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View Full Version : Ken Norton v. Evander Holyfield



Mr E
08-04-2005, 07:21 PM
I'm not a huge fan of Ken Norton, but styles make fights and I think Kenny matches up well against the Real Deal. Thoughts?

Hagler04
08-05-2005, 12:15 AM
Norton in a close decision.

Exciting matchup. Holyfield has his flurries of heart late in fights but Norton actually had the better stamina, which I think would be the difference.

robertk
08-06-2005, 12:49 PM
I really really like norton in this one. TKO12. Like the reasons above, plus a style advantage. And with norton, his matchups are always about styles.

I tend to think evander is going to have a tough time trying to solve that norton defense. And in the meantime, I think that underrated jab of norton is going to land a lot. It came from an oddball angle and the guy had deceptively long arms. It was stiff and accurate. And Evander can be controlled by a good jab.

I also think the bodywork of norton pays dividends in this. There hasn't been a more dedicated heavyweight bodypuncher since. A hard 2 handed attack and I think Evander absorbs much better to the head than he ever did to the breadbasket. Evander's conditioning and competitve spirit would see him hang in there quite awhile, but I think kenny lands one of those big looping rights late in the fight after a ton of body damage. It'd be a fun fight to watch.

Death King
08-06-2005, 01:31 PM
I wouls say Evander Holyfield, because he is a very good boxer who could take a punch. and he could crack as well. I don't think Norton, could show Evander Holyfield, anything new because Evander Holyfield has seen it all.

walsh b
08-08-2005, 04:59 AM
Holyfield was special and it's hard to see many beating him at Heavy, but his lack of a real KO punch would allow Norton to go the distance....so it's a case of who is the busier. And Norton had great stamina and was very busy, as was Evander. I see a very close decision for Holyfield, he had real championship heart.....

StingerKarl
08-08-2005, 11:54 PM
I see Kenny as just too big and strong for Holyfield.
Norton wins a great fight.
Karl

crold1
08-09-2005, 01:57 AM
Both were inconsistent, but the young Evander had an insane workrate and underrated boxing skills. Evander on points in a brutal affair

blv30
09-27-2005, 07:05 PM
Norton would win by late round stoppage or unanimous decision.I don't feel that Evander would walk through Ken and solve that defense.

gazot
02-20-2007, 10:28 AM
A great matchup and I have no idea who wins. Which is why I posted it!

SageBrush
02-20-2007, 03:33 PM
Physically they match up Extremely Well and few can say that when compared to these two. both starting at the lower 200's and ending up approx 220's give or take a pound or two, and i'm sure Norton would not perceive Holyfield to be the One-Shot threat of a shavers or a foreman and if thats the case Evanders in for a Hard Night.

But i think ulimately Evanders more precise Combinations should see him home, Great Boxers Ali, Holmes and Young, who would seek to stay at long range found Ken's Cross Armed defence a real problem to deal with from a distence, and found it hard to discourage Ken's Advance, However Holyfield as we know will be seeking to cross that No Man's Land, and peel off his combinations from up close, As against Foreman and Cooper, those Uppercut-Hooks which Evander often starts his barrages with would find themselves a target coming in under Kens Crossarm Defence, Lifting his head into Volley Valley, if you are willing to come up close and personal, and have the ability to peel off these Hard and Accurate Combo's, then Ken's troublesome Defence starts to take on a more Swiss Cheese appearence.

But Ken could and would be tenacious His Side on Jab may give Evander a lot of Distraction and could act as a somescreen for the Big Overhand Right Norton often liked to suprise opponents with, and he could conceiveably find Evender like Bert Cooper Did, I cant see Evander Blasting out Norton, or Norton being "Edgy" as he sometimes appeared with the Big Hitters, Norton will be Tenacious and I cant help thinking its a Full distence Give-an-Take going down to the wire,

But ultimately i can see Evanders more cultered attack Winning through for a close hardfought decision. Ken's sometimes looping Shots, may lend him to being countered and beaten to the punch by Evander, and Evanders footwork probably has the edge on Ken's, Would Evander utilise his Movement and Boxing Ability ? he may try to, but with Norton Attacking with big hooks, and perhaps trying to Target Evanders Body, Evander will do what Evander does, Meet Fire with Fire, I think that they both get badly singed in this match, with Evanders willingness and capability to Rally Back form Kens Pressure perhaps making Ken that little bit more cautious in his persuit then he was against mobile "Pure Boxers" in Ali, Young and Holmes, Evander by a Singed whisker for me, could be a split vote denial for Ken.

hawk5ins
02-20-2007, 03:42 PM
What Sage said.

Hawk

robertk
02-21-2007, 05:33 AM
I'll go with Norton. Either by decision or possibly a late stoppage.

I think Norton's jab does the trick. It's a deceptive but accurate and effective one. And lots of guys have bothered holyfield with that punch. I also give a nice edge to norton in the stamina department & the continued bodywork of Norton will slow holyfield down. If Norton was a headhunter he'd have little chance in this. But that jab followed up by a 2 fisted body attack is going to be tough defensively for Holyfield to cope with. The accuracyof punches/conditioning/jab/2 handed bodywork is going to win the rounds for Norton--the way I see it. He may have to weather a storm or 2, but I think he builds the early lead and evander struggles to solve that oddball style & falls behind and gets outboxed.

It's possible the bodywork could drain that holyfield gastank and Kenny could catch him late w/ one of those looping rights up high and get the tko stoppage. The kind of shot holyfield shrugs off early but would be far more damaging late in a fight. Great fight to watch.

hagler04
02-21-2007, 10:59 AM
I'll go with Norton. Either by decision or possibly a late stoppage.

I think Norton's jab does the trick. It's a deceptive but accurate and effective one. And lots of guys have bothered holyfield with that punch. I also give a nice edge to norton in the stamina department & the continued bodywork of Norton will slow holyfield down. If Norton was a headhunter he'd have little chance in this. But that jab followed up by a 2 fisted body attack is going to be tough defensively for Holyfield to cope with. The accuracyof punches/conditioning/jab/2 handed bodywork is going to win the rounds for Norton--the way I see it. He may have to weather a storm or 2, but I think he builds the early lead and evander struggles to solve that oddball style & falls behind and gets outboxed.

It's possible the bodywork could drain that holyfield gastank and Kenny could catch him late w/ one of those looping rights up high and get the tko stoppage. The kind of shot holyfield shrugs off early but would be far more damaging late in a fight. Great fight to watch.

I agree with Robert. Norton would outjab Evander all night (a weapon Evander often struggled with) and wear him down with the body attack. I see the problems the light hitting Dokes gave Holyfield, and how Holyfield really had to take some rounds off to recuperate, allowing Dokes to flurry. But old Dokes had to take rounds off too, and eventually his old, drug-battled body gave way.

Norton wouldn't let Holyfield take time off . . .he'd be in his face all night, and be stronger late fight. I don't think Norton knocks Evander down, but he stuns him several times, and although Holyfield shows a few of those late-fight moments of magic, it's not enough and Norton comes away with a hard-fought decision.

Overhand_Right
02-21-2007, 01:30 PM
Considering this is best v best, i really dont think the Dokes fight is a good yard stick for Holyfield, who was only having his 3rd heavyweight fight, having met little resistance v severely shopworn Tillis and Thomas.

The guy who went to war with Bowe, Lewis, Mooer (II), Mercer etc i think is a little bit too much even for the best of Norton. He works him over late and even grinds him out for a TKO or wins a close but fair points nod.

hagler04
02-22-2007, 12:13 PM
Considering this is best v best, i really dont think the Dokes fight is a good yard stick for Holyfield, who was only having his 3rd heavyweight fight, having met little resistance v severely shopworn Tillis and Thomas.

The guy who went to war with Bowe, Lewis, Mooer (II), Mercer etc i think is a little bit too much even for the best of Norton. He works him over late and even grinds him out for a TKO or wins a close but fair points nod.

You think the Holyfield who fought Mercer, Lewis, and the Moorer rematch is better than the version who fought Dokes?

Strongly disagree there. The Holyfield of the mid-late 90s was even worse at taking rounds off and not being active enough.

Sharkey
02-22-2007, 02:59 PM
I'll side with Sage. Perhaps Norton would win more often than Evander if we took particular Kennys and Evanders from particular fights and matched them up...ignoring that neither was actually facing the other in those bouts we pluck them from.

I believe this contest becomes a calculating one at some point, where Norton is not firing blows with impugnity. Holyfield is more than strong enough to handle whatever physical loan-sharking Norton would desire. I also believe that since Evander was not a jab-first-all-the-time guy, he would be taking away from Norton what Norton loved to do: jab the jabbing boxer.

Holyfield uses the left hook well, and has the chin to handle Norton's sneaky right while thriving on countering Norton's advances. This has the potential for a gruelling dull bout with clinches or real fireworks.

JeffR
02-22-2007, 08:01 PM
"whatever physical loan-sharking Norton would desire."

Would you mind elaborating on exactly what this is supposed to mean?

Sharkey
02-23-2007, 08:56 AM
Not at all. I will do better than "supposed to" and define what it actually means.

Norton kept coming like a loan shark due his money.

Evander is strong enough to handle Norton's pressure.

As such, Norton will not bully Evander, and Evander will have his bearings.

Mr E
02-23-2007, 03:07 PM
I agree with Robert. Norton would outjab Evander all night (a weapon Evander often struggled with) and wear him down with the body attack. I see the problems the light hitting Dokes gave Holyfield, and how Holyfield really had to take some rounds off to recuperate, allowing Dokes to flurry. But old Dokes had to take rounds off too, and eventually his old, drug-battled body gave way.

Norton wouldn't let Holyfield take time off . . .he'd be in his face all night, and be stronger late fight. I don't think Norton knocks Evander down, but he stuns him several times, and although Holyfield shows a few of those late-fight moments of magic, it's not enough and Norton comes away with a hard-fought decision.

I agree with robertK and hagler04 here. No question that Holyfield was the greater over-all fighter, but I think this would have been a good match-up for Kenny for the reasons stated.

Dino1
08-02-2010, 12:41 PM
Perhaps two of the best physiques ever. Close one. I go with Norton. Unless you were a really big puncher like Foreman, Cooney, or Shavers, Ken usually had your number. Norton gave Holmes a heck of a fight and I personally thought he won the third Ali fight.

walshb
08-02-2010, 01:36 PM
Perhaps two of the best physiques ever. Close one. I go with Norton. Unless you were a really big puncher like Foreman, Cooney, or Shavers, Ken usually had your number. Norton gave Holmes a heck of a fight and I personally thought he won the third Ali fight.
Yeah, Norton was very bothersome for guys who could not KO him.

I think Norton survives Holy's best and earns a close decision. But, Holyfield could be the one landing the more noticeable and effective shots. A KO for Holy wouldn't be a shock, but I think he doesn't get it

sr71ko
08-02-2010, 02:38 PM
Norton was a good heavyweight, but lost to the huge punchers. Norton's chin was unpredictable. May be better than given credit for. Holyfield at heavyweight was completely inconsistent. Had all the heart, decent power, good strength, great chin, but performances including so-called fatigue late in fights would be troubling. This fight would depend on what Holyfield showed up..... the best would win may be a narrow split decision over Norton. I give Holyfield the edge only because of his better chin. You can make a strong case favoring Norton. The soft chinned Moorer beat Holyfield in the first fight.

Dino1
08-02-2010, 03:08 PM
I can't see Holyfield hurting Norton.

Elwill7847
08-02-2010, 10:55 PM
I'd take Holyfield over Norton in a very good fight.

Dino1
08-03-2010, 07:49 AM
Norton took some pretty good shots from Quarry, Holmes, and Ali and was also a good body puncher (he landed some wicked ones on Holmes). I don't think Evander punched harder than Quarry or Holmes. I realize that Quarry was a little past it when they fought but he could still punch and had some moments in that fight.

hagler04
08-03-2010, 10:05 AM
I agree . . Norton's chin was much better than given credit for. Even though Ali and Holmes were not monster hitters, they could bang when they set their feet and Norton ate their shots like popcorn. Also took some big hits from Garcia in the rematch, Quarry, and others who could wack. I hate how people dismiss him vs any puncher b/c he lost to peak Foreman and Shavers, two of the hardest hitters EVER.

I have Norton beating Holyfield with his active jab, better stamina, and consistent body work. It would be competitive but I see Evander gettting tagged with the bigger shots and fatiguing late.

hawk5ins
08-03-2010, 10:09 AM
COULD hurt Norton. I'm simply not certain he WOULD.

This is a tough pick for me.

May be leaning slightly towards Evander on this bout.

Pick em, for me.

Hawk

JaKob
08-05-2010, 04:51 AM
Wow. Fireworks in this matchup. Norton was so strong and athletic... and he used these traits to apply smothering pressure with a real arkward style. If you cant keep him off he is a nightmare. Rough night for Holy. Cant make a pick with confidence... that being said Holy by the smallest of margins.