PDA

View Full Version : Q & A for Randy Gordon



Pages : 1 2 3 [4]

Randy Gordon
02-04-2010, 02:24 PM
Well, it's official: Bernard Hopkins & Roy Jons Jr. are going to finally face each other on April 3 in Las Vegas. The fight is being called The Rivals: Hopkins vs Jones II. More appropriate names might be "It's About Time" or "A Decade Too Late." And lucky me. I get to interview both of them tomorrow for my show on SiriusXM Radio. How can I be excited about these interviews? Or the fight? Had Jones won his last fight, I might be a bit more enthusiastic. Certainly, after seeing Jones flattened in the first round by Danny Green in December, I truly believed that future Hall-of-Famer Jones, now 41, had reached the end of the line. He had lost two of his last four bouts and five of his last 10, dating back to that fateful evening in May 2004, when Antonio Tarver shocked the boxing world with his stunning, one-punch knockout of Jones. But Hopkins, who has been seething and pursuing Jones for years, was relentless. He wanted Jones in that ring. As he works closely with Golden Boy Promotions, the fight was rather easy to put together.

And so, next Tuesday, the two will meet in front of the media in New York at the Hard Rock Cafe. Prior to that, I'll have them in studio at Sirius Radio.

It's gonna' be a fun interview. And a tough one at the same time.

I'm looking forward more to seeing ancient Randy Couture v. Mark Coleman than I am seeing Hopkins-Jones.

This one really should have taken place 10 years ago,

Oh, I didn't mention this: It's going to be shown on PPV. I think we are looking at one million non-buys!

-Randy G.

Randy Gordon
02-11-2010, 10:00 AM
Well, I did interviews with both Bernard Hopkins & Roy Jones in the Sirius Radio studios. Both talked a good fight, but I sensed that it was B-Hop who was drooling for the fight. He wishes it was April 3, already. Personally, I wish Jones would have retired BEFORE getting flattened Down Under by Danny Greene. He is now 2-2 in his last four fights and 5-5 in his last 10. His legacy is his legacy. Countless other vastly-gifted boxers have gone on long after they should have been retired.

Hopkins will make the pre-fight stuff interesting with his gift of gab. He spent lots of time telling the listeners how dangerous Jones is. I don't think Hopkins thought Jones was dangerous 16 years ago. He really can't believe he's dangerous now.

The reason I'm interested in this fight is because the principles here are Hopkins & Jones, two future Hall-of-Famers. One future HOF'er will win, the other will lose. Will the winner be the 41-year-old Jones or the 45-year-old Hopkins?

Promoters are calling this "Redemption." After nearly 17 years, I'm calling this bout "It's About Time." I'm sure you have your own name for it!

-Randy G.

Randy Gordon
02-17-2010, 11:23 PM
Am I alone in thinking that Joshua Clottey just may beat Manny Pacquiao?

-Randy G.

mrbig1
02-21-2010, 01:46 PM
Am I alone in thinking that Joshua Clottey just may beat Manny Pacquiao?

-Randy G.
Maybe. If Manny stands in front of Clottey and trades shots, then Clottey has a good chance. Moment,speed,and power is the way to beat Clottey. Manny seems to do that very well.

Elwill7847
02-21-2010, 06:45 PM
I dont see Clottey beating Manny at all. I see Manny being too fast for Clottey and I think Pacquiao has an excellent chance to stop Clottey late in the fight.

mrbig1
02-23-2010, 09:34 PM
Question Mr. Gordon. Is there any plans to mark the 100th anniversary of the Johnson vs Jeffries fight? Or in a PC world is it too hot of a topic?

theironbar
02-24-2010, 12:01 AM
Hope you don't mind the intrusion, but my friend Gary is putting a little something together:

http://www.johnsonjeffries.com/

mrbig1
02-24-2010, 08:28 PM
To boxing fans the color of someones skin means nothing. To the public it's another matter. Does the city of Reno want to bring up a sad time in our history? I don't think people today know what a big event this was. My Grandfather talked about it all the time. He and some friends when to the telegraph office to listen to round by round reports. To us it's a Celebration when two great fighters met to fight for the worlds title. Thank you Theironbar for your input.

Surf-Bat
02-24-2010, 09:33 PM
To boxing fans the color of someones skin means nothing. To the public it's another matter. Does the city of Reno want to bring up a sad time in our history? I don't think people today know what a big event this was. My Grandfather talked about it all the time. He and some friends when to the telegraph office to listen to round by round reports. To us it's a Celebration when two great fighters met to fight for the worlds title. Thank you Theironbar for your input.

I often wonder if there would have been such a fervered rush to find a white hope if a Joe Jeannette or a Sam Langford had won the title rather than the boastful, arrogant provocateur Johnson.

mrbig1
02-24-2010, 10:06 PM
I often wonder if there would have been such a fervered rush to find a white hope if a Joe Jeannette or a Sam Langford had won the title rather than the boastful, arrogant provocateur Johnson.
That's a great question. I don't think Jack London would have lost his marbles if one of them won the title. Don't get me wrong. There still would have been a call for a great white hope but with a lot less hate.

GanchoIzquierdo
02-24-2010, 11:43 PM
I agree 100%, mrbig.

hawk5ins
02-25-2010, 03:52 PM
Back when Johnson won the title:

THe color of a mans SKIN did Mean a whole lot at the time Jack faced Tommy Burns.

But to promoters, so did the color of money.

Jack Johnson was not only Black and Vastly talented. He was also Abrasive, Boastful, Arrogant and a Provacatuer.

I think it can be argued and quite effectively so, that if NOT for those latter traits of Johnson's, he NEVER get's a title shot at Burns.

I'm pretty sure that during that era, Talent, was Never going to be enough to get a Langford or a Jeannette a title shot. Jack brought an X factor that would cram assess into the seats: The Passion of fans to see his mouth get closed.

After Jack lost the title, it was easy to shut out black fighters from title shots BECAUSE of Jack's arrogance. But it was that arrogance that actually got him a shot in the first place. I'm not at all convinced that the Joe Louis approach works for Langford and Jeannette in 1908.

"Talented Black fighter, but who needs the headache? I can make more money for fighting a white challenger with much less risk."

For Johnson though, he FORCED that hand with his charecteristics and he COULD get the seats filled and thus bring in the money.

It's kind of a catch 22 here:

Because of Johnson, Black fighters were not given a shot at the title until Louis won the title in 1937.

But for a Black fighter TO get a title shot in 1908, he HAD to possess the flair and personality that Jack Johnson possessed.

Hawk

mrbig1
02-27-2010, 03:20 AM
The date July-4-1910 was chosen because it was thought Jeffries would win the Title on America's birthday for the white race. Now a 100 years has past. In 2010 we have a black Family living in the White house. The sad news is America doesn't want to remember a sad time in our history. To my Brothers and Sisters here at CBZ race plays a very little role in our topics. It's just boxing and it's long history. I think boxing and the city of Reno should mark the event. Maybe have both families come together to show how much America has changed.

PeterD
02-27-2010, 05:54 AM
Hi Randy,

Any update on a publication date of your book?

Regards,

Peter

Randy Gordon
03-05-2010, 10:07 PM
Peter: Thanks for asking about the publication of the book I have been working on for the past 100 years. When I became an employee of Sirius Satellite Radio three years ago, and began hosting the "Fight Club," I decided to hold off on publishing my book. In retrospect, I believe that was a good move, as so many interesting stories can now be added to the book.

As you are probably well aware, authoring a book can be time consuming. Right now, extra time is not exactly something I have. My time is spent between two gyms and SiriusXM Radio. However, I do see a light at the end of the tunnel, and if I have planned this right, I'll be able to get back to the book pretty soon.

Now that you've got my creative juices flowing, I'm gonna' go finish my chapter on Sugar Ray Leonard.

-Randy G.

GorDoom
03-05-2010, 10:11 PM
Hey Cuz:

Were gonna start up Wail! the CBZ magazine again. You up for contributing like you used to? It would be mucho apreciado ...

regards,

GorDoom

P.S. No guys, me & Randy aren't actually related we just share the same last name ... So we suppose somewhere along the line one of our relatives musta swapped some secretions so me & Randy figger we must be somehow related.

hawk5ins
03-05-2010, 10:44 PM
If nothing else, we can do some archives of Randy's old work!

I'd like a reprinting of his piece when he sparred with Howard Davis Jr.!

And of course, that article would not be complete unless we could supply the photos of that sparring session!

That was was some "porno" moustache Randy was sporting back in the 70's!

Randy how is the new boxing show coming along?

Let's catch up.

Hawk

Randy Gordon
03-09-2010, 12:23 AM
HAWK: Yeh, anything to do a story. The sparring session took place in Davis' rinky 'ol gym in Glen Cove. It was the same ring that Davis & Aaron Pryor sparred in only months earlier--a sparring session that Jimmy Jacobs once asked me "Is there any footage on that?" Had there been, Jacobs would have paid $10,000 for it. Anyway, Davis was untouchable. And his jab was unstoppable. It was the fastest jab I had ever seen. Not the hardest, but the fastest. To this day, I have never seen a faster jab thrown by anybody. Not Sugar Ray Leonard. Not Pretty Boy Floyd Mayweather. Nobody.

Photographer Bill Apter was there to shoot the session, and a bunch of his photos ran in the Stanley Weston publication we worked for (I'm not sure if it was World Boxing or International Boxing). So, if we ever re-ran the piece, which was shot, written and published circa 1978, we could probably find that mag and re-print the piece. I seriously doubt the owners of the mag will come after us legally for doing so.

As for launching the CBZ Magazine again: COUNT ME IN. YES, YES, & YES.

Oh, and Hawk, yeh, that moustache was, a you said, kind "Porno." I lost the "stash" on September 16, 1981, on a bet to Shelly Finkel. That night, we had a bet on the Sugar Ray Leonard-Thomas Hearns fight. He took Leonard. I took Hearns. Had Hearns won, Finkel would take me and my wife to dinner in New York. My moustache would have to go if SRL won. Guess what? I've never grown another one (except for the time in 1987, when I surgically had a birthmark removed from my upper lip and couldn't shave for three weeks).

As I hit the pillow tonight, I'm probably gonna' see Davis' jab coming at me over and over again.

And I'll still be getting hit by it!

-Randy G.

Randy Gordon
03-09-2010, 12:28 AM
HAWK: Yeh, anything to do a story. The sparring session took place in Davis' rinky 'ol gym in Glen Cove. It was the same ring that Davis & Aaron Pryor sparred in only months earlier--a sparring session that Jimmy Jacobs once asked me "Is there any footage on that?" Had there been, Jacobs would have paid $10,000 for it. Anyway, Davis was untouchable. And his jab was unstoppable. It was the fastest jab I had ever seen. Not the hardest, but the fastest. To this day, I have never seen a faster jab thrown by anybody. Not Sugar Ray Leonard. Not Pretty Boy Floyd Mayweather. Nobody.

Photographer Bill Apter was there to shoot the session, and a bunch of his photos ran in the Stanley Weston publication we worked for (I'm not sure if it was World Boxing or International Boxing). So, if we ever re-ran the piece, which was shot, written and published circa 1978, we could probably find that mag and re-print the piece. I seriously doubt the owners of the mag will come after us legally for doing so.

As for launching the CBZ Magazine again: COUNT ME IN. YES, YES, & YES.

Oh, and Hawk, yeh, that moustache was, a you said, kind "Porno." I lost the "stash" on September 16, 1981, on a bet to Shelly Finkel. That night, we had a bet on the Sugar Ray Leonard-Thomas Hearns fight. He took Leonard. I took Hearns. Had Hearns won, Finkel would take me and my wife to dinner in New York. My moustache would have to go if SRL won. Guess what? I've never grown another one (except for the time in 1987, when I surgically had a birthmark removed from my upper lip and couldn't shave for three weeks).

As I hit the pillow tonight, I'm probably gonna' see Davis' jab coming at me over and over again.

And I'll still be getting hit by it!

-Randy G.

Oh, and while I do three shows on SiriusXM per week, the boxing show is still about three weeks away from being launched. I hope to have a startuop date by next week. I'll be sure to keep you guys posted of the day, time and channels on both Sirius & XM.

hawk5ins
03-09-2010, 08:29 AM
I'll dig up a copy of the Davis Sparring session.

Hawk

hawk5ins
03-09-2010, 09:25 AM
August 1979 Issue of International Boxing.

On the cover is an article entitled "Solving the Muddled Heavyweight Picture and there are in a circle, pics of Holmes, Ali, SHavers, Spinks, Tate and Knoetze.

"Frustrated, I flung a hook at his Jaw. He picked it off on his right arm, then spun me into the ropes.

As I moved back into him, he saw me relax. A Hard, flashing uppercut found the pit of my stomach. Despite 200 daily situps, the punch knocked the wind out of me. Davis gave me a few mins to recover."

Good memories!

Randy, As I flip through the article, the moustache doesn't catch my eye as much as how ridiculously short Davis's trunks were. Man this WAS the 70's!

And of course the outside pic of the gym, which looks simply like a garage....Rinky isn't even the word!

This brings me back.......and I wasn't even there!

Hawk

mrbig1
03-10-2010, 07:44 PM
Can someone answer my question.

PD99
03-10-2010, 09:20 PM
I also remember the issue containing the article re Randy's sparring session with Davis Jr.

Not perfectly of course but the garage come gym stood out in my memory - as an early teen I wished I had such a gym myself. Maybe I'm wrong on this but did the article also contain a pic of Randy looking none too healthy after the sparring session - with a bloody nose?

At a tangent, I also recollect a late seventies Ring article that focused on Earnie Shavers and his sparring partners. Jeeze, I don't know how much Earnie paid his guys but I doubt that it was nearly enough. The post sparring pics of those guys was frightening - their faces were really mashed. Nice warn off to prospective opponents.

theironbar
03-10-2010, 11:19 PM
Mr. Big -- did you click on the link at my post #757? Let's meet up there brother!

gregbeyer
03-11-2010, 12:38 AM
mr.big,

i was in reno for the new year and actually saw some advertising for the anniversary of that fight..... was too busy trying to hit the progressive to pay it much attention.

greg

hawk5ins
03-11-2010, 10:02 AM
was that the article that had pics of SHavers Sparring partners all bloodied with "Holmes" taped on their Headgear (whom Earnie was training for)?

If so, that was indeed a very nice piece as well.

Hawk

10-8
03-11-2010, 10:51 AM
was that the article that had pics of SHavers Sparring partners all bloodied with "Holmes" taped on their Headgear (whom Earnie was training for)?

If so, that was indeed a very nice piece as well.

HawkEarnie's name was also mis-spelled on his t-shirt as EARINE SHAVER.

PD99
03-11-2010, 06:44 PM
Hawkins - Yes, that sounds like the article I read.

I only read it the one time which goes back about 30+ yrs ago now so both you and 10-8 have the advantage on me re the finer details. Unless you have the mag in your possession, your memories are pretty good.

Yeah, the sparring partners were well and truly bloodied, mouth and nose, their t-shirts well stained with the blood also, eyes half rolled up. Basically, they looked F***ED. "EARINE" eh? By any other name, still a very scary prospect for any opponent.

.

Randy Gordon
03-14-2010, 08:52 PM
Was Manny Pacquiao that good or was Joshua Clottey that bad? I think it was a mixture of both.

You can't do anything except praise the incredible conditioning, speed, skills and movement of Pac-Man. What can you say about Clottey? That he lasted longer than Miguel Cotto or Ricky Hatton? In my mind, he absolutely punked out. He talked a tough fight. He totally avoided the media during training. All we heard from his camp was how he wanted to win this fight more than he ever wanted anything. Really? You could have fooled me. Not one time during the 12 rounds did I ever feel he was trying to win. He was there to go the distance, nothing more. I would have more respect for him if he fought with some passion and got knocked out or stopped in his efforts.

Yes, Manny Pacquiao was brilliant. But Joshua Clottey was just as brilliantly bad. I'm not looking forward to seeing him again anytime soon.

-Randy G.

hawk5ins
03-15-2010, 07:16 AM
(have not seen the bout, only seen scant clips), it sounds like Manny Clottey was a replay of Wilfredo Gomez Juan Laporte.

In that, Laporte was either too lazy or too cautious to "work" and Bazooka completely outworked him to win a clear clean decision, but the only time Laporte did throw shots, which was roughly on half a dozen occasions, they did damage or hurt Gomez.

Didn't expect Manny to hurt Clottey and did think that Joshua had enough natural pop at 147 to be able to hurt Manny if he could land with any amount of consistancy (but didn't really expect him to). So Manny did the overwhelming amount of work and carried the fight and Clottey did at great, "don't just do something, stand there" routine and when he did throw, he was able to sting Manny. Which was about a half dozen times.

Look forward to seeing the fight this coming weekend (Grrrr. Going up against NCAA tourney games. Me Not like. Big College Hoops fan.). But don't expect I'll have any real change in my opinion of either fighter. View and opinion on Manny (which is very high) was established well before this bout.

Hawk

walshb
03-15-2010, 08:02 AM
Yes, Manny Pacquiao was brilliant. But Joshua Clottey was just as brilliantly bad. I'm not looking forward to seeing him again anytime soon.

-Randy G.
Randy, here's the thing, or my thing, had Clottey opened up more, I think he would have got knocked out. Manny was that far ahead in every area. When Clottey opened up and started pressing, it was Manny who shut him back down with such superior firepower.

If I could envision a Mosley in there and trying his ass off, I think he'd be KO'd. Open up and you are open, and the way Manny has progressed, this could be lethal. Also, his range is incredible for such a small man. He has power in close and from distance.

Clottey was never the busiest of men, but had he been the other night I don't think he sees
past four or five rds, tough and chinny as he is.

walshb
03-15-2010, 10:34 AM
Randy/guys, any tips for the Maidana-Cayo fight at the end of the month?

doomeddisciple
03-18-2010, 01:41 AM
G'day Randy, hope all is well.

A question has been building in my mind and I can't think of a better person to answer it than yourself with your former Commissioner's hat on:

With the recent drug testing issues being the hot topic around the sport, when issues like this come up - Is there any forum for the various US state athletic commissions to get together and approach these kinds of issues in a unilateral way?

I figure there must be at least SOME kind of annual or periodical meeting between the various commissions to talk about issues that affect the sport across the country - Am I wrong?

GorDoom
03-19-2010, 02:00 PM
Cuz:

Do you remember a NYC judge named Jack Gordon? He did lots of fights at MSG & St. Nicks between 1945 & 75. His granddaughter is trying to get some biographical info on him. She know pretty much nothing about his life other than he was a boxing judge.

She told me she's been trying to find out about him all her life which is kinda poignant. Anyways, any info you might have on him would e appreciated,

regards,

Yer Cuz

hawk5ins
04-09-2010, 04:16 PM
I stumbled accross an old copy of the RIng Record book that I had to pick up for myself. It is the 1982 edition back when Bert, Yourself and Herb were running the Mag (the glory years as I like to refer to it.).

I already own the last copy every put out, the 86-87 edition that Mr. Goldman put out. Have had it ever since it hit the stores back in 87'. And with so many years not having the Internet, you can imagine how much good use it got.

WHen I say this edition, which was older, but in near perfect condition and at a $10.00 price tag, I had to scoop 'er up.

YES, Box rec can give me everything and more and is more convenient, but there is still so much of me that is old school, that I love having a PHYSICAL Record book is just as, if not more satisfying.

What made the book even more special was looking at the Contributers page and seeing so many familiar names. This book was put together 28 years ago and seeing names that will always be associated with the game gives it that Stamp of Approval.

But seeing that many of those names POST REGULARLY on CBZ, makes it even more special.

Some, like Hank Kaplan, have passed away, but were so integral with this sites creation and reputation.

And of course Randy, there you sat, just below the "Hat's" name.

But also, Henry Hascup, Chuck Hasson among others......I really makes a book such as this a bit more, I dunno personal, as there is interaction (albeit on a cyber level) with guys who had a hand in putting together these invaluable record books, that for those who did NOT rely on the internet to get their historical info on the sport, it's awesome to see that connection.

BTW, the cover of this book, with the inumerable headshots of so many past and then present fighter....That was the best.

Great Job Randy and to everyone else here who contributed on this book......albeit 28 years later.

Hawk

Randy Gordon
04-09-2010, 09:33 PM
HAWK: Thanks for remembering. See these grey hairs on my head? Many of them came from doing work on the Record Book. Bert, Herb & I worked on that monstrosity for 365 days straight, and then started work on the next one. It never ended. There was no internet and we did have have computers. We used something called a typewriter. And White Out. And we really did Cut & Paste. Geez, what a freakin' headache. Nobody has any idea.

Except Bert Sugar & Herb Goldman.

And I'd do it all again!

Again, thanks for remembering.

-Randy G.

Randy Gordon
04-27-2010, 08:33 AM
What happened? Boxing had a weekend of fights & there were no horrendous decisions or bad calls by incompetent referees. Tomas Adamek-Cris Arreola. Alfredo Lucero-Joel Julio. Mikkel Kessler-Carl Froch. Three major fights & nothing happened except some great boxing action. No controversies whatsoever! No fighters, managers, promoters, referees, judges or commissions to bash? Huh?

What is happening to our beloved sport?

Enjoy it!

-Randy G.

Randy Gordon
04-28-2010, 06:47 AM
This Friday's SiriusXM's "Friday Night at the Fights" will have as guests promoter Lou DiBella, boxer Peter Manfredo & HBO's Harold Lederman. The show is on from 7-9 pm (ET) on Sirius 126 & XM 243.

-Randy G.

Ron Lipton
05-17-2010, 06:46 PM
Randy,
I posted this comment on the Ortiz v Cambell fight about a mandatory 8 count being given after the fighter regained his feet and after the bell had rung. After the tenuous knockdown call, Earl Brown starts counting, Nate gets up after the bell rang in mid count, and instead of sending him back to his corner, Brown makes him stand there and finishes a mandatory 8 count.
Your feelings?
____________________________


"As usual the commentators miss everything about refereeing, they never learn, don't care and cannot see past the halo effect of officials they know or like.
It was quid pro quo with NJ last night which is fine. First referee Earl Brown called it a knockdown, I respectfully disagree that it was not a decisive knockdown.

That being said, the bell rang when the fighter got up and he makes him stand there to finish a mandatory 8 count RATHER THAN, let him go directly to his corner. This was not commented on by anyone at ringside, WHY?

I have no idea, can never figure out what they miss on refereeing and will never know. Ask Randy Gordon if you don't believe me, when a fighter gets up while the bell rang ending the round, send him back to his corner, don't make him stand there IF he is not wobbling and finish the mandatory 8 count.
Total amateur mistake in a main even on HBO with not one comment on it."

Petey
05-18-2010, 03:51 AM
Ron,

I think the fault here starts with the timekeeper, who shouldn't ring the bell while a count is in progress unless the ref suspends the count to call the fight or wave-off the knockdown. If the timer was doing his job, hopefully the ref heard the 10 second warning and was cognizant one way or the other that the round was almost over - something for him to maybe consider while evaluating the boxer during the mandatory 8 count. Not sure about various commission rules mind you, but usually the bell shouldn't be sounded and the rest interval started until immediately after the ref finishes his count...Plus that gives the ref more power than the clock ;)

Ron Lipton
05-18-2010, 05:20 PM
Ron,

I think the fault here starts with the timekeeper, who shouldn't ring the bell while a count is in progress unless the ref suspends the count to call the fight or wave-off the knockdown. If the timer was doing his job, hopefully the ref heard the 10 second warning and was cognizant one way or the other that the round was almost over - something for him to maybe consider while evaluating the boxer during the mandatory 8 count. Not sure about various commission rules mind you, but usually the bell shouldn't be sounded and the rest interval started until immediately after the ref finishes his count...Plus that gives the ref more power than the clock ;)


R. Just responding here to this quickly if I may. The time keeper cannot do that nor should he do that. A boxer is on the deck, the referee is counting, the bells rings, thats it, no more no less. If the boxer stays down he or she is counted O.U.T.

If they get up and wobble or stumble or worse they ref can stop the fight.
The fighter gets up before 8 and the bell rang at 4, send them right back to the corner to be administered to, do not keep them standing there to finish a mandatory 8 count.

A round can be extended for 30 seconds during the rest period for a doctor to do his or her work IF need be.

No timekeeper can take it upon themselves to not ring the bell when 3 minutes are up unless the referee directs them to stop the clock.

I will wait to hear what Randy says.

best,
Ron

Petey
05-18-2010, 09:11 PM
Yeah, I'd like to hear from Randy on this one too Ron...I know Amateur Rules dictate that the bell isn't sounded until after the ref finishes his count, but darned if I can find any published pro ruling on this. (ABC's published rules don't go into much detail here either...sigh). Seeking more working knowledge here man...

Randy Gordon
05-18-2010, 09:13 PM
[QUOTE=Ron Lipton]R. Just responding here to this quickly if I may. The time keeper cannot do that nor should he do that. A boxer is on the deck, the referee is counting, the bells rings, thats it, no more no less. If the boxer stays down he or she is counted O.U.T.

If they get up and wobble or stumble or worse they ref can stop the fight.
The fighter gets up before 8 and the bell rang at 4, send them right back to the corner to be administered to, do not keep them standing there to finish a mandatory 8 count.

A round can be extended for 30 seconds during the rest period for a doctor to do his or her work IF need be.

No timekeeper can take it upon themselves to not ring the bell when 3 minutes are up unless the referee directs them to stop the clock.

I will wait to hear what Randy says.

best,
Ron[/QUOTThenE]

Ron, you are 1000% right on this. First off, a timekeeper CANNOT withhold ringing the bell at the 3:00 mark. When the round's over, it's over. Let's say the clock is ticking away. There are five seconds to go in the round...four...three. With three seconds to go, a fighter gets clipped with a punch and goes down. The clock continues. The ref points the standing fighter to a neutral corner. Then he picks up the count from the person counting for the knockdown. Let's say the count is "TWO." When the count hits "THREE" the round will end. Bell! The count continues past the bell. "FOUR." At "FOUR," the downed fighter gets up. At this point, the ref can stop counting. There is NO NEED for a mandatory eight-count. The round is OVER. The fighters return to their respective corners. Now, if the downed fighter should be wobbly--and this is the ref's call--and looking in bad shape, the ref can wave the fight over. However, chances are he'll give the fighter a chance to recover during the rest period, and allow him to return to the corner. During the minute rest, the ref will keep a close watch on him.

And, Ron, I do agree with you that most commentators do not know the rules of our game. In the case of Ortiz-Campbell on HBO, I don't remember if Harold Lederman chimed in (Gotta check my DVR of that fight). I would be surprised if they didn't defer to him, as I can flat out tell you that Lederman probably knows every rule there is.

But, the knockdown right before the bell which carries into the rest period is a good question. Ask many of your boxing buddies. I'll bet you get lots of different opinions.

Being the student of boxing you always have been, Ron, you are right on target.

-Randy G.

Ron Lipton
05-18-2010, 09:59 PM
[QUOTE=Ron Lipton]R. Just responding here to this quickly if I may. The time keeper cannot do that nor should he do that. A boxer is on the deck, the referee is counting, the bells rings, thats it, no more no less. If the boxer stays down he or she is counted O.U.T.

If they get up and wobble or stumble or worse they ref can stop the fight.
The fighter gets up before 8 and the bell rang at 4, send them right back to the corner to be administered to, do not keep them standing there to finish a mandatory 8 count.

A round can be extended for 30 seconds during the rest period for a doctor to do his or her work IF need be.

No timekeeper can take it upon themselves to not ring the bell when 3 minutes are up unless the referee directs them to stop the clock.

I will wait to hear what Randy says.

best,
Ron[/QUOTThenE]

Ron, you are 1000% right on this. First off, a timekeeper CANNOT withhold ringing the bell at the 3:00 mark. When the round's over, it's over. Let's say the clock is ticking away. There are five seconds to go in the round...four...three. With three seconds to go, a fighter gets clipped with a punch and goes down. The clock continues. The ref points the standing fighter to a neutral corner. Then he picks up the count from the person counting for the knockdown. Let's say the count is "TWO." When the count hits "THREE" the round will end. Bell! The count continues past the bell. "FOUR." At "FOUR," the downed fighter gets up. At this point, the ref can stop counting. There is NO NEED for a mandatory eight-count. The round is OVER. The fighters return to their respective corners. Now, if the downed fighter should be wobbly--and this is the ref's call--and looking in bad shape, the ref can wave the fight over. However, chances are he'll give the fighter a chance to recover during the rest period, and allow him to return to the corner. During the minute rest, the ref will keep a close watch on him.

And, Ron, I do agree with you that most commentators do not know the rules of our game. In the case of Ortiz-Campbell on HBO, I don't remember if Harold Lederman chimed in (Gotta check my DVR of that fight). I would be surprised if they didn't defer to him, as I can flat out tell you that Lederman probably knows every rule there is.

But, the knockdown right before the bell which carries into the rest period is a good question. Ask many of your boxing buddies. I'll bet you get lots of different opinions.

Being the student of boxing you always have been, Ron, you are right on target.

-Randy G.


R. Thanks, and thats because as a referee I was trained by the BEST, you.

GPater11093
05-22-2010, 07:43 AM
EDIT: Always seem to get this mixed up with the Ron Lipton thread.

Randy Gordon
05-23-2010, 10:25 AM
Ron. Randy. Two boxing lifers.
I totally understand.
-Randy G.

doomeddisciple
05-26-2010, 10:52 PM
Mr Gordon,

With the recent drug testing issues being the hot topic around the sport, when issues like this come up - Is there any forum for the various US state athletic commissions to get together and approach these kinds of issues in a unilateral way?

I figure there must be at least SOME kind of annual or periodical meeting between the various commissions to talk about issues that affect the sport across the country - Is there?

Kind regards

Josh

Randy Gordon
05-31-2010, 07:33 AM
Doomed: Good question. While you're watching a boxing match televised on HBO, you always get to hear "unoffical Scorer" Harold Lederman say, "This bout is being fought under the unified rules of the Association of Boxing Commissions." The Association of Boxing Commissions (ABC) was formed backed in the late 1980's, with Ken Gray, the California Commissioner, as its first president. A year later, Nevada's Duane Ford became it's next president, and yours truly was it's third president. Back then, none of the commissions worked with each other. A suspended fighter in New York could easily go fight in some other state. One of the first things we did was begin to recognize each other's suspensions. A fighter suspended--either medically or administratively --by one state commission was as good as suspended everywhere else.

The rule over medical exams and testing is a tricky one. You see, every state commission has a budget. In New York, we had a huge budget, especially for medical exams for fighters. We (the NYSAC) paid for opthalomological (eye) exams, EEG's, CT Scans (brain tests) & sometimes even MRI's of the brain. We had hand specialists, brain specialists and plastic surgeons aboard. No commission checked fighters--both pre AND post fight--the way New York did. However, other state commissions didn't have a budget as large as ours. Their medical exams consisted of a doctor coming in, placing a stethoscope on a fighter's chest, asking him or her if they felt all right, then allowing them to fight if everything seemed fine.

The same goes for drug testing. It costs money to test a fighter for drugs. A big-budgeted commission would mean a state could do more testing. A commission with no or little money could do no or little testing. So, if a promoter put a fight, say, in West Virginia, where the commission had little money, fighters would only have to abide by the rules of that state. No money, no testing. If that same fight was put in a place like New York or Nevada, the medical testing would be adundant.

The PBF-Pac fight is a bit different. PBF is insisting on Olympic-style urine and blood testing. That's random testing right up until the fight. Pac-Man is balking at that, saying he will do the testing until about 14 days out, then again immediately after the fight. PBF is insisting on random testing right up to the fight. The fact is, the fighter only has to abide by whatever the local commission insists on.

So, even with the ABC doing a great job unifying the rules, they cannot spread money around, upping the medical budgets of states which have next-to-nothing.

The Steroid Era has been in all sports for some time. Hopefully, our sport will continue to do its best to make sure the playing field is level for everyone who steps in the ring.

-Randy G.

hawk5ins
05-31-2010, 09:03 AM
Happy Memorial Day!

I just got finished perusing through an old article of yours from the relauch issue of Boxing Illustrated that Bert started back up in January of 1988.

You did a piece on the 10 Most BORING fighters of the day.

In it were some of the usual suspects like Camacho, Milt McCrory, Herol Graham, Juan Laporte and Micheal Nunn.

You had some wonderful one liners in that piece, poking fun of these practioners of minimalist boxing.

When fighting Lupe Suarez, you described Laporte fighting at "a 100 rounds pace in which he acted as though he could give away the first 49 rounds."

Back then there were only a handful of fighters who fought to conserve energy and only exert what the had to to win.

TODAY, unfortunately, such application of this sleep inducing style almost seems the standard instead of the exception.

I shudder to think the # you would use if you were penning an article today.

I doubt limiting it to 10, would be possible.

WIth today's supposedly modern and "superior" training techniques, one would think a modern fighter would have limitless energy. But seeing a fighter throw a multipunch combination ONCE in a round, seems like an aberration.

Yes, there ARE "excpetions", IE Pacquiao. But fighters who look as though they are actually EXERTING energy in a bout....well, maybe THAT could be your Modern article.

"The 10 LEAST Boring Fighters Today"

It may be more challenging though to find 10!

Hawk

doomeddisciple
06-04-2010, 04:21 AM
Randy,

Thank you very much for you answer.

Mayweather is taking a naive moral high ground in my view as evidenced in the recent fight with Mosley being touted as "clean" when Dr Margaret Goodmans comments on boxing scene pointed out several glaring inadequecies in the testing (http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=28089)

From my own far less qualified point of view, I fail to see how any labelling of a fight with "olympic style testing" can be thrown around with any degree of integrity unless boxers were randomly tested 365 days a year, of course that is utterly impossible and would come at an enormous cost.

In your view, would you envisage any kind of response from the ABC in regard to drug testing in the pros?

Thank you so much for your thoughts,
Josh

Randy Gordon
06-16-2010, 09:23 AM
Josh: I have spoken at length to many members of the Association of Boxing Commissions, and they all agree that to randomly test all boxers 365 days a year is a cost far too prohibitive for any promoter or state commission to undertake. As of now, all the sport of boxing can do to test its participants is to follow the guidelines of the state in which said boxer is scheduled to compete. Unfortunately, some states require very little testing.

I do believe the PBF v Pac -Man fight WILL happen. When it does, I also believe it'll happen in Nevada. Of course, when and if it does happen, it'll only be because all of the issues between the two parties have been resolved. Among them is money (will there be parity?) and drug testing. PBF can insist all he wants on having Olympic-style testing, but he is not the Mayweather State Athletic Commission. Wherever the fight is held, it will be under the rules and regulations of that state, not of the rules and regulations of the Mayweather State Athletic Commission.

Would I like to see all fighters tested for drugs and PEDs on a regular basis? Sure. But, is that realistic? Will it actually happen? No!

So, on we go. As far as PBF v Pac-Man, they will just have to work it out. For the good of boxing, let's hope they can.

-Randy G.

Randy Gordon
06-29-2010, 08:12 PM
I just feel like talking boxing a little, so who better to talk to than you guys...
Will somebody send me a Russian dictionary. With the way the heavyweight division is filling up with Russians, we're gonna' need to start speaking the language...Don't know about you, but I am enjoying the Super Six tourney. I would love to see it take place in other divisions, as well...WTF is the "Silver Belt" that the WBC is pushing? It's another sanctioning fee to bring in more dinero to the WBC President-For-Life. The WBC has "junior" titles & "interim" crowns & now the "Silver" belt. Geez! There are more champions out there than there are legit contenders!...Hey, get this. I applied for membership in the Boxing Writer's Association of America, of which I used to be a member, during my days as Editor-in-Chief of The Ring & during my announcing days at ESPN, the USA Network & the MSG Network. I spoke to the BWAA's President, Jack Hirsch. This is the same Jack Hirsch who, when I was head of the NYS Athletic Commission, wrote something which he had published in the British Boxing News that was so made up, something so incorrect, that he was going to be fired until I talked his boss out of dismissing Jack "The Weasel" Hirsch. What he wrote was about me allowing a fighter to compete in New York. Hirsch said the fighter had flunked his medicals but I had overlooked that and had him passed. The truth was, the guy passed EVERY medical exam given to him, which was EVERY one required by the NYSAC. Hirsch said he "had heard" the guy flunked the tests, so he wrote it. Some journalist! Anyway, "The Weasel" told me to speak to Tom "Mr. Righteous" Hauser. I did, I was turned down. Hauser said, "You are not a boxing writer. You are a boxing announcer," in reference to my boxing show on SiriusXM Radio. You've got to be kidding, Tom! You have publicists in the BWAA (see Fred Sternburg). I have written more boxing than you and Jack Hirsch put together. And yet, I'm "not a boxing writer." Tom...Jack...you two self-righteous twits. If I'm not a boxing writer, for certain neither one of you are. It's no wonder many of today's top boxing writers are not in/refuse to join the BWAA...Hey, as long as 40'ish heavies Hasim Rahman & Shannon Briggs are still fighting, they should fight each other!...New Zealand's heavyweight David Tua will be in action on July 17. He'll be on my show this Friday night. I'd love to see him get one more big fight...Speaking of heavies, do both of the Klitschko Brothers deserve to be in the Top 10 Pound-for-Pound List? I believe they do...I am believing more and more that the PBF-Pac-Man fight is gonna' happen. Some quiet negotiations (that means out of and away from the working media) are taking place between the Team PBF & Team Pac-Man. They want this to happen. There's too much $$$$$$$$$$ to be made--for all parties--for this not to happen.
-Randy G.

Ron Lipton
06-29-2010, 11:23 PM
In all honesty and by any standard in the known Galaxy and beyond, Randy Gordon and Ron Lipton who were both voting members of the BWAA and expert boxing historians with a REAL credential in professional boxing are not allowed into the BWAA now with the "New" rules based on territoriality... When I think of SOME the actual fellows allowed to vote boxers into the IBHOF now, and not Randy and me who used to do it, well, words are not enough.

When I managed Snoops boxing gym as its Chief Trainer and Manager a young boy who worked at Wendy's came into the gym. His name is Ryan Sonaglia. He wanted to be a boxing writer someday and used to train a little in the gym. He is now a BWAA member after submitting articles to Seconds Out etc. I applaud his efforts and he is a nice kid. Yet Tom Hauser and Jack Hirsch give Randy and me the brush off.

Think about it, just think about our backgrounds in pro boxing and their decision along with their colleagues. Is something wrong with this picture.

On HBO when they do a show and ask for boxing background opinions, I have listened to Tom speak and to Jack for years as boxing experts.
I congratulate them both on their pro boxing expertise.

I remember once what Bert Sugar said to me about this, but I cannot print it.

I believe the IBHOF should do something about this as to men like Randy and me being able to vote inductees into the hall as we used to do as boxing historians. I know Tom tried to run for Chairman of the NYSAC with Mercante Sr as his partner and my background with them trying to take assignments from me is written in stone.

I respect Tom writing many books and articles starting with Black Lights, but guess what, Randy and I were into pro boxing before any of them came along.

Me in the ring and a writer and him as NYSAC chairman and editor of the Ring.

I have never seen anything like this. Hirsch who used to write nice things about me as a referee gives everyone the total brush off now and puts them on to Hauser who along with a few friends knocks the prospective memberships down along with 6 guys total. Hirsch the "President" does nothing.

I always immensely enjoy listening to Tom and Jack live on their perspective on fights involving strong, muscular athletic men, sweating in action. Their expert opinion is fraught with such great experience, I always learn something. I enjoy their speech patterns and delivery too. Very manly and boxing rich. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I like Seinfeld episodes too.

Jack's recent brush off of membership attempts is a bit bizarre. Hauser with a private agenda is understandable from past encounters. Jack's Jackie Mason accent delivery is colorful and Tom's San Francisco meets Fire Island delivery is rich too as to boxing lore and history. I respect them both tremendously.

Randy Gordon
06-30-2010, 10:55 PM
Well, Ron, I tried to one-up you on that last post, which I thoroughly enjoyed, but there is no way I can outdo that one. Wow!

Hey, Ron & I aren't the only guys turned away by the Tom & Jackie Show. A few of the top writers/journalists in boxing either have dropped out or refuse to be a part of their show.

Know what? Who needs 'em? I certainly don't. Ron certainly doesn't. I'll have my fun ripping them new bottoms on my SiriusXM show. They'll deserve any and all the bashing I give them. But, believe me, I will not spend more than a minute or two on any show talking about them. I'd rather talk about past fights, upcoming fights, past champions, present champions and future champions, contenders & New Faces.

I'll re-apply for membership when the Tom & Jackie Show fades to black. Which, if you listen to many current BWAA members, may not be very far off.

-Randy G.

hawk5ins
07-01-2010, 08:05 AM
A Few years back, there was a fantastic article in RIng Magazine by Jeff Ryan who has written for either the RIng, KO, World Boxing and other sports magazines since 1984 or 1985.

His piece was about his applying for and being denied, membership into the BWAA.

His experiences were very similar to what is being described here. Including being told he needed to submit "writing samples" for review.

Gee Tom, maybe open up any number of the above referenced magazines that Ryan had written in for the better part of 20 plus years and you might find one.

Ryan in the article, didn't actually WANT to become a member and stated he did it as a lark. He stated he always felt the BWAA was always too pretentious and arrogant, but he had heard the "closed door policy" that Hauser had established and he wanted to see for himself if it was as bad as he had heard.

In his article, Ryan clearly explains, he was NOT dissappointed!

Sounds like the BWAA equal opportunity snobs to those they look down their nose at!

(If I can locate Ryan's piece, I will reprint some of it here.)

Hawk

Surf-Bat
07-01-2010, 01:15 PM
Jeff Ryan used to SLAY me whenever he would lay into the fat heavyweights of the pre-Tyson era. Greg Page, James Broad and Tony Tubbs were his favorite targets. I literally used to laugh at loud at his little quips.

I remember him once claiming that since a certain potentially good fight had been cancelled we would all have to be content to be "hypnotized by Tony Tubb's jiggling breasts once again".

The man was merciless!

hawk5ins
07-01-2010, 01:33 PM
quite often. And at times, I thought he took the opposing view of Steve Farhood simply to be "the other side of the coin" type of guy.

But he also wrote quite a bit that I did enjoy. ANd I do respect his writing AND boxing acumen.

ANd CERTAINLY he merited being a BWAA member.

But for some reason this has become Hausers PERSONAL country club and only HE will allow membership.

Hauser TOO is a talented writer and I do think he knows the game very well as well. But his arrogance and sense of self importance has become virtually suffocating.

Hawk

Randy Gordon
07-01-2010, 06:49 PM
Just like Jeff Ryan, it really makes not a particle of difference to me about being denied entry as a cast member of the "Tom & Jackie Show." Hey, who needs them? I have you guys right here, and this is a much better place than their prejudiced little club.

I am excited about the inside news that PBF v Pac-Man is looking like it's gonna' happen in mid-November. I care not about how much money they get...I can not about when they get drug tested & how often...I care not about who gets into the ring first. Just get them into the ring together and ring the bell!

But is it okay if I write about it? I mean, I'm not a certified, H&H-approved (Hauser & Hirsch) boxing writer. Can they sue me? Can they have me banned from the CBZ? Can they get me thrown off SiriusXM? Can they take my next-born grandchild?

Oh, the power of the BWAA!

Gonna' get out of here & read some great boxing writer by some REAL boxing writers--ALL OF YOU!

-Randy G.

hawk5ins
07-01-2010, 09:20 PM
I found the piece I was referring to.

Enjoy.

May 2008 Ring Magazine

Jeff Ryan, Ryan Out Loud

"Allow me to Introduce Myself"

In October your fearless columnist will celebrate his 25th anniversary as a boxing journalist.

The upcoming anniversary gets mention this month not because I’m sucking around for a card and a present (movie theater gift cards are nice, by the way.), but because I was under the impressison that I’d made somewhat of a name for myself in this industry while writing about everyone from Larry Holmes to Manny Pacquiao and every shootout from Hagler Hearns to Mayweather Hatton. Well I’ve been disabused of that impression. Despite those 25 years (18 of them spent as a columnist for this magazine), my profile is apparently as diminished as Michael Jackson’s after his 29th nose job, diminished at least in the eyes of the Boxing Writers Association of America.

If there is one thing I’ve cherished throughout my career, and one word that best describes my attitude as a journalist, it’s independence. There are a couple reasons for this. First, Writing is a very solitary pursuit.

Second, I’ve never liked the idea of being part of a group, particularly when it came to digging out the details as a reporter or expressing my views as a scribe. I don’t want my opinions shaped, even subconsciously, by the thoughts of others. I’ve never shared quotes, revealed the secrets of my craft to fellow writers while tipping a few or discussed story ideas with anyone but my editors. Nor do I participate in those telephone calls for fear that some clown from a daily paper will steal the quote I elicited from the interview subject, then run it before it can appear in my monthly magazine. I hate cliques and old boy networks, so it figures that I haven’t been a member of the BWAA since sometime around 1984.

Recently, though I decided to rejoin the organization in order to have a vote for the IBHOF. I’ve told you why a Barry McGuigan doesn’t belong in Canastota, but I never had a role in the selection process, and felt that my participation was long overdue. So I sent an email to Tom Hauser, the BWAA Vice President in charge of membership, figuring he’d mail me some paperwork and instructions on how to pay my membership dues.

Instead, I received a condescending e-mail, one informing me that I’d have to be reviewed by a six member committee, answer a s series of questions to the jury’s satisfaction, and mail six samples of work that I’m “proud of having written” to Doogie Hauser himself so that, apparently, he could judge their worthiness. As though I was som blogger three days out of college.

I wish I was making this up. The Questions were real pips. Since I would waste the electricity to log in and email Doogie back, I’ll answer his questions in print:

Q: How Long have you been writing about Boxing?
A: Uh, a quarter of a century.
Q: For Whom do you write about boxing?
A: The Ring. You may have heard of it Tom. It’s even nicknamed the “Bible of Boxing:. My fight writing has also appeared in Sports Illustrated, The Village Voice, Sport, Inside Sports, Newsday, Real Edge and others.
Q: Approximately how many byline articles have you written about boxing?
A: Hard to say. My guess is over 500. As for “Ryan Out Loud” columns, my calculation is about 215, give or take a few.
Q: How often, if at all, do you cover fights live a ringside?
A: As often as my schedule and logistics allow.
Q: Have you written any books about Boxing?
A: No.
Q: Have any of your fight related expenses been subsidized by a promoter, sanctioning body, manager or other member of the boxing community?
A: Yeah, Don King paid for my two months of R & R In Tahiti last year. That a joke Tom. The answer is no.
Q: Are there any current BWAA Members who you can list as a reference?
A: Probably a couple dozen.
Q: What is your day Job?
A: Three days a week I work as a Mime for tips. The other four I dangle from the cables of the Brooklyn Bridge while testing the wind speed for Channel 11 Weatherman. (Another Joke, Tom. My day job is professional Sportswriter.)

I share this with all of you so you can see what goes on behind the scenes in our business. Politics, egomania, and clueless boobs in positions of power are not limited to the alphabets and the television networks. Ironically, this overzealous vetting of a veteran journalist with a solid reputation is carried out by an organization that proudly boasts as one of its members, Ron Borges, a guy who was charged with PLAGARISM, by the Boston Glove. While I’m sure the BWAA has a process for accepting new members, a little common sense is in order. You want to see articles I’m proud of having written? Pick up any issue of this magazine from the past 18 years. If I wasn’t proud of something, it would have never been filed.

Shame on me for going agiasnt my better judgement and courting these guys. I should have reminded myself of my last attempt to seriously confer with the BWAA. It was back when I has just become a member and was still new to the business. I approached a group of veteran writers at a press conference to introduce myself. Holding court was BWAA President Barney Nagler, a dinosaur with a reputation as a giant in the field. Nagler shot me a death stare for having the nerve to approach his all star team, looked me up and down and made a show of peering at my credentials to see who the heck I was. Maybe the old man realized his skills had slipped by this point and rather than welcome a new kid to the profession, he rather resent him. Who Knows? Nagler, by the way, is a member of the IBHOF. Apparently the building doesn’t have a Nice Guy Wing.

My knees are a little sore these days and genuflecting is something I reserve for the church pew. So goal keeper Hauser and the BWAA wont get any smoke blown up their asses by me. Preserve the sanctity of your fraternity, gentlemen. Keep it safe for the bloggers, the drunks and the plagarists. If I can manage to make a name for myself in this industry over the next 25 years, maybe I’ll be worthy of your consideration.

(Slightly edited by me for space and well, laziness.)

Hawk

Surf-Bat
07-01-2010, 09:30 PM
“A Writer, like a boxer, must stand alone,” -- A.J. Liebling

Surf-Bat
07-01-2010, 09:31 PM
(OK, so I switched the order in apropos of this discussion. Sue me on earth and let AJ beat me up in heaven)

Ron Lipton
07-01-2010, 10:49 PM
quite often. And at times, I thought he took the opposing view of Steve Farhood simply to be "the other side of the coin" type of guy.

But he also wrote quite a bit that I did enjoy. ANd I do respect his writing AND boxing acumen.

ANd CERTAINLY he merited being a BWAA member.

But for some reason this has become Hausers PERSONAL country club and only HE will allow membership.

R. Well put.

Hauser TOO is a talented writer and I do think he knows the game very well as well.

R. He knows the politics from speaking to people, recording what THEY say, memorizing it and researching it. I would like him to stand up in front of a heavy bag and demonstrate all the punches in boxing and give advise and analyze on his own how to fight another man, how to train, what it feels like without parroting what someone ELSE has told him. In his book on Ali, it is a Citizen Kane research project, writing down what people interviewed have said.

The haughty, pompous, rude and suffocating condescending vibe is so fucking riling, it is beyond endurance to others who have paid bloody dues in boxing unlike him. A country club indeed, aptly stated Hawk.


But his arrogance and sense of self importance has become virtually suffocating.

R. I have never in all my life seen anything like it.

Hawk


The IBHOF has to find a way to let other more knowing boixng experts vote candidates into the Hall of Fame other than this ridiculous social club which has been changed from something great into something very ugly and discriminatory. Barring me, Randy Gordon, Jeff Ryan, LOL.

hawk5ins
07-02-2010, 07:17 AM
that piece.

For anyone thinking, even slightly, that maybe Ron and Randy are blowing the BWAA lament of theirs a bit out of proportion or they are letting a personal issue cloud their feelings on this, I think the piece by Jeff Ryan, COMPLETELY justifies and validates thier views on this.

Hawk

Randy Gordon
07-04-2010, 06:30 PM
Q: How Long have you been writing about Boxing?
A: I've been writing articles & covering boxing for nearly 40 years.
Q: For whom do you or did you write for about boxing?
A: I have penned boxing articles for, among others, World Boxing, International Boxing, Big Book of Boxing, Boxing Illustrated, Boxing Digest, Boxing Scene, The Village Voice and Ring Magazine. I was Editor-in-Chief of Boxing Illustrated & The Ring (one of the five men who have been The Ring's Editor-in-Chief in it's near-90-year history).
Q: Approximately how many byline articles have you written about boxing?
A: I would have to say I have written around 1,000 articles on boxing which have my byline.
Q: How often, if at all, do you cover fights live a ringside?
A: As the host of SiriusXM's "Friday Night at the Fights," I am now at no less than a half dozen shows per month.
Q: Have you written any books about Boxing?
A: I have written one children's book about boxing--"Muhammad Ali"--which was published by Grossett/Dunlap, a division of Penguin Books.
Q: Have any of your fight related expenses been subsidized by a promoter, sanctioning body, manager or other member of the boxing community?
A: Yes, on two or three occasions in the last 10 years, while doing the television announcing for fight cards out of town, the promoter paid for my lodging and food. At the time, I was self-employed and not associated with the state athletic commission or any publication.
Q: Are there any current BWAA Members who you can list as a reference?
A: Most--if not all--of them!
Q: What is your day Job?
A: I am the host of two shows on SiriusXM Radio. One is called "Fight Club," & is broadcast live every Tuesday, Thursday & Friday from 2-4 pm (ET) on Sirius channel 125 & XM 241. The show is about Mixed Martial Arts (MMA), so I know you would never listen to it or understand it, Tom. The other is a boxing show called "Friday Night at the Fights." I am also a Personal Trainer with a booming PT business. I put many of my clients through boxing workouts. They use the speed bag, heavy bag & focus pads/punch mitts, but I wouldn't expect either Tom or Jackie to have much understanding of what all that means, so let's just say I work people out & help them to get into better shape.

When the boxing book I am writing comes out, I will give personally signed copies to both Tommy & Jackie. In my acknowledgements, I may even write,
"This book is dedicated to Tom Hauser & Jack Hirsch, the two Princes of Pomposity, whose denial of me--and many other worthy boxing writers--into
their 'Boxing Writer's Club,' was an inspiration I will always thank them for."

Boxing writers like Red Smith, Nat Fleisher, Bob Waters, Barney Nagler, Sam Taub, Ted Carroll, Dan Daniel and scores of others are shaking their heads from their heavenly ringside seats as they watch what Tom Hauser & Jack Hirsch have done to the Boxing Writers Association!

-Randy G.

Surf-Bat
07-04-2010, 07:51 PM
Randy,

All kidding aside, did Hauser and co ever give you a direct answer as to why they didn't take you on? Your resume is pretty hard to dismiss or ignore

iskigoe
07-04-2010, 07:55 PM
Pomposity ---good word I will have to find a reason to use this sometime.

Randy,

I once wrote to the BWA and asked for help in getting Hype Igoe into the IBHOF. In my letter I mentioned how so many great writers of the golden age of boxing have been passed over by as Gordoom would say "by the bloody mitts of time". I also brought to their attention that some of these writers were founding fathers of the BWA and great contributors to boxing. I also wrote that it would be something for the BWA themselves to go back and recognize some of these founding fathers who lead the way for present writers.

The answer I received was --this is not what we do.
If the BWA doesn't care about the history of boxing writers then why should anyone else.

Randy I don’t know enough about it but some of those great scribes of the past are surely looking down and shaking more than their heads.

KI

Mike DeLisa
07-04-2010, 08:33 PM
Clarification to Igoe: being a member of the BWA gets you a vote in the IBHOF elections!

Randy Gordon
07-04-2010, 11:00 PM
Surf: The answer given by Tom Hauser when I asked him if I could be reinstated into the BWAA was that "You're not a boxing writer, Randy. You are a boxing announcer. This organization is for boxing WRITER'S, not boxing ANNOUNCER'S." He then told me to "send in six examples of your writing that you are proud of," and he would have them reviewed by a panel of boxing writers. Hell! I could send him 600 that I am proud of, but I wasn't going to send him one. Not ONE!

Iskigoe: For Hauser to tell you "this is not what we do" should tell you enough. Know what I'm gonna' do on every show on SiriusXM from now on? I am going to read a paragraph from one of the great boxing writers of yesteryear. I'll especially try to find something from the great Hype Igoe.

It's the least I can do to bring tribute to these amazing boxing writers of the past.

I don't need the BWAA, I just had hoped to once again become a member and continue to talk up and write about the sport we love so much. Unfortunately, Tommy & Jackie don't love it near as much as we do!

-Randy G.

iskigoe
07-05-2010, 07:22 AM
Thanks Randy. It was not Hauser to whom I wrote but it was the President at the time.

There are so many great writers yet to be inducted.

I did write to Bill Gallo and he was great. He wrote me back and was very helpful. As I am sure many BWA writers would be. But I still think they should try to do something for their own history.

KI

iskigoe
07-05-2010, 11:45 AM
So goes the history of the BWA.

By a vote of the officers and board of directors, the Boxing Writers Association of America has changed the names on five of its yearly awards. The new names will be as follows:
Edward J. Neil's name on the "Fighter of the Year" award has been replaced with that of Sugar Ray Robinson.

Al Buck's name on the "Manager of the Year" award has been replaced with that of Cus D'Amato.

James J. Walker's name on the "Long and Meritorious Service" award has been replaced with that of John F. X. Condon.
Eddie Futch's name will now be the only one on the "Trainer of the Year" award. Condon's name will no longer be on that award with him.

Harry Markson's name on the "Fight of the Year" award has been replaced with that of both Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier.

The officers and board of directors voted against changing the name on the James J. Farley award for "Honesty and Integrity" in Boxing.

All our other awards will retain their names. They are as follows:

The Nat Fleischer award for "Excellence in Boxing Journalism."

The Bill Crawford award for "Courage in Overcoming Adversity."

The Sam Taub award for "Excellence in Broadcast Journalism."

The A.J. Liebling award for "Outstanding Boxing Journalism."

The Marvin Kohn "Good Guy award."

The BWAA extends its gratitude to Steve Farhood, who played an integral role in this process as chairman of the committee who recommended the above.

Randy Gordon
07-05-2010, 10:26 PM
How many of you boxing fans knew Cus D'Amato & Marvin Kohn? I don't mean how many heard of them. I mean, knew them.

Cus D'Amato was as nutty as a fruitcake! He used to come up to my office at The Ring to visit with Bert Sugar and myself whenever he came down to NYC to visit the two men who financially supported him--Jim Jacobs and Bill Cayton. His stories were interesting and always sprinkled with conspiracy.

"They're trying to keep me from training the heavyweight champion again," D'Amato told us.

"Who's they?" I asked Cus.

"You know who 'they' is!" he'd say. "But I won't give into them. I will never back down. There's nothing they can do to me. They call my home in Catskill and hang up. They fire shots in the air at night. But I'm not scared. Soon, I'll tell you the whole story and you can print it in The Ring. But you might be too scared to print my whole story, and I won't blame you. These people scare everybody. But they don't scare me."

And D'Amato would go on, and on, and on...

A morning visit from D'Amato would turn into an all-day stay, with one crazy story after another. When I mentioned D'Amato's looniness to Jim Jacobs one morning at breakfast, Jacobs laughed and said, "Ah, he's old. He likes to tell stories. Just go along with him." And so we did. Some of his rantings I've put into a chapter in my book.

Another chapter which'll be in my book is called "The Set-Up." It's about the guy the BWAA's "Good Guy Award" is named after--Marvin Kohn. He was anything but a good guy. A weasel? Yes. A liar? Yes? A creep? Yes. A blackmailer? Yes. A squealer, a stool pigeon and a canary? Yes. But a good guy? Not in my book. "The Set-Up" is the story of how I rid the NYSAC of a huge leak in our press office. I, along with my Executive Director, Rich Hering, knew "Mr. Good Guy" was always supplying local journalists with tidbits and inside information of the daily goings on at the NYSAC. We realized this, and made up a story of a lunch appointment we said I had around the corner with promoter Don King. That night, several prominent boxing writers called me up to ask me how my meeting with King went. Each said they had a friend who was eating in the restaurant and saw me with King. The only problem is, I was having lunch with a childhood friend, Ira. We told Marvin I was having lunch with King to see how long it would take him to pick up the phone and inform the media. It took him seconds after I was on the elevator. That night, I was called by the writers, asking me how my lunch went. The next morning I fired Kohn.

Cus D'Amato & Marvin Kohn. They were indeed two colorful characters. But to have awards named after them? Especially the "Good Guy Award." But then, again, I guess Kohn was a Good Guy. All the writers he called giving them inside information thought he was a Good Guy!

-Randy G.

GPater11093
07-08-2010, 05:58 PM
Mr Gordon,

Me and my brother were talking and wondered what would happen in a round where a fighter was either dropped or had points off that made his total go below 0.

For example if fighter B was dropped 8 times and had a 2 point deduction. Would the round be 10-minus 1 for Fighter A?

I know this is near impossible in practise, but how about in theory? what happens?

Randy Gordon
07-09-2010, 12:12 PM
GPater11093: I found your question about deduction of points to be a bit confusing.

You asked, "For example if fighter B was dropped 8 times and had a 2 point deduction. Would the round be 10-minus 1 for Fighter A?"

Huh? Am I missing something? Did you mean fighter B was dropped eight times in ONE ROUND? Eight times in the fight? If he was dropped eight times in the round in a jurisdiction which did not have the three knockdown rule, the referee should be dropped by the commission!

Most states score on a 10-point MUST system. The winner of a round gets 10 points. The loser gets nine or less. In the case of a knockdown, the fight who was dropped will generally lose the round 10-8. If he was dropped twice, he will generally lose it 10-7. I have seen cases where a guy was dropped twice and also took tremendous punishment throughout the round as well and lost the round 10-6. THAT is a totally one-sided round. I cannot ever recall seeing a 10-5 round.

If the scoring system was a one-point system, with the winner getting one point and the loser zero (0), a close round would be scored 1-0. A more decisive round would be scored 2-0. A one-sided round would be 3-0. However, let's say, in a close round, the fighter who lost the round also had a point deducted for low blows. Instead of making him drop below zero for the round, the deducted point would be added to his opponent's scorecard, giving the opponent a 2-0 edge in the round instead of 1-0.

In the end, a fighter cannot be given less than zero points. In any scoring system, it really all works out the same.

All that's needed is three honest, competent judges.

Now, that may be a combo that's hard to find!

-Randy G.

GPater11093
07-09-2010, 12:31 PM
Mr Gordon,

It was purely hypothetical. Surely the fight would be stopped. I was basically asking if a fighter was dropped or had points deducted enough for him to drop below zero. So if he was dropped 10 times in a round.

Thats a 10-9 round - the 10 KDs so a 10- minus 1 round.

But zero is the lowest that a score can hypothetically be given?

I agree it would never happen though.

Randy Gordon
07-09-2010, 04:53 PM
Yes, hypothetically, a fighter can win a round by a 10-0 score. But that's like saying, if a baseball team came to bat and kept reaching base without making an out, at what point would the umpires call the game? When the score was 20-0? 30-0? 200-0? Or when the losing team had completely run out of somebody to pitch? I suppose, if a guy played the part of a human yo-yo, & kept going down & coming right back up for three long minutes, the score could be construed as 10-0, though I would think that, just for continually getting back up, he should be awarded a point or two.

Even in Mike Tyson's Punchout I was never dropped that much!

-Randy G.

hhascup
07-12-2010, 06:46 PM
Here's 8 knockdowns by Marcel Cerdan vs José Ferrer on September 30, 1942.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok668rOv_4c

Also, Danny O'Sullivan vs Vic Toweel.
Johannesburg, S. Africa, Dec-1950. English Bantamweight O'Sullivan was down eight times in the fifth round during this Bantamweight title fight; however he managed to continue before retiring in the tenth. Toweel was reported as saying he could not belief his opponent kept getting up.

StingerKarl
07-17-2010, 08:20 PM
Hey Randy:

One of the worst calls ever that I can recall for a fight was Curtis Parker W Tony Braxton, in which "Jim" who was your partner on prism made his mind up after the second round that Braxton was going to win the fight.

He jumped ship after the 8th round when Parker really started walloping the guy, but I always admired the way you held a neutral stance and called it the way you saw it, which was for the winner, Curtis Parker.

You were at the top then, are we going to see a return in the next few years to your glory days?

Best of Luck,

Karl

Randy Gordon
07-18-2010, 11:53 AM
STINGER: Yes, I remember the fight you talk about well. It was Curtis Parker vs. Tony Braxton, brother of Dwight (Muhammad Qawi) Braxton, in the Winter of 1983. I did the color commentating for the PRISM Network, which was based out of Philadelphia, PA, along with their Sports Director, Jim Barniak. It was an exciting, see-saw battle with Braxton on top early and Parker storming back to capture a 10-round majority decision. I don't really remember Barniak going back and forth during the fight, but I do recall my feeling that Parker would have to stage a late-fight rally if he was going to win, and that's exactly what happened.

As far as me being "on top" then, I really was. At the time, I was Editor-in-Chief of The Ring, as well as the color analyst for USA Network Boxing, which would later become the "Tuesday Night Fights." I also did color commentating for SportsChannel in New York, NESN in New England, PRISM in Philly, the Sunshine Network in Florida & a slew of other networks all at the same time. In 1986, I added the Madison Square Garden Network to my TV resume.

When I left television behind to become Chairman of the New York State Athletic Commission in 1988, I also left openings for so many other guys to step up and fill the void that my moving on created. Sean O'Grady replaced me at USA. Gil Clancy replaced me at MSG. Bobby Czyz then became an announcer. Steve Farhood did, too. And Teddy Atlas. And young Max Kellerman.

When NY Gov. George "Whacky" Pataki ripped apart the NYSAC in 1995 & began to fill the commission with nothing but political hacks & men whose money helped his campaign, I walked away from boxing for a few years. I didn't read about it & I didn't watch it. I rarely talked about it. But I thought about it a lot. Then, in the early part of the new millennium, my wife, along with a friend, Jack Stanton, convinced me to get back into the sport. I attended a fight card in Queens, NY. It was a Star Boxing card. Star Boxing's President, Joe DeGuardia, asked me to announce a card along with Arnie Rosenthal. I did. I was back.

Three years ago, I was hired by Sirius Satellite Radio to begin hosting a show called "Fight Club." It's an MMA show (sorry, boxing fans!). It quickly became one of Sirius' most popular shows. I now do three "Fight Club" shows per week. In April, Sirius, which is now SiriusXM, added a Friday evening boxing show to my schedule called "Friday Night at the Fights." In my few months on the air coast-to-coast, we have had some of the biggest names in boxing join us as guests. Fighters, managers, promoters & other boxing personalities are flooding my voice mail & SiriusXM mailbox with requests to be a guest on the show. We are hoping to soon be put onto our own channel, dedicated strictly to Combat Sports. It would be 24/7/365 of fighting arts...boxing, MMA, wrestling, etc. So, here I am, once again doing what I love & loving what I do.

Stinger, it doesn't matter whether or not I am on top.

That's because, to me, with my announcing & talking to you guys here on the CBZ, it really feels as if I am.

-Randy G.

Randy Gordon
07-20-2010, 12:35 PM
Pretty Boy Floyd Mayweather will not be fighting Congressman Manny Pacquiao. At least not in 2010.

It's been a see-saw ride, but now it finally looks as if it's over. The fight we all so badly want to see will not be happening.

I fail to believe that Hall-of-Famer Bob Arum, along with future Hall-of-Famers Oscar de la Hoya, Manny Pacquiao & Floyd Mayweather, couldn't get it done. They should all hang their heads in shame.

Boxing really needed them to fight. The buzz around that fight--had it been made--would have been incredible, starting from the moment the fight was signed. But now, all we are getting from PBF, who usually has a big mouth, is silence. And what we are getting from Bob Arum, is talk of the Congressman's next fight. It looks as if it will be against either Miguel Cotto or Antonio Margarito. Do you really want to see a rematch of Pac-Man-Cotto? It's not like their first fight went down to the wire, with Cotto dropping the narrowest of decisions. And Margarito? More than a large number of you believe he should be behind bars, not making tons of money fighting one of the world's best boxers.

Boxing had a real chance to step up and take the spotlight from MMA, even for a brief time. But, alas, our old sport couldn't do it.

Yeh, I know. Maybe next year.

But probably not.

Sigh!

-Randy G.

Randy Gordon
07-29-2010, 10:58 PM
I just received news that my friend & colleague, John R. Branca, has passed away at the age of 86 from heart disease at his home in Boca Raton, Florida. Branca was appointed Chairman of the New York State Athletic Commission in 1984 by New York Governor Mario Cuomo, and kept the job until for a couple of years before stepping down, being replaced by Jose Torres.

Branca was big on boxing safety & reform, & frequently called me during my years as Chairman to discuss the latest happenings in the world of boxing & to offer me advice.

He was a good man who always had a kind word to say about everybody.

R.I.P. John

-Randy G.

Randy Gordon
07-29-2010, 11:04 PM
Anybody who gets either Sirius Radio or XM Radio can tune in on Friday, July 30, from 7-9 pm (ET), and hear a fun discussion I'll be having with both Larry Holmes & Gerry Cooney, as they discuss their heavyweight title bout in 1982.
The show is "Friday Night at the Fights" & can be heard on Sirius channel 125 & XM channel 241.

-Randy G

hawk5ins
08-02-2010, 11:22 AM
I was away this past weekend. (and I STILL don't get Sirius, but that is besides the point.)

Care to give us some highlights so we all can appreciate what we missed (again.).

Hawk

Randy Gordon
08-02-2010, 10:02 PM
I really enjoyed doing the interview with Larry Holmes (on the phone) & Gerry Cooney (in studio). Over the years (28) since their fight in Las Vegas on June 11, 1982, the two have become very good friends.

On my show they talked about the pre-fight venom which was spewed by Cooney's management & by promoter Don King. Also, both--especially Holmes--were shocked when I told them about the amount of security which covered the makeshift arena in the parking lot at Caesars Palace. Sharpshooters were in place on the roof of Caesars & at a few other locations. In addition, a majority of the Las Vegas police force were in the arena, most in plain clothes, all heavily armed. This was because white supremacist groups had threatened to shoot Holmes on his way to the ring, and black militant groups said that if Cooney had won, he wasn't going to make it out of the ring alive. Both guys were quite stunned by that news. Wouldn't those same useless racist groups be proud that Holmes and Cooney are so close today?

The 20-minute interview, which I am going to replay on this Friday's show, had me asking questions to both guys ("Larry, when you dropped Cooney in the second round, did you think he was going to stay down?" and "Gerry, was there any doubt in your mind that you'd be able to come back after that knockdown and make a fight out of it?").

The two men are extremely close today and speak often. They have as easy a time discussing their fight as they do talking about their families. I only wish all fighters could enjoy the health, wealth, friendship, popularity & prosperity as Holmes & Cooney do.

I have done a lot of interviews. That one was among my favotites.

Following the show, Cooney & I did another interview & taped it for air this Friday. It was one of the most disturbing interviews I have ever done. It was with Tommy Morrison.

Back in the mid-'90's, he was diagnosed with HIV. Tommy is 41 now. He says he has rid his body of the HIV virus. He says he has applied to the Nevada State Athletic Commission for his boxing license, but they haven't responded to him. He said they will give it to him. And when they do, he said he plans on winning every heavyweight title belt available. I asked what he plans on doing with his life should he be turned down.

"They won't turn me down," he said with confidence.

"But what if they should?" I asked.

"They won't turn me down!" he insisted.

When we finished the interview, Gerry, my producer, my intern & I just looked at each other. We never expected that. We were hoping to find a former champ who was keeping himself clean & his HIV levels to a minimum, & to hearing about a life without competing. I thought maybe he'd tell us he was managing guys. Then he tells us he doesn't have HIV & plans on fighting & winning at the highest level. Wierd! Very wierd! And very disturbing.

If you get SiriusXM, see if you can listen this Friday from 7-9 pm.

Larry Holmes & Gerry Conney: A friendship forged from hate.

Tommy Morrison: His Biggest Battle is Against Himself.

-Randy G.

Ron Lipton
08-03-2010, 12:02 AM
That is great stuff and I am glad to know both Larry and Gerry are pals. that is the way it should be in boxing.

I wish you would have asked Tommy about his memories of the bout with Razor Ruddock. I spoke to Tommy a couple of times through the years and hope he is ok. He once told me he was glad a former boxer was the referee for that bout, which made me feel good.

I wish him the best if you could pass that on to him.

Randy Gordon
08-04-2010, 05:13 PM
Ron: I will be playing the interview with Tommy Morrison on this Friday's show on SiriusXM, and will most likely be speaking to him off the air before then. I will be sure to send your best to him, Ron.

As far as Larry Holmes & Gerry Cooney being pals, I think that's great. All the racial crap that was stirred up going into their fight in 1982 was conjured up by the morons & phonies surrounding both Cooney & Holmes. All either guy wanted that day was to be involved in a boxing match.

In fact, both Holmes & Cooney remembered what it was that the champion said to the challenger right before the opening bell rang.

As they touched gloves, Holmes said to Cooney, "Let's have a good fight."

That's all either guy wanted.

-Randy G.

Randy Gordon
08-15-2010, 06:16 AM
It's not like I'm just finding this out, but the Klitschko Brothers are in a league of their own. Of the world's top 25 heavyweights, the Klitschkos have beaten over half of them--decisively. Sam Peter gets another shot at Wladimir next month and Shannon Briggs faces Vitali a short time after that. Of the two challengers, Peter has the better shot, basically because of his (A punching power and B) new training regimen. Those two things most likely still won't be enough for Peter, but I'd say he has the best chance of any challenger in the last six years of beating a Klit. Surely, you don't think Shannon Briggs is capable of pulling off a victory over big brother Vitali, do you?

After watching Cris "The Nipple" Arreola's victory over Manny Quezada, you can't possibly still believe--if you ever did--that Arreola stands a chance of dethroning either brother. "The Nip" threw everything he had at Quezada and couldn't put him away. Neither Klitschko is in any danger of losing to Arreola.

So, who's out there who'll beat the Klitschkos? Tomas Adamek? Believe me, what he did to Arreola he would never get away with against the Klitschkos. David Haye? Stop! He doesn't want to be in the same room as the Klits! Alex Povetkin? He knows he's a year away from being ready. His trainer thinks it's more than that--maybe 10 years away.

It's unfortunate, because the heavyweight division is as stale as it has ever been. This is not because of the Klitschkos, as they'll fight anybody. It's partly because they are so freakin' good and the rest of the division is so freakin' bad.

Isn't there a big man on this planet who can beat them?

I hate to say it, but maybe it's time Nicolei Valuev was thrown in against them. You're laughing!

Can you think of anyone better?

-Randy G.

Randy Gordon
08-20-2010, 09:46 AM
For those of you with SiriusXM, I have two interesting guests tonight (Friday, 8/20). One is Riddick Bowe, the other is Ray Mercer.

I once thought Riddick Bowe would become one of the great heavyweight champions in history. He had all the ability to become just that. Instead, he is a young man wandering aimlessly, his life in ruins. Was it too many tough fights? Was it the two brutal fights against Andrew Golota?

As for Ray Mercer, he is in his mid-40's, still fighting, but mainly in MMA. Why? What made him go from Olympic gold medalist to an overweight former champ fighting for a few bucks here and there?

Listen to them both live, in separate interviews, between 7-9 pm (ET) on Sirius channel 125 & XM channel 241.

-Randy G.

Randy Gordon
09-02-2010, 04:38 PM
Both Adeyinka Makinde & Ron Lipton will appear on my SiriusXM show "Friday Night at the Fights," which is hosted by both myself & Gerry Cooney. The show airs live every Friday from 7-9 pm on Sirius channel 125 & XM 241. Makinde & Lipton--who once arrested DePaula's shooter--will join the show at 8:00 pm. I have spoken to both of them about the topic & it is a riveting listen. Hope you guys (and gals) will be able to check out their interview. Makinde is the recent author of "Jersey Boy: The Life & Mob Slaying of Frankie De Paula."

-Randy G.

Ron Lipton
09-03-2010, 11:50 PM
Great questions posed by Randy to Adeyinka Makinde about "Jersey Boy, The Life and Mob Slaying of Frankie DePaula. Ade as always did a splendid job and it was fun talking to the team of Randy and Gerry Cooney, you can't do too much better in the world of boxing.

Chuck Wepner made me feel great on the air too, always liked him and I am happy he remembered me from the old days. What a brave man he was in that ring and such a nice guy outside too, just like Gerry.

Randy Gordon
09-24-2010, 10:39 AM
On tonight's "Friday Night at the Fights" on SiriusXM, our guests will be former lightweight champ Greg Haugen, New York Daily News boxing writer Mitch Abramson & boxer Sergio Mora, fresh off his controversial draw against Shane Mosley. That's tonight, from 7-9 pm (ET) on Sirius 125/XM 241.

Randy Gordon
09-30-2010, 09:15 AM
Hear HOF'er Michael Carbajal's heart-wrenching story as he tells it tonight on SiriusXM's "Friday Night at the Fights" from 7-9 pm (ET) on Sirius 125, XM 241.

Randy Gordon
10-01-2010, 04:58 PM
Johnny Tapia has been added to "SiriusXM's "Friday Night at the Fights," along with Michael Carbajal." That's tonight from 7-9pm on Sirius 125, Xm 241.

Randy Gordon
10-08-2010, 04:25 PM
Former heavyweight contender Earnie Shavers, arguably oneof the greatest punchers of all time--join me & Gerry Cooney on SiriusXM's "Friday Night at the Fights" on Friday (10/8) from 7-9 pm (ET). Also on the show will by International Boxing Hall of Fame Executive Director, Ed Brophy.

Ron Lipton
10-17-2010, 07:15 PM
Ron Lipton
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York

Re: Klit/Briggs Post Fight Discussion
I respect the refs background but he should have absolutely stopped this fight as should have the corner. No explanation for not stopping works for this one.
The man was taking a non stop facial pounding with no chance of winning and that is how boxer's die. Shannon did not have the reflexes or youthful conditioning to be allowed to remain in that ring for such one sided beating.

It comes down to the referee number one, the corner and the doctor.

The films show clearly this one should not have been allowed to go on as long as it did. I would like to know what Randy Gordon thinks about this issue.

Randy Gordon
10-17-2010, 10:32 PM
Ron: You are 1000% percent correct. The referee should have taken this upon himself to put an ending to the fight. As I watched with a few friends, I was asking, "How long can Briggs stand up to this beating?" By the eighth, and seeing my scorecard a shutout for Big Klit and Briggs getting nailed repeatedly by stiff right hands from one of the best heavyweights in decades, I started asking, "Why doesn't the referee end this slaughter?" A friend said, "There will be tremendous protest from the Briggs corner" after Shannon landed one of his rare punches late in the fight. My friend added, "Briggs still has a puncher's chance!" reminding me of Briggs' late-round victory against Sergei Laikovich several years ago.

"This isn't Sergei Liakovich" I reminded him.

From the 9th round on, I was shaking my head, yelling at the ref, and at my friend, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, who was working Briggs corner, to do Shannon a huge favor and do what Eddie Futch did to Joe Frazier--say, "That's it, son. No more tonight."

Shannon Briggs has a torn left biceps, a broken left orbital bone, a broken nose and bruises all over. He's lucky to be alive.

He's a brave, courageous warrior. He's a lot braver than those around him who should have shown courage and stopped the fight four or five rounds earlier.

You couldn't be more correct, Ron.

-Randy G.

Ron Lipton
10-18-2010, 10:20 PM
Randy, it was just horrible for me to watch. I always liked Shannon, in person outside that ring he was a lovable friendly intelligent guy and I was really scared for his welfare watching that beating.

Randy Gordon
10-21-2010, 04:09 PM
The first reports which came out of Germany were that Shannon Briggs was taken to a hospital for observation. Then some reports said he had lapsed into a coma and was in grave shape. Thankfully, those reports were false, but poor Shannon is really banged up. Apparently, he tore his left bicep tendon as early as the second round, which explains why he hardly made even an attempt to throw som much as a jab. It also says he fought with only the hope of landing the "Punch of the Year" on the chin of Vitali Klitschko. I don't know how much his corner knew, but I am having Eddie Mustafa Muhammad on my SiriusXM show on Friday, October 29. At that time, he'll be able to tell us if Shannon kept the injury to himself and, if Eddie himself knew, why he didn't stop the fight, saving Shannon from the beating he eventually took.

It was painful to watch!

-Randy G.

PeterD
10-23-2010, 04:42 AM
Hi Mr Gordon,

It is probably a well-known question so I apologise.

Just wanted to ask why Nat Fleischer didn't call Muhammad Ali by his name but used Cassius Clay for years after Ali had changed his name.

Fleischer seems to have been an open-minded journalist yet persisted with Clay. Why?

Thanks,

Peter

Randy Gordon
10-26-2010, 11:49 AM
Peter: As to your question about Nat Fleischer continually calling Muhammad Ali "Cassius Clay," I can only tell you what Nat Loubet, the former Editor & Publisher of The Ring told me in August 1979.

The reason I remember it was August 1979, is because that was the time I started as Editor of The Ring. Loubet, who had just turned over the publishing reigns to Bert Sugar, was Fleischer's son-in-law. He stayed on for a few months with us, easing himself into retirement. That first week, Loubet and I went out to lunch at a greasy place next to the offices of The Ring, the Cosmic Diner. It was a place I would get to know well over the next five years.

During our lunch, one of the many questions I asked him was, "Why did your father-in-law insist on calling Muhammad Ali by his birth name, and rating him as such?"

Loubet just placed a hand on my shoulder, smiled and said, "Because he was Nat Fleischer, because he was old and because he had gotten used to the name Cassius Clay. That's all there is to it. Nothing more, nothing less."

He did say that his father-in-law had told him, "Clay will never keep that name. He'll be Muhammad Ali for a short while, but then give up the name and go back to the name we all know--Cassius Clay." I actually remember Grandpa Gordon telling me the same thing in 1964. Scores of old fight fans who knew nothing about and cared nothing about the Black Muslims were sure that Clay's changing his name would only be temporary. So, rather than have the typesetter change the heavyweight ratings to look like this:

CHAMPION: Muhammad Ali Louisville, KY

they kept it like this:

CHAMPION: Cassius Clay Louisville, KY

It was just a matter of an old man, set in his ways, refusing to change with the era he was now living in. The man who knew and covered Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Harry Greb, Benny Leonard, Joe Louis and scores of other greats knew Cassius Clay. He did not know Muhammad Ali or what he stood for or what all of that was about. So, he did the easiest thing, which was to rate him and call him Cassius Clay.

It was nothing more than than.

-Randy G.

PeterD
10-27-2010, 02:06 AM
Thanks for the information, Randy. Relieved that it was nothing sinister.

hawk5ins
10-27-2010, 08:04 AM
Speaking of transitions within the Ring, I was wondering if you could share your recollections of how the ouster of your good friend Bert Sugar went down with then owner (?) Dave DeBusschere.

That had to be such a mixed bag for you. Finally getting to run the ship, but at the same time, knowing your pal Bert was getting somewhat of a hose with the ownership (which did right itself finally about 5 or 6 years down the line, when Bert got Boxing Illustrated).

Love to hear about it (and how old Herb handled it as well!), unless I'm stealing again from one of your chapters!

Hawk

Randy Gordon
10-28-2010, 03:20 PM
Hawk: All I can say to your question is "Whew!" Yes, it was a mixed bag for me, because Bert was & still is a good friend of mine. As I have been spending much time at the gym & even more time at SiriusXM Radio, I am gonna' pull out excerpts from the chapter of the book I have been working on for the last 200 years!

I will tell you that Dave DeBusschere, a fine baseball player & a great basketball player, was a miserable man with a drinking problem. And that's about as nice as I can be in writing about him. Another wealthy partner from Chicago, was a money pit who cared not about The Ring, but about how much money would it return to him.

Nigel Collins, who continues to reign in The Ring's hierarchy, played a part in Sugar's ouster, and later mine--which was the best thing that could've happened to me.

As you can see, the story is a detailed one.

My only question is this: Why did I not break Collins' jaw the next time we saw each other? He truly deserved it!

Maybe we can face each other in an exhibition for charity down the road. That would be so much fun!

-Randy G.

PeterD
10-29-2010, 01:55 AM
Any planned publication date for your book, Randy?

Peter

Randy Gordon
10-29-2010, 10:09 AM
Peter: Although I have not planned a date for publishing the book, I am really getting antsy about wanting to finish it. However, with so much going on in my life that's new & exciting on the boxing side--especially with my growing show on SiriusXM--I keep putting off having it published, and instead, I just keep adding to it.

Tonight on my show I'll be having a smorgasbord of guests. Former champ Carlos Ortiz joins the show at 7:15. He'll be followed by my in-studio guests, the Burrell Twins, who will be making their debut in a few weeks. At 8:00, I'll be joined on the phone by Jean Pascal, and at 8:15 by unbeaten prospect Mikey Perez. It should be a fun show. SiriusXM's "Friday Night at the Fights" from 7-9pm (ET) on Sirius 125 & XM 241.

Gotta' run...gonna' get back to work on this chapter about Larry Holmes.

-Randy G

hawk5ins
10-29-2010, 04:06 PM
that my previous post was simply a poorly disguised attempt to get you going on finishing that book of yours.

Amazon.com keeps refusing to take my Pre-Order request on it as well.

Very interesting about Mr. Collins. That kind of explains a few things that had me wondering over the years.

Such as when the book THe Best of the RIng book came out and the entire Sugar and Gordon era.........were missing. Begining up through Loubet and then a skip to Collins' led tenure and then when Stanley Weston took over.

VERY interesting.

THank you.

Hawk

Randy Gordon
11-01-2010, 03:43 PM
Hawk: I find it interesting how you noticed that, when the Ring came out with special editions, the stories in the Sugar-Gordon Era were omitted. The same when The Ring had its 75th birthday party. Omitted from the guest list by Stanley Weston & Nigel Collins were Bert & yours truly.

I bought a ticket to sit in the back in Atlantic City & listened to Collins (whom I hired) give a speech which made my stomach turn. He really believes he is a greater figure in terms of The Ring than was Nat Fleischer.

I could go on and on about the drunk that was Weston & how I almost fired Collins for his continual use of drugs during working hours, but felt bad for him and allowed him to stay. But this is yet another chapter in the book, and a chapter which changed my life--for the better.

-Randy G.

hawk5ins
11-01-2010, 05:17 PM
Don't give me TOO much credit!

It was PAINFULLY Obvious what was missing.

I'm not being a suck up here, but the Sugar Gordon Era at the Ring was THE best era the magazine ever endured. THe magazine was completely reformatted and the credibility that was LOST from the 77 US Boxing Scandal, was immediately reestablished with the product you guys put out.

Now I understand there are those who have their issues with Bert. But to argue that the RIng was NOT incredible at that time, is simply being blind. (I will give oodles of credit to Weston's other boxing Mags, KO, World Boxing, International Boxing etc, for ALSO being top shelf mags, that obviously pushed the RIng to be as great as it was during this time.)

ANd to NOT have that this timeframe included in any of the specials? Not only is is Insulting to you two.

It's insulting to the Fans as well.

Yeah, let's do a History of Boxing book and pretend that 1979 through mid to late 1984 never happened.

Here's another thing I noticed that I thought was very trite:

After Bert was forced out, on page 2 or 3 of every issue when you were the editor, where they listed volume #, Founder, Editor, Senior Editor, etc. you did a real classy thing and listed the "reigns of the RIng".

IE:

Nat Fleischer Editor and Publisher 1922-1972

Nat Loubet Editor and Publisher 1972-1979

Bert Suger Editor and Publisher 1979-1983

When Collins took over, that was the first thing that went.

Way too Obvious. And IMO child like.

Not knowing your relationship with Collins, I was always hesitant to ask you about this based on what "Seemed" like petty jealousy coming from him.

You just confirmed what I had thought was the case, for a long time now.

Thanks Commish.

Hawk

Ron Lipton
11-01-2010, 09:43 PM
Very few people loved boxing more than Randy and me and dedicated our lives to it. It is so sad fate intervened here and there to hurt two of the best protectors of professional boxing and caused roads to split, maybe the long and winding road will bring it all back to where it should be before it is all gone.

hawk5ins
11-02-2010, 08:45 AM
to my previous post.

There was a Special RIng Mag Issue that came out in 2005 that was called the ALL TIME CLASSIC ISSUE, The RIng Yearbook, Great Fighters...Great Writers. The Foremost Boxing Columns of the Last 82 Years.

So as you would expect there were many many old articles from the Ring up through present day. And as a bonus, there were pieces from the Weston Publications as well, such as KO, World Boxing and Boxing 98, etc.

Guess how many Ring articles were reprinted from the 1979-1984 era Randy?

ONE.

October 1980 article by Bert on Women In Boxing in the RIng.

Special huh?

Hawk

Randy Gordon
11-03-2010, 12:41 PM
Yeh, Hawk, Nigie Boy gives Bert & I ZERO credit for turning the magazine around, or even acknowledging we were a part of it. But that's okay. I know what we meant to the magazine, and so do the fans who purchased it back then.

Guys like you remember, and that's what really matters to me.

Thanks.

-Randy G.

Randy Gordon
11-04-2010, 11:38 AM
Former lightweight king Carlos Ortz, along with former light heavyweight champion Eddie Mustafa Muhammad & Gleason's Gym owner Bruce Silverglade are among the guests on SiriusXM's"Friday Night at the Fights" tomorrow from 7-9 pm (ET) on Sirius channel 125 & XM 241.

-RG

hawk5ins
11-04-2010, 11:47 AM
I really got to break down one of these days and get Sirius.

Hawk

Randy Gordon
11-11-2010, 08:39 AM
I really got to break down one of these days and get Sirius.

Hawk
Hawk: Not to be a sales rep for SiriusXM, but it's a great product. Even if I didn't host two different shows I would get it. In addition to sports, the station has music you love, comedy channels, songs from Broadway hits, talk, politics, and Howard Stern. It's a little something for everybody. And you can drive cross-country without losing the signal.

And I would be honored if any of you ever listened to "Friday Night at the Fights."

-Randy G.

hhascup
11-15-2010, 08:51 PM
Congratulations Randy! I knew about this for several months now, But now it's official.

New Sanctioning Body – Combative Sports Federation (CSF)
November 15th, 2010 | Author: Alexander Zammit

International Boxing Hall of Famer Larry Hazzard Sr., a former referee, commissioner and boxer, announced yesterday that along with former IBF president and founding member, Marian Muhammad, they have formed a world combative sports sanctioning organization based in New Jersey. The Combative Sports Federation, Inc., or CSF, will include rankings of professional boxers and mixed martial artists around the world. Hazzard, a 50-year veteran of both sports, is the first president of the CSF and his partner, Marian Muhammad is vice president. Former New York boxing commissioner, Randy Gordon, will serve as the organization’s ratings chairman, and former WBC supervisor and liaison to U.S. Commissions, Rhonda Utley-Herring, will be the championships chairman.

“We have a very competent staff with the experience and passion for maintaining the integrity, health and safety of combative sports. Together, we have more than a century and a half of experience in all aspects of boxing. Championships chairman Utley-Herring and I authored the unified rules that professionalized the sport of mixed martial arts while at the New Jersey commission, when no one else would touch them and for me, this is just the next logical progression”, said Hazzard.

The recent International Boxing Hall of Famer believes that there’s definitely room for a credible sanctioning organization in the world of combative sports. He target is to make combat sport more competitive through his new organization. According to Hazzard, even with the number of sanctioning organizations that already exist, they still cannot rank all of the fighters who are deserving of a chance to vie for a world title.

Hazzard says he and his team will continue the work he started at the IBF when he and Muhammad called a meeting of all of the major world boxing sanctioning organizations to discuss important changes necessary to bring the sport into the 21st century, such as the formation of a super heavyweight division, the unified use of instant replay, unification of titles, and increased participation of female champions. He also met with the Boxing Promoters Association, BPA, headed by Joe DeGuardia, who expressed their enthusiasm over Hazzard’s desire to include promoters’ opinions and comments during his initial development and structure of the CSF championship rules.

http://maltaboxing.net/blog/2010/11/new-sanctioning-body-combative-sports-federation-csf/

bodyblow
11-15-2010, 09:16 PM
Congratulations Randy! I knew about this for several months now, But now it's official.

New Sanctioning Body – Combative Sports Federation (CSF)
November 15th, 2010 | Author: Alexander Zammit

International Boxing Hall of Famer Larry Hazzard Sr., a former referee, commissioner and boxer, announced yesterday that along with former IBF president and founding member, Marian Muhammad, they have formed a world combative sports sanctioning organization based in New Jersey. The Combative Sports Federation, Inc., or CSF, will include rankings of professional boxers and mixed martial artists around the world. Hazzard, a 50-year veteran of both sports, is the first president of the CSF and his partner, Marian Muhammad is vice president. Former New York boxing commissioner, Randy Gordon, will serve as the organization’s ratings chairman, and former WBC supervisor and liaison to U.S. Commissions, Rhonda Utley-Herring, will be the championships chairman.

“We have a very competent staff with the experience and passion for maintaining the integrity, health and safety of combative sports. Together, we have more than a century and a half of experience in all aspects of boxing. Championships chairman Utley-Herring and I authored the unified rules that professionalized the sport of mixed martial arts while at the New Jersey commission, when no one else would touch them and for me, this is just the next logical progression”, said Hazzard.

The recent International Boxing Hall of Famer believes that there’s definitely room for a credible sanctioning organization in the world of combative sports. He target is to make combat sport more competitive through his new organization. According to Hazzard, even with the number of sanctioning organizations that already exist, they still cannot rank all of the fighters who are deserving of a chance to vie for a world title.

Hazzard says he and his team will continue the work he started at the IBF when he and Muhammad called a meeting of all of the major world boxing sanctioning organizations to discuss important changes necessary to bring the sport into the 21st century, such as the formation of a super heavyweight division, the unified use of instant replay, unification of titles, and increased participation of female champions. He also met with the Boxing Promoters Association, BPA, headed by Joe DeGuardia, who expressed their enthusiasm over Hazzard’s desire to include promoters’ opinions and comments during his initial development and structure of the CSF championship rules.

http://maltaboxing.net/blog/2010/11/new-sanctioning-body-combative-sports-federation-csf/


just what we need...:rolleyes:

Randy Gordon
11-23-2010, 06:14 PM
I am really looking forward to this week's "Friday Night at the Fights," when both Sugar Ray Leonard & Lou DiBella join in the festivities.

DiBella is in party mode after his fighter, Sergio Martinez, turned out Paul Williams' lights with one mighty left hand.

As for Leonard, who still looks in fighting shape, this week marks the 30th anniversary of his victory against Roberto Duran at the Superdome in New Orleans, LA, in a bout fight fans know as "No Mas." Thirty years! Damn! Where did those years go?

-Randy G.

Ron Lipton
12-05-2010, 10:02 PM
Quote from Randy, on the CyberboxingZone.



"Yes, Stanley Christodoulou was another favorite of mine, as was Mitch Halpern. So was our own Ron Lipton. In fact, I will always take pride that I was the one who approved Lipton's ref's license. For every fight, I was always a bit nervous for every fight. Hey, when you're commissioner, you want everything to go smoothly. When Lipton or Wayne Kelly were in that ring, my nervousness was gone.

For what it's worth, if I was Chairman of the NYSAC again, I would make major, sweeping changes in the officials. And, in my small, "starting rotation," two names would be most prominent: Wayne Kelly would be one. Ron Lipton would be the other.

-Randy G.

R. Randy,will you now keep that promise if you ever make it again?

Ron

Ron Lipton
12-05-2010, 10:12 PM
Just curious as I have 13 years to make up for while everyone got the best assignments over and over again. I know how I was blackballed and how it started and the past is being addressed now in court. As to the immediate future,

There is talk from some behind the scenes that the new Gov. Cuomo will change the regime in the NYSAC.

They use referees who contributed via negligence to death and injuries, broken jaws and yet no even cared about it as evidenced by the NYSAC appointing them over and over again. They have neophytes on the roster where I had my seniority as a ref so to speak illegally taken from me for a long time.

The present NYSAC despite the fiasco in Yankee Stadium still assigned Mercante jr to bouts after that if that can even be believed.

The NY Supreme court knows it all, the AG's office knows it, and soon a Federal Court will too. I hope justice is finally done here and just getting a $50 license does not make up for what was done.

R

Randy Gordon
12-07-2010, 11:15 AM
I've heard from a lot of you via e-mail, texts, phone calls & Facebook regarding an upcoming change in NYSAC personnel. If there is a change coming, I have heard NOTHING about it, nor do I expect to see any change made or hope for a change to be made.

Generally, after a gubernatorial election, there are lots of rumors as to changes being made at all levels throughout the state. This includes the State Athletic Commission.

I remember, how, in 1994, after Gov. Mario Cuomo lost the election to Republican George Pataki, Republicans began campaigning for the job. No Republican campaigned harder for the position of Chairman than Arthur Mercante Sr. Thankfully, Gov. Pataki did not choose Mercante. Ring announcer Frank Shain also tried to get his wife, Eva, into the job. There was even talk that boxing writer Michael Katz wanted the job. Now, THAT I would have enjoyed seeing. I could have used a good laugh then. That might have been even a worse pick than Mercante. Unfortunately, Pataki did choose the very likable but incredibly incapable Floyd Patterson for the job, along with henchman Tony Russo. Over the next few years, the NYSAC became a joke, with political hacks being appointed to nearly every position in the agency.

Gov. Pataki thought he'd right the ship by bringing in attorney Mel Southard after Russo, but Southard was a fish out of water at the commission, and his term was also a joke.

Melvina Lathan is made for the job. She was an excellent judge and understands boxing and its nuances. She's also--like Cuomo--a Democrat. She's not going anywhere.

So, you can all stop with the rumors. Aside from an inspector or deputy here and there, John Doe is not going to replace Chairman Lathan or anybody else in power up at the NYSAC.

For a few, that might not work. For me, it does. I like things just the way they are at my old job and love things behind the mike at SiriusXM.

-Randy G.

hawk5ins
12-07-2010, 11:51 AM
(Katz as Commish) would have INDEED been a blast Randy!

Thoroughly enjoyed reading Katz's articles, but he could be SO over the top and biased and held such openly public grudges, that you just HAD to laugh when he would go off on his rants.

I imagine that there would not have been a single promoter in the entire boxing industry that would have staged a single fight in the state of NY, while the Wolfman was Commish.

Well, unless a rematch with Ron Borges were to come off.

Even Arum would have staged that one!

Hawk

Ron Lipton
12-07-2010, 06:37 PM
I heard it from one boxer, who was told by a promoter the Cuomo family would pick you. I guess they figured it is Mario Cuomo's son Andrew who might appoint you as did his Father.

My query was only here and an E-mail to you, that is it. Did not see any texts or FB stuff.

Glad to hear you enjoy the radio show, it was fun being on with you and Gerry, you do a good job.

As to the NYSAC lets be fair here based on irrefutable facts, despite both our past or present friendships with Melvina.

As to doing a good job, many issues glare out with the NYSAC et al and are being brought up in a legal forum not here now. So I will stick to one which is public knowledge according to all the writers in The Ring Magazine as to Melvina Lathan, Petrillo and the NYSAC absolutely not doing a good job or being honest about it in the Yankee Stadium debacle.

If Albany does not change things it is because it wants to be politcally correct not because it does not merit it and fast.

They have allowed under Gov Patterson Russo's friends from the Pataki regime to remain there in charge behind the scenes and worse.

For one thing when Melvina and staff continues to appoint Mercante jr based on friendship certainly not performance their judgment comes into question.

Whether he can one day learn to be a safe and capable referee when he grows up with more training is an issue that is gone forever now and steeped in the irrefutable facts of his legacy of in the ring negligence resulting in death and injury galore.

How many boxers does it take in dying or being ruined on the verge of death for the NYSAC to sit this poltical referee down. The NYSAC staff under Melvina and Ralph Petrillo still use him.

I think after the extreme over the top referee negligence which resulted in a boxer's death and the utter fiasco in Yankee Stadium, appointing Mercante junior to more work which was done 2 times after Yankee Stadium is not exactly doing a good job in the eyes of many.

Nor is taking direction from the onset of her appointment from the remaining Pataki appointees who have remained there and still reign there behind the scenes. It gives the appearance of being just a figurehead while their agenda of having their friends work there still is in place.

The Ring Magazine criticized her director of boxing Pataki's Ralph Petrillo along with her specifically for denying Mercante jr created a full blown fiasco in telling Yuri Foreman with a torn knee to "Suck it up son, " and then added his well known copied phrase from Gil Clancy his Father's best friend, "Who wants it more, " egging the injured fighter on with his ridiculous personal comments.

He has used that nauseating phrase many times in the ring which is not his job as a neutral referee. He is on tape making faces at the judges decisiions in disagreement with their verdicts in the Lewis v Mercer fight.

The judge he made the on camera face about was Melvina Lathan and she still uses him, that is not doing a good job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r1m9Xv4btY

Additionally the NYSAC allows him to actually tell the boxer how to fight, move this way, go that way? Are you kidding? That is on tape on You Tube, when I first saw it I could not believe it, yet NYSAC lets him work again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flNIBHxI6vE

His reward for a legacy of death and injury is for the NYSAC to give him more work? They appointed him to two more fights after the mess he made in Yankee Stadium. It bordered on megalomaniac lunacy according to every respected boxing writer.

They certainly have the films of Whitiker v Hurtado,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTsWKpjinco

Cotto v Foreman,

Jones v Scotland,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E96UK4vBb_s



Michael Bennett v Andrew Hutchinson, which has to be seen to be believed,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vTjLYdTv3E&feature=related

all the way back to Ruddock v Dokes,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uehFuWEkI-Q,

Murray v Green,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fVHQAWh-r0

Lewis v Grant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpdGFK_mqZI&playnext=1&list=PLDAA8697E6B401351&index=30

it goes on and on and they do nothing? That is not doing a good job as to him alone.

He then denied the chief second's wishes for the bout to be stopped and made the boxer fight himself into a major surgery and Melvina and Petrillo said it was ok?

Yes his Father and him with help from others tried to take my assignment on HBO away from me in DLH V Leija, behind the scenes with their frirends goint to the promoter Bob Arum and it is a part of a law suit, that being said,

The death of Scotland, Yuri Foreman being made to fight with a severe injury and all of the above can greatly be attributed to referee negligence and to the people who consistently use the worst officials no matter what they do.

With this guy NYSAC allows boxers to get really hurt, not just knocked down or out by one or two extra shots and get up and all is ok, but they get hurt or dead with this referee. They allow his personal comments on camera too.

When things become all political and others are running the show behind the scenes being a boxing fan, or a boxing judge who was given many assignments is not enough, you have to take a stand for what is right and they do not.

Randy Gordon
12-07-2010, 07:39 PM
Ron: Believe me...I know all this. Back in 1988, when I first was appointed Chairman, I believed young Mercante had all the tools to become a quality referee. He proved me otherwise. I am surprised that those who make the assignments at the NYSAC don't see this.

On a much larger scale, I am thrilled that a man named Cuomo is back in the mansion in Albany. He is a brilliant young leader and I believe New York will thrive and prosper with him in office.

As the New York State motto says: "Excelsior"--it means "Onward & Upward."

-Randy G.

Ron Lipton
12-07-2010, 07:48 PM
PS The thought of Katz or Mercante Sr being in charge of the NYSAC would have been some nightmare, both always taking direction from Howie boy who always shilled for the Mercantes, quid pro quo.

Ron Lipton
12-07-2010, 07:49 PM
Agreed, onward and upward and hopefully the new Gov will take a long hard look at what happened there and finally be fair.

Randy Gordon
12-08-2010, 07:37 AM
Unfortunately, the new Governor doesn't assign officials!

-Randy G.

Ron Lipton
12-08-2010, 12:44 PM
Yes, but the Governor's office we both know can remove NYSAC members who cause one travesty after another and are not doing their job Even a Governor can get in trouble like Elliot Spitzer did, or allow a situation to get worse or continue until the bad publicity from it hurts the NYSAC.

Allowing officials to be appointed over and over again to work in NY to be politically correct or a quid pro quo arrangement with lets say NJ like Ron Scott Rabinowitz did becomes questionable when one ref is used 3 times for the same boxer and previously let a fighter go 12 rounds with a broken jaw on world wide tv.

If the Governor's office previously knows nothing about boxing or acts as if they do not and gives Carte Blanche to people who allow a Yankee Stadium fiasco after so many warning signs including a ring death then they should take a long hard look at the history and chronology of certain issues.

Too many questionable behind the scenes improprieties exist in boxing with no one doing anything about it.

When in Texas Lawrence Cole was suspended for telling one fighter he was ahead on the cards and then given just about every major assignment by his own father after that is nepotism at its worst.

It is analogous to the what existed with the Mercantes in NY and the elder one's influence with the WBC, Republican politics and other boxing people which was a serious conflict of interests

By being fair I mean get rid of people who fix a weigh in like in Gatti v Gamache serious injury, look into the background of the people there now and their involvement and nexus to other issues which impacted on my lawsuit.

Appoint people who use officials who know what they are doing to avoid a Cotto V Foreman public fiasco the stink of which still permeates the pages of boxing magazines like The Ring and resounds within the memory of the families of B. Scotland and Yuri Foeman.

In the past the Governor's office was seemingly oblivious to what was going on in the NYSAC, the recent fiasco in Yankee Stadium comes after a ring death involving a choice to use the same ref with a history of letting boxers get seriously injured.

Ron Lipton
01-17-2011, 11:09 PM
Bodyblow wrote on the Briscoe v Carter Fantasy Fight thread last page some things about you, me, and Arthur Mercante Sr. This is the response to me simply saying Mercante Sr told me in person he scored for the boxers over the punchers as he liked them better, his decision for Benton in the Carter fight was booed lustily by the crowd. That set off bodyblow.


"Once again, its pretty low blow to be casting aspersions on the character of Arthur Mercante who was a fine gentleman and a fantastic arbitor and isnt exactly here to defend himself. Like I said, Arthur always stated (and frankly you dont know who I know Ron) that he was relieved not score as a ref.

Randy isnt exactly an unbiased observer considering Mercante kind of trashed him in his book.

That being said, in roughly fifty years of refereeing I never saw anyone say anything negative him (except that you have a problem with the way he called against your friend in a very close fight) and I certainly cant remember a time he was out of work.

Randy will say its because he had "the political juice" but thats oversimplifying isnt it? It was really because he was a damn fine referee which even Randy admits. Yes, I have had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Mercante. It was an honor and when I say he was a gentleman I mean that with the greatest sincerity.
bodyblow is offline Report Bad Post Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
bodyblow
View Public Profile
Send a private message to bodyblow
Find More Posts by bodyblow
Add bodyblow to Your Buddy List
Unread 01-17-2011, 09:56 PM #67
Ron Lipton
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York

Re: Sheesh
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodyblow
Better stamina?? Briscoe went 15 rounds ONCE and lost in a fight he admitted he held back because he was worried about the distance. Thats a fact that neither you nor Ron, friendship or not, can deny.

R. Friendship or not? I know Hagler as well as I know you.



Fact 2 is that by the halfway point of his career, more often than not, if Cartern went the distance he lost. Pretty pathetic when you consider his career only lasted 5 years.

R. Yes, he was a very pathetic fighter, accurate description.

This discussion is pretty elementary as far as Im concerned

R. Yes, me too.

because we know what Carter could accomplish because his career was spelled out in short order for us. We also know Briscoe could accomplish because of the long time span of his career for us to judge against a wide variety of contenders and champions over that time. It is conjecture, I go with Hawk on this one, Briscoe is highly respected because of what he did in the ring

R. I understand.


and Carter is heavily overrated because of how he was portrayed OUTSIDE of the ring.

R. Over rated by whom? Boxing people? Never. Apples and Oranges.
I am talking strictly inside that ring regarding a dream fight at his peak, stopping Griffith and Fernandez in one round. Outside the ring does not enter into this.

Once again, its pretty low blow to be casting aspersions on the character of Arthur Mercante who was a fine gentleman and a fantastic arbitor and isnt exactly here to defend himself.

R. A pretty low blow? You met him once and he was polite to you? It is hard to beat that kind of deep insight so why even try. The fact that you have been told a tip of the iceberg about what he did behind the scenes means nothing to you obviously because it was not done to you, it is as if you do not even listen remotely to what has been shown to you.

Your mind is made up. What I saw him do personally, is so riling and maddening you could not possibly understand from meeting him. Randy Gordon's statement says it all in spades. What difference does it matter as to who you know, we are not talking about who you knew or know, you did not know him as a referee, politician, or see him working the floor at a cocktail party at a boxing convention to get assignments. If you did you would throw up your nuts.

Like I said, Arthur always stated (and frankly you dont know who I know Ron) that he was relieved not score as a ref.
R. Yes I am sure he was once it came under great scrutiny and criticism from the fighters, their corners and managers and the commission.



Randy isnt exactly an unbiased observer considering Mercante kind of trashed him in his book.

R. Mercante kind of trashed him in his book? Kind of huh?
Shite, I mean shit man, Randy was his boss and dealt with him and his bizzarre and "Archaic" ideas along with his super ego and attempts to steal fights away from referees who were already assigned, his poltical machinations behind the scenes in the alphabet groups ad infinitum.

There are things he did that were so obnoxious, unwarranted and unnecessary to get an assignment for himself that my blood is going up right now thinking about it. So spare me the outsider looking in thing please.


That being said, in roughly fifty years of refereeing I never saw anyone say anything negative him (except that you have a problem with the way he called against your friend in a very close fight) and I certainly cant remember a time he was out of work.

R. I traveled with him, worked with him and was in his home during a film interview where the film crew walked out due to his off color racial imitations.
He was fond of being a conservative Republican and was active politically and got his assignments politically to the point that calls were "Arranged" to the Governor's office to take assignments away from others so he could get them. So fuck the impression he made on you with his ascot and aristocratic pretentions it means nothing to me.

If he got his way he was "Charming," if passed over the phone calls and moves to friends in the press, political office ensued and at one point fighting what was done ended up in a court case. His kid killed a boxer in the ring through negligence and ended up wounding and crippling others by freezing in the ring and wanting to be on camera more.

This was fought and dealt with while he was still with us. Ingratiating it into this thread is ridiculous. Questioning or fluffing off what Randy Gordon wrote and you read it, says it all. Both of us are polite and respectful people and both of us I know because I lived it with Comm Gordon, went out of our way to be respectful to King Arthur.

It did not work. The same silly pomposity and haughty condescension was always the norm no matter how much respect you gave him. If you were not in the way of him getting an assignment then all was peaches and cream if he got it. He was great pals with boxing writers who voted him into the IBHOF and he worked a lot. Like Randy said he was good, not great.


Randy will say its because he had "the political juice" but thats oversimplifying isnt it?

R. No it is understating it. I saw what he did to get assignments and in the DeLahoya v Leija fight I was assigned to a major effort was orchestrated to take it away. Ugly, crazy things behind the scenes which was consistent with what Randy Gordon wrote about him trying to take an assignment away from his own son.



It was really because he was a damn fine referee which even Randy admits.

R. No he did not admit that at all did he? He said the complete opposite including the IBHOF induction.

Yes, I have had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Mercante. It was an honor and when I say he was a gentleman I mean that with the greatest sincerity.
R. That I believe and agree with. I traveled with him many times, worked with him and he AND I were always polite, he made it a point to be polite and cultured.

So was Bela Lugosi when he played Dracula. So are a lot of people.
Now moving on, as far as what Randy wrote, read it again because it is an understatement. Sorry to burst your bubble about that issue but if he did to you what he did to me, you would not give a damn about how polite he was to your face.

I do respect you right to your opinion but keep an open mind mate.
Working a lot does not mean you are the best, in boxing it means you have friends. He stayed much too far away as a ref, missed too much of what was going on and worst of all, I saw him train the kid in the dressing rooms we shared, to POSE FOR THE CAMERA, MOVE WITH YOUR HANDS CUPPED TO YOUR SIDES, SO YOU LOOK SLIMMER FOR THE CAMERA, then he would put pancake makeup on in the dressing room as if the crowd came to see him referee, instead of coming to see the fight.

So spare me the hero worship on this one.
Randy did not say John Wayne was bisexual, he said Mercante was obnoxious and an ego maniac. I agree all the way.

You don't, ok? But you seem like you do not listen to the truth based on someone meeting you and being polite. A bit naive don't you think?



I think that isenough on this subject hopefully.

Randy Gordon
02-03-2011, 10:51 PM
R.I.P.--BOXING IN NEW YORK STATE


Don't know if you've heard, but Gov. Andrew Cuomo, wielding his budget slashing-axe as he attempts to keep New York State from going bankrupt, eliminated the salary of New York State Athletic Commission Chairperson Melvina Lathan. In effect, she can stay on as Chair, but taking only per diem pay for what amounts to lots of work for almost nothing.

The bad news about this is that the move leaves the NYSAC without a leader, without a figurehead, without a person to make the final decision. In effect, this move will kill boxing in New York, and even give birth to illegal, bootleg shows.

The good news is, this edict by the Governor needs Legislative approval. My guess is, that after reviewing his cuts, Gov. Cuomo will revise them and restore Commissioner Lathan's salary, finding other avenues from which to slash the budget.

If not, it's the end of boxing in New York.

-Randy G.

doomeddisciple
02-03-2011, 11:34 PM
Randy - As your radio show covers MMA as well, is this decision likley to impact on New York fans getting any MMA in town?

It's weird to me that in a couple of weeks I can go to my second Sydney UFC event when the big apple hasn't had one before.

Obviously the ramifications for boxing are poor - But maybe having an unpaid position will mean someone will do it for the true love of the sport?

Randy Gordon
02-04-2011, 10:39 PM
The position of Chairman of the NYSAC is a fulltime gig. It's more than fulltime. It's seven days a week. Who is in that position financially to be able to do the job for almost nothing?

-Randy G.

Ringer#1
09-15-2011, 07:45 PM
Bump

Ringer#1
09-15-2011, 08:27 PM
Mods, thank you for taking down the previous thread re my question as to where THIS thread went to.

I now see Randy's thread is still on the site.

I will be sure to reach out to him and let him know that it was not deleted and it actually still here. It was simply an issue of not getting many hits and it was unpinned.

When I did a search on it, nothing turned up, so I also assumed that it was deleted.

I will let him know.

Or if any of the Mods here want to let him know, feel free to give him a call.

If you don't have his #, Drop me an email and I will ask him if it is cool to pass on his # to you.

Thank again

slakka
10-14-2011, 01:10 AM
Dear Randy,
I'm dealing with some johnny come latelys.
If you could please impart your wisdom?
I do believe that after Durans Montreal magnificence you asked both Arcel and Freddie Brown if Duran could take prime
welterweight Sugar Ray Robinson.
Could you please handel the rest of this story when time allows sir?
Thanks in advance!!

Slakka