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10-8
09-29-2007, 09:37 AM
Does anyone know the official scoring of this fight after 7 rounds?

I've heard everything from Foreman slightly ahead to Ali pitching a shut-out one one card.

Also who were the judges?

hawk5ins
10-01-2007, 02:53 PM
As common information as this would SEEM to be, it's pretty difficult to pin down.

From the Mar 1975 issue of World Boxing, whihc covers the fight, all I have managed to unearth (And I have the RIng Post fight article, the Sports Illustrated Post fight issue as well as The FIGHT by Norman Mailer, which is dedicated EXCLUSIVELY to the ALi Foreman bout, AND A post fight article by Dave Anderson of the NY Times, reprinted in the NY TImes Encyclopedia of Sports book on Boxing) Is this from page 51 of that magazine:

Up until the knockout, (Zack) Clayton had Ali ahead 4-2-1. World Boxing had Ali ahead 4-3..........

Was Clayton the only scoring official in the bout? I am not sure.

I have more books on Ali than I care to admit (if for no other reason than at least 1/3 of them are absolutely terrible books.), so I will see what I can come up with.

Hawk

10-8
10-01-2007, 03:52 PM
Your efforts are appreciated. Thanks in advance if you can pin it down.

hawk5ins
10-01-2007, 04:28 PM
I can give you a complete breakdown of a Ringside poll taken going into the fight showing that Ali held a 24-20 advantage among the pollees despite the huge odds going agianst Muhammad.

But I can't find the scorecards.

I can tell you Bud Friggen Collins of the Boston Globe predicted Foreman would stop Ali in 9, but I can't tell you who the judges were.

I'm becoming irritated now.

Hawk

TKO11
10-01-2007, 09:25 PM
I've actually spent quite a few hours trying to scare up the scores myself. Never found a thing. The info must exist somewhere, but I've never found the right place to look for it.

10-8
10-02-2007, 10:41 AM
I'm beginning to think Mobutu may have seized them as a souvenier, and they were never seen.

I have a ton of Ali books and reference material and have researched different aspects of his career and I have never seen the scorecards for that fight.

Strange.

hawk5ins
10-02-2007, 10:50 AM
What I find pretty funny here, is the IMMEDIATE attitude I initially had for your question.

"Oh sh*t, I'll find that info easy enough."

2 days, about 15 books, 10 or 12 magazines, and a whole slew of Google searches later, All I have come up with is Zack Clayton's card.

"Shaddup and Sit down Mr. Hawkins!"

Hawk

dnahar
10-05-2007, 02:47 AM
I will add this information to BoxRec soon, but here's what I found:

Referee Zach Clayton (4-2-1, using Hawk's info)
Judges American James Taylor and Tunisian Nourridine Adalla

Aidala had the fight 3-0-4 in rounds for Ali. He gave Ali three rounds and had the other four rounds even, according to a direct quote by him in a UPI article. The scores and the proclamation of the winner were not announced ringside after the bout. According to Adalla, the other judge (James Taylor) had Ali ahead 4-1-2 in rounds. But I couldn't confirm with another newspaper article.

Hope this helps.

Deepak

hawk5ins
10-05-2007, 07:39 AM
Seek out the master!

Thanks Deep! Knew we should have turned to you in the first place!

Great Job!

Hawk

TKO11
10-05-2007, 09:24 AM
First, I will also thank Deepak for digging this stuff up. Awesome.

But then..... WHAT THE HELL!?! Of the two ringside judges, of 14 combined scored rounds, they gave ONE to Foreman?

I know Ali often received favorable scoring (winning fights by landslides that were actually pretty close), but that Ali/Foreman was a VERY close fight. 7-1-6 in combined judges scoring. That is a LOAD.

hawk5ins
10-05-2007, 09:51 AM
Check Out Mailer's book on the Fight.

It's an excellent read, however when he gets to the bout, if you had never seen the fight, you'd wonder if big George did anything right in there.

I understand he's an Ali fan, but man it was SOOOOO slanted, it just got comical after a while.

Hawk

10-8
10-05-2007, 03:16 PM
Thanks Deep for that info. Much appreciated and satisfied a curiosity I've had for awhile.

Mike DeLisa
10-06-2007, 02:29 PM
Here is a question

was ali foreman to be scored on a rounds or a points system

kenmore
10-06-2007, 04:41 PM
Check Out Mailer's book on the Fight.

It's an excellent read, however when he gets to the bout, if you had never seen the fight, you'd wonder if big George did anything right in there.

I understand he's an Ali fan, but man it was SOOOOO slanted, it just got comical after a while.

Hawk

Don't you agree though that Foreman fought an incredibly amateurish fight that night? It was one of the strangest performances by a heavyweight champion that I have ever seen. Foreman assailed Ali all night like a clumsly Golden Glover. Foreman couldn't even penetrate Ali's guard even though Ali stood right in front of him for most of the fight.

I think the outcome was legit -- Foreman simply exhausted himself. But I never would have expected a heavyweight champion to put on such an inept showing.

That night Foreman fought below par because of bad tactical and strategic preparation.

dnahar
10-07-2007, 01:26 AM
Mike, you are right on with the observation about points. The fight was indeed scored on points (10pts to winner of round and 10-10 in event of a tie), and I will make the necessary BoxRec changes. The reason I listed it in rounds is because the only source of the scores I could find was Judge Adalla who mentioned points but gave the other scorecard in terms of rounds and Hawk listed Clayton's scores in rounds as well.

Deepak

To Mike: BTW, the email I replied to about the IBF cruiser fight info you were seeking was undeliverable. If you give me another email, I'll send you what I found.

walshb
10-08-2007, 10:14 AM
I think Foreman may have deserved to be in front. He was the guy doing all the pressing, landing more and throwing more. Now Ali IMO always looked like the
eventual winner as George was gassing himself, but I wouldn't say Foreman fought DUMB. How many other heavies could have withstood that pressure.
George gave Ali hell for 24 minutes. Ali was pissing blood after the fight and took a hell of a beating. His courage, heart and ability to take a beating
won him that fight.

hawk5ins
10-09-2007, 03:34 PM
1974-10-30 George Foreman 220 - Muhammad Ali 216 44-2-0

Stade du 20 Mai, Kinshasa, Kinshasa, Democratic Republic Of The Congo L KO 8 15
~ time: 2:58

| referee: Zach Clayton 66-68 | judge: Nourridine Adalla 67-70 | judge: James Taylor 66-69 ~
~ WBC heavyweight title ~
~ WBA heavyweight title ~
Fight known as "The Rumble in the Jungle"
1974 Fight of the Year - Ring Magazine
Scorecards in rounds: Zach Clayton 4-2-1 Ali, Nourridine Adalla 3-0-4 Ali, and James Taylor 4-1-2 Ali

Looks sweet!

Hawk