PDA

View Full Version : Williams-Wright Result & Discussion



diggity
02-06-2009, 04:25 PM
from espn.com

The Paul Williams-Winky Wright middleweight fight on April 11 (HBO) has a home. Golden Boy's Richard Schaefer, who is working with Wright, told ESPN.com the bout will "definitely" take place at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas. On the undercard, former UFC heavyweight champion Andrei Arlovski, stopped in the first round by Fedor Emelianenko in a significant MMA bout Jan. 24, will make his boxing pro debut on the undercard, Arlovski manager Bill Keane told ESPN.com. Arlovski is trained by Freddie Roach.

gregbeyer
02-06-2009, 06:22 PM
been wondering when winky would re-appear. tough fight after a long layoff.

greg

diggity
02-06-2009, 10:09 PM
Exactly what I was thinking but he's a tough customer. Hopefully he doesn't have too much rust.

I'm real interested in the Arlovski experiment.

Husker
02-06-2009, 10:18 PM
Me personally, I think pretty highly of Winky and as for Williams...not so much. But Ronald's been off for a VERY long time. Pretty bad idea, imo, for a 1st fight back, my dismissal notwithstanding, the Punisher isn't a run-of-the-mill guy, he presents some unique problems.




I'm real interested in the Arlovski experiment.

Me too!

JLP 6
02-10-2009, 05:53 PM
I want Williams-Mosley. I hope that Wright does do something to ruin it. Because quite honestly he could.

prodigious1
04-01-2009, 12:23 PM
Winky Wright was the kind of fighter manager's feared most. His southpaw jab, craft and tendency to make otherwise special fighters look ordinary was enough to convince many big time players look the other way.

A decade after making a name for himself in the US, Wright finds himself in with another of the sport's very best. This time it's 6'2 fellow lefty Paul Williams, a banger from Georgia, who was thought of as the best welterweight in the world until he left the division in search of meaningful fights.

Both of these men know what it is to be "too good", and it was the familiar reluctance of others that drove the two camps toward an unlikely agreement.

At first glance it would be perfectly understandable to conclude that the younger Williams will just be too fresh for a 37 year old who hasn't fought in about a year and a half, and while I agree that Paul should be heavily favored, I'm not sure we're in for the domination many fans expect. In the 13 years he has competed on the top level, not one opponent has shined against Wright, and many others didn't even bother taking the chance.

Of course, age and inactivity create special circumstances. We've seen time play tricks with what used to be trusty legs and a sturdy chin. Sometimes the stuff that a fighter has counted on in the past just isn't there anymore, and that's the danger for an aging athlete.

However, this is a guy who has seen it all in boxing. He fought extensively on the French circuit during the early part of his pro career. In 1997 he retained his belt in South Africa against unbeaten Harry Simon, only to have it taken away in the locker room minutes later because of a "scoring error". Fernando Vargas saw his KO streak come to an end when he was enjoying his prime years. Wright was able to hush the crowd that came to see him get flattened by Felix Trinidad, and just being in the trenches with Bernard Hopkins probably means the older man has forgotten more about boxing than his young opponent knows.

For as good as the man they call "The Punisher" is, fighting someone with this kind of skill and experience is new to him. Sure, Verno Phillips was a tough nut, and a fighter I've got loads of respect for, but he's certainly never been in the same class as Wright and wasn't capable of giving Williams anything new to think about. And even though Antonio Margarito had more fights, the problems he presented were almost strictly physical.

He's gone up against one other tricky southpaw, named Carlos Quintana, and the results were wildly mixed. A sluggish effort that saw him eating way too many clean punches, was avenged in sudden fashion with a KO in 1. While blasting away a guy that had bested him 4 months earlier is obviously impressive, it doesn't wipe away the defensive lapses that have shown up in virtually all of his fights.

Wright has only one stoppage in his last 15 fights, so there is little worry of getting clipped on the sweet spot. Not that Paul's chin appears to be a concern, as it seems to be right up there with confidence as his best assets. If he needs to worry about any punch in particular, it's that bothersome right jab.

Stylistically, it's quite interesting. Neither fighter is into giving too much ground without getting something in return, which leaves you to wonder who will command the space and the pace of the combat. If they end up standing in front of each other, chipping away behind a high guard, the veteran will be getting what he wants out of the action. That said, I don't think Williams will be all that uncomfortable with what's going on, so it's up to Wright to stay with him.

As professional as he has been, it's a fighter's hubris that keeps me from picking another seasoned underdog. There have been moments like the 12th round against Jermain Taylor, and the free shot he gave Shane Mosley, that force you to wonder about his concentration. There was also a less than desperate showing in final round of a tight one with Vargas. How deep is he willing to dig at this point?

Winky is a tough guy. He's not going out easy to anyone. In fact, if I was confident that the same guy who fought Taylor was going to show up, I'd roll with him to win a close one, but how do I know that he hasn't been splitting his free time between the gentleman's club and his favorite Krispy Kreme?

I'm one of those fans who happens to think Paul Williams has "it". He's not the most technically sound or careful pug in the world, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a guy with more heart. A talented kid with a scrapper's ticker is a dangerous proposition for anyone, even a proud spoiler. With the fight on the line, I have more faith in Williams to take it, and that's enough this time.

The young, hungry man knocks off the old-timer, who teaches him a thing or two along the way.

theboxingbulletin.com

mrbig1
04-01-2009, 01:35 PM
Call me crazy, But I'm going with Wright in this fight. I know he hasn't fought in a long time, but still Wright is just too good of a fighter. I don't see Williams keeping Wright on the end of his jab. If Wright gets inside it's over.

hagler04
04-01-2009, 03:40 PM
I think Williams has gotten over-rated by many recently . . he's no doubt a good fighter but scraping by Margarito doesn't look as great as it did at the time, and I haven't forgot the first Quintana fight where he looked AWFUL.

That being said, I wouldn't feel confident backing a 37 year old with a Krispy Kreme addicition who hasn't fought in a year and a half. The early rounds will be interesting though. If Wright manages to win it will really look bad for boxing's new breed following Hopkin's domination of Pavlik. All we'd need is Holyfield knocking out Klitschko and it'd be 1998 all over again.

TDKO
04-01-2009, 04:42 PM
Interesting fight.......

Williams looked very sharp against a faded Verno Phillips, and really avenged his loss to Quintana convincingly.
I believe he is getting better and gaining confidence, and will make this a tough fight for Winky.
Williams has size, reach, youth and power on his side, and threw some wicked body shots in his last fight, and I think that is key if he can get those long arms around Winky's armour- like defense and connect to the body, he can slow his advancement down and POSSIBLY hurt him.
Can Winky outwork Williams over 12 at 37?
I see a somewhat close UD win for "The Punisher"

mrbig1
04-01-2009, 05:19 PM
The way to cut down on a fighters work rate is to counter his left hand. Make Williams think twice about throwing it. That the way I see things happening. It's going to take alot of moment on Williams part and double up on the jab. Wright is too smart for that. He'll make Williams a one arm fighter. Wright by UD 12.

JLP 6
04-01-2009, 09:16 PM
Give me Williams. He is the guy that people want to see win. He is more exciting frankly. The judges will go with Williams throwing and landing more everytime.

Add that with the fact the Williams will come in with no respect Wrights power. I hope for a Williams stopage but I will settle for a points win.

diggity
04-01-2009, 09:23 PM
I have to see how the fighters are looking before I really make a choice on this one by my gut tells me that age & rust are going to catch up to Winky here who has looked less impressive each of his last few times out.

The Welterweight Epitome
04-01-2009, 10:47 PM
This will be an interesting, it really comes down to the workrate of Wright. I think his defence will be enough to get Williams inside the killzone and having to work and planting down on his punches to try and actually get any damage done and pierce that shell. Which should make Williams pretty easy to hit with that straight left and jab.

If Wink doesn't work enough, then he may not be able to get the job done due to lack of output, but I imagine he will get the cleaner shots in.

Give me Wink in this one assuming he turns up in decent shape.

mrbig1
04-03-2009, 01:01 PM
This will be an interesting, it really comes down to the workrate of Wright. I think his defence will be enough to get Williams inside the killzone and having to work and planting down on his punches to try and actually get any damage done and pierce that shell. Which should make Williams pretty easy to hit with that straight left and jab.

If Wink doesn't work enough, then he may not be able to get the job done due to lack of output, but I imagine he will get the cleaner shots in.

Give me Wink in this one assuming he turns up in decent shape. I agree 100%. Let me add that Williams is a good fighter. Wright is a outstanding fighter. I always go with the talent in a fight like this. That's why I'm picking Wright. About the work rate of Williams, Well Mosley had a high work rate as well and we all saw where that got him.

TDKO
04-03-2009, 01:23 PM
I agree 100%. Let me add that Williams is a good fighter. Wright is a outstanding fighter. I always go with the talent in a fight like this. That's why I'm picking Wright. About the work rate of Williams, Well Mosley had a high work rate as well and we all saw where that got him.

Mosley's only advantage was in speed, but he was the smaller fighter
against Wright, with none of William's advantages.
This is William's time, he has the tools to beat Winky, with his reach ,and if he applys the same pressure and body attack, he should be able to carve out a decision, as far as Wink's straight left, it hasn't put anybody down in a long time,
I don't think Williams is that worried, we shall see.............

diggity
04-03-2009, 01:58 PM
I agree with those you are picking the fighter who "was" Wright but I don't think we will see the same guy at his best with Williams & he will need to be that guy to win.

Even at his best, Wright still isn't the 3 things that have given Williams problems so far. Slick, super busy or powerful.

evander
04-03-2009, 02:14 PM
Write is not the same fighter that beat Mosely. Williams by dec.

PeteLeo
04-04-2009, 01:18 AM
Even at his best, Wright still isn't the 3 things that have given Williams problems so far. Slick, super busy or powerful.

You don't think Winky is a slickster? PeteLeo.

mrbig1
04-04-2009, 10:10 AM
I agree with those you are picking the fighter who "was" Wright but I don't think we will see the same guy at his best with Williams & he will need to be that guy to win.

Even at his best, Wright still isn't the 3 things that have given Williams problems so far. Slick, super busy or powerful.
He had the 3 things going for him vs Quintana in the first fight. Here's what I'm trying to say. Williams was not nearly as busy vs Quintana. The reason being Quinatna is a good counter puncher. To make things worst Williams is so wide open when he throws a punch. Williams starts his uppercut from far away which is a no no in boxing. I'm saying that Wright is good enough to take avanage of these short comings. The Question is, is Wright in shape and does he want it. If the answer is no then it's going to be a long night.

diggity
04-04-2009, 12:37 PM
You don't think Winky is a slickster? PeteLeo.

Nope. Did he turn into one when I wasn't looking? Well, my definition of slickster is someone who is exceptionally quick with both feet & hands and relies on movement as the key points of their game. Winky is more like a flat footed, tactical tank, or at least he has been the last 5 years anyway. I'm not saying he's slow but he isn't a Mosley.

Not the Quintana is the poster boy slickster but he is a lot more mobile than Winky within his style.

PeteLeo
04-05-2009, 02:19 AM
He may not be a Mosley, but he boxed his ass off twice. PeteLeo.

JonnyBlaze
04-05-2009, 03:44 AM
Arlovski will not go anywhere in boxing in my opinion..If he does,now is the time to try..He won't get by either Klitchko though..

I agree Winky isn't a slickster..Slicksters rely on making someone miss completely while Winky relies on his gloves to block everything..Emanuel Augustus,James Toney,Floyd Mayweather could be considered slicksters..

mrbig1
04-05-2009, 04:07 AM
Why does Winky have to be a slickster? I see Williams coming after Wright. I see Winky's lead left and counter left as being a major problem for Williams.

diggity
04-05-2009, 10:37 AM
He may not be a Mosley, but he boxed his ass off twice. PeteLeo.

Yeah but that wasn't classic Mosely. He stood in front of him all night, barely moved a skin cell. Not exactly a recipe for success when fighting a bigger guy. These were the fights where Mosely finally realized he couldn't just plow though everyone with power.

diggity
04-05-2009, 10:43 AM
Arlovski will not go anywhere in boxing in my opinion..If he does,now is the time to try..He won't get by either Klitchko though..

I agree Winky isn't a slickster..Slicksters rely on making someone miss completely while Winky relies on his gloves to block everything..Emanuel Augustus,James Toney,Floyd Mayweather could be considered slicksters..

If anything, I think all of us should take note of one of the best (arguably best) strikers from UFC coming to box. It's especially interesting because he's taken on Roach as a trainer. This should make for some interesting MMA-Boxing debate afterwards.

That's more or less what I was thinking as far as a slickster. To each his own I guess. Winky is a very smart & tactical fighter but his arms and gloves do the bulk of the work for him. If I were Wright's age & coming off this layoff, this is not the fight I would want.

PeteLeo
04-05-2009, 03:16 PM
Yeah but that wasn't classic Mosely. He stood in front of him all night, barely moved a skin cell. Not exactly a recipe for success when fighting a bigger guy. These were the fights where Mosely finally realized he couldn't just plow though everyone with power.

Maybe Shane was off the juice for those two bouts.

To me, any guy who keeps a good "D," whether by blocking, slipping, running away or all of those put together, and counters his opponents effectively is a "slickster." Remember those early-years phenoms who (supposedly) could stand on an open handkerchief, never moving their feet past its borders, and make the wild swingers miss like helicopter props with their securing pins missing? Now, that is slick. PeteLeo.

diggity
04-05-2009, 04:32 PM
Maybe Shane was off the juice for those two bouts.

To me, any guy who keeps a good "D," whether by blocking, slipping, running away or all of those put together, and counters his opponents effectively is a "slickster." Remember those early-years phenoms who (supposedly) could stand on an open handkerchief, never moving their feet past its borders, and make the wild swingers miss like helicopter props with their securing pins missing? Now, that is slick. PeteLeo.

True. So let's just say he isn't a slickster in the athletic footwork or torso sense. He takes it all on his arms.

KOJOE90
04-10-2009, 07:33 AM
For me Williams outworks the older, inactive Wright to win on points.

mrbig1
04-10-2009, 10:19 AM
This is the fight I've been waiting for. We don't know if Wright is in shape. What I do know is that Williams chin is wide open. This is how Quintana hit him again and again. Because of this Williams punch output drop like a rock. I see williams coming after Wright the earn his respect. That would be a mistake. Quintana was a southpaw just like wright. Williams is going to get counter all night long. Wright will also throw the lead left, taking away Williams right hand. Wright in a easy 12UD.

diggity
04-10-2009, 02:57 PM
Just saw some pics from the presser. Williams towers over Winky. I know he is taller but I didn't realize by how much.

prototypeofamodernmadman
04-10-2009, 06:14 PM
any news on the weigh-in? I haven't seen anything around yet, really I'm just curious to see how many tons Arreola is going to weigh-in at, he's been training from home for this one and that can't be good for his conditioning,

yea, Williams looked like he just went on forever while standing next to Winky, it did look like Winky was hunched over a bit in those couple of photos, they looked to be having a great time, all smiles and laughs, Winky looked a little guant to me.

diggity
04-10-2009, 07:36 PM
I haven't seen anything either.
From what I've heard, Arreola will come in around 250.

kikibalt
04-10-2009, 08:11 PM
http://myboxingfans.com/2009/04/from-mandalay-bay/

From Mandalay Bay

diggity
04-10-2009, 08:25 PM
thanks kiki!

255 for Arreola. Gotta love it.

I will never understand how Williams gets down to 147 with that body and performs.

TDKO
04-10-2009, 08:26 PM
From that picture, instead of touching gloves Arreola and McCline could just do a belly bump.........

kikibalt
04-10-2009, 08:38 PM
From that picture, instead of touching gloves Arreola and McCline could just do a belly bump.........
How about a titie bump?

TDKO
04-10-2009, 09:13 PM
How about a titie bump?

I am NOT a Klitchko fan, but for the most part they come in the ring in top shape every time!
Doesn't anybody want to become a true champion anymore and put themselves in the best possible shape and the best possible position to win? (rhetorically speaking)

Friggen donuts are round
These guys are round.....

Gimme a break

mrbig1
04-11-2009, 12:33 PM
Both wright and Williams look in good shape. This is the fight I've been waiting for. This is by far the most skillful fighter Williams has ever faced. I'll come back later wife is taking me shopping with her. Lucky day.

kikibalt
04-11-2009, 12:54 PM
http://www.sgvtribune.com/rds_search/ci_12121829?IADID=Search-www.sgvtribune.com-www.sgvtribune.com
From the sgvtribune/Robert Morales

diggity
04-11-2009, 02:47 PM
Noted author, boxing historian, trainer & long time CBZ member, Adam Pollack, will do the honors tonight.

Please keep all discussion of this card to this thread. Redundant threads will be deleted.

Thanks,

GorDoom

Mike DeLisa
04-11-2009, 02:57 PM
This one looks like a tough one to score -- I will be posting a link for online scoring later today. I encourage members of the CBZ to give it a try!

apollack
04-11-2009, 04:20 PM
These are two great match-ups and I'm excited.

Don't forget the undercard fight - Arreola v. McCline, which should be fun. Two big monsters with power. The younger Arreola with superior punch volume, conditioning, and a gritty in your face style. The experienced McCline with the height, reach, size, and superior one punch power. Slight chin edge to McCline.

Wright-Williams should be very intriguing as well. Both southpaws, Williams has the height, reach, youth, and punch volume. Wright has the vastly superior experience and defense, and is the more natural middleweight. However, Williams has been more active, while Wright has been inactive for a couple years.

Mike DeLisa
04-11-2009, 09:39 PM
To score Williams vs. Wright fight follow this link -- you have to register (or log in as guest), but it is very easy and cool!

Launch Scorecard

I enccourage everyone to try this out.

apollack
04-11-2009, 10:11 PM
Arreola v. McCline

1 - JM mostly fighting as an outside boxer, firing a lot of quick jabs and trying to stay far away, but not really landing. CA very calm, plodding along in sturdy fashion, mostly focusing on body with the right, but occasionally firing in a jab and right to the head. Pace slow and tactical, but starts to heat up toward the end as both landed a couple decent rights.

apollack
04-11-2009, 10:15 PM
2 - CA pressuring slowly but surely, and JM mostly punching to keep him away, although he sometimes lashes out with some hard stuff. CA picking it up though and you can just tell JM getting worn by the pressure and pace. CA really putting them together to head and body and JM goes to ropes a fair amount and holding a bit more. CA hitting him well, though JM occasionally lashes out with solid stuff that makes you worry if you are with CA, who needs to pay attention to his defense. But JM mouth open and he's mostly defending. CA's fight if he makes sure he doesn't walk into a sucker punch.

apollack
04-11-2009, 10:20 PM
3 - More of same. CA outhustling him badly, working body and head, with Jameel taking and playing defense, ducking and grabbing. That said, there is still an aura of danger because probably the three or four hardest punches of the round were landed by JM, who nailed CA with a right and a couple solid hooks. CA landed some nice left uppercuts, but his one punch is not as hard. JM is losing rounds, but is fighting to pace himself, and occasionally lash out with something hard and trying to hurt CA.

apollack
04-11-2009, 10:23 PM
4 - CA still working consistently, working head and body, landing his left uppercut and right hand a couple times until JM goes down. JM takes count. He simply did not have the condition or heart to take it and keep up CA's pace.

mrbig1
04-11-2009, 10:27 PM
This was one fat pig fighting a even fatter pig.

apollack
04-11-2009, 10:33 PM
Yeah, JM's head and heart did not really seem into it, and he seemed to give up down on the canvas as much as he was hurt. I think mentally he saw that he was in with a relentless guy who was determined. He lashed out with a few, saw he couldn't keep him off, did not have the condition, so he picked up his paycheck and got out of there. The days of JM being a live fighter in there with top guys are over.

Yeah, CA is simply too big and needs to work on his head movement, but hey, he did what you would like to see in a contender - he came forward and threw punches, never avoiding a mix-up, and broke his man down to the head and body. I've never seen a boring CA fight.

apollack
04-11-2009, 10:59 PM
Paul Williams v. Winky Wright

1 - Very interesting and good round. PW using height and reach well, firing an amazing number of punches, keeping fast pace, but he mostly throws with his arms, very rarely getting his body behind them, and WR defense solid as usual. WR nowhere near as busy, but whenever he did throw, he landed solidly, crisply and cleanly, landing some lefts and rights. The best punches of the round were by WR, but the sheer volume of PW probably earned him the round. It will be interesting to see how it continues.

apollack
04-11-2009, 11:02 PM
2 - Another fun round. They are standing right there and working hard. Again though, PW just too busy for WW, and PW did land some solid uppercuts. WW just not busy enough, and PW quick enough, long enough and busy enough to maintain the edge.

apollack
04-11-2009, 11:06 PM
3 - PW is just so darn busy, and using his height and reach and just enough speed that WW playing too much defense. WW does land a few solid shots here and there, but he's fighting too slow of a pace to win rounds. His only hope or strategy must be to come on late and hope PW can't keep it up.

apollack
04-11-2009, 11:10 PM
4 - PW even outhustling him on the inside. He is so loose and lanky and active, working body and head, and just seems very relaxed. WW calm and using his D, and trying to lash out occasionally with solid shots, but he needs to go back into his shell and wait after each combo, whereas PW can just keep it up relentlessly. This is real boxing because PW doesn't run, but just moves a bit to maintain range and work.

apollack
04-11-2009, 11:14 PM
5 - WW very economical and efficient, but too much so for this guy. PW just works, moves his head, moves his feet a little, works again, moves head, works, although he is clinching a bit more this round. But WW not really picking it up. PW the one who picks it up after a slight rest. this guy can work on the outside or inside. WW seems befuddled, like he only has one gameplan and gear, and cannot alter it. Not the fight for a guy coming off a long layoff. It isn't that WW is that bad, but PW just that darn good.

apollack
04-11-2009, 11:18 PM
6 - Subtle shift in this round. PW slowed just a tad from his amazing pace, but he's still busier than WW. That said, WW picked it up just a bit, and worked the body more. A closer round. PW entitled to a slow down round.

apollack
04-11-2009, 11:23 PM
7 - Pace has slowed down, which is more to WW's liking, but PW still outboxing and outlanding him. PW is just on tonight, and it seems that no matter what, he's going to do what he needs to in order to win the rounds. WW face reddened and PW looks cool as a cucumber. Even though PW mostly throws arm punches, he's so relaxed and snappy and long with his arms, there is just enough pop at the end that you will feel them.

apollack
04-11-2009, 11:26 PM
8 - PW doing his thing and lands a few with more snap than usual. PW just totally loose and relaxed and confident. Intersperces his arm flurries with an occasional snapper. His defense is really on tonight too, with such loose head movement. Sure he catches the occasional decent shot, but overall for being right in WW's face, he's making him mostly miss. A superb exhibition.

apollack
04-11-2009, 11:30 PM
9 - Once again PW just firing and landing like crazy. I've never seen WW get hit this much. Rather than PW getting tired, it is WW doing the occasional holding. WW looks dejected. PW landing more cleanly in this round. WW still trying, but he looks like a guy who has been asked a question to which he has no answer.

apollack
04-11-2009, 11:34 PM
10 - PW starts the round really firing away, trying to test WW's heart, sensing that he's getting to him. WW blocks and takes and just keeps doing his thing, which isn't good enough. PW works and moves his head and works some more. WW landed a few solid body shots, but cannot overcome the output. WW bothered by one accidental head butt when PW leaned forward into his face.

apollack
04-11-2009, 11:38 PM
11 - Same old same old. Slower round, and it almost looks like there is a silent agreement in there where WW knows he's going to lose and PW knows he's going to win, and they are going through the motions, doing a similar repetition of what they have been doing. WW probably just wants it to be over. He's certainly not going for broke trying to change the course of this fight.

apollack
04-11-2009, 11:42 PM
12 - They really went at it in a good nonstop combo to begin the round. Looks like the slow up of last round was them saving it up for this one. Oh PW landed a nice uppercut. WW seems tired now as his head gives a bit when he gets hit. Despite the superior work rate of PW, it is WW who seems like he could not last for 15 rounds. The most WW has been hit in recent memory. Well toward the end WW lashed out again, but too little too late.

Should be a clear PW victory. You better be in great shape to beat this guy, or have a serious punch.

apollack
04-11-2009, 11:43 PM
119-109 (twice), 120-108 UD Paul Williams.

evander
04-11-2009, 11:44 PM
Williams was in the zone tonite. I didn't see this fight going any other way coming in.

mrbig1
04-11-2009, 11:47 PM
Well, I was wrong. Williams fought a great fight tonight.

Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
04-12-2009, 01:24 AM
P-Will is the Goods. Is it any wonder Margrito needed loaded gloves just to win two rounds against this monster?

A great fight for fans of the Sweet Sciecne,

WKS

The Welterweight Epitome
04-12-2009, 03:29 AM
Yeh, Wright looked slugish and disinterested I thought.

Williams kept the pace fast, and actually caught Wright with a few clean, unorthadox overhand lefts.

Think I had it 117-111, but Wright was definatley not sharp and even his defence looked sloppy at times (ala Mosley in the second fight).

I'm still not sold on Williams, his way too open and will be schooled by a great boxer (too bad the talent has dried up badly), but he did what he had to do and his punch output is IMPRESSIVE!

Kyoodle
04-12-2009, 10:22 AM
This was a great fight for the fans and the sport. Two solid technicians going at it, both showing skill,will and courage. Yes, Winky's age and inactivity conspired to make Williams look even better than he is, but even a sharp, younger WW would have trouble with this kid.

Angles, angles and more angles: that's what you get from PW. And aside from the reach/height advantage, you have a guy who "reads" his opponents extremely well. Watch the replay of this one (as well as the AM fight) and see how focused his eyes are on WW's eyes and shoulders when he's about a foot away from him, looking for the slightest of movements so he can throw counters. You don't teach that; that is something you either have or don't have.

With his ever-improving boxing skills, and this raw, visceral talent he has for the game, all Williams has to do is integrate better defense in his tool kit to become a dominant force at 160.

diggity
04-12-2009, 11:44 AM
When Williams is on, I don't see who beats him within reasonable weight, even PBF. He has his flaws but his offense is just overwhelming, he has the chin to back up his mistakes & the fact he is a southpaw makes the whole package even more puzzling to solve.

As much as he is a freak of nature & should get his credit, his style annoys me sometimes. He just leaves me wishing that would just step into more of his shots. I think his fights would be half as long if he did. Williams was easily catching Winky around the guard with his wide overhand left. This is not one of his favorite shots to throw but he should have stayed on it all night. It would have made Winky widen his guard and gave him more options than just pumping shot after shot into Winky's guard.

This was a brave but dumb idea for Winky as a comeback fight. Winky has a problem with overselling himself at times & this time it bit him hard. I bet he is kicking himself over the Taylor rematch.

As far as Arreola, who is paying Merchant to spew this love for him? I'm not used to him being the cheerleader. Arreola is not "mature" he is sloppily fat. When Arreola finally has to go rounds with someone who isnt a club fighter, he will wish his body wasn't so "mature & filled out." I can't believe anyone within an earshot with some knowledge lets this kind of stuff fly out of someones mouth without bursting into laughter. Chris, I hate to tell you but not all your fights are going to end in under 5 rounds & Tyson you are not.

He has been stunned by guys with sub par power & skill. I give him his credit for throwing more than one punch at a time but that's about where the credit stops. As sad as the top ten may be right now, I don't see him beating a lot of the guys in it.

TDKO
04-12-2009, 01:51 PM
Just caught the replay, the fight went pretty much as expected, I felt Williams should have gone to the body earlier to slow Winky's advances, but he defintately stepped it up, enough said.

I want to give some props to Arreola, he showed improved defense, didin't
get hit with as many silly shots, and his attack was more measured and thrown in combination, (granted he was fighting an old out of shape and intimidated, lumbering McCline), I like the downward trajectory of some of his right hands, in close those could find a Klitchko.....

but he is still fat

TKO Tom
04-12-2009, 02:23 PM
The Williams vs. Wright affair went about as I figured it would. It was as though Winky was walking straight into a wood chipper.

Williams will have to make his bones in the next 2 years. His style of throwing 100 punches per round will not stand up once he hits 30. The age and wear and tear will catch up to him and then he'll be a sitting duck unless he changes his style.

However, in the immediate future, he'll be tough to beat. No way any of the top guys fight him unless they are forced into it for some reason.

Arreola will get killed by either Klitschko. He reaches in and leaves himself open. His balance is not good and at 255 he's just too roly-poly. I think Povetkin, Dimitrenko, Haye and even Eddie Chambers will beat him.

I may be wrong, but I think Arreola has gone about as far as he's going to go. Anybody with a decent jab and some movement will beat him. If a 39 year-old McCline could nail him with left hooks - what does a world class heavyweight do?

rocky111
04-12-2009, 06:18 PM
Williams hasnt fought the big banger yet, especially at 160. Pavlick or Abraham would ko him I feel. Throwing alot of punches with no real pop isnt gonna stop guys who know what to do. He might beat Hopkins at this point because Hopkins is going to box him and that will be hard to do. Id like to see him sit down and his shots a bit more. Hes big enough to do so and not really give up much.

prototypeofamodernmadman
04-12-2009, 08:51 PM
Just watched the two fights, hmm, Arreola,

it's hard to rate his performance, Mcline has been never been kayoed as quickly, but it looked to me like he voluntarily went down after taking that last volley of punches from Cristobal and then just quit, Mcline was in poor shape, and throughout his career has been let down likely by mental problems, confidence issues that are hard enough in themselves to overcome let alone when you are getting ripped with heavy combos,

Arreola was impressive in his combination punching and his commitment to body punching, but it looks like only a matter of time, when he faces a heavyweight with some speed., heavy power, and skill, his chin is going to let him down, Mcline hurt him pretty badly with sloppy shots and Arreola was wide open to receive them,

a skilled heavyweight that can take Arreola past 5 or 6 rounds will expose him as well, Arreola was sucking wind pretty heavily in the post fight interview after going 3 and a half rounds, his fat will catch up to him in the mid to late rounds,

another interesting thing I noticed is that for a man that weighs 255+ Arreola doesn't really have the bone structure to support that much weight at all, next to Mcline you could see that Arreola is pretty slight of build despite the 75 pounds of paunch,

The Williams-Wright fight, man, Winky looked really sharp in that first round, landed some good shots, and then it just turned into a landslide in Williams favor, I think Winky would have had a hard time with Williams at any stage of his career, although the pre - I'm a knockout slugger Winky probably would have fared much better, I can't remember which fight it was that WInky decided to be more fan friendly, maybe the Sam Soliman fight, but that just ain't his game,

and Dan Birmingham, Wright's trainer, he just didn't have any advice for Winky at all, all he kept saying was, use your jab, move your head,

anyhow, I like Williams over Pavlik right now, he could use Hopkins blueprint and just give Pavlik to many angles to deal with,

Arthur Abraham I think would Kayo Williams, Abraham has the speed and athletic ability to land on Williams,

prodigious1
04-12-2009, 11:12 PM
Paul Williams has that "something". Great fighter's ring presence. The scary part is he seems to be improving with every outing. I don't see anyone from welter to middle that beats him.

prototypeofamodernmadman
04-12-2009, 11:47 PM
Yea prodigious, he's pretty special, what impresses me most is his ability to throw 100+ a round consistently throughout each round up until the last, the punch selection is also impressive and mixed up well, but as a poster pointed out above, Wright probably made Williams look a hell of a lot better than he is, Winky was a pretty stationary target that stood right in front of Williams all night,

I would like to see a fight between Williams and Mosley, but I hope for the sake of Paul's health he doesn't fight at Welterweight anymore, not only does he kill himself to make the weight with all the dehydration and starvation that goes along with it, but it's not fair to his Welterweight opponents either having to fight a guy that's naturally much much bigger,

diggity
04-12-2009, 11:58 PM
I agree he should stay away from Abraham. He would win some rounds but the sting from Abraham's shots does not go away. I can't see Williams trying to throw 100 shots through that incoming. It's not worth the risk with Pavlik either. He would give Pavlik fits but again, Pavlik wouldn't miss the mark all night. Williams would have to take some shots from 2 of the heaviest handed fighters in the division. I don't want to see it happen this early into his career. He should only take fights like this if the money is irresistable. Hopefully he isn't forced into it.

prototypeofamodernmadman
04-13-2009, 12:16 AM
What did you guys think about Arreola? I jsut watched the 3rd and 4th rounds again and was less impressed, Mcline did pretty much nothing except stand still and hold,

it's kind of sad that a guy that's trying to be the first Mexican heavyweight champ and represent his people looks the way he does, even in this weak division, I can't envision someone being at the top with a body like Arreola's,

Larry Merchant was going a little crazy in heaping all that praise, either it's the hope of an American heavyweight champ or HBO has invested heavily in him.

The Welterweight Epitome
04-13-2009, 01:12 AM
Yeh, Williams looks a natural middle to me (perhaps 154), but he is too big for Welter and shouldn't starve himself to get down there.

I worry about him taking a shot from a guy like Pavlik and there is no doubt, he will take a few big ones if the fight does pan out. Would be a cracker of a fight though, that's for sure.

TKO Tom
04-13-2009, 08:17 AM
I was ringside for Williams' blow-out of Carlos Quintana.

It sounds like I'm in the minority with this opinion, but Paul looks pretty damn good at 147 to me. He wants to go back there, expressed the desire to on Saturday night - and I think it's a good move for him.

Here's why: He hurts world-class guys at 147, and at 160 pounds I don't think he does. At welterweight his advantages in height and reach are simply tremendous. I think he beats every single person in the top 10 at welterweight - including Cotto and Mosley.

He strains to make 147, sure, but I don't think it's that big of a burden. He works so much harder than these guys do today that he can still make the weight and have something in the tank.

diggity
04-13-2009, 09:32 AM
Arreola stopped a shell of McCline. He does not beat a McCline of 8 or 9 years ago, maybe not even the one who lost to Peter IMO. This win is not saying much at all. Arreola had a very cooperative opponent. Arreola seems like a nice enough guy but I don't want to see someone with a disgusting physique like that rewarded like he's onto a secret. Time will put him in his place I'm sure.

I don't see any reason Paul shouldnt go back down to 147 either. It's not like anything terrible has happened to him as a result of the weight so far. He won't be down there forever so why not dominate there while he can?

diggity
04-13-2009, 09:35 AM
Kudos to Wright for not making any excuses & telling the public exactly what happened out there. What a stand up guy. I hope he does continue to fight because I think he can still beat some names out there.

Antonia Margarita
04-13-2009, 09:43 AM
jaimel is shot
its only a maater of time before areola is carried out like this
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09yQdrq8eq6B6/610x.jpg

gluelicker
04-13-2009, 10:36 AM
Is that a Star of David embossed on McCline's trunks? Or is that a Rastafarian thing (Star of Solomon)? Me curious... not that Jameel is getting back into the ring again.

Obviously Williams dominated his match, but nobody here has commented that around 80% of his punches landed on Winky's gloves.

diggity
04-13-2009, 11:28 AM
Who knows what that is. I'm guessing that is from the Valuev fight?

Not like it matters but I pointed out earlier that Williams threw many shots at Winky's guard but when you are fighting him, that's all he's going to give you. If you wait on Winky to give you an opening, you'll wind up waiting all night. He could have make his night a little easier by throwing the wide overhand left more but he didn't, but who am I to correct him anyway? He shut him down & out.

prodigious1
04-13-2009, 01:35 PM
If Pavlik fights Williams, bet the farm on the lanky lefty. No way Kelly can win that one. Not fast or accurate enough. Nor is he a one punch puncher. He's not going to find Paul easy to hit.

I now it seems like I'm not giving him the proper respect, but I just don't see any way for Pavlik to win. Terrible match for him.

diggity
04-13-2009, 01:43 PM
It may look like that on paper but Williams can be suckered into trading and often leaves himself out there when throwing shots past when he shouldn't be. That will always give anyone who is a decent puncher who is in good range a better than average chance. Pavlik doesn't have the skill Williams does but he is the hardest hitter he faced by far & he is pretty lanky himself. I don't see Williams having the power to really bother Pavlik & I question how many Pavlik shots he can take over the haul. It would be interesting but I bet Pavlik stays the hell away from a fight like that for a while & he should.

prototypeofamodernmadman
04-13-2009, 08:09 PM
It didn't look like 80% of Williams blows landed on Winky's gloves, Williams delivered a bad beating on Wright, landing hundreds of clean, head snapping punches, a lot of them were even right through Wright's guard,

look at Wright's face at the end of the bout, looked in worse shape than I've ever seen it before

diggity
04-13-2009, 08:24 PM
Much of the same effect on the face can be done when you are smashing someone's own guard into their face, which happens to Winky often in his fights. Not to say that a healthy portion didn't land but you can certainly mark someone's face up in the way I describe.

kikibalt
04-13-2009, 11:37 PM
http://i43.tinypic.com/2hq5usw.jpg
Chris Arriola's next opponent, C. C. R. Fernendez

JLP 6
04-14-2009, 02:59 PM
Williams has no defense. None. He keeps his hands too low, and his chin tucked down enough to where he is hunched over.

I did think he has a bad chin, not glass, and a clean shot from Pavik at this point would be a problem for any middleweight.

I say that shuting out Wink by throw round after round is impressive. I feel like Williams carried Wink. He took off rounds danced a little bit, tried new thinks. He was smiling in the corner and in the ring.

He would come into a fight with heavy puncher and hit them a ton. Pavliks defense is suspect as well and he has been down and almost out. Williams tag the brick wall Magarito with hundreds of vollies.

Pavlik will be in with a guys who is going to fire, fire, and fire. Waiting for the perfect shot, will get the defensive lacking Pavlik one option. Punch back.

With the distance he has to get through an 82 inch reach to fire his own rounds.

It would be a great fight. Conventional Wisdom: Pavlik. More thought: Even...Williams.

diggity
04-14-2009, 03:20 PM
Chris Arriola's next opponent, C. C. R. Fernendez

He looks real mature & filled out like Cris.

sr71ko
04-14-2009, 05:32 PM
Williams should conquer the jr. middleweights first and unifie all the belts, because no one will fight @147. I think that it is still premature to be rushing him to fight Pavlik or Abraham. Let that happen a 1-2 years from now. Conquer the jr. middleweights. Sergio Martinez, Kermit Cintron, and Vernon Forrest would be good opponents.

prototypeofamodernmadman
04-14-2009, 06:13 PM
Williams has no defense? From what I could see in there, well for one, his overwhelming height and reach over most opponents is a sort of natural defense for him for starters, but his head movement was pretty impressive in there too, it's an awkward kind of head movement swinging all over the place from an upright to a hunched posture, he was a hard target for Wright with that constant head movement

Mike DeLisa
04-14-2009, 06:24 PM
http://www.fightjudge.com/scorecard/468/scorecard.png (http://www.fightjudge.com)

diggity
04-14-2009, 09:42 PM
Williams has no defense? From what I could see in there, well for one, his overwhelming height and reach over most opponents is a sort of natural defense for him for starters, but his head movement was pretty impressive in there too, it's an awkward kind of head movement swinging all over the place from an upright to a hunched posture, he was a hard target for Wright with that constant head movement

This is the recipe for Williams' defense
1 part nature
1 part movement
1 part offense
1 part chin

I don't see how you can defend yourself any better when you fight the style he fights. If he did, his output would suffer. He certainly could stand to learn some proper defense for when his body is incapable of carrying out this style.

I have a hard time picturing him being as effective without the overwhelming output for some reason. I also have a hard time figuring out how his power stacks up to others. He is a real puzzle.

JLP 6
04-15-2009, 11:45 AM
He does not have to throw so many punches. He can set up his punches behind the jab. He has the same reach as Muhammad Ali.

He has fast hands, taller than most middlewieghts.

Why crouch down and get hit by clean right hands? That would be all Pavlik needs.

I say fight tall, set up your punches behind the jab, and for cripes sake, keeps your hands up!

What then would stop him from becoming a great?

prodigious1
04-15-2009, 01:21 PM
It's amazing that he doesn't have an authoritative jab, but I expect that to come with age and experience. He won't be able to throw 100+ a round forever.

Love his fighting spirit though.