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Thread: Greatest sporting Legend

  1. #61
    DscribeDC
    Guest

    most important?

    I see your point, but I would say the 1936 Berlin Olympics were more important than the Louis-Schmeling fight. Owens went over and whipped the Nazis premier athletes on their own turf.

  2. #62
    Juan C Ayllon
    Guest

    Maybe It's Just Me, But...

    This may seem silly, however, in my estimation, there's a world of difference in being able to say that the representative of my country can dominate and beat your guy up as opposed to he can merely run faster than yours can.

    This would be especially true back in those times, where Hitler and Germany were collectively flexing their muscles and terrorizing their neighbors.

    The former symbolically suggests that we can pummel you into submission in combat whereas the latter suggests that while we may be more athletic than you are, we may simply have to tuck tail and run if we want to survive an ecounter with you.

    Just my thoughts, anyway.

    Best,


    Juan C. Ayllon

  3. #63
    jyoungfan2
    Guest

    Re: Maybe It's Just Me, But...

    along juans line, remember the russian weight lifter vassily alexiev(sp?). Russia took great pride in boasting they had the strongest man in the world for years. welsh b would also say the prestige of heavyweight boxing title surpasses any other sports accomplishment.

  4. #64
    walsh b
    Guest

    Re: Maybe It's Just Me, But...

    Also now through to the final are Ayrton Senna in Motor racing and Lester Pigott in horse racing........

  5. #65
    walsh b
    Guest

    Re: He's Cynical...He's Cynical Not...

    Can you believe they voted Steve Redgrave as the greatest Olympian ever...talk about a bias vote...The British public had to have somebody for the final. Yes he was great, but let's be honest...was he better than Carl Lewis, or Mark Spitz or Michael Johnson...no way. He won 5 golds, Lewis won 9 gold and most of these were individual, not a team gold like Redgrave...anyway the list looks like this for the final...Pele, Ali, Senna, Nicklaus, Navratilova, Lester Pigott, Steve Redgrave...they are currently voting on the greatest Rugby player ever....

  6. #66
    Dhalgren
    Guest

    Re: He's Cynical...He's Cynical Not...

    Interesting thread. I actually hadn't heard of Karelin until today. His sporting achievements are phenomenal, but as has been pointed out in other posts, the title of "greatest sporting legend" requires more than just excellence in a given discipline. There has to be an element of enduring fame; something that raises the athlete from excellent to iconic. So, with that in mind:

    Pele
    Ali
    Carl Lewis
    Jesse Owens
    Babe Ruth
    Jim Thorpe
    Michael Jordan
    Diego Maradonna
    Wayne Gretszky
    Jack Nicklaus


    Just missing out: Comaneci, Bradman, Senna, Graf, Sampras, Schumacher, Ray Robinson, Cobb, Navratilova, Best, Zaharias etc.


    There are also some athletes who were remarkable all-rounders and have a list of achievements as long as your arm, but for one reason or another have been lost in the mists of time. For example, check out the Wikipedia profile of C.B. Fry:

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._B._Fry


    Trouble is, he'd probably have to be included as a cricketer, and there was no way he was more legendary in that field than someone like Don Bradman , W.G. Grace or Gary Sobers. Makes me wonder though: how many other "lost legends" of this kind are there out there?

  7. #67
    walsh b
    Guest

    Re: He's Cynical...He's Cynical Not...

    I almost forgot, I don't think Lance Armstrong is going to be on the list. There is no list of cyclists being represented as far as I know. I'd certainly put either him, Mercyx, Indurain, Hinault or Anquetil up there as the greats. He may go on this year to win his 7th consecutive tour.....My ten would now read
    1.Ali, 2.Carl Lewis, 3.Pele, 4.Spitz, 5.Jordan, 6.Armstrong, 7.Joe Louis, 8.Michael Johnson, 9.Sampras, 10. Ray Robinson

  8. #68
    walsh b
    Guest

    Re: He's Cynical...He's Cynical Not...

    Well, Ali won the final with 36% of the vote. Lance Armstrong polled in 2nd place with 20% and Pele was in third with 12.5%. I can't think of a more deserving winner........

  9. #69
    walsh b
    Guest

    Re: He's Cynical...He's Cynical Not...

    By the way, Armstrong was on the list as a wild card...he beat other wild carders such as Gretszky, Jordan, and Babe ruth to name a few....

  10. #70
    Dhalgren
    Guest

    Re: He's Cynical...He's Cynical Not...

    Where the hell was Phil "The Power" Taylor?

  11. #71
    walsh b
    Guest

    Re: He's Cynical...He's Cynical Not...

    Where was Phil Taylor, are you serious mate...a bloody pub game played by a hanful of countries????, if that's your idea of a sports legend, best of luck to you......

  12. #72
    Dhalgren
    Guest

    Re: He's Cynical...He's Cynical Not...

    I was joking.

  13. #73
    blv30
    Guest

    greatest

    Two words:
    Jim Brown

  14. #74
    TKO11
    Guest

    Re: greatest

    Personally I'll go with Gretzky and Nicklaus, and for the same reasons for both. The best in their respective games, head and shoulders above the competition, set new bars to reach for, periods of domination lasted an incredibly long time, and both were instrumental in increasing interest in their games by leaps and bounds. Further, both were incredible gentlemen and were perfect ambassadors for their sport.

  15. #75
    DscribeDC
    Guest

    .

    Watching Nicklaus go down the 18th fairway at St. Andrews, playing the last major championship hole of his career, was a genuine moment. Unforgettable.

  16. #76
    walsh b
    Guest

    Re: .

    But the greatest sports Legend???, hardly...an old man chasing a golf ball around. Has to be the easiest sport in the world to become so very very rich. They don't come close to the Ali's, Robinsons, Lance Armstrong's, Carl Lewis of the sporting world. Thos guys earned their dough the hard way......I see Golf as nothing more than a leisure activity or pastime...

  17. #77
    DscribeDC
    Guest

    .

    Ah, well...I guess someone on the CBZ has never played golf...

  18. #78
    walsh b
    Guest

    Re: .

    Buddy, I'm only 29 and I've played many rds of Golf. It's just that I find it terribly boring and after about 12 holes, I've had enough. It has always reminded me of a game that old folks play, or people who have retired. It's so different now though because of the vast amount of money involved. What exactly they're paying to see, I'll never understand, but it must be the most played and watched game on the planet. Kike, where's the actual excitement in it. When does anything happen that leaves you in awe. Are they even athletes that play it...hardly........

  19. #79
    DscribeDC
    Guest

    .

    Well, it certainly is a game of skill more than a game of strength or stamina. Although there certainly is a physical dimension to it. I mean, a round of golf is a pretty long walk, under sometimes adverse conditions, and guys who are truly out of shape wear out. But, yeah, you've got a point. They are not "athletes" in the same way that Carl Lewis is an "athlete." But if you're going to have race car drivers or jockeys in the mix...As for the amount of money they make, that shouldn't be a consideration. I personally don't understand why ANY athlete makes the kind of money they do. As for golfers, the answer is the same as for other sports...They make a lot because they generate a lot. Golf has good ratings, appeals to a wealthy demographic, sells lots of advertising and sponsorships to luxury goods like cars.

  20. #80
    walsh b
    Guest

    Re: He's Cynical...He's Cynical Not...

    Dscribe, as for Jockeys, surely a guy who races 2-3 times a day over the jumps at 40+ mph with the slightest protection (helmet) deserves to be called an athlete. They are possibly the bravest people in sport. They are head and shoulders above golfers in that regard. Last point on the Golfers, when they start carrying their own clubs and holding their own umbrellas, I might start to appreciate them more......

    Regards

  21. #81
    GorDoom
    Guest

    How about ....

    Jerry Rice? 42 years old & even at that age he's the 3rd reciever on the Bronco's squad. Numbers? He owns them all. Longevity? No one has played reciever longer than him. & if I'm not mistaken only George Blanda in the history of the NFL has played longer.

    I used to think the best NFL player was automatically Jim Brown. But jerry's numbers are incredible: He has more yards & TD's than Emmit Smith. Emmit had the ball 20-30 plays a game. If a reciever cathches 6 passes that's considered a great game.

    With way less chances at the ball Rice has surpassed them all.

    GorDoom

  22. #82
    walsh b
    Guest

    Re: How about ....

    Gor, without a doubt I think Jerry Rice's domination of the wide receiver position was the greatest in NFL history. He was superb. That 49er team of the 80's was in my opinion the greatest ever and it's what got me following the sport. Montana, Rice, Craig, Lott, Hayley, Taylor, Young etc etc. Team of the 20th century. Was there ever a better QB than Montana in the big big games...I don't think so.......

  23. #83
    TKO11
    Guest

    Walsh

    If golfers need to carry their own bags and such for your respect for their craft, we should also have the race car drivers gas up their own vehicles.

    I've never understood why some folks can't call golf a sport. Is it because there is almost no danger involved? Is it because nobody's ever fractured their skull in the process of hitting a chip-shot? Is it because if you hit a bad shot you don't get piled on by a dozen guys or forced to sit out the next 2 minutes of action?

    I've boxed, played hockey, baseball, football, lacrosse, soccer and tennis, all in organized leagues. In 1991 I was also a 4-handicap golfer. And I can tell you that other than boxing there is no more intense sport, under the crush of competitive pressure, that is more intense or demanding than golf. That's for 2 reasons: 1. If you don't deliver, it's you and you alone that is the cause and 2. the golf swing is so precise, there is such a tiny margin for error, that competition makes it an entirely different animal. The amount of time that clubface of a golf club is square to your target is such a tiny fraction of a second that any small variation in your swing will make an "almost-perfect" pass at it an utter horror.

    I've read many times Ted Williams's quote that to hit a baseball squarely is the hardest single thing in sport. Having played both baseball and golf at fairly high levels, I can say it is far easier to hit a baseball squarely than hit a golf ball squarely. I've made plenty of lousy swings at a baseball and still gotten a hit, even home runs - I've never made a lousy golf swing and still had a good shot.

    It's a different kind of sport, demanding a different kind of activity and delivery from your body, but a sport it most definitely is. Which is why I enjoy watching celebrity tourneys on TV - where else can you see world-class professional athletes like Jordan, Barkely, Johnny Bench and John Elway make complete fools of themselves? Because it's just too hard for them to master.

  24. #84
    DscribeDC
    Guest

    .

    A lot of sports fans still have the gladiator mentality; if an athlete won't bleed for me, he's not worth considering. Thankfully, there are people who can still appreciate contests of skill. Yeah, boxing is way more physically demanding, but a troglodyte can still knock somebody out by clubbing him on the top of the head with a wild haymaker. TKO is right. Golf calls for absolute precision of an order that no other sport does. And it's one of the few sports where man has to combat physical terrain uniquely and specifically designed to give him fits.

  25. #85
    walsh b
    Guest

    Re: .

    Ok fellas, It's a sport...I give in. I never doubted the skill aspect of it. It's just that I feel the cash these guys earn is ridiculous in comparison to the actual effort they put in. I mean Lance Armstrong isn't worth a fraction of what the seniors are worth on the golf circuit. Are you trying to tell me that watching a 60yr old man hit a ball around a field for 4 hrs is sport???..God help you...Some of these OAP's are earning 2-3 million dollars a year on the circuit. Maybe on the Tiger Woods aspect, it is close to a sport...but the Seniors is nothing but a bunch of old men making a fortune off a bunch of Morons who are willing to pay to actually watch the spectacle

  26. #86
    GorDoom
    Guest

    Golf

    Is a skill & it takes tremendous focus to be a great golfer ... BUT, I'm sorry it's not a sport - it's like playing billiards on a grander scale.

    Golf, pool, chess etc. are not sports - they're skills & you have to respect them as such especially the great ones but they are NOT athletes.

    Tiger Woods is very impressive but I can't equate what he does with football,boxing, baseball, B Ball, track & field etc.

    GorDoom

  27. #87
    DscribeDC
    Guest

    .

    We'll have to agree to disagree.

  28. #88
    TKO11
    Guest

    Goff

    In re-reading my last post, it appears much more adversarial than I meant for it to be. Just trying to make a point.....

    The thing that most people don't realize about pro golfers is the unbelievable amount of work that goes into it at the highest level. Tiger Woods is only able to do what he does because he truly LIVES for his golf game. I sincerely doubt that in the last 15 years there hasn't been more than a day or two where he has put in less than 4 hours on his game.

    Most pros get up at a reasonable hour, go to the golf course, and spend an hour or two on the range, just hitting ball after ball. The golf swing can be made most reliable through repitition, so that's what they do. Then they work on their short game for an hour or so, then play a 4 hour round. Generally, it then goes back to the range for another couple of hours working on any little glitches they found on the course.

    Nicklaus has said that when he was a teenager he noticed a guy in the Ohio Open hitting laser after laser on the range and thinking, "Wow, that guy hammers it." He was just hitting hard draw after hard draw, and Nicklaus was amazed by how every shot was exactly the same. So he followed that player for his round, where he shot some nutty-low number like a 65-66. After the round, he followed the guy back to the range where he hit laser after laser for another while, then Nicklaus wandered off to follow another player's round. He left the course when it was too dark to stick around any longer, but as he was walking through the gate he heard thwack - thwack - thwack and noticed the same guy was still hitting balls on the range.

    That's what these guys do to become world class. It uses your whole body, requires the specific muscle set that you use most to be in excellent condition, and you always have to work hard and keep your head. It is labor, and for most of the it's a labor of love.

    Maybe not a sport in some eyes, but certainly in mine.

    That guy Nicklaus was following would later win 7 majors and change the game forever, all before doing Pennzoil commercials on TV. Arnold Palmer, and he was about 25 when that day happened. He'd already been playing 16 years.....

    The seniors generally don't work at it the same. I don't watch senior golf, but I don't mind the money they make because they've already put their time and work in over long careers. Get it while you can guys.

  29. #89
    walsh b
    Guest

    Re: Goff

    Fair point TKO, but do you really think a Jack Nicklaus is a greater sportsman than a Muhammad Ali, or Lance Armstrong or Carl Lewis or Ray Robinson???. They are truly dedicated to their golf, no doubt about that. One ather thing, I certainly begrudge the Seniors getting the ridiculous and unjustified amounts of cash they get. They've had their careers and they're still earning tons more loot than up and coming stars on the golf scene.....Like I've said before, if the Morons out there want to pay their cash for that crap....best of luck to the Seniors for taking it.....

  30. #90
    TKO11
    Guest

    Subjectivity

    It's subjective, but yes, I think Nicklaus surpasses all of those guys. His longevity, his year-over-year domination, his records, and his ability to always be the best spokesman possible for his sport puts him at the top of the heap for me.

    Just a dabble of Nicklaus - 18 professional majors (nobody else has more than 11), 19 runner-up finishes in majors (nobody else is even close enough to compare), 67 top-tens in majors (if Tiger was in the top 10 of every major championship each year, he would have to play almost 17 years to match it). First or second in at least one major each year from 1959 to 1984. And yes, I'm fixated on the majors because at the end of the day, nothing else matters. Never out of the top 4 on the money list between 1962 (rookie year) and 1979 (the year he started being a part-time-player).

    In golf, all of that kind of thing was/is utterly unheard of. And you have to benchmark professional athletes against others in their sport.

    As far as being a "sportsman", Gretz compares to Nicklaus. But I can't think of anyone else.

    Re: the seniors, I cna't begrudge anyone what they get on that front. Supply and demand rules the world, and if the players weren't getting the dough it would be the sponsoring companies. I'd rather see the guys they paid to see get the coin rather than the corporate fat cats. As far as the people (morons) throwing their money at it, I feel that senior golf is way more legit than wrestling, yet wrestling is monstrous. A theatrical farce, but monstrous. Yet people find it entertaining, so I say "get it while you can guys".

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