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Dogman_Tony
02-02-2009, 11:21 AM
What's the guy have to do? After demolishing Thiago Silva Saturday night, Lyoto Machida received a Knockout of the Night bonus but not, as expected, his title shot. Dana White announced afterward that if Rampage jackson beats Keith Jardine at UFC 96 in March. This means Evans will not defend his title until mid-summer at the earliest, and that Machida will have to wait until the end of the year for his shot.

robg
02-02-2009, 03:25 PM
This really pisses me off, but I'm not surprised. Lyoto Machida & Yushin Okami don't have a crowd pleasing style so the UFC will keep them both on the shelf for as long as they possibly can.

Dogman_Tony
02-02-2009, 05:34 PM
Machida sure please the crowd the other night. He asked the crowd if they thought he should get a title shot, and they roared in the affirmative. But Dana has his boys, and I guess Rampage is one of them. If Jardine wins, you know he's getting nowhere near the title. It pisses me off, too. Maybe Dana had an mental image of Evans-Machida and saw a five round avoi-dance.

robg
02-03-2009, 10:42 AM
Machida sure please the crowd the other night. He asked the crowd if they thought he should get a title shot, and they roared in the affirmative.


Yeah true that. I had a feeling someone was gonna point that out. I guess what I meant was Lyoto wouldn't be a PPV seller. I mean Anderson Silva is considered the top P4P fighter in the sport and he still has a hard time selling PPVs. I mean just look at how they threw in Liddell/Shogun on the Silva/Leites Undercard. That's no coincidence! If Rampage won against Jardine convincingly it would work out better financially for Rampage to get the next title shot. I hate it. Machida, Okami, and any other non PPV seller will always be put on the back burner if there's a charismatic American out there winning fights that'll do whatever the UFC tells him to.

Dogman_Tony
02-03-2009, 10:58 AM
I agree Machida wouldn't sell PPVs, but he's working on his English and his crowd-pleasing-ness. Do you think Evans sells PPVs? I don't know, but i bet he doesn't.

The Silva-Leites fight isn't a great match-up and plus it's a fight between TWO Brazillans. They need to get new blood in the MW division to create some excitement. Dan Henderson will get another shot if he beats Bisping, and though I like Hendo a lot, it's not real exciting. I think if he gets past Alves they may push George to rise in weight and fight Slva just to create excitement around the middleweights. Though they've done a great job marketing, the UFC doesn't seem able to market their Brazillian fighters...and that's on them. Wanderlei Silva was already big--the UFC didn't have to work at marketing him, but they haven't done that well with the others. They'd better learn. It's conceivable that within a year of so, the welter, middle, and light-heavy belts could be held by Brazillians, and if Gonzaga gets a shot, maybe heavyweight as well.

But yeah, the Machida thing sucks.

diggity
02-03-2009, 04:15 PM
I enjoy watching Machida fight.
That was an outwright dissection of Silva but I guess he needs more finishes like that to get the respect & shots he deserves.

Evans is just what White wants representing the sport.
I don't find Machida all that dull but if that's what the concensus is out there, I can't say I blame White.
To a degree, it was like when Chris Byrd was contending but Tua was the guy everyone wanted to reign.

Dogman_Tony
02-03-2009, 04:42 PM
Machida been a lot more dynamic lately, but people are slow to persuade. I love watching Machida. He's getting better and I expect he will finish more fights. If Evans loses to Rampage, and he could, Machida destroys Jackson. The only hope they have of keeping the title away from Machida is Evans.

diggity
02-03-2009, 10:58 PM
I don't see Machida having that much of a problem with Evans. Forrest had Evans tamed for the most part and he is not as quick, slick or smart as Machida. A bad moment versus Jackson or Evans could be fatal for anyone but his countering ability is one of the best out there. I like his chances a lot.

Dogman_Tony
02-04-2009, 09:36 AM
I do, too. But I like Evans' chances better than Jackson's, who seems made for Machida in that he comes straight at you. Evans is faster and more explosive than Jackson, and has Greg Jackson in his corner...

diggity
02-04-2009, 10:19 AM
Can't disagree.

Dogman_Tony
02-04-2009, 11:59 AM
That said, I'm not sure Evans gets by Jackson, Jackson's stand-up is pretty tight--he's not going to be giving Liddell-like openings--and he's a strong ground fighter. The Muay Thai clinch and BJJ have been his weakness in the past, and those aren't Evans' strengths.

diggity
02-04-2009, 01:05 PM
I'm not sure either.
Evans is a natural but there are things that experience will get you through where being a natural & all the talent in the world will not. Not to mention Jackson is just downright rough & tough. I'd love to see that fight. I'd have to say Jackson will be as motivated for that as he would a rematch with Forrest.

Dogman_Tony
02-04-2009, 01:18 PM
So if Jackson wins, do you think they'll give Machida his shot or rematch Forrest? If it's the latter and I were Machida, I'd hit the freaking roof.

I sorta favor Jackson over Evans because he's rough and tough, as one of his sparring partners described him, he's "prison strong," and because his aggression isn't stupid like Chuck's. I think if Evans stays outside he'll get picked apart, so he's going to have to make it grappling match...and Jackson's strength may be key there.

diggity
02-04-2009, 02:05 PM
Haha, who knows. Likely a rematch with Forrest honestly.

I agree with your take on Jackson over Evans. Evans still has some learning to do. Jackson's strikes have become much more accurate & collected in recent years. He is one of the calmest fighters in there & won't be stifled by Evans' explosiveness & speed. I feel Jackson flat out underestimated Griffin so I don't fault him much for that loss. Griffin is the type of guy who will run you right over if you look the wrong way for one second.

Dogman_Tony
02-04-2009, 04:33 PM
Yeah, there's some things you can't learn and I think a guy with Jackson's strength and tight stand-up will always be tough for Evans.

Hopefully by the time Griffin and Jackson rematch, Jackson will have learned to check leg-kicks. We should learn something about that with Jackson-Jardine, because Jardine will be using kicks big-time. Which raises the question, can Jardine beat Jackson? I doubt it, but he'll have a great game plan and he throws great leg-kicks.

Forest is an excellent fighter, but I think Liddell would have cold-cocked him--he just doesn't have big power and Liddell could probably get away with a mistake or two. Same with Wanderlei Silva.

diggity
02-04-2009, 05:17 PM
Forrest can still be baited into trading in which either Silva or Liddell would be favored but you can't discount the fact that Forrest was able to shake off the handfull of heavy shots Jackson landed. When Forrest stays methodical, he is very tough to beat. His toughness usually bails him out of his mistakes but Evans was too quick & explosive for him when the opening was there.

I don't give Jardine much of a chance because for starters he cannot take a shot like Forrest. Jardine would have been KOd in Forrest's fight IMO. He can kick Jackson all night but at some point he will get into trouble with strikes. Jackson is not as predictable, slow or as weathered as Liddell & Jardine's defense is average. Jackson takes a hell of a shot too.

Dogman_Tony
02-04-2009, 06:21 PM
I basically agree, tho I think Jardine's chin is okay and I think I give him a shot against Jackson, because of another guy named Jackson. He's been KOed by Alexander and Silva, lately, who both are big hitters. No shame in that.

"Jardine would have been KOed in Forrest's fight..."

You mean Forrest's fight with Jackson? Because Jardine KOed Forrest.

diggity
02-04-2009, 06:46 PM
I know he KOd Forrest because I was crushed watching it.
I was saying that the shots that Jackson hit Forrest with would have KOd Jardine in my opinion.

Dogman_Tony
02-04-2009, 07:10 PM
I thought thats what you meant, but wasn't sure. Anyway, I'll be pulling for the Dean of Mean to uspet Jackson, because that way Machida gets the shot. But Rampage will likely go through jardine.

Off The River
02-05-2009, 04:37 AM
The thing about Evans, is he just keeps on winning when he isn't supposed to. I really like his head movement and from what I saw,(not enough) he can grapple as well. He does have a decent wrestling pedigree doesn't he?

Even though Griffin was winning, all it took is one key mistake and he was all over him. He has a damn good punch and is elusive which to me gives him a good chance against either guy. He always surprises me when he fights. I'd like to see more snap behind his jab.

Dogman_Tony
02-05-2009, 11:15 AM
Evans has excellent head movement and yes, he was a very good college wrestler, and I think he has a real shot against both guys. I would probably bet on Machida and i give Jackson a slight edge, but both match-ups are very competitive.

diggity
02-05-2009, 11:18 AM
Very true. He is very quick, athletic & has great reflexes. Hard not to like. Just need some more seasoning & fine tuning. Natural talents only get you so far & have a shelf life.