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Thread: Ayub Kalule vs Emiliano Villa

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    Re: Ayub Kalule vs Emiliano Villa

    Villa was a southpaw with a nice style to look at from Colombia when that country was producing terrific fighters in the 70's: Kid Pambele, Rodrigo Valdez, Ricardo Cardona, and Alfredo Pitalua.

    Emiliano went the distance with the great Benitez at jr. welterweight in his firt world title shot in the Garden, had the misfortune to run into a hungry Duran in a killing mood on his own home turf in Panama City, and was outboxed and stopped by Ayub, who was considered at that time to be one of the best fighters in the world.

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    Re: Ayub Kalule vs Emiliano Villa

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerKarl
    .... and was outboxed and stopped by Ayub, who was considered at that time to be one of the best fighters in the world.
    I seem to recall that Kalule was never considered one of the best fighters in the world, even when he was an undefeated world champion.

    At that time, there were champions like Holmes, Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, Duran (recently deposed), M. Spinks, Saad Muhammad, Mustafa Muhammad, Arguello, Sanchez, and Gomez... and Kalule wasn't considered on par with any of them. When Leonard stepped up in weight to challenge Kalule, it was considered little more than a tune-up for Leonard's next fight with Hearns.

    Are you sure about this, StingerKarl?

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    Re: Ayub Kalule vs Emiliano Villa

    Kalule was pretty highly regarded.

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    Re: Ayub Kalule vs Emiliano Villa

    Kalule was 36-0. He was considered to be a somewhat fast fighter, that was a converted southpaw. Many people forget that he was in 1976 considered the best amateur boxer in the world at the weight class sugar ray leonard was at (light welter), ranked ahead of Ray, but because of the boycott they did not meet. When ray and him met, true even though he was highly regarded, he was not one the best in the world. At that time, there was Hagler, Duran, Hearns, benetiz, leoanrd, many others. His speed and boxing ability was highly regarded, his chin was supposed to be granite, but he had 0 power. Ray moved in weight and came right after Kalule, taking some good shots, and never taking a backwards step.

    I have a video with Hearns doing the commentary to this fight, and he and the announcers were saying Ray is completely disrespecting him and his power, and Hearns saying he hoped and prayed ray would come after him the same way.

    The funny thing about this fight, was that after the fight was over, Hearns was doing the commentary and could barely talk, it was bad, and Ray say "get off the mike tommy you sound like a dummy".

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    Re: Ayub Kalule vs Emiliano Villa

    Quote Originally Posted by wpink
    The funny thing about this fight, was that after the fight was over, Hearns was doing the commentary and could barely talk, it was bad, and Ray say "get off the mike tommy you sound like a dummy".
    That was the closed circuit feed and if my memory serves me (it's only been 29 years) Ray said to Tommy "Take off that headset, you look like a dummy" referring to the headpiece microphone Tommy was wearing.

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    Re: Ayub Kalule vs Emiliano Villa

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Frank
    I seem to recall that Kalule was never considered one of the best fighters in the world, even when he was an undefeated world champion.

    At that time, there were champions like Holmes, Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, Duran (recently deposed), M. Spinks, Saad Muhammad, Mustafa Muhammad, Arguello, Sanchez, and Gomez... and Kalule wasn't considered on par with any of them. When Leonard stepped up in weight to challenge Kalule, it was considered little more than a tune-up for Leonard's next fight with Hearns.

    Are you sure about this, StingerKarl?
    Kalule was a terrific fighter, a first rate technician who beat many tough middleweights in his rise to the jr. middleweight title.

    I should have said he was one of the best technicians in the world when he beat Villa.

    He was considered more than a tune-up for Ray, Kalule was never a tune-up for any fighter.

    Kalule's flaw was that he couldn't punch real hard, but he had a good run.

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    Re: Ayub Kalule vs Emiliano Villa

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerKarl
    Kalule was a terrific fighter, a first rate technician who beat many tough middleweights in his rise to the jr. middleweight title.

    I should have said he was one of the best technicians in the world when he beat Villa.

    He was considered more than a tune-up for Ray, Kalule was never a tune-up for any fighter.

    Kalule's flaw was that he couldn't punch real hard, but he had a good run.
    Such was the confidence that Leonard had in his abilities, that he would take on Kalule as a 'tune-up' three months before a mega fight with Tommy Hearns.

    Ray was always strategicaly matched style-wise with an eye to future opponents and Kalule to me represented a guy that was similar in size and southpaw style to Marvin Hagler. I feel the same about Leonard's defence against Larry Bonds who was likely chosen based on being a southpaw. Ray was always preparing for potential opponents down the road.

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    Re: Ayub Kalule vs Emiliano Villa

    I recall that Leonard was matched with southpaw Bonds to prepare him for Kalule. Which was a fight (Kalule) for which Ray had sufficient motivation: a second world title.

    Matching Ray with Kalule, to prepare him for Hagler, I hadn't heard before.

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    Re: Ayub Kalule vs Emiliano Villa

    Dundee was in Steve Gregory's corner for his title challenge against Kalule.

    A comically one-sided fight that highlighted Kalule's almost complete lack of punching power.I doubt the Leonard camp would have taken the fight had he been a good puncher, the risk/reward wouldn't have been worth it.They may have also been aware of Kalule's troubles making weight.

    Still, bold matchmaking and not the kind of thing you will see coming from the likes of Floyd.

    Kalule is an interesting fighter imo.Big drawbacks in the punching power/durability stakes, but also in many ways a consummate technician.Certainly he would have benefited more than most from the "if only he had the power to match his skills" cliche.

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    Re: Ayub Kalule vs Emiliano Villa

    Quote Originally Posted by starlingstomp
    Still, bold matchmaking and not the kind of thing you will see coming from the likes of Floyd.
    Stomp,

    Funny, while I can't stand PBF, not anything about him... I still think that, PFP, his opponents, near-death as some might have been, were better than Kalule.

    De La Hoya, Mosley, possibly Hatton, maybe others, were all better, more dangerous, than Kalule. At least IMO.

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    Mooch

    I see and agree with what you are saying here re Kalule. ANd understand Stinger's point as well.

    Kalule, admittedly was not AS good as a Leonard or Hearns or Hagler or Duran or Holmes or Spinks, or Gomez or Sanchez or Arguello or Pryor or Pedroza or Benitez. Buuut, while fighting IN this era, he was still considered among the top 15 fighters in the game at the time. Add in Pintor and Chandler as well. And Laciar and Saad or EMM or Qawi as well.

    Being considered one of the top FIFTEEN fighters in an era like that (at the time he faced SRL in 81') means a WHOLE lot more than being top 15 TODAY.

    THAT Kalule fights TODAY, he's in the middle of the pack in the top 10.

    And to your point Mooch, I have a hard time envisioning Mayweather stepping up to 154 to take on Kalule. It would be the same thing as when he "talked about, but never acted upon" fighting Winky Wright at 154.

    Squaring off with a worn down, Inactive, well past his prime, De la Hoya, who had only looked good agiasnt the limited Mayorga in his last several bouts, is a whole lot more appealing (and a bigger money maker too boot), than taking on a prime Kalule.

    Like Winky Wright, I say Floyd doesn't touch Kalule with a 10 foot pole.

    BTW, Kalule vs Winky Wright is an interesting Fantasy bout.....

    Hawk

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    Re: Mooch

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk5ins
    BTW, Kalule vs Winky Wright is an interesting Fantasy bout.....

    Hawk
    Yeah if I was having trouble sleeping!

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    HA!

    I meant only from the stand point that it would be difficult to pick a winner.

    But absolutely, it would be an atrociously dull fight between two non punchers!

    Hawk

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    Re: HA!

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk5ins
    I meant only from the stand point that it would be difficult to pick a winner.

    But absolutely, it would be an atrociously dull fight between two non punchers!

    Hawk
    It should come with a warning:

    DO NOT WATCH THIS FIGHT IF YOU WILL SOON BE DRIVING OR WORKING WITH HEAVY MACHINERY.

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    Re: Ayub Kalule vs Emiliano Villa

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Frank
    Stomp,

    Funny, while I can't stand PBF, not anything about him... I still think that, PFP, his opponents, near-death as some might have been, were better than Kalule.

    De La Hoya, Mosley, possibly Hatton, maybe others, were all better, more dangerous, than Kalule. At least IMO.

    Nah, i think Kalule would have very comfortably outclassed a DLH or Mosley fighting above 147,neither of the two ever impressed me there.Neither have anywhere near the offense and physical strength at this weight needed to knock the Ugandan off-Kilter and take advantage of his lack of power.they sure as hell aren't outboxing him in any kind of steady medium paced fight.

    hatton isn't half the fighter imo.Look at the guy kalule beats in that video, watch Villa against Duran and his chessmatch with Benitez as well...Hatton was an pretty average to decent champ among mostly ordinary comp.He never had it in him to hang with genuine talents on a consistent basis(add in other obscure but worthy fighters like HEctor Thompson and Alfonso Frazer at 140)to say nothing of Cervantes etc...
    Last edited by starlingstomp; 07-01-2010 at 01:44 PM.

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    Re: Mooch

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk5ins
    I see and agree with what you are saying here re Kalule. ANd understand Stinger's point as well.

    Kalule, admittedly was not AS good as a Leonard or Hearns or Hagler or Duran or Holmes or Spinks, or Gomez or Sanchez or Arguello or Pryor or Pedroza or Benitez. Buuut, while fighting IN this era, he was still considered among the top 15 fighters in the game at the time. Add in Pintor and Chandler as well. And Laciar and Saad or EMM or Qawi as well.

    Being considered one of the top FIFTEEN fighters in an era like that (at the time he faced SRL in 81') means a WHOLE lot more than being top 15 TODAY.

    THAT Kalule fights TODAY, he's in the middle of the pack in the top 10.

    And to your point Mooch, I have a hard time envisioning Mayweather stepping up to 154 to take on Kalule. It would be the same thing as when he "talked about, but never acted upon" fighting Winky Wright at 154.

    Squaring off with a worn down, Inactive, well past his prime, De la Hoya, who had only looked good agiasnt the limited Mayorga in his last several bouts, is a whole lot more appealing (and a bigger money maker too boot), than taking on a prime Kalule.

    Like Winky Wright, I say Floyd doesn't touch Kalule with a 10 foot pole.

    BTW, Kalule vs Winky Wright is an interesting Fantasy bout.....

    Hawk

    Exactly,and no shame in not being among that very top crop of fighters then.That's a helluva list of names.You could have made as much as a top 50 back then and kept a real nice level of quality as well.

    A kalule(or Bogs before him)would be every bit as well known as Kessler in this internet savvy day and age.Too big and risky while not being enough of a draw for a guy with the fightpicking history of PBF to move up and fight.

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