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View Full Version : Most Demanding Calendar Year Based on Quality of Opposition



hawk5ins
03-14-2008, 04:11 PM
I nominate the following:

Carmen Basilio 1953: 8 Bouts. Opponents included: Ike Williams, Billy Graham twice and Kid Gavilan. 4 bouts agianst 3 hall of fame fighters.

Harry Greb 1923: 17 Bouts. Opponents included: Johnny WIlson, Tommy Loughran 4 times, Gene Tunney Twice. 6 Bouts agianst 2 HOFers

Stanley Ketchal 1909: 7 Bouts. Opponents Included: Phil. Jack O'Brien twice, Billy Papke, and Jack Johnson. 4 Bouts agianst 3 HOFers.

Henry Armstrong 1938: 14 Bouts. Opponents Included: Chalky Wright, Baby Arizmendi, Barney Ross and Lou Ambers. 4 bouts agianst 4 HOFers. Also defeated Ceferino Garcia, future Middle Weight Champ whom Hank would Draw agianst (dubiously) in 1940.

Sam Langford 1916: 14 Bouts. Opponents Included: Harry Wills 4 times, Sam McVey 4 times, Joe Jeannette and Bill Tate. 9 Bouts agianst 3 HOFers.

I know there are many other worthy candidates. I just wanted to get this started.

Send them on in.

Hawk

hawk5ins
03-14-2008, 04:45 PM
Fritzie Zivic 1943: 13 bouts. Opponents Included: Beau Jack Twice, Jake Lamotta 3 Times, Bob Montgomery. 6 bouts agianst 3 HOFers. Unfortunately for Fritzie, he went 0-6 in those bouts.

Tiger Flowers 1926: 12 bouts. Opponents included: Harry Greb Twice, Maxie Rosenbloom and Mickey Walker. 4 Bouts agianst 3 HOFers.

Hawk

phlboxarc
03-15-2008, 08:15 AM
WILLIS "SHORTY" HOGUE had a very tough 1941, engaging in 15 fights W-12, L-2, D-1. Beating such legends as Archie Moore, Eddie Booker and Lloyd Marshall.
Shorty was 1 and 0 against Moore, 1-1 versus Marshall and 1-1-1 battling Booker. He also scored wins over such other rated toughies as Bobby Pacho, Johnny Barbara, Gene Buffalo and Andre Jessurun.
Nine days after the new year he was fighting Charley Burley. A pretty rugged 365 day period I would say.

Sharkey
03-15-2008, 11:10 AM
1919 for Greb is very formidable: Undefeated for the year with wins against: Mike McTigue
Battling Levinsky (4 wins)
Bill Brennan (4 wins)
Mike Gibbons
Leo Houck (3)
Billy Miske
Chuck Wiggins (2)
Soldier Bartfield
Willie Meehan among others.

In 1922 he beat Loughran twice, Tunney, Tommy Gibbons and Wiggins, among others. (Including Jeff Smith)

1921 he has 21 fights and goes 18-0-3. Among notables beaten: Weinert, Wiggins (a win and two draws), Norfolk (win) and two wins over Jack Renault.

1918 saw him beat Miske, Win twice and draw with Bartfield, beat Gunboat Smith, Mike McTigue, Al McCoy, Levinsky again, Dillon and lose to Mike ODowd.

hawk5ins
03-15-2008, 01:19 PM
Let someone else play, Sharks.

Hawk

Sharkey
03-15-2008, 01:37 PM
but but but.... I only had one post on this thread!! You went twice.

I'd imagine some professional opponent (Mouse Strauss?) would have a veritable who's who of their own time spanning a few divisions north and south of their own fighting weight.

Is there some emphasis of how one does against the comp?

PS: hall of famers are nice but I think Harry's 1919 for example is better than Carmen's year or even Hank's, for a few reasons.

hawk5ins
03-15-2008, 02:01 PM
For Greb!

He gets what, 5 seperate years to choose from?

HA!

Hawk

Sharkey
03-16-2008, 11:10 AM
Well, SRL must have many years as well... given the comp he faced.

MATTDONNELLON
03-16-2008, 12:44 PM
1896 Peter Maher fought Fitz, Choynsky,(2) O'Donnell(2) and Slavin
1902 Jack O'Brien fought 32 times including Maher(2) Walcott Young Peter Jackson Charlie McKeever Hart Choynsky Cole Bonner and a host of similar level fighters.
1900 Kid McCoy had 6 fights, Maher, Choynsky, Creedon, Tommy Ryan, Bonner and Corbett.

sweet_scientist
03-17-2008, 07:38 AM
Don't think I can top any of the ones already here, but a couple worth mentioning are:


Joe Gans 1904: Jack Blackburn, Joe Walcott, Dave Holly and Jimmy Britt.

Joe Gans 1903: Sam Langford, Dave Holly (x2) and Jack Blackburn.

Benny Leonard 1917: Jack Britton, Johnny Kilbane, Freddie Welsh, Richie Mitchell, Frankie Callahan and Patsy Kline.

Tony Canzoneri 1933: Barney Ross (x2), Kid Chocolate, Wes Ramey, Frankie Klick, Battling Shaw and Cleto Locatelli.

hawk5ins
03-17-2008, 09:00 AM
Tweaking me on past arguments!

Oy that hoit!

Oh and how they fared is not a prerequisite IMO.

(See the Zivic inclusion.)

Hawk

Boxscribe
03-18-2008, 04:36 AM
Holman Williams - any year from 42 to 45 (or even 46).

Surf-Bat
03-18-2008, 02:43 PM
SOLDIER BARTFIELD in 1919 fought:

Harry Greb
Mike Gibbons(2 times)
Billy Papke
Mike O'Dowd
Benny Leonard(3 times)
Mick King(Australian Middleweight champion)
Augie Ratner

in 1918:

Greb(3 times)
Ted Kid Lewis(3 times)
Jack Britton(4 times)

hawk5ins
03-19-2008, 09:41 AM
I see so many entrants here and it just makes me laugh when the past gets dismissed for fighters facing inferior competition and the sport has evolved and is superior today due to advances in diet, nutritional supplements and excercize.

You always here the question asking how a fighter from the past would do today as if they would be out of their league.

But I think a more pertinent question would be: How would a fighter from today, fare in the past having to keep up the schedule, competition and "conditions" of the time, in order to survive and put food on the table?

Makes you wonder.

Hawk

Enswell
03-19-2008, 01:53 PM
Battling Levinsky fought these guys in 1914.

Thirty-seven in all. There are many other demanding years as well.


Tom Daly New York, NY KO 2
Jan 3 Jim Coffey Philadelphia, Pa ND 6
Jan 5 Bob McAllister New York, NY ND 10
Jan 13 Dan "Porky" Flynn New York, NY ND 10
Jan 19 Jack Connors New York, NY ND 10
Jan 20 Jack Keating Bridgeport, Ct ND 10
Jan 22 Bob Kenny Allentown, Pa TK 3
Jan 27 Alfred "Soldier" Kearns New York, NY ND 10
Jan 31 Tony Ross Philadelphia, Pa ND 6
Feb 6 Tom "Bearcat" McMahon New York, NY ND 10
Mar 3 Fred McKay Brooklyn, NY ND 10
Mar 7 Jack Keating Brooklyn, NY ND 10
Mar 9 Jim Coffey New York, NY ND 10
Mar 14 Tim O'Neill Philadelphia, Pa ND 6
Mar 17 "Sailor" Fred Fritts Brooklyn, NY ND 10
Mar 23 Bob Moha Milwaukee, Wi ND 10
Apr 14 Jack Dillon Butte, Mt L 12
-Light Heavyweight Championship of the World
May 19 Carl Lewis Brooklyn, NY ND 10
May 29 Jack Dillon Indianapolis, In ND 10
Jun 6 Jack Davies Bronx, NY KO 7
Jun 26 "Wild" Bert Kenny Far Rockaway, NY ND 10
Jun 30 Charley Weinert Brooklyn, NY ND 10
Jul 21 Dan "Porky" Flynn Brooklyn, NY ND 10
Jul 31 Jack Driscoll Far Rockaway, NY ND 10
Aug 18 "Sailor" Fred Fritts Brooklyn, NY ND 10
Aug 19 Bartley Madden New York, NY ND 10
Aug 31 Jack Nevins Far Rockaway, NY KO 2
Sep 18 George "One-Round" Davis Buffalo, NY ND 10
Oct 9 Ed "Gunboat" Smith New York, NY ND 10
Oct 20 "Fireman" Jim Flynn Brooklyn, NY ND 10
Oct 30 "Sailor" Fred Fritts New York, NY ND 10
Oct 31 Terry Kellar Bronx, NY ND 10
Nov 2 Neil McCue Philadelphia, Pa KO 4
-Some sources report 11/03/14
Nov 5 Frank Mantell Marieville, RI D 12
-Some sources report "Providence, RI"
Nov 21 Zulu Kid Brooklyn, NY ND 10
Nov 26 Tom McCarty Brooklyn, NY ND 10
Dec 25 Dan "Porky" Flynn Brooklyn, NY ND 10

MATTDONNELLON
03-20-2008, 10:00 AM
Hell of a record for Levinsky and one could do likewise for Dillon.

hawk5ins
03-20-2008, 03:25 PM
I was actually focusing more on quality than quantity.

Though for someone like Greb, you had years with both.

Again, looking at this more from a "# of Excelent, great and all time greats" faced in a single calendar year than "# of bouts" fought in a single calendar year.

Hawk

Enswell
03-21-2008, 11:20 AM
1918 was another demanding year for Levinsky. Man, Dempsey, and Greb in the same year!



1918
Jan 15 "K.O." Bill Brennan Boston, Ma D 12
May 24 Jim Coffey New York, NY ND 6
May 27 Bartley Madden Bridgeport, Ct D 15
-Some sources report "W 15"
Jun 6 Jim Coffey Buffalo, NY ND 6
Jun 17 Charley Weinert Jersey City, NJ ND 8
Jul 20 Bartley Madden Atlantic City, NJ ND 8
Aug 6 Harry Greb Philadelphia, Pa ND 6
Aug 15 Billy Miske Brooklyn, NY EX 4
Aug 26 Clay Turner Jersey City, NJ ND 8
Nov 6 Jack Dempsey Philadelphia, Pa LK 3
Dec 25 Leo Houck Lancaster, Pa ND 6

mike
03-21-2008, 12:25 PM
all the above --wow. how about great, great, years of fighters from sixties on--or maybe not.

hawk5ins
03-21-2008, 03:25 PM
has been diminished with the age of television and larger purses being introduced over the past 30 or so years.

Sugar Ray Leonard as great as he was never approaches anything like the aforementioned calendar years.

The closest he comes would be facing Benitez once and Duran twice within a span of 365 days and add to it Davey Boy Greene. Not a calendar year as the others, but an actual 365 day span.

And as tough as that comp was during that timeframe, it still pales in comparison to those already mentioned.

I can forever be labled an "80's homer", yet even I'm cognizant (NOW!) that anything in the past 30 or 40 years simply does not compare as far as demanding competition, from the fighters and years previously mentioned.

Doesn't mean I'm going to force The Greatness of SRL to take a back seat to every great from 50 years and back. But for the purposes of this topic, nothing on his resume comes close in comparison.

Hawk

Surf-Bat
03-23-2008, 02:52 PM
JOHNNY DUNDEE 1914:

Freddie Welsh
Willie Ritchie
Rocky Kansas
(all lightweight champions)
Joe Shugrue(2 times)
Pal Moore
George KO Chaney
Joe Mandot
Mexican Joe Rivers
(all TOP contenders)


TOMMY LOUGHRAN 1923:

Harry Greb(FOUR bouts!)
Mike McTigue(twice)
Jeff Smith(twice)
(all were champions or title claimants)
Jimmy Delaney
Roland Todd
Ted Moore
(all were top contenders)

hawk5ins
03-24-2008, 02:26 AM
Loughran and Greb years are almost interchangable as each was fighting the other multiple times and thus BOTH need to get the high grade years!

Hawk

hawk5ins
01-23-2009, 10:18 AM
That I began this thread PRIOR to my reading and the actual publication of Mike Silver's book, the Arc of Boxing.

Given that we know Silver reads our site (He credits CBZ in his book) I want to take partial credit for Chapter 4 of his book!

Deserved or not.

Hawk