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Thread: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

  1. #31
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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Lipton
    All I can say is that it looked like he dove out of the ring to me, it also looked like a big strong guy in shape for a main event should not have been hurt that bad from the way the fall looked. It truly looked like a quit swallow job.

    If the medical shows otherwise or he was really hurt, I apologize, but the replays did nothing to convince me that he could not have gotten up and wanted to fight. This one needs a medical to explain to the fans what the hell really happened.

    Terrible ending. I hope Marcel Cerdan was not watching after going all those rounds with Jake with a bad shoulder. I must be in the wrong era, guys crying in the ring, quitting at the drop of a hat, ducking guys, making them take blood tests every day, does anyone have balls anymore?
    Ron, I seen that swan dive that Cintron did last nite, looked like he was trying out for the Olympics diving team....

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    Yeah, it really looked bad Frank.
    How are the boys doing?
    best wishes to the family,

    Ron

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    Have any of you guys seen something as bizarre as that in a boxing ring?

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Lipton
    Yeah, it really looked bad Frank.
    How are the boys doing?
    best wishes to the family,

    Ron
    Ron, we're all doing fine, thank you....

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    In this post-fight video, Cintron says he was robbed and that he was fighting the best fight of his life.

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    Quote Originally Posted by kikibalt
    Ron, I seen that swan dive that Cintron did last nite, looked like he was trying out for the Olympics diving team....
    hahahah

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    He wasn't hurt. I've seen much worse falls in a kids playground and they get up and carry on running around. He'll probably claim some phoney back injury and try and sue the promotor or whoever. I don't like to bad mouth any fighter but I'll make an exception for him, what a pussy he should be ashamed of himself.

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    Quote Originally Posted by GPater11093
    Have any of you guys seen something as bizarre as that in a boxing ring?
    Yeah...how about when Mills Lane accidentally pushed B-Hop completely out of the ring against Robert Allen?

    Kyoodle

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    I shit you not, it is so fucking pathetic you have got to laugh.

    Laying there milking it like that, for 100 million tax free I could not do that to myself as a pro fighter, without telling anyone ever I did it for the dough.

    For free, sheeeeeeeeet, forget about it, AND he was doing ok too, WTF???

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    When I think of Marciano with his nose split in half, or even Big George with his face caved in by a guy I refereed, Alex Stewart, if ever someone should swan dive out of the freaking ring to save their ass, but THIS? The dude flew like superman springing off a high dive, then the replay showed NO HEAD STRIKE, and he is grabbing the back of his head, come on man, laying there like a dead man, and then does the interview afterward with no injuries.

    I've seen guys in bars take life ending beatings and keep fighting back, a pro fighter on national-worldwide tv, total pussy move.

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    That was ridiculous. The thing that made it obvious was that he didnt even try to grab the ropes, it looked like he purposely dove straight through. Then later in an interview he changed his story a couple of times saying he hurt his back, then that he got the wind knocked out of him, etc etc. Hes a dog. Paul landed two solid right hands right before the fall, Kermit landed one as well and Paul came right back at him. I think it was another example of Cintron not being able to handle pressure.

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wladimir Klitschko Sucks
    Seems like there's always some kind of female drama behavior in a Kermit Cintron's fight,

    WKS
    true that. cintron has been is some strange situations. i do however doubt that he could think fast enough to toss his body out of the ring. i thought he was fighting a cagey fight. both cards of 36-40 and 40-36 were crap. neither guy had done that well at that point.

    still if kermit wanted to fight he should have slapped away that guy holding him down and taken the 5 minutes... get back in and fight. this was a big moment for him. i think williams under estimated him. i can't see paul making that mistake in a rematch.

    greg

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    http://i40.tinypic.com/14mup3b.jpg

    In that clip you can see Cintron clearly pushes off on his left foot and INTENTIONALLY jumps out of the ring like a fucking pro wrestler,

    WKS

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    thats a clip? i am getting a photo of cintron with williams head in his arm pit.

    greg

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    Perhaps a CBZ Historian can correct me, but isn't this precisely how Dempsey behaved when he was knocked out of the ring by Firpo? From what I recall, he flopped onto the floor and lay there, face-first and without moving an inch, for 15 minutes.

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    Nice one Todd!

    I see no reason, given where the bout was at the time of it ending, why Kermit would WANT to bail out as it looks as though he did. Certainly nothing DOMINANT was happening yet in terms of what Williams was doing.

    But at the same time, WHY would Cintron Purposefully avoid all 4 ropes that were in front of him as he was falling towards them.

    Clearly when he approached the ropes, he made a concerted effort to AVOID contact with any of the ropes and yes, leaped purposefully THROUGH them.

    Did he think the ropes were electrified or barbed wire?

    Geez the worst thing that happens if you fall into the ropes is you bounce back off them and land on your keister.

    I've never seen it's like, with what happened and WHEN it happened, as what we saw Saturday night.

    Just completely bizarre.

    Hawk

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyoodle
    Yeah...how about when Mills Lane accidentally pushed B-Hop completely out of the ring against Robert Allen?

    Kyoodle
    Haha

    Yeh that was funny

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    First, I didn't see the fight, I have only seen the clip from VKS's post. At this moment in time I have no problem with Cintron's fall.

    Before I started boxing I was on the wrestling team in high school and collage and no matter how hard I worked I coud never stop carrying my weight like a wrestler, especially when the action got hot. If you carry and distribute your weight like a wrestler while trying to box, it makes you appear clumsy and awkward. When Cintron comes out of the scramble his weight is way in front of his front leg , and he is moving, falling forward. I have been in that position and I couldn't stop myself either. I think that Cintron deserves the benefit of the doubt here.

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    134

    If he simply was falling, I could get behind that. But he was falling and based on how he was, he should have fell right into the ropes (there are 4 of them!), but he made a last second LEAP through the ropes, to try and AVOID the ropes.

    Which is why I have a hard time giving him a pass for WHAT he did, whihc still makes no sense to me.

    Hawk

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    Re: 134

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk5ins
    If he simply was falling, I could get behind that. But he was falling and based on how he was, he should have fell right into the ropes (there are 4 of them!), but he made a last second LEAP through the ropes, to try and AVOID the ropes.

    Which is why I have a hard time giving him a pass for WHAT he did, whihc still makes no sense to me.

    Hawk
    At least he did it with style, beautiful dive, I give him a 9....

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    yeah yeah... its always some conspiracy some how. pacman is on roids, dirrel flopped in a fight he was winning and now cintron makes a perfectly timed leap though the ropes to avoid mixing it up with paul williams..... i don't buy it but i guess we can argue it to distractration..... or not.

    greg

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    Coming back to this late, and not having followed the post-fight chatter and gossip of the last, oh, 36 hours -- here's my take.

    Somebody here said (sorry for not making note of who it was) that Cintron could not make a conscious effort to eject himself out of the ring, upon such split-second notice after the tangling of legs. After viewing the video replay and pondering a bit, I agree. I suspect Cintron was off-balance, and decided that landing on a press table was a safer landing than tumbling to the concrete -- so he pushed off his leg to get there. But, being the well-established crier and moaner that he is, once he landed the table, he instinctively clutched/pointed to the back of neck to indicate "injury, here!" -- and along the same lines, went limp and slouched to the floor. Meanwhile, his shyster lawyer/handler, sensing a golden opportunity to get a NC/rematch, or better yet, a narrow victory on the cards, sidled up next to the prostate Cintron and insisted that he stay down. Cintron, being who he is and all that, gladly complied. Then the ref came over, and hearing the plaints and sensing no life in the "victim," ruled Cintron unfit to continue. After conferring with his handler/lawyer, or on his own accord, Cintron displayed a phony act of disgust/protest as he was being carried away on the gurney.

    Next, I will decode the Zapruder film, frame by frame.

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    I love Kermit...His name, his crying, after getting punched, thinking it was a headbutt, how Antonio destroyed him twice, and maybe it not be fair.

    WKS, link was hilarious. I was laughing to myself today at work reading the post on this thread.

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    Hawk

    Four ropes are not a wall. Though they make a fine barrier when you are standing up , there are body sized gaps between them when you are not standing up. It looks to me that Cintron was moving bent over in a off balance lurch with his head at the level of the gap between the ropes. I really don't think he could have stopped in the little amount of room he had.


    134

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    But

    He stumbled, vertically. ANd then leaped horizontally.

    THere was no reason to "dive" other than to avoid the ropes.

    And I have no understanding why he would want to avoid the ropes.

    It simply made no sense.

    And again, where he was in the bout, with what was happening, there is NO reason to want an 'out'.

    I have NO idea why he did what he did and I am not accusing him of anything.

    I'm simply saying his actions made no sense.

    But I do believe it was a 'dive' and not a 'fall'.

    Hawk

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    Cintron decision will remain loss for now, head of state athletic commission rules

    May 10, 2010

    The executive officer of the California State Athletic Commission has ruled that Kermit Cintron's technical split-decision loss to super-welterweight Paul Williams on Saturday at Carson's Home Depot Center will remain a defeat, although the entire commission can still hear Cintron's appeal at its next meeting in July, a state spokesman said.

    Cintron's promoter and manager earlier Monday appealed to Executive Officer George Dodd to change Cintron's loss to a no-contest after the Puerto Rican former world welterweight champion became entangled with Williams and stumbled through the ropes, falling out of the ring and crashing to the floor during the fourth round.

    Ringside Dr. Paul Wallace told The Times on Monday that Cintron twice told doctors he was unable to continue because of back pain, prompting Wallace to instruct referee Lou Moret that the fight should be stopped.

    California rules allowed the bout to then be sent to the judges' scorecards, and while one judge gave Cintron all four rounds, another gave Williams all four rounds. The tiebreaker went to a judge who gave Williams three of the four rounds, although the fourth was never completed.

    "If ever a fight cried out to be a no-contest," Cintron promoter Lou DiBella said, "this is the one."

    DiBella said he received a text message from Cintron on Monday after reading Dr. Wallace's comments on latimes.com, and the fighter said he "may have said no," to the question of whether or not he wants to continue fighting, but that he was also "gasping for air" at the time and didn't fully understand the gravity of the situation.

    "It was a confusing time," DiBella said. "No one was telling Kermit what the rule was, how he had a reasonable time to recover and then decide if he wanted to resume. There was no coherent instruction as to what was happening."

    Wallace said he believed Cintron fully understood what was at stake, and had also told the doctors he was not experiencing any head or neck pain from the fall. The fighter was ultimately placed on a gurney with his head stabilized so he could be removed from the arena and transported to a hospital for supervision.

    The loss was only the third in Cintron's career, following two defeats at the hands of former world welterweight champion Antonio Margarito.

    DiBella expressed outrage that Williams' promoter, Dan Goossen, is hurriedly moving to put this event behind the fighter and move on to fights in the welterweight division, against possible foes including Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao, instead of a rematch. DiBella said he is "angered" at Goossen's implications that Cintron wasn't that seriously hurt.

    "Giving Kermit a loss is unfair, and will have a serious impact on his ability in this business," DiBella said. "Calling this fight a no-contest stops Goossen from doing exactly what he's doing right now."

    --Lance Pugmire
    latimes
    Last edited by kikibalt; 05-10-2010 at 10:51 PM.

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    the doctor twice asked Cintron if he could continue and TWICE he said no: http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=27675

    he should be suspended and have his purse withheld and, this should be changed to a KO loss,

    WKS

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    It blows my mind that somebody would go through all of the training & years of boxing it takes to even get a fight like Keermit or Dirrell had for them to just mentally explode & blow it. Given, that dive looked beyond strange, but I just cannot wrap my mind around someone deliberately trying to find a way out of a fight like many suggest these 2 guys did after all of that hard work. How could you live with yourself?

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    Dig

    I certainly cannot group in Dirrell with Cintron.

    One was a situation where a fighter was drilled while on the canvas and the other was diving out of the ring when in fact, NOTHING had happened up to that point. Not Hit. Not Hurt. Nothing.

    Still don't know how you avoid all 4 ropes or don't throw a hand or arm up to try and grab something while "falling".

    Really, he had to TRY to Miss the ropes.

    Just ODD.

    Hawk

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    Re: Paul Williams-Kermit Cintron: Who D'Ya Like?

    Cintron’s Saturday Critics Veer From Stupid To Offensive
    By Lyle Fitzsimmons from Boxing Scene

    Maybe it’s the jet lag.

    No question, the practice of traipsing from Florida to California and back within a 22-hour time frame is enough to wobble the senses of an already-loopy 41-year-old like myself.

    But the more I review snippets of commentary coming off Saturday night’s curtailed main event at the Home Depot Center in suburban Los Angeles, the less I think it’s me who’s nuts.

    Rather than the “tough luck” and “give him another shot” sentiment I naturally assumed would follow Kermit Cintron’s ill-fated tumble and dubious scorecard loss to multi-division phenom Paul Williams, the responses in some circles have leaned toward harsh at best.

    And ridiculous at worst.

    Before we begin, however… make no mistake. I’m aware of Kermit’s history.

    I know some snicker when recalling his emotional in-ring collapse following a loss to Antonio Margarito in 2005. I understand some thought it scorn worthy when he writhed on the floor with hand pain after stopping Jesse Feliciano two years later.

    And I was there in South Florida last year when he went down from a Sergio Martinez punch that he unsuccessfully tried to reason away as a butt. After the fight, his complaints about what appeared to be a generous draw didn’t help matters either.

    Like it or not, those events and reactions will follow him forever.

    But some things I’ve heard since Saturday’s end have crossed even those modified lines.

    One member of the Williams entourage set up camp to the left side of the podium at the post-fight press conference – which occurred while Cintron was in an ambulance – and loudly opined that he had intentionally taken “a dive” in order to avoid the final eight-plus rounds with his foe.

    Another set of post-fight views – courtesy of Buffalo-based “professional boxing businessman” Rick Glaser on Facebook – have tagged Kermit as both a “jumping frog” and “gutless” based on TV footage, while separately adding “hopefully, we've seen the last of Cintron on HBO!!”

    Even George Peterson got in on the act Sunday when he was quoted by Rick Reeno, saying “Even before this, I knew something was going to happen with this guy. When he fought Jesse Feliciano, he won the fight and then realized that he had to fight Paul Williams and you saw what happened. He's a nice guy and I think he's going to come back from this, but he didn't want to fight Paul.”

    It’s been 48 hours and I could still use a little sleep… but I’m coherent enough to know stupidity.

    And all these comments, folks, are nothing but.

    I’d expect it from an apologist wannabe in the first instance. It’s loathsome from a 2,500-mile removed spectator in the second. But when it comes from a guy who was just feet away from the action – and someone who, quite frankly, really ought to know better – it stumbles into offensive.

    Predictably, I’m not the only one who thinks so.

    “Everyone around him thought he was winning the fight. He was the one landing the powerful blows, not Williams,” promoter Lou DiBella said via phone Monday. “It’s a horrible thing to say. The last person who wanted that to happen was Kermit Cintron. It’s the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard.”

    Asked what he thinks of those offering such opinions, DiBella pulled no punches.

    “I think they’re *ssholes,” he said. “They’re ignorant people who don’t know what they’re talking about. He was saying he wanted to continue and the doctor wouldn’t let him up. It’s remarkable to me that people would say those sorts of things. It’s shameful.”

    As is often the case when the feisty New Yorker fires with both barrels, I couldn’t agree more.

    Not only is it a stretch of athletic proportion to claim – as two judges did – that Williams won either three or four rounds in the aborted match, but such reasoning picks up a despicable scent when coupled with an attack on an admittedly emotional, but always brave, competitor.

    Past or no past, it defies sensibility to think – in a split-second’s time – Cintron devised a plan to land a solid punch on Williams, spin him to the ground and fly over him to the ring floor to escape continuation of a fight he’d controlled from start to finish in the eyes of a third judge.

    Or that he was merely acting or changing his story while insisting to the doctor he could continue.

    Though not as offensive, Williams promoter Dan Goossen also resisted reason by saying there was “nothing that went on in that ring for three rounds that makes me think we have to have a rematch. Their corner will tell you that he could’ve gone on. Whatever the doctor and Kermit spoke about when he was on the ground, I wasn’t privy to.”

    To his credit, Williams said he thought Cintron wanted to fight.

    He also indicated that if such a direction were chosen by his team, he’d be “all in” for a return bout.

    “We all understand that if a bout with Pacquiao or Mayweather is available, they’d take it,” DiBella said, “but in the absence of that we’ll certainly pursue a rematch. We’re in the business of pursuing major fights for Kermit and (a rematch) is the fight we’d want the most.”

    If there is no agreement with Williams, DiBella said Cintron could take on the winner of next month’s Yuri Foreman-Miguel Cotto title bout at 154 pounds or perhaps make a deal with Shane Mosley, who still holds the WBA welterweight title in spite of his loss to Mayweather on May 1.

    “It shouldn’t hurt his stature and it won’t have any long-term effect on his career,” DiBella said, “but there should not be a loss on his record because of a bullsh*t rule.”

    * * * * * * * * * *

    This week’s title-fight schedule:

    FRIDAY
    WBO junior middleweight title – Santa Ynez, Calif.
    Sergiy Dzinziruk (champion) vs. Daniel Dawson (No. 13 contender)
    Dzinziruk (36-0, 22 KO): Sixth title defense; First fight in United States
    Dawson (34-1, 24 KO): Second title fight (0-1, 0 KO); Unbeaten since 2007 (5-0, 4 KO)
    Fitzbitz says: “The Ukrainian is stepping up the PR game. A big effort here will help.” – Dzinziruk in 10.

    SATURDAY
    WBO junior bantamweight title – Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Evert Briceno (No. 1 contender) vs. Omar Narvaez (unranked)
    Briceno (32-5-1, 26 KO): Second title fight (0-1, 0 KO); Lost only fight outside Nicaragua (0-1, 0 KO)
    Narvaez (31-0-2, 19 KO): Eighteenth title fight (16-0-1, 7 KO); Reigning WBO champion at 112 pounds
    Fitzbitz says: “An established flyweight adds a second weight class to the resume.” – Narvaez by decision.

    IBF featherweight title – Ciudad Obregon, Mexico
    Cristobal Cruz (champion) vs. Orlando Salido (No. 6 contender)
    Cruz (39-11-2, 23 KO): Fourth title defense; Beat Salido (SD 12) to win vacant title in 2008
    Salido (33-10-2, 22 KO): Fourth title fight (0-2, 1 ND, 0 KO); Failed drug test after IBF title win in 2006
    Fitzbitz says: “A rare title-fight matchup of guys with double-digit losses. Cruz’s 11 must go.” – Salido by decision.

    WBA super lightweight title – New York, N.Y.
    Amir Khan (champion) vs. Paul Malignaggi (No. 3 contender)
    Khan (22-1, 16 KO): Second title defense; Unbeaten above 135 pounds (13-0, 9 KO)
    Malignaggi (27-3, 5 KO): Sixth title fight (3-2, 0 KO); Held IBF title at 140 pounds (2007-08)
    Fitzbitz says: “UPSET! A hometown return to prominence for a former champ who’s never gone away.” – Malignaggi by decision.

    Vacant WBC cruiserweight title – Lodz, Poland
    Krzysztof Wlodarczyk (No. 1 contender) vs. Giacobbe Fragomeni (No. 2 contender)
    Wlodarczyk (42-2-1, 31 KO): Fourth title fight (1-1-1, 0 KO); Held IBF title at 200 pounds (2006-07)
    Fragomeni (26-2-1, 10 KO): Fourth title fight (1-1-1, 0 KO); Drew with Wlodarczyk (SD 12) in 2009
    Fitzbitz says: “After a draw in Fragomeni’s homeland, the Pole gets it done on his own turf.” – Wlodarczyk by decision.

    WBC lightweight title – Los Mochis, Mexico
    Humberto Soto (champion) vs. Ricardo Dominguez (No. 3 contender)
    Soto (51-7-2, 32 KO): First title defense; Held WBC title at 130 pounds (2008-09)
    Dominguez (31-5-2, 19 KO): First title fight; Unbeaten since 2009 (5-0, 4 KO)
    Fitzbitz says: “Soto’s waited too long for a spotlight fight to lose before it arrives.” – Soto in 9.

    MONDAY
    WBA super featherweight title – Saitama, Japan
    Takashi Uchiyama (champion) vs. Angel Granados (No. 13 contender)
    Uchiyama (14-0, 11 KO): First title defense; Four straight wins by stoppage
    Granados (18-8, 8 KO): First title fight; Six losses in last 13 fights (7-6, 6 KO)
    Fitzbitz says: “A walk-through first defense for Japanese slugger.” – Uchiyama in 7.

    Last week’s picks: 0-0
    Overall picks record: 95-36 (72.5 percent)

    Lyle Fitzsimmons is an award-winning 21-year sports journalist, a full voting member of the Boxing Writers Association of America and absolutely does not believe Cintron had an R Kelly sing in his head at the conclusion of Saturday’s fight.

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