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View Full Version : Maskaev-Peter / Diaz-Campbell Results & Discussion 3/8/08



Roberto Aqui
08-10-2007, 09:22 AM
Peter is gonna be the fav, but Maskaev can fight and has some power and experience. His age works against him, but he could set some traps, box smart, and put Peter in some trouble. Peter hasn't shown a lot of power since Wlad got ahold of him, so it could be as he is stepping up in competition his power is less of a factor.

More intriguing fight than I initially thought. It might be make or break for Peter. Maskaev got a huge boost when he KOed Rahman again. He's a dramatic fighter for sure.

hagler04
08-10-2007, 09:31 AM
Peter is hog-fat and clearly has been eating too many scotch-eggs and sitting on his butt during the layoff, thinking he's already champion.

My brain still says Oleg loses, primarily b/c he's too old and open defensively.

But I'm going to place a few on him anyway. He's one of the very few Heavyweights these days who stays in shape year round, and Peter is going to come in way overconfident.

Phillyfan
08-10-2007, 10:50 AM
Interesting fight. looks like peter learned something since the klitscko fight, 4 straight wins. If he paces himself, it will be a long night for maskaev. Oleg training in the poconos, hmmmm, might have to take a ride up there and watch him work out.

diggity
08-10-2007, 12:54 PM
Oleg doesn't move well enough to give Peter problems & if Peter took Wlad's right hand all night long only to teeter in the final round, I'd say it's safe to say Oleg is not making him go anywhere. It will be an entertaining fight while it lasts but I don't see how Oleg avoids a KO by Peter.

bomma
08-10-2007, 01:19 PM
This is a great year for boxing!

sr71ko
08-14-2007, 06:52 PM
I second that emotion. I hope that Peter kayoes Maskaev and both Klitchsko brothers in the near future.

HE Grant
09-08-2007, 08:10 AM
Does he have a fight scheduled? Why is he not active, staying in shape and creating demand for a Klit fight? An in shape Peter, fresh off his victories over Toney is most likely the toughest challange for Jr. by far. Instead it appears if he has been highly inactive. Am I missing a scheduled fight?

TKO Tom
09-08-2007, 09:02 AM
Sounds like you are missing a scheduled fight.

Peter is challenging Oleg Maskaev for the WBC Heavyweight title on October 6th at Madison Square Garden.

PeteLeo
09-08-2007, 03:27 PM
Does Maskaev have one more miracle up his sleeve? Rahman may not be able to knock him out, but McCall, Whitaker, Johnson, Tua, etc. certainly were. PeteLeo.

diggity
09-08-2007, 06:27 PM
Peter's been waiting for this fight through all the mess & supposedly kept in shape. Maskaev has a slim chance IMO.

gregbeyer
09-08-2007, 08:08 PM
agreed dig. oleg is frankenstien slow and sam seems to be improving.... i think this should be easy for peter.
greg

prodigious1
09-09-2007, 07:15 AM
Oleg should out box him for a few rounds before Peter comes on inch by inch. Eventually he catches Oleg with a big shot and that's all she wrote.

newpoppop
09-09-2007, 06:41 PM
Is there a top 10 heavy in Peter's KO portfolio?

He may very well give Maskaev a 12-round beating, but I think his power may be overrated.

hagler04
09-11-2007, 10:01 AM
Could Mr. Murray professed greater man-love for Peter? "Thick and muscular 6ft" I agree with the thick part. "certaintly a great fighter" . . .plueeze.

The Big O could surprise a lot of people October 5th. His one big albatross is age but many insiders believe Peter is a good deal older than his 26 years as well.

mrbig1
09-12-2007, 08:53 PM
Oleg is a dead man. Easy win for sammy.

OMG65
09-21-2007, 04:00 PM
Geeze!
These brittle boxers from countries from the former Soviet Union!
I wonder when Ibragimov will pull out against Holyfield?

diggity
09-21-2007, 06:08 PM
The guy's just old & Peter would have just broken it for him anyway. It is a shame Peter should have to wait any longer for this shot.

ShawnTheBleeder
09-24-2007, 02:45 PM
Peter is going to be close to 300 pounds when he gets in the ring again. His career has been damaged this year. Tua was supposed to be the second coming of Tyson, Peter is going to be the second coming of Tua.
Shawn

hagler04
09-24-2007, 03:06 PM
What looked like a promising 2nd half of 2007 for the HW division has ended in disaster. The WBC's ring-around-the-rosey with Vitali-Peter-Oleg really backfired on them. The Heavyweights need to realize the public cares little for who has which paper title and simply go and make good fights. Screw the belts. Peter should be first to jump ship.

diggity
09-24-2007, 07:12 PM
Another murder waiting to happen.

Phillyfan
09-24-2007, 11:16 PM
I was talking with a friend who asked who was going to fight peter. I said my guess was jameel mccline. he seemed to be in the news a lot recently and seems to always get the big fights, not that he's won any. Its a shame the biggest news in boxing is tyson pleads guilty and the delahoya photos.

PeteLeo
09-25-2007, 12:25 AM
According to fightnews, Peter has now been named "interim champ" and his first defense will probably be against McCline.

Aren't you all glad I went to the effort of posting that info? PeteLeo.

diggity
09-25-2007, 09:10 AM
McCline joins the ranks of the most undeserved yet most televised fighters in the company of Guinn & Golata.

Julian Jackson
09-25-2007, 10:29 AM
I couldn't agree more. Pound-for pound, McCline may be one of the worst fighters I have had the displeasure of watching. No power, no endurance, and certainly no toughness. After his last few laughable performances, I can't imagine who lined up this shot. Actually, come to think of it, it must have been Peter's people, looking for the softest touch they could find for the crude and overrated "Nigerian Nightmare." Although I agree that Sam Peter has some power, his skills are amateurish, and his best punch seems to be (an illegal) behind-the head punch. If Wladamir Klitschko wasn't so painfully timid, he would have levelled Sam.

And awarding Peter an "interim belt" without even having to get in the ring is totally outrageous. It embodies everything that is wrong with boxing. I admit that Peter has a good chance to beat Maskaev (who I personally watched get knocked out in about 2 minutes by Olivar McCall a few years ago),he hasn't done so yet. Until he does, he absolutely does not deserve any title designation whatsoever.

The heavyweight division is now at an all time low. Not only could none of these current champs beat a prime Tony Tubbs, I am not even sure all of them could beat him now.

Thank god for the Welterweights and below!

Sharkey
09-25-2007, 12:23 PM
According to fightnews, Peter has now been named "interim champ" and his first defense will probably be against McCline.

Aren't you all glad I went to the effort of posting that info? PeteLeo.

The language and tenor of disgust is not strong enough for what is actually occurring here. I wouldn't care if Peter was the greatest heavyweight contender since the universe began to cool. You don't win a title without fighting AT ALL. A title is an award for doing something, even in the retarded world of boxing organizations. It is one thing to wish upon someone success... another to try to manipulate who has the chance of success and quite another to give a half-ass (interim) half-ass (championship) to a guy as a reward for the equivalent of not passing away. My understanding is that you don't call the guy a champion, he is not a real champion, he is kind of a champion, for kind of some period of time, until something else happens, whereby he will either be real champion or never was champion.

Got it.

It is nonsensical BEFORE we add even add McCline to the equation. Peter fighting McCline and calling it a defense is perhaps the least absurd portion of this. Which is amazing. Amazing and absurd to such a degree it requires one to suspend thought and enter a world where Bob Arum is the Minister of Sincerity and Chocolate buttons fall like leaves from the arms of men in powdered wigs riding side saddle on rocket powered Unicorns.

Let me see if I have this correct: Champion to fight Peter. Whoopsy!!! I mean Champion to fight Vitali, who we forgot was the real challenger because he retired as a champion which means he gets a crack when he feels like it, so long as he is emeritus, aka, we like him and see money in his success. WHOOOOOPSEEEYYY! Maskaev DOES have to fight Peter. Lawsuits and stuff. Vitali, you fight McCline because we all know McCline has as much chance against even your rusted out emeritus carcass as the banjo becoming a fashion accessory or a sport sedan from Mercedes called the Elmer Fudd.

What exactly is an interim champion? I don't ask for a definition consistant with the by-laws of some tax-shelter. How can someone be a champion on an interim basis? How can something that is "the meantime" warp time to recognize the garnering of a championship?!?!

Sharkey
09-25-2007, 12:36 PM
According to fightnews, Peter has now been named "interim champ" and his first defense will probably be against McCline.

Aren't you all glad I went to the effort of posting that info? PeteLeo.

The answer of what an interim champion is in real life can be best answered by an analogy. One can get used to horrible smelling places by being around that smell long enough where it becomes not noticable over time. Examples would be those who live near muck farms or breweries.

Well, the boxing organizations and the press that reports on them hope we can get so used to dumb we don't notice it anymore. So, an interim champion is someone who is advertised as not quite the real champion, which hopefully, over time will be acceptable as we move on to other things and we get used to it. So that when he is named real champ, or ultra champ, or has to no longer be interim, we kinda forgot or don't care what he is, but accept it anyway.

Juan C Ayllon
09-25-2007, 01:27 PM
Well, the boxing organizations and the press that reports on them hope we can get so used to dumb we don't notice it anymore.

I'm not sure how to take the bit about "the press that reports on them," but whatever!

The way I look at it is that the titles like "Interim," "Super" other adjectives attached to the word "Title" are just official sounding ways for sanctioning organizations to generate fees and revenues for themselves and promoters.

I, for one, would like to see more creative names added to the mix. I can see it now: Super-Duper Heavyweight Title, Stupendous Heavyweight Title holder, Simply Beyond Question Interim Heavyweight Title Holder. The possibilities are endless...

Juan C Ayllon
09-25-2007, 01:34 PM
Hey, how about Wheelchair boxing? That might just be the subject for a new reality boxing show and--if it's successful--a whole new league of boxing.

Can you see it? "And in this cornerrrrrr, the undisputed IBF Interim Heavyweight Wheelchair Boxing Champion of the Worrrrrrld, Lumoxxxx Buttttockssssss!"

And the crowd roars...

DscribeDC
10-05-2007, 04:17 PM
Barry Bonds, Rafael Palmiero, Mark McGwire, Jose Canseco, Floyd Landis, Marion Jones, Jameel McCline, James Toney...

How the heck did sports get so out of control?

hagler04
10-05-2007, 04:37 PM
http://www.titomendoza.com/mccline021.jpg

You mean to tell me this guy was using steroids?????

Nnnnnaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!

DscribeDC
10-05-2007, 05:57 PM
As a society, we pay these guys enough to give them both an incentive to cheat and the ability to evade detection. We made our own bed.

hawk5ins
10-05-2007, 07:02 PM
saying that I consider myself blameless for any transgressions Jemeel McCline may or may not have committed.

I never have and or never will Pay/Paid any amount that would directly place a penny in his pocket.

Personally, I'm pretty I am of the opinon, he owes me money.

Hawk

prodigious1
03-04-2008, 07:55 PM
Who do you like in both fights and how will they look in there?

I've got Diaz 7-5 over Campbell with his age being the difference in a very solid scrap. I think we could get something similar to Cotto-Mosley there.

Peter and Maskaev will probably be slow and clumsy looking. Maskaev's jab controls things early until he catches the end of something that hurts him badly or changes the fight altogether. I like Peter, but not sure how.


Feel free to make this a poll. I'm lost on how to do it here

doomeddisciple
03-04-2008, 08:44 PM
The really weird thing about the Peter Maskaev fight is how lean Peter is looking in all the press photo's I've seen this week - It's like a heavyweight that actually trained or something.

But seriously - Check the photo from this fightnews link -
http://www.fightnews.com/maskaev_peter_cancunpresser.jpg
Peter looks almost...fit! Don King looks like an extra from Mars Attacks...

At least you know there will be some power punches thrown before round 7, unlike the Russian Winter two weeks back...

Sharkey
03-04-2008, 09:14 PM
Maskaev's inactivity will hurt him. Not sold on Peter at all as a legitimate standard 'in any era' contender much less champ, but you don't need too many buyers to go far in the heavyweight division today.

When they were originally going to meet I couldn't see how Maskaev could win, but he has power..

6-5 pick-em with Peter having actually fought being the difference over an aging-rusting not so great guy to begin with.

I give Campbell a very good shot at his fight with Diaz, I haven't made up my mind yet.

prodigious1
03-04-2008, 11:26 PM
I think Peter has shown a recent pattern of fitness. He's certainly durable and at least he comes to fight. I really believe Peter's insolence cost him against McCline more than anything but that remains to be seen.

Maskaev is rugged and strong and has come to fight every time out as well. It's a pretty good physical match-up, isn't it? Prime vs prime, we might have got something to remember from these two.

Age, rust and overall wear will likely decide it. You're right.

prototypeofamodernmadman
03-05-2008, 04:12 AM
if not for Peter's extreme vulnerability shown in the McCline bout, everyone here would be picking Peter in a landslide, but..since he was rolling around on the canvas 3 times versus a no hoper, there is a lot of faith in Maskaev and his power, I don't buy it, Maskaev doesn't move well, is slow of hand and foot, throws the same mechanical and predictable, jab-right hand, one two, and has a very questionable chin, and I like the guy, I just see a ferocious and hungry Peter belting him out before he knows what hit him, I hope I'm wrong, I would like to see an action fight where both men visit the canvas, but, in boxing you hardly ever get what you want to see so , lets just hope Maskaev makes it out of the first round

diggity
03-05-2008, 10:18 AM
Both guys are very predictable & neither is necessarily the flash. Maskaev has one thing over Peter & that's experience. If Peter hasn't learned his most important lesson from McCline, he will be in trouble late in the fight.

hagler04
03-05-2008, 12:47 PM
I see Campbell winning a couple of rounds but ultimately Diaz's windmill attack wears him out. A younger Nate makes a more intriguing fight.

As for the main event, I originally predicted Oleg but now I just think Maskaev is too old and inactive to pull it off. He's been on the shelf so long he's practically retired.

diggity
03-06-2008, 04:08 PM
As for Diaz, I'm just not picking against him anymore. He may have the pop of a rice crispie but his stamina & workrate is just not human.

doomeddisciple
03-07-2008, 06:08 AM
AS I take this snippet from fight news - Maskaev 243, Peter 250!
Castillo at 147.5, must lose 7.5 lbs in 24 hrs
Oleg Maskaev and Sam Peter weighed in today in Cancun, Mexico in advance of their WBC heavyweight title clash on Saturday. Maskaev's weight of 243 lbs. was just 1/4 pound from his career high and five pounds more than he weighed when he defeated Hasim Rahman for the title in 2006. Peter's weight of 250 lbs. was the same as he weighed for his previous fight against Jameel McCline.


In my previous post in this thread regarding his "lean" look - I would offer to eat crow, but Apparently there are none left after Peter ate them all...

Overhand_Right
03-07-2008, 09:21 AM
Maskaev is on good form and a totally different to the guy who was on a low and losing after Kirk Johnson killed his momentum with 1 great left hook.

Peter has 1 KO in his last 6 fights and i think his power may be overhyped. His skills are crude enough for the oldboy to box sensible, overcome some rocky moments and win the decision. IMO.

GorDoom
03-07-2008, 02:39 PM
Zev is going to take a wll deserved break this week but fear not loyal members, CBZ stalwart Cliff Rold, Crold on the board, will step in & do the honors. He will also monitor the Maccarinelli v Haye bout & give us the results.

Per usual please keep all discussion of this card to this thread. Redundant threads will be deleted.

thanks,

GorDoom

apollack
03-07-2008, 04:39 PM
If Peter wants to win, he better take care of Oleg early, which he might do because Oleg's chin can be iffy against the punchers and Peter hits like a mack truck. However, Peter is pretty slow and one dimensional. If Oleg can survive the early rounds, he is a very live underdog because I personally think that he has much better skills than Sam and also better conditioning. X factor is how sharp Oleg will be given that he hasn't fought in a year and he has to be getting up there in age. Coach's advice to Oleg - move and box for 3 rounds, then set him up for that good straight right. Advice to Peter - jump on him early.



Campbell v. Diaz is intriguing. Diaz is a windup doll with phenomenal condition and activity level, hits hard enough to get respect or break people over time, and has been getting better. Campbell is the old vet who if sharp, can give anyone trouble. He definitely has a very nice right hand which he fires with good speed and timing, and is probably harder than any one shot of Diaz's. If he nails Juan often enough with it, can use his footwork to slow the pace, he has a shot. Trouble for Campbell is that Diaz sets such a blistering pace. Can Campbell nail Diaz hard enough and often enough to keep Juan off him?

prodigious1
03-07-2008, 04:47 PM
Juan's jab is underrated. Nate needs to use his own to throw it off and set up right hands up and down. I'm pulling for him.

I'm sticking with Peter by decision because of this weight. He might be too slow to KO Maskaev.

HE Grant
03-08-2008, 08:18 AM
Peter 250 .... Terrible ... athrow back to the Tubbs/Page/Witherspoon 80's ... even if he beats an old, shop worn Maskaev Peter is an under achieving disgrace ... I though after the second Toney fight he'd get it together but here he is, a poor man's David Tua ...

Crold1
03-08-2008, 10:47 PM
Lightweight Action

#1 Contender Juan Diaz (33-0, 17 KO, IBF/WBA/WBO titlist)
v.
Ring Magazine #5 Nate Campbell (31-5-1, 25 KO)

Fighters are making their way to the ring. Should be fun.

Campbell was talking trash at mid-ring...can he back it up? We're about to find out as the bell sounds for...

Round One
Campbell comes out firing to the body...Diaz begins connecting with short hooks on the inside in the second minute...Both men trade phone booth style down the stretch...Excellent first round.
Even

Round Two
Campbell maintaining his effort to match Diaz's pace...lands a hard right hand...Diaz fires back with some nice short hooks and drives Campbell top the ropes...more punches than I can describe.
Diaz 20-19

Round Three
Campbell backing off a little and looking for counter spots...two long lefts by Diaz...two rights by Cambell...then a left...two clean hooks from Diaz...Campbell fires back as Diaz slips.
Diaz 30-28

Got knocked off for a second...scored the fourth for Diaz. 40-37

Round Five
Fight slows for the first time with a flurry of action late...Diaz still busy but Campbell lands some of his best of the fight...close Campbell round.
Diaz 49-47

Round Six
During a torrent of action, Campbell headbutts Diaz and has a point deducted...cut isn't wide but extends across the eyelid...Another Campbell round has he landed the hardest stuff.
Diaz 58-57

I keep getting timed out and knocked off...eergh...scored seven and eight for Campbell

Even 76-76 through eight

Round Nine
Diaz holding on the inside and eating the right hand flush...Kellerman says he's in deep, deep trouble and that might be understatement...Diaz is just gassed...Campbell could get him out of here with the right outburst.
Campbell 86-85

Round Ten
Diaz tries to get something going but Campbell just punishes him with hard, nasty stuff...Diaz's corner may want to consider stopping this before the kid goes out on his shield.
Campbell 96-94

Round Eleven
What the hellllllll? Diaz's corner and the ref let him stay on his stool for an extra ten seconds...Diaz having his best round in a while as far as activity but Campbell just staying calm and firing between flurries...Hard round to call as Diaz looks much worse for wear but outworked Campbell in the round. Even
Campbell 106-104

Round Twelve
Rinse, reapeat...Diaz all arm punch, no snap...Campbell just raking when he lets his hands go. Should be an upset win for Campbell.
Campbell 116-113

LONG Wait for the scores...
Bill Clancy 116-111 Campbell
Rick Bays 114-113 Diaz
Joe Garcia 115-112 Campbell

WORST SCORE CARD READER/RING ANNOUNCER EVER btw...

evander
03-08-2008, 11:39 PM
Campbell just broke Diaz.

prototypeofamodernmadman
03-08-2008, 11:46 PM
wow, someone finally solved the Diaz puzzle, well, Diaz can just blame his performance on all of the Drama that occurred leading up to the fight.

Crold1
03-08-2008, 11:48 PM
He needs to blame Nate's early body work.

Crold1
03-08-2008, 11:57 PM
Now for the walk-out action

For the WBC Overweights belt

Ring #4 Oleg Maskaev (34-5, 26 KO)
v
Ring #2 Sam Peter (29-1, 22 KO)

Quick note...why is HBO allergic to saying that Chagaev is as good as anything else they've shown in this division on their air?

ROUND ONE
Maskaev is so slow he make ice melting in Alaska look like an action-packed activity...Peter plodding forward...Nothing happned...clearly these are Heavyweights. peter won because he threw like eight punches.
Peter 10-9

ROUND TWO
Lots of jabs...couple hooks...Maskaev right. Dull.
Peter 20-18

ROUND THREE
Maskaev hurt by a right hand...Peter flurries on the ropes but Maskaev covers well...Now Maskaev rocks Peter with a left...left right by Maskaev and Peter holds...Maskaev may have stolen that one back and my sarcasm decreases.
Peter 29-28

ROUND FOUR
Maskaev timing Peter well and tagging Peter with solid counters.
Even

ROUND FIVE
Peter tags Maskaev with a right...open scoring announces Peter as ahead...trade hard rights...feels like hours between punches...Maskaev lands a hard right and Peter fires back. Maskaev round.
Maskaev 48-47

ROUND SIX
Peter hurts Maskaev with a right...follow up of hard shots and Oleg is out on his feet. Ref steps in.

Peter TKO win.

hagler04
03-09-2008, 12:49 AM
WOW! Nate Campbell is my new favorite fighter. What a gutsy performance. I thought the 36 year old veteran would fade as Diaz looked his usual impressive, non-stop self, but Campbell used a great left jab up the center and crucial body work to slow the Baby Bull down. And that point taken off was completely bogus. Big credit to Campbell for showing the heart and conditioning to outgun the younger fireball. Not sure he can do a repeat vs Katsidis though (assuming he beats Casamayor).

As for the fatweights . . .well, whatever.

apollack
03-09-2008, 01:06 AM
Campbell v. Diaz

Great lightweight fight. A true championship battle. Ironically, Campbell won with superior defense. Both were very busy. Campbell was a bit better at pacing himself, selecting his moments, and placing and landing his shots. A lot of his punches were not thrown with the body behind them, and often were arm punches, but nevertheless, he landed very cleanly. You could see Juan's head give a little even on shots that didn't look very hard. Juan squares up and leans forward way too much. On the other hand, Juan seemed to be loading up more, but not landing solidly very often. Nate dipped and rolled and turned and smothered very well. I thought Juan got mentally distressed and broken after the cut opened.

Juan's cutman needs to be fired. First of all, a good cut man should have all of the solutions available. He should put the coagulating solutions into the cut as soon as possible, so that you have almost the full minute for them to work. That was not done. Also, the cut should be held together along with application of direct pressure for the full minute.

Second, I totally disagree wtih the philosophy of rubbing on a puffy eye. Rubbing on tender skin only aggravates it more. I advocate direct pressure to the puffy area, without the rubbing.

Peter v. Maskaev

I completely disagree with the whole HBO philosophy that there is now some sort of mandate for Vladimir Klitschko to fight Peter. I do not think Peter is much if any better than he was when they fought the first time. I think Steward is hyping Peter so that when Vlad beats him yet again he'll get more credit. Vlad beat him the first time, and I don't see anything new that makes me think the result will be any different. If anything, I think Vlad wins even more easily the second time, possibly by knockout. Peter's defense and chin is quesitonable at best. He is slow as molasses, keeps a really slow pace, gets fatigued quickly. He's basically a strong clubber. Sure he has a puncher's chance against Vlad, but that's about it.

hagler04
03-09-2008, 01:15 AM
Peter v. Maskaev

I completely disagree with the whole HBO philosophy that there is now some sort of mandate for Vladimir Klitschko to fight Peter. I do not think Peter is much if any better than he was when they fought the first time. I think Steward is hyping Peter so that when Vlad beats him yet again he'll get more credit. Vlad beat him the first time, and I don't see anything new that makes me think the result will be any different. If anything, I think Vlad wins even more easily the second time, possibly by knockout. Peter's defense and chin is quesitonable at best. He is slow as molasses, keeps a really slow pace, gets fatigued quickly. He's basically a strong clubber. Sure he has a puncher's chance against Vlad, but that's about it.

I completely agree. I think Peter looks even worse now. He's basically a fat Jumbo Cummings. I don't even really care about the Heavyweights anymore, but the only fight I'd give a hoot about is Klitschko vs the Valuev-Chagaev rematch winner.

Ron Lipton
03-09-2008, 01:28 AM
When you come into the ring to fight Peter or anyone for that matter, you come to destroy them, unless you are the reincarnation of Gentleman Jim.

When someone is trying to tear you head off, you hurt them back EVERY CHANCE YOU GET. When Sam's ribs are exposed BEFORE the referee says stop punching and break, you HAMMER HIM WITH EVERYTHING YOU GOT.

This guy did not want to fight him HARD, HARD, HARD. Then when you do not fight someone hard, then you LOSE, LOSE, LOSE, and so does every other fool who put money into your chance to WIN.

The absolute worst, most boring division in boxing.

As to Diaz and Campbell, I congratulate Nate, I applaud Diaz's courage, the ref fouled up in the point deduction as usual, and they can both kiss the ground that Ike Williams and Beau Jack are not around. Absolute boys in boxing trunks. If you think I am looking through rose tinted glasses watch the films.

Diaz is a very brave, honest workman who comes to fight but with fat hanging over the sides of his trunks and with not one single muscle developed in is whole body. Get modern or suffer the consequences by losing to a grandfather like tonight. Sorry but its the truth.

Thomas44
03-09-2008, 03:28 AM
I enjoyed both fights .

Campbell shows he can do more with his head than just think . I'm not so sure he would do so well in a rematch . Those headbutts and the cut affected Diaz , still a gritty win for an old lightweight.

Any time Maskaev is fighting you know a KO is possible... one way or the other. Considering some of the poor heavyweight fights I've watched in the last several years old Oleg has been better than most. He might be slow with poor defense but he is a skilled pro and knows how to finish . I like watching him fight... he won me over in KO-ing Rahman twice! :D

Peter is durable and hits like a wrecking ball so it looks like we are going to see him well into the future.

HE Grant
03-09-2008, 07:46 AM
I completely disagree about Peter. I was prepared to see a fat, sloppy fighter but was very surprised.

Last night I saw the best Peter I have ever seen. He build was thick but very solid and strong. You could almost make out some stomach abs. He was very disciplined and patient. He fired a pretty decent, consistant, stiff, hard jab. He paced himself. He demonstrated some very improved defensive skills, ducking and slipping shots. He threw combinations and proved that his power is legitimate. It appears to me that he pulled together the experience gained from the Toney fights with the awareness of the dangers of getting sloppy from the McCline bout to become a focused, dangerous fighter.

I like and respect Vlad but know that he has a weak chin. Not average but less than average for any heavyweight champion I can remember seeing perhaps ever. I cannot imagine him getting up seven times against Ingo like a Patterson did. I feel that Peters is highly improved from their first fight and that Vlad is the same, even a bit older. I think Peter is definately the man out there with the best shot of beating Vlad and it is far more than a punchers chance. He proved last night he is a better conditioned , more seasoned, more confident and experienced fighter ..I see him applying strong pressure to Vlad and getting through ...

apollack
03-09-2008, 10:06 AM
Look, Peter fought an old, inactive guy who was just about as slow and slow paced as him, who in the past has had trouble lasting the distance with punchers. The fight means very little. There are at least 4-5 heavyweights who right now would embarrass Peter.

gluelicker
03-09-2008, 10:24 AM
I was having troubles with my webcast feed, so all I saw of the Peter-Maskaev tilt was the sixth and deciding round... and I was appalled by how slow and how oafish the action was, and how telegraphed the punches were. It was a club smoker prettified as a title fight. Peter looked much sharper IMO against Toney in January 07. I think Wlad is a fraud for his irrepressible clutching and holding but at present Chagaev and Valuev are the only two who I see standing a decent chance with him, and maybe Povetkin and Haye within a year. If Gomez and Thompson were more active or given a chance to be more active I'd allow them a slight chance too... but the Peter that slogged and winged shots last night, no.

For those of us who clung to the slightest illusion that the HW division was salvageable, middle January-early March offered many bouts promising to sort things out... and now we are left with the sad reality of a division even more barren than, say, the bad old days of Brewster-Byrd-Ruiz-perpetually injured VKlit.

kikibalt
03-09-2008, 11:03 AM
Lets cancel the heavyweight division.

prototypeofamodernmadman
03-09-2008, 11:19 AM
I just caught the 6th round of Maskaev-Peter on youtube, man...both guys looked completely gassed, Maskaev especially so as he was throwing wild, slow punches at the air, he also had prominent love handles, Peter was gasping for air
and, during his fight ending flurry, mixed in quite a few of his trademark blows to the back of the head,

with all of this heavyweight mediocrity, maybe David Haye could make some noise in the division, I caught that fight on youtube just now as well, to be fair to Enzo, the ref screwed that up for him, he was clearly knocked down by a right hand, and instead of ordering Haye to a neutral corner, he let Haye rush in and smother Enzo in the corner, scoring a double knockdown essentially, but, Haye had him figured out big and was timing him easily,

since the Haye-Macca fight started being hyped I watched a lot of Haye's bouts
on youtube, sure, with the exception of Mormeck he was fighting bums, but he's got serious power, he appears like he might do well at heavyweight, but something inside me thinks he could also be the next Audley Harrison, We'll find out.

evander
03-09-2008, 12:27 PM
Lets cancel the heavyweight division.


LOL!! I'm with ya on that.

GorDoom
03-09-2008, 01:03 PM
I have to say I'm impressed by the board's restraint after this fight. Usually after a heavyweight stops an opponent, the band wagon creaks & groans from the weight of all the newly born syncophants piling on.

Instead, y'all have been burned enough by all the "Next Big Thing's" that a little caution is used before hurling common sense to the winds & proclaiming whatever lug as the newest, shinest, "Chosen One".

A Tip O' The Fedora to the membership!

GorDoom

HE Grant
03-09-2008, 01:45 PM
I personally think people in general are too tough on the heavyweights ... other than a few exceptional fighters of the past eighty or so years (I'm passing on the legends before that) the heavyweights are always ripped to pieces ... From the Patterson and Ingo days people said they sucked ... Liston/Ali/Frazier/Foreman were a great series of years but then you had Holmes who most gave very little credit to as a champion ... the rest of the eighties were slammed as garbage. Tyson came and went and his greatness with him by way of Douglas ... Holyfield was viewed as a warrior that was too small, couldn't punch and made his bones fighting fossils .. Bowe a fat, lazy guy , Lewis a boring, defensive minded china chin and so on ... The Klit Brothers have been slammed here ruthessly ...

In Marciano's day he was respected but clearly never thought of as a great ... neither were Charles or Walcott ... Dempsey was great, Tunney lucky ... the pre-Louis 1930's guys were nothing ...

My point is that in the entire history of the heavyweight division post Dempsey (who was hated as champion), 1926 - 2008 , a span of eighty two years, you have about thirty years (Louis 12 years/Liston to Ali 2, 18 years) when people were not claiming how ordinary the heavyweight division was ..

Now I'm not saying a good deal of this is not true, I'm just keeping perspective ...

10-8
03-09-2008, 02:11 PM
I think the success of Bowe, Lewis and to some degree old Foreman led heavyweights to believe bigger is better and they started coming into fights weighing more and more.

The best heavyweights of the past 40 years who have also given us great fights have been Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson and Holyfield. These are guys that still had the speed, skills, co-ordination, athleticism, and stamina to fight at a good pace while still being 'big' men.

All these guys at their best weighed under 220 lbs.

Maybe we need to create a new division of superheavyweight for those weighing above 220.

A 220 lb heavyweight limit might inspire some guys to get in shape (think of the wasted career of David Tua) instead of competing in a super-heavyweight division against slow motion ponderous fat men.

Crold1
03-09-2008, 02:17 PM
Ron:
I agree that there were no Williams's or Jack's in the ring but is that a fair standard? Every division isn't ruled by ATG's of HOFers all the time. I saw two skilled, willful lightweight put on a solid fight. That they are the best of an okay class at 135 right now, and that the division has stepped down a bit from a few years ago with prime Castillo, Corrales etc. isn't their fault. They fought for their checks. :)

diggity
03-09-2008, 02:41 PM
Great performance by Campbell. I am so glad someone finally committed to body shots on Diaz. I knew Campbell was more talented but I never would have guessed he could stay with Diaz's tempo or exceed it.

I thought Diaz looked fatter than ever tonight as it was obvious his lovehandles were screaming to get out of his trunks. I also though his punches lacked the usual snap they did from the get-go. Overall I thought it was an off night for Diaz between his condition & how he was affected by the cut, but you cannot take anything away from Campbell.


Not that it was any surprise but Maskaev was something right out of 28 Days Later. He did ok for what he had left in the tank but that's about it. At one point he had Peter badly hurt. I'm not sure if he knew or was just too gassed to do anything about it. Despite personifiying molasses, I was surprised how easily Maskaev was able to hit Peter. I thought Peter showed patience and was more committed to the jab but he has yet to show the same sharpness he did in the Toney rematch. Not that it was a total surprise but I thought both guys were unusually tired for such a short & inactive fight.

Peter still has some work to do if he is to beat Wlad. I also think Peter is starting to fight like someone who is a lot more interested in protecting his chin. Good for him, bad for us.

TKO Tom
03-09-2008, 04:40 PM
Peter is just too heavy at 250 pounds. He's so fucking big he can hardly walk - he sort of waddles. Bad balance, poor technique...what more can I say?

He'd be much better if he were 230.

Peter has power and strength, but that's about it. I don't even think he takes that great a shot.

HE Grant
03-09-2008, 04:53 PM
I'm going to rewatch the fight but I really did not find Peter at all gassed. As far as Mas goes, he was just as good as he was when he fought Rachman. He never was a speed demon. That said, I agree that Peter would be faster and have better stamina at 235 or so but it appears it is simply not going to happen. Like Tua and so many others, he simply lacks the diet discipline.

As far as the superheavyweights go, starting with Bowe and Lewis the trend emerged ... I remember the huge hype when Lewis fought Michael Grant, as if we entered another era...even shorter guys like Rachman and McCall started to come in at 235 plus ... the Bruno's who were so juiced the same... it really was rare for a fighter to dominate at a smaller weight. Evander Holyfield fought much of his reign at 212 to 218, basically the size of Ali and just an inch or so shorter. He was always considered a small man but his amazing ability to take a punch along with his other skills kept him right in there ... look how tiny the other guy who lost to Klit jr. looked a week ago and he was 6'2" ..

Ron Lipton
03-09-2008, 05:07 PM
Ron:
I agree that there were no Williams's or Jack's in the ring but is that a fair standard? Every division isn't ruled by ATG's of HOFers all the time. I saw two skilled, willful lightweight put on a solid fight. That they are the best of an okay class at 135 right now, and that the division has stepped down a bit from a few years ago with prime Castillo, Corrales etc. isn't their fault. They fought for their checks. :)

Reply:

You are right of course, they earned their dough and are doing the best they can as bravely as they can. I respect that very much, believe me.

I spend a lot of time watching great champions in action while trading DVD and tapes of great fighters. The word champion means many things, just as to the actual power and skill level at lightweight, I am perhaps ruined forever having boxed with Carlos Ortiz and having met Ike Williams in Trenton.
The level at which Duran at lightweight executed his stuff makes the word champion mean something different to me, thats all.

I enjoyed the fight, dragged my son in to watch with me, and it was fun.
Like I said with no disrepsect meant to them, they are truly lucky as "Champions" not to have those other guys around or they would be shot down very very quickly.

As to Sam Peter, quite honestly, yes he was in better shape than usual but his skill level is just a big strong amateur. Honest to God, the division is so bleak. He did look stronger and he is a big THICK strong guy, but so was Abe Simon, you know what I'm saying.

The state of TALENT in the division is bleak. It makes you realize how exciting and skilled Ali and all the rest were. You know when guys like Frank Baltazar and me and I am sure a few others too, see this kind of skill level, it does not give us that excited fight night feeling anymore in this division.

When Hatton was matched with Mayweather, or DLH against Hopkins, it generates a gut level hunger in the afficionado to see the fight. This kind of match with Sam and Maskaev is K-rations to a hungry soldier in the field.

Ali v Frazier was filet mignon, thats all I mean.

prototypeofamodernmadman
03-09-2008, 05:35 PM
Maybe Peter's power is overrated, Maskaev has been Kayoed many times, and each time he was knocked off of his feet, down and out and sleeping, Peter hit him with his best shots as Maskaev was right there to be hit, Maskaev was badly hurt but never close to hitting the floor, if Lance Whitaker and Corrie Sanders could drop him, what does that say about Peter's power?

HE Grant
03-09-2008, 05:36 PM
I'm with you there. I cannot remember the last time I was excited about a heavyweight title bout...even going back to Lewis/Holyfield I felt both, especially Evander, were old then ...maybe Holyfield/Bowe 1 and before that Tyson/Spinks and before that maybe Holmes/Cooney ...

hagler04
03-09-2008, 05:54 PM
It's not the weight, HWs these days are just plain lazy and don't do their road work. Peter is not 6'2 as HBO likes to say he's a smidgen over 6 feet and the man is 10 lbs heavier than 6'6 Klitschko, it's just sad. Toney was an old fat super middleweight and he schooled Peter (1st fight). I was watching Leotis Martin-Jimmy Ellis earlier . . .go ahead and let Peter and company have the 40-50 lb advantage, I'd confidently pick either one of those guys to not only beat the two Heavyweights we saw last night, but to knock them out, before the 6th round.

Yes the HWs have always had their detractors but seriously, I believe this Heavyweight division is just below the Cruiserweights of the 80s and early 90s in terms of shallowness, in all of boxing history.

Ron Lipton
03-09-2008, 07:02 PM
It's not the weight, HWs these days are just plain lazy and don't do their road work. Peter is not 6'2 as HBO likes to say he's a smidgen over 6 feet and the man is 10 lbs heavier than 6'6 Klitschko, it's just sad. Toney was an old fat super middleweight and he schooled Peter (1st fight). I was watching Leotis Martin-Jimmy Ellis earlier . . .go ahead and let Peter and company have the 40-50 lb advantage, I'd confidently pick either one of those guys to not only beat the two Heavyweights we saw last night, but to knock them out, before the 6th round.

Yes the HWs have always had their detractors but seriously, I believe this Heavyweight division is just below the Cruiserweights of the 80s and early 90s in terms of shallowness, in all of boxing history.

Reply:

I agree 100% Hagler

timayres
03-09-2008, 07:22 PM
I totally agree as well. I couldn't help but think of the quickness, skill, and work rate of past heavies while watching these 'closer to average sized' types, meaning not over 6-4. The bar has been lowered over the years for these guys, eroding more and more.

But so very impressed with the class of Diaz in the post fight interview. First loss, a macho slugfest with the guy talking to you after each round, cut eye coming out of a clinch; no matter how it was caused so many of today's fighters would have been pulling a dozen excuses out of their pocket, but not Diaz. "Couldn't get my jab going", he says and then salutes the crowd with an eye swollen shut. Wow, what class, what a throwback, a true man.

Tim

timayres
03-09-2008, 07:28 PM
Lets cancel the heavyweight division.

Reminds me of the sportswriter the day after the Patriot-Eagle Super Bowl, commenting on the half time show- "I'm just waiting for Paul McCartney to break up."

diggity
03-10-2008, 12:06 AM
Oh yeah...for the 1% of the population that held out hope for the unveiling of the NEW Ruiz, you can forget it. John "the quite unwatchable man" Ruiz did his normal number scoring a wide margin UD on an apparently baffled Jameel "not this time" McCline. McCline fought as if he's never suffered through a Ruiz fight in his life. He allowed himself to be smothered all night as Ruiz did what he does best. I saw about half of the fight in fast forward but each round was no different than the next. Ruiz maybe threw a few more punches & clinched 2 or 3 times less but that was about it & McCline adds yet another loss to his record. Can someone please remind me when he last won a meaningful fight?

prodigious1
03-10-2008, 04:42 AM
I'm gonna go with Shannon Briggs whenever that was.

ShawnTheBleeder
03-12-2008, 12:05 AM
I say the best way for us to kill off the heavyweight division is to unify and officially endorse John "The Quiet Man" Ruiz as our guy in the division.

As for Peter, he and Oleg did themselves no favors in following Campbell-Diaz. And Peter's best performance was the rematch with Toney, IMO.
Shawn

langford
03-14-2008, 02:15 AM
Lets cancel the heavyweight division. Absolutely. This may be an all time low for the heavweights, worse than Carnera, Carnera actually had a defense and could go 15 rounds. The current crop actually do seem like sumo wrestlers whom lay on each other and ocassionally throw some punches; only minus the balance. A throw back to the pre tyson chubby brigade.

dnahar
03-14-2008, 04:15 AM
I hate to pile on, but the heavyweights are noticeably slower than the better-conditioned HWs of yesteryear and less likely to engage, a double whammy if there ever was one. I think once you get over 200lbs, even 20-40lbs doesn't mean much if it means you have to telegraph every punch and can't throw combinations. Is it too much to ask to see some combinations from these fighters? Klitschko avoiding contact and Peter throwing one at a time drove us crazy at the bar. My friend and I are watch these fights and then thank the lucky stars we have lighter weight action fights on these cards. I have a hard time making the pro-boxing vs. MMA arguments when watching these fights.

Deepak