PDA

View Full Version : Mayweather vs. Hatton Results & Discussion 12/8/07



Pages : [1] 2

JohntheHammerHeyes
07-28-2007, 12:52 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/6920484.stm

Husker
07-29-2007, 05:24 PM
If Hatton is allowed to "grapple" he wins an excessively dull but close contest.

If he's not, Mayweather wins an excessively dull not so close contest.

Yawn.

Roberto Aqui
07-29-2007, 05:50 PM
http://i15.tinypic.com/53tjgio.jpg


If they fight in this ring, my $$$$$ is on Hatton. Put em in a soccer field, Floyd is gonna run away with it!

diggity
07-29-2007, 06:28 PM
As much as I love this fight, I don't think it will be very exciting. I'm just looking forward to PBF earning his money against someone who will make him fight hard all night long.

Husker
07-29-2007, 06:46 PM
diggity: Hatton will make him work because he'll never stop coming but the point I can't get past is you saying (and I agree 100%) it won't be exciting. At all. The new Hatton who unveiled himself against Tszyu is unwatchable to me and PBF has been also since he abandoned the agressive countering style he used beating Hernandez, Manfredy and Corrales.

To come off of that a little, PBF has shown flashes of brilliance but they are far and in between.

Hardcore boxing fan here. Salivating over Calzaghe-Kessler, Taylor-Pavlik, even curious to see what MAB has left against the Pac-Man.

PBF-Hatton? Could not care less to see this fight.

wolgast
07-29-2007, 11:21 PM
Terrible Move By Hatton! Floyd Needs Hatton To Make Money; Hatton Can Make Money Without Floyd. If Hatton Waits One Year, He Can Dictate Better Terms Than He Will Get Now. He Does Not Realize How Strong He Is On Tv And At The Gate. Floyd Is A "nowhere Man" And Hatton Will Revive Him. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb!

gregbeyer
07-30-2007, 12:48 AM
well....one thing we learned about pbf against dlh is that floyd doesn't fight when he is being attacked. i won't be surprised if ricky gives him fits.

mark that ...so you can all call me crazy later...but...maybe not.
greg

diggity
07-30-2007, 09:27 AM
He didnt attack so much against Castillo either...at least what I was able to stay awake for in those 2 fights.

bomma
07-30-2007, 11:01 AM
I agree with you guys he goes into his shell mode when he is being attacked and Hatton is even more aggressive then Castillo, plus PBF has been much more passive in the last couple of years. Could be a very close fight.

walshb
07-30-2007, 12:21 PM
I can't wait for this fight. It may well be a dull affair, but surely not as dull as
the Oscar fight with PBF....Hatton at least we all know will give absolute 100% and will be attacking non stop. Floyd will need to be ultra sharp and cute to outbox Ricky. Floyd will also need to really condition himself for 12 rds of action and his body will need to be rock solid to take Hatton's shots.
Hatton's chin is solid, well at least solid enough to take Floyd's punches.
Did they say what weight the fight will be at??

PeteLeo
08-01-2007, 05:02 PM
This fight was signed today. It's on for December 8. PeteLeo.

hawk5ins
08-01-2007, 05:36 PM
Why do I see a Welterweight version of Norton Young playing out here?

12 (not 15) rounds of "who won that round?" ugliness that will produce WILDLY diverse scorecards.

Given that I have Hatton in the role of Norton here in my analogy, Ricky wins a split duke (Woo Hoo!)! Everyone bitches. But no one wants to see a rematch.

Hawk

mrbig1
08-01-2007, 10:57 PM
Hatton will have his ass handed to him. I don't even see him winning a round. I will not buy this fight.

hagler04
08-02-2007, 12:39 PM
Why do I see a Welterweight version of Norton Young playing out here?

12 (not 15) rounds of "who won that round?" ugliness that will produce WILDLY diverse scorecards.

Given that I have Hatton in the role of Norton here in my analogy, Ricky wins a split duke (Woo Hoo!)! Everyone bitches. But no one wants to see a rematch.

Hawk

I agree. It's pretty clear how this will pan out. Floyd more passive, countering w/ crisper cleaner head shots. Hatton more aggressive, throwing more with more work to the body, arms (while his clean head shots will be scored with his own head)
It will all be about what one considers enough to win a round.

Floyd has always seemed to win these types of fights in the past with the judges (Castillo I, Oscar). Both fights I felt he came up short. Hatton better plug his conditioning into maximum overdrive. He will have to clearly win rounds and that means throw a shitload of punches.

mrbig1
08-02-2007, 06:39 PM
Agree 100%.

evander
08-02-2007, 07:34 PM
I'm really looking forward to this fight but you know it's going to be pretty boring.

mike 5150
08-17-2007, 07:37 AM
I'd just like to see Hatton in with a real good fighter in their prime. Castillo and Tsyzu were over the hill. I don't think anyone realized Vince Phillips was even still fighting. If Mayweather even comes close to fighting up to his potential this wouldn't even be close. But he probably won't. Both overrated.

diggity
09-19-2007, 09:18 AM
Who would have thought 6 years ago Hatton would be they guy up against PBF looking to take the P4P title & both still being undefeated. Whatever happens I think its great Hatton has this opportunity, he earned it the hard way (some may say arguably but that's a different topic) & he's a solid class character.

PBF toe to toe with Hatton?? Yeah right.

Enswell
09-26-2007, 02:48 PM
Anybody think age might be a factor in this fight? I know 30 isn't thought of as being old these days, but with Mayweathers style, just losing a step or two could be telling in this fight.

A tad off topic, but I think Floyd is getting screwed on "Dancing with the Stars". His score was the lowest, but the only guy I thought was clearly better was the race car driver.

bomma
09-26-2007, 04:44 PM
Floyd wasn't that great, though but should have gotten a better score. Why did they stick Cheryl Burke with Wayne Newton, she is a good reason to watch the show (very hot!) and she is going to be off in a few weeks. I like the one who danced with Apollo last year too, though she is a little young.

Off The River
09-26-2007, 11:26 PM
Maybe he ran away from his dance partner too.

walshb
09-27-2007, 04:47 PM
Found this rare clip on youtube of Floyd losing a controversial decision in the games of Atlanta 1996...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy1EETpZR5I

Man the computer scoring sucksssss

If anyone believes it's not relevant, please DELETE....

walshb
10-25-2007, 11:36 AM
No wonder Mayweather could have gone another 12 rds V Oscar. He did nothing in the first 12:)

wpink
10-28-2007, 08:47 PM
As this fight gets closer and closer, and the reports I am hearing out of Hattons camp, and the fact that he is getting a bit irratated by Mayweathers antics...I am thinking this may be a much closer fight than I previously thought.

Hatton is no Duran, but his style of coming rushing in and fighting on the inside being active and having some quick hands and feet himself, and one other thing Mayweather is not a natural welter like ray was...Hmmm this is starting to be very interesting to me.

One thing we know, Hatton is not going to fight a boring fight like Dlh and others did. I originally thought his style is perfectly made for Mayweather, and I do know that Mayweather is one of if not the best conditioned and prepared fighter around. So he will be at his bes, and judging from 3rd party witnesses in Hatton's camp, it seems Hatton will be as well.

Styles makes fights, and if they both fight, as regardless of many think, I strongly believe Mayweather ego, machoism...will not allow him to lay against the ropes and take a pounding early on. I believe if Hatton is true to his word and is on top of mayweather aggressivly from the start of the fight, then Mayweather is training physically for that type of fight and will make it a war when Hatton comes in. I am sure he will try to utilze his boxing abilities somewhat and have some success boxing, but he has never fought a fight like leonard did Duran II. He may move but not that much...So I believe that we are in for a great november and Dec of fights, with Kessler- Calzaghe, Cotto-Mosley, then to top it off Hatton-Mayweather. Wow.....this is great for boxing if these fights live up to their hype.

GanchoIzquierdo
10-29-2007, 08:15 AM
Hatton is taking this one.

walshb
11-13-2007, 02:56 PM
2007 has without doubt been a great year, but isn't it a little funny that the supposed best of the best on May 5th was such a letdown....
Hopefully Dec 8th can banish the memory of May 5th

wildhawke11
11-13-2007, 06:04 PM
Walshb
I maybe in the minority but i agree with you, and after all Mayweathers big talk before that fight. In regard to the Hatton fight as Ricky said "I can understand Mayweather insulting me in public that's part and parcel of selling the fight" But he also did it off camera which Hatton did not like. Ricky went on to say "Ali did it also, but there was always a twinkle in Ali's eyes when he did it" I have an idea that Hatton will be up for this one big time. Personally i hope Ricky knocks his head off.

walshb
11-20-2007, 11:52 AM
Walshb
I maybe in the minority but i agree with you, and after all Mayweathers big talk before that fight. In regard to the Hatton fight as Ricky said "I can understand Mayweather insulting me in public that's part and parcel of selling the fight" But he also did it off camera which Hatton did not like. Ricky went on to say "Ali did it also, but there was always a twinkle in Ali's eyes when he did it" I have an idea that Hatton will be up for this one big time. Personally i hope Ricky knocks his head off.
I doubt we are in the minority. The mega fight on May 5th was a massivie hoax IMO.
Both fighters were very average and it was extremely overrated....

I just watched the first 24/7 episode and I have to say that Hatton has the perfect
attitude and mentality. I see in Hatton a steely determination and drive that separates
winners from losers. He is seriously seriously up for this fight. I don't think
PBF is as hungry or driven and may be a little too blase about the whole affair.

I understand that talent is so important and PBF has bags of it, but attitude and
mentality are so important. Hatton appears to me as a guy who really believes he's
unbeatable. That''s a scary thought for PBF....

rocky111
11-20-2007, 07:43 PM
i would love Hatton to win if the match was at 140. The key here is Ricky's fast legs which get you to the guy and once there Ricky may be boss. But at 147 I dont know. He definitely looked slower against Colozzo. I know hes stronger than Floyd at any weight, but can he get to him? I dont know if he can at 147 but at 140 I would have picked Hatton who has the fast legs going forward Ive seen since Duran at 135.

walshb
11-21-2007, 03:01 PM
I can't see a difference to be honest with PBF and Hatton no matter what weight they fight at. Both are IMO not natural or strong welters and even if Hatton comes in at 143 or so, I don't see it being a problem for him.
Should Ricky be the same or very close to the shape and form he was for Castillo, then leg speed won't be significant. Hatton once he is fully prepared and focused will be in top physical shape. I really believe he was just sluggish at 147 because he was basically not having a good day.....just not in FORM, it happens all the time when fighters have off nights....

rocky111
11-21-2007, 04:16 PM
seven pounds many times make a difference in the legs. it took away Fraziers legs. Its dangerous when your legs make you the fighter you are and in ricks case I think his fast legs do the job.

walshb
11-21-2007, 04:25 PM
It sure can make a difference. I just don't think Hatton will be all that
different mentally and physically than he was for Castillo.
I think he can afford to weigh in at 143 or so and still not be at a significant disadvantage.
Come fight night Hatton will be weighing maybe 154. What was his fight night weight in June? I don't see it being much less, if any, than Dec 8th....

I really think we will see Hatton as sharp, if not sharper, than the Castillo version....

diggity
11-21-2007, 05:07 PM
Hatton admittedly let off the gas in his training for Collazo knowing he had the extra weight to spare & also did not have a full camp. It was a terrible matchup as well as the timing all together. When Hatton has prepared properly he has been nothing short of solid. I doubt we will ever see him make a mistake like that again. Hatton certainly has a long night ahead of him but PBF is in for some hard work as well (& from the sounds of it he may not even expect it), thats for sure.

HE Grant
11-21-2007, 06:24 PM
I really do appreciate Hatton but I do not see him doing anything better than Oscar did and I personally felt Floyd won that one easy. He is easy to dislike and no great hitter but Mayweather is great and will win this fight in a convincing manner.

walshb
11-21-2007, 06:31 PM
Hatton must be better than Oscar or he can't get any worse.
Oscar was bad, PBF was worse on May 5th.
How anyone thinks PBF won easy baffles me.
No offense to you, but what the hell did PBF
do, but run and cover up and run and cover up....

Hatton will not be as lethargic or cautious as Oscar was.
The May 5th fight was like a poor exhibition by two
amateurs, lacking any passion and heart.
It was almost staged, and poorly at that...

Ricky is going to go hell for leather and then we will see
if PBF really has the ring skills and speed and toughness to
beat Hatton down...

One thing I think is a sure thing, and that is that Hatton is coming
to not only fight, but to destroy and win...

Oscar didn't show us that or close to that on May 5th and PBF
did even less than Oscar....

diggity
11-21-2007, 07:31 PM
Hatton will show much more intensity than Oscar & will do better IMO. When was the last time Oscar put out 12 hard rounds anyway?

Crold1
11-22-2007, 01:02 AM
To answer you Dig, that would be the second fight with Shane. As to Hatton-PBF...I LOVE this fight. Loved it in the summer of 05, love it now. I think Hatton matches up better with Mayweather than anyone around 47 except maybe Williams. Hatton is dramatically underrated and has the best combination of hand and foot speed Floyd has ever faced. Will he win? I can't pick him, but I belive it's a great fight. No shock if it's a highly argued about draw.

Paulie W
11-22-2007, 12:52 PM
The British press is going big on this fight. There seems to be near daily coverage - which I dont remember seeing since the days of McGuigan-Pedroza - and there was even a lengthy Hatton story in one of the glossy magazine supplements that come with the Sunday newspapers which are normally reserved for the great and the good.

The recurring themes are: if Hatton wins he's no.1 P4P in the world and the best British fighter of all time. The former isnt quite true IMO and the latter is a long way from being so.

The other recurring message is that Hatton is already in great shape and is pretty damn confident. And it seems like real, measured confidence rather than the kind of bravado that comes with the boxing territory. He recognises just how good Floyd is but also recognises what he does that will negate some of Mayweather's strengths and enable him to win.

Maybe he's in fact terrified but I'm impressed and from thinking that Floyd would win handily on points I'm now moving towards picking Hatton in an upset.

walshb
11-22-2007, 12:58 PM
Hatton is simply in the ZONE and he looks to me like a man on a serious mission.
His preparation seems perfect and his confidence is brimming....
This guy wants victory so so so bad and PBF is in for
one hell of a tough hard night...

Let's hope Hatton doesn't cut!!!!!

HE Grant
11-22-2007, 01:39 PM
Mayweather was brilliant against a very game, motivated, well conditioned Oscar. He out boxed him, refused to be muscled, was rarely hit flush in the entire fight and out punched Oscar. He did this against a much bigger man.

I do not think Hatton is stronger, hits as hard or is as fast as that Oscar. I think he gets hit a lot easier and Maywether will beat him cleaner and easier than Whitaker did Chavez. He might even stop him.

walshb
11-22-2007, 01:43 PM
Mayweather was brilliant against a very game, motivated, well conditioned Oscar. He out boxed him, refused to be muscled, was rarely hit flush in the entire fight and out punched Oscar. He did this against a much bigger man.

I do not think Hatton is stronger, hits as hard or is as fast as that Oscar. I think he gets hit a lot easier and Maywether will beat him cleaner and easier than Whitaker did Chavez. He might even stop him.

Game and motivated?
I seriously doubt that.
Staged and conned more like it.
Oscar didn't even have a basic jab
PBF did more running than fighting....

To me that fight was a farce and a big big letdown...

If PBF does a number on a well prepared Hatton, I will
be the first to recognise PBF as a super talent...

greek1237
11-22-2007, 02:05 PM
Better than Ted Kid Lewis??? I dont think so.

rocky111
11-22-2007, 08:28 PM
Oscar had NOTHING against Floyd. Even his punches had no snap. He didnt look like he had much against Mosely the second time either. The good life has sapped the kid.

Ron Lipton
11-22-2007, 10:05 PM
Amen,

This will do it all the time no matter how hard you combine hard training with women, partying and not being hungry.

As to PBF, the reason he fights like he does whether it is a winning formula which it is, is that anyone can see he is living the life of a multi millionare.

He has to run, stay defense minded and pick apart from the outside, he is not a fighter's fighter or a man's man in that ring. He is a skilled and wonderful athlete who can roll, slip and slide with fast hands.

Hatton is a real warrior, not Floyd. His light skin will probably start bleeding early which will be a shame as he could make this a great fight IF he had one punch knockout power which he does not have at all despite the Maussa KO.

I like Ricky and his work ethic, but he takes too long to get KO shots off.
If he Marciano'd this guys arms, shoulders and entire torso all night long it would pay off in spades, and then go for the chin in a lightning like fashion in the exchanges. He has to stay busy bruising Floyd up al night long, despite PBF acting like it does not bother him.

Come at him like a hypnotized man blazing away all night long and it will pay off like a lucky slot.

evander
11-22-2007, 11:08 PM
Amen,

This will do it all the time no matter how hard you combine hard training with women, partying and not being hungry.

As to PBF, the reason he fights like he does whether it is a winning formula which it is, is that anyone can see he is living the life of a multi millionare.

He has to run, stay defense minded and pick apart from the outside, he is not a fighter's fighter or a man's man in that ring. He is a skilled and wonderful athlete who can roll, slip and slide with fast hands.

Hatton is a real warrior, not Floyd. His light skin will probably start bleeding early which will be a shame as he could make this a great fight IF he had one punch knockout power which he does not have at all despite the Maussa KO.

I like Ricky and his work ethic, but he takes too long to get KO shots off.
If he Marciano'd this guys arms, shoulders and entire torso all night long it would pay off in spades, and then go for the chin in a lightning like fashion in the exchanges. He has to stay busy bruising Floyd up al night long, despite PBF acting like it does not bother him.

Come at him like a hypnotized man blazing away all night long and it will pay off like a lucky slot.


Agreed.

Rafael
11-22-2007, 11:28 PM
Hatton needs to use more upper body motion instead of constantly clinching to give more fluidity to his attack and get a more seamless offense-defense switch going. As it is, he constantly trumps his own ebb-and-flow by forcing the ref to step-in and break the clinches. An offensive-minded swarmer a la Joe Frazier or even Juan Diaz nowadays very seldom looks to initiate clinches, like Hatton does so often. More side-to-side movement and less clinching would result in a much more efficient style, both defensively and offensively. Just my two cents.

diggity
11-23-2007, 11:45 AM
PBF better than Ali? He seems to think so.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/7109353.stm

walshb
11-23-2007, 12:13 PM
He could be setting himself up for one almighty fall!!!!

TKO11
11-23-2007, 01:12 PM
They start groups on Facebook for virtually anything, but I just noticed one called "I Hope Ricky Hatton Gives Floyd Mayweather a Fucking Good Hiding." And it has 89,000 members.

walshb
11-23-2007, 02:48 PM
Amen,

This will do it all the time no matter how hard you combine hard training with women, partying and not being hungry.

As to PBF, the reason he fights like he does whether it is a winning formula which it is, is that anyone can see he is living the life of a multi millionare.

He has to run, stay defense minded and pick apart from the outside, he is not a fighter's fighter or a man's man in that ring. He is a skilled and wonderful athlete who can roll, slip and slide with fast hands.

Hatton is a real warrior, not Floyd. His light skin will probably start bleeding early which will be a shame as he could make this a great fight IF he had one punch knockout power which he does not have at all despite the Maussa KO.

I like Ricky and his work ethic, but he takes too long to get KO shots off.
If he Marciano'd this guys arms, shoulders and entire torso all night long it would pay off in spades, and then go for the chin in a lightning like fashion in the exchanges. He has to stay busy bruising Floyd up al night long, despite PBF acting like it does not bother him.

Come at him like a hypnotized man blazing away all night long and it will pay off like a lucky slot.

I agree he hasn't got one punch KO power or at least it seems that way, but I think he definitely has the capability to take Floyd out if he connects clean and flush to the body.
Easier said than done, but Floyd I think is going to hurt real bad if Hatton can constantly get too close..

By the way I have a bet on for Hatton to win by TKO 11..

Can someone tell me precisely what that prediction means.

If Floyd does NOT answer the bell for rd 12, is that TKO 11 win for Hattton??

I know that if Floyd gets stopped during the 11th, I win my bet, but please explain the result if he doesn't answer the bell for rd 12?

Also, KO/TKO can be quite ambiguous at times. My impression of a KO is a fighter
who is felled by a legal blow and does not get to his feet before the referee reaches the count of ten...

I'd hate to think that maybe Hatton knocks Floyd down for say a count of 8 and then the referee calls a halt because Floyd is shaky or wobbly and then the result reads KO win for Hatton, when it should be TKO win for Hatton...

There's a lot of money riding on this and you know the bookies can be very sticky and clever when they want to refuse paying out....

I got 66/1 on my bet.......

Advice would be greatly appreciated....

hawk5ins
11-23-2007, 03:03 PM
If the Bell rings for the start of the next round and the fighter/corner opts not to continue, it is a TKO win in the round that the bell rung for. IE Ali TKO15 Frazier.

If the corner stops a bout PRIOR to the bell ringing for the start of next round, then it is a TKO win in the round that just completed.

Hawk

walshb
11-23-2007, 03:19 PM
Appreciated Hawk...

Any info as regards my KO/TKO scenario?

This is where I think I could be done in......

hagler04
11-23-2007, 04:05 PM
HBO's first 24/7 episode of Hatton-PBF was better than any done for Oscar-Floyd. The footage from Hatton's Manchester gym was great. I really do think Hatton's incredible ability to switch angles and footspeed will give Floyd lots of problems. The closest in footspeed and angle-giving Floyd has faced in the past 5 years is Judah and I think Floyd won a close one there 7-5 (and Zab is not the calibre of fighter Hatton is)

Has the ref been named yet? He'll be more important than the judges.

hawk5ins
11-23-2007, 04:20 PM
On how it's called.

Think about this: TECHNICALLY, Holmes Cooney should have ended via 13round DQ for Holmes becuase Valle stepped in the ropes. Mills Lane however used common sense and called it a TKO victory for Larry.

Hawk

walshb
11-23-2007, 04:29 PM
That's a bit annoying really, especially when betting is involved. There should be some sort of definite. Either way, I just realised that it won't apply to my bet as I have Hatton simply to win in RD 11....How he does it is NOT important, again, thanks for the INFO....

I have a sneaky feeling the ref will play a massive part in this fight.
Let's hope he's not too picky about Hatton's 'rough house' tactics.
A fair fight is all I am looking for......

wpink
11-23-2007, 09:09 PM
I hate Mayweather too. My wife and I were looking at 24/7 and she says I hate his attitude. Then we watched Hatton and the things he said made me simply say, "You know what, I generally like a cocky attitude, but Mayweather goes to far overboard. He and his family disrespect the game, their opposition, great fighers before them and fans who probably are not as financial secure as they are in these tougher and tougher times". I hope he loses too. That being said. I dont think he will.

I save this debate for this board, because by far this board has the most intelligent, thought provoking debaters I have ever debated. When I go back and review the post, I have say you guys know your stuff.

I ask you all to do this. Put your biases aside (Lol,,this is not a Sugar Ray Leonard topic ...so mine is aside too...lol) and discuss this topic using the same scales for Mayweather as we do those we compare him too or against.

My thoughts are that we are not appreciating the true talents that we see in him. No it is not crowd Pleasing. Yes his mought writes checks, that bounce when the fight plays itself out. However are we asking to much, and did others that moved up give us more, or do we simply want to remember that they did?.

Many rant and rave about Willie Pepp defensive genious and rank him up there with the best of all time. Then when we discuss Mayweather many slamm him because of his defensive abilitiees, or even safe tendenciies. However it has never cost him a fight. Yes he had a close fight with Castillo the first time, and DlH, but hasent every other fighter had a close fight. Mayweather also is fighting 19 pounds north of his originl wieght. Almost always vs bigger guys, but yet and still he has never been truly hurt, knocked down, lost etc... Most of the time, he has won the fights rather easily, and contrary to popular myth he has no ducked anyone (maybe Kstyzu) that truly honestly deserved a fight with him. He has fought very very good opposition, and beaten them all. He has not negotiated favorable terms like some others we know of (hmmmm Leonard DlH) in fact he has fought several in their back yard, and actually gave up every imaginable term possibe in the DlH fight to get a chance at the Diva...and beat him.

Many talk about his lack of Superstars to face..That is true. How I wish DLH and Mosley would have been younger and Mosley had not of lost,,as we could have gotten to see how he did vs a Young Mosley, but that never happend..in part because Mosely has put off a fight with Mayweather for a long while now.

Finally, Mayweather skills are second to none when you simply focus on the skills department. Not crowd pleasing stuff, or power, but simple boxing skills, defensive skills, movment, angles, body punching, ring generlship, combinations... The guy is second to none when you add it all up. Am I saying he is the best ..NO. What I am saying is, I always hear nothing but negative stuff about him, and that is fine, but once we say our opinions about him as a person, can we be honest and say that he is simply a great great talent.

It is unfortunate that their is not a Duran or a Pryor around that would truly test him at 135 or 140. To test him out at 147 vs a Leoanrd or Hearns is simply not fair as he would get destroyed by these two fighters at welterwight. I already know what debate that brings up, and I am not going there, however I will say this, at 130 -135 he had all the tools. Maybe he woud not have been able to hold off a prime durna or Sanchez, but TODAY in this era...since Duran vacated lightweight I have say he is the best to come since then.

Remember I know most hate him, including me, but what I am looking for is us to set aside our bias and diiscuss. If you can state at the beginning of your post that this is unbased and then attack or support then great..

Hmm where do you rank him if he convincingly beats hatton then cotto?

Rafael
11-23-2007, 11:23 PM
I have a sneaky feeling the ref will play a massive part in this fight. Let's hope he's not too picky about Hatton's 'rough house' tactics.
A fair fight is all I am looking for......

I agree with this. I hope the referee keeps it fair by not allowing any excessive holding, holding-and-hitting, headbutting, or any other illegal tactics. For instance, I thought Robert Byrd ruined Hopkins-Wright by allowing Hopkins to do all of that holding w/o any consequences. How many times are you supposed to softly warn someone before issuing hard warnings and/or point deductions? That was really unacceptable, IMO. That turns the referee into one of the main determinants of the fight outcome.

HE Grant
11-24-2007, 08:01 AM
After Floyd convincingly outboxes, busts up and beats Hatton, you guys will still be saying all the same excuses ... the truth is that Mayweather is a great fighter while Hatton is not. Period.

walshb
11-24-2007, 08:12 AM
HEGrant, you are almost as cocky as PBF, and you may like him, get the shock of your life:D

HE Grant
11-24-2007, 09:02 AM
I assure you it has nothing to do with cocky ... it is based on level of oppositon and the fights I have seen them in ... I am no huge Floyd fan ... if Hatton remains competitive after four rounds I'd be very happy ... I jus try to no longer put my personal feelings for a fighter over my gut instincts ... I can also be wrong as proven here many times ...

Rafael
11-24-2007, 11:17 PM
I just saw Casamayor-Santa Cruz, and this is another great example of a referee (Steve Smoger) doing a butcher job by letting Casamayor hold repeatedly w/o even administering a soft warning. I think overlooking (or being lenient towards) excessive holding is really killing many fights from the fans' perspective (not to mention that it also unfairly helps some fighters). It is beyond me why this has gained so much acceptability among the mainstream.

KOJOE90
11-25-2007, 11:08 AM
Can anyone else see a DQ happening in this fight?

After a few rounds Hatton annoys Mayweather Jr by holding then Hatton works io the body, Floyd slips to the side and gets hit low/borderline a few times and Camp Mayweather goes nuts and storms the ring?

Just a thought.

Todd
11-25-2007, 11:18 AM
Floyd Mayweather is a complete douchebag, but he's also 10 times faster than anyone Hatton has ever fought. I'm not inflating Floyd—I just can't think of anyone Hatton has fought with any kind of speed other than Collazo, and Hatton was in all kinds of trouble from it.

I'm really pulling for Hatton but can't pick him. I'd have more confidence if Hatton were coming off a tough fight with Judah. I think Mayweather is going to run away with it after a few close, ugly rounds at the beginning. Hatton is more willing to get hit than Baldomir, Corley, Sosa, etc., which makes him more likely to be stopped. I hope I'm wrong. Hatton's best chance is to catch Floyd early as he did Castillo.

Kurant
11-25-2007, 04:43 PM
I personally think Hatton's success depends on who the ref is, and how much holding and bull charging he allows. I think you'll see Mayweather clinch more in this fight, then any other in his career. But, Floyd has the best footwork, is a smarter fighter, and slips punches better then any fighter in the game. Hatton may pressure him, but Hatton only has one speed - and Floyd is an outstanding fighter going backwards.

Hatton is going to have to have a little more craft then just going forward to beat Floyd.

Floyd points him to death in a 12 round snoozer.

rocky111
11-26-2007, 03:38 PM
Styles make fights. The moment I saw Joe Frazier against Eddie Machen I said to all who were around. "This is the only guy to beat Ali thats around". No matter how great a boxer you are a guy who pressures takes it away from you if he can get in there. That is written in stone. If Hattons legs take him in there on a consistant basis, we could see the upset. hes the only guy out there who could do this to Floyd> Oscar? He was never in that fight and only lost by a about 3 or 4 rounds and was never in trouble. Ricky could surprise.......

bomma
11-26-2007, 04:18 PM
Rock, I agree completely. I do think Cotto and Williams would have a chance as well too though.

DscribeDC
11-26-2007, 04:42 PM
Much as I would love to see Hatton win, I have visions of Mayweather playing matador to Hatton's bull all night long.

Michael Frank
11-26-2007, 08:47 PM
Hi Pink, my colleague--

Yes, you know already I can't stand PBF. Any of these HBO specials brings out the (self)-degrading behavior within him, and his talk, to me, is just garbage. He convinces no one with intelligence, just the yes-men around him. With his flaunting of his money at every turn, in the most tasteless ways possible, he looks and acts the role of a pimp or drug dealer. I am surprised he doesn't have a gold front tooth.

Admitting my dislike for him up front, and looking at his record: I'd give him credit for beating Hatton, one of the few opponents I'll give him credit for, if he beats him. A guy with a championship and who isn't past his prime. Most of the others were not very good or near the end of their careers.

Generally, when I look at Floyd, I see a well-conditioned Roger Mayweather (the boxer, not the trainer) but with a better chin and defense than Roger, minus the power. Nothing incredible, and, to me, Roger actually was a better fighter EXCEPT--and this is big--except for the chin. In boxing, a weak chin = failure at the top levels, if not at the lower ones.

I watch Floyd fight and I see no special talents but speed. I usually enjoy watching speed, even when in a comparatively light hitter such as Howard Davis, Jr.--but I get no pleasure watching PBF.

The biggest reason? I know your premise was to remove this element, but . . . it's his mouth. The bragging. He leads me to believe he going to just KILL somebody and then he almost never comes close. And these guys he beats, to me, are not even "somebodies," historically. An over-the-hill DLH being best.

Had Tommy Hearns bragged about how he was going to destroy each opponent, I wouldn't have liked it, but I'd have admitted he DID what he said. Floyd doesn't beat anyone in the thrilling and decisive way Hearns did (who does?), but he sure talks like he will. And I'm tired of it at my age.

You're not kidding that Ray, Tommy, and Aaron would kill Mayweather. But I also like Sanchez over him, and Sweat Pea over him. At 130, I like Arguello over him (based on Alexis's performance at that weight; otherwise would favor the RUNNING Floyd against Alexis at other weights). I like the more gifted, and at a younger age, Meldrick Taylor over Floyd. These are just the relatively modern guys.

I also don't ever watch PBF's fights, and not out of dislike for him. His fights bore me. Even if I dislike a fighter, as I did Tyson and Duran, I'll watch his fights when I know he's a special talent, or there's some reason to find him entertaining, such as KO power or determination, etc. I have never found such a reason to watch Floyd. When I see the reruns of his fights, my initial avoidance is nearly always justified.

I respect your judgment, but at the bottom of it all I wonder, "Why do you like this guy so much, even as a fighter?" My reasons for not liking him are not just mine.

Just my opinion. Have a great day.

mrbig1
11-26-2007, 11:27 PM
This fight could be Gatti vs Mayweather 2

Off The River
11-26-2007, 11:56 PM
Hatton is no Gatti. He will be in the best shape of his life for this fight and he will be relentless the whole night. If he has the right ref, he will give Mayweather hell untill the final bell or Mayweather wilts under the nonstop agression.

walshb
11-27-2007, 03:08 AM
Hatton is no Gatti. He will be in the best shape of his life for this fight and he will be relentless the whole night. If he has the right ref, he will give Mayweather hell untill the final bell or Mayweather wilts under the nonstop agression.
Agreed and also, PBF IMO is not near the FORM that he was V Gatti. He hasn't got that
brilliance now and this will lead to Ricky being able to close the distance, get close and unload effectively, leaving PBF in a crumpled heap.....

walshb
11-27-2007, 09:41 AM
Are there any suggestions that this fight could eclipse Oscar's fight with PBF, in terms
of PPV sales???

DscribeDC
11-27-2007, 12:12 PM
I like Hatton, but what I'm hearing, I fear, is the sound of wishful thinking. You may hate him, but I think Mayweather has too many skills to succumb to Hatton's pressure tactics.

diggity
11-27-2007, 12:39 PM
That's kind of where I'm at. I do believe Hatton has a better chance than most but as history has sometimes shown, people become a bit gunshy in the presence of speed. If he did not struggle so much with Collazo I would have a much easier time picking Hatton & later being wrong about it. Between the Hatton grapple & the fact PBF has not been in a fight I would watch again in years, I see a close but boring PBF points win that nobody wants a repeat of.

hawk5ins
11-27-2007, 12:54 PM
But it has to be pressure with substance behind it. Not wrestling tactics.

Jose Luis Castillo was succcessful agianst Floyd becuase along with his pressure, he was throwing on the inside and when he got Floyd against the ropes. So successful was he that I had him winnining the first bout by 3 points and although an unpopular scorecard, I had it a draw in the rematch.

Hatton HAS to WORK when he gets Floyd agianst the ropes. He can't fall into a clinch and wrestle.

I would LOVE to see Hatton do this, but I'm not sure he has the discipline to constantly WORK when he has Floyd like this.

Rather than A Ali Frazier analogy here, I would probably liken this to Ali Chuvalo. Hatton works and pressures and get's his man up agianst the ropes, then doesnt' do anything effective with his hands and simply wrestles and mauls.

To paraphrase Larry Merchant on his comments on ALi Chuvalo during the Holmes Berbick bout on HBO: "Hatton will work all round to get Mayweather right where he wants him and then Floyd will beat him up."

Hope I'm wrong. But based on what we HAVE seen of Hatton, I really can't come to any other conclusion logically.

Hawk

starlingstomp
11-27-2007, 02:55 PM
Can't really didsagree with most of the viewpoints here.

If Hatton was a sharper and superior offensive fighter then i could see him posing severe issues for Mayweather.As it is he's unlikely to get enough clean scoring shots through Floyd's D.

I will be surprised if it's a fight Floyd manages to look real good in, as Hatton has that Antuofermo-esque ability to suck the life right out fights and make rounds close and hard to score without really landing much.

hagler04
11-27-2007, 03:42 PM
But it has to be pressure with substance behind it. Not wrestling tactics.

Jose Luis Castillo was succcessful agianst Floyd becuase along with his pressure, he was throwing on the inside and when he got Floyd against the ropes. So successful was he that I had him winnining the first bout by 3 points and although an unpopular scorecard, I had it a draw in the rematch.

Hatton HAS to WORK when he gets Floyd agianst the ropes. He can't fall into a clinch and wrestle.

I would LOVE to see Hatton do this, but I'm not sure he has the discipline to constantly WORK when he has Floyd like this.

Rather than A Ali Frazier analogy here, I would probably liken this to Ali Chuvalo. Hatton works and pressures and get's his man up agianst the ropes, then doesnt' do anything effective with his hands and simply wrestles and mauls.

To paraphrase Larry Merchant on his comments on ALi Chuvalo during the Holmes Berbick bout on HBO: "Hatton will work all round to get Mayweather right where he wants him and then Floyd will beat him up."

Hope I'm wrong. But based on what we HAVE seen of Hatton, I really can't come to any other conclusion logically.

Hawk

Chuvalo's work-rate was pretty decent. If we're going to make HW analogy, I'd say look at Arturo Godoy. VERY similar to Hatton . . quick-footed, excellent stamina, loved to get in close and maul/wrestle/foul.

hawk5ins
11-27-2007, 03:55 PM
As long as we are moving away from the Frazier Comparison, we are headed in the right direction.

IMO making Ricky Hatton analogous to Joe Frazier is like Peeing in the shower after eating some Asparagus. It doesn't smell quite right.

Hawk

rocky111
11-27-2007, 04:50 PM
Ricky Hatton has stopped Jose Luis Castillo and Kostya Tsysu recently. There are more ways of stopping and hurting other boxers than the one sharp punch type of offense. I seem to remember Mustapha Hamsho beating down Benitez and Czyz also. Mauling and pulling and tearing and pushing does break down fighters for other things.

starlingstomp
11-27-2007, 05:14 PM
Well i agree that you don't need to be super crisp offensively to be effective.

Just not sure that Hatton is quite good enough at it to beat Mayweather.He's not exactly Gene Fullmer.

Not a Hamsho adcovate-one of the very worst of the notable 80s middles in my eyes.He's one of the prime examples i would point to when looking at the limitations of this way of fighting(Fullmer being one of the best on the other hand).

That said, i do think Hatton is much better and more precise than Hamsho was.His footwork alone makes him far more dangerous.

hawk5ins
11-27-2007, 05:45 PM
And Benitez at 160 pounds (BTW, I do recall reading somewhere that Benitez was completely shot for Hearns, "should have been banned from ever fightiing agian, was I think the phrase and his loss to Hamsho was evidence of this, But thank god THOSE roads don't have to be travelled down any more), where Wilfred clearly was no where near his best and still you have wonder about the accusation that Benitez fought the way he did to get out of his contract with Jim Jacobs. I mean his gameplan simply made no sense. If ever I were to give credence to a fighter throwing a fight (and we know it happens all the time *wink*), I'm not sure is at all similar to what Hatton will be facing with Mayweather.

Certainly Floyd and Czyz are nothing at all alike. And Benitez (despite the chicanery I have alluded to in this fight) never fought before at 160 and really doesn't fight at all like Mayweather.

I agree that Hatton is superior to Hamsho. But Floyd right now is also vastly superior to Czyz and THAT version of Benitez, who I don't think, gave an honest effort that afternoon.

Hawk

Todd
11-27-2007, 07:59 PM
Has the ref been named yet? He'll be more important than the judges.
Boxrec lists Joe Cortez as the ref, and Paul Smith, Dave Moretti, and Burt Clements as the judges.

doomeddisciple
11-27-2007, 09:56 PM
Interesting. Cortez sometimes lets you go on the inside, sometimes not. Certainly better news for Camp Hatton than having Nady there, who will break when you look like clinching.

However - I just found out the fight is 65 USD on PPV through Time Warner - so I will most likely not watch this fight live now and wait for youtube in utter disgust.

We always talk about how hard boxing makes it to enjoy our sport and this sort of prohibative pricing is just ludicrous.

DirecTV's website it's $54.95 but I doubt if that is the price for us convicts in Australia.

HARDTIMES
11-28-2007, 02:50 PM
Hatton by stoppage. I don't think Floyd has ever been hit as hard as he will get hit on this night. He simply won't be able to doge all the shots, and Hatton has power, and very fast hands.

TDKO
11-28-2007, 05:23 PM
An observation.....

While watching the 2nd episode of Mayweather/Hatton 24/7, PBF showed how
he was getting his hands treated, and how he was having problems with them, (that hand waxing is not done to repair hands, it is done to smooth and
moisturize the skin, an old girlfriend would do that for me as she practiced for beauty school), and thought, why would he show a weakness on camera?
Could it be a built in excuse if he loses on points that his hands were hurt?
He will have to hit Hatton often, to keep him off......
I remember seeing RJR in the lockeroom before his first fight with Tarver,
he looked old and tired, and when interviewed, said something about, "this is a tough game, etc....),and barely scratched out a win......kind of a pre excuse......

walshb
11-30-2007, 08:22 AM
I would just like to gauge the CBZ view on the Hatton-Mayweather fight and get their expert
prediction on who will win and in what fashion. Just a simple vote and a quick quick point on what fashion the victory is decided...

I'm going with Hatton by TKO11

Overhand_Right
11-30-2007, 09:08 AM
I'm going with Hatton, and not because i'm British. I don't think Mayweathers anywhere near as good as people seem to think he is. The papers over here are describing him as 'not far off Ali and Robinson'. Pretty frickin fanciful.

DLH lost that fight rather than Mayweather won it. He could only squeeze by a 35 yr old multi-squillionaire. Hattons gonna be all over him, all night. No matter how messed around he gets, he'll keep coming. Hatton will take this him into the trenches & eventually come out on top.

IMO, anyhow.

DscribeDC
11-30-2007, 01:45 PM
Mayweather by majority decision.

Juan C Ayllon
11-30-2007, 02:25 PM
Although I'd be tickled if Hatton won it, if pressed, I'd pick Mayweather by unanimous decision or mid-to-late-rounds stoppage.

Regards,


Juan C. Ayllon

starlingstomp
11-30-2007, 02:44 PM
Mayweather close decision

evander
11-30-2007, 02:44 PM
Mayweather by dec...again!

Rafael
11-30-2007, 05:49 PM
I'm wishing for a double KO or double DQ.

diggity
11-30-2007, 09:29 PM
I'm wishing for a double KO or double DQ.
Somehow your post doesn't surprise me ;)

Elwill7847
11-30-2007, 10:30 PM
Likely result is Mayweather by decision. However, I could see Hatton outhustling him.

Phillyfan
12-01-2007, 12:06 AM
pretty boy by decision.

Phillyfan
12-01-2007, 12:18 AM
what the hell, might as well keep my losing streak going. I had eagles over patriots. mayweather by knockout.

Todd
12-01-2007, 01:46 AM
Mayweather by clear decision.

Ron Lipton
12-01-2007, 02:41 AM
I would love to see Hatton take this one because of the decent way he conducts himself out of that ring and the respect he shows everyone.

I do not like the way he baloons up in weight torturing himself back down to get ripped between 140-47 at his short height. His powerful legs and grim determination are assets but his light and tight skin around his cheekbones and eyes are not.

I have watched the films of Ricky training and manuvering on pivots and then firing his combinations as viciously as he is able to. To the general audience as someone who comes in to watch fighters train this looks impressive but I see it differently. A determined warrior yes, but what he is doing is not fast enough or deadly enough as to stopping power plus speed in delivery that cannot be avoided.

At the level he is executing at while ripping off combinations they do not have the Ike Williams (135lb) kind of power that stopped Beau Jack, nor does he have the Tony DeMarco 5'5" welter kind of roundhouse power that stopped Johnny Saxton or the Basilio kind of power at 5'6" that put down Kid Gavilan and Ike Williams.

PBF despite all his skills, speed and reflexes and undefeated status is not unstoppable. His gifts of reflexes, hand speed . manuverability, timing and ring generalship from the Roy Jones jr fairy have served him well, is this his Antonio Tarver time or Glenn Johnson one shot loss time, I don't think so.

To try and Jake Lamotta PBF now without getting cut to pieces, outpointed,
and nullified with PBF's totally boring way of dealing with aggression will be
one of the twelve labors of Hercules.

He is not ready to give up his bling money yet to a guy who is an equally short not taller Jr Welterweight fighting for the welterweight tiara, does not have one punch KO power despite the Maussa left hook, while PBF rolls, covers up, grabs, pin points his shots from the outside like he did with Gatti and chops away at the fair skinned lad from across the pond.

HOWEVER, this guy does not like getting mauled and if Unlce Roger the Dodger doesn't jump in the ring complaining to the referee whoever that might be, and if Hatton is permitted to Jake Lamotta this guy and work him over as in a phone booth, PBF will have a Tazmanian devil on his hands if Hatton can keep his FACE down and out of the way and jump on him like Gene Fullmer did to Gil Turner. However, Turner a welter fought Fullmer back like a maniac, as will PBF and it is only during those moments that Hatton can win but he must have one punch KO power and one punch speed that he has not shown us before to clip this guy in an exchange, hurt him and keep him hurt.

Looks like Floyd Mayweather jr by TKO before 10 rounds on paper. Yet in that ring Hatton has more intergrity and class plus Marciano determination and that could do it if he can pour it on non stop like we have never seen before without getting chopped up.

Enswell
12-01-2007, 04:48 AM
I don't know why exactly, but I see Mayweather folding in this one. I know he doesn't have a track record in this regard, so it really isn't a logical prediction, but it's just a feeling I can't shake. I think Hatton is going to pressure him in a way he's not used to, and he'll find a way out before the final bell. Hatton by late stoppage.

HE Grant
12-01-2007, 07:45 AM
I truly admire Hatton as a person and a fighter. However, after seeing him get slapped all over the ring by Collazo, I just think he is in for a tough night stylewise against Floyd. While Floyd is annoying and easy to dislike, you cannot ignore his tremendous skills, his heart, his willingness to fight anyone and his exceptional conditioning. All the talk is about Ricky's shape but I'm sure Floyd at least matches him there as well. Mayweather is an exceptionally dedicated and conditioned athlete.

I see this as a very fast paced fight with Mayweather taking over late in the fight enough to clearly outpoint a game Hatton. Part of me does not think a Gatti like ultimate outcome is out of the question as Collazo almost had Ricky out but I think Hatton survives a scary moment or two and hangs tough...if his face holds up is another question.

PeteLeo
12-01-2007, 01:45 PM
"his willingness to fight anyone"?
I might question that assessment a bit. PeteLeo.

GanchoIzquierdo
12-01-2007, 02:02 PM
Hatton for me.

jim glen
12-01-2007, 02:08 PM
this fight has been troubling me for ages, and I'm still not sure how to pick it. My head says Mayweather and my heart says Mayweather and here's why...

I don't give a monkey's _uck about cheering for the home town boy (in my case British - Hatton), truth is I never have. I have always been a 'purist' and prefer the boxer over the fighter and the better/best man wins, simple, No Matter where he or I come from.

So for my money it's Mayweather, but if nyone can beat him it could quite easily be Hatton, Ricky is strong enough, 'possibly' more determined and quite durable, BUT if Hatton 'spoils' his way to a clinging & holding victory well he can have the win and all the British hype & BS that will follow with it...

On the other hand Mayweather is a vain, arrogant big mouth (with alot of talent), and like the good book says "first pride then the fall", so his time might be up.

If Ricky wins please 'earn' the decision and fight the man down, and likewise if PBF wins I hope he has to earn it and work hard mean while showing and proving his undoubted skill the whole way through.

I really can't pick and I am not attached to either, but for the sport I'll pick "the Boxer" by decision!

rocky111
12-01-2007, 03:57 PM
I do it with a reservation being that I'm not sure Hatton is fast enough at 147 on his feet (I think Ricky is fast enough at 140) BUT Im picking Hatton by a wide uninamous decison. He gets in close and wrestles and punches and grinds and Im not sure Floyd Jr. wants all that at this point.

HE Grant
12-01-2007, 05:44 PM
Let's see. He's a guy who could easily still fight at 135 but has gone all the way up to 154 ... who is he ducking Pete that you feel would beat him at 135, 140 or 147 ? Be specific.

Ron Lipton
12-01-2007, 06:13 PM
There is no one in the world I would rather watch a great fight with than all the guys from the Zone at one fight party, I kid you not. Best boxing fans in the world right here. Great analysis from all.

I especially like the comments from Rock about seeing Frazier take the great spoiler Eddie Machen and knowing this is the guy to take boxing skills away from someone great. Also Kudos to Merchant right or wrong saying Hatton will manuver him where he wants and then the guy will beat him up.

Hope not, we will see. Hatton has some strong legs on him for a 5'6" Jr Welter and absolutely great determination and integrity.

I hate trash talk, always have and yearn for the days of the great champs who act like it.

Hope they grease up Ricky's face well and do not take ANY shit from the ref or the opposing corner, fighting for his rights in this fight all the way, let em fight on the inside I say, and don't break them early and we have a good fight on our hands.

PeteLeo
12-02-2007, 12:02 AM
Let's see. He's a guy who could easily still fight at 135 but has gone all the way up to 154 ... who is he ducking Pete that you feel would beat him at 135, 140 or 147 ? Be specific.

"Oh, magic crystal ball, I can see . . . I can see a name coming out of the mist . . . 'Ant' . . . 'Atom Ant'? No, not him . . . 'Ant-onio' . . . 'Ant-onio Something' . . . um, come on, spirits, focus . . . 'Ant-onio Mar-gar-ito.' Anyone here heard of him?"

Would Margarito have whupped up on Little Floyd? Probably not. The point is Pretty Boy wasn't about to find out. Offered eight million greenback dollars for the match, Mr. "I'm Better Than Ali and Robinson" Mayweather hemed and hawed and then took off for the more inviting charms of Chop-Chop Corley. Who staggered him.

Lttle Floyd is a talent, to be sure, but part of that talent is the uncanny ability to seek out and call out Big Names who are Bigly Over the Hill. There has been the occasional slip-up -- no one knew how good Castillo actually was, but Little had his judge buddies to bail him out --, so I really have to wonder if there would even be a Mayweather-Hatton match if there hadn't first been a Collazo-Hatton match.
Pete "the Swami" Leo.

Rafael
12-02-2007, 12:07 AM
Boxrec lists Joe Cortez as the ref, and Paul Smith, Dave Moretti, and Burt Clements as the judges.

That's bad news for Mayweather. In the Castillo fight Cortez let Hatton repeatedly initiate clinches, and hold-and-hit on the inside with only a few soft verbal warnings.

HE Grant
12-02-2007, 08:22 AM
So you critize the man for not taking a fight you will not go on record saying he would lose even though he went on to fight bigger and still better men. Is it o.k. with you that he is fighting Hatton? How do you see the fight playing out? If he wins, no big deal if he loses he's overated?

Enswell
12-02-2007, 01:15 PM
So you critize the man for not taking a fight you will not go on record saying he would lose even though he went on to fight bigger and still better men. Is it o.k. with you that he is fighting Hatton? How do you see the fight playing out? If he wins, no big deal if he loses he's overated?

I don't know the odds, but I'm guessing Mayweather is the favorite in this fight. If he were to lose wouldn't that suggest he's overrated?

PeteLeo
12-02-2007, 04:53 PM
So you critize the man for not taking a fight you will not go on record saying he would lose even though he went on to fight bigger and still better men. Is it o.k. with you that he is fighting Hatton? How do you see the fight playing out? If he wins, no big deal if he loses he's overated?

Whoa-whoa-whoa there, big fella.
The statement was that Lttle Floyd ducked no one. He clearly ducked Margarito with an eight million dollar stew on the boil. That's a pretty big ducking.

Would Margarito have beaten PB? I don't think so, but I do think he would have been punching -- hard -- for twelve full rounds (no way Floyd stops him), unlike DLH and selected other Over-the-Hillies. Floyd has gone on to fight better men than Antonio? Really? Chop-Chop of the flowing ensembles? An almost retired Oscar? If not them, then who?

I think Ricky H. is competitive early and then loses on points, but if he were to pull out a deserved decision, I'd probably consider it a combination of overrating Floyd and underrating Hatton (I'm not exactly on the Ricky bandwagon, yet). Unless somehow Ricky just blows him out (another result I find unimaginable -- but I thought Holyfield whipping Tyson the first time around to be mere fantasy, even though I bet ten bucks on it). In the case of that wild result, then Mayweather definitely has been promoted beyond his optimum value. Hatton's a pretty smallish "welter," himself.

So, who did Little Floyd duck on the way up? We already covered that ground, didn't we? PeteLeo.

HE Grant
12-02-2007, 05:17 PM
He obviously did not fear Margarito and definately felt he would beat him as easily as he has beaten everyone else. You yourself, while enjoying the opportunity to critize Mayweather, do not feel Margarito would have beaten him either. There has been absolutely zero public outcry over Mayweather not making the match since no one else picks Margarito to beat Mayweather. A more accurate assesment would be that he simply does not have to fight everyone instead of spinning a senario making it look like he ducked someone. We would all love to see every fight made we want but it just does not happen that way.

Rafael
12-02-2007, 06:36 PM
He obviously did not fear Margarito and definately felt he would beat him as easily as he has beaten everyone else. You yourself, while enjoying the opportunity to critize Mayweather, do not feel Margarito would have beaten him either. There has been absolutely zero public outcry over Mayweather not making the match since no one else picks Margarito to beat Mayweather. A more accurate assesment would be that he simply does not have to fight everyone instead of spinning a senario making it look like he ducked someone. We would all love to see every fight made we want but it just does not happen that way.

Evan, I think you are kind of missing the point here. If you could justify your guy not taking a fight on the "he would beat him anyway" basis, then he might as well not fight anyone he's favored to defeat. The fact is that Mayweather turned down a 7.5-8 mill. offer to fight Margarito and chose to fight Mitchell for about half of that. Mayweather has consistently avoided several tough challengers and has tiptoed though a few of the weight divisions he has campaigned in. For instance, he took Victor Sosa instead of Casamayor (he also turned down Casamayor a second time when the rematch with Castillo first fell through due to a Castillo injury). He also chose Henry Bruseles instead of both Harris (before Harris was beaten by Maussa) and Witter, even though HBO offered him more money to fight any of these two guys. Woud he have been favored to beat all of these guys? Absolutely, but in each case he prefered to take a paycut to instead go through the path of least ressistance. Please observe that I am giving you facts here. This is not my opinion.

HE Grant
12-02-2007, 09:07 PM
The same point can be made on almost any major fighter that ever lived. There are people who claim Ray Robinson ducked many tough fighters along the way. My point is that unless they clearly avoided a fighter that many feel could have beaten them, who cares. That's the game. It's the fighter's choice as they take the punches and risks. No one is going to fight everybody. Of course there are fights that don't get made we'd like to see.

To say he ducked someone implies to me that he avoided someone that you feel would have beaten him. Are you saying that and if so , who?

Rafael
12-02-2007, 10:16 PM
You are still missing the point. How many fighters out there consistently take paycuts to avoid the tough opponents? Those guys were not favored to beat Mayweather (who has been?), and I don't know if they would have beaten him or not. That's not the point. The point is that Mayweather clearly avoided them, despite the fact that he could have made much more money by taking them.

So, in your opinion, ducking only exists if a fighter avoids someone that could beat him? Do you realize that, according to that definition, no one ever ducks anyone. How many of those guys would Mayweather -or his fans- ever admit could have beaten him? The other thing that pisses me off is when fighters -and their fans- rationalize ducking by demeaning or dismissing an opponent ("he's a nobody" or "who has he beaten?"), only to turn around and fight even lesser opponents for less money. Now, if a guy comes in the open and admits he's not taking a fight because the other guy is too dangerous given the money that is being offered, you have to respect that. This is exactly what Mosley said about not taking a Margarito fight. But Mayweather and his minions would never do that. It is far more convenient to dismiss Margarito as a bum who has beaten nobody rather than admit he's perceived as too much risk for the money.

Thomas44
12-03-2007, 12:54 AM
Anybody know what single punch that both fighters are most vulnerable to in this upcoming fight ?

I'd say Hatton is most likely to get caught with an uppercut as he bulls in with his head down.

Mayweather ....? .... all I can come up with is when he is against the ropes and Ricky times him with a liver shot.

My pick is Mayweather 116 - 112

PeteLeo
12-03-2007, 02:46 AM
If fighter A has a solid standing in the world rankings and is on the media warpath clamoring for a match with fighter B, and a legitimate financial offer of an obscene amount of money is made (well, eight mil is obscene in my neighborhood -- though it's a nice obscenity) to secure the bout, then should fighter B decline the opportunity to instead face a much older and more used-up opponent with no significant standing in the ratings for substantially less cash, what other conclusion can one draw?

Fighter B is "avoiding" (a gentle term meaning "ducking") Fighter A.

By the way, Fighter A would be Margarito. Guess who Fighter B is?
PeteLeo.

Off The River
12-03-2007, 03:31 AM
Maybe fighter B is avoiding exploiting the existing market. Perhaps fighter B has a conscience.

Telepath
12-03-2007, 05:37 AM
^ Ok, now you're just kidding ;)

Off The River
12-03-2007, 08:03 AM
You read my mind.

walshb
12-04-2007, 12:59 PM
I have watched two episodes of 24/7 and in the second, PBF looks like he
is getting the excuses ready in case he loses.

He was talking about his
tough tough career and the aches and pains and sore hands and arms etc etc, like
nobody ever got sore or HURT, but him. This IMO is not a good sign and shows a slight
doubting and a slight lack of confidence.

PBF is at or close to his peak, every bit as much as Hatton. Neither IMO can be seen as being over the hill or one being more past
it than the other.

Ricky has had the tougher career in terms of brutality, as his style
is all about aggression and taking a few to give a few...

I saw Hatton training on SKY news today with Oscar keeping a close eye
on things. Hatton looked absolutely ripped and ready for action.

Is Oscar lining up a shot at Hatton, should Hatton win?

If so and the fight is at 147lbs, then I think Oscar loses, and loses badly.

154lbs is not really an option for Hatton as he is a little too small.

Julian Jackson
12-04-2007, 03:02 PM
Although I respect Mayweather's skills and conditioning, I have been leaning towards Hatton in this one since it was first announced. I know you can't put too much stock in the HBO 24/7 program (which has a pretty clear bias to make people cheer for Hatton), but it has only strengthened my prediction for a Hatton victory. And, I totally agree that Floyd seems to be making excuses beforehand just in case. I think Hatton said it best when he stated "If Floyd wins this one, he will have earned it. ..... But he wont!"

As always Floyd will come in shape, but when this boxing match turns into a dogfight (and it definitely will), I think that the mentally tougher Hatton will prevail.

hagler04
12-04-2007, 04:14 PM
I would love for Hatton to win, and I think he'll make it competetive, but forced to pick I say Floyd by decision . .around 7-4-1. Hatton's going to be eating the uppercut all night.

diggity
12-04-2007, 04:49 PM
Forget the winner, I just hope its watchable. If it wasn't for the fact that they are both battling to stay undefeated, I could almost as easily not even buy it & wait for the download.

Dan Gunter
12-04-2007, 07:24 PM
I'm usually wrong, but I'm going with Hatton in a relatively narrow unanimous decision, principally because of his fast feet, good-enough (though not great) chin, and good-enough (again, not great) power. PBF can be rushed, and Hatton will rush him all 12 rounds.

HE Grant
12-04-2007, 08:29 PM
Floyd by clear decision or late, cut inspired stopage. Take nothing away from Hatton as he is a hell of a warrior ... he's just up against one of those highly frustrating but effective guys ...

mrbig1
12-04-2007, 08:39 PM
I agree with Todd. Easy win for PBF.

prototypeofamodernmadman
12-05-2007, 01:55 AM
Although I would like to see Hatton pound the shit out of Mayweather,I completely agree with diggity here, as long as it's a competitive watchable fight, I'll be happy, A lot of opponents are capable of beating Mayweather on paper but as we've seen from the past, Mayweather's a slippery little fucker that makes his opponents appear as though they are underwater as they desperately
swing at the air.

diggity
12-06-2007, 11:16 AM
Sounds a bit "Golden Boy Promotions" but BHop is picking Hatton to win...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/7130159.stm


Good Hatton quotes...

Before Hatton took the podium the assembled media patiently endured a lecture by the long-winded Roger Mayweather, trainer and uncle of Floyd Mayweather, Jr. As Hatton made the customary gestures of acknowledgement to the event’s organizers and participants, he caused a roar of laughter when he joked, “I would like to thank Roger (Mayweather) for making the winter shorter.”

Before departing from the podium to afford Mayweather his opportunity to address the media, Hatton gave the crowd one last laugh when he concluded, “I will let Oscar (de la Hoya) come back to the mike and introduce Bruce Almighty.”

GorDoom
12-06-2007, 02:04 PM
Once again CBZ stalwart, Zev, has stepped up to the plate & volunteered to cover the last big fight of the year for us. A Tip O' The Fedora to you Zev, it is most appreciated by all of us!

Please keep all discussions of this fight to this thread. Redundant threads will be deleted.

thanks,

GorDoom

doomeddisciple
12-06-2007, 11:15 PM
Forget the winner, I just hope its watchable. If it wasn't for the fact that they are both battling to stay undefeated, I could almost as easily not even buy it & wait for the download.


Thats what I want to see - a good fight.

PeterD
12-07-2007, 04:37 AM
Mayweather by UD.

I think he is too classy.

darkknight718
12-07-2007, 03:08 PM
The betting money has to be on Mayweather, like him or hate him. He's too fast and too slick. Mayweather is susceptible to pressure fighters, and I'm sure that Hatton will be at his best for this one, but it's hard to see even a prime Hatton winning enough rounds off Floyd to get a decision.

KOJOE90
12-08-2007, 06:59 AM
Coming from the UK I am trying to remember the last time I was so excited about a big fight involving a British fighter. I think it was probably the first Benn v Eubank fight, although I was pretty hyped about Benn v G-Man and Lewis v Tyson and Hamed v Robinson.

But I've been hyper about this fight for weeks and it's given me a buzz I have not felt since the days Nigel Benn was prowling the scene.

As for the fight itself? Mauweather is a remarkable fighter with some sublime skills mixed with outstanding speed. I also think, hands permitting he hits harder that some give him credit for. You don't achieve what he has a achieved without having some 'pop' in your punches, no matter how skilled you are.

But Hatton really has that 'look' about him at the moment a look of a man who know this is HIS moment. Mayweather is about to be attacked by a very, very dangerous fighter with only one thing on his mind and that is to crush Mayweathers mind, body and soul.

I hope the move back to Welterweight will not slow Hattons legs down, as he has very good footspeed and balance which allows him to throw shots from many angles, a tactic he will need in this fight. Hatton when he is on form is like Mayweather is a very accurate puncher. Hatton may not have the original Hitmans one shot KO power but he is excellent at slowly breaking down fighters mentaly and physically. Mayweather has never faced a fighter who with pressure him quite like Hatton will.

This has the makings of a great fight, Hatton will bring far more fire into the ring than De La Hoya did, that's for sure.


So it's Mayweathers speed, defence and ego against Hattons pressure, strength and desire.

I still edge for Mayweather to outspeed and counterpunch his way to a close points win but make no mistake Hatton is in with a REAL chance of overwhelming the Pretty Boy.

COME ON RICKY!!!!!!!!

wpink
12-08-2007, 07:06 AM
Since 1979 I have looked at one of boxings greatest fights from one direction. That being Leonard Duran, from the eyes of Ray leonard fan. Now I have tried my best to look at the fight from a unbiased view, and judge it, and I think I have. The mistake I have been making is I as a person have been raised to remove the emotion from everything and look at the facts, and while others get overhyped, and lose their focus, or become sloppy, make mistakes, I will prosper because I and focused throughout the storm on the prize and executing.

I use this approach in my careers when I reviewed legal matters for Sprint Publishing, and could not get through to customer who were upset about contractiual obligations that we were in court for (No I am not an attorney, however I was the court witness for Sprint Publishing) and I would always advise customer to remove what they think, how they feel, and focus on the terms of the contract, and that factual matters that impact the contract. Just like pharmaceutical Sales, now keep the patient first, not my bous check, or other things. It has helped me be very successful in my career. In personal life because I boxed and had confidence there were times I would get in street fights in East st Louis growing up, where guys would hollar and Stack em (gang sign for the Black Gangster Disciples, which rendered fear a lot of times to those that were about to fight, espcially if they were not part of a gang, as I was not) and creat the show that they were tough, and others would think would TB (My knick name) was about get his ass whipped. However I would simply position myself for whatever get down we were about to do, and generally won...abliet i did get my ass whipped in the 8the grade by Gerald black eye ellison, the first time we foughgt,,but other than that never lost..and I fought many many times...we had too.

The reason I bring all that up, is that is what has shaped my views previously About Duran. Yeh sure he was great, but the tenacity, the eyes, the passion etc...I personally expected a Sugar Ray Leonard to stay focues and shrug it off and win. However as I see the build up to Hatton and Mayweather, I see the fact that the rage and tenacity building up in Hatton actually is creating the auro of this fight.

No one is thinking that Hatton has the style or mechanics to beat Mayweather, but what is happening is that the assholeism of Mayweather, the arogance of Mayweather may have done the opposite of what he is trying ot accomplish. He generally hopes that it forces a fighter to become enraged and make mistakes, and with his speed stamina etc...he would then capitalize on every mistake and thus he wins these boring fights based on all the little things. What I see in Hatton leading up to the fight, is now what many including Hawk, etc...have been trying to get through to me about Duran all along.....Duran that night in Montreal fought with such a rage, that he was not going to lose even if he fought a heavyweight. Leonard while not a Mayweather in how he careers himself, his image, his easily acquired fortunes and fame, his good looks and smile, articulation, being from America etc....all these things got under Duran skin, and enraged him to the point that Duran had a rage but a caged rage ready to explode in the ring, that Leonard going toe to toe simply would not have been able to deal with, and I dont know of any fighter when I go back and look at the tapes of that fight, could have. It sends chills down my spin, looking at that fight.

I see in Hatton not the stare or the auro or the skills of a duran, but I do see the rage and and form what I see thus far, the caged rage that could lead to and upset if he is able to carry it over into the ring.

I have never been a Hatton fan, but I imagine 24/7, the numerou articles I have read all the publicity on how Mayweather is carrying himself has led me to really focus on this fight, and I think that mayweather may win, but he is making it much more difficult for himself by opening his mouth, just as ali did vs Frazier the 1st time, and now Ray mouth did do it, but just what he represented brought out the best in Duran in their first fight, vs the best in Leonard but a wrong style ( I still feel it was the wrong style, but I honestly have never seen Ray fight in an engaged fight better). I personally love people that are confident and can throw in some fun bravado when they are interviewed or leading up to the fight...Deon Sanders, Ali, ...but this Mayweather stuff is simply disrespecting boxing, hard working fans, and if this is the blueprint of how fighters who earn money in the future are going to carry themselves, it will be the downfall of boxing. As people do not want to see that, unlike what Mayweather thinks. People are not there for Mayweather as we have seen his rants, bragging flashing money before, and his disfuntional family before, what I am looking for is does Hatton have what it takes to shut this fighter up, and really focusing on the training, the confidence, the little things and hoping just hoping he can beat the hell of mayweather tonight.

I dont think so, as no matter what he is not a duran, and no Mayweather at welter is not a leonard but his speed and technique coupled with stamina leads me to believe he has the style to beat what Hatton will bring especially since hatton has a 7 inch reach disadvantage and is wild... However, so did Frazier, and look what ali's mouth brought out in Frazier. I am hoping the same for the fight tonight.

KOJOE90
12-08-2007, 07:22 AM
I have just watched the weigh-in via the BBC website.

I have watched all of Hattons screened fights and I have never, ever seen him as hyped and intense for a fight.

If he can channel those emotions like Duran did in the first Leonard fight then Mayweather is in for the toughest fight of his career, by far.


COME ON RICKY!!!

mrbig1
12-08-2007, 11:13 AM
The fact is PBF is #1 p4p in his era. Too much skill and talent. I see a easy win for Mayweather. 9-3.

KOJOE90
12-08-2007, 01:43 PM
The fact is PBF is #1 p4p in his era. Too much skill and talent. I see a easy win for Mayweather. 9-3.

I don't feel it is a fact that PBF is No.1 p4p, just many peoples opinion. P4P No.1's have lost before, countless times in fact and if Hatton does beat Mayweather it will be an upset, but not the greatest upset Boxing has ever seen.

Mexal
12-08-2007, 02:39 PM
I'll be rooting for Ricky all the way and it's nice to see him so pumped for this fight. But I believe PBF will find a way to earn a decision. Ricky will try to make it a fight, but we know Floyd won't stand his ground. I just hope it's a good watchable fight, unlike too many of Floyd's recent fights. Even if Hatton were to lose, I hope he gives a good account of himself. Floyd by unanimous decision, maybe late stoppage.

HE Grant
12-08-2007, 04:10 PM
I'm fairly excited about the bout ... I actually purchased my first PPV in about two years ... while I feel Mayweather decisions Hatton or stops him on cuts, at the very least Hatton is a true warrior, highly skilled, in exceptional condition and in his physical prime ... It's interesting but he does not look so much smaller than Floyd in the face to face weigh in pictures ... I guess Floyd left his lifts off on the scales ...

If Hatton's face holds up ( an big if since I already see marks from sparring) it will be a fight ... I still pick Floyd but Hatton definately belongs in there !

TKO Tom
12-08-2007, 05:57 PM
The eloquent Larry Merchant once said, "There ain't a horse that can't be rode or a rider that can't be throwed," and that's some wisdon I choose to remember at times like this when a guy like Mayweather appears to be unbeatable to everyone.

But boxing history tells us that just when a guy is perceived to be flying higher than all of the rest, is when he often spirals down in flames. Don't believe me? Ask Joe Frazier or George Foreman or Mike Tyson.

Hatton is a helluva fighter and he has a style that will present Mayweather with some problems. Remember that a "34 year-old, one handed, part-time fighter" (Leonard Ellerbe's words to describe Oscar De La Hoya) pushed the great Floyd all the way to a split-decision. Hatton is quicker, faster, stronger and is better on his feet than Oscar was by the time he fought Floyd. Floyd has been fighting a collection of old men and what he calls "C level fighters" for a while now.

Like Joe Calzaghe, Hatton is better than the majority of the American press gives him credit for. So, I like Ricky Hatton to be more active and land the harder punches and to win the fight by a close decision.

GanchoIzquierdo
12-08-2007, 06:19 PM
Tom,

My thoughts exactly. I expect Mayweather to be in a world of hurt--and for his undefeated record to be a thing of the past--in the next few hours.

Gancho

Mexal
12-08-2007, 06:21 PM
By the way, what about Floyd's arrogance claiming that all these brits are coming to the US because they want to be part of the 'Mayweather experience'? Apparently Flod doesn't realize that these brits are here because they love their Manchester Kid (who is pretty down to earth) and want to see him do what he's been doing all his career, and that's finding a way to win. How full of himself can a guy be???

mrbig1
12-08-2007, 07:51 PM
I'm not buying this fight for $55.00. I don't see it living up to the hype. I could be wrong. In fact I hope I'm wrong. In order for Hatton to win he has to put punchs together.I don't see him coming close to doing that. So I see a one sided win for PBF.

diggity
12-08-2007, 10:49 PM
I really don't like paying $55 for this fight but I'm doing it for 2 reasons.

1 - Both guys are undefeated and I believe both will do whatever it takes to stay that way. I'm sure the fight won't be pretty but you can bank that Hatton will leave it all in there. This is a tremendous stage for both fighters.

2- As long as this fight doesn't get stopped on cuts, I believe PBF will have earned every ounce of his paycheck tonight regardless of the outcome.

Go Ricky

doomeddisciple
12-08-2007, 11:14 PM
http://www.channelsurfing.net/

scroll 4/5's down the page...ahem...

Maxie's Gal
12-08-2007, 11:30 PM
Nice to hear it in English on channelsurfing, though sopcast has a clearer picture with no lagging and the Romanian commercials are a hoot !

doomeddisciple
12-08-2007, 11:35 PM
I'm not buying this fight for $55.00. I don't see it living up to the hype. I could be wrong. In fact I hope I'm wrong. In order for Hatton to win he has to put punchs together.I don't see him coming close to doing that. So I see a one sided win for PBF.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.channelsurfing.net/

scroll 4/5's down the page...ahem...

mrbig1
12-09-2007, 12:09 AM
Thank you sir.

Zevl
12-09-2007, 12:30 AM
Good Evening, everyone.

Early results from a boring card:

Former IBF super middleweight champion Jeff Lacy (23-1, 17 KOs) outworked The Contender's Peter Manfredo Jr. (28-5, 13 KOs) over ten rounds to claim a unanimous decision. Lacy dropped Manfredo with a right hand in round four, and went on to win by scores of 95-94, 96-93, 97-92.

WBO junior featherweight champion Daniel Ponce De Leon (34-1, 30 KOs) won a tedious twelve round unanimous decision over Eduardo Escobedo (20-3, 14 KOs). The normally super aggressive Ponce De Leon was frustrated all night by Escobedo's defensive tactics, but he did enough to come away with a 115-113, 117-111, 118-110 verdict.

Lightweight Edner Cherry (23-5-2, 11 KOs) knocked out Wes Ferguson (17-3-1, 5 KOs) in round six. Cherry, who defeated Ferguson in June by decision, dropped Ferguson twice with left hooks in the sixth, the second time for the count. Time was 2:59.

Welterweight Matthew Hatton (33-3-1, 13 KOs) took a one-sided unanimous decision over Frankie Santos (15-6-3, 7 KOs). Scores were 80-72, 80-72, 79-73.

Featherweight Jonathan Oquendo (14-1, 9 KOs) needed just 89 seconds to destroy Andres Ledesma (14-7, 9 KOs). A barrage of power shots dropped Ledesma, who rose at ten, but was unable to continue.

Evenly matched junior middleweights Jose Rodriquez (12-0-1, 2 KOs) and Ishmail Arvin (14-1-1, 6 KOs) battled to a six round draw. Scores were 58-56, 57-57, 57-57.

Junior welterweight Danny Garcia (2-0, 2 KO) stopped Jesus Villareal (1-3-1) in round two. An overhand right led to Villareal's downfall at the 2:28 mark.

Debuting middleweight Daniel Jacobs (1-0) needed just 29 seconds to TKO Jose Hurtado (1-2, 1 KOs) with a monster left hook.

Zevl
12-09-2007, 12:53 AM
Round One

Left jab lands for Hatton as he immediately pressures Floyd. Mayweather lands a left hook, and another. Mayweather lands a straight right. Floyd jabbing alot as Hatton pressures him. Holding and hitting by both. Straight right by Mayweather ends the round. Mayweather's round.

Zevl
12-09-2007, 12:58 AM
Round Two

Hatton starts fast by landing a lunging left hook. Another left hook lands for Hatton. Straight right by Mayweather. Nice straight right by Mayweather ssnaps Hatton's head back. Hatton lands a left hook. Hatton bulls Mayweather to the ropes and flurries, not much lands. Hatton's round.

Zevl
12-09-2007, 01:02 AM
Round Three

Left snaps Mayweather's head back. Holding and hitting by both. Hatton has Mayweather on the ropes and flurries. Lots of holding. Right hand lands for Mayweather, and another. Hatton is bleeding over his right eye from one of the right hands. Hatton's round.

Zevl
12-09-2007, 01:06 AM
Round Four

Hatton backs Mayweather to a corner almost immediately and flurries effectively. Hatton is outworking Floyd at this point. Straight right snaps Hatton's head back again. Mayweather lands a nice combination. Mayweather countering effectively now and has turned the round around. Mayweather's round.

Zevl
12-09-2007, 01:09 AM
Round Five

Hatton outworking Mayweather early once again, backing Mayweather to the ropes. Hatton lands a right hand. Mayweather trying to land counters off the ropes. Mayweather lands a nice right hand, forces Hatton back. Hatton's round.

Zevl
12-09-2007, 01:14 AM
Round Six

Floyd jabbing to begin the round. Floyd lands a left, Hatton follows with a right. Hatton backs Floyd up to the ropes and hits Floyd behind the head. Joe Cortez takes a point away. Floyd lands a counter left. Both land right hands simultaneously. Close round. I'll give it to Hatton but point deduction means an even round.

Zevl
12-09-2007, 01:18 AM
Round Seven

Lots os wrestling this round. Not alot of punches landed. Mayweather countering off the ropes. Floyd landing short punches. Floyd lands a left-right. Floyd avoiding punches. A beautiful counter left lands for Floyd. Mayweather's round.

Thomas44
12-09-2007, 01:20 AM
Good work Zevl.

What did you think about the point deduction , warranted or undeserved ?

doomeddisciple
12-09-2007, 01:21 AM
deserved imo

Zevl
12-09-2007, 01:22 AM
Round Eight

Straight counter right lands for Mayweather. Floyd attacking the body. Right hand stuns Hatton temporarily. Hatton lands a nice right hand after backing Floyd to the ropes. A counter left from Mayweather stuns Hatton towards the end of the round. Big round for Mayweather.

Zevl
12-09-2007, 01:26 AM
Thomas, I think Hatton (as well as Mayweather) is a dirty fighter, so I think it was justified.


Round Nine

Hatton looks fine at the start of the round, still chasing Mayweather around the ring. Hatton lands a left hook against the ropes. Floyd's jab snaps Hatton's head back. Two straight rights land for Mayweather to end the round. Hatton looks tired. Mayweather's round.

Zevl
12-09-2007, 01:29 AM
Round Ten

Hatton immediately tries to lands a lunging left hook. Counter left hook floors Hatton, hard. Mayweather has Hatton against the ropes and floors Hatton again and the fight is stopped immediately by Cortez.


Good win by Mayweather, he gradually wore Hatton down and just got better as the fight went on. Hatton should stay at 140.

ShawnTheBleeder
12-09-2007, 01:30 AM
Whoa!

doomeddisciple
12-09-2007, 01:32 AM
Boom!

Thomas44
12-09-2007, 01:33 AM
What punches did the damage ?

Looking forward to watching this fight.

GanchoIzquierdo
12-09-2007, 01:34 AM
Wow! Didn't see this coming at all! Congratulations to Floyd. He is truly one heck of a little fighter.

Zevl
12-09-2007, 01:34 AM
What punches did the damage ?

Looking forward to watching this fight.



Straight right counters throughout the fight, and left hooks at the end.

Ron Lipton
12-09-2007, 01:47 AM
Very frustrating to watch as Hatton was doing well in my mind, and Cortez kept taking his entire fight from him at different times breaking them at the absolute worst times possible.

The point deduction like that in a major fight was not the right call in my mind, rather than give him a stern warning because Floyd did turn his back.
To take a point that fast almost justified the way PBF put his arm around the ref at the end.

Legitimate stoppage but he did not let Ricky fight his fight. Am I wrong?????

Zevl
12-09-2007, 01:53 AM
Very frustrating to watch as Hatton was doing well in my mind, and Cortez kept taking his entire fight from him at different times breaking them at the absolute worst times possible.

The point deduction like that in a major fight was not the right call in my mind, rather than give him a stern warning because Floyd did turn his back.
To take a point that fast almost justified the way PBF put his arm around the ref at the end.

Legitimate stoppage but he did not let Ricky fight his fight. Am I wrong?????


I think so. Both these guys tend to fight on the "dirty" side, Hatton more so with his constant holding and hitting. Cortez did a good job considering the fighters, not an easy job. Cortez played no part in the outcome, in my opinion. The only thing I'd criticize him for, was his hesitation during the final knockdown as he seemed to step between the fighters, hesitate, and then let it continue until Hatton fell.

bomma
12-09-2007, 01:58 AM
I thought it was pretty fair for the most part. I have to give it to Floyd he basically adapted to Hatton's style. Started to counter and basically took Hatton's fight away from him even winning the inside game as well. Hatton was frustrated by this and it basically took him out of his game.

Side note, the British fans were classless booing the US anthem and Floyd when he won. Cheering the Hatton-Wonderland song during the post fight interview with Floyd.

I give Floyd more credit for this fight then all of his other fights combined. For once a very good exciting Floyd fight.

Rafael
12-09-2007, 02:08 AM
How many top welterweights do you think Hatton would beat?

Ron Lipton
12-09-2007, 02:12 AM
I understand up to a point, yet from round one on he absolutely in my mind did not let Hatton fight his fight inside, I think this wore Ricky down mentally frustrating him. A referee must let them fight inside and if you watch the replay he broke them so damn fast so many times, it really ruined it for me watching it. Kudos to Floyd for a great counter left hook and Hatton drove me crazy as did his corner for not SCREAMING INTO HIS FACE TO KEEP HIS LEFT HAND UP, UP UP!

God I wish some boxing promoter somewhere would give the fans a super great undercard for the money paid at the live gate and what we all shelled out for pay per view. Those days are gone forever with great undercards.

bomma
12-09-2007, 02:14 AM
Ron you are right about that, and HBO is so cheap they won't even put some of there up in comers on the undercard to let all the fans see them. How about Andre Berto anyone?

PD99
12-09-2007, 02:24 AM
Cortez was knee jerk in his breaking of the fighters to begin with but seemed to become more relaxed about in close fighting as the bout wore on.

If anyone cruelled Hatton at times it was Hatton imo. After charging in, he got himself way too close to Mayweather, leaving himself little punching room. He also seemed more intent on holding & wrestling than letting his hands go when Mayweather was there to be hit and with Cortez no where in sight.

Good fight to watch and excellent performance from Mayweather. I had to laugh when Hatton made ref. to Floyd slipping in a few dirty tactics during the iv with Merchant. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

gazot
12-09-2007, 02:38 AM
A terrible performance by Cortez but having said that I don't see any way Hatton could have won. The pressure that Hatton applied was completely ineffective I can't remember him landing one significant body punch. I was happy to see Floyd showing lots of class and being very gracious in victory.

newpoppop
12-09-2007, 02:42 AM
I think so. Both these guys tend to fight on the "dirty" side, Hatton more so with his constant holding and hitting. Cortez did a good job considering the fighters, not an easy job. Cortez played no part in the outcome, in my opinion. The only thing I'd criticize him for, was his hesitation during the final knockdown as he seemed to step between the fighters, hesitate, and then let it continue until Hatton fell.

I don't think the outcome would be different, but I think Cortez didn't allow Hatton to fight "his" fight. Mayweather would land a clean shot, and hold Hatton. I think the stoppage was a good call, and Ricky should go back to fighting at 140.

timayres
12-09-2007, 04:49 AM
Thanks for the round by round. I just got home late at night and looked forward to the slow scroll down each round to read the action.

I appreciate Ron's p.o.v; though I didn't see this bout, I felt that same frustration during Ruiz-Jones Jr, the ref not letting the rough infighter do his thing if his hands are moving. The punching and pushing and pulling is part of the work of the infighter wearing the boxer down it seems to me, take that away with quick breaks and the edge goes to the other guy. Not having seen this bout and not knowing how Hatton was doing, of course, can't say if it would have made a difference, but who knows.

I was surprised when I read the stoppage- not what folks had predicted on either side for sure. Was it an exciting bout to watch? It sounded like it could be, but also frustrating, I couldn't quite tell.

Thanks for the comments.

Tim

wpink
12-09-2007, 04:56 AM
Mayweather proved his greatness tonight. No doubt about it. This was a great the best performance by Mayweather, and keep in mind he is not performing this way at his natural wieght, he is doing this at welterweight, 17 pounds north of his natural weight,,,,

He gave the fans what they wanted,a fight, he beat the shit out of Hatton and stopped him. He took all the dirty stuff that Hatton did, and remanied poised and ko'd him

diggity
12-09-2007, 05:13 AM
I don't know what everyone else saw tonight but I saw every bit the unwatchable fight I was hoping it wouldn't be. Much to my surprise as well, I thought Cortez hurt the fight. He was a lot less lenient than he was for Hatton/Castillo IMO. The result would have still been a Hatton loss but I think Cortez was abundantly over anxious on this assignment.

More importantly, Hatton ate the lead right like it was his job. Instead of making an attempt at defending against it, he got less patient & more careless. After seeing how rattled Hatton got with Collazo I knew it wasn't too far fetched to think that all it was going to take was for PBF to sit down on one shot & he could close the show soon after.

After a while this fight took the look of Hopkins/DLH. Even though DLH & Hatton each had their bright spots against their opponents, you never got the impression it was ever going to amount to anything. As the fight wore on it looked like a little brother taking on his big brother.

I was very impressed that PBF KOd Hatton. I really did not see that coming but in retrospect I should have. Hatton has nothing to be ashamed of. I still can't believe this is the same guy I started watching 6 years ago. If you had told me this is where he would be way back then I would have laughed in your face.

HE Grant
12-09-2007, 08:03 AM
What an exciting fight.

What a dramatic ending.

A few initial thoughts:

Ricky Hatton is an extremely courageous, very good fighter but definately not a real welterweight. He belongs at 140.

Floyd Mayweather is equally courageous but a great fighter who also would be best suited at 140.

Mayweather again proved he was a great fighter last night in a classic battle. He began to take over the fight in seven through nine and stopped Hatton with the closest thing to the left hook Robinson stopped Fullmer wit I have ever seen. IT was unreal.

Floyd was extremely gracious in victory. Hatton brave and pragmatic. Ricky will go back to 140 where he belongs and kick some ass for a while. Floyd may never be this great again as he took some serious shots and at 30 plus will eventually start to show age. I really do not know how he would do against a Cotto, a much bigger, stronger natural welter but would love to see the fight.

Last night a great fighter beat and exceptionally good and tough one of the same size in an amazing bout.

HE Grant
12-09-2007, 08:19 AM
On Cortez: Without question a ref's fight to a degree here ...he constantly warned Hatton for hitting behind the head as Floyd pulled a bit of a Jimmy Young at times twisting and turning to avoid punches ... this definately frustrated Hatton .... what bugged me was the way Floyd constantly used his left forearm to block, pivit and thrust at Hatton, often hitting him flush with it ...is this legal ? Cortez never said a word about it ....

Ultimately it did not matter. Floyd proved to be better conditioned (if possible) , at least as physically strong, just as couragoeus, to possess a great chin of his own and was simply a class above. Floyd turned it on after the sixth and pulled past ... the KO was amazing and I'll give Cortez credit for stopping it at the right time. He saved Hatton undue punishment.

Many of the British fan's were classless but that is nothing new...go to one of their football games. However, to boo our national anthem in the US is especially poor taste and only reflects on them.

PD99
12-09-2007, 08:28 AM
I'll watch the fight again but I don't think Cortez did such a bad job.

With no particular passion for either fighter I actually decided to root for Hatton. Cortez's initial sensitivity to Hatton getting in close annoyed me (though Hatton's express tactics of holding/hitting do precede him after all) but I think Cortez eased up reasonably as the fight progressed.

Certainly, I wouldn't put Cortez in the class of Nady (for Ruiz-Jones). Funny, most Jones' fans somehow saw absolutely nothing wrong with Nady's handling of that fight. I wonder if any of those same Jones' fans were rooting for Hatton against Mayweather and somehow found fault with Cortez' performance - which, I repeat, was no where near as bad as Nady's, imo.

At any rate, I thought Hatton had plenty of time afforded to him to do his stuff in close but he stifled himself by not stepping back for punching room & wrestled and held too much. Mayweather handled himself very well on the inside as well as the outside, imo.

Hatton has had a pretty fair run as far as lenience goes. He got away with blue murder against Tszyu for one and, imo, he wasn't exactly muzzled against Mayweather.

If you were rooting for Hatton at all costs I can understand how the perception of Hatton not being allowed to fight "his" fight might upset you since Ricky's express tactics of mauling and holding, interspersed with some hitting = his best chance of winning - notwithstanding the illegality of same.

I say Hatton got a reasonable shot at doing what he does best but still came up short.

PD99
12-09-2007, 08:58 AM
Oh yeah, Mayweather's left hook was an absolute peach and it capped off, what I thought was, a very prudent election by Mayweather to land power shots at every opportunity and begin the break down process from opening bell. Had Floyd not been so focused to do same, Hatton may well have soaked up anything less and stayed very much in the fight over the full 12 rds.

starlingstomp
12-09-2007, 09:25 AM
Most of the fight went how i expected it to, with Hatton being in the fight and but not effective or talented enough offensively to really get enough clean shots in or take the initiative away from Floyd who was able to relax and study the openings in Hatton's D without much fear.

Didn't expect Mayweather to be able to hurt Hatton or pull away so suddenly as Floyd at these weights is more a guy that will occasionally surprise with accuracy rather than being a real solid puncher.In retrospect when looking at the Collazo bout, the stoppage probably says a bit more about Hatton's jaw than it does Floyd having damaging Welter power.

Also i agree with Diggity that it was a poor fight.saved somewhat by a nice stoppage.

triplejab34
12-09-2007, 10:21 AM
I knew Hatton would get dominated.He had a couple of moments when he was outworking Mayweather but that was about it.
I never seen a mismatch having been hyped so much.Hatton almost lost to Collazo.He has no power and is not fast.
I've sais it for a year now:The fight that would be great would be Cotto-Mayweather.

The Hatton bout didn't confirm anything that I didn't already know:Hatton was never in Mayweather's league and didn't have the power to threaten Mayweather.

10-8
12-09-2007, 10:53 AM
No real surprises in this fight until the stoppage. I figured Mayweathher would win a comfy decision which after 9 rounds I figured was a done deal.

The left hook was perfectly timed and caught Hatton as he was tiring. Mayweather caught him as he was escaping from the corner which makes it all the more impressive. Earlier in the fight that same punch may not have dropped him. Immediately going head first into the turnbuckle may have also stunned him some more. Kudos to Mayweather anyway for scoring a convincing KO. I didn't think he had it in him.

I thought Cortez stopped the fight at the right time. He had a good view of Ricky's eyes and in light of Hatton going down again after the stoppage it was the right move. No matter what, Hatton wasn't winning this fight.

Bring on Cotto!

mrbig1
12-09-2007, 10:53 AM
Well ,I said this would be Mayweather vs gatti 2. Hatton shouldn't move back to 140. Not if he walks around at 175 between fights. Weight had nothing to do with Hatton getting his ass handed to him. Mayweather is the #1 p4p in the world. Mayweather is not crazy. no way he fights Cotto. At this stage of his career he want's to fight people he knows he can beat. He knows Cotto is not one of them.

starlingstomp
12-09-2007, 11:09 AM
It was hardly Gatti Mayweather 2.It would take a tremendous feat of incompetence to equal that.Gatti set the bar real low after all.

A bit less competitive than the Judah fight was through ten i would say.Comfortable stuff for Floyd.

wpink
12-09-2007, 11:11 AM
Wow....I think Cortez did a great job. Yes during the 1st couple of rounds he got involved too much, but he took control of a fight that could easily have spilled over into chaos like judah-mayweather did. Intensity was high, Hatton was fouling big time, and Mayweather aint no punk he will give it right back...Thus Cortez kept this as a great fight, not some boxing event that was marred by stupidness. Kudos Cortez

As for Mayweather, he is damm right for using his forearm to puch back hatton head inside. What, is he supposed to simply lay there and let Hatton just maul him, I have sooooooo much more respect for Mayweather after this fight. Not only did he give the fans ...THE FANS a great fight, he fought Hatton at his fight, was more precise, took some great shots, came right back landed great shots and did not get wore down, only got stronger and better as the fight wore on. Then as usual after round 6 He completely had his man figured out, and started whipping Hattons ass....Then what a great finish, that left hook will go down in history...He also ala ali, was leaning back to avoid Hatton punch at the same time he threw his hook.....

What are people going to say now about Mayweather.... I mean dammm, give the man his credit, he has beaten Judah, Baldimir, Dlh, gotti, Castillo,Correles, now Hatton, hopefully he fights Cotto......

Cotto will get destroyed fighting Mayweather...Destroyed. Hatton lasted as long as he did by simply staying on the inside and attemtping to wear Mayweather out, but Cotto is stronger and a better boxer true...but ...BUT BUT,,,,the key thing that will lead to Cotto destruction is that he will attempt to box his way insdie, and follow a very good jab.. Hmmm while is sounds smart, and is technically great and correct, it will leave to slaughter as mayweather will have more time to catch Cotto coming in, and more ability to counter him that he did vs Hatton, and we know that Cotto has been down and hurt more so than Hatton had been prior to Mayweather.

This is not a Maywether that Cotto can beat. The only fighter I think that will have a chance and this is simply because of size and reach and punch voume variables is Williams.

Great job Mayweather.

evander
12-09-2007, 12:41 PM
Two things . One , Cortez was way to involved with this fight.He kept breaking them up way to soon at times and wouldn't let them fight inside ...and didn't bother to allow them to work their way out most of the time. He's another ref who loves to hear himself talk and be the center of attention.Two, Mayweather is one helluva a natural athlete , and that's coming from a non MAyweather fan. ! Respect!

jim glen
12-09-2007, 01:33 PM
good and impartial report on the fight; http://www.britishboxing.net/news_2970-Mayweather-knocks-out-Hatton.html I think you'll agree with this guy Ron.

I haven't seen the fight yet, just been reading about it all day - Nothing we didn't all expect (save the KO), but according to some writers Hatton didn't apply his famed body onslaught, lost his cool or did Floyd just neutralize him?

Julian Jackson
12-09-2007, 01:57 PM
Well, I have to admit that Floyd stepped up to the plate and took care of business. He may not be an all time great, but in this day and age he is probably the best in the sport. I think Cotto and Paul Williams would be tough fights for him, but based on last night's performance I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to bet against him.

HE Grant
12-09-2007, 02:19 PM
This was no Gatti 2 ... Hatton fought a hell of a fight, he simply got flattened by a great fighter. Mayweather outfought him at his own fight. He was amazing ....

I am no Cotto specilist but know he had trouble with Shane at 36 and in a few other fights was hurt pretty bad. His chin is not iron ... he kind of reminds me of Rosario ... He may be next for Floyd ...

bomma
12-09-2007, 02:47 PM
I completely agree with wpink.

Ron Lipton
12-09-2007, 03:08 PM
good and impartial report on the fight; http://www.britishboxing.net/news_2970-Mayweather-knocks-out-Hatton.html I think you'll agree with this guy Ron.

I haven't seen the fight yet, just been reading about it all day - Nothing we didn't all expect (save the KO), but according to some writers Hatton didn't apply his famed body onslaught, lost his cool or did Floyd just neutralize him?

Thanks for pointing that article out Jim.

The man who wrote it was telling the truth, and even though he is a Brit, he roundly criticized his countryman for booing the anthym. I still stand strong on the films of the actual fight which show Cortez would absolutely not give Hatton a chance to fight inside. He did this in the beginning and even though some posters here said he settled down later, my frustration with wanting to see a good Lamotta v Robinson type fight was that he was breaking them apart too damn fast throughout the whole fight.

It is true Hatton got too close to give himself just a tad more punching room and kept his left hand too low the whole fight, eating right hands for the mistake, but earlier on an immediate point deduction was not fair for such a big fight. He could have been "Fair but Firm," by giving him a stern warning and shared those "Firm" warnings for Floyd too at times.

PBF won fair and square and it was a beeeautiful left hook and a decent stoppage. Only a fighter knows fully how frustrating it is when the ref is constantly taking your game plan away.

Watch the film again and you will see he breaks them much too soon all night long. You have to give a guy a chance to fight his style like he promised in the dressing room. Hatton should have done better on the inside but how could he when they broke so quickly?

rocky111
12-09-2007, 03:55 PM
Disapointing effort by Hatton. Where were his lefts to the body? Where was some head movement? YOu cant come in on champions wide open like that. The check hook that koed him is basic boxing 101 and you provide the power yourself by charging in like that. Its a hope you run into it. Ricky should have watched films of dempsey and armstrong.
Give big credit to Mayweather who knows how to box. YOu get a man in close and tie up just one of his arms and you take away the leverage to bang and Floyd did that. Smart well schooled cookie.
Hattons corner didnt have a clue about what to do and Ricky didnt adjust while Floyd as a good champion should be was patient and kept with the plan.
Ricky was very poor in his offense. Very poor. I saw no effective punching while in the past he has been very effective to the body and with double hooks. He also head hunted too much. A man with limited power coming in like that is supposed to hit arms, hips, shoulders etc (remember Joe Frazier hitting Ali like that?)
Mayweather seemed a bit bigger than Hatton and when a guy doesnt punch that well it can be a big drawback if your punch and landing rate isnt high. But lets face it, it wasnt like he was facing a Virgil Akins, or Emile Griffith or Carmen Basilio for strength and size and power. It was a winnable fight for Ricky because he DID have the legs to get in there and execute. ITS JUST THAT HE DIDNT.
Poor defense lost him that fight and Floyd is a fine boxer who knows what to do with the openings handed him. Give him a A.
Good sportsmanship by Floyd after the fight and hes a lucky guy in a big money era. Ricky Hatton should stay at 140 and go to the films and work on defense.
Will Floyd fight Cotto? I dont know if Cotto is fast enough to get to Floyd. If he had Hattons legs he could win such a bout as he knows how to hit anything and be patient for the break down.
JOE CORTEZ WAS TERRIBLE. Just terrible. To take a point away like that when Floyd turned his back while in the ring fighting was wrong and his constant breaking up early of the fighters took Hattons chances down a peg. Bad choice of refs and he was very very biased or appeared that way. Where is Ronnie LIpton when we need him.

diggity
12-09-2007, 03:56 PM
I meant to mention, Hatton & Ruiz are 2 completely different fighters. Sure they both clinch but Ruiz does NOTHING in them. Hatton at least jockeys for position & goes back to work. Ruiz uses it to throw a punch & get out of harms way for the return then rest while complaining to the ref.

Mexal
12-09-2007, 04:28 PM
You can catch the KO on youtube, but no doubt they'll be removing it soon. I didn't watch the fight, but that first left hook by Floyd was was really good but it didn't seem to carry full power (check left hook, as Steward mentioned). It was more that Hatton jumped to throw a lead left thook of his own and left himself open for Floyd's counter left hook. When the left hook landed, Hatton was out of balance and that made the knockdown more dramatic. The stoppage came seconds later after Floyd landed a 2 or 3 more punches with Hatton against the ropes, but Cortez did seem hesitant and uncertain about stopping it. Hatton went down a second time after tripping with his own feet. Bad stoppage in my opinion, but Floyd would've probably stopped him anyway. I'll have to watch the whole fight next Saturday. Kudos to PBF, very good win for him.

HE Grant
12-09-2007, 04:45 PM
That was no bad stopage, Hatton was badly hurt.

daddymofo
12-09-2007, 05:09 PM
Mayweather's game comes down to adjustments mid bout. Like a football team that goes into halftime and adjusts based on the first half, Mayweather makes tactical adjustments mid bout. It's not so much he "comes on strong", its that he's one of the smartest guys in boxing; he feels out his opponant and adapts his style to counter whatever the other guy in the ring is bringing. How many times (besides Gatti, who didnt belong in the same building as PBF, let alone same ring) have we seen him pull away after the 5, 6, and 7th rounds, each round more successful than the last? While everyone is playing checkers, he is playing chess, seeing several moves ahead.

I don't see anyone beating him right now, he's the best in the business right now, hands down. And nobody makes adjustments mid-fight like he does, nobody. As for the Cortez, I tend to agree with Ron, but at the end of the day winners win and the vanquished can either accept a loss w/ humility or piss and moan.

Haven't been by in a while, nice to see everyone on the board!

Rafael
12-09-2007, 06:01 PM
I thought Cortez did a fine job. I agree with the principle of a referee letting an inside fighter do his job on the inside as long as it's within the rules. If Hatton had used a style resembling that of a solid/traditional inside fighter, Cortez would have had no reason to step-in and separate them when he did. Mayweather was being rough and grabbing/forearming on the inside in anticipation (and in return) to Hatton's mauling/grabbing-and-hitting/head first charges. If Hatton had bobbed-and-weaved or jabbed his way in, and done some clean, shoulder-to-shoulder inside fighting (just like Castillo did against Mayweather), this could have been a good back-and-forth type fight with no need for Cortez to act the way he did. Maybe the ultimate result would have been the same, but a flashy technician vs. pressure fighter match does have the potential of being a good one, if both men execute properly and within the rules.

Mayweather is an excellent fighter, but face it, Hatton is not a top 5 (perhaps even a top 10) fighter at 147. There are plenty of good fighters at this weight for Mayweather to fight (Williams, Cotto, Mosley, Cintron, Margarito, even Berto). I would feel truly impressed if Floyd took on at least a couple of these guys and dominated them the way he did with Hatton.

timayres
12-09-2007, 06:31 PM
I meant to mention, Hatton & Ruiz are 2 completely different fighters. Sure they both clinch but Ruiz does NOTHING in them. Hatton at least jockeys for position & goes back to work. Ruiz uses it to throw a punch & get out of harms way for the return then rest while complaining to the ref.

Well, whatever the general abilities/styles of those two are, you look at the early quick breaks by Nady in JJr and Ruiz and see the "WTF?" look on Ruiz's face as he had hand free and was punching and that is all I am talking about. As a fan who looks for those clash of styles/wills in that bout and the one last night, as Ron points out it is a signal that the table it already tipped in one direction and the contest is not a fair one. Not saying in either bout the result would have been different, just that one guy's style may have been muzzled and he may have had a better chance without the interference. That's all.

HE Grant
12-09-2007, 08:06 PM
D-MoFo - Great observation ... he has a brilliant boxing mind to go with his skills ... I always said the reason Joe Louis was able to make adjustments in rematches that he was not during the first bout with opponents that went the distance and/or troubled him often was because one of his weaknesses was lacking that same ability ... Louis had to be reprogrammed by trainers between bouts ... Mayweather makes the adjustments in bouts ... a much quicker study ... an excellent point !

Ron Lipton
12-09-2007, 08:51 PM
Good points Rafael and I would agree with you,
I think Joe took away his chances to do that much too quick.

In the bout I did with Sosa v Williams I, they would do that too at first, but letting them work it out for at least a couple of seconds proved to be some good infighting. All I remember was paying the dough to see this fight, having an absolutely boring undercard and then being so souped up to see a great main event, everyone in the room with me was screaming for Cortez to PUUULEASE let them fight on, all through the match.

I do respect your opinion greatly as one of the best affcionados around.

have a very Merry Christmas Professor.

Rafael
12-09-2007, 09:07 PM
Ron, in my opinion, Mayweather made it rough and prolongued the clinches or forearmed Ricky on purpose. He wanted to make sure that Cortez stepped in and physically separated them, because Hatton is a master at holding and then hitting just as he releases his own hold. In past fights, Hatton would bull his way in, and either hold or hold with one hand and hit with the other hand. Then as the ref either called for a break or approached the fighters to break them up, Hatton would quickly release the hold and whip a left hook (most of the time to the body), which many times caught the opponent off-guard. In fact, if my memory serves me right, that is how Ricky knocked Castillo out. Mayweather wanted to absolutely make sure he took that move away from Hatton, and he did it successfully.

And a Merry Christmas to you too, my friend.

hawk5ins
12-09-2007, 09:32 PM
But am looking forward to rewatching it on the Tube as it was a it delayed and herky jerky at times (Not complaining! It saved me shucking out $55!).

But the thing that really struck me was Hatton's chin. Against Collazo, Hatton's chin did not look the best agianst a fighter who let's face it, could not hit. I shrugged that off as simply a bad performance at a weight Hatton wasn't used to coming in at.

Mayweather's power at 147, isn't simply a Question, IMO it's a known liability. Yet, he was able to hurt Ricky more than once as well as drop him and then stop him.

I didn't THINk Hatton would win. But I wanted him to very much so. SO much so that after watching the HBO 24/7 series, each episode I watched, I kept making in my mind, Ricky better than he actually was. And weaknesses and liabilities that I KNEW he had, I gradually erased in me noggin. By fight time I nearly convinced myself this was anyone's fight. Delusion. With a sprinkle of lack of common sense and a pinch of stupidity.

Credit Mayweather for the victory over Hatton. Good for him. But he was SUPPOSED to beat Hatton, becuase he WAS the better fighter.

Let's not make this victory anything more than what it was. And the last time we all saw Ricky at 147 (Collazo), well that should have been the reminder for ALL of us about what we REALLY should have expected here.

Hawk

PD99
12-09-2007, 09:37 PM
Re Ruiz-Jones. Ruiz didn't even begin to maul Jones before Nady came sprinting in to break 'em up.

Jones' fans were simply happy with Nady because he didn't allow Ruiz to even punch in close or rough Roy up one little bit. An uber clean boxing match that BEST suited Jones (and his fans) therefore ensued - resulting in a non too surprising decision win for Roy and little outcry from the Jones' supporters re Nady. Clearly, the style and accents of the fighter you root for can sometimes colour your perception of a referees performance.

However, I do concur that Cortez was too involved to begin with. He even got between the two fighters at point while they were both freely punching & had some distance between them. A bemused look from both Mayweather and Hatton induced a hasty retreat by Cortez. Also, don't forget, Mayweather ended up through the ropes and with his back fully to Hatton by virtue of a shove from Hatton who then blatantly tried to belt Floyd with a full blooded shot to the back of the head. Perhaps Cortez could've let it go but I wouldn't say the point deduction was unfair either.

Subtle as it might've been, Hatton's lost a tad of respect from me when he made ref. to what he percieved as dirty tactics by Mayweather. He went on to recover himself and note that boxing isn't a "tickling match". At least some of the more renowned practicitioners of dirty tactics didn't gripe one bit when their opponents felt obligated to return in kind.

Damn right the undercard was boring. Until the big one, my ppv transmission was perfect until some thunder started rolling in in my part of the world just in time to freeze up the audio/visuals intermittently throughout the big fight. First ppv I've purchased in yrs. Shite!

Btw,all opinions duly respected by myself also (though I respect mine the most of course :) ) and Merry Xmas to the board.

doomeddisciple
12-09-2007, 09:56 PM
I watched the fight through the link I provided and then again on PPV when it was played at a firends house last night.

The blury version I watched on the PC made Hatton look much more dangerous in the fight than the crystal clear version I watched on replay.

Hatton non stopped poured his heart into that fight, but the conspicuously absent body attack in part was what Floyd was offering him - In short - Not a whole lot - I can only think of two significant body shots that Hatton landed all night. Mayweather was just a bit too big and alltogether too skillfull for Hatton.

Hatton is too small for Welterweight, an armchair fan can tell you that from the Collazo and the weekends action alone - But his confidence and style are born in the way he uses his imposing physical size and strength on the 140 lbs class - Which to me there isn't many fighters that can deal with him at that weight.

The Witter fight would be a huge money spinner in the UK and I think Hatton would bang the pout clean off Paulie Malinaggi all night long. Hatton's back looked like you could serve a dinner for vie people on it - He is unnaturally strong at 140.

Did 24/7 work or what? The celebs that walked out during Floyd's Baldomir fight were well entertained all night and aside from booing the national anthem, which I give you is pretty disrespectful - You guys got more than your moneys worth in return for the atmosphere that the English fans brang to the night - The look of delight from all in attendance at the crowd was awesome to see.

Considering all they did was boo the anthem - At least they maintained the party atmosphere after their hero was discombobulated out of the fight in the 10th - From an international fans point of view - It just shows what English fans bring to any sport their countrymen contest - Atmosphere and fun.

Having put up with the "barmy army" (the name for English cricket fans) in Australia for a very long time here in Australia - I think it's just a good taste of what real fans bring to a sporting contest.

I found the fight more entertaining than a lot of you guys did. If only Cortez was the ref on the Tszyu fight, but I digress, I agree with the sentiment that Hatton didn't do enough when he was inside and credit where credit is due - Floyd nuetralised most of Hatton's inside work. He did it very well and I liked his adjustments throughout and the way he mixed it up - He really displayed the gulf in talent between the two fighters class and Ricky showed the heart and passion that made the fight more compelling for me to watch than DLH's effort.

DLH's reaction to Cortez and looking at him speaking to Mayweather after the
fight - You can see he's pretty bitter...

PD99
12-09-2007, 10:17 PM
Doomed (great name btw), I'll digress with you and agree that Tszyu would've been better served by Cortez than that English ref but if you had a choice between Cortez and Nady......?

Dan Gunter
12-09-2007, 10:32 PM
At some point during the first two or three rounds, I asked my friends, "Did Mayweather's people buy off Cortez?" But I thought that Cortez eased up after the first couple of rounds. Perhaps Cortez was, quite literally, overly officious. But perhaps he also wanted to demonstrate early on that he, and not the fighters, was in charge.

I'm an attorney, and when I think about issues like Cortez's performance, I think of what we attorneys call "the standard of review." That term applies to the way that an appellate court reviews decisions made by the trial court judge. "Review de novo" means that the appellate court looks at the trial court judge's decision anew ("de novo") and reviews that decision as if the appellate court judges were making the decision in the first instance. When an appellate court reviews a trial court decision de novo, the appellate court will substitute its judgment for the judgment of the trial court judge.

Another level of review is called "review for an abuse of discretion." Generally speaking, an appellate court reviewing for an abuse of discretion will ask whether there was any reasonable basis for the trial court judge's decision. If so, the appellate court will not set aside that decision.

I think that, in general, a referee's decisions should be reviewed for an abuse of discretion. A referee has a difficult task, which involves making split-second judgment calls. The referee is within a few feet of the action. He is as close as possible to the punches being thrown.

People looking at the situation from the outside--even people observing in real time from outside the ring--may have a different opinion from the referee. But none of those outside observers has the same immediate vantage point as the referee. Because the referee has the best vantage point, his decisions merit some deference.

So I ask myself, "Did Cortez abuse his discretion?" And I think that the answer is "No." I think--and I do mean "think," not "know"--that I would have been slower to break the fighters. But I wasn't right there on top of the action. Only three people were right there: Mayweather, Hatton, and Cortez.

From my view from the outside, I can't say that Cortez was simply out to lunch. Although I might (let me emphasize: "might") have made different decisions, I cannot say definitely that no reasonable referee would have acted as Cortez did.

So, despite my early grousing, I will say simply this: In my opinion, Cortez did not abuse his discretion.

I thought that Hatton was so eager to get inside that he was getting too far inside. And I think that Hatton had so much adrenaline going that he ran out of gas too soon. Hatton had greater success early on because he was so amped up--but you cannot go 12 rounds on adrenaline. When the rush began to subside, Mayweather made his move. Hatton had shot his wad (a term from black powder rifles, boys), and he was not able to handle some hard punches. But I also think that Mayweather's power is underrated.

I bought the fight, and I didn't ask my friends who joined me to pitch in on the cost. I was entirely satisfied. Others may disagree. So be it.

doomeddisciple
12-09-2007, 11:35 PM
Doomed (great name btw), I'll digress with you and agree that Tszyu would've been better served by Cortez than that English ref but if you had a choice between Cortez and Nady......?


Well, I guess considering that Tszyu came out on the good side of a Nady fight with Judah and that Cortez DQ'd Tszyu against Leonardo Mas, I'll take Nady, but begrudgingly... ha ha.

Another thing - Anyone else notice after the fight Floyd's hand specialist practically screaming for someone to cut Floyd's gloves off like his life depended on it???

PeteLeo
12-10-2007, 02:23 AM
Haven't been by in a while, nice to see everyone on the board!

Yeah? Well, we'll have to see what we can do about stamping out a subversive attitude like that a.s.a.p. PeteLeo.

daddymofo
12-10-2007, 02:44 AM
Yeah? Well, we'll have to see what we can do about stamping out a subversive attitude like that a.s.a.p. PeteLeo.


Well, milk and cookies always help. Maybe a ticker tape parade announcing my arrival.....

walshb
12-10-2007, 03:38 AM
Two things:
Either I severely overrated Ricky or I underrated PBF

I honestly believe I overrated Ricky.

PBF fought a great fight and was simply too good in every department,
including inside fighting. Hatton had no real spark in there. He also seemd
really really nervous, and not just the normal nerves. He was IMO a little
scared and lacked confidence

Regarding the ref:
Did anyone notice Billy Graham kind of lecturing the ref
on how he wanted Ricky to be given a fair crack of the whip and allowed
fight his fight. It was wrong of him to do that and all it did was to get the
refs back up. You don't ever try and influence a referee. It will only make the ref
more determined to 'screw' you......

Either way, Hatton was never going to beat PBF....

I got it very wrong and now I can't see where Hatton can go.
The Oscar fight won't have the interest due to Hatton being beaten
so convincingly and I originally thought at 147 Hatton would be too good.
Oscar I think is too big and strong and talented.

Hatton came in at 145lbs and was definitely not big enough for Welter.
PBF came in right on the button and in the top flight every ounce makes a difference.
Hatton wasn't truly ready to beat a top welter....

walshb
12-10-2007, 07:22 AM
Can someone clarify for me as to why the three judges and the ref were American?
I'm almost certain the three judges were from Nevada and that Cortez is a US citizen?
How is that allowed and how is it fair?
Is there an official reason for it?

wpink
12-10-2007, 07:58 AM
Good point about the judges, but it didnt matter, luckily, as mayweather was clealry winning, and he made it so it never got to their hands....

As far as Mayweather goes, are we now starting to realize what we have here. I have been critical of him, and doubted him too, but the man is simply the best of this era. He is doing things in this era, no one is close to doing, and he campaigning 17 pounds north of his original weight, and beating very very good fighters. He is beating these fighters how ever they want to fight him, where ever they want to fight him, in what ever ring, with what ever gloves, and it is mayweather who in the ring so thoroughly outclasses and out fights them, that they become frusterated, tired, fouling, makeing excuses, hoping the next fighter beats him (dlh), all the while Mayweather is whipping their asses.....

No none of these fighters are legendary top 10 fighters, but Mayweather clealry is moving up the top pound per pound all time ranks, and if he isnt it is simply because there is bias involved in whom ever refuses to move him up. I am not saying he is a top 5 or 10 yet, what I am saying is that he deserved to be mentioned in the conversation of the fighters of all time.

What he did to hatton a 43-0 fighter who came in determined, fought his fight, Mayweather did not run as many alwaiys tried to say he does, mayweather did not cry to the ref, he simpply toughened up and beat Hatton at his own game, and them destroyed him.

Give the man his props.....Cotto has literally no chace vs Mayweather. Look at what happens to any fighter that tries to box him. You think a old Mosly gave him fits, what do you think Mayweather in his prime is gooing to do, especially when he can not hit him cleanly, and he is catching counters, right leads, and left hooks, which by the way the left hook was there all night for Mosley,,,he just was not pulling the trigger......And we all know Cotto has been hurt several times...seriously....

walshb
12-10-2007, 10:02 AM
Cotto would be a dream fight andf I'm sure he would offer a lot more than Hatton.
He will be stronger and is more a natural welter. I know I had picked Hatton to win, but really Hatton on Saturday night had nothing to offer and never IMO threatened Floyd. He annoyed Floyd at times, but never imposed or worried. PBF fought well and is class, but beating what
was in front of him on Saturday night was not true world class. I don't know if Hatton was simply exposed or if Ricky just couldn't get it together, but it was a poor performance in a lot of ways....

hagler04
12-10-2007, 10:52 AM
First off, the undercard was AWFUL. Please, promoters, when you have a guaranteed golden goose like this PPV, don't shit all over boxing by having these crap fights on the undercard. It's a slap in the face of the fans. I know Manfredo-Lacey seemed perhaps decent on paper, but come on . . .

Now the main event, went about how I thought it'd go except the knockout, although I do think Hatton was knocked out by the ring post as much as he was by Floyd's left hook. Hatton clearly bothered FLoyd early with his aggression and footspeed, and Floyd for the first 6-7 rounds fought as UGLY as all his critics contend . . potshot and run . . .potshot and grab . . .it was awful. I thought Cortez was breaking them up WAY too soon in the early rounds, Floyd was doing excessive holding, and Hatton should have at least had the opportunity to do some work in there.

However, Hatton lost fair and sqaure. He had good head movement early on but by the middle rounds was coming straight in, he neglected the body, and never jabbed in at all. By round 8 Hatton was tired and Floyd was able to just pick his spots and use his combos. I was surprised when Hatton basically was overwhelmed by Floyd's speed and didn't doing much firing back when FLoyd revved up the gasoline.

I think the size difference was significant too. Hatton was clearly a weight class smaller . . FLoyd has filled out a lot and is at least a much BIGGER 140 lber than Hatton, if not a true welterweight.

diggity
12-10-2007, 12:08 PM
I started to think Cotto had a great shot against PBF but after seeing what he did to Hatton I'm not so sure anymore. The only guy I see with a shot to beat PBF is Williams for all the obvious reasons but honestly its not a fight I care about seeing all that much. Williams physical advantages are just too much. Has there been a frame that ridiculous at welter ever? Unless PBF can learn to train with elevator shoes, that fight isn't happening & probably never would anyway.

I suppose I would like to see him fight Cotto so I can see him take on a truly strong welter. PBF has been taking punches here & there at this weight so it would be a little interesting to see how he deals with that strength. But either way you slice it...Cotto, as does Mosley, gets hit too much for me to get all that excited about either fight...& Cotto has been getting cut worse with each passing fight.

After this fight I don't see how anyone can really can't pick on PBF anymore. I never believed he could be a true welter but he's pulled it off. I figured Hatton & PBF would be similar strength-wise but it was PBF who appeared stronger. As much as I believe Hatton thwarted his own attack & was careless, the result would have been the same. Cortez or not, PBF was beating Hatton at his own game with his own tricks. PBF is just too smart. I give him a lot more credit after this win. He showed a few more wrinkles to his game in there.

lu047w
12-10-2007, 01:37 PM
But am looking forward to rewatching it on the Tube as it was a it delayed and herky jerky at times (Not complaining! It saved me shucking out $55!).

But the thing that really struck me was Hatton's chin. Against Collazo, Hatton's chin did not look the best agianst a fighter who let's face it, could not hit. I shrugged that off as simply a bad performance at a weight Hatton wasn't used to coming in at.

Mayweather's power at 147, isn't simply a Question, IMO it's a known liability. Yet, he was able to hurt Ricky more than once as well as drop him and then stop him.

I didn't THINk Hatton would win. But I wanted him to very much so. SO much so that after watching the HBO 24/7 series, each episode I watched, I kept making in my mind, Ricky better than he actually was. And weaknesses and liabilities that I KNEW he had, I gradually erased in me noggin. By fight time I nearly convinced myself this was anyone's fight. Delusion. With a sprinkle of lack of common sense and a pinch of stupidity.

Credit Mayweather for the victory over Hatton. Good for him. But he was SUPPOSED to beat Hatton, becuase he WAS the better fighter.

Let's not make this victory anything more than what it was. And the last time we all saw Ricky at 147 (Collazo), well that should have been the reminder for ALL of us about what we REALLY should have expected here.

Hawk

Hawk5ins, perhaps you may recall the two statements I made below.


And finally, the laughable idea that if Mayweather defeats Ricky Hatton and the winner of the bout between Mosley and Cotto that we will "have to start considering him a top pound per pound of all time fighter" is absurd. Ricky Hatton is the underdog. NO ONE thinks Hatton will defeat Mayweather except his delusional admirers. If Hatton does defeat Mayweather it will be a huge upset. Beating a fighter that almost everyone believes you would beat when the fight was signed proves very little.

This was posted later.


I actually, despite my criticisms, think far more highly of Mayweather than you do apparently. A victory over a relatively ordinary fighter, in comparison, in Hatton would not impress me at all. That's how talented of a fighter I believe Mayweather is. If he completely dominated Ricky Hatton I would not be surprised in the least.

This is such a huge upset. The far more clever, technically brilliant and athletically gifted fighter defeated a significantly less talented practitioner. I'm shocked.:rolleyes: Hatton is a courageous battler but despite his undefeated record he is, and I quote myself, a relatively ordinary fighter in comparison. Hatton was NOT a "very, very good fighter" as some would like to suggest and he never will be. I've actually observed individuals making the almost comically baseless claim that Floyd Mayweather "proved" or affirmed his "greatness" by defeating Hatton.

I do not even consider Sugar Ray Leonard one of the true legends of the game (He was without question one of the greatest welterweights of all-time but was he really greater than Kid Gavilan, Jose Napoles or Luis Rodriguez?) but he was a FAR more lethal combination of SPEED and POWER than Mayweather has ever been at any stage in his career and would have easily and brutally knocked out the defensively inept Hatton in similar fashion to Dave Green.

Whatever. If some choose to praise Mayweather for defeating an opponent that EVERYONE thought he was going to defeat when the fight was announced that is their choice.

Ron Lipton
12-10-2007, 01:53 PM
Disapointing effort by Hatton. Where were his lefts to the body? Where was some head movement? YOu cant come in on champions wide open like that. The check hook that koed him is basic boxing 101 and you provide the power yourself by charging in like that. Its a hope you run into it. Ricky should have watched films of dempsey and armstrong.
Give big credit to Mayweather who knows how to box. YOu get a man in close and tie up just one of his arms and you take away the leverage to bang and Floyd did that. Smart well schooled cookie.
Hattons corner didnt have a clue about what to do and Ricky didnt adjust while Floyd as a good champion should be was patient and kept with the plan.
Ricky was very poor in his offense. Very poor. I saw no effective punching while in the past he has been very effective to the body and with double hooks. He also head hunted too much. A man with limited power coming in like that is supposed to hit arms, hips, shoulders etc (remember Joe Frazier hitting Ali like that?)
Mayweather seemed a bit bigger than Hatton and when a guy doesnt punch that well it can be a big drawback if your punch and landing rate isnt high. But lets face it, it wasnt like he was facing a Virgil Akins, or Emile Griffith or Carmen Basilio for strength and size and power. It was a winnable fight for Ricky because he DID have the legs to get in there and execute. ITS JUST THAT HE DIDNT.
Poor defense lost him that fight and Floyd is a fine boxer who knows what to do with the openings handed him. Give him a A.
Good sportsmanship by Floyd after the fight and hes a lucky guy in a big money era. Ricky Hatton should stay at 140 and go to the films and work on defense.
Will Floyd fight Cotto? I dont know if Cotto is fast enough to get to Floyd. If he had Hattons legs he could win such a bout as he knows how to hit anything and be patient for the break down.
JOE CORTEZ WAS TERRIBLE. Just terrible. To take a point away like that when Floyd turned his back while in the ring fighting was wrong and his constant breaking up early of the fighters took Hattons chances down a peg. Bad choice of refs and he was very very biased or appeared that way. Where is Ronnie LIpton when we need him.

Thanks Rock, you said it all. Perfect analysis!

hagler04
12-10-2007, 02:15 PM
But am looking forward to rewatching it on the Tube as it was a it delayed and herky jerky at times (Not complaining! It saved me shucking out $55!).

But the thing that really struck me was Hatton's chin. Against Collazo, Hatton's chin did not look the best agianst a fighter who let's face it, could not hit. I shrugged that off as simply a bad performance at a weight Hatton wasn't used to coming in at.

Mayweather's power at 147, isn't simply a Question, IMO it's a known liability. Yet, he was able to hurt Ricky more than once as well as drop him and then stop him.

I didn't THINk Hatton would win. But I wanted him to very much so. SO much so that after watching the HBO 24/7 series, each episode I watched, I kept making in my mind, Ricky better than he actually was. And weaknesses and liabilities that I KNEW he had, I gradually erased in me noggin. By fight time I nearly convinced myself this was anyone's fight. Delusion. With a sprinkle of lack of common sense and a pinch of stupidity.

Credit Mayweather for the victory over Hatton. Good for him. But he was SUPPOSED to beat Hatton, becuase he WAS the better fighter.

Let's not make this victory anything more than what it was. And the last time we all saw Ricky at 147 (Collazo), well that should have been the reminder for ALL of us about what we REALLY should have expected here.

Hawk


It was the same with me Hawk. Damn 24/7 . . a fight I was 'ho-hum' about I gradually became very excited about, and Hatton's chances blossomed in my head!!! HBO does know how to do good documentaries to a T.

hawk5ins
12-10-2007, 02:16 PM
I wouldn't say that Defeating Hatton is completely on Par with beating Arturo Gatti, but it's pretty god damned close that's for sure!

Let's put it this way, if Gatti and Hatton ever had squared off at 140, I doubt a victory would have been assured by Ricky. It would have been a war.

I recall after Mayweather Gatti, much of what I am reading now was being said then of Mayweather. Why? It WAS Arturo Gatti and it is NOW Ricky Hatton. Tough Kids no doubt. But come on now.

I Absolutely HATE bringing up the comparison becuase it no doubt sends certain posters off on making threads something they are not, but I do look at Sugar Ray Leonard and his victory over Davey Boy Greene and see a benchmark we should use. Honestly, What on earth seperates Greene from either Gatti or Hatton?

Well if you consider that the version of Greene that Ray beat was much closer to his prime than the Gatti that Floyd beat and CERTAINLY a much more legitimate Welterweight than Hatton ever will be. And THEN take into consideration that Ray's win over Greene carried about as much significance and accomplishment as if it were no more than a Non-title bout, yet Mayweather Gatti and Hatton are somehow "SUPERFIGHTS" and "career defining performances"?

I just don't get it.

Colin Jones or Ricky Hatton at 147? Based on the TWO performances at this weight agianst Colazzo and now Mayweather, would ANYONE take Ricky Hatton at Welterweight over Jones? Did Donald Curry "silence is remaining critics" when he sliced up Jones in 4?

I Like Ricky Hatton. Alot. But please folks, as Lu just detailed.......It was Ricky Hatton. Mayweather did what he should have done. Let's congratulate him on his victory. But beyond that.....

Hawk

hawk5ins
12-10-2007, 02:33 PM
Could do a "24/7" on Refridgerators and by the end of the series, convince every every Eskimo living in an Igloo, that they too needed to purchase the latest Sub-Zero.

Hawk

Rafael
12-10-2007, 03:01 PM
I agree with Hawkins, and I was thinking exactly the same thing (that Hatton is no better welter than Davey Green) as I saw the fight.

In any event, what is really weird about Hatton's style is that he's not a fighter with the mindset of a conventional pressure fighter, which is getting on the inside and unloading combinations on his opponent, like say Juan Diaz or Glen Johnson do. Hatton's mindset is very different. He seeks to get on the inside, maul, wrestle, headbutt, and push, with the goal of disrupting the opponent, and hoping to land some shots in between. In the process, he wastes a lot of energy, and has a hard time creating the leverage to land more than one clean shot at the time.

I give a lot of credit to Mayweather for being clever enough to adjust and solve Hatton's awful style, but, in all honesty, Hatton is not a top 5 (perhaps not even a top 8) welter. I am fairly confident Hatton would lose to guys like Berto and Clottey, in addition to the top 6 welters out there. So yes, this is a good win for Mayweather, but not one that will meaningfully enhance his legacy, IMO.

rocky111
12-10-2007, 03:52 PM
Had Ricky Hatton moved his head coming in, lowered his body, kept his arms tight to his sides and hooked with his hips he would have had a much better chance. He has a good chin. He ate some good shots, but a check hook landed on a guy running forward can take down a ox. It took down Gene Fullmer......

Enswell
12-10-2007, 03:55 PM
No jab cost Hatton the fight. Had he jabbed his way in he wouldn't have gotten hit with all those counters, including the one that dropped him for the first time. And it wouldn't have had to be a great jab, just a left hand out in front. Charging in without punching gave Mayweather the time he needed to throw those counters, and the chance to look like something he's not: A great puncher at 147.

starlingstomp
12-10-2007, 03:57 PM
I'd say Green was actually clearly better than Hatton at Welter despite being technically horrible and limited.

He never stopped throwing punches and had wins over Stracey(Hatton this generations Stracey?possibly) Very good Hawk Price and was neck and neck with Palomino in a great fight before being stopped.

But rightfully so, he was seen as a solid second-tier guy and miles away from any kind of career definer.

It remains to be seen if Hatton can do anything more to improve his legacy at 140.I'm guessing most have seen more than enough to realise he isn't A level material as a Welter.

hawk5ins
12-10-2007, 04:13 PM
At 147 Imo, BOTH Greene and Jones were superior to Ricky Hatton.

At this point, I'd say Hatton is still no better than Luis Collazzo at Welterweight. The same Collazzo (All 13 ko's of him) who repeatedly rocked Hatton, when they met. (Hatton........Fullmer!?!?!?!?!??!?!? OY! Mayweather's Hook........Sugar Ray Robinson's Hook!?!??!?!?!?!? DOUBLE OY!)

I would hope that beating Luis Collazzo is not a career definer fight for anyone either.

Hawk

Thomas44
12-10-2007, 04:30 PM
What an incredibly fast left hook by Mayweather that first put Hatton down ! Even in slow motion replay the hook was so quick and accurate while Floyd was pulling backwards .

It would be interesting if boxers had their reflex speed measured throughout their professional career and their speech cadence too.

evander
12-10-2007, 05:09 PM
Floyd's speed completely neutralized Hatton's body attack. The lead rights and quick jabs made Hatton's head look like a "Pez dispensor" when he got hit and totallty killed Hatton's drive to go to the body.

doomeddisciple
12-10-2007, 08:43 PM
Floyd was running the check hook on Hatton all night when in a corner.

He landed one about round 8 or so and narrowly missed with it several times.

I think Teddy Atlas made an interesting point about Grahams belly bag and how it's not a good aparatus to teach body punching with because it's not shaped like a pro fighters body (unless Hatton moves up to HW and fights butterbean) - It makes Hatton punch wider and leave holes for faster fighters to exploit.

Floyds left arm down, right arm crossed hiding behind the shoulder and inside game though was far too canny for anything that Hatton bought and his vaunted body attack was all but neutralised.

evander - the pez dispenser line is dead on - LOL.

wpink
12-10-2007, 09:01 PM
Hawk,,great analysis..and no I am not going off on a Sugar Ray leonard rant. I did think about Davey Boy Green as well. I think the main difference is that in that era there were 4 other great fighters that had proved themselves (wll Tommy had not actually proved anything yet) to be formabile foes and the Duran drum was beating louder and louder, so there was not steam behind a Davey Boy Green fight, but I was actually shocked at his resume and the backing he had when I researched him several years after the fight.

I think that what we have is tremendous marketing by Golden Boy productions, putting 24/7 in everyone's living room, in a time with reality shows, and following peoples lifes is the focus of society. You notice Mayweather stock skyrocketed with the help of DLH. They then match the perfect storm after he beats DLH, in fighting Hatton and all of his huge following, and I am sure that part of the focus on 24/7 was to get this good guy vs bad buy perception. Mayweather fell right into that stereotype.

There are many reasons as to why this fight was blown up larger than they probably would have been in different eras. However Mayweather deserves kudos because he is beating everyone he faces, which are very good fighters at a weight class 17 pounds north. Meaning he is campaigning very effectively at this higher weight class vs very vry good competition, and is undefeated, this is something we can not ignore.

Also, for those discrediting hatton because he is no legit Welter...Hmmm Neither is mayweather, he moved up from 130, not Hatton,,,,, So I think that Mayweather as much as I criticised him before, you earn your stripes in the ring, and Mayweather is doing it. You can not accuse him of not fighting fighters,....He is fighting good fighters back to back to back...Cotto Just arrived on the scene, as has Williams. Margerito is a joke for an opponent...

I do not see Mayweather fighting past 2 more fights. He will destroy Cotto, but Williams would be a huge huge mountain for him to climb. Mainly because of Height reach, and punch output issues. Cotto is perfectly made for Mayweather....

Michael Frank
12-10-2007, 09:58 PM
As far as PBF now being an all-time great or moving up those ranks, I STILL have to disagree. I always ask, just WHO are these people he's beating? After Saturday, I'm still asking. And Hatton is no more great now than he was before the fight, IMO worse because even when top fighters lose, it doesn't have to be by KO/TKO.

Floyd has yet again beaten a non-great. Were he to beat Cotto, IMO he STILL would not be beating an all-time great. It's not his fault that his competition is less than stellar, but he's no Ray Leonard, nor Ray Robinson. For that, not only would he need to have all the gifts (I think his power at recent weights is not impressive, nor the "turning around" move, among other things), but he'd need to beat a great fighter or two when they're in their primes, which he hasn't done YET IN HIS CAREER because they can't be found.

Sort of like a Larry Holmes legacy, except that, to me, Larry showed great, well-polished talent and heart even against a non-great cast of contenders.

wpink
12-10-2007, 10:28 PM
I am not so sure about him not being a Ray Leonard. No he does not have a Duran or heanrs to measure against...However he is undefeated in 18 title fights, he has moved up from 130 and beaten Correles, Castillo, Gotti, Judah, Baldomir, Dlh, Hatton, Hernandez...... He has -0 losses, and is campaigning at 147,,not slipping in getting a fight them moving back down or retiring. He is fighting good fighters at Welterweight.

The public is very hard on him ( I was too) in comparison to others. I beg to mention that his resume of victories is comparable to others who did not beat any greats or only one.....Duran... Now Duran is considered all time top 10 by everyone including me. However, duran beating Buchanon, Dejesus, Marcil, etc...and all the losses as he moved up,,,and one at lightweight.....Save for the one victory of SRL... and Barkley (the name is not that great just that he won at that high of a weight)..Are we to say that Mayweather can not get all time top 20 discussion when he has moved up more favorably and undefeated than one that is a consensus top 10 and many on here top 5.

I love my boy ray, but he did not campaign at the higher weights, he let a smaller man come up and beat him ( as mayweather so direclty told Ray face to face years ago), he didn not have the sustained career that Mayweather has, nor the title defenses. What ray does have is 4 great names on his resume that propels him into my top 10, but Mayweather was beating champions by his 20 fight, and moved up and beats people on their own terms, territory, their own style. Remember when Ray fought Durans style he lost, Mayweather stopped Hatton at his own style. Duran moved up to face leoanrd....While Mayweathe was the bigger fighter he is not a natural welter he originally was lss than Hatton. So Mayweather is smart and physical too, he was smart enought to know how to conter act the inside stuff coming into thier first fight, and did not have to take a loss to regroup, he also physical enought to dish it out,,,He was on the ropes and not getting hit, unlike Ray...

I think that Mayweather is honeslty proving his points and many will be too biased to look at him factually and based off of what he did and remove the hatred. If you look at him you will see a fighter that is simply great....too great for many of us to appreciate. He is fighting and not getting hit, fought a toe to toe fight and was only hit 67 time4s..he got hit behind the head,,fouled etc,,,was hit in the balls by Judah...and each time his professionalism and poise showed him to be bigger than nonsense...

Mayweather may not have that signature win that Duran has when he beat leonard, nor the 4 legends for him to face and beat as Ray did. but Mayweather also has as stated above defense, undefeated record, better success at higher weight class, wins vs very very good competition. All of this in my book allows for Mayweather to not yet equal a Duran or Leonard on pound per pound ranking, but he is moving up to the slot right behind them, and if he beats Cotto and Williams he moved ahead...IMO

prototypeofamodernmadman
12-10-2007, 10:42 PM
I know it was awful...but let's talk about the undercard some more, the first fight, who cares,

we can't really blame Ponce de Leon because his opponent, escobedo, had that very annoying habit of bending all the way down the second De Leon began throwing in combination, De Leon never really landed a real solid clean shot all night, Escobedo was very technically sound and repeatedly caught De Leon coming in with more and more consistency as the fight progressed, as soon as De Leon fights anyone in the division that can punch hard, (Vasquez, Marquez) he gets hit way too much to last, he'll get knocked out,

how about that Manfredo Lacy fight folks? Lacy is TERRIBLE, Manfredo threw that fight away and could have easily won as he was much faster and landed just about all of the punches that he threw, the scores were unfairly lopsided in Lacy's favor but come on, the people that are handling his career should tell him ro just hang em up, he's gonna get hurt out there, Manfredo's
a joke too, he fought with no confidence and just couldn't pull the trigger against someone who was right there for the taking,

yeah I just wanted to bitch about the AWFUL, SHITTY undercard, Golden Boy sure is greedy, they promoted the two biggest Pay per view cards of the year and saved every possible cent in putting these crap undercards together

diggity
12-11-2007, 12:48 AM
well said proto

Enswell
12-11-2007, 03:10 AM
"I do not see Mayweather fighting past 2 more fights. He will destroy Cotto, but Williams would be a huge huge mountain for him to climb. Mainly because of Height reach, and punch output issues. Cotto is perfectly made for Mayweather....[/QUOte

I think Mayweather will keep fighting as long as the money is there, and maybe a little while after that.

walshb
12-11-2007, 03:52 AM
One other thing I noticed was how easily Hatton crumbled.
Did he really take such a beating?
I don't think so?

The first time PBF really unloaded and Hatton was done?

The one thing I always thought was that Hatton could be
hit all night and still keep coming.
If you look at the beatings Gatti and Ward took, Hatton's pales
in comparison.

I really believe Hatton was done before he even got in the ring.
His confidence was lost and his energy sapped....

And I agree with Mr Frank, where are all these great welters.
They cannot be found and until such time as they can, PBF
IMO can only truly be assessed at 135-140, and his lower resume...
I rate him highly at these weights

KOJOE90
12-11-2007, 02:16 PM
I really believe Hatton was done before he even got in the ring. His confidence was lost and his energy sapped....

I to with a few days hindsight am wondering about Hattons performance against Mayweather Jr. Yes I am a Hatton fan and am honestly not trying to make excuses or take anything away from Mayweather Jr.

But since the fight I few thoughts have passed through my mind such as was Hatton already on the slide physically? Hi-octaine fighters like Hatton often burn out before they are 30. Did the years of between fight weight issues finally catch up with him? Also did he spend too many years/fights in the UK defending his WBU strap? There are also now rumours flying around that there were major problems in the Hatton camp leading up to the Mayweather fight, but this may just be the usuall Internet rubbish.

As for Mayweather Jr? As much as his on screen personality annoys me, as a fighter he is quite remakable. At Welterweight the likes of Duran, Leonard and Hearns would have asked questions of Mayweather he has never had to answer in this era but that doesn't mean The Pretty Boy would not have been able to come up with a few answers.

Bottom line Mayweather Jr would more than likely be in the mix at the elite level in any era.

This same debate was doing the rounds a few years ago about Pernell Whitaker I seem to recall, another 'none punching' defence minded fighter with a style not to many fans taste, which make it hard for some of us (including myself here) to admit they may on a given night had the beating of some of our heroes of yesteryear.

rocky111
12-11-2007, 04:05 PM
Hatton at 147 appears to have slipped compared to Hatton at 140 ex the guy who fought Vince Phillips. He did not handle the extra weight well and would have fought Mayweather Jr. better without the extra weight no matter that Floyd weighed 147.
As far as taking punishment, Gene Fullmer was koed by the same type of check hook. You come in hard and if it connects on you, you go down hard witness Vic Darchinyan. Hatton is a tuff boy and has a good chin. He ran into a big one.

starlingstomp
12-11-2007, 04:18 PM
I think ever since the Tszyu bout Hatton has been sloppy and declining technically.

He reminds me of Simon Brown, who was far more versatile earlier in his career before gradually becoming a plodding one-dimensional fighter.

Hatton was never versatile, but he at least used to keep things a lot cleaner and used good footwork to set everything up.

I don't think the change in style has made that much difference to how good he ultimately would be at world level.Undoubtable that it made him far worse to watch for all but the most dedicated fans.

Michael Frank
12-11-2007, 04:48 PM
I am not so sure about him not being a Ray Leonard. No he does not have a Duran or heanrs to measure against...However he is undefeated in 18 title fights, he has moved up from 130 and beaten Correles, Castillo, Gotti, Judah, Baldomir, Dlh, Hatton, Hernandez...... He has -0 losses, and is campaigning at 147,,not slipping in getting a fight them moving back down or retiring. He is fighting good fighters at Welterweight.

The public is very hard on him ( I was too) in comparison to others. I beg to mention that his resume of victories is comparable to others who did not beat any greats or only one.....Duran... Now Duran is considered all time top 10 by everyone including me. However, duran beating Buchanon, Dejesus, Marcil, etc...and all the losses as he moved up,,,and one at lightweight.....Save for the one victory of SRL... and Barkley (the name is not that great just that he won at that high of a weight)..Are we to say that Mayweather can not get all time top 20 discussion when he has moved up more favorably and undefeated than one that is a consensus top 10 and many on here top 5.

I love my boy ray, but he did not campaign at the higher weights, he let a smaller man come up and beat him ( as mayweather so direclty told Ray face to face years ago), he didn not have the sustained career that Mayweather has, nor the title defenses. What ray does have is 4 great names on his resume that propels him into my top 10, but Mayweather was beating champions by his 20 fight, and moved up and beats people on their own terms, territory, their own style. Remember when Ray fought Durans style he lost, Mayweather stopped Hatton at his own style. Duran moved up to face leoanrd....While Mayweathe was the bigger fighter he is not a natural welter he originally was lss than Hatton. So Mayweather is smart and physical too, he was smart enought to know how to conter act the inside stuff coming into thier first fight, and did not have to take a loss to regroup, he also physical enought to dish it out,,,He was on the ropes and not getting hit, unlike Ray...

I think that Mayweather is honeslty proving his points and many will be too biased to look at him factually and based off of what he did and remove the hatred. If you look at him you will see a fighter that is simply great....too great for many of us to appreciate. He is fighting and not getting hit, fought a toe to toe fight and was only hit 67 time4s..he got hit behind the head,,fouled etc,,,was hit in the balls by Judah...and each time his professionalism and poise showed him to be bigger than nonsense...

Mayweather may not have that signature win that Duran has when he beat leonard, nor the 4 legends for him to face and beat as Ray did. but Mayweather also has as stated above defense, undefeated record, better success at higher weight class, wins vs very very good competition. All of this in my book allows for Mayweather to not yet equal a Duran or Leonard on pound per pound ranking, but he is moving up to the slot right behind them, and if he beats Cotto and Williams he moved ahead...IMO
Good points all. However, I look at a fighter and evaluate his skills, speed, smarts, athleticism, chin, heart, etc. while he's in the ring, and not only based on record (though I admit I brought up the record before). And, IMO, looking at Mayweather and Leonard fighting their opponents--and NOT KNOWING their records at all, hypothetically--I'd think Leonard the special one, a significantly more talented fighter. Just my viewpoint.

As to the smaller man coming up to beat him--I hope PBF was referring to Duran, and not Camacho at the very end of Ray's career--Duran then was such a great fighter, that a narrow loss to him, given Leonard's growth from that bout and subsequent dominance of Duran in 2 more fights--I don't hold against him to much of a degree. I wonder just who at 147 would have beaten Duran that night (my thoughts: perhaps Robinson or Hearns). If Mayweather were to lose to someone like that Duran--and he hasn't ever fought anyone close to Duran--and lose with a fine performance as Leonard did, and then come back from it to be even better, I'd be the first one to give him lots of credit. But frankly, I can't see the professional Mayweather lasting 3 rounds with the amateur Andres Aldama whom Leonard defeated for gold in 1976.

I'd add that in other sports, greatness is not always defined by longevity and total numbers, but by simply, evident, clearcut greatness. Examples: Sandy Koufax and Gale Sayers. Both were dominating during their brief, but brilliant, careers. Both are rated by "experts" and casual fans alike as better than most HOF athletes at their positions who had much longer careers.

So, too, I think it's the case with Leonard. Nearly every bout was a masterpiece. I just can't say the same for Mayweather.

HE Grant
12-11-2007, 04:51 PM
I'm a bit surprised to see all the past Hatton supporters jumping ship ... he fought the best fight that he could. Mayweather is not only a considerably better fighter, he is one of those fighters that do not allow their opponents to look good against them. He is like Pernell Whitaker in that reguard ... Hatton made an exceptional effort to chase Mayweather down and he succeeded far more than De La Hoya did a few months ago. However, to do so he had to take risks that a Zab Judah did not have to take. As far as the KO shots, as we all know anyone can go if hit right and Ricky was hit right. IT was a terrific shot multiplied by his coming in to it ... we knew his chin was simply B plus and not an A from his other welter bout ...

Ricky fought a courageous fight and a high caliber fight against a man who was simply both better and extremely frustrating ... he will go back to 140 and do quite well for a while if he remains focused and motivated and I think he will ...

hawk5ins
12-11-2007, 05:16 PM
REALLY need to pop in a copy of the Hatton Collazzo fight and jog their memories on just how "tuff" Hatton appeared to be in his previous trip to 147 pounds. He Sucked ASS that night.

Any comparisons of Hatton's chin (specifically at 147) to Fullmer's, and Robinson's power at 160 compared to Floyd's at 147 (pound for pound within the weight classes)..........c'mon now. Let's not only be serious, but let's be honest with ourselves.

Hawk

wpink
12-11-2007, 05:46 PM
I think when all is said and done and we look back on Mayweather, we willl say the same things about him that we say about other fighters in our era, or are not the new fighters, when arguing with fans of the current era who try to hype up the newest sensation.

That facts are staggering. Undefeated even after winning titles in 130,135,140,147, 154 weight divisions...UNDEFEATED. 18 title fights or defenses no losses. Mostly WBC titles not some wbo versions etc... Has fougth the best at 130,135, 140,,,very good at 147, and 154...

He has not had the 3-4 mega superstars fighters who are at their peak, to justify by itself that he is a top 10 great, but he has done every thing else. Including the fact that he is campaigning at 147 and fighting very very good fighters and easily beating them. Easily!! He is not taking much punishment at all, has ko'd fighters, punished fighters, outslicked fighter, outlasted fighters, outsmarted fighters, outtoughted fighters..... He has not had to lose to comeback better, he adjust inside the ring, and after the 6th round his opponent is history.

Many just will not allow their mind to think logically about a current fighter who has a loudmouth and represents what many of us hate...He is a young black athlete, who is bragging in front of everyones face about his riches, his Bi*&^es, he looks, he disrespects everyone inlcuding ex greats to their face, his father and trainer are idiots,,,but the fact remains he should be considered a top pound per pounder of all time,,Not the top,,but a top.

How can we justify Ray leonard over him when you look at longivity, title defenses, titles in differnent weight divisions, defense ability...The only thing Mayweather does not have going for him is that ray was lucky enough to have Duran who beat him the first time (moved up to do soo), Hearns, Hagler, Benitez.... Mayweather did not lose to a fighter when he fought their style, then came back and beat them. He beat that fighter at his style and ko'd him....Now before the fight 99% of fanz were saying this fighter is a very good fighter, and would be a great test,,Now everyone is belittling Hatton... No he is not a great welter,,,and yes he moved up from 140,..but Mayweaher is not a original Welter either...Leonard was a orginal welter and he lost to a figher who moved up from 135.and fighter who IMO did not have a great record past Lightweight......Yes I love Ray, but the fact is Mayweather if he beats Cotto should be in the same breadth,, maybe even ahead..

Duran..simply compaing any fighter on this board to the uncomparable Duran, gets some very very very upset. So let me compare mayweather exploits to those of a figher who dominated the lightweights in the 70's and had 70-1 record doing soo.. Mayweather fougth day in day out better opposition, never lost, and moved up around the same time that this fighter did...Mayweather does not have the singular great name on his resume of a win over Sugar Ray leonard that this fighter has, but he does have wins over other fighters from 135 and up and no losses that IMO signals that at least in his career post his original wieght, he has been more successful. I am only comparing mayweather to the version of this fighter up until age 34. Mayweather never quit, never has been ko'd, did not lose at his original weight, has just as many if not more titles in difffernent divisions. Yes the arugment is that this fighter dominated the lightweight division as did hopkins for a entire decade... I always ask tell me the names of the great fighters he beat at Lightweight,,I know he beat some very very good fighters,,, but so did Mayweather, Corrales, Castillo, hernandez,...etc..

Hearns...he beat cuevas, then got Ko'd by Leonard, ko'd duran at 154, beat Benitez, then got ko'd by Hagler, beat virgil hill, but got ko'd by Barkly and lost the other fitht to him...He did some great things...How can this fighter be rated pound per pound all time above mayweather..

Hagler, very dominant middleweigh....but best victories came vs Welters that moved up to face him, or jr middlews.. Not his fault, as it is not mayweathers, so he deservess to get the kudos for his dominance at middleweight for 10+ years...beating everyone that came his way until Leoanrd. Does this stack up favorably to the above mentioned exploits of Mayweather?

No need to mention Benitez.....I have even heard some say Pryor..PLEASE.... Who did pryor ever beat who was at their prime and was a legitiament jr Welter....

I could go on and on. The point is we (me included) like to look favorable upon those we grew up idolizing and judge with bias. All of a sudden a newer generation comes, and there are new posters who look favorably on that fighter,,,thus the debate ensues about Mayweather vs legends such at the greats of the 80's...We slamm all of what mayweather does..and challenge who those fighters where, and exhalt the oppositon of our favorites, when in reality is Hatton any better than Ken Buchanon.....is beating Vrigil Hill better than Mayweather beating Judah...Is Duran going 70-1 with at least 30 fighters on his resume that he should not have fought...comparable to mayweather going 30-0 with all of his fights since he was 18-0 vs good figigters and many champs or ex champs.. I dont know, I am not,,repeat am not a Mayweather fan, but after really debating today with some mayweather fans, and stepping back and looking with out bias...We maybe are not appreciating Mayweather for what he is today, and that is a fantastic all around fighting machine that was bred to be a champion,beat all styles, and do it in a way in which he does not get a lot of damage inflicted on himself.

hawk5ins
12-11-2007, 05:55 PM
To all of these points in other threads dedicated to those subject matters.

I don't think there is a need to discuss, for example, Aaron Pryor's Greatness legitimacy in a Mayweather Hatton "Results and discussion" thread.

Especially since that subject has been covered multiple times over in other threads PERTAINING to........Aaron Pryor.

Hawk

wpink
12-11-2007, 06:15 PM
Let me rephrase...I am addressing our perception of Mayweather and how no matter what he does or vs whom, many of us will not allow ourselves to measure him equal or favorably to hour favorties that we hold in such high esteem. I think when we look back at him, and his accomplishments, and we are arguing with someone who is saying the champ of year 2020...we will knock their accomplishments and competion in comparison to Mayweathers.

I am not saying all, but many of us flat out refuse to except that maybe just maybe this kid is the real deal, and should be ranked up there with the Leonards, durans, Pepps,,,etc...

hawk5ins
12-11-2007, 06:35 PM
Of the posters on this site, do not allow bias or favortism or contempt, affect how greatness is judged ion a fighter in thier eyes.

Granted you can see from the tone of certain posts and posters, that that is indeed the case here and there.

But I believe most on this site are "professional" boxing fans.

If one's evaluation of Floyd Mayweather does not MEET the level that others hold him, please don't assume it is based solely on "popularity" and/or worship of a by-gone era.

Everyone surely should be judged individually here, but I would hope that the knowledge displayed by posters here on THIS site and what they have to offer on subject, would place them above accusations of "Hater" rhetoric.

Hawk

Michael Frank
12-11-2007, 06:36 PM
Yes, I guess my issue is off track in this thread, but if I may be indulged... I think my points on Leonard above were completely ignored by you, Pink. To reiterate: I'm not looking at numbers on the record, I'm looking at what the fighter looks like before my eyes. I think Leonard was better, and he sure looked better in how he won his fights, dramatically and definitively, compared with most of Floyd's wins, in my view.

Floyd's numbers may continue to go up, but I don't see the same level of skill as Ray. Again, IRRESPECTIVE of who has how many successful defenses.

For those who rank Monzon above Robinson at middleweight (though I don't), Monzon certainly can't compare on total record. But, they look at what he did, to whom, and how-- total numbers play into it very little. Same with me as to Leonard being a more polished and talented fighter than Floyd. If to no one else, to me.

Another factor: Floyd's winning ugly. Example: I just can't see PBF beating Cuevas at 147. No way does he take those shots. But, I concede that he MIGHT, but then I can see only one way--very ugly and boring. Either running or clinching. Not the exciting way Tommy did it.

I would note that 3 of Mayweather's titles are in divisions that didn't even exist many decades ago. Or else the likes of Robinson, Armstrong, and others would have likely had several more belts.