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View Full Version : entire 1st rd of dempsey willard on view...



HandToMouth
07-02-2006, 10:07 PM
the 1st rd in its entirity now on youtube.... willard clearly isnt the hack some try to write him off as... he looks very competent until first knockdown... you'll never see dempsey's feet this good again.... guy was really athletic at this point... you can also quickly click on and off the play button to get a slow motion effect... unlike the film though, you dont see the same head snap on the first knockdown... nevertheless its a good feature to breakdown form in several of these sequences... check out the right cross at 3:48 seconds in w/ that stop play feature, worth the replay, as vicious a shot as the first knockdown... use link below:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SZEkEbtVvRk&search=jack%20dempsey

JimmyShimmy
07-03-2006, 06:50 AM
I have done a Dempsey montage that is 16 mins long, 224MB - simply too big.

I cut up the Willard fight with numerous zooms and slow downs.

Jack often fought more conserved to consider defence and range of engagement, but he had a bet to win here and as Willard said, he was dead after the first knockdown - Jack sensed that and turned tiger.

iskigoe
07-03-2006, 11:59 PM
Handtomouth

What a treat for someone who has read all he can read but has no access to old fight films . I used to think my grandfather was lucky because he knew so many famous people Damon Runyon , Walter winchel, Masterson, Rude Goldberg, Irving Berlin , corbett, Ruth, Barrymore's ,Capone , the list goes on and on .

Now I know he was lucky because the the "lucky son of a b@##$h got a front row seat to see the most perfect punching machine in the sport he loved . I say no one can survive that left hook . PERFECT !

Joe Louis if I read it once I've read it a hundred times said Hype Igoe always told him he thought he could beat Dempsey . I believe he meant the Dempsey
that fought Tunney . NO ONE could have beat Jack the day he beat Willard
From my reading I think the only boxer in history that had a head that could stand chance against that left hook may have been Jeffries in his prime . He took awlful beatings to the head form some great punchers . Dempsey would pound his head while Jeffries pounded his body . What a fight that would have been .

Seeing that round is like seeing Ruth hit a home run or secrteriat win the triple crown or Jordan make an impossible shot . Jack was the David of our time an Achilles a true warrior .

Hype wrote it was the only fight he could remember that everyone in attandance was on their feet screaming . I played it at work for a few guys and the same is still true a hundred yrs later . They were all standing and groaning , one guy even tried to duck one of the punches . If Jack fought today he be baned form tv hell he'd be baned from pay per view .

A great treat THANKS If I like Jack before there no dout now that Dempsey
was un beatable

Igoe

jim
07-05-2006, 12:54 PM
its great to see this. its a little on the slow side about 20 secons slowere than the original . the count and bell was screwed up from start to end of bell.20 or more slower--but its great-people rarely see the whole round much less fight.

mike
07-05-2006, 01:09 PM
that shot to the head refferet to above--if the ropes werent there -poor willard would have landed a few rows deep.

jim
07-05-2006, 01:26 PM
the actual length of the first round was cut short by 8 to 10 seconds according to various writers who timed the actual round despite bell mishaps and kearns/dempsey should have won the bet-but its to late for that.

jim
07-05-2006, 05:24 PM
one thing is certain--in all of dempseys films- there are definate times where his opponents wanted to and did duck or run for cover--he scared and bewildered them, all of them at some point during the bout-often more than once.

jim
07-05-2006, 05:34 PM
hand to mouth--that clicking on and off works preety damn good!!i like the smaller, clearer size of the film--but to each their own. that right towards the end, in slow motion, actually aall in slow motion is the way to capture the impacts,,any rate ,the right towards the end part was slamming!!

langford
07-05-2006, 05:53 PM
Great forum, here. That first round deserves an triple X rating.

jim
07-05-2006, 07:40 PM
ditto above. i once, and only once showed that fight to at the time my girlfriend,later to be my wife. at that time she had a fair interest in boxing as i had introduced her to boxing conditionig and teaching, and she still gets her "workout" skipping rope, she was already great at that since a kid.as well as shadow boxing,hitting the heavy bag, and occasionally letting her hit me- and she does it by rounds. she will watch boxing but never dempsey; i own a large screen tv; and when i showed her this fight above; she told me a few moments later to never show that fight or anything to do with that dempsey guy; ever. she thinks hes a psyopathic manic and whatever he did in later years is dressing on a wolf with rabies. so, langford, no kids or women allowed.

mike
07-05-2006, 08:40 PM
What i would like to know is exactly who were the idiots who let that fight go on the very second willard was stunned in the second round??its only, only by hindsight that we know willard was not killed. At the time, no such knowlege--it would have simial to let beau continue the next round against willams after that massacre ; and then being hurt again had that round eneded. If ike killed jack after his assault- and not wanting to hit him anymore- what would have been the conscqences to boxing, willards handlers, dempsey,kearns and boxing if the heavyweight champion were to have died against that animal and everybody seemingly to let it happen. Didnt anybody think of that during the last two rounds?? this i dont get.

iskigoe
07-05-2006, 09:23 PM
Mike

A question in your opinion , was it the norm up to that time to let a fight go on like that . Reading a little about the Jeffries - Fitz fight . It seems Jeffries took an awful beating and won, a fight that surely would have been stoped in these times .

What effect did this fight have on stopping fights besides neutral corner during count

Igoe

mike
07-05-2006, 11:02 PM
well since beeny parets death and probably before the important fights were stopped less quickly as far as all historians and fighters i know of--but igoe .at least they knew enough with a top fighter, not to ruin them. a lesser fighter, it did not mean as much. the jeffries fight was at least competetive and many a competive fight would have been stopped ,with blood running all around, more quickly since the sixties--but certainly not always. wepner a great case in point. what has always irked me about the willard fight and now nobody seems to care , was it was PERFECT scenrio for a death to happen, in a one sided slaugher with a worlds champion, the heavyweight champion on top of all of this, for what was at the time described as something like "pugilistic murder". now, first off, most everybody there knew of dempseys background and his attitude in the ring. all the experts, including your relative KNEW this. at the end of the first round, well they were much more than convinced of this. this guy was NOt ever going to take it easy that day. rember when foreman obilterated frazier?? at least foreman told them to stop it. in any important fight, forget this from dempsey. but as said--this part of him was very well known to those who mattered. THEN, this fight took place in literally 120 degree heat -under the sun- verified by thermaters at ringside- and whats worse-- it was very humid--its hard enough to breath--much less fight under a hot, humid schorching 120 sun. Fliescher blamed the whole secon and third rounds on willards seconds. in the end , i guess it would be to them and manger ,if he had one at that time. some of the crowd were yelling to stop it, and others were watching in disgust of "willard disintegrating in plain view" of everybody.but igoe, make no mistake, atletes in football,car racing, jockeys, etc had at that time been getting killed at a high enough rate--high than now --for rickard to know about deaths--not to mention the ring..in the end , it was more by chance that willard did not collapse and die after that destruction in that furnace against a ptiless fighter---and EVERYBODY except willard and dempsey would have been in coercion--imagine if willard had collaped , fatally,all of this being brought to court, and then the jurers were shown that fight!! hindsight is nothing but ,at times, only blind.

mike
07-05-2006, 11:02 PM
well since beeny parets death and probably before the important fights were stopped less quickly as far as all historians and fighters i know of--but igoe .at least they knew enough with a top fighter, not to ruin them. a lesser fighter, it did not mean as much. the jeffries fight was at least competetive and many a competive fight would have been stopped ,with blood running all around, more quickly since the sixties--but certainly not always. wepner a great case in point. what has always irked me about the willard fight and now nobody seems to care , was it was PERFECT scenrio for a death to happen, in a one sided slaugher with a worlds champion, the heavyweight champion on top of all of this, for what was at the time described as something like "pugilistic murder". now, first off, most everybody there knew of dempseys background and his attitude in the ring. all the experts, including your relative KNEW this. at the end of the first round, well they were much more than convinced of this. this guy was NOt ever going to take it easy that day. rember when foreman obilterated frazier?? at least foreman told them to stop it. in any important fight, forget this from dempsey. but as said--this part of him was very well known to those who mattered. THEN, this fight took place in literally 120 degree heat -under the sun- verified by thermaters at ringside- and whats worse-- it was very humid--its hard enough to breath--much less fight under a hot, humid schorching 120 sun. Fliescher blamed the whole secon and third rounds on willards seconds. in the end , i guess it would be to them and manger ,if he had one at that time. some of the crowd were yelling to stop it, and others were watching in disgust of "willard disintegrating in plain view" of everybody.but igoe, make no mistake, atletes in football,car racing, jockeys, etc had at that time been getting killed at a high enough rate--high than now --for rickard to know about deaths--not to mention the ring..in the end , it was more by chance that willard did not collapse and die after that destruction in that furnace against a ptiless fighter---and EVERYBODY except willard and dempsey would have been in coercion--imagine if willard had collaped , fatally,all of this being brought to court, and then the jurers were shown that fight!! hindsight is nothing but ,at times, only blind.

iskigoe
07-05-2006, 11:58 PM
Mike

As you know by now my interest in boxing is mostly to find out about a side of my family I never new growing up . I hope you did not misunderstand my question , and feel I also felt the fight sould not have been stopped . It is more then clear that the fight should have been stopped in the first round and the victory would have been just as glourious . I would find it hard to believe that anyone could blame Dempsey for the next three rounds . His job was to fight there were many people there whose job it was to stop the fight
But as you say if the worst happened he surely would have been the one held guilty.

In finding my my through boxing you have been kind to me in your posting .
so I'am takin back a little by your reaction to my post . My small amount of research has shown me that Hype loved the art of boxing . But now you bring me to wonder many of the fights he loved were beatings and many were of skilled boxing.. You say a few times in your post " every body but Igoe ". I'm not sure how you meant that, do you feel that he was unjust in his reaction to the fight . Because I to loved to see this fight but dont care to see the other rounds , because the fight was over in the first . If you have read that Hype believed differnt please lead me to these article's .

Again Mike I say your posting to me has been kind and I felt my question of "was this the norm ", would be something you would also answer in same , from some one trying to learn. But in trying to get a feel for old Hypus you make me want to find out his feelings on when enough is enough . so for that i thank you .

your friend in posting

Igoe

mike
07-06-2006, 01:01 AM
igoe-most of the fights he covered were increbible displays of skill toughness, everything--probaly not to reaalley matched . maybe you misinterpreted this--but had willard collasped fatally--demspey and his corner would surely have been excempt. your grandad befor this fight must have knew he was some kind of fighter and as he said may well have been unbeatable. the neutral corner rule came in because ,not just of dempseys willingness to follow that rule-or lack of --others did it also--but dempsey was in 1923 eyes ,g etting just too dangerous for this. before dempsey--no huge voices were against this-- with dempseys blisteringpower; his crucifition of willard, he sent brennan to the hospital for awhile half paralized, his braking of spparring partners bones, and then sending firpo, a man of huge "neanderthal" bonestructure--which it was-his fists were nearly twice the size of marcianos, with massive ribs- into a frightened, confused, and hurt cow of the pampas-- well its time to be safe than sorry. it wasnt so much brutal ,overmatched puchouts--it was more of safety for the men dempsey may fight after 1923--they didnt know he wasnt going to fight for 3 years--they figured probaly real soon .

iskigoe
07-06-2006, 08:20 AM
Mike

I agree with you . The more you study this fight the more you realize everyone know of Dempseys strength and willingness to win . He was not some new comer who droped out of the sky .

Kid Achilles
07-14-2006, 04:37 PM
Mike I have heard many stories about Firpo and his great strength and mastadon structure. I've even heard a story that before he turned to boxing, he worked in a slaughterhouse as a knocker and was known from time to time to employ his right fist for the job rather than the heavy sledgehammer they used in those days. If the story is true, he really was a beast. Even if not, Firpo was certainly a formidable George Foreman type figure in the 1920's.

Do you have the picture of Firpo and Marciano comparing fists? I would love to see that, or any other photographs indicating Firpo's huge bone structure.

mike
07-15-2006, 03:01 PM
yes i do --but i do not own a computer and would not know how to do so. firpo hand enormous hands and wrists. even marciano was startled. marciano said-" people tell me i have big hands- buts this guys paws make mine look like a midgets ". one of the scribes seeing this square off remarked"now after seeing this huge man with fists of hams i find it all the more remarkable that dempsey could climb back in the ring and fifsh him off." if a man could ko a bull, firpo could. huge bone structure.--wish i could post it for the kid achilles-youd enjoy it.

mike
07-15-2006, 03:13 PM
kid- firpo had neanterthal bone stucture--hid fists were about twice the sixe of marcianos. firpo was noted for his huge primitive bone structure and wiched right hand. but dempseys arm bone structure was huge also refferred to as "gorilla like" simian arms.