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View Full Version : Lil' Klit vs, Thompson Results & Discussion 7/12/08



GorDoom
07-12-2008, 12:57 PM
Wladimir Klitscko Sucks (God, I LOVE that handle!) has volunteered to cover the fight for us. I actually think he's the perfect guy to do it. & with a handle like his I'm sure we can expect a COMPLETELY unbiased report.

LOL!

Anyways, as always please keep all discussion of this fight to this thread. Redundant threads will be deleted.

I wonder what the over/under is on Wlad throwing a right hand before the 5th round?

GorDoom

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 04:55 PM
Good afternoon folks, we are awaiting the boxers to enter the ring.

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 05:09 PM
The Star Spangeled Banner was performed on a fucking Tuba, and the Ukraine anthem on a trumpet. Feels like a funeral not a fight -very weird.

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 05:12 PM
thompson looks confident, hopefully he won't lay down like Austin. Introductions are now over.

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 05:17 PM
Klitschko's hairline appears to be receeding badly.

1st Round starts:
Thompson jabbing, Klitschko sizing him up and firing the 1-2, then clinching. Thompson looks like hes not impressed. WK pawing like he always does and backing up and clinching when it works. Thompson lands a beutiful straight left that WK takes. Now WK clinching and leaning in. No poise. WK lands to the body and then lands a right, Thompson takes it. WK throwing a 1-2 then clinching. Tompson wants to fight! Tompson much taller than I thought he was, no wlands a left and is constandly pressuring him.

Thompsons round.

WKS

GorDoom
07-12-2008, 05:21 PM
I just moved & don't have my sattelite hooked up so I can't actually see the fight but from what WKS described it sounds like Lil' Klit might actually be in the ring with a live body that actually has a pulse.

GorDoom

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 05:21 PM
Round2:

Thompson went down, appeared to hurt his ankle or something, Cortez called it a slip. WK wants to make it a MMA fight. Wladimir showing aggressiveness which is a nice change, he feels like he has TT hurt. decent stuff from WK, throwing lot's of rights that are landing, but TT is taking them. Cortez is an asshole. WK cut above the right eye, from TT's punches, and TT is cut too, from WK's constant headbutting. WK is clinching relentlesley. Good drama.

This reminds me of the Touch of Sleep fight.

Even round,

WKS

tedsares
07-12-2008, 05:22 PM
d

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 05:26 PM
Round three:

TT starts aggressively, WK running like a fucking bitch. Throwing ineffective punches that the crowds is jizzing itself over. TT more controlled and complete, and relaxed. TT is a natural right hander, lampley reveals, though he fights south paw. Cortez geting in the way as usual. WK unloading with stupid punches that do no damage. WKs cut appears to be under control, TT's is still bleeing a big more,
Replays reveal that WK's cut was caused by a punch.

GorDoom
07-12-2008, 05:26 PM
Ted:

Yeah, he's been with us for going on 2 years now. I've never dialogued with him but I've always loved his snarky 'tude. & when he volunteered to cover this fight I said to myself, "How fucking perfect is that, or what?"

GorDoom

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 05:30 PM
Roun4:

Lederman has it 2-1 klitschko, and i disagree. He points out the ring is Huge.

The entire crowd is white people.

TT lands a good overhand right, but K fighting back well. He doesn't have the scared rabbit look hes had in the past, a nice change. TT talking trash to WK and calling him a bitch. WK lands a goot 1-2 that stops TT in his tracks. Great bodyshots by TT! WK shakes it off, but his lats are red. TT stalking. Merchant acknowledges that WK is a shitty body puncher.

Thompsons round. I see this as one sided but competitive.

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 05:33 PM
Round 5!

TT using his lanky arms and long reach to pepper WK rom afar, WK's mouth is wide open. I think it's a matter of time before TT lands the goodnight punch, or i hope. WK is measureing TT, which is illegal, though Cortez does nothing. TT bnging to the body, putting money in the bank. WK bothered by TTs awkward style. Thompson is 6 foot 5, lampley says, just as tall as WK. TT banging to the body again, great work in this round by TT, his best round since the first. Academic.

TT's round,

WKS

tedsares
07-12-2008, 05:34 PM
[

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 05:38 PM
The corner is pitiful, seems liek a pep talk from Stewart.

Round six:
Lampley says klitschko is landing harder punches, and i don't agree. TT starts the sixth with more body work, WK misses a left hook badly. TT has found a home with the body of WK. WK lands a good right that snaps TT head back. TT patient, and relaxed, and throws another body punch that lands. Now bashing WK's head, but WK taking it well. WK clinches not once, but twice. Again. TT wants to fight. Goot left to the chin by TT, WK ansewers with a right that the crowd wets themselves over. TT takes it well.

Close round,

Replays are very generous to WK, he lands well.

WKS

kikibalt
07-12-2008, 05:40 PM
They suck, they suck!!!

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 05:42 PM
Round 7:

Lederman has it 5-1 Klitschko, which i think is a stretch. I have TT ahead.

WK starting strong, though breathing hard. TT is laing on the ropes. WK's comfort level increasing, though TT still banging to the body. TT holding up the guard well, WK looking at the clock! WK picking his spots and being more effective this round, TT happy to counterpunch. Blood coming from TTs right eye again.

First convincing round WK has won,

WKS

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 05:47 PM
ROund 8:

Stewart convincing WK that TT will now 'fall apart,' again seems like a peptalk.

LL thinks TT took the last round off. WK aggressive which is nice. WK loose and relaxed now, landing strait rights. If tT had power this would be over, he just has none. Good jab by TT, but this was unfortunately WKs round.

WKS

GorDoom
07-12-2008, 05:49 PM
Frank:

Their Heavyweights. Of COURSE they suck.But our reporter, Wladimir Klitschko Sucks sure doesn't. He's good.

GorDoom

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 05:51 PM
round (

Compubox shows that TT is landing more, but lampley shruggs it off as 'ineffective'. Cortez fixing the tap on TT's gloves. Lampley and LL are suggesting that TT needs to start a brawl. WK shakes off a few punches that TT lands. Both guys missing alot. WK clinching after missing. TT looks like hes run out of ideas. Lampley and LL think TT has a 'sparring partner mentality' as he was WKs sparring partner at one time.

WK'd round,

WKS.

kikibalt
07-12-2008, 05:51 PM
Frank:

Their Heavyweights. Of COURSE they suck.But our reporter, Wladimir Klitschko Sucks sure doesn't. He's good.

GorDoom


Agree that sucks is good.

KOJOE90
07-12-2008, 05:52 PM
WK is winning, but makes a lot of mistakes, TT seems unwilling or unable to exploit them though.

UK TV has WK well ahead by the way.

kikibalt
07-12-2008, 05:55 PM
Tony the tiger? NO!, more like Tony the pussy cat!!

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 05:55 PM
Round 10:

Lederman has it 8 to 1, WK.

No action a minute into the round. TT banging to the body. Im going to tke the rest of the round off and get another beer,

WKS

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 05:59 PM
round 11

TT can land but WK does not respect his power. The crowd is whistleing. WK attacking hard, i don't think he fears TTs power. WK lands a huge right hand that knocks down TT, and TT gets up at 9, but Cortez calls it off anyway.

WK TKO11 TT,

WKS

Todd
07-12-2008, 06:02 PM
Once again, HBO ignores Ruslan Chagaev, instead showing that Wladimir Klitschko's "future opponents" are: Peter, Valuev, Povetkin, and.......Chris Arreola [?????????].

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
07-12-2008, 06:04 PM
Compubox shows that TT outlanded WK by 40 punches and landed at a better percentage.

Good night everyone,

WKS

HC05
07-12-2008, 06:22 PM
Compu box did not mean dick in this fight, Klit was landing the sharper punches and controlling most of the fight. Thompson, looking like he was fighting under water, was actually outlasted by Klit !! This was an incredibly frustrating fight to watch with Klit looking so beatable and mechanical but the sloooooow plodding Thompson unable to do anything to capitalize on Klit's many mistakes.

Also Cortez alowing absolutely no in-fighting, I guess because the home fighter can't fight on the inside at all.

And did I mention that the fight sucked to an 11 on the 10-point suck scale.

I have to believe that Povetkin will walk all over Klit, at least Povetkin gets his punches off and he throws in bunches.

bodyblow
07-12-2008, 06:36 PM
I ignore Chagaev also considering he cant seem to cross the street without postponing a fight due to injury or illness...

HE Grant
07-12-2008, 06:43 PM
So Klit, bleeding, comes from behind against a young, talented opponent who came into the bout in shape, unafraid and motivated to fight and demonstrates stamina, heart and late round power to knock him out ... doesn't sound like he sucks to me but I'm sure some stunning hotties will be su-king him tonight ... how about some credit for a gutsy performance ? I thought not ...:rolleyes:

mike casey
07-12-2008, 06:57 PM
Isn't there anybody out there who can zero in on that Klit chin and start us a new era?

I fear not - and the mundane beat goes on.

HC05
07-12-2008, 06:57 PM
Klit never came from behind unless you count clawing his way back after loosing the first round as coming from behind. I'll give Klit credit for getting the job done but man is he painful to watch.

GorDoom
07-12-2008, 07:02 PM
I rarely say this about ANY fighter but Lil' Klit is a fucking dog & we ain't talking a bull terrier here ...

GorDoom

kikibalt
07-12-2008, 07:06 PM
So Klit, bleeding, comes from behind against a young, talented opponent who came into the bout in shape, unafraid and motivated to fight and demonstrates stamina, heart and late round power to knock him out ... doesn't sound like he sucks to me but I'm sure some stunning hotties will be su-king him tonight ... how about some credit for a gutsy performance ? I thought not ...:rolleyes:

Did you say young opponent? surely your kidding!!

Crold1
07-12-2008, 07:07 PM
Klitschko Stops Thompson, Furthers His Claim on the Heavyweight Crown
By Cliff Rold

At the very least, it was better than the Sultan Ibragimov win in his last fight.

Leaps and bounds better.

In fact, the only similarity between the two bouts will be found in the record books which again will read that 32-year old IBF and WBO Heavyweight titlist Wladimir Klitschko (51-3, 45 KO) won and in dominant fashion. While 36-year old Tony Thompson (31-2, 19 KO) of Washington, DC was, in the words of Klitschko, “unbelievably determined,” it was the champion who would prove his own determination working through a competitive first six rounds to control the second half of the fight, walking his man down en route to an eleventh round knockout at Color Line Arena in Altona, Hamburg, Germany on Saturday night.

He also further walked down any argument against his being the one true Heavyweight Champion of the World.

Klitschko weighed in for the bout at a cut and ready 241 lbs. Thompson came in slightly heavier at 247 ˝.

Read the Rest at: http://maxboxing.com/cliff/rold0712a08.asp

HC05
07-12-2008, 07:10 PM
Did you say young opponent? surely your kidding!!

36 years old and no stamina either. As for heart I believe the 'tiger' quit in the 11th.

mike casey
07-12-2008, 07:11 PM
Oh, my dear Gor, this is bloody priceless! I know exactly what you mean.

Wlad famously said that he and Vitali would never meet, because he could never beat Vitali. Doesn't that say it all?

I imagine Foreman chomping at the bit - even now - for the chance to tee off on these guys.

Dear, oh, dear!!

Crold1
07-12-2008, 07:16 PM
I don't feel impressed with Klitschko either, but at this point he's the only active Heavyweight with a real claim to being the division's champion. Wins count.

mike casey
07-12-2008, 07:27 PM
You're quite right, Crold. Wlad has proved himself the outstanding heavyweight fighter. But Sanders and Brewster knocked him kicking and he fights smartly because he knows his limitations.

But 'Dr Steelhammer' for goodness sake? He doesn't exactly 'go for it', does he? I always use the same analogy - a man who is scared of a spider will always run from a spider.

And Wlad, for all his beef, would be running like crazy from Dempsey/Louis/Marciano.

Crold1
07-12-2008, 07:29 PM
Marciano might have had trouble with this jab and hold fighter right now, especially given the range and size issues. Dempsey and Louis though? KO by early.

kikibalt
07-12-2008, 07:31 PM
You're quite right, Crold. Wlad has proved himself the outstanding heavyweight fighter. But Sanders and Brewster knocked him kicking and he fights smartly because he knows his limitations.

But 'Dr Steelhammer' for goodness sake? He doesn't exactly 'go for it', does he? I always use the same analogy - a man who is scared of a spider will always run from a spider.

And Wlad, for all his beef, would be running like crazy from Dempsey/Louis/Marciano.


He wouldn't have a chance to run!!

wolgast
07-12-2008, 07:39 PM
Primo Carnera would be the undisputed heavyweight champion today--that's how bad it is. Klit is a joke and Thompson could have won this fight if he had some stones. Teddy Atlas was correct Fridaynight on ESPN, picking Thompson to win, he just didn't figure on Thompson having no stones. Tony the pussycat nailed Klit with the jab, busted his face, and hurt him several times in the body and had Klit looking at the clock. The guy had a real shot and he gave it away. And those HBO announcers, babbling all night about how wonderful Klit is--bring back Don Dunphy for God's sake. Enough of this shilling! ENOUGH! And tell Lennox Lewis to get a day job! He makes Lampley sound like Clem McCarthy or Tedd Husing. If he says anything insighfull about a fight it will be the first time! Are these guys paid to say nice things about Klit? Somewhere out there is a guy with marginal skills but who is just plain tough. Hopefully, such a fighter will come forward and clean up this heavyweight mess. Sonny Liston could beat these frauds from the grave.

wolgast
07-12-2008, 07:44 PM
Merchant was correct aht etop of the show when he compared covering this fight to following the president to some small function or speech in the hope something insightful would happen. Only I'm sure Larry didn't mean following George Washington or Abe Lincoln or FDR. He meant following George W. Bush. Bush is to the presidency what Klitchschko is to the heavyweight division.

mike casey
07-12-2008, 07:47 PM
I thought about dropping Primo's name and then thought, "Nah, Mike, that would be taking it too far."

But you've swayed me, Wolgast - and yes, dear old Charley Liston would have chopped up these guys brutally and most rapidly.

kikibalt
07-12-2008, 07:57 PM
Charlie Powell would had have this guys for lunch!

mike casey
07-12-2008, 08:01 PM
Nice one, Frank!!

Rafael
07-12-2008, 08:28 PM
Klit is absolutely petrified of ANY inside fighting, even against a guy who is a soft puncher and has longer arms than him. He clinched each and every single time there was any possibility of an inside exchange, and Joe Cortez just let him do it with no absolutely consequence. Klit looked very unimpressive while Thompson was alive (rds. 1-6). I had it 3-2-1 after 6. Wlad's effectiveness diminishes about five-fold when he is not the forward-moving fighter. From the 7th. on, Thompson got tired and basically reverted to survival mode, and only then Klit started to assert himself by throwing his punches from the lead instead of the back foot. It was just a matter of time for Wlad to land something solid as Tony became a tired target, and it finally happened. Not impressed by either man

tedsares
07-12-2008, 08:33 PM
[

Crold1
07-12-2008, 08:36 PM
Chagaev has a burst Achille and could be out close to a year. Were he healthy, he's the second best in the world right now.

Ron Lipton
07-12-2008, 08:39 PM
Primo Carnera would be the undisputed heavyweight champion today--that's how bad it is. Klit is a joke and Thompson could have won this fight if he had some stones. Teddy Atlas was correct Fridaynight on ESPN, picking Thompson to win, he just didn't figure on Thompson having no stones. Tony the pussycat nailed Klit with the jab, busted his face, and hurt him several times in the body and had Klit looking at the clock. The guy had a real shot and he gave it away. And those HBO announcers, babbling all night about how wonderful Klit is--bring back Don Dunphy for God's sake. Enough of this shilling! ENOUGH! And tell Lennox Lewis to get a day job! He makes Lampley sound like Clem McCarthy or Tedd Husing. If he says anything insighfull about a fight it will be the first time! Are these guys paid to say nice things about Klit? Somewhere out there is a guy with marginal skills but who is just plain tough. Hopefully, such a fighter will come forward and clean up this heavyweight mess. Sonny Liston could beat these frauds from the grave.


REPLY: 100% correct I hate that shilling baloney too like there are no smart boxing fans out there that cannot see this is the worst ever.

Good call Frank on Charlie Powell too, I know just what you mean. God do these heavyweights stink. Joey Orbillo, Quarry, Chuvalo and so many others would run them out of the ring with busted jaws and pissing blood for weeks.
I think if a guy like Mike DeJohn hit these guys on the jaw it would be lights out.

tedsares
07-12-2008, 08:39 PM
round 11

TT can land but WK does not respect his power. The crowd is whistleing. WK attacking hard, i don't think he fears TTs power. WK lands a huge right hand that knocks down TT, and TT gets up at 9, but Cortez calls it off anyway.

WK TKO11 TT,

WKS


Good job, Sucks, and thanks. :D

mrbig1
07-12-2008, 08:44 PM
This just shows how bad the division sucks!!!.

PeteLeo
07-12-2008, 08:45 PM
Jesus, if Klitschko ever loses again, you guys will orgasm all over yourselves.

I certainly don't think Thompson won more than a round, if that, and about half of his "effective" body punches were well south of the border.

Why didn't Thompson "go for it" more? Because every time he took a step in that direction, he was eating a right hand. He endured them well (early), but for Christ sake, the man is a human being, and even among this crowd of haters, most will agree that Klitschko hits pretty damned hard with the right. The last right was as quick and straight from the shoulder as any thrown in the sport today, and I doubt that Thompson "laid down" or "quit" when it landed.

I'm not enshrining Klitschko in the Hall or anything, but, damn, he's beaten Peter (winning every round but those in which he was floored by rabbit punches), Byrd, Brewster, Barrett, Mercer, Botha, Jefferson, McCline, Shulz, Wolfgramm, Ibragimov . . . who do you want him in there with? Povetkin? The way he looked over the first half against Chambers, I doubt that Povetkin lasts four rounds. Arreola? Big, rough, and hard-hitting, but promise needs nuturing, not getting thrown into the machine too soon. Sanders? Knocked out in one in his last bout. Purrity? I don't know if the guy's even still boxing.

Klitschko's never backed out of a fight or quit in the middle of a lathering, yet he's a "dog"?

Then there's this comment, "The crowd's completely white." Maybe we're getting to the gist of the oozing hatred? The bout was in Germany, after all.

The man's performed bravely and well for quite few years now (twelve years as a pro), a lot of locally-beloved former champs have resumes that pale in comparison, and his career's winding down. I have to wonder if he would he the recipient of all of this emotional revulsion if he was from America. I'm no huge fan, but I try to be fair. PeteLeo.

hagler04
07-12-2008, 08:46 PM
I'm shocked this fight went 11 rounds. Thompson is a good gatekeeper level fighter but he showed in the first 5 rounds that Klitschko cannot fight backing up, PERIOD . . he just didn't have the stamina or firepower to close the show. I only had THompson winning 2 rounds with 1 even but he had Wlad in a very bad place during the first half of the fight, with Klit backing up from a non-puncher with aggression and basic counterpunching, only to let Wlad come back, when he basically stopped throwing punches because he was tired around the 7th. Credit for Klitschko for having the conditioning to get a 2nd wind, but jeez louise after seeing him struggle with Thompson I was shuddering to think what a dangerman like Jeff Merritt who actually had some SNAP in his shots would've done to Wlad.

I know think Povetkin has a VERY big chance at upsetting the Ukranian when that fight comes off. But the ref has got to stop letting Klitschko grab and lean on to his opponents' backs round after round . . it's an illegal tactic and Cortez didn't give so much as a warning.

HE Grant
07-12-2008, 08:59 PM
Hats off to Peteleo ... no joke ... he said it exactly as it is ... some fighters simply inspire a lot of hatred here ... Tyson, Roy Jones and Klit Jr. the most ...

to say he is a dog without guts is terribly wrong ...even in his losses he kept trying to get up, he never quit ..

We know he has a very shaky chin. We know he fights to maximize his strengths and protect his weaknesses, fine ... however, he has significant skills, always shows up in shape and deserves fairer commentary ...

by the way Frank you are correct on the age .. my mistake..

HE

hagler04
07-12-2008, 09:04 PM
REPLY: 100% correct I hate that shilling baloney too like there are no smart boxing fans out there that cannot see this is the worst ever.

Good call Frank on Charlie Powell too, I know just what you mean. God do these heavyweights stink. Joey Orbillo, Quarry, Chuvalo and so many others would run them out of the ring with busted jaws and pissing blood for weeks.
I think if a guy like Mike DeJohn hit these guys on the jaw it would be lights out.


The funny thing is Chuvalo often gets remembered as being a plodder/crude but his speed/athleticism compared to Thompson was ten-fold.

evander
07-12-2008, 09:49 PM
I fell asleep! I have been trying to get a nap in and just couldn't sleep. Then! the Klit fight came on...and by rd 4, i was fast alseep! Thanks vlad!

But seriously. Isn't Vlad the literally the biggest p**sy you have ever seen? It puzzles me that HBO still puts this guy on there air. I'm assuming Vald won the fight. It's true above, i was asleep by rd 4.

Rafael
07-12-2008, 10:06 PM
Hatred? Give me a break? Why does criticizing a fighter has to automatically translate into "hating"? Klitschko is a professional boxer for chrissakes. Hating is a strong feeling that takes a lot of energy, and I can't think of a rational being willing to expend that energy on a a professional athlete. Klit is a nice guy who dominates a piss poor division in a fairly unimpressive way. Criticizing him does not imply any negative personal feelings. Fans do that all the time.

Phillyfan
07-12-2008, 10:33 PM
Round 10:

No action a minute into the round. TT banging to the body. Im going to tke the rest of the round off and get another beer,

WKS

classic:)

Phillyfan
07-12-2008, 10:42 PM
Hatred? Give me a break? Why does criticizing a fighter has to automatically translate into "hating"? Klitschko is a professional boxer for chrissakes. Hating is a strong feeling that takes a lot of energy, and I can't think of a rational being willing to expend that energy on a a professional athlete. Klit is a nice guy who dominates a piss poor division in a fairly unimpressive way. Criticizing him does not imply any negative personal feelings. Fans do that all the time.


"sucks"
"running like a f*** Bi***"
"F**** Dog"
"biggest pus**"

strong words for criticism

Rafael
07-12-2008, 10:52 PM
"sucks"
"running like a f*** Bi***"
"F**** Dog"
"biggest pus**"

strong words for criticism

Can't understand that either, but blanket statements about "hatred" were made, and being critical is not a one-size-fits-all stance.

rodyssey
07-12-2008, 11:45 PM
Can't understand that either, but blanket statements about "hatred" were made, and being critical is not a one-size-fits-all stance.

You're right its not one-size-fits-all. But I think you can understand how some unbiased criticism can get lost in a thread where the recappers screen name is Wlad Klitschko Sucks and is constantly called Lil' Klit by one of the more respected people on this site.

PeteLeo
07-13-2008, 12:06 AM
Okay, tell me when anyone on this board ever said anything POSITIVE about the man. He's clearly the best heavyweight around -- no matter what you think of the division --, but, as cited above, no one here calls him "champ" because they're too busy inventing exciting new derivations of "pussy," "dog," "bum," and "pretender." That's character assassination, not "criticism." Plus, we're informed (in this thread) that Klitschko would be destroyed by guys like Jeff Merritt, who was KO'd in the first by soft-punching Henry Clark and in the third by a clubfighter making his second bout.

What do you want of the man? You want him to stand in ring center with his hands down and his feet glued to the canvas so that a "real fighter" like Tua can have a shot at crushing him? Did Lewis fight that way (similar build, similar skills, similar fragile chin)? Does his decision to use his brain and those in his corner disqualify him from being a "real fighter"?

Am I going to miss Klitschko once he's out of the game? Probably not, but even I can recognize that the man has come back from disasterous circumstances to fashion a decent career for himself. Just because there are no Alis, Foremans ("men"?), Fraziers, or Holmeses in the class today doesn't mean that a fighter who climbs through the ropes, doesn't cheat, and manages to win virtually all of his matches qualifies as a throwrug for the crap that we want to wipe off our shoes. I get the feeling that none of the "criticisms" of Klitschko tonight have anything to do with his performance.

They're all being posted because he didn't get his ass knocked out. PeteLeo.

Rafael
07-13-2008, 12:34 AM
Sure, continue with the blanket statements about criticisms (whether they are valid or not seems to be irrelevant to you). I am bowing out of this discussion because the personal insults towards the fighter plus the inflammatory "hate" accusations are making this board resemble one of the many crap boxing boards out there. This is not what the CBZ is about.

Ron Lipton
07-13-2008, 12:51 AM
I understand all sides to this and I respect the respect Pete is showing W.Klitschko. I watched the fight earlier tonight and because the heavyweight division is such an important part of boxing, it rouses nostalgic emotion in all of us afficionados.

I respect all fighters who climb through those ropes and I love the love between the two brothers and the dedication and focus it took to climb through the wasteland that is now the heavyweight division.

That all being said, as a student of professional prize fighting I can tell you without any doubt in my mind this athlete has truly limited skills. His pawing jab is terrible, his chin is mediocore to weak, and he is pitifully slow. He is big, strong and has a great record as an Eagle among Crows. He is a man to be respected for his education, physical fitness and success and I do very much respect him for that.

As a student of boxing history he is a pitiful example of a heavyweight champion which is not his fault. It is to our sorrow as fans this is all we have in 2008. His opponents corner was embarrassing, the street level jargon, the pep talks, the endless flukie entourage, Cortez being involved once again, and the HBO shilling, all very disappointing and unfullfilling.

Beautiful arena, great fans, and a Saturday night of boxing to appease us hassled, sad and deprerssed boxing fans who wait with salivating jaws for a great show to help us through our mundane lives with high gas prices, limited income and our time allowed on earth just surviving eating up all our moments.

The heavyweight title which has meant so much to us to looke forward to has degressed into a feed the Geek, Tyrone Power, "Nightmare Alley" show.

PeterD
07-13-2008, 12:53 AM
I made a big mistake in preparation for watching the Klit fight. As I was taping it (show started at 4am in Australia), I watched the first Ali vs Patterson fight, then I watched the Klit show.

There is such a difference between watching two supremely fit boxers like Muhammad and Floyd against two muscled up big men like Klit and the Tiger. There is just no speed or class with the big men.

Phillyfan
07-13-2008, 01:19 AM
That all being said, as a student of professional prize fighting I can tell you without any doubt in my mind this athlete has truly limited skills. His pawing jab is terrible, his chin is mediocore to weak, and he is pitifully slow.


there's criticism (he's a f*** pus**) and then there's criticism ("his pawing jab is terrible"). If we criticize a fighter, i would like to see more of the latter of the two. Thank you Ron for your analysis and comments.

PeteLeo
07-13-2008, 01:28 AM
Sure, continue with the blanket statements about criticisms (whether they are valid or not seems to be irrelevant to you). I am bowing out of this discussion because the personal insults towards the fighter plus the inflammatory "hate" accusations are making this board resemble one of the many crap boxing boards out there. This is not what the CBZ is about.

I'm pretty sure I used the word "hate" (actually a variation of it, "haters") once in this thread, but if that's enough to reduce the board to rubble, fine. I promise not to say "hate" anymore.

"Criticism" implies that the critic can see places where the subject can be improved, but I haven't read very many of those suggestions. I'll ask again: what do you want him to do? You want him to become a face-first Freddy Flintstone? A "Willow-the-Wisp" Pep? Who do you want him to fight instead of a mandatory challenger like Thompson? Peter again? Maybe if Sam blitzes Vitali, Wlad will be inspired to save the family honor again (a la the Byrd fight), but as things stand, Peter's wobbly victory over an ancient, oft-knocked out Maskaev hardly shoves him to the forefront of the ranks of challengers (anyhow, I believe a more mature and confident Klitschko would expose Peter in the same manner as McCline did, which would do nothing other than piss off a lot of people in this discussion).

When Klitschko kicks the crap out of a number one contender like Austen, he gets denigrated because Ray wasn't good enough. When he boxes studiously and shuts out another champion like Ibragimov, he's called a boring dick. When he mixes in the boxing and the slugging against a mandatory like Thompson, all we hear is what a pussy he is, how he can't fight going backward (forget the stabbing, brain-rattling rights that brought up Tony the Tiger every time he tried to press forward), how any guy who ever scored a stoppage win in the nostalgic Fifties and Sixties would eat Klitschko's internal organs, and how all of the locals would like to deficate in his morinig coffee.

What do you want? The man's not Marciano or Louis or Ali. He is what and who he is, and right now he's the most successful heavyweight on the planet. He fights to maximize his strengths and minimize his admitted weaknesses, just like 99% of all of the other men in the sport. Plus, he can only fight who's around. So, what do you want?

Suggestions, please, because without 'em, you ain't criticizing, you're bitching. PeteLeo.

diggity
07-13-2008, 01:48 AM
Most people who watch Wlad are just waiting for the next time someone starches him like Sanders did. When you arent rooting for someone, you're rooting against someone else. What's the big surprise there? Until it happens at least it's fun watching him land the 2 punches he wins fights with. He used to have a great left hook but maybe because of back to back southpaws we haven't seen it do much damage lately. Either way its been a while since he's ended a fight with it.

Ever since Sanders he no where near as loose or fluid & resorts to fighting like a nervous wreck. Lucky for him, Steward taught him the art of preservation. Any real heavy with some skill, a punch & at least 1 testicle will make Wlad come apart. Its not going to be a banker or someone who started boxing at 27. Povetkin, despite his defensive problems, has a strong chance. Arreola is aggressive enough to keep it interesting too. He would either KO Wlad or be brutally KOd himself. I don't know what Chagaev would to go get around Wlad's jab & his clinches but his heart will give him a chance to make Wlad fall apart too. Why not give Haye a solid shot as well with his speed & power?

I don't see how anyone could compare Wlad to Lewis especially in this leg of his career. Wlad tries hard but there is a limit on how far he is willing to go.

PeteLeo
07-13-2008, 02:18 AM
You don't see similarities between Klitschko and Lewis? I think they're like separated-at-birth twins, saved from the ash heap of history by Stewart. Sure, Lewis was better ("more natural," as he himself observed on tonight's broadcast), but on the other hand, it's always taken more than one punch to TKO Wlad.

Peter certainly has the punch, but he'll have to verify the presence of testicles for you. "Nervous" or not, Klitschko owned their fight when he wasn't getting jackhammered in the back of the head, and in the last round, it was Peter doing the Funky Chicken at ring center (from a left hook, by the way). I just don't know who's out there right now who's going to bring more power and testosterone to the dance than Sam P. did.

You're a lot more sold on Povetkin than I am at this point. If Klitschko lands the rights that Chambers was dropping on the Russian kid without effort over the first half of the fight, it's going to be short and sweet (for Wlad).

I do think Arreola has a future, but he's going to have to prove and IMprove himself some more. Way too early to start thinking about title fights against any of them, even Valuev or Ruiz. PeteLeo.

Phillyfan
07-13-2008, 02:38 AM
I think lewis was a better boxer, had a better jab, and held less than klitschko does.
klitscko owned peter because he was able to hold anytime peter got close. An exhausted peter was finally put out of his misery in the last round. perfect game plan by stewart. I'm curious if peter learned his lesson or would it be a repeat of their last fight.
klitschko reminds me of nikolai valuev. not in styles, but in careers. Everyone can see valuevs faults, a very slow man who throws amateur punches, yet he was taking out "top" guys. Donald, beck, barrett, Mccline, ruiz. It took another russian, chagaev, who came in with a good game plan, to finally beat the russian giant. Everyone can see the flaws in klitschkos style, Ron Lipton pointed them out earlier. It will take a fighter with a game plan to defeat klitschko. Peter has the power, but does he have the game plan and the skill to pull it off.

diggity
07-13-2008, 03:07 AM
I used to think they were similarities but when I actually rewatched most of Lewis' fights I decided that comparison didn't give Lewis nearly enough credit. It's too easy to call them 2 tall guys with a jab & a right hand, trained by Steward & suffered KO losses, etc.. etc. Wlad does not have the arsenal Lewis had, he cannot fight inside (not Lewis' speciality but he was certainly better at it), can't fight backing up, footwork not as good...etc... I don't see Wlad surviving Lewis' fights with Bruno or a young Mercer or even Morrison & in no way shape or form has Wlad taken the amount of shots Lewis has & from that quality of opponent. Lewis despite his KO losses has been in there & taken shots from...(boxrec it). He's also never quit or crawled across a ring like a mamed dog. Is that different enough so far?

Peter has plenty to learn. It was a good brutal test for Wlad and I doubt that he gets out of that fight standing up if it happens again...& by mentioning Peter you emphasized my point, the Peter fight was 3 years ago...so what happened to that hook again?

I know Wlad has a great chance to drop Povetkin as does Povetkin for roughing up Wlad but (& not to compliment Chambers too much) but Chambers is a tad slicker than Wlad...add to the fact that landing a right with nothing on it is a bit easier than landing a right that was meant to end a fight.

I'm not saying the guy doesn't have skill or warrant respect, since Sanders he just appears like a fighter who is teetering on the edge of disaster each time out (except when he fights Byrd). I didn't get that impression from Lewis although I hoped for it at times. I wouldn't call it the most desirable trait for a champion.

Michael Frank
07-13-2008, 05:09 AM
Glad to see you guys saw what I saw. Klit sucks and Thompson sucks. Thompson was a pussycat, not a Tiger, and his own corner was TELLING him he was providing too little effort. This against a "champ" who hardly threw punches for the first 5 rounds -- at all. A freakin' robot; if he wasn't so muscular it would be hard to believe he's an athlete. Much less a world champion.

Funny, Lewis as commentator called Thompson "awkward," which was the opposite of how I saw it. He was smooth, coordinated, and NOT awkward as so many lefties are. But, he threw virtually no punches, and the few he threw didn't have bad intentions. Now, Lewis WAS awkward in his day. And I agree with the posts comparing him to Klit, they remind me very much of one another. Very large and strong, but robotic, with chin defects, big on holding the other guy as a defense (though Lewis looked more incompetent when he held than does Klit).

Klit was called "great" a couple of times tonight, though to me HE is the awkward one. An intelligent, decent guy in rock-hard shape. But, pitiful skillwise for a champion. A live body would have beaten him tonight. Ali taunted Liston as not having the skills to beat him before fight #1; imagine if Klit was champ in 1964. Ali would have had a field day, because Klit is an amateur compared to Liston. No exaggeration.

As Thompson's cornerman said, "We didn't come all this way for you to fight like this." Boy, the guy looked like he wanted it as much as he wants crabs.

That the audience was all white, I found an interesting comment by VKS because Germany is known for being quite multi-cultural. This is NOT Germany of 1940, but it looked like it in the audience tonight.

HE Grant
07-13-2008, 07:29 AM
I'm with Pete here ... there is a clear line between criticism and personalized slamming and Wlad really gets attacked here ... guess what, that's fine too as it is a Message Board ... however, when someone like myself points it out there is no need for anyone to be offended , spin it and rip the quality of the posters ... no one here was being personally singled out and there were varying degrees of negative expression about Wlad's performance... I did not mean to offend ...

Wlad will inspire his personal degree of venom from guys for several reasons .. he is a big guy with a weak chin ... he fights cautiously because of it in a style that is intelligent but not exciting and as Wilt wrote ..."Nobody Likes Goliath" ..

I am no tremendous fan of his but I acknowledge the following .. the man makes excellent use of his size, has a very effective jab , is extremely intelligent in the ring, has developed far better stamina and confidence, has huge power and represents the game out of the ring as well as any champion we have had ... to call him a dog is to call all the men he has legitimately defeated dogs as well and that's calling a lot of men brave enough to get in a ring and trade blows for a living cowards ... I disagree with that ...

As far as saying all the other guys mentioned easily beat him again I disagree .. his style would be very difficult for many guys while others would nail him .. just remember a fighter much like Wlad , Fred Fulton, tall, great jab, great power and weak chin managed to beat Sam Langford twice (accordingly to Clay's book) ... and get iced by Dempsey in 19 seconds ...

Many champions tend to be remembered in far better lights once they are gone ... Lennox Lewis was always slammed much like Klit here is and now some guys miss him ... I personally feel Lennox was a superior fighter but get the point .... months ago I wrote how so many of the champions were looked down upon in their day only to be missed and re-evaluated when they were gone ... Remember , the incomparable Fitz, the greatest fighter of his era, got all the praise when stopped by the "lumbering " Jeffries in their rematch, no one was singing Floyd Patterson's praises when he was dropped by Pete Rademacher and took six rounds to stop the flat out amateur and many newspapers were still slamming Marciano as a crude second rater when he fought Cockell ...

kikibalt
07-13-2008, 09:23 AM
Is a jab, pawing with you left hand? is that a jab?

robertk
07-13-2008, 09:32 AM
Just how many heavyweights carry their power into late rounds and get ko's past about the 7th round anyway? Let alone heavies that can 1 punch a guy late in a fight. That certainly is a skill that isn't in abundance. And the guy certainly knows how to finish opponents.

I think Thompson does very very well against the other heavies out there. And I'm sure if there was another heavy on the scene==call him fighter A== that dominated a champ like Ibragamov, he'd be the fan favorite and " a guy klitschko won't fight or can't beat" & fighter A is really the best out there.

greek1237
07-13-2008, 09:51 AM
The fight was decent, I didnt think it was as bad as you guys say it was. Sure it was not a great fight, and for the most part pretty one sided, but that was a pretty amazing ended with the ko punch that ko Thompson, I was thinking it might have gone the distant before Wlad relly put on the power in round 11, and score that knockout.
It was just other night in the office, nothing great, but nothing bad either. Just need to wait for Wlad's next fight, perhaps Peter or one of the other title holders. I think Wlad is the goods to relly rule the division for a few years.

mike casey
07-13-2008, 10:20 AM
HE, you didn't offend. I think you and the excellent Pete Leo make some very valid points here.

'Lil' Klit has learned a lot - and all credit to him for that. It takes some courage to come back from the kind of pasting he got from Sanders.

Wlad, however, just doesn't set my soul on fire. You look at the heavy rankings now, and who is there really of any genuine quality? Some guys in the Top 30 seem to have been around forever.

Sam Peter can bang and he might just land a big one on Wlad's chin and upset the apple cart. But I don't see that happening. Chris Arreoloa seems to be picking up steam, but I don't know that he's the real McCoy.

Wlad's an 'athlete' - no doubt about that. I just want to see an athlete who's got the whole package - he must be out there somewhere!

hagler04
07-13-2008, 10:20 AM
Okay, tell me when anyone on this board ever said anything POSITIVE about the man. He's clearly the best heavyweight around -- no matter what you think of the division --, but, as cited above, no one here calls him "champ" because they're too busy inventing exciting new derivations of "pussy," "dog," "bum," and "pretender." That's character assassination, not "criticism." Plus, we're informed (in this thread) that Klitschko would be destroyed by guys like Jeff Merritt, who was KO'd in the first by soft-punching Henry Clark and in the third by a clubfighter making his second bout.

What do you want of the man? You want him to stand in ring center with his hands down and his feet glued to the canvas so that a "real fighter" like Tua can have a shot at crushing him? Did Lewis fight that way (similar build, similar skills, similar fragile chin)? Does his decision to use his brain and those in his corner disqualify him from being a "real fighter"?

Am I going to miss Klitschko once he's out of the game? Probably not, but even I can recognize that the man has come back from disasterous circumstances to fashion a decent career for himself. Just because there are no Alis, Foremans ("men"?), Fraziers, or Holmeses in the class today doesn't mean that a fighter who climbs through the ropes, doesn't cheat, and manages to win virtually all of his matches qualifies as a throwrug for the crap that we want to wipe off our shoes. I get the feeling that none of the "criticisms" of Klitschko tonight have anything to do with his performance.

PeteLeo.

Constantly grabbing, holding, and leaning in your opponent round after round isn't 'using' your brain, it's cheating. Fans complained when Ruiz did it, and people understandably complain when Wlad does it. Fighters who show no inside game and basically look like they just entered the Twilight Zone when their opponent is going forward and throwing punches (as THompson did to Wlad rounds 3-5) aren't going to be fan favorites with many. I give Klitschko some credit . . despite his excessive wrestling/holding, he in the end stood his ground, fired off right hands, and wore Thompson down. He also showed a sort of hook-cut that he hasn't showed much in the past that was very effective, and he even threw some body shots. But looking at some of these guys, who have ZERO snap in their punches, plodding footwork . . .your Austins, Brocks, Thompsons . . .sorry, but I see a fast rangy knockout puncher like Merritt or a Mercado or even a Tillis, who SNAPPED the left jab and threw quick combinations, being Wlad's worst nightmare.

It's not Wlad's fault the comp is so weak, but it's not hating to be acknowledging that its weakness is a huge reason for his success, and that he fights in a style which is often not very crowd-pleasing (outside of Germany)

bomma
07-13-2008, 10:45 AM
Bush is to the presidency what Klitchschko is to the heavyweight division.

Laughing my ass off! That is perfect.

tedsares
07-13-2008, 10:49 AM
d

tedsares
07-13-2008, 11:05 AM
d

tedsares
07-13-2008, 11:05 AM
d

HE Grant
07-13-2008, 11:10 AM
Last night was a bit of an awkward fight but you often get that when two year big and tall guys go at it ... Kiki, as far as the jab goes look at the sum of his career and not just last night ....Wlad has consistently demonstrated a very effective, solid jab ...

kikibalt
07-13-2008, 11:53 AM
Last night was a bit of an awkward fight but you often get that when two year big and tall guys go at it ... Kiki, as far as the jab goes look at the sum of his career and not just last night ....Wlad has consistently demonstrated a very effective, solid jab ...


In his last two fights, all he has done with the left, is paw, the guy is not getting better, he is just getting worse, and yes he sucks, as a fighter big time.

evander
07-13-2008, 12:12 PM
In his last two fights, all he has done with the left, is paw, the guy is not getting better, he is just getting worse, and yes he sucks, as a fighter big time.

Amen!

starlingstomp
07-13-2008, 12:43 PM
He does seem to come for an extraordinary amount of criticism in comparison to someone like Kelly pAvlik, who is basically a slower, less talented dangerous Don Lee.

kikibalt
07-13-2008, 12:57 PM
He does seem to come for an extraordinary amount of criticism in comparison to someone like Kelly pAvlik, who is basically a slower, less talented dangerous Don Lee.


Yes he does, but Pavilk comes to fight!!

evander
07-13-2008, 01:18 PM
Yes he does, but Pavilk comes to fight!!

Pavlik also fights with HEART, DESIRE, and with the WILL TO WIN, unlike Klitchko.

KLitchko has none of those, and will fall again the 1st time he's thrown in there with someone with a pulse that can take his best and fight back.

tedsares
07-13-2008, 02:16 PM
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HE Grant
07-13-2008, 02:26 PM
I do not remember anywhere claiming he is a great fighter ... I simply say his is not a heartless dog without a will to win ... those comments I feel are emotional , incorrect and border on silly ...

evander
07-13-2008, 03:08 PM
I do not remember anywhere claiming he is a great fighter ... I simply say his is not a heartless dog without a will to win ... those comments I feel are emotional , incorrect and border on silly ...

Say what you will...but i call it as i see it, and emotion has nothing to do with it.

Klitchko to me, is just a pretender in there and will be exposed for lack of heart everytime it gets tested. It's hard to be a fan of a fighter who has no spirit to fight. This is what you get when you have a fighter with size and ability...but no heart.

Maybe he'll use the "tampered bottle excuse" next time he gets a gut check.

PeteLeo
07-13-2008, 03:36 PM
Pavlik also fights with HEART, DESIRE, and with the WILL TO WIN, unlike Klitchko.

KLitchko has none of those, and will fall again the 1st time he's thrown in there with someone with a pulse that can take his best and fight back.

Like Peter, perhaps?

A lot of you guys are saying this, but the mysterious "somebody" who's going to do it remains nameless.

Holding? Who held more blatantly than did Ali against Frazier (especially in fight two), yet who calls Ali a "dog"?

Wlad "did nothing" for the first half of last night's fight? I suggest you watch a replay. Every time Thompson came forward -- bam! -- there was that straight right bopping into his nose and gums. Because Thompson took it so well (we're used to seeing opponents flop like fish when hit flush that way), it seems to have been overlooked by the anti-Klitschko crowd, but getting hit cleanly in the face by even a mediocre puncher hurts. Maybe Tony the Tiger should have advised his corner that if they took those freaking shots to the the face instead, then he would follow up with the hustle necessary to discombobulate Klitschko.

When did Klitschko ever "quit"? He was still trying against Purrity when his corner intervened, trying to get up for the fourth time against Sanders, and talking out of his head like Foreman post-Young with Brewster. Crawling across the ring to get back to his corner? Explain to me how much worse and more embarrassing that was than lying flat on his back, examining his glove and counting his millions (Douglas-Holyfield), turning his back and waving everything off with repeated calls of, "No mas, no mas!" (you know who), or rolling around on the canvas like a poor man's Rowdy Roddy Piper, checking out the count, and then "falling" back into a supine position (the "vicious" and "badass" Liston in Ali II). I'd really like to know.

At least "Quitschko" was trying to continue, unlike those three men and countless more who bottomed-out yet still receive appreciation and praise. Maybe he should have pulled "a Liston."

A lot of champs from across the years would KO Wlad quickly and frighteningly, but a lot of them would be unable to contend with his size, strength, and debilitating power, including some of the titleholders mentioned in this very thread. As much as I liked Tommy Morrison and enjoyed his fights, unless he fought like he did against Old Foreman, I envision a Michael Bentt II scenario for him against Klitschko. If you saw the prime, undefeated Quick Tillis in his trackmeet performance against Mike Weaver for the title, I think you saw the outcome of a Klitschko-Tillis bout after Quick tastes that first right hand. Jeff Merritt beat who to "merit" inclusion in the "They'd Kill Klitschko" summary? Folks, just because a guy put on gloves in the decades prior to 1990 doesn't mean he was automatically a million times tougher and better than today's pros.

Wlad Klitschko to me is not an All-Time Great, nor will he be seen as one, but despite his unpleasing style and non-American citizenship, he's far from being a joke inside the ring, either. PeteLeo.

HE Grant
07-13-2008, 05:03 PM
So the real deal is that Thompson, Ibragimov, Brewster, Austin, Brock, Byrd, Peter, McCline, Mercer, Jefferson and gang all lacked pulse which I guess means all were handpicked opponents with zero ability, incapable of any merrit. Then the same must be said of whoever these men defeated ... the real deal has decimated an entire generation of a division ...

Now no one is saying today's group is anything special at all but who in the last five years is a lock over Wlad in your book ?

The joke is I feel the improved Peter, if in his best shape, beats Wlad and I have been saying this for months ... I just love seeing how far some guys go ...:D

sr71ko
07-13-2008, 06:31 PM
Unfortunately, I don't see too many fighters being able to beat W.Klit in the near future. A very raw and crude Peter decked W.Klit 3 times and loss by decision in 2005. I will be the first to admit that I do not like W.Klit, his brother or his style, despite the fact that he scores kayos. I am even more turned off most of the time by W.Klit than Lennox Lewis. W.Klit gets away with a lot pulling the opponents head down, excessive holding(even tackling), and measuring. I lost count of the number times that W.Klit was measuring or extending his arm in his opponents face without punching. W.Klit has a weak chin and suspect stamina. He should thank God that he is the best of a very bad crop of world wide heavyweights. A prime Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, and Lennox Lewis would have all flatten W.Klit inside of 7 rounds. Even marginal contenders of the 1990s(Corrie Sanders did kick his butt) and others(Tommy Morrison) could have kicked his butt. Where is Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, or Max Baer(All proven giant killers) when we need them? Or at least the next best hard punching U.S. heavyweight?

evander
07-13-2008, 07:07 PM
So the real deal is that Thompson, Ibragimov, Brewster, Austin, Brock, Byrd, Peter, McCline, Mercer, Jefferson and gang all lacked pulse which I guess means all were handpicked opponents with zero ability, incapable of any merrit. Then the same must be said of whoever these men defeated ... "the real deal has decimated an entire generation of a division" ...

Now no one is saying today's group is anything special at all but who in the last five years is a lock over Wlad in your book ?

The joke is I feel the improved Peter, if in his best shape, beats Wlad and I have been saying this for months ... I just love seeing how far some guys go ...:D

Grant,


LOL!! Is that what you call it?

Mercer was about 45 yrs old and was way past it. But i will say in that fight...that i saw the quit in Klitchko even then when Mercer jabbed back at him, he(Klit) didn't like it and had that worried look till Mercer ran out of gas. The writing was on the wall even back then. A 35yr old Mercer would have destroyed him.

Klitchko looked like a deer in headlites when he was blitzed by Sanders. He didn't have a clue what to do in that fight. Klitchko showed no drive or desire in that fight. Sure he kept getting up, but so did B.Seldon vs Tyson, and we know what type of heart he had.


Brewster in their 1st was raw and not used up, that's why he won the fight. He took an awful beating in the first 4rds and still had the grit and determination to come back. Once Klitchko realized that this guy wasn't going to go away, he shit himself and quit. Tampered bottle my ass!

Brewster was done as a fighter going into that 2nd fight with Klit.

All of those other names would have been considered Journeymen or fringe contenders back in the 70-mid 90's.

Klit is the type of guy who relies soley on his ability and size, nothing else. If he was just an average sized heavyweight and had to dig down with heart and grit to win his fights ...he never would have made it through his pro debut.

HE Grant
07-13-2008, 07:57 PM
Real Deal: Yes or no, if Wlad is the dog you say what is your opinion of all the men he did defeat. Were they dogs as well ?

Your second point is pointless. Every fighter is the sum of his parts ... if Ali was slow, if Joe Louis could not punch, ect ... makes zero sense to me ...

How about his one punch KO power ? At the very least the guy has had as many dramatic single shot KO's as any heavyweight I have seen in a long time .. last night he pulled one out in the 11th round of a grueling fight ...

kikibalt
07-13-2008, 08:22 PM
Real Deal: Yes or no, if Wlad is the dog you say what is your opinion of all the men he did defeat. Were they dogs as well ?

Your second point is pointless. Every fighter is the sum of his parts ... if Ali was slow, if Joe Louis could not punch, ect ... makes zero sense to me ...

How about his one punch KO power ? At the very least the guy has had as many dramatic single shot KO's as any heavyweight I have seen in a long time .. last night he pulled one out in the 11th round of a grueling fight ...

A grueling fight?!!

evander
07-13-2008, 08:33 PM
HE Grant]Real Deal: Yes or no, if Wlad is the dog you say what is your opinion of all the men he did defeat. Were they dogs as well ?

I'm talking Wlad here not these others. And yes...iv'e seen the dog in him.
"[I

]Your second point is pointless. Every fighter is the sum of his parts ... if Ali was slow, if Joe Louis could not punch, ect ... makes zero sense to me ..."

Next time i'll break it down a little easier for you to comprehend.

How about his one punch KO power ? At the very least the guy has had as many dramatic single shot KO's as any heavyweight I have seen in a long time .. last night he pulled one out in the 11th round of a grueling fight ...

Really? That's what you would call that fight? I must be losing it then, because it sure worked as an excellent sleep aid for me.

diggity
07-13-2008, 08:51 PM
Crawling across the ring to get back to his corner? Explain to me how much worse and more embarrassing that was than lying flat on his back, examining his glove and counting his millions (Douglas-Holyfield), turning his back and waving everything off with repeated calls of, "No mas, no mas!" (you know who), or rolling around on the canvas like a poor man's Rowdy Roddy Piper, checking out the count, and then "falling" back into a supine position (the "vicious" and "badass" Liston in Ali II). I'd really like to know.


You're 100% right when comparing him to other boxers but I'm just comparing him to Lewis. They are just not the same guy.

Wlad wore down Thompson & took him out. He did his job & I don't have a problem with that whatsoever. Just like its been said before, for someone with his size & strengths you would just hope to see a little more out of him instead of timid performances. What makes it worse is that before Sanders the public basically got what they wanted out of him but after that fight it takes a real special case (Byrd). The guy certainly deserves credit for coming back from 2 devastating KO losses to move on the way he has...but, if you don't want to praise the guy for becoming the timid, grappling, safety first & second fighter that he is after that loss then I don't see a problem with that either.

Phillyfan
07-13-2008, 11:24 PM
[QUOTE=sr71ko] Even marginal contenders of the 1990s(Corrie Sanders did kick his butt) and others(Tommy Morrison) could have kicked his butt. QUOTE]


I think klitscko beats morrison the same way lewis did, with the jab, keeping him on the outside. Chagaev would have been interesting. He knows how to move and would't be easy to tie up. klitschko is faster and more athletic than valuev, so it would have been fun to see if chagaev could step it up a notch.

Michael Frank
07-13-2008, 11:26 PM
Klit has a major advantage, IMO, of being naturally a very big man.

Yet one of the attributes Klit has been credited with, as was Lennox Lewis, is "making fine use of his size." Which to me is just so ridiculous to read . . . people who are bigger ALWAYS have the advantage in sports, especially fighting sports. Without having to make any special effort of any kind; it's a built-in advantage (yielding leverage, power, speed [via longer legs and strides], and hard-to-be-reached with a punch when so tall and arms so long), so why act like Klit and Lewis do anything special? They need no special training to stand tall or to have a longer reach . . .

I didn't hear anyone say, "Wilt may have problems dealing with a guy so much shorter" when they were trying to make a match with Ali. His size was viewed as a distinct advantage.

I think the MUCH more difficult effort is for a naturally smaller opponent to effectively overcome HIS size disadvantage. As did Dwight Qawi and Mike Tyson, for example.

I always wondered why people acted like George Foreman was so good at "punching down." How hard can that be? Who wouldn't want to be the 6-3" fighter in a match with a 5-9" fighter? Punching down, you can hit the top of the head AND the chin (not to mention have terrific leverage on uppercuts), yet the guy punching up WILL have difficulty reaching you.

I'd be interested in the thoughts especially of Kikibalt, Randy G., or Ron L. on this. I don't think I am simplifying it, either, I think it is that simple. But please explain why this is or is not true, gentlemen if you would care to.

Thanks.

Michael Frank
07-13-2008, 11:29 PM
HE Grant, are you kidding? You think Klit-Thompson last night was a "grueling" fight??? My God, for which guy??

If so, then DLH-Mayweather was the Fight of the Century.

Phillyfan
07-13-2008, 11:49 PM
http://www.heightsite.com/5_sport/pix/boxer_nikolay_valuev.jpg

Antonia Margarita
07-14-2008, 12:04 AM
southpaws should only fight eachother or learn to fight orthodox like tyson did...they only make for ugly fights that everyone just complains about anyway
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http://www.eastsideboxing.com/fotos/margarito464646.jpg

wolgast
07-14-2008, 08:35 AM
I think the major reason so many people are upset--myself included--is that HBO doesn't own up to the fact that Klit & Co. represent one of the worst periods in heavyweight history and Klit is the leader of the pack. Instead, they constantly tell us how terrific he is and they actually manufacture scenarios during the fight that simply are not taking place, such as Klit starting to get more relaxed and take charge. What really happened was that Thompson simply packed it in midway through the fight and THAT allowed Klit to relax and take charge. The knockout punch itself was spurious but little mention was made of that and camera angles were not the best. If HBO would simply say, 'Listen, the heavyweight division today is what it is and we have an obligation to boxing fans to televise it but that Klit & Co. can never be compared to the greats of the past.' I think the Lost Era of the Heavyweights in the 1980s would clean shop today, but HBO acts like we are watching the second coming of Joe Louis.

Off The River
07-14-2008, 08:58 AM
Was there a whole page or so deleted, or did I go through my first DT?

Seriously.

Overhand_Right
07-14-2008, 10:06 AM
So the real deal is that Thompson, Ibragimov, Brewster, Austin, Brock, Byrd, Peter, McCline, Mercer, Jefferson and gang all lacked pulse which I guess means all were handpicked opponents with zero ability, incapable of any merrit. Then the same must be said of whoever these men defeated ... the real deal has decimated an entire generation of a division ...


Come on man... Ray frickin Mercer who was 42 years old & totally shot?

Take out that name and you've just listed a sorry bunch anyway. Jefferson, McCline, two guys who lose all their key fights.

Ibragimov who outboxed two oldies, Brewster had no credentials (bar blowing out a 40 year old Golota...), Byrd was a good fighter but how overmatched was he against a huge guy like Klitschko? I can't believe anyone would even list Brock and Austin as scalps.

darkknight718
07-14-2008, 10:12 AM
I thought this was a pretty typical Klitschko performance -- a slow, timid start in which he gets tagged too often, followed by a steadily increasing confidence and workflow, and culminating with a late KO. Sad as it is, Wlad is clearly the best in the division. I don't think he's a dog at all. He's just not a great fighter, and there's a strong desire to have a "great" fighter at the top of the heavyweight division. Peter's clearly second best, and they should fight again. I honestly think Wlad would handle him just as easily.

wolgast
07-14-2008, 02:04 PM
Not sure that getting off the floor three times qualifies as "just as easily."

jlupi
07-14-2008, 06:59 PM
All I can say is that until recently I prob saw almost every major hvy fight in the last 20+ years, and taped most of them. The only reason I watched this fight is because my wife went to bed and there was nouthing else on the tube.

Its real bad when a rabid boxing fan might just choose "the dog wisperer" over a hvy title fight.

Dan Gunter
07-14-2008, 08:35 PM
All I can say is that until recently I prob saw almost every major hvy fight in the last 20+ years, and taped most of them. The only reason I watched this fight is because my wife went to bed and there was nouthing else on the tube.

Its real bad when a rabid boxing fan might just choose "the dog wisperer" over a hvy title fight.

I chose to watch "Elizabeth: The Golden Age." The critics didn't care for it, but I thought it was quite good.

Fortunately, we have guys like Pacquiao, I. Vazquez, Cotto-Margarito, and Pavlik out there these days.

Thomas44
07-17-2008, 12:55 PM
Heavyweight fights are more often than not dull .

Many posters here don't like Wlad Klitschko . His record speaks for itself. He is the #1 Heavyweight boxer in the world.

It is about time for Ted Atlas to go back to his unsuccessful training career as I found his post fight analysis to be anything but objective. People tune in for the boxing and I would like to think we all are served by a balanced perspective , something that Ted Atlas does not have the professionalism for.

PeteLeo
07-18-2008, 01:02 AM
When was the last time Teddy accurately predicted the outcome of a non-ESPN fight? PeteLeo.