View Full Version : Tyson vs frazier
07-14-2005, 09:04 PM
How about Mike tyson vs Joe Frazier , who would win an how ?
07-15-2005, 01:01 AM
Tyson never could cope with adversity, he always caved because he was a front runner with the heart the size of a raisin. If you wern't intimidated he had problems.
No one ever intimidated Smokin' Joe.
07-15-2005, 03:02 AM
I keep telling my son what I know of Joe Frazier in this matchup which I talked about for years with my son.
I always went with Frazier at 205 against Mike at 218 on the unbelievable one of a kind heart Joe had. Smoke would make it very tough and would not have the problems he had with 6'3" Foreman by not being able to hit him at all.
Hit Tyson back he would Yoda says. Mike would get what Holyfield gave him but up close with Joe's head on his chest and Joe slipping a lot of shots. Joe would catch it too but man could he take a wallop to the chops and keep on ticking.
I don't underestimate Iron Mike in his hey day which we all remember at it's destructive best, but we also remember Joe Frazier at his destructive best too. His heart, work rate, fighting through pain is soooo far beyond what Mike has inside him it isn't even funny.
Mike really got his plough cleaned by Holyfield, Douglas and what he did after those losses says a lot. Joe was a never say die man with tremendous pride and a far cry form any street punk gansta crap, he was a real blue collar hard working tough man, with a left hook that found it's way into every deep part of the guts of his opponents non stop.
He makes Mike quit before 12 rounds are over. He makes him wish he wasn't there after 4 rounds of hell.
07-15-2005, 04:12 AM
I don't agree Gor. A lot of people find it too easy to throw around the 'insult' that Tyson lacked heart and guts. Fair enough, during his 2nd outing as a heavy (after prison), he had diminished so much in every aspect as a person and fighter. He hadnt got the hunger, desire or even skills he previously had in the late 80's. I'm assuming we're talking about them fighting at their peaks. Tyson's peak, he had everything...including a great heart, chin and guts. He proved this against some real tough opposition. He also showed he could go the full 12rds when needed....I'd pick him to KO Joe about rd 4......
07-15-2005, 11:59 AM
When did Tyson prove the ability to overcome adversity in his prime walsh?? Against a one-handed Tony Tucker???
I see this fight going two ways . . .if Futch or Durham gets Joe to box a little more in the first few rounds as he did in Foreman 2 and then start smoking in rounds 3-4, then I favor Frazier. If Joe just goes to toe-to-toe war with Tyson in the first few rounds. he might get hurt very badly and not fully recover. Then again, Mike's lack of inside-ability could cost him there too as it did against Holyfield. But overall, if Joe comes out as he usually does early, I see him getting out-shot in a firefight by the bigger two-handed puncher.
07-15-2005, 01:37 PM
I'll go with Tyson on this one.A young Tyson should be able to handle Joe.Tyson's hand speed would determine the outcome.
07-15-2005, 02:01 PM
My son Brett age 31, who is a boxing instructor also, agrees with the pick on Tyson.
He felt that Tyson in his prime would beat Liston, Frazier, Louis and Marciano. He felt his handspeed, punching power and mental attitude, plus his fast starts would get them all.
You think we disagree on fights here, stop over my house.
07-15-2005, 02:46 PM
Tyson would have to get him early, or he's had it.
Tyson would be slowed down immediately by Joe's body shots. It would resemble Frazier-Quarry 1 with Mike quitting after 7 or 8 rounds.
09-22-2005, 07:19 AM
A war. Six brutal rounds, both men down once, then Tyson wins by TKO.
09-22-2005, 10:57 AM
First off, Its Probably a three round Minefield for Joe, and if he can come through this section unscathed then i dont think Mike is going to do anything to a Smoking Joe late, that he couldnt do to a Smouldering Joe Early !
Often in Joes career he was ratteled Early, beit, Bonavena, Ramos, Stander, Ali (2nd) But Mike would not be facing the emerging Talent, or the Faded Version, But presumably the Mar 8th 1971 Peak Pressure-Hooker who was a very rhymatic, Suffocating, relentless, Snorting, ripping, triple-hooking dynamo of perpetual motion
( Phew ! guess you know who i favour already !?) ,
Against the Generally aknowledged peak Tyson of the Spinks Fight, ? this Tyson, given their respective aggresive styles, albeit with slightly differant applications, is certainly capable of catching Joe Early, and if so, pouring on such a ferocious avalance of powershots, that Joe could be swept aside in quick brutal fashion, he would certainly have a nice weight advantage, with a fair poportion of Joes weight in his lower half, and two handed hitting power, but the thing that bothers be about Mike, is that at that young age he had enjoyed things so very much his own way that would he not be in danger of mental implosion should he start to get Bullied himself ?? if the older, more mature Tyson could have a Mental Wobble or two how would this young ManChild cope with this TRUE Rhino of a fighter on his chest Eyes Glowing with the sheer enjoyment of battle ??
Tyson quite often has his feet too close together so can be forced to the ropes, and indeed often did not work when opponents were on his chest, as Joe would seek to be, once tiredness Creeps into tyson Joe would probably go into a snorting, Ripping overdrive of Left Hooking, and i fear the Tyson confidence may crumble, and the cracks may start to become fissures...?
So does Joe make it throught the first three rounds Minefield ?? It would be frought with danger against Tyson, but with Mike at ?22 -23 ? against a 27-28 Year old Joe, their could be an element of Man against Petulent Boy here , ? i would go with Joe for a ninth round grinding down of Tyson - BUT NOT WITH MONEY !!
I think its too easy so say because Foreman did this so would Tyson, Foreman was Tall with a Very Heavy Left Jab, and of course those long arms helped to Push Joe Back, Not withstanding this was not the Joe of Mar 8 1971 ( Probably no differance against Foremam ) but unlike Foreman, Tyson will be within range of Joes Shots when seeking to land his own, Also on the inside, never mentioned (Appreciated ?) by evaluators, is just what a nasty little weapon Joe's inside "Jolt Jab" could be, Quite often when faced with a fellow infighter you would see his oppnents head repeatedly Jerk up , that was joes inside Jolt Jab, a six-nine inch shot quite often used to lift the head into position for the hook, and Tyson often lets incoming abate before firing back, this little inside punch could prove a distracting thorn in his side/ face ?
It certainly did no favours to to Quarry Chuvalo and Stander so could have a contribution to make, of course Joe does not want to walk onto a Botha type right hand , so i still would say its a case of Tyson Early and Frazier Late, and i may be letting my heart overide my head somewhat, but with Joe not being Mike's usual intimidated Fare, and Joe having a real zest for some Trench warfare, i think if it comes down to a battle of wills Joe will not be found wanting, and he has the drive and stamina that should tyson not win early and it develops into a war of attrition, joe would have to be my pick
A Great Fighter Beating a Great "On Top" Fighter - I'd fancy the upset.
09-22-2005, 04:14 PM
The Joe Frazier who fought Jimmy Ellis the first time and the won who fought Ali the first time was some kind of fighter. MIke Tyson has the highlight films but he isnt and never was in any fight the fighter Joe was in those two bouts. I go with Joe Frazier to give out a beating.
09-22-2005, 06:49 PM
Most of here myself included i think have very little respect for Tyson. He never conducted himself as we feel a Champion should. He has time and time again let people down and at times behaved like a punk.
But lets be honest at one time this young man was a managers dream and he did look like becoming maybe the greatest HW in the history of boxing. I have to say in his favour they were not all bums he fought on his quest for the Title no worse or better then many of the other HW Champions. Cast your minds back, Just like me at the time were you on the edge of your seats and just waiting for the bell to sound to let this ferocious killer beast of his chain and at his victim
This is a different ball game now for Joe Frazier going into the ring with Tyson then Ali. Ali had nothing to hold Joe of him meaning of course Ali's power was not going to stop Frazier's style of fighting.
Tyson in my opinion was probably the most devesting 4 round fighter the HW division has ever seen. He also had i think a very good chin and could take Frazier's punches but the question is could Frazier in the early round survive Tyson's early onslaught. If Joe could somehow take the young peak Tyson into the later rounds. Then yes, i can see Tyson getting disheartened as the flaws in his character started to show and the fight turning strongly in Joe's favour.
I love Joe Frazier who had so much guts and gave all he had, but and i hate to say this i can see Tyson blowing Frazier away in the very early rounds. I would so love to be wrong in my prediction here but i fear not.
09-23-2005, 01:55 AM
well if i can simplify a fight like this by taking them both at their best....i have to go with tyson....2 hands to 1.
09-23-2005, 11:27 PM
That Joe was a one handed fighter is a myth ... If you need an example check out the 2nd Quarry fight be busted up & beat the crap out of Quarry with his right hand.
NOBODY becomes a great fighter if he's just a one handed fighter.
09-24-2005, 01:44 AM
it was still left hooks that did quarry in. frazier was a pro and of course he could throw a right. he just was not as efficient with both hands as tyson. i think that these days the tyson that fought berbick and spinks has been lost in the haze created by the "leg iron mike" transformation.
i think tyson and frazier would be another kingston for joe. down goes frazyah...down goes frazyah.....!!!!
09-25-2006, 06:25 AM
The only time Frazier fought someone with power close to Tysons he got knocked out in 2 rounds.
Heart is nice, but it wouldn't change the fact that Tyson started much quicker, had a 2 fisted attack, was much quicker, had way better skills complete with punching power that Fraziers jaw could never take.
09-25-2006, 08:44 PM
Tyson KOs Frazier because Frazier's style was made to order for him. Tyson was way faster, hit so hard that Frazier's chin couldn't take it, and Tyson would nail him with an amazing uppercut as Joe leaned forward as he often did. If Joe could last, he definitely had better condition and consistent punch output, but I just don't see him getting out of the early rounds with Mike.
09-26-2006, 02:30 PM
How do people think Joe Frazier would do in a fight against Marvis Frazier?
09-26-2006, 03:58 PM
Mike passing the gut check Joe is going to deliver on him.
Foreman pushed Frazier off and nailed him where Goerge's power range was. Tyson doesn't do that. And Joe is going to get inside on him. And Tyson is an aboslutely horrific inside fighter, especially given his build.
Joe does start slow, but still will be applying pressure on the inside. INSIDE Tyson either ties him up or he allows himself to be tied up. Frazier won't be tying anyone up and will mount his offense.
I see Tyson getting frustrated and repeatedly tying Joe up because he can't get Joe in the range he wants him at. Joe is TOO close.
Now scoff all you will at this, but certain things I just cited are undeniable. Go and watch fights of Tyson and see how often he either falls into a clinch or initiates a clinch when in Close. Joe is going to be in close and Tyson better understand that if he ties Frazier up, he better tie boht hands up cause Joe is going to whack the hell out of him with what ever free mitt he has.
Mike also does NOT push a fighter off to gain his comfort range. Like a Foreman, he wants his opponent at the end of his punches. UNLIKE Foreman, he will not push his opponent out to the range he wants him at.
Now most fighters are going to respect Tyson's power enough that they feel staying away form him, is the right tactic. And unless you are a skilled boxer with excellent defensive skills or a very strong puncher who will also be firing shots back at him, this tactic won't work. The thing is, Frazier, will never fall into this becuase he Only knows one gear to fight in and one area where he wants to be. Applying pressure on the inside.
Tyson is Not going to back up to give himself space and he's not going to push Joe off and he can't fight inside.
TO ME, this spells a recipe for Frazier taking it to Tyson on the inside and after about 5 rounds, he takes his heart and then ultimately, he takes Tyson out.
All the things that SEEM to be right for Tyson in this fight, are actually all wrong. Tyson does not do what Foreman does by creating space. And while Tyson may have a more powerful and faster hook than a Jerry Quarry, he can't fight on the inside like Quarry could and trade hooks with him. And in fact, he chooses not to.
Excellent bout, but it's Frazier all the way.
09-26-2006, 07:06 PM
i agree with much of what you said. mike is not a very good inside fighter very true. frazier is a great fighter no doubt but i like tyson because IMO when frazier comes charging in he WILL get hit ( most likely by an uppercut ), and i don't believe he has the chin to take the shot. i just don't think joe is quick enough to avoid getting nailed by mike coming in.
i would favor dempsey over tyson for the reasons you stated but IMO jack is much faster than joe, and has the chin to be able to withstand mike's punch
09-26-2006, 07:23 PM
Interesting thread. What a great matchup. I think a lot of Tyson's victories early in his career might have been predicated on opponent's fear of his speed and power. He had most of them beat psycologically before the first bell. Not in this case, Joe was too much man for him and certainly was not afraid to go to war. Mike's best shot, to me, is in his propensity for the quick ko. If Joe gets by the first couple rounds, which I think he does, he exposes the Mike we all know and love. lol
09-26-2006, 08:28 PM
I think Marvis would beat Joe. I mean he fought Tyson after all and started his career a few years after his dad ended his, which by default makes him more skilled and better conditioned. Boxing evolves, right Abbot?
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