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View Full Version : Who had the fastest hands pound per pound ever?



wpink
10-27-2007, 09:28 PM
This is probably a discussion that can not be solved, but for fun debate I list 5 fighters that I have seen that top my list and i will support it. I am sure there many others.

Ali
Jones,
Leonard
Mayweather,
Norris
Taylor

Camacho is close as well as Tyson.

Ali simply was soo fast at Heavyweight that it is almost impossible to have a speed discussion with out starting out with him. Was it Terrell that he blistered him with combination after combination.

Jones..IMO he was the fastest to ever lace em up, pound per pound. In fact the other fighters on this even though they were smaller than he was, still did not edge him in quickness. If you see how fighters never imagined catching left hooks that he would through from that far away..lead left hooks. and how fast he would counter punch them...with his left hook or right..so fast that many fighters simply stopped punching for fear of the of the counter...then finally when he put both handes behind he back and and dropped the challenger with a super quick combination.

Leonard - When I look at his speed sometimes he kind of saved his speed for when he opened up with those combinations. Back before his retirment, I do not know of anyone that threw better combination ever than He did. Look at the Chavarini and Mayweather SR fights. If you want to see fast combinations, look at Ray in the olympics...Roy may have been the fastest to me, but Leonard's combination were the best and fastest.

Taylor. I remember seeing his fight with Norris, and was amazed at how in the first 2 rounds he was much faster IMO than norris was, and he had clearly lost several steps and had beefed up. Tayjor I heard was clocked and his hand speed was the fastest of all time...I heard this, I can not say I did much research to justify that, but he clearly was a speedster.

Mayweather. When you see how he makes people repeatedly miss, and miss and miss, and then counter at will, and then start ripping right hand leads, and just like Leonard he fights from angles..He has great foot movement but doesnt use it as much as ray used to ,,,but his speed is overwhelming.

Norris. At Jr Middle...wow his 3 punch combinations that usualy ends in a upper is blistering, fast and powerful. I am amazed that with his speed he did not use it to avoid punches more. I am also amazed that he didnt beat all these fighters that he lost too, he had so much speed that some of these fighters should not have been able to touch him.

My vote is Jones, when I see him at 160 he is the fastest I ever seen. leonard in the olympics when he through in combinations was faster with multiple punch combinations, but Roy simply was faster with the total package and I believe faster at middle than Ray was at Welter.

starlingstomp
10-27-2007, 11:49 PM
Tommy Hearns...imo quicker than Mayweather straight up.Some fighters just have speed that seems to transcend weightclass.Ali is a great example of that.

Ike Williams
Joe Louis
Ray Robinson
Don Curry
Fighting Harada
Chan-Hee Park
Mark Johnson
Ronnie Harris
Michael Nunn
Ismael Laguna
Nigel Benn at 160
Jose Legra
Howard Winstone

Along with the names you mentioned Pink, those are others that quickly come to mind were i to try a top 20 or so.


Also you don't have to be good or successful to be really fast.Eddie Hopson, Zab Judah, Kirkland Laing and many others were/are extremely quick.

Also for a guy with pretty slow feet and poor reflexes i always thought Doug Dewitt could throw some really quick, unusual combos.

PeteLeo
10-28-2007, 01:20 AM
Some long-time observers will tell you that a prime Floyd Patterson threw faster combos than did Ali. Louis had really quick fists, too. PeteLeo.

blv30
10-29-2007, 10:28 AM
Personally, I feel:

Ray Leonard
Muhammad Ali
Hector Camacho
Howard Davis Jr.
Bernard Taylor
Michael Dokes
Greg Page
Meldrick Taylor
Roy Jones jr.

wpink
10-29-2007, 02:48 PM
No Roy Jones Jr?

PeteLeo
10-30-2007, 01:53 AM
Uhhhh . . . yeah? (Last name.)
PeteLeo.

walshb
10-30-2007, 03:01 AM
Manny Paquiao has extremely fast hands.

Oscar and Shane at peak were absolute grease lightning.

wpink
10-30-2007, 05:40 AM
Yeh i forgot about shane and judah...Maybe a good thread would who had the most effective hand speed, as there appears to be a lot of boxers with great hand speed. If that is the case,,,,I will go with

Jones,
Leonard,
Mayweather,
Robinson,
Ali

Close runners up
Camacho
Mosley

Michael Frank
10-30-2007, 05:59 PM
From what I saw, Jones Jr., Camacho Sr., and Meldrick Taylor were faster than the others named. Yet, Ali's and Leonard's punches were heavier than Camacho's and Taylor's, so speed without power isn't so wonderful (see Howard Davis, Jr., who showed power against lesser guys but not his better opponents).

Patterson to me threw more dangerous, fast blows than did Ali.

silk degrees
10-30-2007, 07:55 PM
I always thought Larry Holmes had the fastest, most accurate, and powerful jab I'd seen, Larry could really stifle an opponent with that stinging jab, it was a real weapon he had. Michael Frank good point concerning the power/speed punches!!

wpink
10-30-2007, 10:14 PM
I agree Michael Frank. However, Norris and Jones through faster punches too. When I look Ray Leonard "pulled back" and through fast combinations and actually pulled back and launched very fast left hooks,,meaningful left hooks and rights...(look at the beginning of rounds 6 and 7 vs duran. Where as Roy would though very fast hooks and right hands but got his speed from how he piivots and his hands never are "pulled back", allowing his punches to get to the destination very fast, and amazingly enough at middleweight and sometimes at super middle these punches were devastatingly powerful. When I boxed, we were always taught that power comes from how you pivot into the punch and from the legs and hips, roy was a master at it. As for Ray IMO his speed was mostly in combination and overwhelming vs slower opponents, but vs fast opponents he would swith to another style. When he fought Duran the first time you can see that Duran almost matched his speed in that syle of fight. Ray through many many many looping right hands that duran would duck under and even catch Ray with right leads of his own. You are not supposed to be able to do this to a bigger faster opponent. So I have to give props to Durans speed to, even though is was not his signature attriibute. I do not ever think we have or will see a prime Roy or Mayweather get hit with Right hands leads by anyone, so in the speed category I will move Ray down the list a bit, but to Micheal Franks point, when combined with the total package to commitment ot the punch, Ray moves back up the list. Thanks to Dundee forcing Ray earlier in his career to shy away from shoe shinning all the time as he did in the Olympics and early on, to landing blistering combinations but less in volume and more in power.

Also when thinking about the fastest hands, you have to somewhat consider the footspeed, and instinct. As the end result is landing meaning ful punches. That again is where I believe Roy, Leonard, Mayweather, Young ali, norris, Camacho. As all of these fighers moved brilliantly and in the split second was landing a punches from nowhere. I believe this is what seperates them from the rest of the pack.

Based on Franks point's about speed/power, and to me the instinct and footspeed....Hmmm tough one. Ali had sooooo much speed for a heavyweight and good decent power, but IMO not the same pound per pound as a Roy at Middleweight, a little less than Leonard at Welterweight, the same as Mayweather at 130...I know many will moan and groan about that but he had good power at that weight class, review the Diego fight. Norris had great speed maybe a bit faster than ray, but he basically through the same punches same combo's the other where able to through different punches, and obviously avoided getting hit moreseo than Norris did.

I think Robinson was the best all around fighter ever to live pound per pound, but I think Roys speed and power at middleweight (helped out by his unorthodoxness) is the fastest most lethal combinatin I have ever seen. No he was not a closer, but speeed and power alone with seal the deal with out having to step in and close the show. Many times fighters would simply stop swinging for fear of the split second counter that the knew would come if they opened up. I dont think he faced the same fighters as a Leonard, or Robinson,,but when he did face his stiffest three...Hopkins could not hit him, Toney was humiliated, and in the rematch with Griffin he just obliterated him. Yes he made mistakes that a prime pound per pound duran many have exposed, but we are not talking best pound per pound fighter, simpy fastest most effective fighter with a consideration for power, footspeed and instinct and a prime Roy to me was fastest ever. I strongly believe even at middleweight he was faster than Ray was at his peak at Welter and that is saying a lot!

So my order with all this..and this is just for fun, to debate back and forth, and get good ideas from many of your input...

Faster punchers with power, instinct and footspeed. Pound per pound.

Roy Jones
Ray robinson
Ray leonard
Ali -
Mayweather

Michael Frank
10-31-2007, 08:26 PM
Pink, I like your analysis.

But, you know, the more I think about it, since the question posed is "Who had the fastest hands pound per pound ever?" then, p-f-p, I'd have to say Ali or Patterson were fastest (modifying my earlier post). As heavies, they were so much faster than opponents, whereas RJJ, Leonard, Mayweather, Taylor, etc. don't exceed their fastest opposition's speed by as much, IMO.

wpink
11-01-2007, 07:21 AM
Good Point. I have to go back and really review Patterson. I am extremely familiar with Ali, as my college roommate forced me time and time again to review his tapes.

However one thing I would encourage you to do, is look at Roys hand speed at 160. Tell me (honestly this is a question as I have never seen it but would love to see someone else faster) if you have seen anyone who could land counters, in fact left hook counters, or lunging (may not be text book or smart but it was effective) left hooks as fast and powerful as Roy was able to do. Now we all know that because of his dependence on speed and instinct alone, now he has had a couple of fights were no having the basics down, the fundementals, or a Benard Hopkins said learn how to truly box, this is hurt him. However, Hopkins, Toney all of them durning he peak years simply could were helpless against a roy jones who was so fast that he could make mistake after mistake and still "easily" beat them....key word...easily. That shows how fast and how good he was, and had he had competion like Robinson, ali, or Leonard had,,,,hmmmm we may just be considering him a top 5 all time...However, IMO he lacked that competiton overall, and because of that alone I rank him beneath these fighters. Again in a conversation about best boxer - I believe the end result is the best calculator. They all have strenghts and weaknesses....Roy's speed made up for his lack of a chin ( at least we think, he was never seriously hurt until De Valle), Hell Ali never seriously body punched and was thought early on to have a suspect chin, Leonard ate Right hands like candy, mayweather will fight back,but after....after you throw your arsenal, vs back and forth countering like a Leonard did or a young Roy Jones, or madd Roy Jones did...definatley not like a Ray Robinson. That alone propels Roy Jones to #1 as far as this thread goes, because he was soooooo fast he made up for his othr weaknesses which now may seem like he had a lot, including very very low use of a jab....just counters, leads....etc..

walshb
11-01-2007, 08:57 AM
I honestly have trouble placing Roy in the top. He was ultra slick and was fast, but I
tend to go for fighters who could throw punches in bunches. Combinational speedsters with variation. Ray Leonard, Mosley, Oscar and Ali are real good examples and of course Robinson who had the most varied combination speed I have ever seen.
Louis was a greasy fast puncher in close, but with KO power in each shot. Roy was single shots and maybe 1-2 combos, but not much else....

Michael Frank
11-01-2007, 05:26 PM
Pink and Walsh,

I sort of agree with both of you. RJJ to me was the fastest I ever saw as to one single shot, via a lunge or however else he chose. Hell, it was as effective or more so than a traditional blow.

However, I didn't witness him throw classic flurries of blows and show speed in landing several in a row, like Leonard, Davis, etc.

Senya13
11-02-2007, 02:10 AM
One-two counter that dropped Reggie Johnson. Four left hooks vs. Bryant Brannon. Five jabs in 1 second vs Pazienza. Machine-gun flurry with power punches intermixed to finish Glenn Thomas. The finishing combination on the move vs Pazienza again. 3rd round vs Tony Thornton.

wpink
11-02-2007, 02:10 AM
I in general agree with you all about the flurries as I mentioned previously. If one saw Ray Leonard flurry in the Olympics against a certain opponent, I forget who exactly, but he started off the fight with something like a 25 punch flurry. However, here is what all should realize. Most of the times those flurries in the professional setting are ineffective. When Leonard first came into the professional ranks, he would throw "shoeshines" which is what many call those flurries...and really galvinated the crowd, and overswhelmed lessor opponents, but as the opposition got better those types of flurries became less and less a credible tool. Also, Dundee's focus was to professionalize Leonard. When he first came out, he had many fights the went the distance because he was not committing to his punches, and fighting like he did in the olympics..scoring but not seriously hurting. That was a major difference in his fight with Mayweather SR. As Mayweather Sr landed some decent shots early on, but he was quick but didnt committ to his punches. So in part Ray leoanrd was the begging of the these lower weight flamboyant speedsters. He did have the total package, but IMO he did dance more than the later fighters, and he early one shoe shinned a bit more..... Later on in his career you started to see the shoe shine lese and less, I would sometime go to a variation of it, like in his fight with Duran in montreal, he in would briefly through these multiple punch combinations, but they generally did not have many punches in it as he did before, because you leave yourself wide open for a Left Hook Counter..Wide Open. He also throught that shoe shine vs hagler in round 12, it scored but had no effect.

As for Roy Jones quickness, Wow..... He was much much quicker with Counters than Ray Leonard. and if you simply ask Reggie Johnson Roy's one-two could be blistering quck and powerful. Not to say Leonard was not super quck, but they set their punches up differently .."generally", which is why Ray fighting a Roy at any weight ever,,,would be bad bad idea for Ray...As Ray was a super fast with hands a fight fighter set up his punches off the jab a lot. Then his fighting instinct would take over whenever he got hit, or was involved in a meaningful exchange.. However Roy was unorthodox. He would be 10 feet away, then all of a sudden your hit with a clean, accurate left hook lunge. Or if you jabbed by the time your got your hands back from the jab to protect frome getting hit,,It was too later, he many times already had countered your jab with his Hook. Simply amazing anyone could be that fast. He did this to Toney, and Hopkins. Both dammm great fighters. Lessor fighters simply stopped swinging at him because of the response that they knew they would get.

Roy did at time while a middleweight throw some very good flurries, in fact he once through a20 punch unanwered flurry that was soo devastating...Roy IMO could do anything he set his mind to, becasue he was sooo quick. There were times he would launch 5 left hooks in a row,,,,5 IN A FREAKIN ROW...simply to show how quick he was..

Mosley was super super super quick. In fact leoanrd mentioned that he thought Mosley may be a tad bit quicker. However I lost a lost of love for him when he didnt not show me the heart of a lion vs Forrest. He allowed himself to be controlled on the outside, and unlike Ray Leonard he didnt have what it took to go into the lions den, wage war and bring it to the bigger mn with reach.

I really think that fighters and trainers today are shying away from the shoe shine, because in the amateurs it can bulild up points and looks great, but in the pros it really is meaning less, unless your simply clowning your opponent and want to show complete dominance and do not respect his counter punching ability. The solid one two, or one two three ( norris was great at that) with power is more effective in my mind than a multiple punch combo.

Now if your talking about and irruption of punches like ray did versus Hearns in 1981 during he 13 rounds...that drove him between the ropes, that is a differnt story...That simply was "fighting", which is another great attribure that Ray had..However, Roy could...we never know, but Roy could be soo much faster that he would have overshelmed Hearns and not had ot show that "fighting" attribute that ray pulled out time and time again.

Can't fault a fighter for being soo dommmned good and fast that he avoides having to dig deep, because he is simply that fast. I think we may have witnessed that with Roy, as now that I think about it...had Hearns stepped up to fight him, he gets beaten, Duran too small, hagler to slow, Leonard not big enough...The type of fighter to beat Roy would be Gerald McCllelan tall and physical for middleweights with speed and oh yes a previous victory as an amateur over Roy, also pound per pound great in Duran..at middleweight would beat Roy IMO...but outside of that....I can not see Roy at his peak having issues with anyone else. Hagler simply would get destroyed by the speed and power combination of Roy...Styles makes fights, and while that was a older Hagler leonard faced, it alsw was a inactive Leonard for 5 years mostly. So ray was not a fast verson of himself. I think you can look at that fight in fast motion, and replace ray with Roy, and that is what Hagler would be facing....Never seen nothing like that in his life,,,,It would not be pretty sight for hagler unless roy went to to toe with him, which I do not see that happening.

Michael Frank
11-02-2007, 02:40 PM
One-two counter that dropped Reggie Johnson. Four left hooks vs. Bryant Brannon. Five jabs in 1 second vs Pazienza. Machine-gun flurry with power punches intermixed to finish Glenn Thomas. The finishing combination on the move vs Pazienza again. 3rd round vs Tony Thornton.

You got me. You're right. I failed to recall all of these, but really because I tend to remember his solo-shot lunges more prominently (vs. Toney, for example, and as he moved to the heavier weights).

wpink
11-03-2007, 10:24 AM
Was not there a 20 punch combination that he landed with out a single counter vs somebody?

Senya13
11-03-2007, 12:21 PM
He threw more than 30 punches vs Thornton without Tony throwing a single punch in return, when the referee stopped the fight.

wpink
11-03-2007, 03:43 PM
thanks

ultimo
11-07-2007, 10:32 AM
Roy Jones junior and Hector Camacho. Ali was fast but not fast fast like Jones jr. and Camacho Sr.

blv30
11-07-2007, 11:45 AM
Lightning Lonnie Smith is up there as well.

BDeskins
11-07-2007, 12:38 PM
>>>Was not there a 20 punch combination that he landed with out a single counter vs somebody?<<<

I'm pretty certain that he did that against Jorge Castro...two, or three times in that bout I believe.

Jones had the fastest hands that I can recall ever seeing, or if not the fastest...certainly in the top five. A lot of fighters are fast with the "shoe-shine," but to be accurate matters a lot and Jones was very accurate while throwing multiple punch combo's.

Mike Tyson had the fastest hands of any heavyweight that I remember seeing. Chris Byrd is another who was very, very fast, but rarely gets any play!

wpink
11-07-2007, 07:07 PM
I agree Ali might not be as fast at Camacho or Jones, but for a Heavyweight......Ali was blistering with hand and foot speed.

blv30
11-08-2007, 10:27 AM
>>>Was not there a 20 punch combination that he landed with out a single counter vs somebody?<<<

I'm pretty certain that he did that against Jorge Castro...two, or three times in that bout I believe.

Jones had the fastest hands that I can recall ever seeing, or if not the fastest...certainly in the top five. A lot of fighters are fast with the "shoe-shine," but to be accurate matters a lot and Jones was very accurate while throwing multiple punch combo's.

Mike Tyson had the fastest hands of any heavyweight that I remember seeing. Chris Byrd is another who was very, very fast, but rarely gets any play!

One fighter who never gets mentioned for being very fast for heavyweight is Mitch Green.That guy had some hands on him!

Sharkey
11-08-2007, 10:45 AM
Broken record alert here: in recent times, I gotta mention Corrie Sanders. Chris Byrd had fast hands? Tony Tubbs? Gimme Sanders over many and most. No Dokes, but blindingly quick mitts.

blv30
11-08-2007, 12:17 PM
Gotta add James Tillis also.Very fast.

hawk5ins
11-08-2007, 05:59 PM
Tillis was merely Quick.

Hawk

blv30
11-14-2007, 11:08 AM
Vinnie Pazienza oftens get overlooked in this category too. He was very fast.

Michael Frank
11-21-2007, 05:40 PM
During Patterson-Bonavena, announcer Dunphy states that Floyd has the fastest heavyweight hands (that was in 1972).

I'd agree.

Funny thing about Tillis . . . I watched him fight quite a bit, and I believe he lost every single time!

blv30
11-23-2007, 10:50 AM
During Patterson-Bonavena, announcer Dunphy states that Floyd has the fastest heavyweight hands (that was in 1972).

I'd agree.

Funny thing about Tillis . . . I watched him fight quite a bit, and I believe he lost every single time!

Well, after '83, he wasn't no real serious threat to the title.

JLP 6
11-26-2007, 12:21 PM
I will say the fastest punch I've ever seen land.

1. Hearns KO2 Duran. The fastest punch ever landed imo.
2. Leonard - in the Olympic's against some European guy. Leonard throws about thirty unanswered punches.
3. Taylor - Flurry in round 11 where Chavez backs out smiling.
4. Robinson - three punch combination followed by a vicious left hook in the first round of Fulmer II.
5. Tyson - the left hook/left uppercutt combination that put Ferguson down in the 5th or 6th round.

JaKob
02-19-2008, 07:25 PM
People seem to be forgetting its pound for pound... ones speed relative to weight right? im assuming the author of the question was meaning this. The best performance in this respect has to go to Ali and Tyson... both phenomenally quick considering they were over 210 pounds at their best. Just finished watching Liston vs Ali 1 again, his footspeed in that fight still astonishes me.

blv30
02-26-2008, 02:40 PM
People seem to be forgetting its pound for pound... ones speed relative to weight right? im assuming the author of the question was meaning this. The best performance in this respect has to go to Ali and Tyson... both phenomenally quick considering they were over 210 pounds at their best. Just finished watching Liston vs Ali 1 again, his footspeed in that fight still astonishes me.


If that the case, I'm picking Dokes, too, since he threw the fastest combos I've seen in the last 25-28 years at heavyweight.

walshb
02-27-2008, 08:06 AM
I'm throwing in Amir Khan to the mix. The guy is greasy fast. As fast as I have ever seen and with power....Unreal....

starlingstomp
03-03-2008, 03:06 PM
He's no Eddie Hopson

wpink
03-23-2008, 07:01 PM
I will say the fastest punch I've ever seen land.

1. Hearns KO2 Duran. The fastest punch ever landed imo.
2. Leonard - in the Olympic's against some European guy. Leonard throws about thirty unanswered punches.
3. Taylor - Flurry in round 11 where Chavez backs out smiling.
4. Robinson - three punch combination followed by a vicious left hook in the first round of Fulmer II.
5. Tyson - the left hook/left uppercutt combination that put Ferguson down in the 5th or 6th round.


I will have to say take a look at the punch ali landed vs Liston in the 2nd fight, and then the 1/2 punch that Roy dropped Reggie Johnson with. Amazingly fast. In fact there are many Roy Jones counters that are so split second fast that many of his opponents simply stopped swinging at him.