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Thread: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

  1. #91
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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    jeese... yeah clottey landed a few nothing upper cuts as pac was trying to get him to open up..... clottey lost every damn round. if it were not for pac being so great i would say josh was a complete disgrace in this fight.

    i would love to see if maybe weather could pitch such a shut out.

    greg

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Does anybody have RBR punch-stats of Pacquiao in this fight, in comparison with someone like Pryor or Henry Armstrong? With his output I was sure he was going to hit a wall after the first 6-7 rounds, but he kept on and kept on. Couldn't believe what I was watching.

    Still trying to get my head around how his workate is possible.............

    Add it with his speed, power and angles as said above, and you have a fighting nightmare. I mean, these top notch fighters can't even HANG with him. Between DLH, Hatton, Cotto and Clottey, they have barely won a round! WTF!

    At this point, even though I favoured Mayweather, I don't think he will be able to beat this Pacquiao.
    Last edited by The Welterweight Epitome; 03-14-2010 at 02:50 AM.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    I was most impressed by the double handed punch.

    My question is, does he get credit for 2 punches!?!

    He's nothing short of amazing. What else can you say?

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    man, what a lousy card, all around, Duddy Medina was snore inducing, then we come to the Castillo - Gomez fight and Castillo looks like a skeleton and gets battered before quitting, the Soto fight started out promising but turned into a boring sloppy affair,

    after sitting through those three terrible bouts the main event just felt like an extension of the previous three, like they were all one bout,

    Clottey's performance was disgraceful considering all that was at stake, but obviously he couldn't deal or counter Pac's speed or power so just stunk it out covering up all night, which was what I expected would happen, this was a so so fight that did not belong on such a grand stage,

    with all that negativity Pac did look as amazing as ever playing defense and offense moving side to side, covering up and resting in spurts, but it sure was a stinker,

    I just read on fightnews that this was the biggest live gate in the USA in 50 years, and this is what is killing boxing, a huge stage like this and one of the poorest undercards ever and a sparring session as the main event...
    Last edited by prototypeofamodernmadman; 03-14-2010 at 02:52 AM.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Quote Originally Posted by prototypeofamodernmadman
    I just read on fightnews that this was the biggest live gate in the USA in 50 years, and this is what is killing boxing, a huge stage like this and one of the poorest undercards ever and a sparring session as the main event...
    Yeah, I mean all those other Pac undercards recently were just scintillating and he just keeps drawing more. Put boxing on life support.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    It wasn't just the undercard crold1, the previous Pac fights might have had lackluster undercard but the main events more than made up for them, in this case my point is that the main event was also lackluster so there were zero positives.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Greg B - I didn't watch the fight, I went by Adams call but I did just catch some HLs.

    It certainly didn't read like Clottey landed much of anything, let alone the uppercuts. However, the uppercut I did see Clottey land on the HLs was more than nothing. It really got Pac's att but the following straight right hand down the pipe was even better, imo. For a moment thereafter, Pac wasn't punching and that stood out against his otherwise, uninterrupted activity and no, Clottey didn't exactly go balls to the wall to follow up his advantage.

    Still, I know where you're coming from Greg. It was a route. Mentally, I treat Pac with kid gloves - probably because I'm a bit fatalistic when it comes to fighters I really get behind. Pac has shown plenty of durability himself at the higher weight and even if Pac were to be truly shaken by anything in any future bouts, he will not fold like a cheap tent and have plenty in stall for any opponent willing to open right up in an effort to finish the job.

    I suppose a modicum of success on JC's part late in the fight versus his complete ineffectiveness otherwise made the minor success stand out. You know, when guys as good as Pac come along people will look for the most minute of apparent slip ups and weaknesses. To garner that type of isolated focus on any potential negative simply reflects just how good Manny is.

    Nice hit list thus far - DLH, Hatton, Cotto and now Clottey. There will always be some suggested deficiency re the opposition's performance but giant killer Pac is simply mowing them down and in doing so, Pac has been irrefutably GREAT in his OWN RIGHT.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    no... i really thought they were nothing. after the 7th round pac could have coasted to a decision and many other fighters would have, he was still trying to please the whole way. other wise clottey doesn't land those few upper cuts.

    thats the confidence of manny. he actually gave this guy a chance to fight at times and then just took it back with his activity. the ultimate crowd pleaser.

    as bad as clottey looked tonight i really don't think floyd could have dominated him so. i think floyd gets knocked out against pacman..... i really do. he is no where near as durable as josh or as strong and the way manny keeps tossing bombs.... curtains.

    greg

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Quote Originally Posted by walshb
    I think Floyd should be very concerned!

    Think he's not? LOL!

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Quote Originally Posted by walshb
    I have never seen anything as amazing as this. Pacman is astonishing. He completely dominated, and against a far bigger and stronger man. He just was
    on fire. Non stop punching, and so many power shots.

    Pac needs only to train 30 perent of what he does to be competitive with Floyd. His work rate, range, speed, power and angles are out of this world.

    I think he would have been far to much for many welters gone by, and I am talking about Chavez, Pea, Mosley, Curry, Breland, Honeygan etc. He is that
    good.

    Take Pea and Chavez for example. At 147, neither man stands a chance. Chavez would be busted up badly and Pea just too small and not hard enough or busy enough to compete.

    Gonna' make a bold statement and say that only Hearns and Leonard from the last 30 years would beat this man, Duran too. Now, these three are all naturally that bit bigger.

    I am converted now and I think Floyd cannot compete at this ridiculous pace and power.
    Also, Pac is very tactical, clever and resourceful. His range is very deceptive too.

    BTW, if Floyd can beat this, he deserves serious serious credit. All time great no doubt.

    Mosley would be eaten alive by Pacman
    Walsh, have you lost your mind?

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Quote Originally Posted by JLP 6
    Walsh, have you lost your mind?
    Maybe, but Pac last nigh looked like a machine. I have never seen that amount of ferocity for so long. Clottey couldn't do a thing because of it, couldn't even get his shots off

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Didn't see it but heard that Clottey was simply overwhelmed ... however, an interesting point. I also heard that while Paq dominated, if you picked the ten best punches on a highlight reel, they were all landed by Clottey ... On top of it all Paq can really take it as well ... pretty amazing ...

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Quote Originally Posted by HE Grant
    Didn't see it but heard that Clottey was simply overwhelmed ... however, an interesting point. I also heard that while Paq dominated, if you picked the ten best punches on a highlight reel, they were all landed by Clottey ... On top of it all Paq can really take it as well ... pretty amazing ...
    Yes, one could argue that. Clottey was so so defensive that most of Pac's shots hit arms, gloves, elbows and side of head/gloves, but overall he was out of this world. I would say every second shot was a power shot, and he landed many many powerful body shots that would have broke many men

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    This fight was nothing more than Ali v Terrell replayed. Clottey was in survival mode from the first bell with his hands held so high and rigid it was almost comical. I can't knock Pac in anyway as he did what he had to do but he did it against a nothing opponent. I don't care who Clottey had fought previously or how good he looked in those fights, in this fight he showed nothing. And now Pac is Armstrong and Robinson combined? Please..

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Quote Originally Posted by prototypeofamodernmadman
    It wasn't just the undercard crold1, the previous Pac fights might have had lackluster undercard but the main events more than made up for them, in this case my point is that the main event was also lackluster so there were zero positives.
    I agree. Not a great night. NOT killing boxing at all though. Even Tyson had fights like Bonecrusher and Tucker at his height.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    wow. i looked at the fight several times.. and I just do not see Mayweather in 7 out of 12 rounds being able to off set everything Pacman brings to the table. the shoulder roll sh*t or pot shotting, IMO has been enough to beat every he has faced thus far but I can not see it being a winning strategy vs Pacman.

    Sure vs Mayweather, he will catch a lot of counters, and he will catch jabs and see movement. Plus hooks out of this world. There will moments where all pacman fans will be very very concerned because pacman will be right there for Mayweather to counter. However, pacman if a force. He is throwing 100plus punches with speed, power, from all angles ..PER ROUND.

    One other thing, He looked this good vs a fighter that against every other top fighter either broke them down or was in it to the end. He did not win a round. Now styles makes fights, so do not read too much into this, but what i get from this is that no one wants to open up vs him after they see what is coming back their way..Look at it..

    Cotto fighting backwards and to survive.
    DLh quit on his stool
    Hatton flat out destroyed because he fought him
    Clottery fought scared.

    outside of Hatton each of them where bigger fighters than Mayweather generally more courageous fighters etc.

    I see this being a good fight, but Pacman ..a very motivated and angry pacman who will train much harder be in his best shape and focued..I see mayweather NEVER TAKING THIS FIGHT, or pacman either stopping him or it being a clear cut decision. Mayweather just is not active enough.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Pink, I agree with a lot there.

    I was one who held back with the adulation for Pacquiao. I now believe that after his last two destructive wins that he is now at his physical and boxing peak. By this I mean, his balance and rhythm and punch delivery are at peak.

    He looks to be better balanced and less reckless. Faster, stronger and fitter too. Unreal.

    He threw 1200 + punches. Many of these were power shots and still he was bouncing around at the end of rd 12...

    Also, I read that if you push him back you can exploit him, on the back foot the guy was throwing many beautiful shots.

    Floyd has to engage to win, cannot sit back and pot shot this kind of machine. Can he catch Pacman and KO him? I really doubt it.

    Oh yeah, and I too see it as Mayweather maybe not wanting to actually take this fight.

    I can't think of any of the recent welters that would have been able to do that to Clottey.
    I mean, the guy has an iron chin and body, and that was of no use to him because
    it was the power and speed and volume that did him in. I have never seen such a combination
    from recent welters.

    People can say that Clottey didn't do much, but even when he was opening up
    and almost winning rds, back came Pac to overwhelm him and steal those rds.
    Last edited by walshb; 03-15-2010 at 07:41 AM.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Quote Originally Posted by walshb
    I think Floyd should be very concerned!
    Mayweather is nothing like Clottey.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Quote Originally Posted by mrbig1
    Mayweather is nothing like Clottey.
    I never said that he was. I have already said why Floyd should be concerned in
    posts after the one you quoted.
    Last edited by walshb; 03-14-2010 at 11:56 AM.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Quote Originally Posted by mrbig1
    Mayweather is nothing like Clottey.
    Agreed and styles makes fights. I think Pacman would have to deal with counters and i believe he will be eating many counters all night.

    however, i do not see the 147 pound version of mayweather having enough offensive output and simply the fistic confidence to engage Pacman in a fight were he does enough for 7 out of 12 rounds to win. i simply do not see it.

    Hell vs DLH he had issues with DLh jab and aggessivness. He layed back til he got tired. Look at the 1st 4 rounds vs Judah.

    Trust me...if Mayweather starts off slow vs Pacman and pacman throws 100 plus punches per round..it is over for Mayweather. Styles makes fights sure, what fighter and style posed the biggest challenge for him? Castillo and it was organized pressure with punches that caused this. Well Pacman is 10X that with more power and speed.

    I am not saying Mayweather does not have the tools, as Pacman had issues at 135 vs a counter puncher. I am saying that Mayweather has not used the tools enough in any recent fights to offset what we are seeing from the madman (pacman).

    1st Mayweather has to deal with Mosley.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Does anyone know what the unofficial weights were from the HBO weigh in last night as to what they entered the ring weighing? Did Manny hurt his hand as suspected Adam in that one round you wrote about?

    thanks,

    Ron

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    I'm with Wpink here. Unlike others I haven't been impressed with Floyd's performances since he fought at 140. He is in a lose-lose situation with Pacquao . . he can box and potshot per usual in which case Pacquao wins a decision via workrate and aggression, or he actually chooses to engage in which case he'd get knocked out. But I don't think he ever takes the fight.

    Hell, I'm surprised so many are assuming Floyd beats Mosley . . .

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    ron,

    i do not believe they submitted to an unofficial weigh in. clottey looked to me to be 10-12 lbs heavier than pacquiao.

    no mention was made of a hurt hand after the fight and pac sure did not fight like he was hurt as he fired both all the way.

    greg

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    I don't think Clottey has anything to be ashamed of. He did everything he could within his abilities. His defense-first, medium-power shot, sustained pressure style is all wrong for someone like Pac. This was successful against guys like Corrales, Margarito & Cotto who didn't have the legs & someone like Zab who gets overwhelmed when someone keeps coming at him. Pac is just too mobile, fast, busy & mentally tough for that to be effective. I'm sure Pac's body attack had a lot to do with slowing Clottey down as well. I thought Clottey would take a few rounds early but once again Roach had a great plan & Pac followed it 100%. Pedal to the metal all night, just amazing stuff. But I also think PBF would have shut out Clottey much the same way.

    This still doesn't change my feelings on Pac-PBF. Everything changes when you have someone in front of you who is faster & more accurate. Throughout history, speed has shown to make any fighter's activity decline & don't fool yourselves that Pac can't get KOd by PBF.

    When this fight happens (and indeed it will whether PBF wins or not), Pac will start quickly & be up his ass all night. If Pac presses the fight too much in spots like he has in his last 2, he will get caught. I believe Pac has the tools to win this fight as long as he stays the course. Pac has a good defense now but there will not be the same room for error as there was for Cotto & Clottey.

    Pac stands to make a ton of money with either Mosley or PBF. I still maintain that the Pac-PBF fight "fall-though" was all scripted & just part of a grand scheme to make the fight even bigger. I believe letting these 2 take fights in the interim was just a calculated risk in the plan. Pac-PBF is going to make even more money than it would have after all of this. It's going to be one amazing gate when it's all over. PBF's ego isn't worried one bit. Trust me.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Manny Pacquiao is a beast.

    Enjoy him while he is here.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Hmmm...Taking a bow. I told you guys BEFORE the Barerra one fight that this guy was a DEMPSEY. A rare talent. A real killer in the ring, full of rage and ferocity. I ALSO said that he would defeat Floyd Jr. and everyone laughed, especially Ric farris who said Manny was TOO SMALL to tangle with these guys. Well now. NOw you know why a Dempsey of 1919 would mangle bigger heavies of today. FIGHTING. Some guys are pure fighters and you mix that with TALENT AND SKILLS and you have something special. Aaron Pryor had it too and he would have been hell for the bigger guys like Hearns and Leonard. Too bad he didnt have the charactor to get his chance. Boxing is a sport when guys like this come along once in a while. Its once in a while now......
    Clottey is strong big etc, but he is no warrior. He took his money and survived and cheated himself. Carmen Basilio he aint...

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    Quote Originally Posted by diggity
    I don't think Clottey has anything to be ashamed of. He did But I also think PBF would have shut out Clottey much the same way.
    .
    I cannot see how Floyd and his style could be so so dominant against
    Clottey, who has a pretty good defense. Volume beats Clottey, and speed
    and body shots. Floyd doesn't come close in terms of volume.

    I think Floyd beats Cotto and Clottey, but he has a far tougher task, or closer task. He may not take as many shots as Pac, but he won't land near as many either.
    Last edited by walshb; 03-15-2010 at 07:42 AM.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10


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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    I think Mayweather will have to retire in order to preserve his precious '0' - no way will fighting Pacman be like fighting a strangely passive De La Hoya.

    Pacman all day for me, the finest fighter of modern times, fights anybody, acts like a true gentleman and is a crowd pleaser.

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    Re: Pac-Clottey Results & Discussion, March/13/10

    i think some are being too easy on josh. he knew what he was up against and should have trained for it or at least come in with a game plan to deal with it. if he ever thought he was going to win this fight with his hands held in front of his face for at least 3/4's of every round he should have passed.

    rocky you were right in your post before the fight. clottey does not throw enough punches to beat a pacquiao. but... he should have known to throw more and for the sake of the size of the event tried to. not sure what he earned by way of purse last night but he did not deserve whatever it was. at least i will never lay down any dough to see him fight on a PPV ever again.

    i think maybeweather will be slicker but i don't see him standing up to manny in an attempt to hurt him. i don't think he can hurt him seriously enough to win. it will be interesting to see how he handles shanes onslaught to be able to gauge what manny will be able to do. considering the effect of the castillo body attack on floyd at his age now..... wow. i think manny is going to drop the guy.

    dig.... all respect as always but i think your conspiracy theory is a bit suspect. if it was part of a grand plan we are past phase one. its up to floyd to beat mosely but i don't get the feeling he wants pacman.

    greg

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