12-03-2005, 01:43 PM
Per usual I will post updates & the results immediately upon the conclusion of the bouts. I will be watching an East Coast feed so if you're on the Left Coast read no further if you don't want to know the results ahead of time. I will be just posting the results on the undercard. I will do my best to give a round by round description of Taylor-Hopkins.

Please keep all discussion of this card to this thread. Redundant threads will be deleted.



12-03-2005, 09:26 PM
Thanks, can't wait.

Hitman Heitzie
12-03-2005, 10:49 PM
After an exciting 1st 3 rounds, this is turning into a sparring session, with Quartey conrolling Carlos Bojorquez from both inside and out, leading 7-1 on my card, no knockdowns. Carlos has neither the hand or footspeed to keep the pace Ike is setting.

12-03-2005, 10:50 PM
After 8 rounds Quartey-Bojorques has settled into a monotonous cadence. Breifly in the 3rd & 4th rounds Quartey got caught a couple of times when he dropped his hands & Bojorquez pommeled him a bit on the ropes.

But he has no hand speed or Ike might have been in trouble with the tortuously slow but persistent Mexican. Ike is basically jabbing him slowly into oblivion & pulling away after 8.


Hitman Heitzie
12-03-2005, 10:55 PM
Quartey TKO 10 Bojorquez with about 49 seconds remaining, no knockdowns. The stoppage by Joe Cortez not dubious, as Bojorquez had not won a round on anybody's card since the 3rd. The 1st half of the fight had some drame, the second half began to resemble Larry Holmes-Tex Cobb.

On a side note, this arena appears to still be largely empty. Let's hope it fills up.

12-03-2005, 10:56 PM
Joe Cortez finally stopped the fight with 49 seconds left in the 10th. Quartey kept grinding & kept beating Bojorquez down. Ike definitely looks slower & nowhere near as strong as he did in his salad says. If he had been fighting an opponent that was a little more skilled & had good hand speed I think Quartey would have been in real trouble.


12-03-2005, 11:26 PM
Vasquez comes out on fire & knocks Larios down early hitting him while he's down in his enthusiasm. Larios recovers well, survives & boxes well most of the rest of the round.


12-03-2005, 11:27 PM
Vasquez wins by TKO 3 after he opens up a ghastly gash over Oscar Larios' right eye. The cut was bad enough that the fight was stopped immediately.


12-04-2005, 12:13 AM
Early results from Las Vegas!

Saturday, December 3 2005

By Mike Sloan and Victor Perea at ringside from Fight News

Mandalay Bay Resort, Las Vegas, Nevada:
Unbeaten junior welterweight Demetrius Hopkins (22-0, 9 KOs) scored his third straight impressive KO against rugged Jesse Feliciano (13-5-2). A left hook followed by a devastating right uppercut finished the game but outgunned Feliciano at 2:23 of round four. The bout was immediately waved off as Feliciano crumpled to the deck.
Jr middle Joshua Clottey (28-1, 18 KOs) shut out Marcos Primera (19-12-2) over an uneventful ten rounds. Scores were 100-90, 100-90, 100-89. Clottey wins the interim version of the WBC Continental Americas title.
Jr middleweight Kofi Jantuah (30-2, 19 KOs) battered Donnie McCrary (13-3-1, 9 KOs) for three rounds before the bout was halted at the end of the third.
Welterweight Larry Mosley (15-1, 6 KOs) took down Jeremy Yelton (18-4, 9 KOs) with a hard body shot at 2:25 of round two.
Olympian jr welter Rock Allen (4-0, 4 KOs) dropped Calvin Pitts (3-5-1, 1 KO) twice in round two and the bout was halted at the end of the round.

12-04-2005, 12:27 AM
The third is a carbon copy of their first fight. Nothing much happend but JT is more active.


12-04-2005, 12:28 AM
Jtopkins starts mauling JT a bit & is more active but JT's jab is getting more accurate. Harold Lederman has JT ahead 3-0 & I can't disagree.


12-04-2005, 12:33 AM
Hop maintains a lot of motion but it doesn't go anywhere. He's just not letting his hands go. JT even muscles him with a well placed elbow to the neck & jaw to end the round.


12-04-2005, 12:44 AM
Jt is gaining confidense & is more willing to engage early. But Hop gets inside & starts mauling until JT backs ff & trys to box. Hop has finally gained the initiative.


12-04-2005, 12:45 AM
JT is seemingly fighting anxiously. Hop seems much more relaxed. Taylor wacks Hop with a good right as he flurries strongly to end the round. This is NOT a dynamic fight ...


Hitman Heitzie
12-04-2005, 01:01 AM
Bernard lands enough hard head punches to win the 12, but too little too late in my eyes. Jermain looked drained and then flurries furiously to end the 12th.
My card, Taylor 7-5, official decision pending.

12-04-2005, 01:02 AM
This DEFINITELY wasn't worth 50 plus buck (w/tax & surcharges).

UD 115-113 Taylor. I agree, though I had it 7-4-1


Hitman Heitzie
12-04-2005, 01:30 AM
After 3 rounds, I have Ike Quartey (continuing his comeback) leading Bojorquez 2 rounds to one in a sloppy but exciting brawl. Bojorquez may be best known for the fact that he beat an injured and aged Pernell Whitaker in what turned out to be the legend's lasst fight. It will take more to stop Bazooka but he seems game. Also, Bojorquez is unusual in that he has 6 draws on his record in less than 40 fights.

Hitman Heitzie
12-04-2005, 01:41 AM
After 6 I have Quartey up on Carlos Bojorques 5-1 and pulling away. Ike is getting his rhythm and landing power shots, esp the uppercut, with metronome consistency. Bojorques is game but bloody, pressing forward but not landing with as much regularity as Ike.

12-04-2005, 01:42 AM
I'm not buying it...I expect another close decisio...most likely going to Taylor as so many hate Hopkins...I hope Bernard kicks his ass.

12-04-2005, 03:07 AM
For the sake of between rounds brevity I will here to fore refer to Bernard & James as Hop & JT respectively.

Is it me or has this card - even with the early tko - has dragged on interminably? Gotta say that R. Kelly's, "Clap your hands y'all", as he sang the national anthem made me wanna puke ..


12-04-2005, 03:16 AM
JT comes out & immediately plays rough with Hop as he engages. The settle dow & begin to box. After the initial rough stuff the rest of the round was more measured like the first fight.


12-04-2005, 03:21 AM
Hop was his usual early rounds passive self. JT wa more aggressive & edged the round in my book. The first was the perfecvt example of an even round.


12-04-2005, 03:36 AM
In the 6th, Jt begins to overpower Hop with jabs the first half of the round. He's so far slowly taking over the fight

Hitman Heitzie
12-04-2005, 03:46 AM
Sorry I have been gone, snowplow blocked uor driveway and I had to shovel it out.
After 8 rounds, this resembles the 1st fight, and I have scored it similarly, with Taylor up 6-2, Bernard winning the last two rounds with hard inside punching.

12-04-2005, 03:49 AM
I guess Hop edged this one. Man there aint much bang for my 50 plus bucks ... It looks like 6-3 for JT.


12-04-2005, 03:51 AM
Hop is controlling the tempo now & clearly wins the 10th.


Hitman Heitzie
12-04-2005, 03:53 AM
Inside, Jermain keeps his head completely still and Hopkins lands hard punches to the head flush. Jermain needs to pick up the pace and get active again, and Hopkins may rue ONCE AGAIN giving away the 1st 4 rounds of the fight. But Hopkins has won every round since 6 on my card.

12-04-2005, 03:56 AM
Jt comes out & bombs Hop with a couple of rights & starts to pour it on for about a minute 'til the pace slows. Hop hits JT with a good hook at the end of the round but JT rallies strongly.


Hitman Heitzie
12-04-2005, 03:56 AM
Taylor siezes the moment and dominates the 11th, seeming to stun Bernard early with a big left hook to the head, then landing in combo to end the round.
After 11, 7-4 Taylor

12-04-2005, 04:00 AM
In the 12th Hop staggers JT early whose eye is swelling badly ... JT comes back with some big rights to keep Hop off of him ... Hop mauls & bounces until JT nails him with a good right at the end of the round.


Hitman Heitzie
12-04-2005, 04:02 AM
All 3 judges score 115-113 Jermain Taylor Wu12 Bernard Hopkins

12-04-2005, 04:05 AM
I didn't even consider buying as I pretty much figured it would be a replay of the first bout. I don't see how anyone can rank Hopkins in the top ten all time...on another site I stated that Hopkins might pick it up and throw a few more punches this time in three, or four rounds, but then he would go right back into his usual boring mode of throwing around 25, or 30 punches a round...how close was I on saying that?

12-04-2005, 04:07 AM
Also, is Hopkins still being a sore loser?

Hitman Heitzie
12-04-2005, 04:09 AM
Once again, Bernard thinks he was a second away from kocking Taylor out. Taylor did not look surprised that he won, unlike last time, and neither man was really bloodied. Bernard DID actually admit that Taylor "shook" him a couple of times, which is surprising. Of course, instead of blaming HBO & the judges, B-Hop can blame himself for not getting started until late in the fight.

12-04-2005, 04:09 AM
I'm glad that I didn't shell out good money to
see this card on PPV. It is my feeling that
Bernard Hopkins hasn't been in an exciting
fight in ages, so I am willing to wait and see
tape of the second bout between Hopkins
and Jermaine Taylor.

- Chuck Johnston

12-04-2005, 04:17 AM
Taylor Edges Hopkins Again
By Mike DeLisa

Middleweight Champion Jermain Taylor eked out a decision over Bernard Hopkins tonight at Mandalay Bay. All three judges scored it 115-113 for Taylor. But the real story is that for the second time, both fighters fought a timid, over-cautious bout.

Taylor seems to be improving as a champion, and used his left hook well at times. But the match-up of these two leads to ugliness.

Hopkins of course beleives he won the bout -- and I beleive he landed the better punches. But again he laid back too much and let Taylor control the pace.

Next week Winky Wright defends his Jr. Middle Title - Hopkins-Taylor will be rebroadcast that night.

If you think Taylor-Hopkins was slow, imagine Taylor-Wright.

Post-fight is about to begin -- more later.

12-04-2005, 04:18 AM
Thanks for the details everyone. I did not want to pay for this one either so it was nice to come back home and read the thread round by round. I didn't buy it the first time either; these two guys are a little too similar and the matchup lacks the spark of a dispute or clash of styles that the big fights should have. Thanks again.

Hitman Heitzie
12-04-2005, 04:19 AM
Max Kellerman thought Hopkins won
Emmanuel Stewart thought Taylor won.
This was almost a replay of the 1st fight, as you gys can probably tell. Unlike Kellerman I do not think it was an "awful" fight, but the best word for it would be "interesting" not a thriller by any stretch. "Awful" I would save for Tarver-Jones III or Byrd-Williamson.
This was more like Toney-McCallum II or maybe Nunn-Starling, not one you pull out the tape of to watch with casual friends.
I think Taylor should fight Winky Wright, who he should dominate with his physical edge, then move up to 168.
Hopkins should fight John Ruiz, or Jean-Marc Mormeck.The are no more compelling fight, or fights that can add to his legacy, at middleweight. And beating a 168-175 lb fighter would not make him more bankable (if anything would) or improve his stanind among all-time fighters.

12-04-2005, 04:19 AM
Gotta give it to BHop, he talks such a good game that he ropes me in every time like something amazing is going to happen and it other than with Tito it never does.

Call me a cynic but I don't like to see a torch pass silently.
For 2 pretty important fights they were completely forgettable. A few years ago BHop would have UD Taylor 9 out of 10 times. I was really hoping to see Taylor push BHops limits tonight but he is just not the guy to do that, maybe no one is. I think both fights should have been a draw.

I know Taylor will be better from these fights, I just hope they never bother for a p3.

12-04-2005, 04:41 AM
Hopkins is not in the same class as Hagler and Monzon. I don't subscribe to the theory that Hopkins wins if he starts earlier. The "Executioner" is more like the "Exasperator". I wonder what he says at the press conference. Who Knows, maybe he'll show a little class at the press conference.

12-04-2005, 05:09 AM
Class hasen't been Hopkins' strong point during his career. He clearly lost this fight. Max needs glasses sitting that far up in the arena.

It didn't matter if Hopkins started late, or early. Taylor was MUCH more fluid, with alot more confidence. He still got caught with those lead right hands, which everyone does. But, the difference is, Hopkins could not get away from the jab. Setting up overhand rights, alot of left hands, and ultimately, JT winning the fight. I still think Taylor respected him too much, and I really think in the 11th, Hopkins was KOable early, JT just didn't push the issue.

I didn't find many high points for Hopkins this fight, just a few good lead right hands. A couple good left hooks, some decent body shots. All pretty minimal on damage. Hopkins needed some flash tonight. He absolutley respected Taylor's jab tonight.

I personally had the fight 7-5.

12-04-2005, 05:20 AM
I had Hopkins. I was close, but Taylor faded earlier than he did in the first bout, and only a few times did he ever regain any real momentum.

12-04-2005, 08:09 AM
Fortunately, Dig, I think they'll spare us a third go. The CompuBox had Hopkins edging out Taylor, but they both did too little to even register a blip on my excitometer.

Off to bed for me. I was hoping Hopkins or Taylor would be counting some sheep earlier, but looks like it will be all up to Nicolay Valuev to fill up the Bleeder's Boxing Christmas stocking this year.

12-04-2005, 08:29 AM
I thought it was a terrible fight, and I too scored it a draw. If I had to give it to one or the other I think Hopkins would have just edged it, but you can only score each round as it comes, you can't give extra credit for the dominance a fighter shows in the rounds he wins.

Also, I don't think Taylor will be champ for anything like as long as Hop.

12-04-2005, 08:30 AM
It was a slow-paced, sometimes tactical, often boring fight. It was pretty much a carbon copy of the first one.

No question in my mind one thing stylistically threw Bernard Hopkins off his game: I think that Hopkins met a Middleweight in Jermain Taylor who is physically stronger than he is. On the inside it was Taylor who walked Hopkins backward and muscled him around. This didn't allow Hopkins to do his normal grind job on the inside, particularly early in the bout.

Personally, I had Hopkins winning this one 7-5 whereas in the first fight I had Taylor winning 7-5. I can't quibble with the decisions though. Rounds were won and lost in both of these fights over basically one punch per round. Both guys were so inactive and so economical with punches that one punch could literally decide the winner of the rounds. As in the first fight, the rounds that Bernard won he won more convincingly and he landed the harder punches. However, the action was so sparse that debating these decisions is like arguing with somebody about the pace of a snail race or the rate at which paint dries.

What difference does it make?

<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif" />

12-04-2005, 12:14 PM
I'm glad I did not pay for this one either....sounds like the same story as the first...Taylor's people, like the elastic faced, Two-Faced Lou, will spin it as a Taylor win...Hopkins will say he got robbed again..Merchant will mumble something bright while sounding old and burnt out about the division's new light. Then he'll get a drink ....no matter how you slice it, you feel a small bit as if Hopkins gets a short end...

Some champs through out history are loved and others are tolerated...Hopkins was ignored. Most of his reign was in obscurity.. no one outside of hardcore fight fans knew his name prior to Tito...then he blows his newly won public goodwill being Hopkins..stubborn, defiant, his behavior alienates...nothing loses the public like a guy making millions and bitching about it on TV in front of guys sweating out how to may their monthly bills and feed their kids...they just don't identify, especially for a cautious, strategic fighting middleweight champ without a knockout punch.

....Finally his Oscar night...huge $, huge coverage, a rare KO win and another monent in the sun...we feel good for him and almost forget he beat up a pudgy, part time fighter who saw his best days as a welterweight a dozen years earlier...Oscar was a rock star and Bernard again has a moment...his face is prominant on HBO's ebsite...he's in again...

...Unfortunatey, while still tough, he's a depreciated commodity, a very tough forty but a forty year old prizefighter nontheless....now after two razor thin decisions given to a much younger, medal wearing, intelligently promoted, television friendly, likeable and brave Taylor, he's yesterday's news and prefered to be that way by many...to most it's time to turn the page...

Hopkins in many ways reminds me of Larry Holmes...he never captured the public's imagination. He is not a huge puncher. His style was not exciting...He did not speak well. With narrow eyes and gapped teeth, he was not Disney character pretty like an Ali, Leonard or Taylor. He did not make us feel good. He was local news material...

All he did was win and win for a long time...Both are hard men, men who have guts and tons of moxie, both who would never quit in the ring..Both were also angry men, and they expressed this anger often and in inoppertune monents...they were not teflon men, , to most their anger was unattractive and defined them...life is not fair and memories of qualitive accomplishments seem to fade more often for some than for others...people remember moments that make them feel good and Hopkins like Holmes just did not generate the warm fuzzies for many.

The difference between the two to me is that Holmes was a top five all time heavyweight...I'm not sure Bernard was a top ten or fifteen middleweight despite the longivity. Bernard never beat a near great, let alone great middleweight...he lost to Jones, no question there. Other than that, who was the best fighter he fought and beat ? My answer is the blown up welter Tito. That does not make him an all time top guy to me no matter how consistent he was....

Right now it really does not matter. Benard will remain publically pissed off, saying he got jobbed, as a means of trying for another big fight...he is that smart. However, deep down I wonder how much he really cares. He has come so far from where he started...he has reformed his life. He has made a ton of money over the past few years...maybe, hopefully he will have found peace with himself...

The years to come will determine the type of man Bernard Hopkins really is...will he remain living a clean life or will he lose his moral compass without the title to anchor and identify himself by...I say this because I question his behavior during the DiBella lawsuits and acquisations...DiBella is no saint but I find it extremely hard to believe that he would squeeze anyone for kickbacks...he is too smart...

Anyway, time will tell. Maybe Bernard got jobbed again last night. Maybe not. I definately feel he deserved the first fight. Either way I do not mourn for him. He has made many millions and I have to get up in a snowstorm and go to work.

12-04-2005, 04:28 PM
I'm sure glad i did't buy this turkey.

Frank B.

Todd Hodgson
12-04-2005, 05:07 PM
MaxBoxing scored it 116-113 Hopkins.
Dan Rafael scored it 116-112 Taylor.
The AP scored it 115-114 Taylor.
The NY Daily News and boxingtalk.com had it a draw.

12-05-2005, 10:57 AM
Yeah, Gor, I guess you could say Hopkins fought "relaxed." That's a nice way of putting it. The first four rounds of this one? That's not boxing; that's staring. Once again, B-Hop did a little but not enough. He simply doesn't fight like a man trying to regain a title. He fights like a man trying to do just enough to win. And that ain't enough when you're 41 and at the end of the road. Overall, this fight (hell, this CARD) was a snooze. If they decide to "do it again," they can do it without me.

Hopkins has worn out his welcome with me. I hope he makes good on his promise to retire. I couldn't take another five years of these stinko, no-action fights.

12-05-2005, 10:58 AM
I actually had Hopkins winning 115-114 but thought it could go either way. Taylor did improve since the last fight. His jab was better and didn't have the stamina problems in the late rounds. It's obvious he was more confident going into this fight and probably accounts for the improved stamina. Yet it's still difficult for me to believe Taylor is the next dominate middleweight champion.

Hopkins said he was going into the fight with a 'Blue Horizon' attitude - man, fights must be pretty boring down there. Hopkins fought the same exact fight as the last time. I guess he expected that his politicing would influence the judges into giving him a close fight. It obviously did not work.

Anyway, I thought Hopkins pulled it out. Hopkins scored the more damaging blows. However, I can't really quibble with the results since I thought it could go either way.

I think these last two fights diminish Hopkins stature some. I've criticized Roy Jones Jr. for not showing enough heart and I think some of the same criticism can be leveled here. Hopkins was content to coast and jawbone to victory. He didn't try to seize the moment. However, some of this may be due to his age and he showed more heart in the past - like in the first Mercado fight.

12-05-2005, 08:12 PM
Taylor wins rematch by unanimous decision

By Dan Rafael

LAS VEGAS -- It was a near mirror image of their first encounter on July 16, with Jermain Taylor starting fast to dominate the first six rounds and Bernard Hopkins coming on over the last six rounds.

But in the end, Taylor held Hopkins off to win a razor close decision to retain the undisputed middleweight title on Saturday night before 10,621 at Mandalay Bay.

The main difference from the first fight, aside from the lack of controversy?

"The difference in this fight is that Bernard respected me a little more," Taylor said. "I came out in this fight determined to win. Taking nothing away from Bernard Hopkins, the man is an excellent fighter."

All three judges scored it 115-113 for Taylor. ESPN.com at ringside had it 116-112 for Taylor. Last time, Taylor won a split decision.

But there was no controversy like last time, when judge Duane Ford scored the 12th round for Taylor -- an obvious Hopkins round -- to turn what would have been a Hopkins draw into a Taylor victory.

I give myself a B this time. I won't give myself an A because I didn't knock him out. But I still won it and I'm taking the belts back to Arkansas. ”

— Jermain Taylor, grading his rematch victory over Bernard Hopkins

"I give myself a B this time," Taylor said. "I won't give myself an A because I didn't knock him out. But I still won it and I'm taking the belts back to Arkansas."

Hopkins (46-4-1) looked more of his 40 years than ever before. He could rarely get off combinations and resorted to one shot here and one shot there between wild charges at Taylor.

Still, Hopkins thought he won the fight, which HBO will replay next Saturday night (10 ET).

Even Ray Robinson won fights he didn't get (from the judges). I absolutely thought I won the fight. ”

— Bernard Hopkins on his rematch loss to Jermain Taylor

"Even Ray Robinson won fights he didn't get (from the judges)," Hopkins said. "I absolutely thought I won the fight.

"I was aggressive through the whole fight and I backed him up. I don't know how they could give him the fight. I definitely thought I won the fight. I don't know why they gave him all those early rounds. Every time he got tired in an exchange, he was holding and biding his time."

Aside from judge Patricia Morse Jarman scoring the fourth round for Hopkins, Taylor swept the first six rounds on all three cards.

AP Photo/Jae C. Hong
Taylor has handed Hopkins (left) two consecutive losses.

But like in July, Hopkins rallied.

"He's a very clever fighter and very difficult to hit," Taylor said. "You have to pull every trick in the book out to hit him. When I jabbed him once I knew he would come back at me, but when I double jabbed him I knew I was in a good situation. But he kept catching me with that right hand. I still have a lot of work to do."

Hopkins has now lost two in a row after a division-record 20 consecutive title defenses. He will turn 41 in January and is unsure whether or not he will fight again.

"I worked very hard throughout the fight and I feel as fresh as a daisy," Hopkins said, who was appearing in his 25th world title fight to Taylor's 25th pro fight.

"I'm going to sit down with everyone, mainly my family, and see what to do. But I am not looking to be around much longer."

Hopkins attempted to start faster than he did last time, charging after Taylor in the opening 30 seconds. But Taylor, 27, was prepared for the burst and nailed Hopkins with uppercuts and shots behind the head.

After that, Hopkins did virtually nothing for six rounds.

Taylor was dictating the pace as Hopkins was unwilling to engage. A left hook sent Hopkins stumbling across the ring at the end of the second round.

It was a close fight, but it shows you how skilled Hopkins is. He's a dirty fighter but he's friggin' brilliant. We all thought we won by two points, and the scores were how we thought it should go ”

— Lou DiBella, Taylor's promoter and former adviser to Hopkins

Finally, in the seventh and eighth rounds, Hopkins became more aggressive. He started landing more shots, including a crunching right hand just before the bell ended the ninth.

Taylor's left eye began to swell in the 11th, but he was not cut like he was last time -- although that was from a head butt.

With Taylor trainer Pat Burns and Hopkins' trainer Naazim Richardson each imploring his fighter to win the 12th round, the fighters came out looking to close the show.

Taylor landed a right hand early but Hopkins immediately responded. Taylor landed a three-punch combination that drove Hopkins into the ropes before the final bell sounded with both men thinking that they had won.

"It was somewhat similar to the first fight, but a little more clear cut," said Lou DiBella, Taylor's promoter and Hopkins' former adviser before a bitter falling out in late 2001.

"It was a close fight, but it shows you how skilled Hopkins is. He's a dirty fighter but he's friggin' brilliant. We all thought we won by two points, and the scores were how we thought it should go."

Dan Rafael is the boxing writer for ESPN.com.

12-05-2005, 08:48 PM
"'I worked very hard throughout the fight and I feel as fresh as a daisy," Hopkins said"

This seems to be the problem. If Hopkins really did work hard throughout the fight, I don't believe he would feel as "fresh as a daisy." During the first fight, Merchant commented that watching Hopkins fight was like 'watching a guy swim laps.' Hopkins really needed to turn it up to win decisively. Instead, he expected to jog his way to victory. Maybe Hopkins didn't want it bad enough.

12-05-2005, 09:58 PM
Maybe Hoskins feels that playing it close to the vest, gave him the best chance of winning. Perhaps, he felt that if he opened up he would have been overpowered, and perhaps stopped.

12-06-2005, 03:49 AM
Hopkins knew he was overpowered 20 secondsinto the fight when Taylor got warned in the 1st round. He knew he was over powered 3 months ago in the last fight.

Hopkins knew he could not allow himself to become busy or completely wide open, because Taylor is just too much for him to handle. His best bet was to do exactly what he did. 1, 2 punches at a time, stealing rounds with good defense.

Is Taylor pushes the issue in the 11th, Hopkins does down anyway. Taylor had him hurt, he just was too cautious and didn't go after him. In my mind, the winner was clear.

12-06-2005, 04:16 PM
Taylor-Hopkins II: And Still?
by Phil Woolever from Sweet Science

LAS VEGAS – Sometimes controversy is as clear as things will ever get.

Jermain Taylor and Bernard Hopkins could fight all they want and it would probably always be close and disputed. That's not to say it would always be thrilling. Taylor successfully held on to his middleweight title, but if you listened to the people from ringside to rafter at Mandalay Bay arena whether he proved to be the better fighter tonight is still highly debatable.

All judges (Dave Moretti, Chuck Giampa, Patricia Morse Jarman) saw it at 115-113 for the defending champion.

The result was less clear to the rest of us. An informal exit poll showed equal support for each side. Maybe the question is whether or not Hopkins did enough to take the unified belts. The intangible edge said to favor a champ may have been the only margin of victory Taylor had. Such an edge is not actually supposed to exist on the scorecards.

The fact remains that as of now Taylor owns two victories over Hopkins where it counts, in the record book. How the narrow margin translates in terms of Taylor's public persona remains to be seen. Taylor will have plenty of chances to further prove himself.

"He didn't come out like he did in the first fight," said an unmarked Taylor, "I was determined to win, but I've still got a lot of work to do. He kept catching me with that right hand."

For Hopkins, time and how to spend it may be much more hazy.

'Everybody saw it," said Hopkins, also unmarked. "I thought I won the majority of rounds. I'm proud of myself. I stayed there and countered. He was told to grab me any time he was hurt and that's what he did. I was getting stronger as the fight went on."

The big question now is what Hopkins will elect to do once tonight's result and any subsequent fallout sinks in. Hopkins indicated it was time to think about his promise to his mom to retire by his 41st birthday in January. Right now that's a pick 'em over/under if there ever was one.

"My career has been tremendous," said Hopkins accurately, "I don't have anything to be mad about. I've changed my whole life and become a role model. Nobody can box forever. I've got good friends and good business partners. It's time to pass the torch, whether it's next year in January or right now."

There were signs before, during, and after the bout that Hopkins's star power was waning.

Hundreds of patrons showed up at the weigh-in and it sounded like they were all for the new champion. Hopkins garnered some polite applause, but as Taylor approached the scales there was loud encouragement and "Soo-eey Razorbacks" calls and response from across the bleachers.

It seemed like Hopkins, 160, was continuing a slow burn as he stared intently ahead, looking as if he refused to acknowledge that Taylor, 159, even existed.

Both men came in very strong. With pros like Hopkins and Taylor, there remained no pre-fight controversy besides which amazing athlete was superior. Bernard's arms and deltoid area looked like he had been throwing a lot of heavy leather in training, but Taylor looked just as strong.

The odds stayed close in the final days before the fight, with late cash rolling in on Taylor to make him a slight favorite by a few dimes. You could win an extra fiddy cent or so for every buck you put down on Hopkins.

It was a busy weekend with an even more eclectic swarm than usual in town for the fight. There was the National Finals Rodeo and Las Vegas Marathon, and many came in full respective regalias, which conjured strange images of characters running into some neon saloon for a gigantic brawl.

If it sounds like some zany cinematic creation, well, there was plenty of true Hollywood too, as clips for the 6th "Rocky" installment were filmed around the real fight events.

The fight may not have been a sellout, but it was close, with an announced crowd of 10,621.

Like the initial encounter last July, it was not a classic battle by any means. At first, there were as many clinches as punches. There were isolated chants of "JT" and "B-Hop" but they were no more sustained than the few fistic flurries.

They feinted, then feinted some more. In some sessions, just a handful of leather landed for either man. Once again, Taylor built an early lead and Hopkins came back. Down the stretch it was up for grabs.

Hopkins started to find the range with rights by the fifth round. Taylor was more composed than before, and used his stiff jab to keep a comfort zone he enjoyed. Hopkins got more aggressive in the middle frames, and when Taylor looked frustrated in round seven it seemed as if the tide had turned for Hopkins.

But Taylor has definitely learned since the first time. He kept throwing punches whether they were holding against the ropes or waltzing at mid-ring. That little difference of staying busy instead of giving ground may have been Taylor's margin of victory.

Even considering the elite skill level, it was still a chess match with few thumping consequences. A draw would not have been unjust.

"He's a great fighter for his age," said Taylor without sarcasm. For Hopkins, it's an age that may have passed.

"I'd like to thank everybody that's supported me over the past 18 years," said Hopkins,

"You've got champions and you've got People's Champions. As they look at my archives, I'll have that respect until the day I die. Tomorrow the world will be buzzing about this, then it will be 2006 and we'll see what happens."

For Taylor, it may have been time to party like New Year's Eve. For Hopkins it may be Auld Lang Sine.

In the cold, predawn hours after the fight there were fireworks for the start of the marathon, set off in the dirt across the Strip from where the fight had been. An echo of thunder shook the gold Plexiglas towers at Mandalay Bay.

The sound could also be a brilliant, starter's gun symbol of the emerging future for Jermain Taylor. Or it could be a signal of the blasts that have passed, in his own long run, for Bernard Hopkins.

12-06-2005, 04:20 PM
Hopkins confident with legacy

By Jeff Haney
Las Vegas Sun

Although he lost both of them, Bernard Hopkins believes his two bouts this year with Jermain Taylor will help shape his legacy and define his career as one of the most distinguished in the history of boxing's middleweight division.

"The two fights will be analyzed in boxing as the years go by," Hopkins said after dropping a close but unanimous decision to Taylor on Saturday night at the Mandalay Bay Events Center.

"They will look at (how) Bernard Hopkins fought 24 rounds" against a much younger opponent, yet "did enough to prove he could be champion."

Hopkins, who turns 41 next month, sustained his first loss in 12 years to Taylor in July at the MGM Grand, a split decision Hopkins viciously disputed. In the stretch since his previous defeat, to Roy Jones Jr. in 1993, Hopkins had owned the middleweight class.

In Saturday's rematch, Taylor, 27, withstood an extended rally by Hopkins in the second half of the fight to retain his world middleweight title. All three judges scored the 12-rounder 115-113. The Sun's scorecard also had it 115-113 for Taylor.

"Hopkins is a very clever fighter," Taylor (25-0, 17 knockouts) said. "He's very difficult to hit. I give him a lot of credit."

Taylor's promoter Lou DiBella, who has an acrimonious relationship with Hopkins, was impressed by Hopkins' performance in what was likely the last big fight of his career.

"The old man can still fight his (behind) off," DiBella said. "But I thought the scoring was fair. I thought the kid (Taylor) fought a smarter fight."

Oscar De La Hoya, who co-promoted the fight under his Golden Boy Promotions banner, said he had Hopkins winning a close decision.

"You have to admire Hopkins," De La Hoya said. "I was thinking, this guy is 40 years old? Unbelievable."

After their back-to-back encounters in Las Vegas, Taylor and Hopkins will probably take on lesser opponents in their next bouts in their hometowns.

For Hopkins, that could mean a farewell fight in his native Philadelphia, and for Taylor a homecoming in Little Rock, Ark., to celebrate his coronation as middleweight champ. After that, a megafight against former 154-pound champ Winky Wright is a possibility.

Any fighter hoping to approach Hopkins' long run atop the division had better be an ascetic like himself, Hopkins (46-4-1, 32 KOs) said.

Most boxers stop worrying about those "two or three extra pounds" they gain as they age, Hopkins said.

"It's hard for an individual to maintain that (focus) year after year after year," he said.

The tempo of Saturday's rematch mirrored that of the first fight, with Taylor dominating the early rounds on the judges' cards and Hopkins dictating a more frenetic pace in the final six rounds.

The difference came in the 11th round, which Taylor swept on the scorecards, using his jab to set up stinging combinations and straight rights.

"When I went back to the corner (before the 11th), coach (trainer Pat Burns) said, you gotta pick it up," Taylor said. "I probably overexerted myself, but I gave it all I had, man."

Hopkins sent mixed signals in an interview after the fight, at times sounding wistful and nostalgic about his 17-year pro career drawing to a close, but then speculating about pursuing a "dream match" against light heavyweight star Antonio Tarver.

On a night his own fighter proved any doubters wrong about his rightful claim to the middleweight crown, DiBella had a fitting epilogue for the former champion.

"Bernard will be remembered as one of the craftiest, smartest, dirtiest, and one of the greatest middleweights of all time," he said.

12-06-2005, 09:58 PM
I say enough with the "controversy" (boxing addicts' attempt to drum up interest in a humdrum fight) already.

Bernard, take your money and don't let the screen door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

12-07-2005, 11:02 AM
Bernard is becoming a Mike McCallum of sorts fromlate in Mike's career......a very tough old guy who one longer has the weapons to dominate the best but will be a tough struggle for many ... he can be this way for a while..he will stay around as long as HBO televises him...another fight or two...then they will lose interest since without the title he is simply a very tough, old but boring fighter...

12-07-2005, 01:50 PM
Hopkins the trial horse, in full "survival" mode...Shoot me now, please.

12-08-2005, 09:51 PM
Hopkins-Taylor 410,000 buys

Thursday, December 8 2005

HBO Sports reported today that 410,000 pay-per-view buys and $ 20.9 million in pay-per-view revenue was generated from last Saturday’s Jermain Taylor-Bernard Hopkins world middleweight title rematch in Las Vegas. The fight was promoted by DiBella Entertainment and Golden Boy Promotions and was held at the Mandalay Bay Events Center in Las Vegas. The 410,000 buys consisted of 245,000 buys from cable systems and 165,000 buys from satellite homes throughout the United States. The pay-per-view performance of Taylor vs.Hopkins 2 outperformed their first pay-per-view encounter last July 16 when the fight produced 370,000 buys and $18.7 million in revenue.
Taylor vs. Hopkins 2 will be replayed on HBO on Saturday, Dec. 10 at 10:00 p.m. ET/ 7:00 p.m. PT and will be coupled with the live middleweight fight from Connecticut as Winky Wright meets Sam Soliman in a 12-round showdown.

12-09-2005, 03:00 AM
How much money did both fighters make?

12-09-2005, 02:29 PM
Rematch might be second only to Wright-Trinidad
By Dan Rafael

The last major fight of the year, the Dec. 3 Jermain Taylor-Bernard Hopkins rematch, performed like a champ on pay-per-view.

HBO reported Thursday that the fight, which Taylor won via close unanimous decision at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas, generated 410,000 domestic pay-per-view buys and $20.9 million in gross revenue. The breakdown of buys were 245,000 on cable systems and 165,000 on satellite dishes.

2005 HBO PPV Fights
Fight&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Date&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Buys
Wright-Trinidad&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp May 14&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 520,000
Tarver-Jones III&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Oct. 1&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 415,000
Taylor-Hopkins II&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Dec. 3&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 410,000
Hopkins-Taylor I&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp July 16&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 370,000
Gatti-Mayweather&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp June 25&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 360,000
Morales-Pacquiao&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp March 19&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 340,000
Barrera-Peden&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Sept. 17&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 110,000
Barrera-Fana&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp April 11&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 75,000

The announced number is a preliminary figure that is expected to rise once all the buys are tallied.

The rematch is the third-best selling pay-per-view boxing event of the year, trailing only Winy Wright's dominant decision against Felix Trinidad in May (520,000 buys) and the third Antonio Tarver-Roy Jones fight from October (415,000 buys). Those were also HBO PPV events.

"With their first fight in July, Taylor and Hopkins established a great middleweight rivalry," HBO PPV's Mark Taffet said. "We're pleased that the pay-per-view audience recognized that with their support of the rematch."

Once all the buys are accounted for, Taylor-Hopkins II probably will surpass Tarver-Jones III, Taffet said.

"We have every expectation that Taylor-Hopkins II will be the second-highest grossing pay-per-view event of the year when the dust settles and the numbers are fully reported," Taffet said.

The first Taylor-Hopkins fight on July 16 generated 370,000 buys and $18.7 million.

Taylor-Hopkins II will be replayed Saturday night (HBO, 10 ET) along with a live broadcast of middleweight Winky Wright vs. Sam Soliman. If Wright wins, he is the next logical big-name opponent for Taylor.

HBO produced and distributed eight pay-per-view events this year totaling 2.6 million buys. A ninth fight, the Vitali Klitschko-Hasim Rahman heavyweight championship bout scheduled for Nov. 12, was canceled because of an injury to Klitschko.

None of HBO PPV's fights, however, crossed into the 750,000-plus stratosphere.

"This was a very interesting year for HBO PPV," Taffet said.

"We exceeded expectations on virtually every fight that we distributed," he said. "Yet, the year went by without a true mega fight by historical standards. It's our hope that the promoters and the fighters, while pleased with the revenues that were generated this year, will also recognize the importance of having compelling fights featuring the best fighters in the sport live on HBO to set the stage for the million-buy fights we've all grown accustomed to."

12-09-2005, 03:40 PM
That just go to show you that you can fool most of the people
most of the time

Frank B.

12-09-2005, 05:20 PM
A number of the listed 2005 HBO PPV main events
were even matchups on paper, notably Winky
Wright vs. Felix Trinidad, Jermaine Taylor vs.
Bernard Hopkins I and II, and Erik Morales vs.
Manny Pacquiao; but of ALL of the listed main
events, only Morales vs. Pacquiao was exciting.
By the way, the HBO PPV figures show that
there still are plenty of non-Latino boxing fans.

I read somewhere that the second bout between
Jose Luis Castillo and Diego Corrales drew about
225,000 buys on Showtime PPV. Why are more
people shelling out money to see Taylor vs. Hopkins
than Castillo vs. Corrales? After all, Castillo vs.
Corrales I served up much, much more action
than Taylor vs. Hopkins I, let Taylor vs. Hopkins II.
By the way.....it is my understanding that Castillo-
Corrales III is not a PPV event.

- Chuck Johnston

12-10-2005, 11:31 AM
Oddly enough, not one of those fights, nor one of those cards were worth a shit.

Probably, 70-80 million dollars gross in those events.

Quite obvious what boxing is all about these days.

12-10-2005, 12:45 PM
Forgettable PPVs for the most part. Even Pac/Morales (which I was anticipating the shit out) of fell a bit short.

This year was more like a testament to the loyalty & level of boredom of boxing fans this past year. At least Hatton/Tsyzu happened, that was probably the most significant boxing occurance of the year.

Walker Smith
12-10-2005, 03:16 PM
Corrales-Castillo II didn't get the buys because Showtime hasn't gotten their shit together. I couldn't buy Corrales-Castillo II on my cable box, nor could I buy Tsyzu-Hatton, because they don't show Showtime fights in my area. In fact, I don't think we get Showtime anywhere in Western Canada.

Ronald Lipton
12-10-2005, 04:32 PM
I saw the fight for the first time last night on tape thanks to Austin.

In my opinion too, Taylor won and the scores seemed accurate.

It is just that the referee did not let them fight inside one iota for the whole fight. Taylor was holding so much Hopkins could not fight inside at all.

In the first round after the rabbit punch thing, Nady sent Hopkins to a neutral corner in a bizzarre way, Hopkins obeyed him and walked away, by the time he called him back the action suffered.

I also felt his Nady's timing in selecting when to break them was off the whole fight and once on the ropes when Hopkins tried to fight back he said to the fighters, "No we'll have none of that." ????

All in all as always BH waits too long, it is the best he can do at this age, and he deserves much credit for being able to go 12 rounds with such a young strong fighter.

I respectfully do not agree with Max Kellerman's assessment of BH place in 160lb history, as being above Monzon.

12-10-2005, 05:03 PM
I don't understand why anybody wouldn't
like the bout between Erik Morales and Manny
Pacquiao. It was a competitive bout with
quite a bit of action. If HBO PPV had more
bouts of such quality in 2005, they would
have had a terrific year.

- Chuck Johnston

12-10-2005, 08:14 PM
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the fight but I got the sense early that Pac would not hurt Morales much, it took a bit of the drama out for me.

12-10-2005, 08:33 PM
Dig- Fair enough.

- Chuck Johnston

Todd Hodgson
12-10-2005, 09:35 PM
Dig's just sour cuz his guy lost. ;)

12-10-2005, 09:49 PM
Remind me to throw a dart at the Morales poster in your bathroom the next time I come over. ;)

12-11-2005, 02:01 AM
I just saw replay tonight and scored it a draw. I don't think either won. Quite frankly, I found it even more boring than the first fight. I still think Bernard blew it, just like the first one. All he had to do was fight and he could have hit Jermain, but he once again took a mostly safety first tactic. Jermain was pretty much the same, but often stole close rounds just by seeming a bit more frisky and moving less. Still, way too much posing and clinching and little actual attempts to fight. I think this is probably how Corbett-Jackson was, but that one lasted 61 rounds. I think Hopkins and Taylor would have to fight a finish fight for it actually to have some real action somewhere.

Roberto Aqui
12-11-2005, 02:24 AM
Taylor won convincingly. He was the stronger fighter and Hop was unwilling to open up on him until it was too late. Same old dog. I thought the fight was more entertaining than I heard. I've seen better, but I liked to see the way Taylor hung in and fought his fight and got rough when needed.

I'm also impressed with the reflexes of Hopkins. He's an all time speciman at 40, but Taylor was just too young, too strong, even when Taylor was awkward and off balance.

12-11-2005, 09:36 AM
Same shit, second fight...Taylor got the decision because he looks like he should. He starts strong, throws a bit more...seems to lead a bit more...and Bernard is simply a slow starting, cautious counter puncher without one punch power...their syyles make for a boring fight...both should have been draws..

I'd like to see Taylor fight someone else ... I'd like to see Bernard go to light heavy and fight Johnson again...he's better against men that come to him and he still has lots left.
He's had to loss a bit off his game but he was also never an outstanding offensive fighter...he is more like a Boa...he sucks you in and strangles you...a tall, strong, fast , talented real middleweight like Tayloy would have always been a tough match up for him (see Jones) ...

Bernard can stick arond for a while..he's just a bore to watch and has always been one...that's why he stayed in obsecurity for most of his career...a very talented, tough bore...

12-11-2005, 01:16 PM
I saw the "fight" last night for the first time....I thought it was a pathetic excuse for a middleweight title fight.

When both fighters just want to survive and take the least possible risk, this is the type of fight you get.....Taylor has no balls, if he did he would have taken the fight to Hopkins. Hopkins on the other hand didn't come to fight, he came for the payday.


12-11-2005, 01:55 PM
Well I suffered though this again but only because it was in hi-def (which for whatever reason was not broadcast in hi-def out here live). If you have not seen boxing in hi-def, it is a must. My first time I saw the Lacy/Sandman card a few weeks back and man it was amazing. I'm also watching it on a 60" LCD which only makes it impossible to get me out of the house when fights are hi-def. Of course you're going to have to deal with not knowing whether or not a fight will be hi-def until the day of the fight if you're a cable customer which makes me nuts. I think satellite is always hi-def.

Anyway, yeah it would have been nice if either guy stopped showing so much repsect. I have yet to see such a significant title fight go by that stirred a ripple to the effect of a fart in the ocean.

I honestly think BHop was spooked by RJJ's essentially career ending KOs. BHop had a great deal of respect for RJJ and I think that really changed his mindset & gameplan when taking on Taylor IMO.


Anyone feel that BHop might have suffered a bit from not having Bouie around? If you happened to notice, his corner's instructions may have been less useful than a drunken fan's.

12-13-2005, 02:18 PM
WBC orders negotiations for Taylor-Wright title fight
By Dan Rafael

The chess game being played to bring about an eventual fight between middleweight champion Jermain Taylor and Winky Wright took another twist Monday when the WBC ordered the sides to commence negotiations for the mandatory fight.

After Taylor defeated Bernard Hopkins in a Dec. 3 rematch to retain the Ring magazine title, as well as three sanctioning organization belts, he hoped to return to his hometown of Little Rock, Ark., for an April defense. After that, Taylor said, he would look to fight Wright in the summer.

However, Wright (50-3, 25 KOs) has campaigned loudly to face Taylor next, even though his subdued points victory against Sam Soliman on Saturday night did little to enhance the marketability of the fight.

Nonetheless, the WBC said if no agreement between Taylor promoter Lou DiBella and Wright promoter Gary Shaw is reached, a purse bid would be ordered for Jan. 20 in Mexico City.

The promoter who bids the most money wins the right to promote the fight. Taylor, as champion, would be due 75 percent of the winning bid with the remaining 25 percent going to Wright, the challenger.

Wright would certainly get a bigger cut than 25 percent under a negotiated deal, so it remains to be seen if he would settle for a purse bid.

Regardless, Wright said he was happy that a fight with Taylor drew one step closer Monday.

"I am extremely pleased with the WBC's decision to proceed with the mandatory title defense and I look forward to meeting Jermain head-on in the ring in my next fight," said Wright, the former undisputed junior middleweight champ who made his middleweight debut in May with a thorough thrashing of Felix Trinidad.

"Everyone knows that after every fight, I have always asked for another big fight. No breathers for me," Wright continued. "I only want the biggest fights against the best fighters because I am a competitor and I believe a champion should act like a champion. Now we are going to see who the best middleweight really is -- Jermain Taylor or me."

DiBella told ESPN.com that he hoped something could be worked out between the sides that would allow Taylor (25-0, 17 KOs) to fight in April before facing Wright, but if nothing can be they would consider Wright.

"We'll commence negotiations and see what happens," DiBella said. "I doubt we will reach an agreement but we could. If we don't and it goes to a purse bid we get the majority of the revenue, so it will be interesting to see if Winky is OK with fighting for 25 percent. But we're not going to give up the [WBC] title to avoid Winky Wright."

DiBella said he thought it was "idiotic" for the fight to happen next because it needed some more time to brew into a major event, reasoning that a Taylor fight on HBO in April would be a big help.

"I don't think it's out of the question that we could fight Winky next but I think it's idiotic and stupid," DiBella said. "Winky's fight on Saturday night didn't help Winky at all. He didn't look good and he only drew [4,682] fans. The fight with Jermain is not ready yet. After Winky's performance Saturday night, who's buying that on pay-per-view? I don't think it has been built sufficiently into a good performing pay-per-view event. If it does happen next, it would have to be on HBO, and I'm not sure the money is there to make it happen. I'll have to talk to HBO about that. We prefer to do the fight when it makes more sense, but we'll pursue the negotiation and see what happens."

Ideally, DiBella said he would like to work something out with Shaw that would delay the fight until the summer.

"We're not saying that we won't fight Winky next, but I think we can do something that works for everyone," DiBella said.