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View Full Version : VARGAS-CASTILLEJO RESULTS & DISCUSSION THREAD 8/20/05



GorDoom
08-20-2005, 09:26 AM
Per usual I will post the results immediately after the bout. If warranted I will also post regular updates. Please keep all discussion of this bout to this thread. Redundant threads will be deleted.

Lastly, I will be watching an East Coast feed of the fight. So if you live on the Left Coast & don't want to know the results ahead of time, read no further.

thanks,

GorDoom

GorDoom
08-20-2005, 09:40 PM
Rocky Juarez & Humberto Soto engaged in a very even first round. Soto was more aggressive than expected,

GorDoom

GorDoom
08-20-2005, 09:43 PM
After 3 I've got Soito winning by at least 2-1 in rounds

GorDoom

GorDoom
08-20-2005, 09:46 PM
After 4 Soto is starting to dominate.

GorDoom

GorDoom
08-20-2005, 09:53 PM
After 6 I have it 4-1-1 for Soto

GorDoom

GorDoom
08-20-2005, 09:59 PM
After 7 whre SWoto was effective for the first 2/3d but then Juares exploded with a two handed attack to win the round.

GorDoom

GorDoom
08-20-2005, 10:09 PM
After 9 I have Soto ahead 6-2-1 though he had a point taken for rabbit punching Juarez

diggity1
08-20-2005, 10:21 PM
Just decision for Soto. Thank god he wasn't robbed.

GorDoom
08-20-2005, 10:22 PM
Humberto Soto despite having had 2 points deducted won a UD over
Rocky Juarez.

GorDoom

GorDoom
08-20-2005, 10:43 PM
the first round of Vargas-Castillejo was so measured the crowd actually started booing then Vargas exploded with soome combos & stole the round in the lastt 10-15 seconds

GorDoom
08-20-2005, 10:46 PM
I thought Castillejo barely edged the 2nd.

GorDoom

GorDoom
08-20-2005, 10:52 PM
Vargas finaly let's his hands go & dropped Castijello with a body shot followed by two hard left hooks.

GorDEoom

GorDoom
08-20-2005, 11:02 PM
After 5 Vargas appears to be pitching a shutout. Including the KD he now has an almost insourmountable lead

GD

GorDoom
08-20-2005, 11:14 PM
After 8 the only way Castijello can win is by KO. While Vargas is winning going away he doesn't look that impressive.

GorDoom

GorDoom
08-20-2005, 11:22 PM
Fernando Vargas wins an obvious UD over Javier Castillejo in a boring, unexciting style. He certainly isn't the dynamo he used to be.

GorDoom

Chuck1052
08-20-2005, 11:34 PM
Does anybody know what the attendance was for
the Vargas-Castillejo card?

- Chuck Johnston

bomma
08-20-2005, 11:36 PM
Well I am also glad that Soto wasn't robbed though seemed like they did all they could to give Juarez the decision. He still won though; however I think Juarez did a good job trying to win the fight and I would still like to see him again. As far a Vargas goes does anyone think he going to be able to out box De' La Hoya I mean the guy was on steroids and still got clocked. He isn't half as good a boxer as he was a puncher. I for one would not pay for a De La Hoya fight. I'm sorry it has to be said as well that maybe he isn't the same fighter because he is not on the Roids. Vargas is the new Gatti without the 3 fights verses Ward. Personally the most interesting part of that fight was the bazaar interview and the fight that Vargas' crew got into. By the way were the HBO guys drunk? Steward couldn't get Castillejo's name right all night and Lamply couldn't remember what round it was. A bazaar night all around.

Chuck1052
08-20-2005, 11:47 PM
Didn't Rocky Juarez need Robert Gonzalez
to be the third man in his bout tonight?

- Chuck Johnston

Roberto Aqui
08-21-2005, 12:16 AM
Juarez got in there with a tough Mexican and lost a just decision. This should clue you in just how weak Raheem was in comparison as the Morales fight with Raheem looms. Juarez is a gutty little fighter, but lacks the overwhelming speed or power needed for championship fighters at this weight, though it looked like he had Soto hurt in the mid rounds. Glad to see a fair decision for a change.

Vargas notched another win, pretty much pitching a shutout against a good fighter he was expected to win against. Still, every fight from now on is fight by fight as a single loss might send him into retirement. It's time for the future stars to start making some noise. Too many retiring boxers out there.

StingerKarl
08-21-2005, 12:43 AM
Terrible main event.
Fernando is through.
Juarez didn't hit to the body nearly enough, and blew the fight by not letting his hands go enough.
Soto did a job on him being first with his double jab while Rocky just posed too much.
Karl

Rafael
08-21-2005, 12:57 AM
I agree with Stinger on both counts. Both Castillejo and Vargas appear kind of shot and and I doubt they will be a factor in the future of this division (even as depleted as it appears now). Geez, there were spots in which I pictured these two fighting each other on wheelchairs!

Soto-Juarez was a good fight, but Rocky lacks the relentlessness and activity level to go with his punch and body type. He simply cannot have long term success by being so ecoonomical and fighting at such a measured pace. In my opinion, Soto won very comfortably if you go by rounds (8-4 or 9-3), but the point deductions made it close. Incidentally, I agree with the point deductions by Tim Adams. I have been saying this for a while: the rabbit punch is perhaps the most dangerous foul in boxing because it impacts the brain stem. Luis Villalta was rabbit punched to death by Ricky Quiles last year and the ref basically took no action (same ref that did the Lacy-Reid fight). Referees really need to put a clamp on this. There have been a few high profile fights recently where refs allowed rabbit punches with impunity (Hatton over Tszyu, Lacy over Reid, and Mayorga over Piccirillo). I applaud Tim adams for cracking down on this horrible foul the way he did tonight. It was about time.

Chuck1052
08-21-2005, 01:36 AM
In my opinion, Humberto Soto lost only the seventh
round by a clear margin while only two or three
other rounds were close. Soto was the aggressor
while throwing and landing more punches than
Juarez in a good bout. Moreover, Soto has solid
boxing skills.

Kudos to HBO for finding a terrific substitute for
Injun Chin. The fans were treated to at least
one good bout tonight.

- Chuck Johnston

diggity1
08-21-2005, 02:14 AM
I knew it was only a matter of time before Juarez hit a wall after watching him struggle with Raheem. Nice kid but I never saw him as someone who could sit atop that division.

Had Castillejo has just a tad more power, he could have dropped Vargas a few times. DLH will murder Vargas next time. Vargas should get the Mayorga fight & stay under the radar like Gatti did for a while then cash out like Gatti did with Mayweather.

timayres
08-21-2005, 02:40 AM
Soto-Juarez was excellent, a terrific slugfest. Juarez showed great heart against a taller, quicker, stronger guy. He looked like he knew he was in against a strong guy early, but battled hard to the limit. Good stuff.

Vargas was bizarre after the fight- maybe he realizes that the KO did not come and his boxing was subpar and will be exposed as such in a big fight. He sounded whipped, his voice slurred and soft like he was exhausted, besides the jaw damage. I wonder how it will end this time around....

TKO Tom
08-21-2005, 08:11 AM
I believe Fernando Vargas was ruined by Felix Trinidad in 2001. Vargas was a young fighter that absorbed a frightful beating in a long bout before finally being brutally dispatched in the twelfth round. Since the Trinidad loss Vargas has not resembled the same fighter that came up through the ranks from 1998-2000.

Here are the problems with Vargas in his fights since the Trinidad loss:

05/05/2001, Wilfredo Rivera - Vargas decked in the second round and very nearly stopped by a light punching career Welterweight with only 20 knockouts who began his career at 135. Vargas looks slow throughout the bout.

09/22/2001, Shibata Flores - Vargas gets a win against former sparring partner. Flores comes into the bout with eight career losses and with best wins over B-level opponents. Vargas is nailed cleanly on numerous occasions and wobbles at least once or twice. It takes Vargas seven one-sided, tedious and slow paced rounds to finally stop Flores.

09/14/2002, Oscar De La Hoya - Vargas puts up another spirited effort reminiscent of his efforts against Quartey and Trinidad. Throughout the bout, Vargas absorbs a great deal of punishment, but also serves out a fair amount. Ultimately, however, he is brutally knocked out in the 11th round by a De La Hoya left hook. The post fight urinalysis shows steroids in his system.

07/26/2003 - 08/20/2005, Fitz Vanderpool, Tony Marshall, Ray Joval, Javier Castillejo - Vargas faces a veritable selection of B level opponents, none of whom are given any realistic chances of defeating him.

Fitz Vanderpool was 35 years-old and he put up a feeble effort before losing. Vanderpool would never win another fight in his career.

Tony Marshall was 33 years old and came into the Vargas fight with 11 career losses. Marshall had been stopped in three rounds in his previous bout and had lost four of his previous six bouts. Vargas is cut in the fight and struggles getting his punches off. The referee stops the bout after the seventh round for no true verifiable reason to the protests of Marshall's cornermen and Marshall himself as well as many fans in the audience.

Ray Joval was 36 years old coming into his fight with Vargas and had only beaten one other top-10 contender in an eleven year career. Joval has some success against Vargas by managing to win four of ten rounds on one judge's scorecard.

Francisco Castillejo was 37 years old coming into this bout. Castillejo does not put up much of an effort and gets decked in round three. He wins three rounds on two of the official scorecards. After the bout, Vargas claims he may have a broken jaw and seems to be slurring his words. Many watching on television and in Chicago are troubled by his slurred speech and sub-par performance. Vargas says afterward that he gives his performance an "F" and that he "felt slow".

Draw your own conclusions....

<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif" />

dnahar
08-21-2005, 08:25 AM
I thought Vargas looked out of his element in there. I don't think he is shot, but he isn't a Top 5 contender anymore. That boxing style is just not for him, and I doubt he can make the Marco Antonio Barrera transition from brawler to boxer. I agree with Emmanuel Steward that a few more fights won't help him, and that he should cash out and go straight to a DLH fight while it is an option. DLH hasn't looked impressive in his last few fights, and Fernando and his family would be set for life with the $10-12 million payday if he does retire. In the interview, Vargas seemed like a fighter whose mind wanted to do something but his body wouldn't let him do it. I'm glad he is honest about his performance, although you could tell the booing affected him.

Deepak

Hagler04
08-21-2005, 12:18 PM
was a superb fight! Who knew Chi's replacement would not only be more then cannon fodder, but pretty much dominate Juarez? But Juarez showed tons of heart and ensured the past 6 rounds to be very entertaining. Great slug-fest and the best non-PPV fight HBO has put on all year. I never thought Juarez was headed to be some dominate champ but he has balls and I for one want to see him again.

One thing though-what were the scales the night of the fight reading between them? Lampley mentioned their weights didn't differ that much but it's hard to believe . . .Juarez looked two weight classes below Soto, but maybe it's just body type . . .

HEGrant
08-21-2005, 12:45 PM
Get ready for Oscar/Fernando 2. It's the least risky big money out there for Oscar which is why he'll make it happen. It's the biggest money, least dangerous opponent for Fernando, which is why he'd jump at it. Oscar has dropped more than Vargas, who had earlier dropped, since their last fight. Maybe we get a mini Thrilla !

Rafael
08-21-2005, 12:53 PM
I personally could not care less about Vargas-Oscar 2. It would be more of of that "exhibition matchmaking" that the networks and powers that be have been feeding us for a while now. These two are obviously way past their best, and not looking to fight the best available opponents or establish themselves as the top dogs in their division.

Kurant
08-21-2005, 01:02 PM
You act like De La Hoya has had stellar performances over the last few years.

He hasen't exactly impressed anyone either. He lost to Felix Sturm, but politics and money allowed him to carry on and get knocked out by Hopkins. DLH hasen't established himself anything. He said he'll be back, at 147, and then I think you'll see the same DLH. His power will be much improved when he hits that weight, considering he was fighting 160. DLH will be fine. I'd put him against anyone at 147. I'd absolutley rather see a Vargas/DLH rematch then a Mosely chess match, and you KNOW one of those fights will come off.

Vargas is adapting a new style, and the fact he took alot of punishment from DLH and Tito, well, give him a break. It's going to take time. I won't call him shot yet, but his fight last night, you have to wonder.

It's all media fueled talk anyway. Vargas knows that he's not ready for DLH. He just talks it up, because he has too. DLH would pick him apart.

diggity1
08-21-2005, 01:04 PM
I think there is no comparison when comparing the fall of these fighters. Oscar moved up & didn't dominate but he competed without being totally outclassed, he has never taken a beating like Vargas has. Oscar is not the same fighter he was 5 years ago but it's still not in the same ballpark as the current Vargas & Oscar will destroy Vargas much worse than the first time IMO.

Completely useless fight & one I would not purchase.

dnahar
08-21-2005, 01:12 PM
To those who were there, what was going on in the stands? You could hear Fernando getting upset with one of his crew members who clearly dished out a cheap shot while the HBO cameras were on the stands. Who was responsible and what happened?

Deepak

Rafael
08-21-2005, 01:16 PM
Vargas is known to walk around with a large entourage of thugs.

bomma
08-21-2005, 03:58 PM
I'm with diggy why would anyone what to pay for that fight. Vargas is clearly done and his new style is not exactly Joe Frazier in there. I mean come on I can think of 100 other fights I would rather see than that one. Not to mention that both guys have kind of warn out there welcome for me, I think they should both retire.

HEGrant
08-21-2005, 05:04 PM
People will pay for it for the same reason Vargas remains an HBO fighter and everything Oscar is it draws well to great. It would include two of the most popular fighters in the sport.

Rafael
08-21-2005, 06:03 PM
You may be right, but at some point popularity alone will stop carrying these HBO darlings.

Chuck1052
08-21-2005, 07:55 PM
I am sorry to learn that some people in Fernando
Vargas's entourage reportedly got into a brawl
and were arrested at the fight venue of Vargas's
bout. It is possible that I was premature in
regards to writing a post about possible signs
that Vargas has settled down.

According to at least one report, a boxer
managed by Fernando Vargas named Daniel
Cervantes fought to a controversial draw
in a bout with Nelson Romaine. The writer
thought that Romaine "won." That's too
bad because I thought that Cervantes had
alot of boxing skill. As a result, I enjoyed
watching him fight on television. Of course,
Vargas, Cervantes, and I live in Ventura
County, California.

It looks like the fight card in Chicago last
night drew a crowd of about 10,000.
When you consider that there was another
big fight card in the Chicago area during the
previous week, that isn't a bad attendance
figure.

- Chuck Johnston

Juan C Ayllon
08-21-2005, 11:21 PM
Hey,

I was contacted by the PR man from 8 Count Productions and asked to file a report for a reporter from the Houston Chronicle on Rocky Juarez. The catch was, I had to have the final story sent in by 11:30 PM. The Juarez fight had hardly ended and I got a call to provide a brief oral report at 10:30 for the early edition, then had to rush to get the 800 word report to them by the 11:30 deadline.

So, while I was hustling to finalize the piece from my ringside typed observations (which totalled some 900+ words), the Vargas fight and the subsequent brawl occurred. I only observed portions of both fights.

From what I understand, a brawl started in the stands for who knows what reason. I mean, speaking as a Latin man, from my observations of some Latins, it certainly doesn't take much with some people drinking freely and involved in some point of passionate discourse, when unmittigated machismo rears its ugly head. It's sickening.

Anyways, apparently someone in Vargas' camp said, "Hey, my dad's in there," or words to that effect, and rushed to the stands.

It's crazy stuff.

By the way, you can read Ben Torres' reports, as well as a link to my story and the ringside notes from which I culled my news report at the CBZ Newswire page by clicking on the word, "News" at the top of this page. That, or click on the link below:

<a href="http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/news" target="_new">CBZ Newswire Page</a>

We should have pictures up soon. I would have tried to put them up today, but I was burned out, doing the church, friends and family visit thing.

By the way, here is a direct link to the Houston Chronicle article:

<a href="http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3319061" target="_new">Juan's Juarez Report at the Houston Chronicle</a>

Regards,


Juan C. Ayllon

diggity1
08-22-2005, 12:03 AM
The public is only gonna apologize for Vargas to an extent. He may always be a draw in Cali but showings like this will only dwindle his attraction outside of LA. His last 2 best fights were 3 & 5 years ago (which were losses btw), the public doensn't typically remember back that far especially since the "comeback" hasn't been all that stellar to watch.

Might as well look forward to the brawls in the stands.

As funny as it may sound, I doubt DLH will waste his time.

HEGrant
08-22-2005, 05:53 AM
I don't know Raf, look how long HBO carried and pampered Gatti. The man was set up and hailed as a champion many years after he was no longer a top ten fighter.

bomma
08-22-2005, 10:23 AM
Now that is a fight that should happen and the loser should have to retire, the winner as well :) Anyway I think HBO's carrying of Gatti and there general disregard for the publics intelligence is why Showtime has started to catch up with them and even surpass them in many respects. They need to take a page out of Showtime’s book and get out of the fighter promotion business. It is hurting there credibility badly.

As far as comparing Gatti to Vargas, here are a few differences that I think will prevent him from having the same success as Gatti, Vargas is not fighting the same fan-pleasing action style as Gatti. His defense first sub par boxing style is not very exciting to watch and won't be a big draw. Gatti is also a more appealing personality, I don't claim to know these guys in private but when you got one guy whose entourage is causing fights in the stands, and another where he is marketed as the guy from the block it is not hard to figure out who the public is going to gravitate to. I mean Vargas is not KOing people like Tyson in his prime where he can get away with this stuff. Vargas should cash out now while there is still some interest by some circles.

DscribeDC
08-22-2005, 01:55 PM
I've got to take my hat off to Humberto Soto. It takes guts to come into a strange country and beat a top-ranked fighter, 10,000 fans and a hostile referee, too. Well done.

Was I the only one who yawned his way through the last half of the Vargas fight?

Rafael
08-22-2005, 02:39 PM
DC, the Chicago fans were actually rooting more for Soto than for Rocky at the Allstate Arena (there is an article in the Chicago trib about that today). The HBO people were mistakenly claiming that the audience was chanting "Rocky, Rocky," when in reality they were chanting "Soto, Soto." When a real Mexican fights a Mexican-American that is usually what happens. Also, in my opinion, the referee was not especially hostile towards Soto. The only thing I would have done differently was to also penalize Juarez one point for the retaliations, but rabbit-punches must be deal with very harshly

Ah, and I yawned through the entire Vargas fight!

Juan C Ayllon
08-22-2005, 02:52 PM
Whereas I have not seen the article today, I was there and, by and large, the crowd was very pro Soto. No doubt, this had a lot to do with Soto hailing from Mexico, as there was a huge presence of Mexicans througout. This should come as no suprise, as demographics indicate a huge and sustained influx of Mexican immigrants coming into the area for years to come.

In fact, following a nearly deafening roar from the crowd as Soto--preceded by the Mexican flag--Juarez' entrance was roundly booed by the Mexican contingency. I was surprised.

In all fairness, though, when Juarez rallied, a respectable sized contingency of Juarez fans occasionally yelled out "Rocky! Rocky! Rocky!" However, even then, you could hear some boos mixed in by the pro Soto crowd.

That said, the Soto backers greatly outnumbered the Juarez fans.

Regards,


Juan

Dhalgren
08-22-2005, 03:15 PM
I wonder if Injin Chi will recover to fight Soto later in the year. It seems like that would be a good battle between two tough fighters who throw a lot of leather and rarely take a backward step.

DscribeDC
08-22-2005, 03:17 PM
Well, I stand corrected then. This just goes to illustrate a pet peeve I have about HBO, namely that Lampley, et al. will shill for the house fighter regardless of what is happening in the ring. There were numerous instances throughout the fight where Lampley and Steward were talking about what a rally Juarez was putting on and I was thinking "what fight are these guys watching? Juarez is the one who is busted up!" It stands to reason, then, that they would portray it as a pro-Juarez crowd. My mistake.

I did not think that Soto's rabbit punches were any more flagrant than you see punctuating clinches in every professional fight. One point would have been more than sufficient penalty. And Juarez' retaliatory blows got nothing but warnings.

Rafael
08-22-2005, 04:23 PM
I did not think that Soto's rabbit punches were any more flagrant than you see punctuating clinches in every professional fight. One point would have been more than sufficient penalty. And Juarez' retaliatory blows got nothing but warnings.

I agree with the first and third sentences, but not with the second one. In my opinion, rabbit punches -which are extremely dangerous fouls- are greatly underpenalized by most referees. I appaud Tim Adams for his harshness in this instance, but as I said before, he shoud have deducted a point from Juarez as well.

timayres
08-22-2005, 07:13 PM
What say Ron Lipton? I thought there was a guy who looked like him on tv in ref's clothing at ringside in Chicago. Just wondering...

DscribeDC
08-22-2005, 07:29 PM
Yes, they're serious. And I have no problem with penalties. I would just ask the Commissions to enforce some consistency with their refs, and not use those penalties as a vehicle to influence the outcome.

AEP2
08-22-2005, 07:56 PM
The first fight between Juarez and Soto was one hell of a fight. I'm glad Soto got the decision despite the points deduction. Soto came out a fought a very smart fight with his jab. He double jabbed Juarez to death during the first four rounds. However, he seemed to abandon this strategy in the middle rounds some what and exchange more (Maybe the crowds constant booing whenever there was a lull in the action contributed to this decision). This gave Juarez the opportunity to mount a comeback and hurt Soto at least once seriously. But Soto weathered the storm and gutted out a tough win. I think Steward's assessment of Soto was on the money: Soto was ON that night. That's why he could take serious leather and keep on fighting.

I didn't agree with Adams points deductions. The punches by Soto seemed incidential and Juarez was moving his head down and away exposing the back of his head.

Vargas appears to have turned into a head case. He wins the fight and ruminates over it. I agree with those that say Trinidad ruined Vargas. He's now trying to fight a style that doesn't suit his personality. True he needn't to make adjustments but should stop being the fighter he was.

Rafael
08-22-2005, 10:05 PM
Hey Tim, the Ron Lipton look-alike you referred to is Chicago referee John O'Brien:

http://www.worldboxingvideoarchive.com/torrents/imagebucket/John%20OBrien.jpg

Chuck1052
08-22-2005, 11:55 PM
Since the middle 1970s, I have gone to see boxing
shows in Southern California. One has to remember
that there are alot of Mexican nationals who go see
the fights in California. In other words, there
is alot of support of Mexican fighters who are
fighting Mexican-American fighters under such
circumstances. There are many times when
the crowd is yelling, "Mey-he-ko! Mey-he-ko!
Mey-he-ko! (Mexico! Mexico! Mexico!) when
their heroes are in the ring.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck1052
08-23-2005, 12:00 AM
Juan- Thank you for your great ringside reports of
fights taking place in the Chicago area. Yes,
it looks like Chicago is a good fight town.

Have you seen a report on Fightnews about the
fracas involving Fernando Vargas's entourage
after their hero's bout ended?

- Chuck Johnston

Juan C Ayllon
08-23-2005, 01:25 AM
Hey Chuck,

Thanks, man! I really appreciate that.

As for Robert Hoffman's report on the fracas, yeah, he forwarded it to me. Funny thing: Robert lives just a little over half a mile from me! He's a terrific guy, without a doubt. Ditto for Jacob Chavez, who I always see at the fights. We often buy each other beers at these events.

Bill McTrindle, Julius of www.boxingtalk.com, etc. They're all terrific guys. But, I digress.

Regarding the fracas, I heard that one of Vargas' homies yelled out, "Hey, that's my dad in there," or words to that effect. Then, they went for broke, dealing out their measure of protection and street justice, so to speak.

I can understand that. However, it got pretty out of hand. It's a real shame. My concern, besides the immediate safety of fans and reporters alike, is the potential to drive away decent folks from attending a great show.

By the way, I've posted a few photos from the fights at the reports.

Cheers,


Juan

Juan C Ayllon
08-23-2005, 04:56 AM
<img border=0 src="http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/news/archives/VargasStalks.jpg" />

Here's a photo Josh Walls shot at the fights.

Regards,


Juan C. Ayllon

Juan C Ayllon
08-23-2005, 05:16 AM
<a href="http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/news/archives/00001154.htm" target="_new">Story One</a>

<a href="http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/news/archives/00001156.htm" target="_new">Story Two</a>

<a href="http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/news/archives/00001155.htm" target="_new">Story Three</a>

timayres
08-26-2005, 03:53 PM
Rafael-

Thanks so much for that clarification. You can see how I might be mistaken perhaps. You could see him in the crowd, gloves on, arms folded, watching the action.

I know it is a State thing, so not sure what I was thinking that Ron would be there. Maybe that he just showed up in his gear ready to rock-n-roll if needed!

Tim