentary? Jim Jeffries is one of my favorite fighters of that era!

PD99
10-06-2005, 02:56 AM
Kid - I can't put my hands on the email address for IBRO's Tracy Callis right at this moment. The operators of the CBZ provided me with the address in the first place. So, if any of you guys happen to be reading this, could you please post Tracy's address on this thread?

rocky111
10-07-2005, 03:52 PM
"Big City" is shown quite often on TCM. It stars Tracy and Louise Rainer. Its a good flick. They are having a testimonial at Dempseys restaurant when a guy comes in and says gangsters are beating up on Cabbies. So Dempsey and the boys come to the rescue. George Godfrey is a scream in this one. Hes got appeal. Stranger Lewis and Gus Sonnenburg are in this one too. You get a chance to see the fast hands of Jimmy McClarnin too. Im telling you this one is great for the old time boxing fan. Dont miss it.

PD99
10-08-2005, 08:45 AM
Thanks Rock.

StingerKarl
10-08-2005, 09:51 PM
Good, not great boxing movie.
I think the acting was superb, however.
See; back then folks didn't really know what they were doing with film as far as editing boxing sequences goes.
Karl

Chuck1052
10-09-2005, 11:30 PM
In the PRIZEFIGHTER AND THE LADY, Dan Tobey,
the regular ring announcer in L.A. area at time,
had a cameo.

- Chuck Johnston

kikibalt
10-09-2005, 11:38 PM
Chuck
As a every young kid i remember Dan Tobey
he was one of a kind

Frank B.

GorDoom
03-31-2006, 09:57 PM
Bump.

Mike DeLisa
04-01-2006, 10:54 AM
Re BAer's hands -- he had hurt them both in an exhibition against Eddie Simms -- both hands went bad during the Braddock fight -- at one point he shouted at the sportswriters "my left hand is gone" then a round or two later -- "my right hand has gone bad too!"

Max toughed it out -- just wathc the 15th round agasint Braddock. In the newsreels the following day he showed off his bruised (not broken) hands.

I suspect his hands were not heled by the time he fought Louis.