View Full Version : Pavlik-Taylor Card Results & Discussion 2/16/08

10-23-2007, 03:29 PM
Rematch is set for mid-February. But why would a guy who lost his title at 160 insist on a rematch clause for a non-title rematch at catchweight (166)? Was Taylor torturing himself that much?

10-23-2007, 06:56 PM
I heard that too about the weights. It wasnt any secret from what I heard that Taylor has had a rough time getting that low his past few fights. Strange to see he doesnt care about the belts but it shows he wants to give it his best shot. The bout is still very winnable by Taylor but either way I see Pavlik taking the rematch & hope he does for entertainment's sake.

10-23-2007, 07:01 PM
How about Pavlik, does he have a hard time making 160?

10-23-2007, 07:04 PM
Seemed Pavlik had trouble getting down too, so it would seem the over the limit bout will help his cause also. He will still be champ if he loses, so it is kind of a win-win situation for him, a good payday and he getsTaylor out of his hair.

10-23-2007, 07:15 PM
From what I heard (believe it or not) weight has not been much of an issue for Pavlik. I suspect at 166 will only be more of an advantage for him.

10-24-2007, 02:17 AM
Pavlik could easily carry up to 175 on his frame and maintain strength.

11-12-2007, 06:53 PM
& it's about time....


11-12-2007, 11:18 PM
I couldn't agree more.

11-13-2007, 12:46 AM
During the Cotto Vs. Mosely fight Emanuel Steward said , "He thought that the referee did a good job for the Taylor Vs. Pavlik fight".
I thought that was odd, but it must have been after ties were already
broken and explains his candor on the subject........

11-13-2007, 02:35 PM
Good move for Taylor, he needs to get Budy McGirt.

11-13-2007, 06:20 PM
Dont think Manny can be blamed for JTs lack of ability.

Pavlik will knock him out again.

11-13-2007, 10:26 PM
I think Manny has to take some of the blame for JT's apparent lack of a Jab when that used to be his best punch. Taylor now fights in the Kronk heavy handed style that Manny has made so famous, but it is really doesn't suit him. He was primarily a guy who would out work you with his jab and he was very effective when he fought that way. He needs to go back to that as soon as possible. Manny is a HOF trainer no doubt but sometimes a trainer doesn't fit a guy's strengths.

11-13-2007, 10:57 PM
Taylor has looked nothing short of robotic since Steward. He was a lot more loose before he got hold of him and I can't tell you a single area he's improved since. I think going back to what got him to that point is a start in the right direction. I think someone like Roach who doesn't look to overhaul a fighter from the ground up may be good for him.

12-22-2007, 05:40 PM
What strategy does Taylor employ in the rematch? I see him either bombing away early in an attempt to get Pavlik out of there, or running all night and out speeding and out slicking Pavlik, either strategy that he employs he probably doesn't have the stamina to see his plan carry him to victory, as we saw in the Hopkins, Ouma and Spinks matchups, Taylor just isn't active enough and hesitates much too much before throwing, i dont see him being able to employ a 12 round hit and don't get hit boxing strategy against someone as relentless as Pavlik, if he attempts to bomb away early pavlik will probably be better prepared and won't let himself get caught wide open like in the first fight,
and either the same thing happens as in the first fight or Taylor walks into something while going for broke and the fight ends even earlier than the first time, my pick, Pavlik by mid rounds KO.

12-22-2007, 06:06 PM
Hopkins/Spinks and Ouma were all under Manny.

This one isn't. I think Manny took Taylor and tried to create something just not feasible for him. Pat Burns had him comfortable, and jabbing well, in every fight. He was controlled and dominated everyone he fought. Forget the fact that it was a huge step up, Taylor was NEVER comfortable in the ring when Manny took over. He never, ever even looked decent with Manny in the corner.

I'll be the odd ball, I think Taylor dominates this fight at 166, and launches himself into a big fight at 168 with Kessler or Calzaghe. Lacy would also be a possibility.

12-22-2007, 08:47 PM
Big fight with Lacy? Lacy's a joke, his handlers need to tell him to hang em up

12-23-2007, 05:35 AM
I am looking forward to this fight..

I think the catch weight may suit the
naturally bigger Pavlik better. He has the frame
to move up and retain or increase that punch
power. Taylor relies on speed more than
power and he may be hampered here.
Saying that, Pavlik's wobbly chin is always a danger
for him and had Taylor been a better finisher back in Sept, he
would have retained his title..

This is a tough call and a win for Taylor sets up a
mega rubber match. If he boxes clever and doesn't trade
too much, he can win. I think it's very hard
to call, both are suspect to heavy punches and it's a matter
of who lands first and follows up better....

12-23-2007, 11:21 AM
I think Pavlik beats him down again.

Pavlik won the first fight because he was a better fighter - it had nothing to do with the weight.

Taylor at 166 will just give him an excuse not to train as hard. Taylor is done.

12-23-2007, 11:37 AM
I think Pavlik beats him down again.

Pavlik won the first fight because he was a better fighter - it had nothing to do with the weight.

Taylor at 166 will just give him an excuse not to train as hard. Taylor is done.
Had Pavlik not looked so shaky in rd 2 after taking a few whacks, then yes I would be more confident of him beating Taylor again. The first fight was very close and Taylor boxed very well and landed very well. He just couldn't take it like Pavlik could. Taylor IMO has the ability and skills to beat Pavlik if he gets the tactics right and boxes very clever. Like I said, both are potential KO
victims as both have less than concrete chins....This could be a very hard one to pick...

I'll go with Kelly to win again.....

HE Grant
12-23-2007, 02:54 PM
It takes a great fighter to comeback from a devastating KO loss. Many try and most fail ... that is why Lennox Lewis was great fighter in my book ...

Taylor should be able to have a very good shot if he concentrates and boxes Pav ... however, like Oscar, Taylor seems to have stamina issues even in 12 round bouts ... imagine 15 round days ...

If Taylor can pull a Terry Norris against Simon Brown 2 or if it is more of a Forrest/Mayorga 2 remains to be seen. I'd like to see if Pav improves or not ... he really had his head handed to him in the second round of that first fight and I was and remain still amazed he survived it ... either man is capable of stopping the other so I look forward to the rematch as both are in their primes and evenly matched.

12-27-2007, 11:58 AM
I think this is very winnable for Taylor. I would like to see him try to get his right hand down a little. It seems every right hand is an overhand right.

Off The River
12-28-2007, 09:39 PM
If Taylor doesn't learn to keep his left hand up, he will get KO'd again.

01-04-2008, 06:34 AM
I am afraid Taylor is going to win this one. Remember, he seriously hurt Pav in the first one before getting hammered.

01-12-2008, 08:36 AM
I picked Pavlik to beat both Miranda and Taylor, but I think that Pavlik will have an easier time in this bout and I believe that he will bust up and knockout Taylor within five rounds. Pavlik was stronger at 160 and he seems to be more comfortable at 168, so he should be quite a bit stronger in this bout as compared to the last fight.

Pavlik's biggest flaw is that he does have a tendancy to take too many clean shots and eventually that will catch up to him, just as it catches up to all other fighters, and he will be knocked out a time, or two unless he can really tighten up his defense, but regardless of whether he wins, or loses...the fight is going to be an exciting fight either way!

Pavlik KO 5

01-31-2008, 08:15 PM
It seens like Taylor's KO power has said bye bye since Steward. So I think it's a good move. Maybe someone can light a fire under his ass. Bring back that Taylor who was up and coming. The young lion with a great jab and TNT in his right hand.

01-31-2008, 11:02 PM
I still don't think Pavlik would have went down after being hurt in the second round. He seemed like he was recovering when he got cocky and stuck his chin out and Taylor, good fighter that he is, ripped his protruding chin with some good power shots and Kelly went down. Hopefully he learned not to be stupid again to prove "macho."

Michael Frank
01-31-2008, 11:38 PM
This one's a very tough call. Taylor clearly is capable of knocking out Pavlik, as he almost did so. The converse is true as well.

I think of this as pick 'em, and I'll go with Pavlik because I think the first time Kelly nails Taylor, Jermaine will recall the vicious KO he suffered in #1 and he'll lose any mental edge he may have.

HE Grant
02-01-2008, 11:34 AM
It really could go either way. I like Pav and was amazed at his win but the man is beatable. IT is a fight I'd like to see, one of the few that interest me today ...this is where my head is at today relative to the sport, I am more interested in C's Langford book and the far in the future Jeffrie's book by Adam.

02-13-2008, 11:57 AM
I hate to complain, but it bugs me that this fight is PPV. I'm all for stuff like Jones-Trinidad being on PPV; real matchups that are competitive should be on regular cable, so more people can see it. It's gotten really expensive and tiring to be a boxing fan -- HBO had 14 PPVs last year, and had its best-ever PPV year, so the number of PPVs is just going to increase.

I think Pavlik will win a decision. I see Taylor being gun-shy and safety-first all night, because now he knows damn well that it's not Corey Spinks or Kassim Ouma throwing back (or Bernard Hopkins feinting and twitching for 24 rounds).

02-13-2008, 05:11 PM
Taylor has to box. And Move!!!!!!!! He stands in front of Kelly and its curtains again.

HE Grant
02-13-2008, 08:52 PM
I will not pay to watch it on Pay per View ... this is the first I heard it is on PPV and I am disgusted. It's a shame as I am very interested in the fight but the overall greed factor turns me off ...

I am starting to think Taylor has to hurt Pav early and keep him on the defensive through out. If Taylor does not stop him early he does not have the stamina to outbox him over 12 ... Pav will catch him ...

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
02-14-2008, 10:56 AM
Saturdays fight will end with Taylor stretched out on his back and unconscious.

02-15-2008, 11:26 AM
I'm picking Pavlik to win again, more than likely inside about 7 rounds.

Taylor will then move up to 168lbs. Taylor vs Froch for the title in 2008/9 anyone?

02-15-2008, 11:27 PM
Pavlik should win this fight. what bothers me is he is so wide open when he throws a punch. His chin is right there to be hit. With that said Pavlik did win the battle of the jab. It was in Taylor's face all night. I'm picking Taylor in this fight. I think this time he can counter Pavlik's right hand and make him think twice about throwing it. If Pavlik out jabs Taylor again it's over. I think we will see more movement from Taylor. Taylor by 5th round KO.

02-15-2008, 11:53 PM
I'm with Mr.Big, only I have a strong feeling it'll be later. Pavlik really impressed me with his fortitude, stamina and recuperative powers last time. And based on the two HBO Countdown shows, this is a guy I'd love to have a few beers with- what a seemingly decent and grounded kid.

That said, Taylor used to jab like a metronome before Steward got involved and tried to change him into something he's not. This is an athletic guy who needs the fight to come to him. Fighting Kelly Pavlik, the fight WILL come to you, Pavlik comes forward no matter what. Taylor's faster hands are the difference for me and I see Kelly getting hurt again early and a calmer Taylor keeping him hurt, keeping him off balance and methodically beating him down.

Taylor TKO9 Pavlik in a much more one-sided reversal of the first fight.

Whoever wins, I think we'll all know by the end of the first round who that's going to be. By that, I mean the over/under of how many power shots Kelly lands. If Taylor can keep that number in single digits, he's on his way. If not, he's on his way to another drowsy collapse in a corner.

02-16-2008, 09:59 AM
Zev will do the honors tonight & for those not buying the fight we thank you.

Per usual, please keep all discussion of this card to this thread. Redundant threads will be deleted.



HE Grant
02-16-2008, 11:35 AM
I would not be shocked at all to see Taylor win this fight. He may be Patterson to Pav's Ingo ... we'll see tonight ...

02-16-2008, 03:12 PM
There is something Tony Zale-ish about Kelly Pavlik. He is a good fighter and I was wrong about my pick in the first fight. Pavlik is like Tony Zale and Hearns mixed together. Yet, something smells like a triology to me. Taylor nearly and should have kayoed Pavlik in the 2nd round but failed to do so. The smart money says Pavlik, but once again I smell triology like Zale-Graziano, then again I could be wrong again too.

02-16-2008, 04:16 PM
Pavlik by stoppage in the 5th

02-16-2008, 05:07 PM
Taylor's forte seemed to be his speed. He showed it early on, but it slowed down to a "catchable" pace because of Pavlik's unrelenting aggressiveness.

Kelly seems to be the stronger battler, a rock-solid banger with a respectable chin. I would be inclined to pick his style of combat over that of the speedier Taylor, every time.

hap navarro

02-16-2008, 05:33 PM
I'm a little surprised to see so many picking Taylor.I'll go with Pavlik via KO round 6.Taylor just dosen't react well to being pressured.He's not used to it.He's the one who had been doing the chasing his whole career.Yeah he hurt Pavlik the first fight but he couldn't keep him off of him the rest of the way.Pavlik smothered him and will do so again tonight.I think we have a repeat of the first fight here.

HE Grant
02-16-2008, 05:39 PM
It is a strange call because it is not like Taylor lost by a fluke one punch ko ... however, the way he was able to tee off on Pav in the early part of the first bout makes it a pick em to me ... however, I'm not thrilled with the excuses for the loss I have been hearing offer on the HBO previews...not enough sparring, ect... all nonsense ...to me it's if he has the ability to use his superior skills to fight a different fight for 12 rounds, like Terry Norris against Brown the second time ... we will see ...

02-16-2008, 05:45 PM
Disregarding the winner, does anyone not see an entertaining battle ?

I expect a whole lot of controlled vi-o-lence. .

02-16-2008, 07:44 PM
Tonight should be a very interesting fight. I suspect this time out Taylor will remember to rely on what got him to this point & fight an intelligent fight. He's gone plenty of rounds with talented fighters but although none with the package Pavlik brings. As much as I suspect Pavlik to push Taylor, I think Taylor will manage to stay out of danger for much of the fight & will be able to keep Pavlik honest and win most of the rounds on his better speed and footwork.

This all sounds great for Taylor except I cannot see him doing this all night under that pressure without some big mistakes or without slowing down. You need much more than a good jab & a better than average right to keep someone like this off. Taylor will likely be forced to shelve many of the bombs he threw at Pavlik in their first fight for this affair & trade it in for footwork, stamina and longevity in the fight.

I would feel different if Taylor got KOd with a shot he didn't see but he saw all of Pavlik's shots coming and his chin just did not hold up. I just don't think Taylor has the ability to keep himself from trading in spots with Pavlik's style & as he slows down, Pavlik's signature power that has never failed him will still be there.

A slick boxer will eventually take Pavlik apart but IMO Taylor is not that guy. Although Pavlik is 100x better a boxer than Tua, he will probably win this Tua-style (lose most rounds & score a late KO when the other guy winds down).

What the hell...Pavlik TKO 11

HE Grant
02-16-2008, 07:55 PM
Maybe I'm nuts but I feel like Taylor is going to catch Pav early ... if he does not, he has little shot ...

02-16-2008, 08:04 PM
My biggest question is where is Taylor's head? Is it up his ass where it has been for his last few fights? He has the talent,speed,and power to win. If we see the Taylor of pre-Hopkins then Pavlik is in for a tough time. He has to make Pavlik pay for walking straight in. If the lazy Taylor shows up all bets are off. I think this loss has woke Taylor up. Taylor by tko.

02-16-2008, 08:16 PM
Zev always does a great job in reporting the fight. For that we thank you.

02-16-2008, 10:48 PM
Good evening, everyone, and thanks for the kind words mrbig1, I appreciate it.

I've got a bunch of kids at my home tonight and I'm just trying to put all five of them to bed.

I'm gonna pass on the Mijares-Navarro match but will cover the last two bouts. I'll post the results of the undercard however. See you all in a bit.

02-16-2008, 10:59 PM
I wanted this on record before the fights started.

All those who didn't buy the card, like myself, compare Zevls work with espn for example, tomorrow morning. I can tell you right now, there is no comparison. From Z we get a more colorful, detailed and accurate account of what happens. Keep up the good work zevl and many thanks.

02-16-2008, 11:46 PM
Thanks Husker! This is the best board on the net, I respect everyone who posts on here, and it is my pleasure. As long as my satelite holds up, I'll be trying to bring the fights to the guys that can't watch or don't want to dish the often ridiculous prices they charge to watch these fights.

Early results:

In a battle of crafty southpaw super flyweights, WBC champion Cristian Mijares (34-3-2, 13 KOs) won a twelve round split decision over Jose Navarro (26-4, 12 KOs). Ring technician Mijares systematically outpointed Navarro, cutting him badly over the right eye and closing his left eye, en route to a 115-113, 117-111 win on two cards. Judge Doug Tucker turned in a bizarre card 120-108 for Navarro. Navarro is now 0-4 in world title fights.

Unbeaten junior middleweight Ronald Hearns (18-0, 14 KOs) scored an eighth round KO over Juan Astorga (11-2-1, 6 KOs). Hearns floored Astorga with a right hand late in round five and finished him at 1:10 of round eight.

In a flyweight bout, former world champion Brian 'Hawaiian Punch' Viloria (20-2-1, 12 KOs) won an eight-round unanimous decision over Cesar Lopez (20-5, 4 KOs). Viloria floored Lopez with a right hand in round five and went on to a 77-74, 78-73, 78-73 victory.

WBC #2 super welterweight Sergio Martinez (41-1-1, 22 KOs) won a four round unanimous decision over David Toribio (14-10, 8 KOs) by scores of 40-36, 39-37, 40-36.

Unbeaten super featherweight prospect Miguel Angel Garcia (11-0, 9 KOs) impressively knocked out Jorge Ruiz (5-4-1) with a huge right hand at 1:35 of round five.

Middleweight Daniel "The Golden Child" Jacobs (3-0, 3 KOs) scored a second round annihilation of Alexander Volkov (0-1-1). Volkov was down three times in round two. Time was 2:57.

02-16-2008, 11:50 PM
Up next is Fernando Montiel versus Martin Castillo.

Round One
Castillo flurries but doesn't land anything. Both fighters cautious early on. Montiel floors Castillo with a left hook. Montiel lands another left hook but Castillo doesn't seem hurt. Montiel's round by two points.

Round Two
Left hook lands again for Montiel as Castillo falls backwards into the ropes. Montiel lands a nice body blow. They trade right hands. Castillo jabbing. Montiel lands a couple more left hooks to close the round. Montiel's round.

Round Three
Both cautious to begin the round, not alot of action. Castillo lands a right to the body. Montiel lands a left hook. Montiel backs Castillo into the ropes with a combination of punches. Montiel looking like the heavier puncher backs Castillo into the ropes once again and flurries. Montiel's round.

Round Four
They bang heads to begin the round, no one is hurt or bleeding. Montiel lands another left hook and throws Castillo to the canvas. Castillo gets back up but when the fighters come together he gets floored by a flurry of punches, the final one being a left hook to the body. Castillo can't get up, fight over. Montiel looked very good, his power was the big difference.

02-17-2008, 12:11 AM
The main event is coming up.

Tony Weeks will be the referee. Judges will be Glen Trowbridge, Dave Moretti and Patricia Morse Jarman.

Round One
Taylor jabbing, Pavlik misses a right hand. They trade left hooks. Pavlik jabbing in center of ring. Pavlik lands a right hand, Taylor snaps Pavlik's head back with a jab. All action first round. Pavlik lands a right hand. And another. Left hook by Pavlik. Taylor lands a glancing right. Close round, very slight edge to Pavlik.

Round Two
Pavlik starts by jabbing. Both their jabs are effective, but Pavlik jabbing with more frequency. Taylor throws two hard right hands but they are both glancing. Hard right hand lands for Taylor but misses with an uppercut. Left hook by Pavlik, Taylor follows with a right. Taylor's round.

Round Three
Pavlik throws two right hands but Taylor blocks them with his gloves. Taylor landing his jab. Taylor lands a right hand, and another. Pavlik lands to the body. Right hand lands once again for Taylor. Pavlik not coming forward as much as in the first fight. Taylor lands jab as round ends. Taylor's round.

Round Four
Pavlik jabbing early. Taylor lands a left hook. Pavlik lands a right hand over the top. Taylor not as busy in this round. Pavlik lands two left hooks. Taylor lands a right hand and a left hook. Pavlik lands two right hands to end the round. Pavlik's round.

Round Five
Pavlik starting to come forward more. Pavlik jabbing. Right hand lands for Pavlik, Taylor follows with a left hook. Left hook follows a body shot for Pavlik. Taylor's nose is bleeding. Pavlik jabbing alot, setting up the right hands. Left hooks lands for Taylor. Close round, slight edge to Pavlik.

Round Six
Pavlik lands a left hook to the body. Taylor lands a right to the body. Pavlik jabbing, follows with a right hand. Pavlik lands a nice right hand in return. Taylor lands a combination to the body. Left by Taylor followed by a right hand by Pavlik. Another close round, edge to Taylor.

Round Seven
Taylor lands a couple of jabs to begin the round. Jab snaps Pavlik's head back. Slower round, Pavlik having a harder time getting off. Pavlik busier but Taylor with the flashier combo's. Taylor's round.

Round Eight
Pavlik jabs and follows with a right hand to start the round. Taylor lands a left hook. Pavlik backs Taylor to the ropes and flurries. Taylor lands a left hook after Pavlik comes in after a jab. Taylor lands a right hand, Pavlik lands a left hook to the body. Taylor lands a right hand. Taylor's round.

Round Nine
Right hand to Taylor's body starts the round for Pavlik. Left uppercut by Pavlik. Right hand lands for Taylor. Left hook by Taylor, right hand follows for Pavlik. Thudding right lands for Pavlik. They trade jabs to end round. Pavlik's round.

Round Ten
Looks like Taylor has adjusted to Pavlik's constant use of the right hand since the last fight. Pavlik jabbing. Left hook lands for Pavlik, Taylor misses with a right hand. Pavlik controlling Taylor in this round with the jab. Taylor lands a hard right hand. Taylor lands a jab and a right hand. Close round, slight edge to Pavlik.

Round Eleven
Pavlik backs Taylor to the ropes doesn't land much of anything. Taylor lands a left hook. Right hand to the body by Pavlik. Pavlik, the aggressor, backing Taylor up now. Thudding right hand lands for Pavlik and follows with a right to the body. Pavlik's round easily.

Round Twelve
Taylor lands a hard right, Pavlik follows with one of his own. Taylor's eyes are pretty swollen. Taylor looks fatigued. Pavlik following Taylor around the ring landing the occasional right hand. Body shot by Pavlik. Taylor lands one of his own. Pavlik landing jabs to end the fight. Pavlik's round.

The decision: Unanimous for Kelly Pavlik. Scores were 117-111, 115-113, 116-112

Pavlik's aggression won him this fight. Pavlik's a tough guy but he needs to rely less on his right hand. Taylor adjusting to this allowed him to make this fight more competitive and was able to last till the end. Good fight.

02-17-2008, 01:12 AM
I picked Taylor and rooted for Pavlik, so I can definitely live with this.

02-17-2008, 01:23 AM
I had Pavlik winning but it was a much better showing by Taylor tonight, still he wasn't active enough. Taylor has nothing to be ashamed of he fought hard I just think Pavlik's constant jab was too much. Both guys showed a lot of class in the post.

02-17-2008, 01:27 AM
Taylor just don't throw enough punches and you can't win fights like that.

02-17-2008, 01:27 AM
Pavlik was a machine who came in behind his jab and was consistant throughout. Taylor fought a much better fight but still had stamina issues,the body shot that Pavlik landed in the 11th didn't help either.

02-17-2008, 01:31 AM
Taylor certainly handled Pavlik's punches better with the added weight, but if the fight had been for 15 rounds I don't think Taylor would have last3ed through two more rounds. Pavlik could have really broken Taylor down if he would have thrown a lot of body shots as Taylor clearly did not like the body blows in the second half. I scored it 117-112 with Pavlik winning every round from the fourth round on except round ten which Taylor looked stronger in and landed the better shots. Taylor looked about as good as he ever has against a top ranked opponent, which Manny stated that this fight should bring Pavlik's star down, but Taylor looked just as good in this fight as he did in both fights against Bernard Hopkins, not to mention that Taylor was the only fighter in 15 years to beat Hopkins, so really Pavlik's stock should rise as this was the first time that he went past the ninth round, so just because he failed to score another knockout doesn't mean that his position should drop any...although I predicted Pavlik to score a knockout within five rounds in this fight, but as Merchant said...you can't score a knockout everytime out...especially when facing another elite fighter.

02-17-2008, 01:45 AM
Hey, man, did you run out of periods in the second half of that post?

Fun fight. I liked the first one better, but I ain't complaining. PeteLeo.

Michael Frank
02-17-2008, 01:46 AM
Zev, thanks very much. Great job everytime, and I sure appreciate it.

02-17-2008, 01:53 AM
Very good, close fight. Big diffrence in the fight was Taylor's going back to the jab. He adjusted well mid-way through and began to use his movment effectively. Unfortunately for him Pavlik just never stopped coming forward and remained consitent in the fight. Last two rounds won Pavlik the fight IMO, as I had it even coming into the 11th.

I would love to see Taylor fight Joe Calzaghe, or Kessler. He showed heart, and improvements in some basics he had not used effectivly in a while. I think the familiarity and comfort he had with Ozell made a big diffrence.

As for Pavlik, forget Tito and Duddy, the only fight I want to see at 160 is Pavlik-Abraham.

02-17-2008, 02:02 AM
Hey, man, did you run out of periods in the second half of that post?


You are an absolute freakin' riot, man. I swear, if my jaw was broken, I wouldn't be able to read anything you ever wrote because it would cause me severe pain.

Looking forward to seeing this fight next Saturday. Congrats to Kelly on the win, Jermain for giving a better, or at least longer, showing and I hope both of these guys have continued success in the future.

Btw, I want to see Pavlik fight Tito, not so much for the fight itself but I think Kelly'll win, make a large sum of money and then get back to the business of fighting the best out there.

02-17-2008, 03:06 AM
Good tactical fight, but not particularly memorable. Taylor, as always, faded late, and against a busy aggressor like Pavlik you just can't away with that. No matter who Taylor trains with he'll always fight in that tight, herky-jerky manner which spells doom for his energy-level in the later rounds. I had it even after the 10th but Pavlik swept the championship rounds to win the decision.

I was really impressed with Kelly's chin . . .Taylor landed some real crackers on him tonight and though Pavlik was stunned a couple of times he shook it off each time and came right back, never being really hurt.

160 doesn't have too much going on at this point. Only notable opponents I think could give Pavlik real competitive fights are Sturm and Abraham. I really would like him to move up to 168 and fight Kessler.

02-17-2008, 04:50 AM
The Montiel-Castillo fight was a bit of a surprise. I figured that fight would be a pretty even match-up. Montiel went right through Castillo. I'd like to see Montiel fight Alexander Munoz. There's also a young prospect at that weight from the Philippines, AJ Banal, who looks like he might be the goods at 19 years old.

02-17-2008, 05:21 AM
How about Mijares vs. Montiel? Two good Mexican boxers that seem to fall into brawls on ocassion (especially Montiel). I'd love to see it.

HE Grant
02-17-2008, 08:49 AM
Read DiBella's post fight comments ... I start by saying in no way is Lou any form of racist ... now my point... in describing Taylor's performance he said , refering to Pavlik, look he fought a monster ... no problem there but if a white fighter lost to a black one and the same comment was made refering to the black fighter I wonder how the media would have accepted it ... small, most likely meaningless point but just curious ...

HE Grant
02-17-2008, 01:19 PM
Does anyone think Taylor won the fight? George Wills of the Post reported he did. Of course DiBella claimed Taylor won. Does anyone know the newspaper decisions?

02-17-2008, 02:24 PM
Does anyone think Taylor won the fight? George Wills of the Post reported he did. Of course DiBella claimed Taylor won. Does anyone know the newspaper decisions?
I think George Wills was just trying to justify his pre-fight prediction of an easy Taylor win. Althought Jermain gave a good account and the bout was close after 10 he was hurt by a right hand in the 11th that was followed by a vicious body punch that he never recovered from and lost the 11th + 12th clearly. Both writers (Smith + Wills) of the N.Y. tabloids picked Jermain to win.

02-17-2008, 03:46 PM
The Associated Press had Pavlik winning 115-113. Doug Fischer of Maxboxing usually recaps press-row scoring after big fights in his Monday columns.

HE Grant
02-17-2008, 04:11 PM
THank you guys ...

02-17-2008, 08:34 PM
8-4 Pavlik. I would seriously question anyone who scored that fight for Taylor. They would never do so if I was watching it beside them.

I think it's safe to say that Emanuel Steward's tenure as head trainer for Jermain was a complete failure. Too much information, an uncomfortable personality clash and Steward's own underestimation of Pavlik were the reasons I observed. I got the feeling that Manny tried to turn him into an offensive or aggressive-minded fighter, when I'm not sure it's in him.

Ozell Nelson deserves much credit. He kept it simple and never screamed. Turn away from the right hand. Get to the body when you can. Time the jab and come over it with the right hand. If Taylor had more energy, he may have pulled something out of his ass!

I also don't buy the theory that Pavlik's stock should drop in any way. He should not be penalized because Taylor improved. He'd never seen 11 and 12 before and they were dominant rounds for him. This kid is showing us some telling stuff so far, eh?

02-17-2008, 09:01 PM
It was a solid, well worth the price tag night of fighting. Mijares continues to be a revelation to watch. He does so many things so well. He and Montiel would be fascinating stuff.

02-17-2008, 11:34 PM
I was also mesmerized by Mijares, Cliff. There were spots during that fight where I thought I might be looking at a top 5 fighter in the world P4P. Navarro won me over for life. What guts.

02-18-2008, 12:32 AM
I guess there's no reason to think Kelly can't box anymore.

Obviously the pressure of having a trainer like Steward was too much for someone like Taylor. He was much more relaxed than I've seen him in years...which says a lot about him since is was probably his biggest fight to date. Even in this loss he can celebrate the fact that he is back to what he does best.

I was impressed with both guys. I wish it would have been a little more brutal but this is what you usually get with rematches when no Latino fighers are involved these days. In retrospect, assuming Pavlik can box a few licks & it wasn't a complete fluke, this rematch should have chalked up to be exactly what it was. Both guys should move on for now & meet up a few pounds & years later.

Tito will lose brutally to Pavlik. I can't understand how anyone will think that fight will be any closer than his loss to RJJ. Sure Tito won't have to look for Pavlik but he will not put a dent him him as he is still a fat welter who has not hurt anyone at this weight with a beard. Pavlik is younger, fresher & much more powerful....and from what I see now a better boxer. I'm glad to see Kelly having a shot at that payday. Hopefullly it won't be so ridiculously priced so I have a chance at seeing it at MSG but I'm not holding my breath.

02-18-2008, 01:24 PM
Prod: I thought the same thing and this isn't a case where one fight overrates the man. His two wins over Kawashima and Arce were as butter as the one on Saturday. The only thing left is to see him with a total package type (like Montiel). The other ingredient will be whether or not he can consistently get top fights. Having a 115 lber pushing towards the top of the charts could endanger what P4P in the modern sense really is: an HBO marketing tool.

02-20-2008, 04:06 PM
Taylor was not able to throw more punches because he constantly had to move his hands up to block Pavlicks right hands. He was on the defensive all the time. He should have used movement to avoid that shot rather than stand in front and block and counter. He fell short just a bit. I also feel Taylor was weakened at the end (11th round he was ready to go) but he showed his talent and strength and hung in there making it a close fight. Pavlick stayed busy and that was the key. Pressure.

02-20-2008, 04:38 PM
Taylor was weakened at the end (11th round he was ready to go) but he showed his talent and strength and hung in there making it a close fight. Pavlick stayed busy and that was the key. Pressure.

A big right to the body from Pavlik around the 10th had a lot to do with Taylor's fatigue at the end of the bout.

02-20-2008, 10:59 PM
Why is it that Larry Merchant has to ALWAYS disagree with any statement made by the guest analyst, I seem to have noticed it mostly with George Foreman and now with Manny steward, Steward makes the statement that Taylor has more skills than Pavlik, Merchant replies, "there's more to skill than handspeed" or something, I like Larry Merchant but he is an asshole, I don;t think Merchant said one positive thing about Taylor all night, but he sure was sucking Pavliks cock, is it scripted to disagree to create entertainment for the viewers?

Pavlik won but he didn't look very good, he couldn't consistently break through Taylors defense and had to rely pretty much on the jab alone until opening up with the late rounds body work, Taylor on the other hand looked very good and landed a lot of great punches on Pavlik,

I think it between the 10th and 11th rounds when Pavlik comes back to his corner, and Miguel Diaz tells Pavlik to stop shaking hands with Taylor, that was hilarious,

02-21-2008, 02:53 PM
You are right Ricky. That body shot did Taylor no good at all.
I kind of think Larry Merchant was right in what he said. He commented on Pavlicks skills and his power made sense to me. I kind of thing Steward makes statements all the time and then goes back and takes them back. He said Taylor looked stronger in the early part of the 11th and then took it back as Taylor weakened. Fights are give and take and judgments change all the time. But I think Larry was on target this time.

HE Grant
02-21-2008, 04:24 PM
I find Taylor to be a highly underated fighter. People always talk about what he has not done and nothing about what he has done...

The man edged Bernard Hopkins twice, great achievements in their own right considering that Bernard went on to beat Tarver and Wright after his Taylor bouts. He beat Wright in a fight I do not think was as close as many say. He beat former welter champ Spinks. He beat on that African former mas murderer ... how about giving the guy credit for beating tough competition back to back to back without any light touches. IF he did not dominate so what? At least he was fighting and beating top world class fighters.

To rip Pav because he edged Taylor is a joke because beating Taylor is a huge achievement. He is a big, strong, fast, talented champion in his physical prime.

I just don't get it ...

Dan Gunter
02-21-2008, 07:42 PM
Pavlik has two wins over Taylor--one by way of a crushing KO, the other by way of a good technical fight in which Taylor showed his best form. It's hard to fault Pavlik for those performances.

02-21-2008, 08:19 PM
HE, maybe because some just aren't impressed with his tools?.

Doesn't matter to me if he isn't dominant, what might matter is him looking flat and ordinary in most of those fights.Especially against Spinks and Ouma(who was beaten more impressively by Karmazin).Come to think of it Karmazin looked better than Taylor against Spinks as well.

The Spinks fight was among the worst performances i have ever seen from a hyped middleweight champion.

Fair enough if you rate Taylor and i wouldn't say he's a BAD fighter by any means, but surely it can't be too hard to see why he has a lot of detractors

So far i think he has totaly failed to live up to the hype he was getting a few years ago, despite carving out a decent career.

02-21-2008, 10:36 PM
I think that's about the thick of it. I don't think anyone would argue that Taylor is devoid of talent but his career lends itself to such subjectivity its not even funny. Here's my view for instance.

-I thought BHop won the first fight, lost the second.
-I thought the Winky fight was a draw at best.
-I thought he looked horrible versus Spinks, draw to close win at best.
-I thought he looked very ordinary versus a pretty used up Ouma.

What made all of the fights after BHop even less impressive was the fact Taylor was the naturally bigger as well as younger guy. What stung even more was throughout his reign post BHop, he was harped on constantly for taking on smaller guys. The one time he finally takes on similar sized middle with a punch who wasn't 40 years old, he was KOd then beaten in the rematch. While I believe Taylor should be credited for steering clear of a late 90s-RJJ-like reign, his career screams objectivity & it certainly doesn't exempt him from criticism. He's a very good fighter, just not great.

Dan Gunter
02-21-2008, 11:40 PM
I agree that Taylor has looked less than impressive for the last couple of years. Taylor-Spinks was an embarrassment.

HE Grant
02-23-2008, 01:22 PM
Cory Spinks is exceptionally fast, an excellent boxer and highly elusive... a tough man to fight ... Taylor cleanly beat him ... is this different than Hagler going a competitve 15 with an old, blown up Duran or Monzon getting an extremely close decision over an old, blown up Griffith ?

Ouma is now shot ? Coming in he was smaller but no one said shot. The guy is tough as nails and proved it in the fight by taking shots that flattened Pavlik ...

Taylor fought a much better fight in the Pav rematch. Many thought he won it or deserved a draw. He came back in five months from a crushing KO loss. He showed huge courage, heart and the ability to adapt against an exceptionally tough, bid, murderous punching fighter. I think it's time DiBella stops milking him for every dime and let him get his career back on track with a few easier fights ... he is still young and has a future in front of him ...

02-23-2008, 05:37 PM
HE Grant, I agree with you about Jermain Taylor. I feel the Jermain career was kind of rushed or mis-managed. Taylor should have not been rushed to fight B-Hop(HBO and Larry Merchant pushed strongly for this), because clearly Taylor wasn't ready. Also, I'm probably in the minority, but I had Taylor winning 115-113. Dan Rafael, I think had the fight a draw. Manny Steward tenure with Taylor was a complete failure because Steward's main task right now is turn W. Klitschko into a Ukrainian version of Lennox Lewis. I was impressed by Taylor's heart and how well his old amateur trainer improved on what Steward had failed. Taylor should take about 5-6 easier fights and move up to supermiddleweight. Taylor has been burning muscle to make the middleweight weight for a long time now and I wish him the best. One last point, I think that Pavlik vs. a 154-156lb Oscar DelaHoya would be a much better fight than either Pavlik vs. Tito or DelaHoya vs. Mayweather 2 or is it just me?

HE Grant
02-23-2008, 05:51 PM
Oscar wants nothing to do with Pav who would wear him down and stop him inside of eight ... I think Tito has a punchers chance since he is a devestating puncher and Pav can be hit ... a long shot but you never know ..

I find all the Taylor criticism over the top ... here the guy comes back from a devastating loss to give the guy a super tough fight that could have gone either way and everyone writes him off like a bust ... how's this for a prediction ... Taylor's career will outlast Pav's and he will be champ again one day if he wants it bad enough ..

02-23-2008, 06:14 PM
I hope that you're right because I really like Jermain Taylor as a person. Very few fighters have ever looked good in fighting Hopkins, Winky Wright, and Spinks. If I were managing Taylor's career, I would have gotten him a couple of tune up fights before his rematch with Pavlik. Last week's rematch was too soon, yet Taylor nearly beat Pavlik. That alone says volumes about his heart and skills especially coming back from a devastating kayo loss.

02-24-2008, 01:50 AM
Watched the Taylor- Pavlik fight tonight. One judge had it 117-111, which is 9-3 in rounds. Gee, it was a lot closer than that. The incompetance of the judges never ceases to amaze me.

02-24-2008, 04:00 PM
Last night, I enjoyed watching a tape of the rematch
between Kelly Pavlik and Jermain Taylor just before the
farcial bout between Little Klits and Imbragimov took place.
Mind you, I don't believe that Pavlik or Taylor is going to
make anyone forget the all-time greats in the middleweight
division, but they are professional fighters who have some
skill and plenty of desire. As a result, I wouldn't mind seeing
them fight for a third time.

- Chuck Johnston

02-25-2008, 10:07 PM
Nature took its course with Taylor Pavlik. Taylor may be able to beat Pavlik 1 time out of 3 but who cares? Pavlik is the future & he will pole axe Tito. Who has Tito remotely hurt early who had any worth above welter? Cmon already. Tito is in it for the money & obviously couldn't care less who beats him for it. Proves absolutely nothing as would fighting Duddy. Thank God that murder has been prevented for now although it will still probably happen at some point. I find it disgusting that Duddy's people actually wanted that fight in June after that Vitaly-esque cut.

I like Taylor & I think he has a good shot of beating RJJ for a comeback fight....I'd like to see him take a softer touch first though. I'd like to see any of these guys fight Kessler. I hate the fact Kessler has no fight scheduled yet.