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View Full Version : Byrd-klit Results & Discussion 4/22/06



GorDoom
04-22-2006, 09:48 AM
I believe Mad Dog is gonna cover this bout for us. So, per usual please keep all discussion of this bnout to this thread. Redundant threads will be deleted.

thanks,

GorDoom

diggity
04-22-2006, 12:24 PM
um Daddymofo??
I know, you have a lot of miles my friend.
;)

gregbeyer
04-22-2006, 02:05 PM
the bucket told me this fight is going off at 2 pm here on the westcoast. we'll see how my afternoon goes as this is not a bout i am going to miss anything for. i will probably find time to watch tho i expect to be disapointed.

i heard byrd has stated he is going right after wlad this time which leads me to wonder ...with what? perhaps he is hoping to get wlads workrate up early in an effort to gas him out.

i have no idea why but i have the feeling wlad is going to stop chris today.

greg

GorDoom
04-22-2006, 02:42 PM
Even more miles that you realise, Dig ... The synapses don't snap back the way they used to ... Sorry Mad Dog/ Daddy Mo' Fo'


GorDoom

gregbeyer
04-22-2006, 03:48 PM
snap?

greg

GorDoom
04-22-2006, 04:16 PM
How about, stumble? That's probably a little more honest ...

GorDoom

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 05:03 PM
Hey Everyone,
I'm here, I'm ready, and I'll get started once the fight does.

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 05:20 PM
Well, the national anthems were played a quartet of strings, very nice, but a little mellow for a boxing match I would think. Miachael Buffer bust out some German, haha, sounds funny. More German from Buffer, what a rip. Klit looks kinda dry, I wonder how warmed up he is. Here we go.

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 05:24 PM
Round 1- Both fighters paw at each other and look like 2 girls slapping each others hand. Id give the round to Bryd maybe because he threw a few more, if you could even call them punches.

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 05:28 PM
Round2-Kilt lands a right, and he's keeping his left arm extended out like a kid would do to his little brother, keeping Byrd outside. Byrd cant come inside, and his wife if trying to yell him instructions. I give it to Klit.

GorDoom
04-22-2006, 05:28 PM
I agree with your assesment about the pawing but I thought Byrd landed enough body shots & jabs to maybe take the 1st.

GorDoom

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 05:32 PM
Round 3-Bryd just can't hang with Klits size. Every time he comes inside, Klit ties him up and puts his weight on him. When Byrd stands outside, he's eating some jabs and straight rights. Klit lands a few rights and a left close to the end of the round, wins the round easily. Byrds right eye may be swelling a little.

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 05:32 PM
I agree bucket. 2,3 to Klit.

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 05:36 PM
round 4-Klit is landing the rights, more of the same as in the third. Klit keeps putting his wight on Byrd everytime Byrd tries to come at him. Byrd is clearly becoming frustrated. He has no answer to Klit.

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 05:37 PM
Round 5-Klit knocks him down!

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 05:40 PM
5- Klit is throwing the sink at him, Byrd trying to recover and let Klit punch himself out. Byrd looks in a bad way, hes still all there but not throwing anything. I think Klit may have broke his nose. Nice work by Klit, Im suprised Byrd is as fine as he is, but he has NO answer. Byrd better be carefull, he got warned by the ref for not throwing anything.

Kid Achilles
04-22-2006, 05:40 PM
Was it a big punch? How hurt was he?

GorDoom
04-22-2006, 05:43 PM
He's okay. & if Byrd makes it out of this round after Klit's KD & barrage in the previous, doubt may enter Klit's mind.

GD

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 05:43 PM
Round 6-Klit is toying with him to start the round....Wlad is fighting w/ a ton of confidence, Byrd cannot touch him...killing Byrd w/ the jab. You can see Sterward's influence w/ Klit as the fight wears on. Round is easily to Klit, looks like he has plenty of gas.

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 05:45 PM
another knockdown!

GorDoom
04-22-2006, 05:45 PM
What I don't understand is why Klit doesn't just let his hands go & put Byrd away? It's not like he has to worry about Byrd hurting him, one would think.

GD

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 05:45 PM
Fight is over! Byrd's face is roadkill!

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 05:46 PM
Ref stopped the fight, is officially a TKO. I think the ref saw a ton of blood on Byrd and had seen enough.

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 05:49 PM
What I don't understand is why Klit doesn't just let his hands go & put Byrd away? It's not like he has to worry about Byrd hurting him, one would think.

GD

I think Klit is aware of his stamina issues and is afraid to punch himself out, you saw it at the end of the Peter fight when he wobbled him in the 12th. And after the 7th, I think he was just maintaing his patience knowing he'd finish him off.

GorDoom
04-22-2006, 05:54 PM
You are most likely correct. But what kind of great champion worries about his stamina in his late 20's to now, when he is 30?

I fear that the front runners are now going to start proclaiming Lil' Klit as the heavyweight saviour. Bandwagons are easy to jump on ... But reality is a bitch.

GorDoom

kikibalt
04-22-2006, 05:57 PM
It seem to me like the ref. was looking out for Byrd, or was I just seeing things?

Frank B.

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 06:01 PM
I think its more about knowing your limitations. I have a lot of respect for the fact that he has picked himself up after the sanders-brewster debacles and learned to fight smarter w/ in his limitations. Steward in his corner is just huge, huge, huge. I know he's no great, but he's young, and he has talent. Despite his limitations at least we are watching a technically sound heavyweight who is conditioned and takes his career seriously. After watching all these guys lately coming in overweight, its a little refreshing anyway. I'm going to do a follow up piece on the fight bucket, and I'll forward it to Dig.

GorDoom
04-22-2006, 06:02 PM
Absolutely Mr. B. But ... if you think about it he was just doing his job. You gotta worry about an over stuffed maybe Lt. heavy against Klit. Especially considering that Byrd is 35, has slowed a full step & can't break an egg with his punches ...


GorDoom

Walker Smith
04-22-2006, 06:07 PM
I never liked either of the Klitschko's and used to get a kick out of the Dr. Z days when he was comparing them to all-time great heavies and after W. Klit was exposed, started trying to use the Tommy Hearns angle. Even so, watching him pummel Chris Byrd, I realized that even though Wlad is not a great fighter, if the general public thinks he's a great fighter, then it is for the best. Not to mention, Klitschko makes for good exciting fights. That's the key. He's no Lennox Lewis (and he never will be), but if he can unify the titles, then his career will be a success and ultimately make boxing a better sport. I actually see W. Klitschko having the potential to be a more popular heavyweight champion than Lewis, though clearly not better.

GorDoom
04-22-2006, 06:09 PM
Daddy:

I want to thank you once again for stepping up to the plate & doing the report. Much Appreciated! ... Though I know this friggin' fight didn't give you much to work with.

thanks again,

GorDoom

Kid Achilles
04-22-2006, 06:10 PM
I agree Walker. Wlad is very marketable and unlike Byrd who squeaked by with close decisions, he'll either win convincingly or lose via KO. Has he ever been outboxed for an entire fight in his whole career?

daddymofo
04-22-2006, 06:12 PM
Hey bucket, its my pleasure, Im looking foward to my next assignment!

dnahar
04-22-2006, 06:48 PM
I hope Chris Byrd retires after this nonperformance. It was frustrating to watch him in the ring. He didn't try to do anything and apparently was just there for the payday. His wife seemed more animated than him, after hearing her yell instructions at Byrd throughout the fight and in-between rounds. He keeps talking about these "big boys" in the division and if he feels he can't compete (and he hasn't had even a good performance since the Holyfield fight), he should step aside.

Deepak

Kid Achilles
04-22-2006, 06:51 PM
Bucket,

I think you're a little hard on Wladimir who IMO is clearly the best and most talented heavyweight around, glass chin or not. Byrd is one of the top ranked, most winningest heavyweights in the last few years and he just suffered the worst defeat in his career since...the last time he tried to fight Wladimir.

The heavyweights may be awful but we have to at least acknowledge that Wladimir battered around and completely destroyed the man most recognize in the #1 spot. He says he's going to unify the titles now and I really think he's the guy to do it.

GorDoom
04-22-2006, 07:00 PM
[QUOTE=Kid Achilles]I agree Walker. Wlad is very marketable and unlike Byrd who squeaked by with close decisions, he'll either win convincingly or lose via KO. Has he ever been outboxed for an entire fight in his whole career?


Here we go again ... No he's never been out boxed. But he's many times been out gutted & more than once he's been a girlie man.

& since when has been being mass marketable had anything to do with a man's fighting abilities?

I give up ... Wlad Klit is Jesus on roller blades & is gonna not only save boxing but become President Shrub's advisor (He does have a doctorate in P.E. mind you) & extricate us from the Middle East problems which at this point look bound to destroy us.

Not only is he a great Ukranian/German but he's also as American as apple pie & political bullshit ...

Dempsey, Louis, Rock, Ali, Larry & Leg-Iron Mike, move over, you've been replaced by the blindingly fish-belly white, glory, that is Wlad "Lil'" Klit' Klitschko.

Oy, fucking, vey ...

GorDoom

Roberto Aqui
04-22-2006, 07:06 PM
Wlad apparently just blew out arguably the best heavy since the 2 years before Lewis retired and in his previous bout Wlad beat the biggest strongest, most powerful monster in the division. Let's face it, he could KO a prime Ali and there will always be a certain segment that will never give him any credit.

ShawnTheBleeder
04-22-2006, 07:56 PM
Hey, let's give Wlad kudos. Byrd has been one of my favorite heavyweights over the last 8 years, which may account for his lack of popularity.
Regardless, Wlad looked as good as Wlad can look tonight, and put Toney, Rahman, Guinn, and Harrison to shame by comparison. On top of his win over Peter, the last great heavyweight hope, he's the only guy with momentum in the division outside of The White Wolf, Liahovich (I know I murderered his name).
Heavyweight boxing, and boxing in general, is what have you done for me lately. And tonight Wlad delivered the goods. Sure, Chris didn't punch back, but as much of that has to do with what Lil Klit was bringing to the dance.
Shawn

ShawnTheBleeder
04-22-2006, 07:57 PM
By the way, I was just as sarcastic as Roberto when I called Peter a "great heavyweight hope".
So don't murder me the way I murdered Sergei's last name.
Shawn

Chuck1052
04-22-2006, 07:59 PM
It seems that Chris Byrd had trouble blocking and slipping punches
in his bout with W. Klits, a huge problem when one has very little
punching power and is facing a much bigger fighter with some
boxing skills, athletic ability, and power. Of course, Byrd had
to hope that W. Klits wore down as the bout went on, but that
didn't happen.

- Chuck Johnston

StingerKarl
04-22-2006, 08:18 PM
Byrd got his ass kicked big time, but he took it like a man.
Manny did a great job preparing Wlad, who never breathed hard at all, even after he was throwing a lot of shots after the first knockdwon.
I admire the way Chris handled himself in the post fight interview, as he seems like a good family man who was just beaten up by a bigger, better, and stronger fighter today.
Every time Chris dipped his torso to the left it seemed he was cracked a right by Wlad, and half of them were winging rights not thrown straight.
A real wipeout for Chris.
Manny mentioned Calvin Brock as a next fight possibility, and that could be very interesting.
Karl

HE Grant
04-22-2006, 08:51 PM
Let's give Jr. the credit he deserves..he has climbed back from two tough KO losses that would have discouraged lesser fighters to win a piece of a world title...he remains an extremely talented offensive fighter who is very smart, smart enough to know his chin will always be a weakness he must compensate for and that his stamina must be parcelled in an intelligent manner. He did that perfect today. It would have been easy to swing like crazy against the elusive Byrd. However, knowing he could punch himself out , he picked his spots and easily won the fight.

I will be interested to see who he fights next..I would like to see him take on Brewster to see if he can take him in a rematch.

Byrd should pack it in although I'm sure he will not. He has been a very courageous fighter and will never get the credit he should.

Juan C Ayllon
04-22-2006, 09:23 PM
Let's face it, he could KO a prime Ali and there will always be a certain segment that will never give him any credit.

--Roberto Aqui

I hope you were being sarcastic. Sure, Klitschko hits hard, but I doubt his clout rates up there with Ernie Shaver's punch, which a past-prime Ali withstood.

As for Byrd, I hope he moves on, maybe works as a boxing trainer or goes into a ministry of some sort.

By the way, I believe his sister retired after losing recently, too.

Regards,



Juan C. Ayllon

Kurant
04-22-2006, 09:38 PM
Here we go again ... No he's never been out boxed. But he's many times been out gutted & more than once he's been a girlie man.

& since when has been being mass marketable had anything to do with a man's fighting abilities?
GorDoom


You know - Lennox didn't have a chin either, but Manny made him what he was by fighting smart like the bigger man should. Klit is technically sound, and Manny has him in great shape, and fighting smart, just like Lennox. Question his heart, but then when does heart have anything to do with his ability to fight.

In the shape he's in right now, you won't find one heavyweight who will beat Klit without knocking him out.. Period. It was that way before, it's that way right now. There is no bandwagon.

Thats the reality of it.. Hate him or not.

So get used to it.

diggity
04-22-2006, 09:50 PM
Wlad looked great as I expected him to but there was not much drama since was Byrd showed the first time stylistically there was not much hope for him. Amazing to me that Byrd made literally no adjustments other than move his head less and get hit more. Byrd has been competive with so many boxers but he just cannot deal with Wlad's pawing jab style. Byrd himself relies on a similar style as he usually paws forward as he picks his spots but Wlad has an accurate and powerful arsenal behind his. Since Wlad does not fight on the inside & is typically good at keeping his opponents outside is another factor which makes Byrd unable to do anything with him. I'm sure now that Lennox would have done the same exact thing to Byrd had they fought.

Kurant
04-22-2006, 10:41 PM
Personally, I'm glad Klit looked so good.

I wanna see him shut all the nay-sayers and skeptics up.

I thought the way he was tore down and destroyed through media, and boxing fans was just absurd.

I'm happy to see him whoop a guys ass, who frankly hasen't done anything.

Kid Achilles
04-22-2006, 11:06 PM
Agreed Kurant. Guys like Toney and Byrd with their close (or gift) decisions and controversial wins are not what the sport needs. The division needs a skilled boxer puncher who can put guys away and not leave things up for the judges to decide.

Boxing is going to continue to go downhill until the heavyweight division can sort itself out. All the Pacquaio's, Mayweather's, and Calzaghe's in the world don't amount to the popularity a single marketable, dominant heavyweight would bring to the sport. Like it or not, heavyweight is the premiere division of the sport.

Roberto Aqui
04-23-2006, 12:10 AM
I hope you were being sarcastic. Sure, Klitschko hits hard, but I doubt his clout rates up there with Ernie Shaver's punch, which a past-prime Ali withstood.


I was being realistic. No matter what Wlad does, just like Lewis, there will be a segment of the boxing public calling him a sissy, a robotic euro, glass chin, whatever. Wlad is a damn sight better than Shavers and presents a stylistic matchup nightmare for any boxer in history.

My impressions of the fight was that Manny is getting him to think in the ring. I've never seen that pawing jab of his before, but then I realized he was out negating a negative fighter, Byrd, from the start, letting him know he couldn't play his tricks.

2nd, Wlad is not the killer finisher. He tried in the 5th, but doesn't have that instinctual free style of a Dempsey or Tyson. His KOs come from attrition since he seldom goes for broke on a punch, just a steady 240 lb rain.

3rd, he's also a bit of a head hunter like Ali was, and damn accurate and speedy too.

4th, Byrd has never been treated so badly in the ring before, ever. Credit the gameplan and discipline Wlad showed.

5th, save the slow 1st round, this fight was much like the Brewster fight save Wlad going into diabetic shock after 4 rounds and the nasty cut on Byrd. I've told you boys that Wlad's stamina has been proven, not that this fight represents any pinnacle for him.

Finally, I know Byrd wanted to be aggressive and keep the pressure on Wlad ala Brewster, but I have to wonder what would happen had he used more elusive footwork and forced Wlad to chase him.

As an addendum, I've always considered Byrd better than Toney. Byrd at least has some footwork that allows him to attack. Toney is nothing but blubbered up punching bag. Save a big KO punch, every heavy is going to be out classed and outpunched by Wlad for now. I see him retiring in 3 yrs at age 33 with 55 wins in the bank. I hope he gives Brock a shot and skips King's mess for now. Brock, then Rahman.

apollack
04-23-2006, 01:18 AM
Last time a guy beat the best puncher and best boxer in the division, we were talking about Ike Ibeabuchi, the biggest waste of talent in heavyweight history. He ko'd Byrd and won a decision over Tua.

Now Vlad ko'd Byrd and won a decision over Sam Peter, who ironically is a Nigerian, like Ibeabuchi I think. Vlad can punch, is entertaining, and has beaten the best pure boxer and best puncher in the division today. Brewster was the only guy who could have stood in his way as the champ, but he just lost.

But there will still be doubters. Thus, I'd like Vlad to take on Lyakovich, Rahman, and Toney, and I think then no one can question is right to reign supreme.

As far as I"m concerned, he's the best heavyweight in the division right now.

Kurant
04-23-2006, 01:39 AM
He'd destroy Toney if Toney came into any fight with Klit in the same shape he was with Rahman. Toney is nothing, and will continue to be nothing except a Dunkin Doughtnuts refugee until he rededicates himself to the sport. But, it's too late in his career for that. Frankly, he's a shot fighter. Tons of talent, and probably could challenge for any title he wants. But he's just too fat.

As for Rahman, sure he's big. But when has Rahman stepped up ever and took on any real talent? Not that there is much in the HW division, but he lost to Ruiz for christ sake. Rahman is not going to touch Wlad. Ever. Rahman IMO just isn't any good. Prove me wrong, please.

As for Lyakovich, well. That's another story. Obviously, it was said. For political reasons, the fight probably won't ever come off.

Wlad will never get the credit he deserves, and has earned. He's worked his ass off to get back to where he was. He was the next big thing, now in this weak division, and his brother gone. He IS the big thing. His confidence is WAY up. I think a re-match with Brewster would really get that monkey off his back. That Sam Peter fight did him wonders.

Wlad is the best fighter in this division skill wise and with Manny in his corner, clearly his boxing IQ has gone WAY up. You can question his chin, but if you can't hit him. What difference does it make? Lennox spent an entire career with a weak chin that even Tyson could not expose. What makes you think Wlad with Manny in his corner is ever going to be any different? Not to mention, what I think Manny said tonight, was pretty true. Wlad could take the belts, and with this sorry crop of Heavyweights we have today, he could hold those belts for quite some time. No one will ever out box him, the only option is to knock him out.

hagler04
04-23-2006, 02:00 AM
Sorry, I was not impressed. Wlad lacks balls. Give me a break. Holding Byrd every time he got within 15 inches of him, esp. in rds 2 and 3, was just atrocious. Kelly should have taken a point away in the 3rd. Vs a guy with no punch. Throw some punches on the inside you big sissy. I don't see Wlad becoming an attraction in the States. How are people gonna back a guy who holds on everytime someone gets within a fraction of the inside? Even Lennox was never that bad-he had the uppercut.
We knew Wlad could fire nice straight punches. What else is new??? Byrd didn't move his head enough, and clearly could not hit Wlad hard enough to bother him. You cannot walk a bigger man down without moving side to side and having something to deter him from throwing punches. Seems pretty basic but Byrd did what he's done for the past 15 years and played the pawing game, which won't work with a guy with a big straight right hand.

I still say Rahman, with all his limitations, knocks Klitschko out, as does Lyakovich.

gregbeyer
04-23-2006, 04:45 AM
wlad beat a 35 yr old feather fisted lighteavyweight and now he is of the stature to KO A PRIME ALI .... realistc? DELUSIONAL !
greg

HE Grant
04-23-2006, 07:14 AM
Two ridiculous statements:

1. Byrd did not try and was only there for a payday. What a dumb statement. Look at the punishment the man took. He did not have to get up at all after the fifth round shot. He did the best he could . It was a stylistic nightmare for him. He gave it his all.

2. Jr. has been outgutted and fought like a girlie man. Girlie men do not keep getting up after getting blasted with pulverizing right hand shots from 235 pound men. They stay down after the first time. He showed big heart getting off the canvas and beating Peters. He punched himself out against Brewster but fell on his face in exhaustion before he would quit. Give it up Gor. You have a hard on for both him and his brother and have never been fair or rational in your comments on them.

Jr. is extremely talented and clearly flawed. Some nights he will look great, others he won't...however, he always comes in the best shape possible for him and he gives his all.

dnahar
04-23-2006, 09:00 AM
Two ridiculous statements:

1. Byrd did not try and was only there for a payday. What a dumb statement. Look at the punishment the man took. He did not have to get up at all after the fifth round shot. He did the best he could . It was a stylistic nightmare for him. He gave it his all.


I posted that and I stand by it. I don't question Byrd's courage at all. He did take a lot of punishment. But instead of trying to fight back, he went into a shell and took more and more punches. Those are not the actions of a man trying to win. How many punches did he land in the fight? Did he even try to throw power shots? A good parallel here is the Ibeabuchi fight in which Byrd did make a fight of it before he was knocked out.

In the preamble to this fight, Byrd mentioned how he had to be aggressive and jump on Klitschko. With Klitschko's chin being a perceived point of weakness before the fight, Byrd knew he had to be more aggressive and yet he showed no aggression from the first bell onwards.

If Byrd didn't think he could solve the "stylistic nightmare" of Klitschko, he shouldn't have taken the fight. Considering he did take the fight, there was no plan and no adjustments in there and it was a total nonperformance.

Deepak

robertk
04-23-2006, 09:33 AM
There really aren't very many heavyweight gamblers and the Byrdman sure isn't one himself. Then again, what recent heavies are?

Do you think byrd should try an uppercut from the outside or something and simply hope it lands? Or step in behind a straight left with a follow thru of 1 or 2 steps?


I thought it was very interesting when byrd went back to the corner after the fifth round and was yelling at his father about what punch had dropped him. He never saw or possibly got a mini concussionof sorts when he got dropped.

The bout pretty much mirrored rounds 6-12 of their first bout and the byrdmans defensive style of upper body leaning does not get him out of theway of klitschko punches the way it does with other opponents.

I really liked the 7th round by klitschko and man, was he accurate once he got byrd stung and backing up. I'm not sure he missed a punch and it's no easy feat to land combos on chris byrd.

Roberto Aqui
04-23-2006, 10:17 AM
I posted that and I stand by it. I don't question Byrd's courage at all. He did take a lot of punishment. But instead of trying to fight back, he went into a shell and took more and more punches. Those are not the actions of a man trying to win. How many punches did he land in the fight? Did he even try to throw power shots? A good parallel here is the Ibeabuchi fight in which Byrd did make a fight of it before he was knocked out.

Well, your dead wrong and mixed up to boot.

Byrd did try to make a fight of it. Watch the fight. He sometimes has Wlad backing up and leaps in with various shots. He did land some body shots, but mostly missed the head shots and was immediately tied up.

Ike ain't Wlad. He was slower with less reach and had a different style that Byrd could exploit and make things happen. Byrd couldn't land effectively and get within a consistent range of attack last night because of Wlad's offensive arsenal, footwork, and clinching. Another poster commented that Byrd probably had a mild concussion after the 5th KD. Probably true as he was in horrible shape from 5-7. His best rounds were 1-4 and still he couldn't implement any significant offense while being picked apart. He just met a better fighter on top of his game who has much better natural attributes. It happens all the time.


Chris Byrd is one of the toughest heavies ever and very underrated. I hope this fight represents security so he can find a soft place to land. He can still make the Toney fight and pound out his pound of blubber and retire.

daddymofo
04-23-2006, 10:43 AM
I posted that and I stand by it. I don't question Byrd's courage at all. He did take a lot of punishment. But instead of trying to fight back, he went into a shell and took more and more punches. Those are not the actions of a man trying to win. How many punches did he land in the fight? Did he even try to throw power shots?

Deepak

Byrd COULD NOT fight back. His beating was so complete there was simply NOTHING he could do. Not the actions of a man trying to win? Power shots? He couldn't even TOUCH Klit. To imply that this beatdown had more to do w/ Byrd not fighting as hard as he could or primarily for the money is a slight to both men; one who has the heart of champion winning titles as an undersized agaisnt all odss, and the other who dominated his opponant completely and totally. Is Klit the be all and the end all? Of course not. But give some credit where it is due; lest we all forget this was a championship fight with the fighter many reconized as the number 1 heavy?

HE Grant
04-23-2006, 10:44 AM
Dnahar: The guy tried to the best of his ability. He simply could not beat Jr. As far as not fight him, this is a busines and the fight afforded him a chance at revenge as well as a hell of a payday.

Byrd is and has always been a highly underated fighter. I also hope he socked plenty of dollars away.

dnahar
04-23-2006, 11:28 AM
After the first 2 rounds, Vlad took over and won going away. My problem with Chris were all the macho gestures he made to Vlad to come in without throwing any punches back at Klitschko. While Klitschko was quite good, Byrd just did not throw enough to even make Klitschko think about taking a step back or breaking his rhythm. Byrd is known as a defensive fighter, but his ring movement was poor. I probably took it too far in saying he was only there for the paycheck, but clearly he wasn't trying to be the aggressive fighter he hinted he'd be and needed to be to have a chance to win.

I don't think Byrd is an underrated fighter. Ring Magazine has him at #1 in their ranking of heavyweights before this fight and he has been in the Top 5 for many years. If Byrd stayed at a more natural weight and performed better, then I could see it. But he made the choice to go to heavyweight, and the performances against both Klitschkos, Ibeabuchi, McCline, Oquendo, and Golota were not impressive but either losses or debatable decisions either way (Vitali being way ahead before hurting his shoulder). Now if Byrd could come down to cruiserweight (at 200lbs) and fight O'Neil Bell or the Jones-Cunningham winner that would be a good fight. I don't see Byrd beating any legit heavyweights.

Deepak

TKO Tom
04-23-2006, 01:25 PM
Well, I was impressed with Wlad Klitschko. He's improving and he fought a controlled and relaxed fight yesterday. He wasn't all tense and nervous and he didn't go in there and punch himself out. Granted, you have to keep in mind the opposition.

Klitschko's problem is that larger heavyweights who pressure him and want to fight on the inside will always trouble him. Wlad has no infighting ability at all. No inside hooks at all. He didn't throw a bodyshot in that entire fight with Byrd. Wlad is just a one-two guy. Take away that and he's got nothing. The way to beat him is in close because he if he can keep that distance on you it's over.

I think he'd have no problem with Hasim Rahman or James Toney. Toney is too small and light punching, not to mention out of shape. Rahman gets hit too much and he wouldn't take Klitschko's punches any better than Byrd did yesterday. I don't see any problem with Valuev. Brewster and Liakovich would be riskier fights for Wlad, especially Liakovich.

Wlad has youth on his side. At 29-30 and with his new confidence he could get much better. Manny Steward is also doing some fine work with him if you asked me. The more time they spend together the better Wlad will become.

Sam Peter and Chris Byrd aren't slouches, no matter what you want to say about Klitschko.

hagler04
04-23-2006, 01:53 PM
Rahman knocks Klitschko out. Wlad will be very cautious and troubled by a guy who can answer his jab with his own, plus we all know Hasim's right hand is gonna put Wlad on the canvas. Klitschko has a puncher's chance b/c of Rahman's poor defense and questionable chin but I still see Hasim lasting rounds and ending Klitschko's reign with a big right hand. And I am no Hasim Rahman fan. He does present a much tougher matchup for Klit than Peter did, who's stamina, jab, and experience are not even in the same league as Hasim.

diggity
04-23-2006, 02:45 PM
The myth that is Rahman is beyond puzzling to me. Despite Wlad's faults, I think he would beat Rahman relatively easy. I expect Rahman to have a lot of problems with Wlad's height and overall in a battle of jabs and right hands, Wlad wins. Rahman has a right hand but he misses often with it, Wlad does not. Rahman is even more of a one trick pony than Wlad is with half the talent.

Brewster & Liahkovich will pose problems becuase they are explosive on the inside and can take the abuse needed to get there and do some work. Wlad will have to keep them outside and tie them up when he can't (which is all he does now). Rahman tends to become more timid when things don't go his way which falls right into Wlad's hands.

Though Wlad does not punch to the body and does not throw an single punch from underneath, his accuracy and speed of the punches he does use are enough to keep him on the upper end of things.

HE Grant
04-23-2006, 03:50 PM
I would like to see Jr. fight Rachman. It would be a very interesting fight . I am completely unimpressed with Rachman. To me he has a few big wins (Lewis, Tua 2 and Saunders) and a lot of disappointments. A Rachman fight and a Brewster rematch are two big fights I'd like to see Jr. take on. If he can beat those two guys it would go a long way towards establishing his legitimacy.

ShawnTheBleeder
04-23-2006, 05:06 PM
I was so ready for Big Klit to mash Rahman. The only good thing about Rahman was his activity, which got him back in shape. Now that he's on top –*smirk– he won't fight as often and he'll be doughy by Summer 07.

Lil Klit should be able to take him out, easily. But Lil Klit needs to stay active, and I agree with the earlier assessment that he needs to stay away from King for a few more fights. He should fight twice more this year, Brock and Juan Carlos Gomez would be realistic wouldn't you say?

I really like rematching with Brewster. Steward should not fear that match up.
Shawn

Roberto Aqui
04-23-2006, 06:22 PM
Klitschko has a puncher's chance b/c of Rahman's poor defense and questionable chin but .

Me thinks a lifetime of eating contaminated crawdaddys has left you with questionable judgement. Poor defense and a questionable chin is a guaranteed recipe for disaster against a bigger, stronger, younger, faster, more experienced and more accurate puncher with a 84% KO ratio. I suggest you stay away from any big bets.

HE Grant
04-23-2006, 06:31 PM
I think it's a very interesting match up as both men are skilled and both men are flawed. Rock definately has the power to challange Jr. It would be a tough test...let's face it, Jr. will always be a puncher away from getting clobbered...what makes him so interesting is his tremendous skils and his great intelligence, a brain thathe shows with his brother. His bouts will all be compelling because of this...I do say he easily beats Toney because Toney cannot hurt him.

Kid Achilles
04-23-2006, 09:47 PM
Toney cannot hurt him and physically does not have the strength to go twelve rounds with him leaning on him during the clinches. What tired Toney out more than the extra weight was fighting an opponent in Rahman who stayed on him, and shoved him around in the clinches. Toney never had great stamina at heavyweight, he's just very good at staying relaxed. When a bigger, stronger man is leaning and shoving you around it tires you out regardless of how relaxed you can be. Also remember how successful Rahman's jab was when he used it and keep in mind Wlad has a better jab than Rahman. Toney in any condition at this stage in his career would be an easy fight for Wlad.

The tough challenges out there are rematches with Peter and Brewster and perhaps a young Calvin Brock. You need two things to have a chance with Wladimir: a good chin and a big punch. Not many guys in this division have both.

hagler04
04-23-2006, 11:00 PM
TOS has an awful chin and he was competetive with Wlad and Klit was tiring by the 5th.

It's pretty easy to see. Wlad cannot take a good shot. At all. Lennox could take some licks and keep on tickin'. Can you imagine Wlad taking the shots that Mercer tagged Lewis with and remain standing? Wlad will never win a war of attrition b/c he cares for his health and physical security too much, and just hates getting hit. He fights from the outside-that is his comfort zone and as long as guys aren't pressing with power he can stay out there all night. When guys come in, all he can do is hold. He holds on to his opponents like they are his mother.

I was impressed with Hasim vs Toney. He showed the best conditioning of his whole career and kept pressing forward despite taking some big accurate shots from Toney (and Toney's not a big puncher but he surely hits harder than Byrd). Wladimir has never faced a big jabber-the closest thing was a 60 yr old Mercer and despite dominating Ray puffed Klitschko's eyes with just about 20 jabs thrown. Klitschko is prone to swelling and Rahman's jab would def. have Wladimir looking less than pretty. Add in some hard body shots (which Rahman has improved on) and you will see a tired Wlad ready to go by round 8, if not earlier. Of course Wlad could always take out Hasim with a great straight right but Rahman took the best of Sanders and Tua and came back (which Wlad could never do). His chin is decent.

Kid Achilles
04-24-2006, 01:30 AM
I haven't seen the fight with TOS in a while but I do not remember him being very competitive with Wladimir. He scored a knockdown, true, but he was being outboxed and outfought. I'll have to watch the fight again but I don't remember Wladimir tiring much either, just getting caught and then the cut that was caused by a clash of heads that took the fight to the scorecards and thus gave it to Wlad.

As for Rahman, I think he looked very good outworking a shorter weaker fighter like Toney who couldn't hurt him, but that hard swift jab in his face is not going to do him any favors in fighting his fight. I predict Wlad will outjab him, outfight him, and catch him with a right hand in the 4th or 5th round which will hurt him and leave him ripe for the kill.

I think Rahman's chin is decent but nowhere near as good as Byrd's. Don't forget that Byrd actually got up from IKe's monster uppercut and protested that stoppage. Aside from the slick defense, Byrd could always take it. I don't see Rahman hanging along as long as Byrd did if he is getting hit with any kind of regularity.

Who knows, we'll find out hopefully if Rahman can get by Maskaev (no sure thing considering what happened last time) and the fight is made, but I don't think Rahman will be much of a challenge for Wladimir Klitschko.

diggity
04-24-2006, 02:43 AM
I can see where hagler04 is coming from (though I didn't think TOS was competitive either other than a round) but I can't help but feel that a replay of Lewis/Rahman 2 will happen when Rahman gets in with Wlad, likely ending on the exact combination. What a beautiful beheading that was.

hagler04
04-24-2006, 09:54 AM
Wlad was winning rounds, but doing so unspectacularly and in no dominating fashion. Williamson could've been given the 1st and with the KD in the 4th it was technically a close fight. Wlad also did next to nothing that last round, and was visibly breathing heavy in the corner. That's why no-one was impressed w/ the TD. It did not seem clear at the time of the stoppage who was gonna win. Wlad wasn't just firing away at Davaryll like he was Byrd because he was SCARED of that counter right hand, just like he'd be scared of Rahmans.

As to the Toney fight, didn't Wlad just excel vs a shorter weaker fighter this weekend?

Lewis had faced plenty of decent jabbers his whole career before rematching Rahman (Bruno, Briggs, Mercer, Holyfield, Tucker) Who has Klitschko faced? A 41 yr old Mercer? McCline? Derrick Jefferson? Klitschko likes his outside range and when Hasim protrudes into it with his long stick Klitschko is going to be very bothered and his fragile skin will start to redden.

DscribeDC
04-24-2006, 10:39 AM
This is what always happens in the wake of "significant" fights. The results and their importance are blown way out of proportion.

What I saw was a Byrd who was showing lots of wear, exhbiting little upper body movement, not slippery or elusive. His defensive skills have eroded.

He was in against a much, much bigger man, trying to get in and slug on the inside with him. The mother of all bad game plans. With his longer arms, Wlad pecked away from distance; on the inside, Byrd got nothing done. There was no way Byrd could win. Give Wlad credit for better conditioning, but he was fighting a tailor-made opponent with an impossible fight plan.

Wlad would have had to drop dead of a heart attack to lose that fight.

Using the bout as a basis to proclaim that Wlad could beat a prime Ali is just silly. He is talented enough to hold 1/4 of the modern, make-believe belt. Maybe 1/2. But he's no world-beater.

OMG65
04-24-2006, 11:01 AM
Using the bout as a basis to proclaim that Wlad could beat a prime Ali is just silly. He is talented enough to hold 1/4 of the modern, make-believe belt. Maybe 1/2. But he's no world-beater.


Agree.

He isn't even Ma and Pa's Klitchkos' best boxing sibling.
Exciting offensive fighter and fun to watch?Yes.
Can he beat Rahman?Yes.
I'm surprised Peter din't put him away so I will give him some credit for hanging tough in that one.
That shaky chin could go at any time so who knows what will happen with this guy.

DscribeDC
04-24-2006, 01:28 PM
Let me clarify. It's not going inside that was the dumb move. It was walking in without an effective jab, no head movement and non-busy hands. Byrd's only fight was on the inside, but he just didn't have the tools to execute it.

darkknight718
04-24-2006, 01:30 PM
This was just about as bad as it's possible for Chris Byrd to look, and just about as good as it's possible for Klitschko to look. Wlad's an entertaining fighter -- he's quick, throws nice sharp, accurate punches, and moves pretty well for a big guy. He's got chin and stamina problems, but that just makes the fights that much more exciting. Kind of a Ukranian Michael Grant, if you will. The prior win over Peter was a good one, even if it was a little shaky, and this win was very nice indeed. He's definitely got momentum, which is more than you can say for Rahman, Toney, Brewster, Lyakhovich or any of the other folks.

Kid Achilles
04-24-2006, 01:41 PM
I wouldn't call the Peter win shakey. Two of the third knockdowns resulting from rabbit punching and the ref should have acknowledged that, perhaps even deducting a point from Peter. The only knockdown that wasn't tainted in that fight was in the 10th round, and Wlad got up from it and went on to stagger Peter with a left hook and win the last few rounds. A very good performance by Wlad.

PeteLeo
04-24-2006, 01:54 PM
A couple of points:
I forget who originally posted that "Wlad could knock out Ali and get no respect from the Klitschko haters . . . .", but (forgive my presumption) I think he meant that if, by some miracle, a prime Wlad HAD KO'd a prime Ali, he STILL would be derided by those across the spectrum who make it their mission in life to dump all over the guy.
Also, while I'm no huge Klitschko fan, I must say that Wlad is several levels better than that sculpted but talent-barren dork known as Michael Grant. Can you imagine what Peter, Mercer, Byrd, or even McCline would have done to Grant at his best . . . hey, wait half a mo'! We KNOW what McCline would have done to Grant because he did it! PeteLeo.

GorDoom
04-24-2006, 02:48 PM
Byrd-Klitschko Post-Fight Analysis
by Michael Olajide from Sweet Science

Rematches like this are always cool because you feel like you can truly measure the abilities of a fighter. Where they were and where they are going. Generally they have either slipped or stayed in the same place. (Ain’t it funny how they rarely improve once they get to top contended status?) At quick glance it seems both fighters’ abilities have been eroded by experience, Byrd by being more stationary and Klitschko’s wilting under the heat… But on closer inspection, Klitschko is not the same as he was. “Whenever a puncher loses the air of invincibility, even the non-punchers get brave.” So even though Wlad beat Chris from pillar to ring post the first time, this ain’t necessarily Bill Murray’s “groundhog day.” And in boxing, nothing is guaranteed.

The thought crosses my mind that whether Byrd can punch or not, if his opponent flinches whenever he is going to punch, he is being effective. I mean, why flinch if he doesn’t hit hard? Maybe the flinch is an “acquired instinct”… after being hit hard, a fist coming at you is a fist coming at you no matter what… interesting phenomenon, don’t you think? I mean, why would a 6’7 Jameel McCline hesitate from getting on Byrd? Whereas Ike Ibeabuchi just took it to him? Ah, the mind of a fighter.

Wlad’s entrance… ummm, boring… Chris’s… ummmm, boring ER. Neither one like Mike Tyson’s “Welcome to the Terrordome” entrance vs. Alex Stewart. But for the aforementioned reason this fight still interests me.

For years people have been on Byrd’s case, saying how he is the least desirable of the heavyweights to watch fight, wish he would get knocked out, blasé, blasé, so on and so forth. I looked at it differently. I thought it interesting that he could function in the heavyweight world. Kinda like those guys that can lay down in a bed of snakes and dude doesn’t get strangled or bit… wouldn’t do it myself, but more power to ya, guy! Give him credit, this man has got some bolas…

These thoughts come into my mind… The strangeness of hearing the US national anthem by violin… The grit is gone… it is so NOT the United States I know... Not as entertaining but more talented than Rosanne Barr’s rendition, I guess.

Don’t know Klitschko, but from meeting Chris, I like him.

How many languages does Buffer speak?

Wlad, on first glance looks big, but soft, not as chiseled as before… maybe it’s cuz I don’t have the Hi-Def TV? Why do heavyweights never come out warmed up? No sweat. I think Emmanuel is going to send him out BOMBING… Like he did Lewis vs. Golota. Byrd looks good physically.


Round 1
Byrd pressing the fight. Byrd with left to the body. A jab or two by Klitschko. Klitschko doesn’t let his hands go. Byrd’s left to the body is like trying to sink the Bismarck with a peashooter, but it is a scoring blow. Byrd’s round.

Round 2
Klitschko’s round behind a couple good rights, but, gee… MAN UP! He may be doing the right thing, but something about him flinching and grabbing against a much smaller opponent boggles me. Kinda like when I saw Hagler moving and trying to box laterally and in reverse against Duran… it didn’t make sense.

Round 3
If Byrd can keep Klitschko flexed, he can win this fight but Wlad is letting his hands go more, plus he is jousting with his left. Not letting Chris get close, Wlad round

Round 4
Chris got hurt with a right. Getting picked apart from the outside. Chris don’t know how to counter. Merchant can’t understand why the ref is on Klitschko about holding… it isn’t that it’s wrong for a fighter to hold, I think it is weird seeing someone with considered physical advantages holding a smaller less powerful man. And I am sure the ref and even his fans thought the same thing. Nonetheless, Wlad’s round.

Round 5
BAM, Chris hits the deck from a huge right hand… caught a beating all the way through the round. Didn’t know what he got hit with. Interesting to hear the corner conversation… but they didn’t stay with it, UNFORTUNATELY. Klitschko’s round

Round 6
Chris got no answer for the straight right. Klitschko, getting braver. Byrd gotta fade left and come with the right hook to hit this guy. Klitschko ain’t the only one on Byrd’s back, now it’s wifey… But throwing inside shots when a 6’6, 240-pound man is laying on your back ain’t easy Tracy, sorry. Besides, right now she’s spouting words of advice to ease herself, she thinks it’s helping Chris, but it ain’t. “Get under his right and come with the straight left” is good advice. “You’re fighting stupid”… well, maybe that’s code communication for something else. Klitschko round. Just busier.

Round 7
Ugh, Byrd nailed with UGLY shots. The type of shots that “repeat themselves,” especially when you sitting on the couch watching the grandchildren play… And DOWN again! The fight is stopped! Klitschko used his ability as a big man to throw any kinda punch and took Chris’s title. Say whatever about him, but Klitschko does have great ability to move the hands with accuracy, power and speed… Chris’s plan was to beat this guy by pressing him and waiting for him to get tired. But Wlad is like Tommy Hearns, he don’t get tired unless you bring the heat followed by lefts and rights, otherwise you will catch a beat-down as long as your motor skills don’t run out of gas.

“Whenever a puncher loses the air of invincibility, even the non-punchers get brave.” And so there was Byrd’s undoing. He convinced himself that he could actually walk through a 240-pound man’s punches and do what he has never done before, at least as a heavyweight… knock his man out. What was it that made Chris fight that kinda fight? Instead of focusing on his own strengths, he focused on Klitschko weakness… He neglected his own abilities and got the “sickness.” He got the curse of the puncher and he isn’t and never was a puncher. That is an anomaly… beyond the realm of comprehension… Man, it takes me back to Mancini and Art Frias…. Double digit wins, single digit KO’s, and he comes out like a house on fire… he surprised “Boom-Boom” initially, but nature got back to normalcy pretty quick.

HBO says Klitchsko’s the best of the heavyweights… And I don’t completely disagree… But there is still a matter of Rahman, whom I believe has the goods to give Klitschko some unfortunate flashbacks… James Toney; I would pay money to see that one (Revenge of the Former Middleweights) and even Lamon Brewster… That win was no fluke, he took Wlad’s heart in that fight, does he still have it? Writing Lamon off now is like writing Wlad off after the Brewster fight. Now look, he’s back on top. Klitschko definitely has some questions to answer and unanswered questions always create great drama.

Klitchsko’s biggest advantage this night? Emmanuel Stewart. The man is smart. Was this a great fight? No, and if that were someone’s initiation to boxing it must look like some warped slaughter… 6’1, 210-pound American vs. a 6’6, 240-pound eastern European built like Zeus (adrenaline does some amazing things) in the middle of Germany. From that performance I can see why the AMA has always called for the abolishment of boxing. But we are adults and make our own decisions. Saturday night, Byrd made the worst decision of his boxing life.

Roberto Aqui
04-24-2006, 03:26 PM
Just checking out the schedule and thinking how Wlad may be entering another busy phase of his career, Brock fights in late June, so a Brock fight is probably off until the end of the year at the earliest. Rahman has to fight Maskaev in a fight not yet made. I doubt Wlad will immediately attempt to consolidate against Valuev/Lyakohvich, so that leaves Gomez, Brewster, Ruiz, Toney, and Sultan as possible opponents.

Wlad could fight in a couple weeks since the Byrd fight was so easy, so I can see him making a defense around the time Brock fights. I'd pick Gomez or Brewster as likeliest candidates. Brewster may be falling apart so there's no guarantee he can fight his way back into the title picture, so this may be the only opportunity for a rematch. Gomez is a former sparring partner and might make a good Euro type defense, but I'm mystified by his career which always seems stalled and filled with rumors of drug use, but only rumors. They could use the Byrd game plan for Gomez and Brewster.

hawk5ins
04-24-2006, 05:08 PM
Living in a house with an ever increasingly emotional, pregnant wife and two little girls 6 & 4, Sleep depravation (why can't 7 month pregnant wives just lay still when they are sleeping? Sheesh!) and trying to survive living in a House of Vagina (And #3 will be a girl as well. To complete the Houase of V.), sometimes (translation: often), I'm a bit slow on sarcasm and other witty remarks.

But did I read clearly here that Based on his KO over Chris Byrd, Wlad would now beat Muhammad Ali?

Really?

Hawk

PeteLeo
04-24-2006, 05:29 PM
Brewster is out for at least six months with his retina surgery (and possibly longer).
The "KO'ing Ali" remark -- overstepping my bounds again -- I think was made merely as a "fer'instance" of how Klitschko haters would react ("Ali sucked anyway!") if somehow that result had occurred. I don't think it was ever meant as an actual prediction or even a suggestion of one.
Hey! Who said it? Come on back here and take up for yourself! I'm getting woozy! PeteLeo.

Roberto Aqui
04-24-2006, 06:04 PM
I'm the guy who made the Ali KO remark, and it I didn't state that Wlad WOULD do such a thing, but rather IF he were to accomplish such a feat the peanut gallery would still be booing Wlad.

At any rate, boxing history is filled with much more incredulous events, so I really don't understand why anyone wants to bunch their shorts up over such a remark.

mrbig1
04-24-2006, 06:23 PM
Big win for Wlad, but still not sold.

hawk5ins
04-24-2006, 06:55 PM
But usually when the upsettee is at less than his best.

When suggesting Fighter A could beat Fighter B, when Fighter B is a readily established , hall of fame, All time great, proven commodity, I would think that we are taking Fighter A and Fighter B at their very bests.

If that IS the scenario, than I'm not sure how one could justify an upset happening, when considering Fighter A has never accmoplished something that would ever suggest that he could beat an Ali at HIS best.

And IF Klitschko were to ever perform anything remotely as impressive as beating someone that COULD be considered great, then He WOULD get the accolades.

I think he needs to actually DO somthing akin to that in order to get such credit.

Then agian, maybe it's the house of V making me say something that crazy.

Hawk

DscribeDC
04-24-2006, 08:19 PM
Maybe I'm nuts, but I think it would be hilarious if all four belts were held by fighters from the former USSR. For years, Americans acted like they owned the heavyweight championship by right. Clearly, from the sagging quality of the division, that sense of entitlement has made American heavies soft. Besides, a real Rocky IV us-vs-them series of rivalries might be the only thing that can reignite interest in boxing among the casual fans. Sound like a wrestling plot? Yeah, but the sweet science should be thankful for the chance to generate some of wrestling's commercial heat.

Crold1
04-24-2006, 10:17 PM
EMANUEL STEWARD’S MAGIC MAKES WLADIMIR UNBEATABLE?

24 April, 2006 by Cliff Rold


STEWARD HAS MADE KLITSCHKO LETHAL!

Landover, MD-Trainer Manny Steward has always had a thing for lanky punchers. Thomas Hearns, Gerald McClellan, Michael Moorer and Lennox Lewis were all lethal punchers, all made more so under Steward’s tutelage. Saturday night in Mannheim, Germany, it appeared that Steward has found the latest model of his prototype. With better balance than he has ever shown in his career, Wladimir Klitschko (46-3-1, 41 KO’S) gained the IBF heavyweight title and looked the part of being a heavyweight destroyer as he was originally billed to be. In the process, he likely ended Chris Byrd (39-3-1, 20 KO’S) as a title contender, a final right hand in the seventh round shattering his hopes and splintering the flesh above his left eye.

Read the Rest Here... (http://ringtalk.com/index.php?action=fullnews&showcomments=1&id=507)

newpoppop
04-24-2006, 11:16 PM
[QUOTE=Kid Achilles]I agree Walker. Wlad is very marketable and unlike Byrd who squeaked by with close decisions, he'll either win convincingly or lose via KO. Has he ever been outboxed for an entire fight in his whole career?


Here we go again ... No he's never been out boxed. But he's many times been out gutted & more than once he's been a girlie man.

& since when has been being mass marketable had anything to do with a man's fighting abilities?

I give up ... Wlad Klit is Jesus on roller blades & is gonna not only save boxing but become President Shrub's advisor (He does have a doctorate in P.E. mind you) & extricate us from the Middle East problems which at this point look bound to destroy us.

Not only is he a great Ukranian/German but he's also as American as apple pie & political bullshit ...

Dempsey, Louis, Rock, Ali, Larry & Leg-Iron Mike, move over, you've been replaced by the blindingly fish-belly white, glory, that is Wlad "Lil'" Klit' Klitschko.

Oy, fucking, vey ...

GorDoom

With all due respect, why do you have such loathing for Wlad? I wouldn't go so far as to say that he's the savior of the heavyweight division, but I do think he deserves some credit for not quitting after a couple of devastating losses. I think he could be a dominant force, considering the makeup of the heavies.

Peace.

diggity
04-24-2006, 11:45 PM
Some people find forgiving his losses a little harder, especially when you were just waiting for them and even more the style in which they were lost.

Let's rehash.
Quitting on your stool in a fight you were winning to a trial horse...an embarrassingly quick, multiple KDs to a TKO loss by the hands of a retired golfer followed by an even MORE embarrassing TKO loss in one of the pathetic collapses ever by yet another underachiever.

Is there anyone past or present in boxing who possesses a string of more embarrassing losses in their supposed prime?

Not everyone bought into the hype newpop so when it seemingly ended it wasn't such a surprise for some. I tend to forgive those losses more than most due to his recent efforts but man those are some doozies. I doubt anyone would argue that Wlad has some talent but that's not what it's all about.

PeteLeo
04-25-2006, 01:47 AM
"Quitting on his stool against a trial horse he was easily beating" (or words to that effect)? If you're talking about Puritty, man, you need to track down a tape. Wlad came out for the last round dead on his feet (after getting caught and pounded the round before), but he was still in there, throwing and taking, when his corner clambered into the ring to stop it. There was no stool-quitting in that one.
Maybe you were thinking of Vitali-Byrd? PeteLeo.

Roberto Aqui
04-25-2006, 04:17 AM
Let's rehash.
Quitting on your stool in a fight you were winning to a trial horse...an embarrassingly quick, multiple KDs to a TKO loss by the hands of a retired golfer followed by an even MORE embarrassing TKO loss in one of the pathetic collapses ever by yet another underachiever.

Since Pete already addressed the Puritty bout, do you think Hagler lost his title to a retired TV pitchman Leonard, or that Moorer lost to a retired hamburger salesman/grandpa Foreman?

Which do you think is more embarassing, collapsing into what suspiciously appears to be diabetic shock after delivering one of the most brutal beatdowns ever witnessed, or losing your undisputed heavy title to Leon Spinks?

Hey, he lost. It happens to everyone not named Marciano.

diggity
04-25-2006, 06:32 AM
Thanks Pete, I obviously haven't seen the bout but got my info crossed between the 2 brothers but even further proves the point. Purrity was never anything more than a heavyweight heavybag.

Regardless

I don't see how anyone can compare Wlad to anyone Roberto mentioned, hall of fame careers at least happened first. Everyone just "loses" but what we are talking about here is not even in the same ballpark.

I like watching Wlad fight and even more so now but all I'm saying is that I completely understand when someone like Bucket wants to laugh his ass off when people get excited about him.

Kid Achilles
04-25-2006, 06:39 AM
I really do notice a lot of contempt for Wladimir on this forum and on others. I'm not sure what it is about the guy, but he can't seem to do right in some people's eyes. As of beating Byrd he has the most impressive record of any other heavyweight out there, with the best wins under his belt.

Yet there are many who still consider him a disgrace to boxing. The guy has never been counted out, has always risen to his feet to fight on in the face of adversity, and yet people still find a way to attack his heart.

I'm not calling him an all time great, but in my opinion he's the best heavyweight out there for what it's worth.

Roberto Aqui
04-25-2006, 06:39 AM
Was Mike Weaver a great champ? Sharkey? Ingo? Does Wlad have to be a great champ to get respect? Being a great champ didn't appear to help Lewis get respect.

As far as quitters goes, Sonny Liston quit on his stool in a fight Ali wanted to quit in first. I guess some quitters don't stink, eh?

Dubblechin
04-26-2006, 12:17 PM
This is what always happens in the wake of "significant" fights. The results and their importance are blown way out of proportion.

What I saw was a Byrd who was showing lots of wear, exhbiting little upper body movement, not slippery or elusive. His defensive skills have eroded.



Well, six years ago, before Byrd began to show wear, and when he still had great upper body movement, and when he was slippery and elusive ... Wlad DOMINATED the same way.

In their first fight, Wlad dominated and dropped Byrd twice and the only reason it wasn't stopped then was someone in the corner was holding Byrd's dad down in the 11th so he couldn't throw in the towel.

Don't blame the loss on Byrd getting old, because Wlad killed him when Byrd was in his "prime" too.

Dubblechin
04-26-2006, 12:20 PM
This was just about as bad as it's possible for Chris Byrd to look, and just about as good as it's possible for Klitschko to look. Wlad's an entertaining fighter -- he's quick, throws nice sharp, accurate punches, and moves pretty well for a big guy. He's got chin and stamina problems, but that just makes the fights that much more exciting. Kind of a Ukranian Michael Grant, if you will. The prior win over Peter was a good one, even if it was a little shaky, and this win was very nice indeed. He's definitely got momentum, which is more than you can say for Rahman, Toney, Brewster, Lyakhovich or any of the other folks.

Liakhovich doesn't have momentum?

He just won a title from Brewster in what was one of the fights of the year.

Wlad's win was great. Sergei's win was great. The heavyweight division is on a roll. The champs who have stunk out the joint for years are losing. Byrd's gone. Ruiz is gone.

The division is looking up finally.

diggity
04-26-2006, 07:24 PM
Good positive points Dubble

daddymofo
04-26-2006, 10:51 PM
Liakhovich doesn't have momentum?

He just won a title from Brewster in what was one of the fights of the year.

Wlad's win was great. Sergei's win was great. The heavyweight division is on a roll. The champs who have stunk out the joint for years are losing. Byrd's gone. Ruiz is gone.

The division is looking up finally.


Hear hear! The division is looking up, even if only a little bit, at least we can enjoy a few decent HW fights. I like that Sultan Inbrwhaterthehellhisnameis too, he's yet another Eastern European, and we finally have a little new blood coming through the ranks. No shame in enjoying these fights.

hagler04
04-27-2006, 01:32 AM
Don't count Ruiz out yet . . . . he comes back like the plague

thumper3852
04-27-2006, 10:51 AM
hagler04 makes a good point...we should all be afraid, very afraid.

GorDoom
04-27-2006, 11:25 AM
Yeah, ugly thought ... But Ruiz as God awful as he is to watch would probably wear Wlad out by simply outgutting him. Wlad has the skills but he still has a lot to prove in the gut check department.

Ruiz for all his faults does come to fight ... Well maybe maul is a better way to put it, but that's exactly the type of thing that gets to Klit. & Ruiz would get inside. He's big & strong enough unlike Byrd.

But no, I really wouldn't want to see that fight.

GGorDoom

thumper3852
04-27-2006, 11:50 AM
yes, let's not utter the words again lest they come true.

gregbeyer
04-27-2006, 04:49 PM
sorry...i have to mention it again.

wlad could very well decide to clean up the ex champs before the other "champs". next could be ruiz followed by roy jones...ugh.

i personally would like to see wlad-big hairy guy. never saw valuev fight but the pictures are amazing. rather than punch stats they could set up a richter scale in case the big guy hits the deck.

things are working out for wlad. liacovich did him a big favor by setting brewster back a rung or two. sergei is a much better fight for wlad than brewster ( a trim in shape brewster). getting sam peter out of the way for awhile was a big boost for wlad.

if he could clobber the big hairy guy, out box sergei he ends up the top guy.

with the competition being what it is after that. wlad, without knowing how to go to the body, with his questionable chin and lack of any punch that is not thrown over the top can stand back and hold the rest off.

i know i am leaving out toney and rachman. after their fight i don't see toney as being attractive and rachman - wlad brings up memories of rachman-lewis II. i think the dream is over for rachman. even if he is dangerous now wlad has plenty of room to step around him if he chooses.

maybe a couple of round robin tourneys would be in order:

in the ex-champ category we put roy jones, chris byrd and john ruiz this would of course be non televised. hopefully.

in the champ category....hell just put all the eastern euros...

the winner of their respective categories to face each other....

i am pulling for a showdown between valuev and roy jones. promoters have to salivate over this one! hell....just the photos alone are guaranteed classics...

who's complaining about the prospects in the heavyweight division?

ugh.
greg

hagler04
04-27-2006, 07:51 PM
A Valuev-Toney press conference would be worth that fight right there . . .

Sharkey
04-28-2006, 11:02 AM
Is it unfair to remain sober when analyzing Wlad? Is it picking on him to ask him to achieve what one normally would have to to be called 'excllent'? I do not recall Greg Page, Gerrie Coetzee, Mike Weaver or a scad of heavyweights being exempt from reminders of their failings. When they achieved, did they nonetheless fail to wipe their past failings from history?

It is not picking on Wlad, hating Wlad or even being skewed to the negative of Wlad to take into account his ENTIRE career. This includes losses. Sonny Liston's quit job was agianst Ali. Even then, his standing suffers. Yet it wasAli. It was following championship level achievement for a decade or more. Not Brewster. Not Sanders. Not problems with TOS..this has all happened before the achievement of dominance.

You mention Sharkey. Jack Sharkey had tons of bad losses..he was regarded as wasting talent. He was held to be a talented guy that had the motivation of solely money and ego..and such was negative, shirking the fans and himself of the potential of a serious, steady performer. No one forgot or forgets that he drew with Walker, or lost to Maloney..or Heeney..a guy he really should have blinked at and beaten. Risko? The Rubberman beats a defensive master that dictates the pace in every fight he had win or lose? If someone mentions Sharkey as a very good heavy, 5 someones mention his erratic record. Why should Wlad then be free from similar assessment? My username is not related in anyway to The Gob, by the way.

This isn't even a deal of assessing Wlad vis a vis Sharkey or Liston, but rather many observers choosing to take a sober look at Wlad, rather than a fight to fight look at him. It is natural to wonder why so many seem to ignore the good and bring up the bad, or temper every good with negative. I don't see however Wlad fighting a stigma unfair and place don him particularly.

Wlad doesn't get slighted in the credit department. It is not as if he is doing things with the highest degree of competence and being sold as a guy that can't fight by a few miserly, generally negative and unhappy people. Rather, most of us will decline to regard him as a fighter that was terrific, hit a bad spell, and now is terrific again. Instead, he is a good fighter with great physical tools with weaknesses that have been shown to not be aberrant.

Let's say then that Corrie Sanders doesn't get a lot of respect either. He was also a 'champion'. He had little commitment to the sport, and yet was avoided by Lewis and then pissed his chance to force such a showdown away. Formative years, prime years wasted by infrequent fighting and frequent sandwedge action. Lennox Lewis attended Sanders' fights and made no bones, public comments that Sanders was not someone he was looking at to fight. He even mentioned on more than one occassion that Sanders as a lefty and with his speed was too dangerous to fight given the likely payday.

This was the guy that as 'finished' crushed Wlad when Wlad was terminating the likes of Byrd. His own Nate Tubbs loss was a miracle shot. One of those things, His bugaboo of poor defense (or lack of concern) exploited. (Like Wlad's stamina and front-runner mentality exposed by Ross). If Sanders was similarly lucky, then maybe the Lamon loss was Sanders' work as well...the lack of confidence borught on by Corrie's beating. Sanders then should be free of all of that given his win over Wlad..and further by making Vitali see triple while out of shape and sucking air after 15 seconds, in what most would call a disgrace of lack of preparedness.

So, by this logic of Wlad not being able to do enough to get respect..and the respect nonetheless he has and DOES get, it is more accurate to state Sanders doesn't get enough respect rather. How about zero relatively to Wlad? The Rahman fight showed carelessness and the continuance of the South African tradition of high-energy=low stamina. The Vitali fight was a golfer who hadn't fought in a year in horrible shape that succumbed as much to mobility and stamina issues than anything the stronger brother brought.

That is how it can be assessed if need be. When he beat Wlad, Corrie didn't soak in a lot of kudos so much as Wlad was deemed infirm or had something wrong with him. The default with Wlad was always he was a machine..if he failed the machine was broken. If he succeeded it was inevitable.

I will now maintain that Corrie Sanders, who I rooted for anyway due to his extraordinary power and speed, is given the short-shrift. I do believe he had the chance to be a major player in the division...I don't really believe it matters if someone thinks he was #61 all time, rather than #31. But I could.

darkknight718
04-28-2006, 12:51 PM
Liakhovich doesn't have momentum?

He just won a title from Brewster in what was one of the fights of the year.

Yes, that was a good win in a good fight, and so yes, I guess you could say that Sergei has some momentum. But one win does not a champion-class fighter make. I just can't put Lyakhovich in the same class yet as Byrd, or Toney, or Klitschko. He could be the real deal. Or he could be the guy who got KOd by Maurice Harris and has over-achieved since then. We'll see.

In any event, Klitschko's win over the hardest puncher in the division, followed by the destruction of the "best" boxer in the division in back to back fights clearly outstrips whatever Lyhakovich has done.

GorDoom
04-28-2006, 01:21 PM
"In any event, Klitschko's win over the hardest puncher in the division, followed by the destruction of the "best" boxer in the division in back to back fights clearly outstrips whatever Lyhakovich has done."

WHAAA??? I'l go along with Lyhakovich has more to prove. But let's examine the rest of your claim: Byrd the best boxer? Did you see the fight? he had nothing left. No upper body movement, no legs, no hope. At one time, sure, he was the best boxer but that was a few years ago ... Sam Peter the best puncher?

Wel,l he does have brute power but he has ZERO boxing skills. Even so Klit either went down the three times or hugged him like a long lost brother every time Peter got close. Klit showed no real stamina & like in the Byrd fight WAY too much caution.

With Byrd if he had let his hands go in the first round he would have gotten him out of there & looked like a real fighter. Instead he was ultra cautious (Why? Byrd has NO punch) & kept him at arms length until he finally opened up at the end.

Not a commanding performance for the "best" heavyweight. Neither was Peter.

My take is that the only reason Lil' Klit became a fighter was because his big brother did. Big Klit showed a helluva lot of stones in the Lewis fight. Lil' Klit has NEVER shown that kind of grit - & no, just because he got up a couple of times when Sanders floored him, that's not grit.

Lil' Klit simply doesn't have the right stuff to be a warrior. Luckily for him the heavyweights are such detritus that he probably is the best of a really sad bunch.

GorDoom

darkknight718
04-28-2006, 02:31 PM
WHAAA??? I'l go along with Lyhakovich has more to prove. But let's examine the rest of your claim: Byrd the best boxer? Did you see the fight? he had nothing left. No upper body movement, no legs, no hope. At one time, sure, he was the best boxer but that was a few years ago ... Sam Peter the best puncher?

Peter hits pretty hard. With Tua having eaten his way out of contention, I think Peter measures up against almost anyone currently active as a puncher. I agree with you, of course, that he's no boxer. So, just like Tua, when Peter runs into a tall guy who can move a bit, he's lost. Klitschko could have had a much easier time of it than he did. Nevertheless, it takes something to absorb Peter's best shots and come back. As I said above, an "iffy" win, but a good one.

As for Byrd, I agree with you that he's slipped a bit in the past few years. Part of that, I think, has been a conscious change in style, an attempt to make his fights a little more exciting so that he gets more opportunities. And part, of course, is just natural deterioration of his capabilities. But I think he's got more left than he showed in the Klitschko fight. I think he went in with the plan to come forward, throw bombs, and try to knock Klit out. He probably knew he couldn't win a decision in Germany and figured Vlad would fold once he got tapped on the chin. Still, other than maybe Toney (at least when he's off the steroids), I'm not sure who's currently a better pure boxer than Byrd.

I totally agree, btw, that Klit isn't the savior of the division, or anything other than a reasonably athletic, big guy who can box a little. He looked better against Byrd than he has in a while, but that's probably because he'd beaten him up once already and knew that Byrd can't break an egg. I think he'll still have to prove himself, if he can, and he'll never be a dominant heavyweight. But among the top couple of guys -- Rahman, Toney, Byrd, Ruiz, Brewster, et. al. -- he's the one who's put together two good solid wins in a row against top competition.