PDA

View Full Version : Margarito-Mosely Results & Discussion Jan. 24/'09



diggity
09-23-2008, 03:30 PM
I understand that Mosley MAY have a better shot at running all night long from Margarito while trying to outbox, but give me a break. Does anyone really want to see that?
Chances are I think Margarito tires him out in the same fashion as Cotto as Mosley has even less to keep Margarito off.

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
09-24-2008, 12:29 PM
I see Mosley easily outboxing Margritos in the same way that Paul Williams did,

WKS

TDKO
09-24-2008, 01:03 PM
WKS

Are you a betting man?

hawk5ins
09-24-2008, 01:07 PM
I want in too!

Hawk

TDKO
09-24-2008, 01:26 PM
Hawk,

In this economy you take what you can get......

Rafael
09-24-2008, 02:34 PM
I see Mosley easily outboxing Margritos in the same way that Paul Williams did,

WKS

Paul Williams did not easily outbox Margarito. He built an early lead and then held for dear life in the late rounds. I would rather see Margarito against Clottey, Berto, Williams 2, and Cotto 2 instead of Mosley.

silk degrees
09-24-2008, 05:35 PM
Rafael, There was an article which appeared in today's New york Daily news by Tim Smith clearly stating Margarito wants no part of Paul Williams, he turned down flatly a chance to fight him.

As A result, Williams is forced to move up to middleweight because many welterweights, and most notably Margarito refused to even negotiate with him. If Margarito is the big , bad, bold guy many here have suggested, and Floyd ran off because he did not want to face Cotto, and now most recent Margarito, why has Margarito run afraid of Williams?

hawk5ins
09-24-2008, 06:06 PM
With few welterweights, Paul Williams forced to move up to middleweight
Tuesday, September 23rd 2008, 8:45 PM

Paul Williams is forced to move up to middleweight because no big welterweights want to fight him.

Ask Dan Goossem, the promoter for Paul Williams, and he will tell you that he has scoured the country - the world - to find someone willing to challenge the WBO welterweight champion.

"(Luis) Collazo, (Zab) Judah, (Shane) Mosley, Margarito, (Carlos) Baldomir, you name it, we asked," Goossen said, reciting a virtual Who's Who among welterweights. "It never came down to a matter of money. It was a matter of they just didn't want to get into the ring with Paul. Who blames them, right?"

Instead of waiting for those big-name welterweights, Williams is moving up to test the waters at middleweight, taking on Andy Kolle (17-1, 12 KOs) in a 10-round bout in San Jacinto, Calif., Thursday. Williams will share the card with heavyweight contender Chris Arreola, who takes on Israel Garcia in a 12-round match on Versus at 9 p.m.

Williams (34-1, 25 KOs) and his team arrived at this fight after getting rebuffed by Margarito, whom Williams defeated for the WBO welterweight title in 2007, and by middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik.

"We were looking to fight a big name," Williams said. "If we can't get any big fights at 147, we're like, let's go the other way. What other weight classes can I make?"

Williams is not going to relinquish his welterweight title. Williams believes he can go from 147 to 168 pounds without any problems. The fight with Kolle is the first step toward determining whether Williams, a 6-1 southpaw, can become a modern day Henry Armstrong.

"You could really go down the list of welterweights, super welterweights, and up. But I think the statement that's being made here is two-fold," Goossen said. "One is that Paul understands that the pool of fighters willing to fight him is very limited. He's not the most feared man in boxing for nothing. So rather than sitting back and peeling off two or three HBO dates a year, we're looking to keep Paul busy and to create opportunities."

It is a good strategy. The one weakness - and it's a big one - is the dependence on other talented boxers at those various weight classes to make fights with Williams. Williams survived a tough war with Margarito last year to take away the WBO title. Then in his next fight he lost the title to Carlos Quintana in a lackluster performance. In the rematch Williams destroyed Quintana on a first-round TKO. That experience taught Williams a valuable lesson - never take anyone for granted. So he has a different mind-set going into the fight against Kolle.

"I'm coming to his weight class, so he feels like he's the man in that weight," Williams said. "So I've got to earn his respect, you know what I'm saying? I've got to make him earn my respect. If I get in the ring with him, we're going to have to duke it out."

SHANE'S BACK: Shane Mosley will take on Ricardo Mayorga in a 12-round welterweight match at the Home Depot Center in Carson, Calif., Saturday night on HBO. It would have been nice to see Williams against Mosley, considering both are fighting two days apart and within 150 miles of each other. But as Mosley said, regarding the match with Mayorga, "It is what it is." Mayorga has come up short against every world-class caliber boxer in his prime since he beat Vernon Forrest to win the welterweight title four years ago. Don't expect Mayorga, an awkward free swinger, to play against type against Mosley. ...Pawel Wolak (21-1, 14 KOs), a junior middleweight contender from Brooklyn by way of Poland, will meet Chad Greenleaf (10-10-1, 2 KOs) in a 10-round match at the Huntington (L.I.) Hilton Hotel Friday night.

tsmith@nydailynews.com

Personally, I want to see Williams Margarito II, then Clottey Margarito.

If I had a choice of Cotto Margarito II or Mosley Margarito, I'd prefer Mosley, provided he gets by Mayorga. Over Cotto as Miguel's bout with Marg ended pretty conclusively and I thought Mosley deserved no worse than a Draw with Cotto. So since we saw one already, Mosley would be more interesting.

That said, I don't give him much of a chance to win the fight. Legs don't really move that well. His defense has always been porous. ANd lets face it. He's a pretty spent bullet as it is.

Margarito ko's him inside of 10.

doomeddisciple
09-24-2008, 09:51 PM
The thing that I see distinct from the Cotto/Margarito fight - At least tactically or in terms of fight planning would be to see if Shane's significant body punching ability could be employed more effectivley against Margarito.

Cotto's body punching - And it's been a good 5 weeks since I watched the fight last, so forgive me if I'm wrong - Was conspicuously absent in between evading Margarito's Jason/Michael Voorhees/The Terminator all rolled into one non-stop forward pressure.

I'm not sure Margarito gives opponents the room to work his body - But It's pretty clear to me that Antonio's chin and punch resistance is almost ungodly for the 147lbs division. What I would be interested in seeing is if Shane could use his speed to score enough heavy body shots to at least take a step away from the unstoppable 3.10 to Tijuana.

God - Fighting Tony must be like fighting inside a plastic bag being hit with baseball bats - Being smothered and battered!

I really want to see Williams fight Margarito as a priority - I don't think his foray into Middleweight is overly wise, but I guess if he wants to prepare for another Margarito fight, taking on a middleweight is good prep...

Rafael
09-25-2008, 02:01 AM
Rafael, There was an article which appeared in today's New york Daily news by Tim Smith clearly stating Margarito wants no part of Paul Williams, he turned down flatly a chance to fight him.

As A result, Williams is forced to move up to middleweight because many welterweights, and most notably Margarito refused to even negotiate with him. If Margarito is the big , bad, bold guy many here have suggested, and Floyd ran off because he did not want to face Cotto, and now most recent Margarito, why has Margarito run afraid of Williams?

If that is accurate, it sucks. I'm all against ducking, especially if a good monetary offer was in place. Unlike others on this board, I am not here to defend anyone unconditionally, whether it is Margarito or someone else.

BTW, if Williams is so eager to move up to middle, why did he hold out when Arum made him an offer to face Pavlik a few months ago? I suppose fighting a clubfighter who was creamed by Andre Ward is slightly more appealing, eh?

silk degrees
09-25-2008, 06:36 PM
Rafael, I am with you when you say you won't defend a guy unconditionally. I would rather see the best fights that can be made. I don't want to get into all the red tape about all of this, but as usual, the public gets cheated.

I've defended Floyd in these threads simply because I feel he has left boxing for reasons other than just outright ducking an opponent. Floyd has taken a page out of the Bernard Hopkins book to me by doing just enough to win a round, or fight, which rubs me the wrong way. I just hate when folks make irresponsible statements speaking about a particular fighter has run him out of the sport. The same statement was made about Sugar Ray Leonard until he faced Hearns in '81. We know what happened there.

To answer your question about Williams facing Pavlik, perhaps he was ducking an opponent as well.

MarkD
09-25-2008, 09:38 PM
The only things Smith's article contains is a quote from Dan Goossen, Williams' promoter. What do you expect him to say? I would take that with a grain of salt without any other evidence.



'(Luis) Collazo, (Zab) Judah, (Shane) Mosley, Margarito, (Carlos) Baldomir, you name it, we asked," Goossen said, reciting a virtual Who's Who among welterweights. "It never came down to a matter of money. It was a matter of they just didn't want to get into the ring with Paul. Who blames them, right?"

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/columnists/smith/

silk degrees
09-25-2008, 09:51 PM
Mark I was talking about how many on this board keep pointing out how Mayweather ran from Cotto, Margarito, Pac, and every fighter people on this board can muster up. The fights we really want to see rarely happen. I don't know or care who is ducking who. This ducking business goes back a thousand years. Jack Johnson was said to have ducked certain black fighters after winning the title, we can talk about this til forever.

The Margarito bandwagon suggest he is a beast and everyone is running from him, well seems like he isn't to anxious to get back in the ring with Paul Williams, the very fighter who defeated him, why is that?

MarkD
09-25-2008, 09:57 PM
Mark I was talking about how many on this board keep pointing out how Mayweather ran from Cotto, Margarito, Pac, and every fighter people on this board can muster up. The fights we really want to see rarely happen. I don't know or care who is ducking who. This ducking business goes back a thousand years. Jack Johnson was said to have ducked certain black fighters after winning the title, we can talk about this til forever.

The Margarito bandwagon suggest he is a beast and everyone is running from him, well seems like he isn't to anxious to get back in the ring with Paul Williams, the very fighter who defeated him, why is that?
That's cool I understand that. I would like to see that fight again as well. I just wanted to point out that Smith's article itself doesn't really have any kind of proof or revelation about why the fight is not happening...it's just simply Goossen saying he offered a fight to fighters a, b, and c, which you would expect him to say.

silk degrees
09-25-2008, 10:04 PM
point well taken Mark. Let's wait and see what happens in the next few months with these fights, and whether Mayweather sticks his nose into the proceedings. The interesting thing about the welterweight division to me even if these guys don't fight each other, this division is still better and more interesting than the heavyweight division, sad commentary, but true.

Rafael
09-26-2008, 12:20 AM
Well, Mayweather turned down two career-high offers to fight Margarito (and took paycuts to face easier opponents in both cases). If you'd rather not call that "ducking," fine, but that does not make the avoidance factor go away. It seems to me that the Mayweather squad always finds excuses -unrelated to ducking, of course- for Floyd's avoidance of certain fighters.

Also, out of all of the top welters out there, Margarito (and Quintana if you want to consider him top) is the only one to have faced Williams. I don't believe Mayweather, Cotto, or Mosley ever even entertained the possibility of fighting Williams. In terms of having faced top caliber welters, Margarito has faced Cintron (twice), Williams, Clottey, and Cotto. And Mosley, Mayweather, Mayorga, and Judah all turned down Arum's offers to face Margie. Heck, even Winky Wright turned down a lucrative offer to fight him. So, say what you wish about his not wanting to face Williams again now that he's finally in the position to cash-in on a big win, but Margarito is a guy who has actively tried to make the fights against the top fighters (something we cannot say about Mayweather). As a fan of the sport of boxing (and not a cheerleader for a specific fighter) I find myself more inclined to root for the guys who try to make the good fights (isn't that what all fans want?). In an era in which "name" fighters tiptoe through divisions handpicking opponents as they wish, having a guy consistently trying to make the good fights is really a breath of fresh air.

hawk5ins
09-26-2008, 07:38 AM
Whenever I read about Mayweather's turning down Margarito offers to face easier fighters for less money, I immediately think of Larry Holmes and Greg Page.

In that scenario, Holmes was offered, relatively speaking, a pretty low ball insulting (to him) payday from Don King to face then newly appointed #1 contender Greg Page. Holmes asked for more money, was not given it and instead took an offer to face TWO easier fights (Frank and Frazier) both of whihc was for MORE money. Each Fight he got more dough than what was being offered for Page. (Add to this that following the Frank and Frazier fights, Holmes began negotiating for a Mega payday fight with Gerrie Coetzee which ultimately fell through. Holmes Coetzee unification was a much bigger fight than Holmes Page.).

As Much as Larry has been criticized about that move (not facing Page), I simply can NOT imagine the amount of Flack he would recieve from the masses if he turned down the Page fight to face Frank and Frazier for LESS money.

I think the two scenarios are comparable.

Hawk

Antonia Margarita
09-26-2008, 01:05 PM
mosley still has to get by mayorga to get his opportunity to school the robotic margaritos
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.lvboxing.com/mosleyfront.jpg

silk degrees
09-26-2008, 05:11 PM
Rafael, being the ring leader for Margarito's bandwagon, why is Margarito ducking and hiding from Paul Williams? If your boy Margarito was a true champion he would fight or would want to avenge a loss at the hand of Williams. I am not part of anybody's faction, I could care less about any of these fighters but you keep trying to make excuses for Margarito.

Others have said this as well about you liking Margarito, but Rafael get real, Mayweather was well paid for many of his bouts, and the public wasn't clamoring for a Mayweather-Margarito bout.

Margarito just punked out from facing Paul Williams, case closed.

Rafael
09-26-2008, 07:19 PM
Rafael, being the ring leader for Margarito's bandwagon, why is Margarito ducking and hiding from Paul Williams? If your boy Margarito was a true champion he would fight or would want to avenge a loss at the hand of Williams. I am not part of anybody's faction, I could care less about any of these fighters but you keep trying to make excuses for Margarito.

Others have said this as well about you liking Margarito, but Rafael get real, Mayweather was well paid for many of his bouts, and the public wasn't clamoring for a Mayweather-Margarito bout.

Margarito just punked out from facing Paul Williams, case closed.

There you go again. Did I say that was specifically offensive to you? Why are you so defensive dude? In my post, I did not attack you in any shape or form, and, on top of this, I was not even addressing you in particular. Yet, you once again feel the need of addressing me aggressively and throwing a bunch of flames my way. I really don't understand your attitude. Look at your post man. That is the kind of stuff ("your boy," "punked out," etc.) you expect to see at low quality boards like ESB or fightbeat. Please read around this board and see how many people actually post in that confrontational style. Why are you so sensitive when it comes to this matter? I honestly don't get it. I thought what I posted was pretty reasonable, and in fact, I was under the impression that we had started to converge on this matter.

Oh well.

:confused:

Rubber Warrior
09-26-2008, 10:17 PM
I personally believe that being taller with that long reach, the southpaw stance and with his considerable power, Williams presents an incredibly difficult target for Margarito whereas a smaller Cotto would be a more comfortable style.

Rafael
09-26-2008, 10:36 PM
I personally believe that being taller with that long reach, the southpaw stance and with his considerable power, Williams presents an incredibly difficult target for Margarito whereas a smaller Cotto would be a more comfortable style.


No doubt. It took Margarito about 6 or 7 rounds to figure Williams out the first time, and when he did, it was already too late to catch up. If they fight again -which I'd love to see- Margarito would have to press the action from the get go to have a better shot at winning. It's no coincidence that none of the top welterweights -including Margarito- seem to want any part of Williams.

diggity
09-27-2008, 01:03 PM
silk, Rafael is making opinions just like everyone else did on the thread. Take it easy.

PBF turned down the fight, that is a fact and there is nothing wrong with saying so. I think he would have outboxed the hell out of Margarito but he chose other fights instead. I don't think he was scared of him but it is what it is & he left the scenario up for interpretation. I know the initial offer was huge but quite honestly I dont think it would have panned out to be more money than the other fights he took PPV wise. Given the landscape now, it probably would.

Williams is still a relatively new guy on the block & just avenged his first loss. His matchups will come in due time. There is only so long that you can ignore an 800lb gorilla. I think Margarito will eventually fight Williams again but he apparently is looking to enjoy the wake of his biggest win for a while & he's downright entitled to that.

silk degrees
09-27-2008, 07:07 PM
Diggity I too was only making an opinion, Rafael has been real negative in prior threads towards me, you can look that up. Given this situation at hand, I doubt Mayweather was paid far less than what was said in many of these threads because he turned down the fight with Margarito.

As far as these two fighters meeting, if Mayweather turned down the fight because of money, well he walked away from 20 mil with Delahoya. If Floyd ran away from Margarito because he did not want to fight him, so be it, this is no less than 3 or more threads these conversations arisen about who is ducking who. I think in time Floyd will come back to face these guys and these arguments will prove fruitless.

Kurant
09-30-2008, 12:21 AM
Rafael has had a hard on for the Margie/PBF topic for like 3 years now. :p

Margarito ducking Williams? That absurd to be quite honest. So, here's a little boxing knowledge - Williams just fought in California weighing 157 pounds. On his way to 160 perhaps? Williams might have just left the division all together.

With that said, Cotto to this point hasn't ducked anyone, and from the sounds of HBO on Saturday, he'll be taking on Margarito again. My fear is, if he gets beaten that badly again, how much will Cotto have left? And for god sake, I like Shane, PLEASE at the age of 37 keep him OUT of the ring with Margarito. Didn't he learn enough from Winky? Margarito would probably end his career. It would be VERY ugly.

I might get sick saying this... But Margarito will dominate everyone at 147 pounds. He's relentless. The one guy IMO that could get to him, was Cotto. I personally think Cotto realized how easy he was to hit, and instead of chopping him down at the body, he decided to test the chin. Bad idea, obviously. I still think if anyone at 147 beats him, it's Cotto. He's got every tool to do it, but apparently, it's not enough against Antonio.

I think there are a lot of good match ups in the division. Berto is nothing short of amazing, his hand speed and combos are unreal. Dare I say Pacman? Margarito-Cotto 2. And I guess you just never know with Shane!

It's a good time to be such a huge fan of middle/welter weight boxing!

kikibalt
09-30-2008, 08:08 AM
I don't belive a word Dan Goossen says.....:p

doomeddisciple
09-30-2008, 08:33 AM
As a fan of Sugar Shane - I have no desire to see Jin cradling his sons in tears post his career worst beating.

diggity
09-30-2008, 12:46 PM
I like Berto but I think he gets creamed by the first decent guy he fights who can punch.

Antonia Margarita
09-30-2008, 02:45 PM
berto is a chump
--------------------------------------------------------------------------http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/mosci/CIMG1622.jpg

hawk5ins
09-30-2008, 03:23 PM
Seems out of place on this site.

Hawk

Dan Gunter
09-30-2008, 04:42 PM
Seems out of place on this site.

Hawk
Yeah, but GorDoom is kind and hasn't yet booted me out.

hawk5ins
09-30-2008, 05:23 PM
through the nose and on to the 'puter.

Thanks man.

Hawk

sr71ko
10-01-2008, 02:38 PM
Mosely vs. Margarito would still be a good fight, but that's kind of a tall order for a 37 year old Mosely. For the record I had Mosely winning that Cotto fight by 6-5-1, or 7-5 in rounds for Mosely. Mosely seem to have Cotto hurt in the 10th. I would like to see a Mosely vs. Cotto II or Mosely vs. Forrest III. Can Mosely do a Jersey Joe Walcott(lose first 2 fights against Charles) by beating Forrest like Walcott did Charles in their respective 3rd fights? Mosely is a triple crown champ, but does his legacy need for him to defeat Forrest? Also, is it just me or is Manny Steward kind of crazy? What part of Mosely being a good puncher does he not understand? That left hook that he lands a second before the last round was devastating.

TDKO
10-01-2008, 03:17 PM
sr71...

I think a Cotto Vs. MosleyII makes good sense right now, Cotto can try to reestablish his name, Mosely can keep himself out there right now even at 37 years old. I agree Cotto was hurt in round 10 of their fight, so Shane can put the hurt on him.
Mosley vs. Forest seems like a seniors tour.......though I think Shane would pull off a small points victory in a boring tactical fight nobody would care much about.
That was quite a left hook Shane landed at the end on Mayorga, but it was a free shot on a dead man walking.

PeteLeo
10-01-2008, 06:04 PM
How had the judges scored the first eleven rounds? Would it have made a difference if Mayorga hadn't been stopped (still including the two knockdowns in the twelfth)? PeteLeo.

doomeddisciple
10-02-2008, 12:37 AM
Two had it for Mosley, one for Mayorga.

diggity
11-14-2008, 05:10 PM
Supposedly this fight is almost done.

Kurant
11-15-2008, 02:41 PM
From what I've read, this fight is done, Dig.

Boxrec has it on for Jan 24th, 2009.

Dumb fight IMO. By trend, Shane has always had trouble with taller, longer fighters. Margarito is going to destroy him.

sr71ko
11-18-2008, 08:34 PM
Mosley vs. Margarito? Right now I don't know, but 4-5 years ago I would have beat on Mosley. Mosley at his best beats Margarito, but now? I hope this fight doesn't take place. Yet Mosley is a very skilled warrior that can not be underestimated. I would rather see Mosley fight Cotto in a rematch or perhaps Kermit Cintron or even better Miguel Cotto vs. Kermit Cintron. I think that Mosley will fair better than Cotto, but will that be enough to beat Margarito?

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
11-18-2008, 10:18 PM
Cintron??

http://i29.tinypic.com/2lkwh2b.jpg

Nuff said.

Mosley is going to box circles around Margarito, you heard it here first. STyles.

Husker
11-18-2008, 10:31 PM
Imho, sr71ko: no.

I simply can't imagine a way or manner that the present day Mosley makes it to the final bell. He's gotten a bit stiff-legged and I really, really can't see him having to stand and trade as a result, as much as I think he'll be forced to and be victorious. Add to the fact that Shane's guts and heart are beyond reproach, his father won't be in his corner and it's starting to look like a frightful beating laid on him by Tony, imo.

Still better than seeing Margie get stagnant though...and Shane'll get to go out on his shield.

hawk5ins
11-19-2008, 08:10 AM
We may have a new entry to our "most entertaining One sided beatings" thread.

The fight won't suck that is for sure and we will get our monies worth. But it won't be overly competitive either.

Hawk

diggity
11-19-2008, 05:31 PM
Now I hear this fight is off.

sr71ko
11-19-2008, 05:38 PM
I hope that you are right. Oscar DeLahoya should be the one fighting Margarito instead of Pac-man. I like Mosley, but father time may have robbed him of an opportunity to beat Margarito. Mosley 5-7 years beats Margarito and Cotto(I felt that Mosley won that fight). I just don't want this fight to happen.

diggity
11-19-2008, 06:11 PM
I agree.

doomeddisciple
11-19-2008, 09:35 PM
I've been reading rumours that Margo turned down Mosley. I'm trying to get a proper source but I hope it's the case.

I really don't see why Shane should fight Margo when Shane lost to the guy Margo just KO'd and when Williams or Clottey are both more deserving and have unfinished business with Margo.

diggity
11-19-2008, 10:09 PM
I think a healthy Clottey beats Marg hands down.

doomeddisciple
11-19-2008, 10:14 PM
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=17920&more=1

There's an article.

Cotto rematch in June now according to this...hmmm...

Dig - I reckon Clottey at least deserves another crack.

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
11-19-2008, 10:14 PM
what 'unfinished business' does Williams have with margarit? he exposed, and outboxed him cleanly and won a decision nobody disputes. Willimas have moved on to bigger and better things,

WKS

hawk5ins
11-20-2008, 08:10 AM
But if one were to use the word CLEARLY, I think they would be exxagerating....CLEARLY.

The bout was close. Margarito MADE it close, by closing very strong.

Williams subsequent bump in the road (avenged) following the Margarito loss and Margarito's domination of Cotto makes this a natural at 147.

Did anyone think that Quintana did NOT beat Williams CLEANLY? Was there not unfinished business there? Did WIlliams NOT get a rematch to avenge that loss? Was Williams NOT exposed in that loss?

Why would it be so out of the question then for Williams to square off with Margarito agian? Surely THEIR fight was closer than Williams' loss to Quintana. ANd I would imagine it was a far less embarrasing loss for Antoinio than Williams' loss to Quintana.

If EVER a rematch was warranted....

Hawk

TDKO
11-20-2008, 02:05 PM
Tony SHOULD face Williams again, but......

Lets see, should he fight an easy fight with Shane, or a big money rematch with Cotto, or take on Williams who adjusted well in his loss and looked very sharp in his last go round?
Call the shots now , cuz the time on top may be brief.

Consult the RJJ playbook for the most likely answer

Kurant
11-22-2008, 02:06 PM
what 'unfinished business' does Williams have with margarit? he exposed, and outboxed him cleanly and won a decision nobody disputes. Willimas have moved on to bigger and better things,

WKS

Wow I don't know what fight you watched, but this totally and completely false.

Williams got to him early, once Margarito got him figured out, Williams hung on for dear life. If we still had 15 rounders, Margarito knocks his ass out.

With that said, Margarito stood up after the Cotto fight and said "anybody". Then turns down IMO an easy fight and 2 million from Mosley. Apparently, he's no different then any other prize fighter these days - too bad for that. *coughMayweathercough*

I suspect Williams was having trouble making 147, OR no one REALLY wants to fight him, including Margarito (I don't know WHY he didn't make that fight happen.) and now he's fighting Verno Phillips for a junior middleweight title. Margarito is a thing of the past for him I guess.

Rafael
11-24-2008, 07:40 PM
Antonio Margarito-Shane Mosley Deal Reached For 1/24?
Posted by: Mark Vester on 11-24-2008.

By Mark Vester

According to Francisco Espinoza, co-manager of WBA welterweight champion Antonio Margarito, a deal has been reached for a title defense against Shane Mosley on January 24 in Las Vegas. There were ongoing negotiations for the last few weeks that broke down last Tuesday when Margarito, angry that Mosley wanted a 50-50 split, turned down the fight. Golden Boy Promotions tried to secure WBC champ Andre Berto for Molsey but there were numerous issues ranging from money to Berto losing his title for not making his mandatory obligation against Luis Collazo.

Espinoza told the usually reliable Notifight, that HBO, who put up a previous license fee of $4 million dollars, came to the table with a new offer late Friday night. Team Margarito went over the offer and approved it over the weekend. The previous license fee being put up by HBO was $4 million dollars. Espinoza did not disclose the financial terms of the new deal.

Espinoza told Notifight that Margarito accepted the deal and is making plans for his Los Angeles training camp. More details to come.

Send News Tips and Comments To Mark Vester @ boxingscene@hotmail.com

Rafael
11-24-2008, 08:55 PM
And more....

Antonio Margarito-Shane Mosley Confirmed as Done Deal
Posted by: Robert Morales on 11-24-2008.

By Robert Morales

Bob Arum on Monday confirmed that a last-minute deal has been reached for a Jan. 24 fight between welterweight champion Antonio Margarito of Mexico and "Sugar" Shane Mosley of Pomona, Calif.

It will take place at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas.

The accord came just days after the fight appeared dead in the water. Margarito was not happy with a 50-50 split of the purse and had rejected the fight.

But HBO stepped back up to the plate.

"They agreed to make an additional payment to Margarito through us on the basis that he is the champion and that solidified the deal," said Arum, who promotes Margarito under his Top Rank Inc. banner.

Arum said that Mosley and Richard Schaefer, CEO of Golden Boy Promotions, have signed off on the deal. Arum said Margarito and his management team also have given their approval. Margarito hasn't actually signed the contract, but Arum said that would come "whenever we get everything ready. But it's done."

Arum said that this is going to be a good way to start off 2009, which, until this, had little in the way of big fights scheduled for the first quarter of the new year.

"It's good, competitive fight and that always helps boxing," Arum said. "And people don't have to go to their pocketbooks because it is not a pay-per-view fight."

Robert Morales covers boxing for the Los Angeles Daily News, ESPN.com, Long Beach Press-Telegram, and BoxingScene.com

TDKO
11-24-2008, 10:53 PM
If this fight goes off I feel the same fear for Mosley's health as I did for
Holyfield before Holy/Tyson 1, hope that is not an omen.........

doomeddisciple
11-25-2008, 01:15 AM
I'm glad that Antonio got more money, however I reiterate my fears for Shane's health.

Crold1
01-15-2009, 01:01 AM
Margarito, Mosley, and The Welterweight Crown

By Cliff Rold

Slightly more than one week from now, on January 24th, Mexico’s WBA Welterweight title holder Antonio Margarito (37-5, 27 KO), the “Tijuana Tornado,” will attempt an encore of the biggest win of his career, the still vivid memory of defeating Miguel Cotto sure to play in his mind.

Standing across the ring from him will be an aging warrior seeking yet another validation of his long tenure and, in the wake of increased public evidence of performance enhancing substance usage, a chance at some redemption for “Sugar” Shane Mosley (45-5, 38 KO).

In the sports wonkier press and pundit circles, one debate at play for this fight boils down to a simple question: what role should this bout play in filling the lineal Welterweight crown left vacant on June 6, 2008 by Floyd Mayweather Jr.?

Ring Magazine has decided no direct role at all.

There’s another way to look at it.

The bulk of the Boxing world views Margarito as the best at 147 lbs. He is rated number one by Ring Magazine, Boxing Digest, ESPN, and British-based outlets SecondsOut.com and Boxing Monthly. Mosley is seen as no less than fifth by four of those five outlets. Three fighters consistently come up in the gap between Margarito and Mosley ratings wise: Paul Williams (36-1, 27 KO), IBF titlist Joshua Clottey (35-2, 20 KO), and Cotto (32-1, 26 KO).

BoxingScene, which compiles quarterly divisional ratings using a BCS-style comparative analysis of both independent ratings as well the views of sanctioning bodies, also features WBC titlist Andre Berto (23-0, 19 KO) in its top five.

Around December 12, 2008, Ring’s 35-member ratings advisory panel (with which the author here is involved) received an e-mail from Ring Magazine editor Nigel Collins. Attached was a letter requesting input on the upcoming Welterweight showdown. The letter stated:

As you know, The Ring welterweight championship is currently vacant, and as Margarito is The Ring’s number-one contender he has to be involved in any match to fill the vacancy. Miguel Cotto is number two and Mosley is number three.

While we certainly prefer a bout between number one and number two to fill a vacancy, in certain circumstances The Ring will recognize the winner of a match between number one and number three.

As Margarito has already beaten Cotto, a strong argument can be made for recognizing the Margarito-Mosley fight as being for the vacant title. The fly in the ointment is the fact that Cotto beat Mosley prior to losing to Margarito, which makes it a borderline case.

Therefore, I’m polling The Ring Ratings Advisory Panel to ask you all whether or not you think The Ring should recognize the winner of Margarito-Cotto as the new world champion.

The results of the panel choice were made public by Ring’s Michael Rosenthal on December 22nd. Of 25 responding panelists, “Roughly 55 percent indicated they didn’t want Margarito-Mosley to be for the world championship.” Collins was quoted, adding that a deciding factor for many “was the fact that No. 2 contender Miguel Cotto holds a decision victory over Mosley.”

On December 29th, Ring’s Doug Fischer added in his bi-weekly mailbag:

I was among those on THE RING’s Ratings Panel that voted against the magazine’s world 147-pound title being up for grabs Jan. 24th, and the history between Paul Williams and Margarito, was my chief reason for doing so.

Here’s why: Williams didn’t leave the 147-pound division because couldn’t make the weight or because he felt he’d accomplished all he cared to in that division. Williams ventured to middleweight and junior middleweight this year because he could not secure worthy opponents at welterweight – namely Margarito, but also other top-10 contenders. Williams and his promoter, Dan Goossen, have repeatedly stated that he is willing to return to the 147-pound division for a meaningful fight, namely a rematch with Margarito, but also bouts versus the likes of Mosley, Cotto, Kermit Cintron or Andre Berto.

Also, you know as well as I do that if Margarito were to beat Mosley and win the vacant RING world title, there would be a considerable backlash from fans and some media because of the Tijuana Tornado’s decision loss to Williams in 2007.

Ring’s has not been a universally hailed conclusion.

ESPN’s DanRafael, on January 9, 2009, posted to his blog:

For the record, I strongly disagree with Ring magazine's decision not to allow the Margarito-Mosley fight to be for its vacant welterweight championship. The magazine's championship policy states that title vacancies can be filled by the winner of a fight between a division's No. 1-ranked fighter and the No. 2 fighter, or, in certain instances, a box-off between No. 1 and No. 3. Margarito-Mosley fits the "certain instance" criteria to a tee. Margarito is ranked No. 1 by Ring (and ESPN.com) and Mosley is ranked No. 3 (also by ESPN.com). No. 2 (by both) is Cotto, whom Margarito knocked out in the 11th round in July. Although Mosley lost a tight decision to Cotto in 2007, he bounced back and knocked out Mayorga in spectacular fashion in September. Margarito also holds a victory over No. 4 Clottey. Why not allow Margarito-Mosley to be for the title when No. 2 was just knocked out? It baffles me. When Ring editorialized about why it wouldn't approve the bout for its title, there was some gibberish in the story about Paul Williams and what if he dropped back down to welterweight? I guess he would be in line for a title shot, but he's not a welterweight anymore. He can say he wants to shuttle between divisions all he wants, but facts are facts. Williams, who defeated Margarito in 2007, gave up his sanctioning organization belt and has fought his last two fights at middleweight and junior middleweight, with his next bout scheduled for middleweight. So if Williams decides to come back 147 pounds, fine. He can challenge the winner of Margarito-Mosley, which should be for the title but isn't for some bizarre reason.

Regardless of dispute, Ring won’t recognize the Margarito-Mosley winner as its new Welterweight champion. That much is certain.

It still doesn’t provide a solid answer to the simple question at the heart of this analysis: what role should this bout play in filling the lineal Welterweight crown left vacant on June 6, 2008 by Floyd Mayweather Jr.? After all, Ring’s recognition, and recognition of lineal championships, does not always coincide.

No voice from Ring has ever really disputed that, though they haven’t seem eager correct those who might confuse the ideas. Ring’s choice at the inception of their current title policy to ignore established lineages like the one currently held by Daisuke Naito at Flyweight would give them little leg to stand on if they did. They might make reference to their initial logic about titles being too split over time to make retroactive recognitions, but the same problem is inherent to their policy now as evidenced in arguments about whether Juan Manuel Marquez or Nate Campbell is the true Lightweight champion of the world.

There shouldn’t be any arguments about the Welterweight lineage on Sunday the 25th…if Margarito wins clean.

Read the Rest at: http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=17891

prodigious1
01-16-2009, 10:09 PM
I both hope and think Shane is going to add to the confusion when he tames the tornado.

prototypeofamodernmadman
01-16-2009, 10:42 PM
As dominant, invincible, and dangerous as Margarito has looked lately, I can't help but think Mosley has a pretty good chance at the upset, of course, this all depends on what type of gameplan Mosley has devised, and whether he can stick to it when MArgarito tries to turn the fight into a slugfest,

if Mosley uses his speed and boxing skills, and avoids a slugging match (he too foten want's to please the fans at the cost of his great skills) then I can see him edging Margarito by either 8-4 or 7-5, Margarito is pretty damn sloppy, and throws awkawrd, slow, telegraphed shots from the outside, and I've noticed that a lot of the time he will just throw sloppy bombs out there in the hope that one might land, I like Mosley to generate a ton of counter punching opportunities off of these wild shots,

of course this is if Mosley fights a near perfect fight, a lot of if's in this, I personally feel he has done enough and should have hung them up after the Cotto fight, he can only take unnecessary further punishment at this stage that will unfortunately affect him later in life, (and visibly already has)

diggity
01-17-2009, 02:29 AM
I have a hard time believing Mosely can box & keep Margarito honest all night if Cotto couldn't.

Crold1
01-17-2009, 11:01 AM
Mosley has never been much of a 'boxer' anyways Dig; he's always been too much fighter and at 37 that could be trouble.

JLP 6
01-17-2009, 01:45 PM
Margarito is going to retire Mosley in the 7th and from boxing. He is too hungry and has the firepower to back it up. Mosley will be back in there with Forest/Wright + Pryor.

Should be a can't miss for fight of the year nominie.

prodigious1
01-17-2009, 02:55 PM
I don't expect Shane to do too much boxing and moving out there. I expect him to stand in with Margarito, and I think he can win that kinda fight. He's not a boxer, more of a fighter. I think he'll land the bigger shots all night and take advantage of his speed by beating Tony to the shot and countering him with bombs when Margarito does close in on him, letting his hands go with his head wide open.

Margarito needs that forward momentum. If Shane stands his ground, gets off first, and does some holding, I think he can screw up Tony's rhythm.

Cotto moved too much. Gave him too much respect, and the fact is, he doesn't take near the punch Mosley can.

Shane by close decision. The idea that no one can stand in with Tony... I don't buy it. Shane will do it. He'll throw some movement in there and potshot a little with lead left hooks and overhand rights, but he'll stand his ground more often than not.

Don't be fooled into putting everything into their last fight. They really don't have anything to do with this one. Big, QUICK boxers, give Shane the most trouble. Not big, slow offensive guys who want to rumble with him. We'll see if Marg brings the same intensity he brought for Cotto, or if he has lost something from the wars he has been in through the years.

Shane isn't at his best anymore, but he can win this fight.

sr71ko
01-17-2009, 03:57 PM
I didn't want this fight to happen. At age 37, Margarito most likely will be too much for Mosley. However, Mosley is better conditioned, has a better chin, and is more durable than Cotto. Mosley can box and punch, 5-7 years ago I would favor Mosley, but if Mosley does some how win.....it wouldn't be that big an upset, maybe a mild upset. However, Roy Jones, Oscar, and some others have all went down recently, Mosley will most likely suffer a decision loss, but I will be rooting for Mosley.

JLP 6
01-17-2009, 04:38 PM
To me. If Shane wins it would a huge, huge upset. Most people believe that Mayweather cannot beat Margarito. Williams I don't think could do it again.

Who can stop Antonio at his best? Mosley? The guy who went 12 hard rounds with Mayorga? Really Margarito is the most unbeatable fighter in the game. Him or Pacquiao. Take your pick. Mosley is walking into an all-time bout because of his heart and power, but he is walking into the worst match-up he could take.

He should have tried to make a Mayweather fight when he had the chance. Give me Margarito to make another statement towards his own greatness.

TDKO
01-17-2009, 05:20 PM
Shane will not outwork Tony, and may have a moment or two in this fight,
but Tony's relentless pressure and body attack are going to be enough to
wear down Shane, and put him in survival mode around round eight or so, then Tony gets an easy UD, I think with Tony's size and reach advantages this is a bad matchup for Shane at any age...

evander
01-17-2009, 06:30 PM
Shane will not last the distance. He can only fight one way moving forward, throwing one punch at a time. He's going to stand right in front of Antonio as long as he can before he's belted out. Margarito TKO 12.

prodigious1
01-17-2009, 07:08 PM
There is no way in Hell Shane gets stopped. No chance. This is a 12 round fight if ever there was one.

Shane doesn't have to outwork Marg to beat him, either. He just has to land the bigger, showier shots, which he can do.

I seriously doubt Margarito ever hits 100 punches a round in there.

diggity
01-17-2009, 07:43 PM
A lot of good opinions in here.

Mosley without a doubt has the ability to edge Margarito in a close fight but I just can't see it happening at 37. I have not seen enough from Mosley in recent years to suggest he doesn't eventually get run over by Margarito. It took 12 rounds to chop down Mayorga who is an easier target than Margarito and only had 1 punch to worry about. He went a full fight with Collazo who I think he would have KOd back in the day. Vargas was a spent corpse...so...

It will be a great fight but if Cotto cannot hurt Margarito, I can't see how Mosley will. I see the fight unfolding much the same way as Margarito-Cotto. Mosley will have his moments but I think he will ultimately be stopped. As Cliff said, he has always been too brave for his own good.

The blueprint to Margarito is to outwork him & and use physical advantages ala Williams, who I think will beat Margarito in the rematch.

evander
01-17-2009, 09:43 PM
There is no way in Hell Shane gets stopped. No chance. This is a 12 round fight if ever there was one.

Shane doesn't have to outwork Marg to beat him, either. He just has to land the bigger, showier shots, which he can do.

I seriously doubt Margarito ever hits 100 punches a round in there.

Wanna bet on it? I didn't say Mosley will get knocked out, just said he will not make the distance. And I guarantee Mosely will get hit more than he's ever been hit before.HE doesn't have the reflexes to avoid anything anymore. He'll get hit on the tail end of Margarito's shots just as he did vs Forrest 1. Mosely has no jab, no footwork, cannot punch in volume and has lost alot of speed. He's a one punch at a time fighter who can't pull the trigger the way he used to. I like Mosely but he should have fought Margarita when he was a bit younger, rather than a shop worn 37yr old fighter.

diggity
01-17-2009, 10:34 PM
I agree. His remaining accuracy, speed & reflexes is what kept him in the fight with Cotto.. a smaller guy with not the greatest mobility. Mosley in his prime never really "utilized" a great defense other than his offense. He fell in love with his power from BALCO lifting & the rest was history. I can't tell you how many people I knew in LA who heard Mosley brag about benching over 315.

prodigious1
01-18-2009, 08:14 PM
Wanna bet on it?

Money? No. But if you're right I'll give you props for calling it. Mosley won't be getting stopped.

don1234
01-18-2009, 09:56 PM
This will be a hell of a fan fight. Mosley will fight his heart out, he always has. In a fight laced with heated exchanges I would expect a distance win for the big guy. Does this fight do Mosley any good, win or lose? He's a fighter, it's what he does.

Kyoodle
01-18-2009, 11:02 PM
Getting back to the original thread header: I like Margarito big in this one. He has momentum in his favor, is physically at the top of his game--with no artificial ingredients, either, and is in no danger whatsoever of Shane hurting him, regardless of how many shots he takes to the mush (and he'll take plenty the first four or five stanzas).

While keeping his father out of the corner for this one is a good idea, Shane--at 37 years of age--is too set in his ways to have the capacity to learn anything from Nazim during training camp. But at least he'll have someone in his corner to throw some strategies at him, something Jack Mosley was simply derelict in as chief second in Shane's losses to Wright (1st), Forrest and Cotto.

Shane's body is going to betray him in this one, as he'll jump out in front, boxing smartly and keeping away from Margarito's power. By the mid-rounds Shane's legs are going to stop moving, allowing Antonio to get inside him and rough him up. It gets uglier from there as both guys will start clinching, butting, and trading inside with Shane getting the worst of it all.

Shane, champion's heart aside, will not be coming out of his corner for the 12th round.

Now remember, I haven't picked a winner in an important fight since Kenny Norton walloped Bobick in the Adam's Apple at the Garden. So go heavy in the other direction and thank me later.

Kyoodle

mrbig1
01-19-2009, 12:32 AM
I'm going with Mosley in this fight. He's going to out work and out punch Marganito . It's just going to be one bomb at a time for A.M. Plus Cotto would have won if he just tie up Margarito on the inside. Mosley will not make that same mistake. 12 UD for Mosley.

doomeddisciple
01-19-2009, 02:41 AM
I just can't see Shane winning this fight and in many ways I have no favourite in this fight just like the Margaritto Cotto fight. Supplements aside I will never dislike Shane as a fighter and I just love Margaritto's hard working style and attitude.

I wouldn't be shocked for Mosley to find a way to win, but I am concerned for his health and think that Margaritto stops him at some point after 8 rounds.

That said best of luck Shane!

Off The River
01-19-2009, 04:06 AM
I just can see Mosely's one bomb at a time boxing working against Margarito. He is no volume puncher and I, like others don't think his legs will hold up in this one. I can see a late stoppage again for Margarito in this one.

I Like Shane, but Margarito has been my favourite fighter for years now. I hope Shane walks awaay from this one healthy.

walshb
01-19-2009, 05:31 AM
I think Shane can do well here. I like Marg; but he is very beatable and very methodical and predictable. I think his style suits Mosley. I know a peak Mosley does it; but can an aging Mosley do it? I am worried that the older Mosley will only be able to fight in round spurts and will not be able to maintain enough offense to win. But clever tactics, his chin and his heavier hitting (Cotto) may see Mosley win this.

I am going to call a Mosley points win here!

Off The River
01-19-2009, 06:53 AM
I see Margarito giving Shane trouble at anytime in his career. Too much constant pressure on a guys whose best wins at welterweight were against a guy who faded late. Margarito will not fade, is bigger and stronger as well.

There was a reason why he never fought him befpre IMO.

prodigious1
01-20-2009, 05:29 AM
I wrote a 2 part analysis for my blog, designed to present a case for a Mosley victory. You can check it out at theboxingbulletin.blogspot.com if you have some time. It's a very interesting fight. Tony doesn't have all his usual advantages for this one. Size, strength, toughness are a wash, in my opinion. Shane has the athletic advantage, while Tony will be throwing more shots.

Can't wait!

Punchdrunk
01-20-2009, 02:35 PM
Nice Blog Lee! Very impressive page, liked it enough to put in my favorites to check your future articles. I recommend everyone here on the zone to check it out.
Gary

prodigious1
01-23-2009, 09:38 PM
Thanks, man. Glad you enjoyed it.

If anyone is wondering, I still like Shane to gut it out. :)

Crold1
01-23-2009, 11:47 PM
Yeah Prod; blog looks good.

mrbig1
01-24-2009, 01:20 AM
Thanks, man. Glad you enjoyed it.

If anyone is wondering, I still like Shane to gut it out. :)
Me and you both bro. I see Mosley jumping in landing combos then move out of harms way. Tying up A.M. on the inside is the key. Plus A.M. is sooooooo slow. If he threw a punch today it might hit Mosley by Saturday. Mosley by 12 UD.

diggity
01-24-2009, 01:33 AM
Wow, I'm starting to wonder if everyone saw the same Mosely I saw that lost to Cotto...
How he would do better against Margarito, I still can't see it.
Cotto punches harder no or am I crazy?

prodigious1
01-24-2009, 01:47 AM
Cotto has things that Margarito doesn't have, like quick hands and feet. He's also not as wide open. He really kept his hands high vs Shane.

mrbig1
01-24-2009, 01:55 AM
Wow, I'm starting to wonder if everyone saw the same Mosely I saw that lost to Cotto...
How he would do better against Margarito, I still can't see it.
Cotto punches harder no or am I crazy?
Cotto is also 3 times faster than A.M. When Cotto had Margarito in the center of the ring he made him his bitch. Only when A.M. caught Cotto against the rope was he able to land big shots. If Cotto had tie A.M. up along the rope waiting for the ref to break them then move back to the center of the ring. If he had done that Cotto wins easy. Mosley will not make the same mistake. In order for Margarito to win in the center of the ring he would have to outbox Mosley and thats not going to happen.

mrbig1
01-24-2009, 02:00 AM
One more thing if I may. With all the shit fights on PPV I can't believe this one is on HBO.

Crold1
01-24-2009, 02:35 AM
Cotto is also 3 times faster than A.M. When Cotto had Margarito in the center of the ring he made him his bitch. Only when A.M. caught Cotto against the rope was he able to land big shots. If Cotto had tie A.M. up along the rope waiting for the ref to break them then move back to the center of the ring. If he had done that Cotto wins easy. Mosley will not make the same mistake. In order for Margarito to win in the center of the ring he would have to outbox Mosley and thats not going to happen.

No one ever made Marg their bitch...and he never caught Cotto against the ropes., He put him there with constant pressure.

diggity
01-24-2009, 02:40 AM
I'm still looking for proof that Mosley can do something different than Cotto did. All I can see is that he has better stamina than Cotto but more of a propensity to trade when he doesn't need to than Cotto. The 2 kind of cancel each other out IMO?

The closest thing to taming Margarito was Williams with reach & workrate, maybe Santos with good tactical movement & accurate counterpunching...
Margarito was never anyone's bitch.

PeteLeo
01-24-2009, 03:13 AM
Mayorga is basically a walking corpse now, yet he was well in the fight against Mosley right to the end. Somehow Shane's rooting section is convincing themselves this washed up guy is actually going to be competitve with Margarito.

It's not going to be close, and it is going to be ugly. And Mosley ain't gonna win. PeteLeo.

GorDoom
01-24-2009, 11:56 AM
Cliff Rold, Crold on the board will do the honors tonight. Me & I'm sure many others thank him because in these economic times a lot of us have given up HBO & Showtime. So Cliff covering this is much appreciated.

Per usual please keep all posts about this fight to this thread. Redundant threads will be deleted.

thanks,

GorDoom

evander
01-24-2009, 12:00 PM
Mayorga is basically a walking corpse now, yet he was well in the fight against Mosley right to the end. Somehow Shane's rooting section is convincing themselves this washed up guy is actually going to be competitve with Margarito.

It's not going to be close, and it is going to be ugly. And Mosley ain't gonna win. PeteLeo.


Agreed.

kikibalt
01-24-2009, 12:57 PM
Margarito-Mosley weigh-in has some drama

http://i44.tinypic.com/s27had.jpg
At the weigh-in for Antonio Margarito-Shane Mosley world welterweight title fight was a bit more dramatic than expected.

Mosley bounced off the scale when it hit the limit 147 pounds and was ordered back on by a California State Athletic Commission board member, then weighed in at 147.2 pounds.

He had two hours to trim the scant ounces, while champion Margarito weighed in at 145.8 pounds.

Mosley needed less than 10 minutes, weighing at a perfect 147.0. Knowing our readers demand complete information, I asked him how he shed the weight and he glanced at me impatiently.

"Used the restroom," he said.

-- Lance Pugmire

mrbig1
01-24-2009, 01:40 PM
Margarito-Mosley weigh-in has some drama

http://i44.tinypic.com/s27had.jpg
At the weigh-in for Antonio Margarito-Shane Mosley world welterweight title fight was a bit more dramatic than expected.

Mosley bounced off the scale when it hit the limit 147 pounds and was ordered back on by a California State Athletic Commission board member, then weighed in at 147.2 pounds.

He had two hours to trim the scant ounces, while champion Margarito weighed in at 145.8 pounds.

Mosley needed less than 10 minutes, weighing at a perfect 147.0. Knowing our readers demand complete information, I asked him how he shed the weight and he glanced at me impatiently.

"Used the restroom," he said.

-- Lance Pugmire
Good job Sir.

Mike DeLisa
01-24-2009, 08:49 PM
Once again, I encourage all who are watching to score the bout live -- To score the fight follow this link -- you have to register but it is very easy and cool!

Launch Scorecard

Crold1
01-24-2009, 11:12 PM
Hey fellas...excited for this one. Love the new HBO graphics too.

Tonight we have:

The Ledgers

Antonio Margarito
Age: 30
Title: WBA Welterweight (2008-Present, 0 Defenses)
Height: 5’11
Hails from: Tijuana, Mexico
Record: 37-5, 25 KO
Record in Title Fights: 11-2, 1 No Contest (9 KO)
Previous Titles: WBO Welterweight (2002-07, 8 Defenses); IBF Welterweight (2008, 0 Defenses)
Current/Former World Champions/Titlists Defeated: 4 (Andrew Lewis, Kermit Cintron (Twice), Joshua Clottey, Miguel Cotto)
Current/Former World Champions/Titlists Faced in Defeat: 2 (Daniel Santos (also 1 No Contest), Paul Williams)

Vs.

Shane Mosley
Age: 37
Title: None
Height: 5’9
Hails from: Pomona, California
Record: 45-5, 38 KO
Record in Title Fights: 14-5, 11 KO
Previous Titles: IBF Lightweight (1997-99, 8 Defenses); World/WBC Welterweight (2000-02, 3 Defenses); World/WBC/WBA Jr. Middleweight (2003-04, 0 Defenses)
Current/Former World Champions/Titlists Defeated/No Contested: 8 (Phillip Holiday, John John Molina, Jesse James Leija, Oscar De La Hoya, Raul Marquez (NC), Fernando Vargas, Luis Collazo, Ricardo Mayorga)
Current/Former World Champions/Titlists Faced in Defeat: 3 (Vernon Forrest, Winky Wright, Miguel Cotto)

GorDoom
01-24-2009, 11:17 PM
Nice set up, Cliff! You definitely laid out their respective bonafides...

GD

Crold1
01-24-2009, 11:23 PM
Pulled it out of my pre-fight piece this week. :)

Sharkey
01-24-2009, 11:23 PM
Any corroboration on this one from Dan Rafael?:

Welterweight titleholder Antonio Margarito was forced to re-wrap his hands before Saturday night's defense against Shane Mosley at Staples Center after Mosley trainer Nazim Richardson discovered an abnormality during the pre-fight inspection.


"It was a plaster-like substance," Golden Boy Promotions attorney Stephen Espinoza told ESPN.com. "It was bagged up by the commission and taken as evidence."
Espinoza said that Dean Lohuis, co-executive director of the California State Athletic Commission, said it was discovered under both of Margarito's wraps.
Margarito's camp could not be reached for comment.
Richardson originally had objected to the amount of tape on Margarito's hands and when it was removed, the foreign substance was discovered, Espinoza said.
Richardson, who trains Bernard Hopkins, had also objected to Felix Trinidad's hand wraps before their historic 2001 undisputed middleweight championship fight. Trinidad was forced to have his hands re-wrapped and Hopkins went on to knock him out in the 12th round to unify titles.

Crold1
01-24-2009, 11:35 PM
Round One

Both are letting the jab go...Mosley misses lead left...hard right for Shane...Mosley cut but Marg lands a left...Marg landing lots of short shots inside...grappling...Mosley left hook in exchange...more grappling and Tony is trying to lean on the older mans legs it seems...two Tony jabs...right from Mosley and Marg misses two to the body.

Mosley 10-9

Round Two

Marg measuring with the jab...Marg missing wild with the right...trading jabs...Marg right grazes...short right inside...Mosley right to the ribs...lots of short stuff in another inside exchange...Marg isn't fighting with anything like the urgency of the Cotto fight.

Mosley 20-18

Round Three

Marg double jab and right...Shane hard 1-2...Marg right and Mosley retreats...Mosley right and left blocked but Marg left gets through...Marg right cut...two slapping lefts in a clinch and Marg complains of a butt...Mosley right...right and left hooks from same...Mosley right to the body...Two HARD Mosley rights and a left while Marg lands his own left...closer round.

Mosley 30-27

Round Four

Mosley wisely keeps locking up the Marg left inside...BIG Mosley rights to the body and head...Hard Marg left hook...Another Mosley right and another clinch and I was wrong; the old man is latching on...Marg right and left...THREE Mosley rights.

Mosley 40-36

Round Five

Marg left and right and a Mosley right a minute in...Marg right and left...Marg right cut inside...Mosley right...thre hard Marg shots, one high two low...another clipping Marg cut...they trade long rights...Snapping Mosley left...and a right after a spot flurry...another Mosley right.

Mosley 50-45

Round Six

Mosley right...another...Marg body shots being muffled...another Mosley right and Marg is backing up...action on the ropes; both land but Mosley finishes by blowing Marg's sweat into the fans with another right...Marg looks ready to be stopped.

Mosley 60-54

Lost my computer guys for a bit...Round Seven may have gone to Marg on work rate (69-64) but Mosley was just resting. Mosley shit blasted Marg late in the eighth, starting with a right and finishing with nasty left hooks (79-72).

Marg had nothing at the start of the ninth (or anytime earlier) and was stopped at :43 seconds of the round.

Crold1
01-25-2009, 12:09 AM
Lost my computer guys for a bit...Round Seven may have gone to Marg on work rate (69-64) but Mosley was just resting. Mosley shit blasted Marg late in the eighth, starting with a right and finishing with nasty left hooks (79-72).

Marg had nothing at the start of the ninth (or anytime earlier) and was stopped at :43 seconds of the round.

Off The River
01-25-2009, 12:10 AM
Well..........

I never saw that coming in a million years. A great performance by Shane. He just had too much speed for my man Antonio.

Dan Gunter
01-25-2009, 12:10 AM
Jesus Christ. I was completely wrong about this one.

theironbar
01-25-2009, 12:11 AM
Wow -- I was worried for Mosely's health before the fight... oops... is there an embarrassed emoticon?

bomma
01-25-2009, 12:11 AM
Holy Shit!!! I am shocked! SSM was unbelievable tonight. He crushed Margarito, crushed him completely. Maybe the hand rapping controversy had Margarito off tonight. But man he was crushed.

TDKO
01-25-2009, 12:11 AM
Holy #$^%$^%!!

Shane walked into the ring with an angry look rather then his typical smile, and proceeded to channel his demons into a masterfull performance!
Tony was not in this fight!

Prescient of Sharkey about the handwraps and Trinidad's first destruction,
intimating what lead to tonights result....

mrbig1
01-25-2009, 12:13 AM
The fight went the way I thought it would. Mosley saw video of the Cotto fight. His back never touch the ropes. He kept A.M. in the center of the ring and beat the hell out of A.M. Remember one thing boxing is not a back ally brawl. It's a sport, It's art. Skill and talent is still the key to victory.

kikibalt
01-25-2009, 12:17 AM
I pick Margarito to win this fight because of Mosley's age, but I have always said that Margarito is not a well school fighter, he tough, but thats all he has...

GorDoom
01-25-2009, 12:18 AM
So true, Mr. Big.

GorDoom

Husker
01-25-2009, 12:19 AM
Mr. Baltazar, I'm with you 100% but I just didn't think Shane had a snowball's chance. Watching that was eye-opening to me and I feel just like I did when Rahman KO'd Lewis. Not shocked that it happened but shocked by who did it.

Kid Dynamite
01-25-2009, 12:19 AM
Never saw this coming. I wrote off Mosley after his two loses to Winky a few years ago. I was surprised he did so well against Cotto.

I havent seen Mosley look this good in years.

Crold1
01-25-2009, 12:20 AM
Tough can get you a long way; Basilio was no Pep after all. Mosley did something no one else has ever come close to. Full props though I can see this hand plaster story getting nasty.

TDKO
01-25-2009, 12:21 AM
Holy #$^%$^%!!

Shane walked into the ring with an angry look rather then his typical smile, and proceeded to channel his demons into a masterfull performance!
Tony was not in this fight!

Prescient of Sharkey about the handwraps and Trinidad's first destruction,
intimating what lead to tonights result....

hawk5ins
01-25-2009, 12:27 AM
try and temper my reaction to this outcome, because like most here, I did NOT see this coming. The reason for that was Mosley and how he looked agianst Mayorga.

I thought the Cotto fight was a Draw. He looked GOOD, that night, but not great. Agianst Mayorga, with the exception of the end of the fight, Mosley looked like a very old, well past his prime fighter.

He looked brilliant tonight. But to Frank B.'s point, Margarito looked extremely ordinary. A Tough hard, strong kid, but not much else.

I said earlier today that I didn't think Mosley merited HOF entrance (although by the current Canastota standards, he'd get in), I amend that. Based on tonight's performance, I say he's a lock for the Hall.

This to me, was less a performance that cemented greatness, as I have some clear questions about Margarito's value, and more about a fighter (Mosley) showing up and giving one last brilliant performance that brought him a title in a bout he was not supposed to win.

It was a Cherry on the top of the cake, or an exclamation point on a career, that really required this type of punctuation, to put him over the hump.

Congratulations Shane.

Hawk

evander
01-25-2009, 12:27 AM
"Crowe" taste like shit! I recommend that none of you try it.

diggity
01-25-2009, 12:27 AM
Waiter? Largest plate of crowe you have for me please.

Holy shit.
That was one of the best turn the clock back appearances I've ever seen.
I am completely & totally humbled at such a dominating performance.
Mosley fought with balls you rarely see these days.
You have to wonder if he would have done this well 10 years ago.
He fought like had nothing to live for.
What a fuckin treat.
Margarito never knew what hit him.
Boxing wins tonight.

Kurant
01-25-2009, 12:28 AM
I don't even know what to say.

I've always said Margarito was overrated. Then he beat Cotto and I ate my words. But the wraps tonight, the fact that Shane destroyed him. I never thought this would be the outcome tonight. I was really hoping Shane would show up, but I never pictured that.

I don't know. I hope boxing goes deeper into this issue with the wraps. I'd agree with you Dig, but boxing gets another black mark against it. The hand wraps thing is fairly disturbing.

This is the type of fight that puts fighters on the downswing, I hope Margarito takes time and recovers fully before indulging back into the fight game. He's entertaining, and good for the sport. Despite the fact I just never thought he was that good, he's still good for boxing.

Crold1
01-25-2009, 12:32 AM
Marg wasn't overrated (okay, Graham Houston saying he could have beat benitez was overrating but I digress). Marg's fought more top ten guys at Welter than anyone this decade and lost once, barely, to a freak in PWill. This was just a great night for Mosley.

mrbig1
01-25-2009, 12:39 AM
As I said before Cotto was killing A.M. in the center of the ring. Where he went wrong was being on the rope without tying up A.M. I knew Mosley would not make the same mistake as I said in the predictions and discussion thread. I don't want to seem like mister know it all because I've been wrong many times before. I was very sure about this one. A.M. fights one way. when you take that away he's done.

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
01-25-2009, 12:47 AM
Sugar sHane finishes the job that P-Will started. I saw this coming a million miles away. Shane exposed Margarito once again,

WKS

Crold1
01-25-2009, 12:51 AM
PWill never came close to doing what Shane did and weather a brutal storm late. This was a revelatory performance tonight and no one who has faced Marg at Welter since he lost to Rod Jones in 96 has ever beaten him easy.

prodigious1
01-25-2009, 12:51 AM
Sugar Shane Mosley, ladies and gentlemen. You don't beat him by trying to out offense him.

I guess the speed, power and overall athletic edge was enough.

This is one of the best boxing nights of my life. Maybe the best.


edit- Shane by KO and the under? Wow.

hawk5ins
01-25-2009, 12:52 AM
I don't think, at least from my point of view, that this was a case of overrating Margarito. I didn't think Shane would win becuase I thought he was done.

Now did I think prior to the fight, would Shane at his best have ever beaten Margarito at his best? Honestly, I never even thought about it.

When this bout was announced, I just thought it was going to end ugly for Shane as to me, he was toast.

In hindsight and based on what I saw tonight, Shane at his best INDEED would have dominated Margarito.

Simply based on the Cotto fight, I never envisioned where Margarito was on an "All time" level at 147. He'd had one performance, the Cotto win, with whihc gave him consideration in being mentioned among the best pound for pound of the current group of fighters fighting today.

For me, prior to getting into All Time rankings, a Margarito has to do more than beat Miguel Cotto. And he has to do it for a while.

I viewed Margarito as the BEST welterweight on the planet when Shane fought him tonight. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I did not think Shane would beat him tonight.

More becuase of what I assumed Shane no longer had, than for what I thought of Margarito.

But you are right. The props belong to Shane tonight.

Hawk

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
01-25-2009, 12:52 AM
I see Mosley easily outboxing Margritos in the same way that Paul Williams did,

WKS


WKS

Are you a betting man?

WKS

Husker
01-25-2009, 12:52 AM
mr.big:very good point. Margie takes so long to uncoil his shots, if you're in ring center and can move, he's woefully out of position after missing and it takes him so long to reset. Against the ropes, his landing percentage shoots up (staionary target) and he's able to reload quicker. Shane played the range game exceptionally well. And his timing was fantastic.

While I've never been screaming for Tony to be recognized as an all-timer and we all recognized his weaknesses, it still (imo)takes a special guy/performance to beat him that convincingly. That was complete and utter domination.

kikibalt
01-25-2009, 12:53 AM
Other then the Cotto fight, Margarito has alway looked ordinary, nothing special, any fighter with decent skill will make him look bad most of the time, lots of people got high on Margarito because of his win over Cotto, which I think was misleading...

Crold1
01-25-2009, 12:55 AM
Hawk:
He HAS been doing it for awhile. He's faced more guys who held belts in the division than any other Welter this decade and just barely lost to one of them. The Cotto fight was a validation of how good he'd been all along. Good, not great or some legend...just a very good, deserving fighter who belonged at the elite level in his time. What Mosley did tonight is just awesome stuff in that light.

hawk5ins
01-25-2009, 12:55 AM
I'm glad to join the ranks of the many posters on this site and throughout the boxing community who only possess half a brain.

Cause I didn't see tonights outcome happening the way it did.

I one day hope to have a full brain like "Sucks" does.

Hawk

doomeddisciple
01-25-2009, 01:05 AM
This is waht I wrote in the prediction thread


I just can't see Shane winning this fight and in many ways I have no favourite in this fight just like the Margaritto Cotto fight. Supplements aside I will never dislike Shane as a fighter and I just love Margaritto's hard working style and attitude.

I wouldn't be shocked for Mosley to find a way to win, but I am concerned for his health and think that Margaritto stops him at some point after 8 rounds.

That said best of luck Shane!

I am now concerned for Margaritos health.

While Shane was utterly masterful tonight - I think before writing off Margarito as being overrated etc - That the Cotto fight knocked some miles off of Margarito's odometer.

That was shocking domination and I am just so happy for Mosely - With all the pressure of the BALCO situation sitting over his head that was some vintage Mosley power boxing.

Crold1
01-25-2009, 01:18 AM
IF there were miles knocked off Marg's odometer, it wasn't the Cotto fight. It was being in a lot of wars for a 16 year career. But Shane's never been a shrinking violet in there either.

mrbig1
01-25-2009, 01:18 AM
When A.M. beat Cotto it seems like he's the next Jack Dempsey. One fight does not do it for me. The same goes for Mosley. One win over A.M. does not mean he can beat Williams or even Cotto. Let's give Mosley his props tonight but let's not get caught up in the moment. A.M. is a big puncher with a great chin but that's all he is. Still good enough to win against lesser fighters.

Kurant
01-25-2009, 01:21 AM
I wrote him off as overrated after watching him look nothing BUT ordinary on more then one occasion.

Soon as he destroyed Cotto, I ate my words. But Mosely dominated him. He didn't even win a round. Got KO'd, and looked absolutely much less then ordinary. He's never been overly impressive to me except against Cotto, who hasen't been difficult to hit over his career either. He's good, but this wasn't even close, it wasn't even competitive. He was utterly dominated.

Now I'm more concerned that he'll step back in too soon.

Kyoodle
01-25-2009, 01:44 AM
I've never been so happy to have made a wrong prediction in my life. Just a masterful performance by SM, who had Tony blinking in confusion as early as round four. I'd like to see a Compu-Box on how many SM right hands MISSED, which couldn't have been many.

Even though he didn't win a round on anyone's scorecard, AM made it fairly interesting through the first half by virtue of Shane's onrushing offense forcing him to counter. But the preponderance of shots landed by Mosley, who showed no reaction at all to the few shots AM landed, simply took Margarito's spirit away after that.

This was a great, great fight for Mosley and for boxing.

Not so much for HBO and Jim Lampley, who--without benefit of vetting the story they received from Mosley's people--got all breathless about the foreign object found in AM's wraps. First it was a substance that was wet, but would harden when dry. HUH? Then after the fight it was a plastic shield or something. And rather than bring up the most obvious of examples on the subject, namely Resto vs. Collins, Lampley--no doubt prodded by the production crew in the trailer--confuses 75% of the viewing public by referencing Dempsey-Willard...FROM 1919, no less. An apocryphal tale of Plaster of Paris secreted in Dempsey's gloves that has been discredited time and time again, brought back to life by Lampley in an ill-advised and totally irrelevant context. Hey, I appreciated the reference, I guess, but you ain't exactly gonna be drawing in the much-desired younger demographics by dredging up old wives' tales from around a hundred years ago ;-)

Anywho, I'd love to see a newly-energized Mosley take Cotto on again, as a rematch with Margarito seems pretty unlikely and unwanted.

TDKO
01-25-2009, 01:47 AM
Not anymore VKS!

Good call!

Damn, dropped this one and Hop's last........

PeteLeo
01-25-2009, 02:09 AM
Just got in and watched this shocker on DVD, and boy, is my face red. I really thought Mosley was long past it after the Mayorga bout.

Anyhow, it keeps my record as a prognosticator intact: I don't think I've called a winner since Pacquiao-Diaz.

Also, if Margarito & Co. really were trying to cheat by loading the wraps, they got exactly what they deserved. I hated to hear that. PeteLeo.

diggity
01-25-2009, 02:23 AM
I'm really interested to hear what comes out of the wrap situation. Terrible.

robertk
01-25-2009, 03:50 AM
Like everyone else, I liked youth in the matchup. If it was an old Margarito against a youthful Mosely however, the bout wouldn't bear discussion. What is it lately with the young guys not just losing, but getting taken apart in there? Hopkins was masterful as well & now this Mosely result.

I was wondering about the affect of having a different trainer in there for Mosely. I wasn't sure if it'd be good or bad but 1 way or another, figured it to be a factor. It was a factor and he looked like he found that fountain of youth in there and just took the guy apart in there.

Like everyone else said, it'll be interesting to see what transpires from the handwrapping. And I thought the ref let Mosely hold in there quite a bit and he tied up that left hand and avoided those sneaky left uppercuts from Margarito. And the boxing smarts in this bout was about as wide as it gets.

prodigious1
01-25-2009, 03:57 AM
I saw it as offense vs offense. I thought Shane had the better offense. Didn't see the KO coming, but I did think Shane would land the harder shots. Also thought that if anyone was getting hurt, it was Tony.

Inspiring stuff from Suagr Shane.

hawk5ins
01-25-2009, 08:33 AM
"Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
Registered User

Jones should win this fairly easily. Calzaghe could not handle Hopkins speed, and even got floored by the light hitting middlewieght,

WKS"

Glad to see your computer problem is fixed now.

You must have really been bummed out that you could not weighin with your gloating following that prognostication special huh?

Hawk

HE Grant
01-25-2009, 08:50 AM
I've always loved Shane and tonight he was great. I'm surprised how he was able to hurt the often refered to iron chinned Margarito when he could not hurt Cotto ... maybe he borrowed Margarito's wraps ...

Kyoodle
01-25-2009, 09:40 AM
I saw it as offense vs offense. I thought Shane had the better offense. Didn't see the KO coming, but I did think Shane would land the harder shots. Also thought that if anyone was getting hurt, it was Tony.

Inspiring stuff from Suagr Shane.

ANOTHER nice call from Prod...good work!

hawk5ins
01-25-2009, 10:29 AM
would have echoed Prod's call if I thought Mosley still was Mosley.

Problem was, based on the Mayorga fight, I thought Mosley was toast.

He proved to us he was not.

Hawk

mrbig1
01-25-2009, 11:13 AM
IF there were miles knocked off Marg's odometer, it wasn't the Cotto fight. It was being in a lot of wars for a 16 year career. But Shane's never been a shrinking violet in there either.
Question for you sir. Did Mosley make A.M. his bitch it the center of the ring? Sorry bro just a little dig to you sir, all in fun.:D I can't say anything. I'm the one who said DLH would KO Pacman before the 5th. This is why I never bet on boxing. The last time I bet on a fight was Hearns vs Leonard. I was so sure Hearns was going to win. There's a 100 clams out the window.

Crold1
01-25-2009, 11:17 AM
He beat him; I don't go for saying anyone makes someone his bitch. However, Mosley didn't just beat him in the center anyways. Mosley beat Marg on the ropes as well.

mrbig1
01-25-2009, 11:29 AM
Let's not count A.M. out yet. He can still beat alot of fighters out there. He just can't beat a fighter with the skills of SSM. I'm sure Cotto is kicking himself in the ass right now for fighting the wrong fight. If Cotto had tied up A.M. along the ropes he would have won with ease. Even with loaded gloves.

hawk5ins
01-25-2009, 11:45 AM
Between who was successfull when the fight was on the ropes between Mosley Margarito and Margarito Cotto, was WHO was fighting OFF of the Ropes.

Cotto was unsuccessful fighting off of the ropes agianst Antonio. Mosley had Antonio against the ropes and he was successful. Shane never was fighting AM with his OWN back agianst the ropes.

Shane tied up Margarito successfully when backed up to the ropes.

This IMO was key.

Shane fought very smart.

Oh and btw, for those saying this proves Mayweather would have beaten AM, while I'm not saying Floyd definitely would or would not have, not much can be taken from Last nights fight. The difference in types of fights both are willing and able to fight, is night and day.

ANYONE thinking Floyd fights AM anywhere remotely close to the way Shane did, hasn't been paying attention.

Shane's power got Margarito's attention and respect. I'm not entirely certain the punches Floyd would land on Antonio, has anywhere near the same impact on what Margarito would be determined to do. Anyone see Floyd backing AM to the ropes?

Then agian, Marg, may be ruined by this fight mentally and confidence wise. And Floyd now may be more than willing to take that paltry $8 mill. to get it on with Antonio.

Hawk

mrbig1
01-25-2009, 11:55 AM
Between who was successfull when the fight was on the ropes between Mosley Margarito and Margarito Cotto, was WHO was fighting OFF of the Ropes.

Cotto was unsuccessful fighting off of the ropes agianst Antonio. Mosley had Antonio against the ropes and he was successful. Shane never was fighting AM with his OWN back agianst the ropes.

Shane tied up Margarito successfully when backed up to the ropes.

This IMO was key.

Shane fought very smart.

Oh and btw, for those saying this proves Mayweather would have beaten AM, while I'm not saying Floyd definitely would or would not have, not much can be taken from Last nights fight. The difference in types of fights both are willing and able to fight, is night and day.

ANYONE thinking Floyd fights AM anywhere remotely close to the way Shane did, hasn't been paying attention.

Shane's power got Margarito's attention and respect. I'm not entirely certain the punches Floyd would land on Antonio, has anywhere near the same impact on what Margarito would be determined to do. Anyone see Floyd backing AM to the ropes?

Then agian, Marg, may be ruined by this fight mentally and confidence wise. And Floyd now may be more than willing to take that paltry $8 mill. to get it on with Antonio.

Hawk I agree 100%.

jim glen
01-25-2009, 11:55 AM
WOW!!!
textbook boxing, beautiful stuff and the only way to beat a bigger stronger and in this case younger man...

a 'jab' the way it was meant to be used, as a defencive and offencive tool. Backing up and measuring up your opponent, creating space, setting up right hand follow up's and lining up 'killer' shots and rounding off defencively after your attack and lastly with Stinging Authority...

absolutely lovely, and for those of you who have heard me say of Britain's Ernie Roderick " an absolutely beautiful boxer" (among others), this is what Mosley looked like.

1st Class beautifull, applause, applause and I dare say 2 or 3 more of that still left in him.

Thank you Shane Mosley on behalf of Boxing purists.

walshb
01-25-2009, 12:03 PM
"I think Shane can do well here. I like Marg; but he is very beatable and very methodical and predictable. I think his style suits Mosley. I know a peak Mosley does it; but can an aging Mosley do it? I am worried that the older Mosley will only be able to fight in round spurts and will not be able to maintain enough offense to win. But clever tactics, his chin and his heavier hitting (Cotto) may see Mosley win this.

I am going to call a Mosley points win here!"

Finally, I call one right. Just got the fasgion of victory wrong. I really didn't expect Shane to do it inside the distance. I haven't seen the fight yet; but did
Marg's chin let him down or was it a case of accumulation shots doing the trick?

kikibalt
01-25-2009, 01:22 PM
I don't understand how Margarito's people thought they could get away with illegally wraping Margarito's hands, or how they supposedly did in Las Vegas, because for all fight the opposing fighter has a right to have somebody looking on as his opponent is having his hands wrap, if its true that Margarito's hands were loaded for the Cotto fight, then Cotto's people were not doing their job and he should get rid of them, you can bet I always had somebody looking on for us.

Husker
01-25-2009, 01:31 PM
While I think ordinary is a little harsh to describe Margie, I'm gonna defer to you Mr. B- I don't think it's even a tiny stretch to say that you have a better eye for this then I do.

Off topic for a 2nd but I thought Cotto did the right thing by taking knees when he was starting to get wasted by Tony. Yet I'm vehemently against standing eights. What are your thoughts on this Mr.B?

Sorry for changing gears but I'm over 40, if I didn't remember to ask now, I'd forget forever. :)

Crold1
01-25-2009, 01:42 PM
Between who was successfull when the fight was on the ropes between Mosley Margarito and Margarito Cotto, was WHO was fighting OFF of the Ropes.

Cotto was unsuccessful fighting off of the ropes agianst Antonio. Mosley had Antonio against the ropes and he was successful. Shane never was fighting AM with his OWN back agianst the ropes.

Shane tied up Margarito successfully when backed up to the ropes.

This IMO was key.

Shane fought very smart.

Oh and btw, for those saying this proves Mayweather would have beaten AM, while I'm not saying Floyd definitely would or would not have, not much can be taken from Last nights fight. The difference in types of fights both are willing and able to fight, is night and day.

ANYONE thinking Floyd fights AM anywhere remotely close to the way Shane did, hasn't been paying attention.

Shane's power got Margarito's attention and respect. I'm not entirely certain the punches Floyd would land on Antonio, has anywhere near the same impact on what Margarito would be determined to do. Anyone see Floyd backing AM to the ropes?

Then agian, Marg, may be ruined by this fight mentally and confidence wise. And Floyd now may be more than willing to take that paltry $8 mill. to get it on with Antonio.

Hawk

Agree...Mosley also stepped into his shots great last night. Cotto was perpetually winging from the outside while moving backwards. Cotto was at least a little intimidated by the fifth.

kikibalt
01-25-2009, 02:09 PM
While I think ordinary is a little harsh to describe Margie, I'm gonna defer to you Mr. B- I don't think it's even a tiny stretch to say that you have a better eye for this then I do.

Off topic for a 2nd but I thought Cotto did the right thing by taking knees when he was starting to get wasted by Tony. Yet I'm vehemently against standing eights. What are your thoughts on this Mr.B?

Sorry for changing gears but I'm over 40, if I didn't remember to ask now, I'd forget forever. :)

Husker,

I do think that Margarito's skills are ordinary/limited, what I don't think is limited is his heart and his willingness to fight, on that I give him an A+.

Cottto taking a knee? why not?, he was getting the crap beat of him, I wouldn't call him a coward for doing that.

Btw, I too am against the standing 8 count, if a fighter is so badly hurt that he need a standing 8, then the fight needs to be stopped.

mrbig1
01-25-2009, 02:09 PM
While I think ordinary is a little harsh to describe Margie, I'm gonna defer to you Mr. B- I don't think it's even a tiny stretch to say that you have a better eye for this then I do.

Off topic for a 2nd but I thought Cotto did the right thing by taking knees when he was starting to get wasted by Tony. Yet I'm vehemently against standing eights. What are your thoughts on this Mr.B?

Sorry for changing gears but I'm over 40, if I didn't remember to ask now, I'd forget forever. :)
Try being 53. I don't know what happen yesterday. He took a knee because he was done. It's not like SRL taking a knee vs Hearns. Leonard was not taking a bad beating at the time. I'm for a standing 8 count. It gives the ref time to asess wether a fight should be stopped because fighter A has taken a beating and is still fighting back. One look at Cottos face would have been enough for me. I rather a fight be stopped too soon than too late.

kikibalt
01-25-2009, 02:13 PM
Try being 53. I don't know what happen yesterday. He took a knee because he was done. It's not like SRL taking a knee vs Hearns. Leonard was not taking a bad beating at the time. I'm for a standing 8 count. It gives the ref time to asess wether a fight should be stopped because fighter A has taken a beating and is still fighting back. One look at Cottos face would have been enough for me. I rather a fight be stopped to soon than to late.

Try being 73...Mrbig, you and I are still young....LOL!

walshb
01-25-2009, 03:55 PM
Well, just watched the fight. Man, Marg is a punch bag. Very hittable and too predictable; like I always thought.

The key to the bout IMO was Shane's power, his jab, flicking flicking flicking and offsetting Marg. His body work was very damaging. Mosley was hurting
Marg throughout, something Cotto could not do.

Mosley must be the most sporting boxer of recent years. He touched gloves at every opportunity and even when he knocked Marg down at the end of the 8th, he went over to nearly console him. Gentleman, but ruthless boxer!

Hey, does Pac want part of this. This is todays welterweights. NOTHING SPECIAL; BUT STILL LEAGUES AHEAD OF WHAT Oscar and Pac can offer

evander
01-25-2009, 04:52 PM
Well...I just got word from a reliable source that Marg had overtrained for the fight. It was noticed that Marg was looking flat in sparring weeks before the fight. Ain't that what trainers and managers are for, to watch over these guys so things like that don't happen.

kikibalt
01-25-2009, 05:46 PM
Is Mosley-Mayweather the next mega-fight?

Although the latter continues to say he's retired, a mega-millions matchup against the suddenly rejuvenated 'Sugar' Shane may be too much for Floyd Jr. to resist.

By Lance Pugmire

Certainly, the bows to the record-setting Staples Center crowd was a treat, but it was minutes later in a quieter celebration that Shane Mosley received what qualified as the best ovation of all.

His beaming promoter, Richard Schaefer, hugged Mosley and whispered into his ear: "I will start having conversations with Team Mayweather tomorrow morning," Schaefer said.

Thirty-seven-year-old boxers don't always have that luxury, but Pomona's Mosley (46-5, 39 knockouts) earned it Saturday night, dominating Tijuana's Antonio Margarito. He won every round on one judge's score card and pummeled the younger Margarito to win by ninth-round TKO and gain his fifth wold title by wresting the World Boxing Assn. welterweight title from the champion who kept the belt for only this one defense.

"The only right word for this was spectacular," Schaefer said. "Shane told me, 'Believe in us,' and there was no question he believed in himself. He turned back the clock."

Producing an unexpectedly spirited, vibrant effort, Mosley possessed a hand-speed mismatch against Margarito and landed a steady, damaging barrage of overhand rights and left hooks while moving easily away from the champion's attempts to impose his formidable power.

He credited new trainer Nazim Richardson's guidance and training regimen in Big Bear and also had plenty of incentive to take frustrations out on Margarito. Mosley's marriage is ending, he's involved in two BALCO-related lawsuits over his past steroid use and he walked into the ring amid media speculation that he was nearly finished.

"I have a chip on my shoulder to be competitive," Mosley said.

It didn't look like it was more than eight years after Mosley's last fight at Staples, that upset over Oscar De La Hoya best remembered by the Pomona boxer's continued late-round ability to beat his then-rival Golden Boy to the punch. It looked more like eight weeks later.

"I was just getting caught," Margarito said. "Over and over."

Now, with no rematch clause obligation to Margarito, Mosley says, "whatever person steps in front of me is a mega-fight, and that's what I've always wanted."

He'd like to avenge a November 2007 loss to Miguel Cotto. Yet Schaefer asked, "How does [unbeaten] Floyd Mayweather Jr. sound?" Said Mosley: "Great."

Contacted by The Times on Sunday morning, Mayweather Jr.'s manager, Leonard Ellerbe, essentially opened the negotiations this way: "Floyd is retired."

It's almost stupefying that Mosley-Mayweather hasn't happened yet. Will it now? Mosley's speed, power and boxing versus Mayweather's speed, defense and savvy? Mayweather has said recently through his manager that he's willing to end his "retirement" dating to December 2007. Schaefer said, "Let me talk to them first."

The welterweight division is so loaded, counting Manny Pacquiao, Ricky Hatton, Paul Williams, Mayweather and Cotto as members, Mosley appears assured of landing another big one like Saturday's when a record 20,000-plus packed Staples.

"You saw this . . . everyone came out," Mosley said. "These are the kinds of fights I like to fight."

Margarito, meanwhile, remains scheduled for a June 13 rematch with Cotto, perhaps at Staples Center, his promoter Bob Arum said.

"Margarito had an off night," Arum said. "In boxing, you win, you lose. It's like a pitcher throwing four shutouts in a row. He might lose the next one, but he's still good. It might be a completely different outcome if they fought again. The way this division is, all these guys will fight each other again and again."

Margarito has more to worry about than how to rebound from the Mosley loss. Before the bout, his original hand wraps were removed and Mosley's attorney said "flecks of a substance" that appeared to be like plaster of Paris were found on pads wrapped atop his fist. His hands were re-wrapped, and the contents of the original wraps and the "flecks" were secured in a box.

The California State Athletic Commission will begin "investigating" the contents of Margarito's hand wraps Monday in Sacramento, commission official William Douglas said Sunday.

mrbig1
01-25-2009, 06:19 PM
Knowing what we know now makes me think he fought with loaded gloves in the Cotto fight. One look at Cotto face proofs that point. I always believe that Dempsey gloves were loaded as well. I've never seen a fighter take such a beating after only 3 rounds of boxing. I think Doc did it because of the $10,000 bet he had on a first round KO. Thank god Mosleys people caught that.

walshb
01-25-2009, 07:38 PM
Over trained or under trained or anything else; it doesn't change the fact that
he lacks 'skill' and lacks speed and lacks defense and lacks movement and lacks versatility and lacks a plan B. Marg is a tough tough man with limited skills IMO. He is well beatable and I always thought this; even V Cotto.
The difference was that Shane was able to hurt Marg. He hits harder and crisper than Cotto.The body shots wore Marg down and the flush head shots really dazed him EVENTUALLY!

It was a great display by Shane; but he wasn't faced with any real danger here. It's still a faded and past it Shane and it was clear.

mrbig1
01-25-2009, 08:56 PM
Rewatching the fight I notice that A.M. was standing straight up. That's a no no against a quick handed fighter like Mosley. That's OK if he has the talent and skill of a Carlos Monzon. Let's face it A.M. is lightyears from Monzon. He should have fought in a crouch and attcked Mosley body.

Ron Lipton
01-25-2009, 10:45 PM
The hand speed and manuverability of Shane took the night. He was in shape and made mincemeat of the shorter man v the taller man thing I have never subscribed to. Antonio Margarito conducted himself with tremendous bravery and post fight class, so much so I almost had tears in my eyes for this salt of the earth decent guy and his effort. His answers afterwards were those of a true champion, gentleman and tough man of character.

If only some of the great fighters from South of the border would incorporate
some usable boxing muscle training into their reportoir, the power of the punches and speed of delviery would benefit 10 fold.

You cannot buy or teach the courage of an Antonio Margarito to anyone.
Yes, when I saw him before I saw the flaws and the one dimensional aspect of his strengths but they were in abundence in the Cotto fight.

In this fight his muscle energy waned, not his aerobic conditioning thorough roadwork. If only I had a kid like this I could turn him into an effective superman.

All that being said it is more than disturbing to me to learn of the attempted tape job and it raises the spectre of questionable unfair advantages prior to this bout.

Let me tell you something from a guy who knows better than most.

I have seen Inspectors for the TOP commissions allow the most unfair taping jobs imaginable just so the show would go on. THIS CANNOT CONTINUE.
They either don't get it or they don't want to make waves for a big event.

Tito Trinidad had so much tape on his hands it looked liked a mailed fist from medieval times. It is tantamount to a Luis Resto V Billy Collins glove fiasco but with the taping.

You must have inspectors to truly enforce the allowable amount of tape.
The rule can be changed as far as over the knuckles but to allow endless amounts of adhesive tape and or a hardening substance between the wraps is flirting with disaster and a criminal offense.

The cornermen or man who attempted this is truly in the Panama Lewis school of seconds.

Punchdrunk
01-25-2009, 11:58 PM
WOW! Great win for Shane! I was almost gonna pass on viewing because I did not want to witness a bad beatdown of Sugar. Being a Pomona boy, I attended the same High School as Shane, and my son attended at the same time as Shane, so I have followed his career for ages. Boy, am I happy I didn't pass! As the fight evolved, I could not believe what I was witnessing. I haven't been that excited watching a bout in years! He sure looked good! I feel like Emanuel Steward, Shocked! I'm lovin it! Congrats Shane!
Gary

Crold1
01-26-2009, 01:47 AM
Antonio Margarito-Shane Mosley: Post-Fight Report Card

By Cliff Rold

It was breathtaking.

Not to overstate, but no one saw this coming. Sure, there might have been the random fan here or there who picked Shane Mosley by knockout, but amongst them how many were serious versus smart ass? There seemed to be two picks heading into Saturday’s Staples Center showdown and they were Margarito big or Mosley by a little.

Margarito never got more than a little ways into the fight. Even when it looked like he might through the seventh round in the first half of the eighth, it turned out Mosley was just measuring his end. In the pre-fight report card, it noted it would less than shocking if Mosley swept the first six rounds of the fight.

He did.

And then some.

Let’s go to report card: http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=18080

Husker
01-26-2009, 01:50 AM
Well, now 24 hours later, the surprise has worn off for me. It's still a little strange how energetic and strong Shane looked given how old and tired he looked just a few months ago with the mummified Mayorga. Good for him.

Like everyone else, I sure hope there is no truth to this plastered wrap business. Resto-Collins was something I buried deep in my subconscious because of how offensive it was. I don't ever want to bear witness to something like that again.

Frank: thanks for the feedback. That's exactly how I feel and it's nice to have an "insider" back me up.

Mr.Big: my issue with the 8-count is this. The ref is right there anyway, if you feel the need to step in because it's that bad, just stop it. Giving a guy who's getting punched in the head 8 seconds to recover is just risking more sustained punishment. Imo.

mrbig1
01-26-2009, 02:56 AM
Well, now 24 hours later, the surprise has worn off for me. It's still a little strange how energetic and strong Shane looked given how old and tired he looked just a few months ago with the mummified Mayorga. Good for him.

Like everyone else, I sure hope there is no truth to this plastered wrap business. Resto-Collins was something I buried deep in my subconscious because of how offensive it was. I don't ever want to bear witness to something like that again.

Frank: thanks for the feedback. That's exactly how I feel and it's nice to have an "insider" back me up.

Mr.Big: my issue with the 8-count is this. The ref is right there anyway, if you feel the need to step in because it's that bad, just stop it. Giving a guy who's getting punched in the head 8 seconds to recover is just risking more sustained punishment. Imo.
I see you point of view. In my day it was needed. Today the refs for the most part do a good job in stopping fights. In fights like Weaver vs Dokes or Tyson vs Ruddock 1 these fights were stop too soon. Maybe a standing 8 count would have allowed the ref to see that they were not in trouble. I wouldn't lose any sleep if they were no 8 count. I too hope there was no monkey business in the hand wraps. If so I thnk a lifetime ban would be in order.

diggity
01-26-2009, 10:55 AM
I don't doubt that Margarito may not have been in his best condition. I thought to myself early that he appeared to be a little flat but it's hard not to attribute that due to Shane handing him his ass so thoroughly.

I haven't seen Shane step into so many shots like that for a long time. He just flat out, out-toughed the tough guy & beat him everywhere in the ring. I can't say enough about the performance especially with the fact Shane was the one with all the distractions. I had no idea he was going through a separation. That would explain some of the emotion he fought with.
You can tell just from the photos.
http://www.fightnewsextra.com/cc/2009Fights/01-mosleyVSmargarito.htm

I'm glad to see such a good & talented guy pull out a performance like this at this stage of his career. He proved he deserved it. It has been great to watch Mosely get the highlight power shots & KOs that he was so used to getting early on his career. I really forgot what an exciting fighter he used to be (and still is apparently).

It's pretty clear to me now that Cotto not only fought Margarito with too much respect, he just does not have the chin like Mosely to weather a fight like that. But then again, if he fought with loaded hands, who knows. The boxing world really needs to know what was in Margarito's tape asap. I can't understand why more has not been said. This is a disgusting & appalling situation which needs to be dealth with immediately.

DscribeDC
01-26-2009, 11:29 AM
It's the same old story. A guy has a great win and the pundits blow it all out of proportion, so the next defeat is a huge letdown.

hawk5ins
01-26-2009, 11:44 AM
Margarito was IMO the Best Welterweight in the division and was coming off a very impressive win over Cotto, in which he deserved full credit for.

Now the win for AM didn't have me overreacting or losing perspective about Antonio. But he did get full recognition for the win and IMO proved himself to be THE best welterweight on the planet and a rightful entrant in the LB for LB group.

I thought he'd destroy Mosley, becuase quite simply, Mosley looked old and worn to me agianst Mayorga.

This win was a wonderful surprise and I won't take credit away from Shane for proving me completely wrong on my prefight prediction here.

Accolades in abundance from this vantage point.

Hawk

darkknight718
01-26-2009, 11:50 AM
A very nice win for Mosley -- a complete domination of a younger, supposedly tougher guy. There was a point in the second or third round when Mosley reached in, landed a jab to the body, and then immediately landed one upstairs as well, all before Margarito could react. AM just couldn't handle that kind of speed, and Mosley used it wisely to break him down. The accomplishment is all the more impressive given what's been going on for Mosley personally -- new trainer, divorce, lawsuits, etc.

It's a shame, really, that there's a voice in my head that wonders: "is he doping again?"

TDKO
01-26-2009, 12:28 PM
I agree Mosley did not look sharp vs Mayorga, I also thought B-Hop looked old
vs Calzaghe, and based my pick of B-Hop over Pavlik on that performance, Holyfileld vs Czyz Holy looked unimpressive before Tyson 1,
I'm sure there are many more examples of fighters looking unimpressive in their
last fight prior to one of their best performances, (sounds like a new thread)
I guess what have you done for me lately doesn't always apply to fighters,
more like what have you had all along inside.....

JLP 6
01-26-2009, 05:53 PM
Margarito is going to retire Mosley in the 7th and from boxing. He is too hungry and has the firepower to back it up. Mosley will be back in there with Forest/Wright + Pryor.

Should be a can't miss for fight of the year nominie.

:)

doomeddisciple
01-26-2009, 07:26 PM
It's a shame, really, that there's a voice in my head that wonders: "is he doping again?"

You're not alone. I couldn't help thinking "Great win....(hope the drug test results are clean)

Which I just hate because I've always been a big fan of Shane's.

prototypeofamodernmadman
01-26-2009, 08:37 PM
Awesome fight, for such a one sided affair it was sure a lot of fun, just seeing Mosley, the huge underdog, out toughing, and out everythinging the supposedly invincible Margarito was awe inspiring,

I like to gamble from time to time, and only a fool would have put money on a Mosley victory by a stoppage, and a lesser fool would have put money down on a Mosley victory period, damn that hindsight really hurts, but I felt that it was a possibility that Mosley would be able to make the slow, awkward punching Mexican look even more oafish,

about Margarito's condition, it looks like weighing in at or under the welter limit is starting to catch up to him at 30, he looked REALLY skinny and drawn in there, what do you guys feel about a move up to 154 for Marg? he's obviously too big a man for Welter,

lastly, the glove controversy, I believe that he has been fighting with loaded gloves his entire career, because, it obviously seriously affected his confidence knowing that he wasn't fighting with bricks in his gloves, and like a previous poster noted, look at Cotto's face in his fight with MArg, awful,

so, if Margarito was cheating and was going to go into his fight with Shane with loaded gloves, then he really got what he deserved, a savage beatdown in front of a huge crowd of his supporters, kind of like Tito Trinidad getting stopped in front of his countrymen in the Garden after attempting to cheat,

great win for Shane, you know we all know that Mayweather wouldn't make him look anywhere near as good as Marg did if that fight were to come off, anyway, that fight really left me with a great feeling and a smile on my face.

Crold1
01-26-2009, 08:38 PM
2009 Gets a Sugar Shock: BoxingScene Pound for Pound Top Ten

By Cliff Rold

Turn back the clock? Nonsense.

What Shane Mosley did, at age 37, was much more than that. He ripped the clock off the wall and stomped on it in much the same fashion he took to curb stomping Antonio Margarito over nine rounds on January 24th. It was a revelatory performance that allows for reevaluation of his entire career and it certainly causes a new look at the state of the game’s best fighters. How new a look?

Let’s consult the Boxing Scene Pound for Pound ratings...

5) Shane Mosley (46-5, 39 KO)

Age: 37

Current Title: Alphabelt at Welterweight/147 lbs.

Career Titles: World Welterweight (2000-02); World Junior Middleweight (2003-04); Additional Alphabelt at Lightweight

Last Five Opponents: Antonio Margarito, Ricardo Mayorga, Miguel Cotto, Luis Collazo, Fernando Vargas (twice)

Next Opponent: TBA

The Take: Mosley can’t quite claim to be the undisputed king of the class following his humbling of Antonio Margarito, but there can be no doubt he reigns now as “The Man” again almost seven years after losing the spot to Vernon Forrest. Sure, he lost narrowly to Miguel Cotto in 2007 but there were arguments for both men. Mosley never even let Margarito make a case. Like another great Sugar at the same calendar age, Ray Robinson, Mosley showed the ability to handle a younger pressure fighter and summon youth from an aging body for victory. Margarito may not have been Carmen Basilio, but he had never been made to look the way Mosley left him. Add to that a powerful run of recent competition and Mosley assumes Margarito’s spot in these ratings and improves it by one. Previous #5 Vasquez drops partly because no one is sure when he’ll be fighting again as he nears one year out of the ring. Boxing now stares at what could be a dream four-way scenario if Floyd Mayweather chooses to return. Manny Pacquiao and Ricky Hatton are busy this spring; Mosley has an open dance card. Mosley-Mayweather has been must-see for over a decade. Amazingly, Mosley has shown the world it still is.

Read the Other Nine at: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/view.php?pg=pound

HE Grant
01-26-2009, 09:43 PM
I just rewatched the fight and it's funny but Margarito looked nervous pre-fight and I wonder if it was due to the fact that his padded mits had been discovered ?

gregbeyer
01-26-2009, 10:23 PM
worst seat in the house at this fight was right behind bernard hopkins and i think it was mark wahlberg who kept getting his view blocked by bhops needless and useless 4th row cheer leading and jumping up and down.

lot of thoughts on the fight too.... it made paul williams and his victory over tony pale a bit. it makes me think that the people who thought pacman should stay away from tony were wrong.... after this i think he would have stopped tony too and lastly it makes me wonder why people are not talking shane-pacman rather than shane - pbf. that way you get two performers that honestly ply their craft in the ring rather than a couple of oscar - floyd type skittish prima donnas.

oh... and i thought shane looked brilliant,focused and ready. i liked that angry look he came to the ring with.

greg

hawk5ins
01-27-2009, 08:41 AM
The reason I am not talking Shane and Pac, is that I don't think Freddie Roach would go for it.

Now, I have no idea if Shane can keep the revival going or not. But to put Manny in there with someone who would rival his speed and fight in an aggressive manner with the renewed power than Shane is displaying, is just something I see Roach not wanting any part of.

Manny Floyd makes sense, given the lack of punching power and the style Floyd fights with.

Shane, for all his speed and boxing ability, fights so much differently than Floyd and I would imagine, he'd take it right to Pac.

The bout would be at 147 and I simply do not see Manny having much success IF Shane still has with him, what he had Sat night.

It's just all wrong for him. And agian and more importantly, I can't see Roach going for it either.

Hawk

kikibalt
01-27-2009, 10:34 AM
* Item: Boxer Shane Mosley's trainer, Nazim Richardson, finds a substance the Mosley camp identifies as plaster of Paris under the wraps on the taped hands of opponent Antonio Margarito before the WBA welterweight title fight at Staples Center.

("We saw something on one hand and we asked to have that cleaned off," Richardson said. "The other hand was already taped. We asked to see that one. They resisted. The commissioner stepped in, made them take the tape off. The same stuff was under that tape.")

mrbig1
01-27-2009, 03:53 PM
* Item: Boxer Shane Mosley's trainer, Nazim Richardson, finds a substance the Mosley camp identifies as plaster of Paris under the wraps on the taped hands of opponent Antonio Margarito before the WBA welterweight title fight at Staples Center.

("We saw something on one hand and we asked to have that cleaned off," Richardson said. "The other hand was already taped. We asked to see that one. They resisted. The commissioner stepped in, made them take the tape off. The same stuff was under that tape.")
I'm both sad and pissed at the same time. If this is true this could mean the end of his career.

diggity
01-27-2009, 04:04 PM
If that is really true, fuck Margarito. The last thing boxing needs is a whole fiasco like this this.

diggity
01-27-2009, 04:10 PM
If that is really true, fuck Margarito. The last thing boxing needs is a whole fiasco like this this.

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
01-27-2009, 04:55 PM
lot of thoughts on the fight too.... it made paul williams and his victory over tony pale a bit.

i hear you greg but Margrito probably had his gloves filled iwth cement when he fought P-Will, and P-Will still outclassed him. Thank god Sugar Shane took care of busness, and his team exposed this hypejob as a cheater.

Margarito should be banned from all of boxing, period,

WKS

diggity
01-27-2009, 05:56 PM
I'm not taking anything away from Mosley but if this accusation has any merit, that could have been a big reason why Margarito's head may not have totally been into the fight that night. Knowing your career was about to end due to someone finding out you loaded your gloves is a pretty decent distraction.

TDKO
01-27-2009, 06:09 PM
Or knowing your going to a knife fight without your gun..............
Might have explained the look on T's face going into the fight

diggity
01-27-2009, 06:20 PM
Exactly

kikibalt
01-27-2009, 07:22 PM
Antonio Margarito had Eye Surgery

By Ryan Burton : According to Antonio Margarito’s manager Sergio Diaz, Margarito had eye surgery a few weeks before his show down against Shane Mosley. When asked why it couldn’t wait, Diaz said, “he had a problem with his eye and he had to have the surgery to fight. His retina could have become detached

doomeddisciple
01-27-2009, 07:32 PM
Antonio Margarito had Eye Surgery

By Ryan Burton : According to Antonio Margarito’s manager Sergio Diaz, Margarito had eye surgery a few weeks before his show down against Shane Mosley. When asked why it couldn’t wait, Diaz said, “he had a problem with his eye and he had to have the surgery to fight. His retina could have become detached

http://www.fightnewsextra.com/cc/2009Fights/01-mosleyVSmargarito/images/IMG_19.jpg

I wonder how either retina is still attached after all these right hands

Sharkey
01-27-2009, 07:59 PM
What's next?

We have:

No can do on the illegal plaster wraps.

Over-trained.

Awful during training camp.

Last minute before bout "why in hell not!" eye surgery!? (Larry Holmes was smart... he fought WITH a detached retina.)

----

It keeps escalating. Which worries me.

diggity
01-27-2009, 09:13 PM
I wonder how either retina is still attached after all these right hands
:D

doomeddisciple
01-27-2009, 09:38 PM
I think this case of the hand wraps is interesting.

As much as Trinidad's re-wrap "exposed" him, I can't recall any sanction or follow up beyond Richardson making him rewrap his hands for the Hopkins fight and revisionists pointing to that as the reason his offence was off compared to the Joppy fight. Which I think had more to do with Hopkins style than Trinidad's considerable offence.

I recall Vargas saying things along the lines of "THAT's why he hit so hard" etc, but really in the 8 years since the fight (gosh that's gone fast) I can't really recall anything coming coming of it.

In the case of Margarito - Yeah - Cotto looked bad, but Williams and Clottey both made the distance without any real detrimental busted up looking faces and whilst Trinidad was a one punch KO artist, Tony has never really been a one punch kinda guy.

The other thing that the hand wraps don't change is his chin and punishment sponge style.

I think if there's any excuse for Margaritto since I've been watching him fight since he turned Six heads Lewis into 6 Chins Lewis, I think it's sometimes he really does seem to over train for fights - Not just the ones he looses - As the very close Clottey fight demonstrated.

I think given his style they may take him too deep in the training/sparring area and when I saw him before the fight I thought he looked ill and him weighing 145 surprised me for a man of his size also.

The bottom line is Sugar was the main reason for the loss - He took one of the most feared welters in recent times to pieces.

Wraps aside, the only negative from all this that I've seen is all the new Floyd fans that flock to message boards like seagulls to a seaside fish and chip shop are now pointing to this fight as evidence that Floyd would destroy Margarito and that he was right to never have fought him because he's not even a B level fighter.

gregbeyer
01-28-2009, 01:26 AM
so..... when is there going to be word on the investigation into this glove situation ??

i always liked margarito as a person but if this allegation is true then his purse should be taken and he should be sent off to live the life of luis resto.

hawk, i like to think freddie roach is more sportsman than what you are describing. the public and the prices they pay deserves THAT level of courage from the top fighters in this sport. also i think a shane- pac rivalry would be competitive enough to merit a rematch or even a trilogy and the dough in that is hard to turn down no matter the risk.

greg

doomeddisciple
01-28-2009, 07:12 AM
so..... when is there going to be word on the investigation into this glove situation ??

i always liked margarito as a person but if this allegation is true then his purse should be taken and he should be sent off to live the life of luis resto.



Greg - Not to be a smart arse or anything mate - But what are you feelings on Felix Trinidad? Is he in the Resto bracket as well?

hawk5ins
01-28-2009, 09:24 AM
I don't think it's a sportsmanship thing with Roach. I simply don't think he'd view it as a good matchup for Manny or a wise move.

Pior to Shane's bout with AM, Roach clearly stated that he had no interest in facing Welters like AM, who he considered simply too big.

Based on Mosley's whitewash here, I can't imagine there is anything he'd see in facing Mosley, that he'd consider..."appetizing" either.

Choosing to Face Oscar, was based on what Roach felt Oscar no longer brought to the table. Based on Sat's performance, I can't imagine Freddie thinking that Shane is lacking anything right now.

Hawk

diggity
01-28-2009, 10:31 AM
Pac has no business fighting anyone bigger than Hatton unless he is older than DLH. He has nothing to prove to anyone more than that & I hope his team feels the same. Who's next for christ's sake, Vitaly Klitschko?

kikibalt
01-28-2009, 01:12 PM
Antonio Margarito had Eye Surgery

By Ryan Burton : According to Antonio Margarito’s manager Sergio Diaz, Margarito had eye surgery a few weeks sbefore his show down against Shane Mosley. When asked why it couldn’t wait, Diaz said, “he had a problem with his eye and he had to have the surgery to fight. His retina could have become detached if he fought without the surgery.”

Diaz stressed again that he didn’t want to take anything from Mosley. When asked about the growing controversy that Margarito was caught with an illegal hardening substance on his hand wraps before the fight and was forced to put on clean wraps, Diaz said, “It got blown out of proportion. They checked Tony’s hands. He had one hand wrapped and he was wrapping the other. They said his other hand was wrapped too high. Tony didn’t want that to be an issue so he had me cut the wrap off his other hand and he wrapped them both to their satisfaction on the spot.” When informed that some rumors had Margarito getting caught with plaster or another foreign substance in his wraps, Diaz flatly denied it. “No. No way. They were just wrapped too high for their liking.”

Also during Margarito’s training two weeks before, I was at the gym when the ”Tijuana TornaDo” hurt his back which a chiropractor was called in for.

As much as I like Antonio Margarito, I am not trying to give you excuses as to why he lost but to prove a point. Maybe that’s the reason he didn’t fight like he did against Miguel Cotto. The whole hand wrap issue, assuming he did use some type of plaster, don’t you think it will make your glove a lot heavier? This so called plaster or liquid gel is not going to increase your speed or increase the number of punches you throw, instead it will mean that Margarito would have thrown a lot less punches because of the weight of the gloves. It’s a plaster, not steroids. Other than that, Mosley looked great and he deserves the win.

hawk5ins
01-28-2009, 03:27 PM
Has there been any direct Quotes from Mosley's corner that states SPECIFICALLY why he asked for the wraps to be re-done.

Not "an Unidentified source close to the Mosley camp". Someone Specific stating SPECIFIC reasons why a re-wrap was requested.

This is the first I've heard that the Wraps were too high.

Has Richardson been quoted with something other than the Wraps were done incorrectly in a "deliberate manner".

I'd rather not speculate and/or damn or Exscuse anyone until we know all the facts and/or have someone stating EXACTLY what was found.

Hawk

hawk5ins
01-28-2009, 04:57 PM
From the New York Post

BY GEORGE! | GEORGE WILLIS
« Berto Retains WBC Welter Belt | Blog Home

January 26, 2009
Naazim Calls Doctored Wraps 'Deliberate'
The California State Athletic commission is investigating two hard blocks of gauze that were found in Antonio Margarito's gloves before Saturday's WBA welterweight championship at the Staples Center.

By GEORGE WILLIS

The trainer for Shane Mosley on Monday said two blocks of a plaster-like substance discovered in Antonio Margarito's gloves before their welterweight championship fight Saturday night at the Staples Center was a "deliberate" act that deserves a thorough investigation.

"It was deliberate, but on whose part? I don't know," said Naazim Richardson, who worked Mosley's corner and was the one who discovered two blocks of hardened gauze wrapped around the knuckles of Margarito's fists. "For all I know the corner could have been wrapping it that way for all of his fights, and Margarito could have been just as surprised as anybody that it was wrong."

The California State Athletic Commission confirmed on Monday it has sent "two samples" to its offices in Sacramento to be examined. "We are investigating, but I'm not authorized to say any more," said Dean Lohuis, chief inspector of the CSAC, who worked the fight won by Mosley on a ninth-round technical knockout.

Here's what happened. The controversy began when Richardson was in Margarito's dressing room to witness the wrapping of his hands as allowed by CSAC rules. One hand already had been wrapped and approved by the CSAC before Richardson's arrival.

In the process of wrapping the other hand, Richardson questioned the amount of tape going directly on Margarito's skin, and asked for a rewrapping. During the rewrapping, it got to a point where a cushion was placed across Margarito's knuckles. But when Richardson asked if he could "feel" the cushion that's when the Margarito camp began to protest.

Margarito's co-manager Francisco Espinoza was the most defiant telling Richardson, "I expected this from you," to which Richardson said: "You should expect me to do my job."

Over protests from the Margarito camp, Richardson was allowed to feel the cushion. "It was brick hard," said Richardson, who told the Lohuis to feel it himself. Once Lohuis felt the cushion he ordered that it be "opened up," Richardson said.

"When he opened it up, a little square block of old wet gauze packed real tight came out," Richardson said. "It was like it had plaster on it. I think it had an old dried up blood stain on it."

Richardson asked Margarito's previously wrapped hand be inspected as well, and another hard block of gauze was found in that wrapping. According to witnesses, a doctor for the Mosley camp inspected the two blocks of hardened gauze and said, "This is what we use in the hospital to make casts."

Both samples were given to Mosley's lawyer Judd Burstein, who said they felt like "plaster of Paris." He then gave them to Lohuis with the assurance they would be secured it such a way they wouldn't be tampered with. "It looked to me like the kind of thing that if the fight went on when (Margarito's) hands got sweaty and it would harden so it would feel like a cast," Burstein said.

Richardson said the blocks of hardened gauze had been packed and treated in such as way that it could make Margarito's punches feel like bricks especially in later rounds. "As you fight the natural cushion in the gloves wear down," Richardson said, "so by the later rounds you're basically getting hit with that plaster in there. That kind of stuff is ridiculous."

Margarito and his handlers face possible suspensions and fines if they are found to have deliberately broken rules. Margarito's co-manager Sergio Diaz was not in his office on Monday and he didn't return a message left by the Post. A spokesman for Top Rank Inc., Margarito's promoter, said the issue is between the trainer, Javier Capetillo, and the CSAC. "We'll see what happens," the spokesman said.

Margarito's hands were wrapped a third time and approved for the fight, which Mosley dominated en route to the surprising victory. Margarito was coming off a career-defining win over Miguel Cotto last July were Margarito's thunderous punches battered Cotto into an 11th round TKO. Don't expect the Margarito camp to confess how the fighter's hands were wrapped for that bout.

"I can only imagine what Cotto is thinking now," Burstein said. "I've never seen somebody not working out sweating as badly as the guy who was wrapping Margarito's hands when this was going on. It was like they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar."

Richardson has served as a long-time trainer to Bernard Hopkins and raised a similar issue before Hopkins' fight with Tito Trinidad 2001 at the Garden. Richardson objected when Felix Trinidad Sr. was wrapping Tito's hands with layers of gauze, then layers of tape, then more gauze and tape, etc. Layering is against the rules of the New York State Athletic Commission.

Credit Richardson for reading in advance the CSAC's rules on taping. He even brought up the subject during the rules meeting before the fight. "I've been through this before," Richardson said. "I don't want to tarnish nobody's image. Margarito might not have known what was going on because he wasn't really objecting to being rewrapped. But somebody did it."

Richardson isn't sure how the fight would have been affected had the blocks of hardened gauze not been discovered. "I don't think anybody would have beaten Shane Mosley that night," he said. "But with that plaster in there, it might have made it a little rougher."

Buzz up!Posted by George Willis on January 26, 2009 7:44 PM

sr71ko
01-28-2009, 05:46 PM
First of all I would like to congratulate Mosely on a surprising and unlikely victory. It couldn't have happen to a better guy and I am happy for him. I am glad that he finally got rid of that poison.....Jinn. Once again, WKS was right on the money in picking Mosely to beat Margarito. Finally, I would caution Cotto in jumping to get a rematch with Margarito. Arguello, the press, and the boxing establishment demanded a rematch after something was in the water in Pryor-Arguello I......then in a rematch Arguello got beat down much worse. Margarito destroyed the hard-hitting Cintron twice. If Cotto is to get kayoed then get kayoed by the champ for perhaps more money and against someone that he got a victory over(even though I had felt that Mosely had won 6-5-1 or 7-5 in rounds). Don't let pride get his career destroyed. Cotto's loss was not a fluke just as Margarito's loss to Mosely was not a fluke. Styles in boxing has always made fights. Cotto has had stamina, chin, and overall durability problems, it just finally got exposed by Margarito. Mosely had Cotto badly hurt at the start of the 10th round of their fight, then starting dancing the last couple of rounds. Don't fall for the trap....fight Sugar Shane Mosely again.

diggity
01-28-2009, 09:52 PM
Margarito suspended

http://www.fightnews.com/?p=2558#more-2558

kikibalt
01-29-2009, 10:15 AM
Antonio Margarito and his trainer are temporarily suspended

By Lance Pugmire
January 29, 2009

Boxer Antonio Margarito was temporarily suspended along with his trainer, Javier Capetillo, on Wednesday after the California State Athletic Commission announced it found a "foreign substance" in the boxer's hand wraps before his Saturday night loss to Shane Mosley at Staples Center.

Margarito and Capetillo have been ordered to appear at a hearing on the matter Feb. 10 in Van Nuys.

In the hour before his first title defense as World Boxing Assn. welterweight champion, Margarito (37-6) was stopped from putting on his gloves when Mosley's trainer Nazim Richardson told officials he believed the taping was excessively thick. When the tape was unwrapped, Richardson pointed out two pads inside one of the hand wraps that appeared wet and laced with "flecks" of a substance that appeared to be like "Plaster of Paris," Mosley's attorney Judd Burstein said Saturday night.

Mosley's promoter, Richard Schaefer, saw a cellphone photo of the stained wraps and said the substance appeared "gray," like "concrete."

The contents of the hand wraps were sealed by a state athletic commission official, and were inspected this week in Sacramento. The foreign substance was suspicious enough to merit the suspensions, state spokesman Luis Farias said, but that an identification of the material "is all pending."

That inspection will include an analysis of the substance found in Margarito's hand wraps by the California Department of Justice, said Tim Noonan, state athletic commissioner.

"The temporary suspension will remain in effect until CSAC has fully investigated the circumstances surrounding events at the Staples Center . . . on Jan. 24," the statement read. "An investigation as to whether either licensee violated CSAC rules is ongoing."

Bob Arum, Margarito's promoter, says he has retained an attorney for the boxer. Arum said Margarito was "fine" after learning of the suspension, "because he's completely innocent.

"We're absolutely confident he's going to be exonerated," Arum told The Times. "He's not a cheater, he wouldn't know anything about cheating."

Asked if he maintained that same position about trainer Capetillo, Arum said, "That, I don't know."

State codes allow Margarito's boxing and Capetillo's training licenses to be suspended when "such an action is necessary to protect the public welfare," Noonan's statement said, explaining rules dictate "the amount and type of gauze and tape allowed under a fighter's glove." A lengthy suspension of Margarito would be obeyed in all other states, in accordance with the Professional Boxing Safety Act, which was amended to account for unsportsmanlike conduct suspensions after Mike Tyson bit off a chunk of Evander Holyfield's ear in a 1997 bout.

Margarito's manager, Sergio Diaz, told The Times in a text message, "I am assuming [the suspension] is a CSAC standard procedure."

The controversy has reached Puerto Rico, home country of Miguel Cotto, who was knocked out by Margarito in July for his first loss. Cotto and Margarito have a rematch tentatively scheduled for June 13, according to Arum.

Cotto's attorney, Gabriel Penagaricano, said his fighter and his camp are "all going to be paying attention" to the Feb. 10 hearing "for various reasons."

Arum said "nobody should be jumping to any conclusions" that Margarito's hand wraps were doctored against Cotto because that fight was in Las Vegas, where boxing authorities restrict wrapping to a specific type of gauze and supervise the wrapping intently.

"It couldn't have happened in Nevada," Arum said.

Times staff writer Kevin Baxter contributed to this report.

lance.pugmire@latimes.com

jlupi
01-29-2009, 11:49 AM
fighthype has an interview w Richardson. It contains much of the same info as whe article posted by Hawk

gregbeyer
01-30-2009, 09:24 PM
hawk,

i understand the reasoning of your post. however, if your numero uno.... you fight everybody. by theory anyway. we could talk rjj here but i consider pac above that.

i would love to see pac- shane.

greg

Kurant
02-01-2009, 02:01 AM
I'm glad boxing is looking into this. It seems no one at the time took this very seriously.

With that said, I'm sure this isn't the first time he's done this. Overrated is right, and if it's indeed found to be a malicious act, Margarito's whole career is in question. And the rest of his career, should also be in question.

I personally think it's disgraceful. Your talking about putting an item in the gloves to intentionally increase the impact of punches. What if someone was killed? Or seriously injured? Boxing has enough bad marks.

mrbig1
02-01-2009, 03:52 PM
I think a lifetime ban in all states and around the world is in order. On the other hand Mike Tyson didn't get a lifetime ban.

doomeddisciple
02-01-2009, 08:56 PM
I'm glad boxing is looking into this. It seems no one at the time took this very seriously.

With that said, I'm sure this isn't the first time he's done this. Overrated is right, and if it's indeed found to be a malicious act, Margarito's whole career is in question. And the rest of his career, should also be in question.

I personally think it's disgraceful. Your talking about putting an item in the gloves to intentionally increase the impact of punches. What if someone was killed? Or seriously injured? Boxing has enough bad marks.

I agree - But given that Trinidad Hopkins was 8 years ago now and the Resto/Collins tragedy 20 years ago - Shouldn't there a more sophisticated and formal arrangement for this sort of thing?

I think it would be a little bit unfair for Margarito to be on the receiving end of this sort of scrutiny considering Trinidad basically just seems to have gotten away with it. Maybe Margaritto should just retire for a couple of years and then he can come back when everyone has forgotten about the wraps.

I was watching Fireman Flynn V Langford II footage on youtube last night and we haven't made it that far in 100 years - Flynn's first move when he got to the ring was to walk to Langfords corner and check his wraps.

gregbeyer
02-05-2009, 09:01 PM
doom,

sorry to take so long responding.

truth is i am not familiar with such a case involving tito. please fill me in there. must have missed something here.

greg

kikibalt
03-27-2009, 03:55 AM
Hands of plaster

The hand wrappings confiscated from former world welterweight champion Antonio Margarito minutes before his title defense against Shane Mosley in January contained calcium and sulfur, two primary elements in plaster of Paris, according to a California Department of Justice laboratory report obtained by The Times on Thursday.

Hardened gauze pads inserted inside the wrappings around Margarito's knuckle area were seized Jan. 24 after Mosley's trainer Nazim Richardson objected to their use.

Margarito lost his title in a ninth-round technical knockout by Mosley, and the California State Athletic Commission subsequently revoked the licenses of Margarito, and his trainer Javier Capetillo, for one year.

"The commission's decision appears to be supported by that report," said Karen Chappelle, the state deputy attorney general for licensing. "The only things that are allowed in hand wraps are gauze and tape and those items aren't gauze and tape."

Bob Arum, Margarito's promoter, had no immediate response to the findings, saying, "I'd have to see [the report]."

lance.pugmire@latimes.com