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Thread: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

  1. #91
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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    I'm pretty sure Pac would KO Mosely in less than 6 after seeing this. He was lost & befuddled with PBF in the face of a little speed, a few 1-2's & not being able to land his punches the way he wanted to. That kind of hesitation she showed would spell a violent KO at Pac's hands. He would get steamrolled.

    Pac would still have a very good chance against PBF because he doesn't wait for openings, he creates them & sometimes creates them when they shouldn't even be there.

    I'd love to see what Williams could do with PBF & vice versa. I would be much more impressed with a PBF win over William's than one over Pac. If would be nice for him to close out his career with a performance like the one he had over Corrales back in the day.

    Eh, in the end PBF will probably dig up Winky for his next fight.

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    Very good performance by Mayweather and one of the more entertaining displays of his. Even though I really wanted Sugar Shane to wind back the clock and win alas it was not to be. Mayweather was just too quick for the 38 year old Mosley. If Mosley had been 10 years younger I have no doubt it would have been a different fight. But Mayweather won and all credit to him, he beat a fighter many picked to beat him

    Having said that I was leeping around my room shadow boxing when Mosley hurt Mayweather in the 2nd round, if Shane had been 28 could he have stopped him? Maybe but we will never know but I think it will be a point that will now often be brought up when talking about Mayweathers career. Along with the point that if it had been a Tommy Hearns it very well may have been a crushing, quick lose for Pretty Boy Floyd.

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    PHOTOS: Floyd Mayweather vs. Shane Mosley

    PHOTOS: Floyd Mayweather vs. Shane Mosley

    Photo Gallery:
    http://www.ultravista.com/g2/main.php?g2_itemId=57961










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    Question to ask

    of those who have the fight taped:

    I only saw the fight live, on my computer on a stream, so I don't have a recording of it.

    But in the 2nd round when Mosley hurt and staggered Floyd twice, the second time, worse than the first and he tried to follow up and finish Mayweather unsuccessfully, the way I recall it, with about 30 sec or even more to go in the round, it seemed to me as though Shane either hit a wall or was grew frustrated with not being able to finish him man and was from that point on, doing NOTHING effectively.

    Live, it reminded me of Holyfield Bowe III when Evander dropped Riddick and could NOT follow up as he had nothing left. THis obvioulsy wasn't AS bad as Shane did follow up after first hurting Floyd and then hurt him worse a second time and then tried like crazy to get him out but could not, where as Evander had NOTHING left following the knockdown of Bowe. But at that min or 30 secs to go in the sec, when Shane was doing nothing and looking discouraged, Holy Bowe III was what came to mind.

    And in the third, SHane came out and did nothing.

    I recall Floyd having an EXCELLENT round in the third, but to me it was more about what Shane was NOT doing, whihc was NOTHING, than Floyd changing anything.

    It also got to the point where I was asking aloud: "Did Shane hurt his right hand?" Cause he ain't throwing the damned thing, the one weapon that was SO successful in the 2nd and nearly dropped Floyd.

    Is my recollection of this incorrect?

    Again, only saw it once and my memory may be off, but it seemed to me, SHane stopped doing what was successful, or more to the point, Could not sustain, what he was doing, as opposed to Floyd making a true change in HIS game plan.

    THoughts on my view on this?

    OTL? Too many Miller Lites?

    Let me know.

    Hawk

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    Re: Question to ask

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk5ins
    of those who have the fight taped:

    I only saw the fight live, on my computer on a stream, so I don't have a recording of it.

    But in the 2nd round when Mosley hurt and staggered Floyd twice, the second time, worse than the first and he tried to follow up and finish Mayweather unsuccessfully, the way I recall it, with about 30 sec or even more to go in the round, it seemed to me as though Shane either hit a wall or was grew frustrated with not being able to finish him man and was from that point on, doing NOTHING effectively.

    Live, it reminded me of Holyfield Bowe III when Evander dropped Riddick and could NOT follow up as he had nothing left. THis obvioulsy wasn't AS bad as Shane did follow up after first hurting Floyd and then hurt him worse a second time and then tried like crazy to get him out but could not, where as Evander had NOTHING left following the knockdown of Bowe. But at that min or 30 secs to go in the sec, when Shane was doing nothing and looking discouraged, Holy Bowe III was what came to mind.

    And in the third, SHane came out and did nothing.

    I recall Floyd having an EXCELLENT round in the third, but to me it was more about what Shane was NOT doing, whihc was NOTHING, than Floyd changing anything.

    It also got to the point where I was asking aloud: "Did Shane hurt his right hand?" Cause he ain't throwing the damned thing, the one weapon that was SO successful in the 2nd and nearly dropped Floyd.

    Is my recollection of this incorrect?

    Again, only saw it once and my memory may be off, but it seemed to me, SHane stopped doing what was successful, or more to the point, Could not sustain, what he was doing, as opposed to Floyd making a true change in HIS game plan.

    THoughts on my view on this?

    OTL? Too many Miller Lites?

    Let me know.

    Hawk

    No, that is correct. Mosley gassed out breaking the cardinal rule of trying too hard to take out your man when you hurt him, Shane didn't take his time and put combos together to the body and head, he went apeshit trying to land another right hand bomb.

    The amazing thing to me though was that Shane NEVER got a 2nd wind. That was it. His mouth was wide open the rest of the fight. Made me ponder if he'd balooned up in weight over the past 16 months and was drained from the weight loss. For a world class fighter to gas out that badly after two rounds of fighting and not even get a second wave of energy is very odd, especially as Mosley kept up a crazy work-rate in the Margarito fight. I know fighters will be more cautious vs a great counterer like Floyd but come on it's not like Floyd is a 147 lb Joe Louis.

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    Thanks Hags

    I didn't think I had Beer Goggles working Saturday night, but wanted to be sure.

    Hawk

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    Hawk,

    Shane hit a wall,but mayweather style IMOhad as much to do with Mosley's demise. By the end of the 2nd round Mayweather was backing Mosley up,& the way he came out the 3rd round, simply took everything away from Mosley.

    Hey I know I disagree with several on here on certain things,& this is not about pacman. Just can all look at a couple of things.

    1. It was maywrather consistently backing mosley up, even when he was not firing.
    2. Mayweather probably benefitted alot from Mosley's slowed reflexes. But in looking at ring generalship, how Mosley had no jab,only had the overhand right to keep Mayweather off him, I'm not so sure Mosley does much better when he was peak. Technique, style, etc
    3. Look closley the spacing,timing,& pace,simply had mosley jittery, uncomfortable, & really looking like he should not have been in there that night.
    4. Mayweather simply mauled Mosley.

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    Here is what frustrated me

    about the fight, specifically from the end of the 2nd on:

    SHane's right hand was working beautifully and it was landing AND hurting Floyd. Why Stop throwing it?

    Ok, Yes, Floyd has a killer defense and is elusive. But as mentioned here, Floyd was actually coming TO Molsey.

    ANd (agian to my recollection), it was not as though SHane was still throwing the right and simply missing with it..........He stoppped throwing the damned thing altogether.

    It seemed to me that he INDEED hit a wall, or as I was thinking at the time, that he had hurt his right, because he simply STOPPED doing what he was doing successfully.

    Floyd by being more aggressive (WHich I saw as him doing so becuase Shane was doing NOTHING), would make him and even MORE inviting target, and Shane did nothing whatsoever.

    I would have prefered to see SHane get stopped, while TRYING to win as opposed to NOT TRYING, so he could last the route.

    And with about 30 secs to go in the 2nd through the end of the bout, that's all I saw from Shane.

    Hawk

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    I agree with Hagler and Hawk 100% on all counts. That being said, I do have to admit that in spite of his childish behavior outside the ring, Floyd is certainly a professional in the ring and obviously trains very hard in the gym. He is the best in a very very weak age of boxing. (Quite possibly the worst ever.) I don't believe he is by any means an All Time Great. And his comments about being better than Sugar Ray Robinson are purely laughable. But in this weak era of boxing he is probably the best (although certainly not the most entertaining) fighter we have. And, although Mosley's age was obviously a big factor, he really dominated Sugar Shane on Saturday more than anyone else had previously. And although I feel his best wins (and only real solid wins against good fighters in their prime) are against Genero Hernandez and Chico Corrales, his body of work as a whole looks pretty good on paper. If he can bookend his carrer with a win over Pac, the history books (especially the ones written by people who didn't have to sit through so many of his boring performances) will look very favorably on his career.

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    "When men of near or equal skill meet the man with the superior will to win will win every time, unless the man's skill is so far above that of his opponent that his will is not tested"---Cus D'Amato

    This has always been my feeling on Floyd Mayweather. Hopefully Manny Pac will show us how much will and character PBF really has or has not.

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    Shane shut down because he was being made a monkey of. When every punch you're throwing is being countered it can do a lot of damage to your mentality. He essentially just shelled up for the rest of the fight once Floyd took to an aggressive counter-punching approach after being rocked. Floyd impressed me, even if Shane has clearly lost more than a few steps over the last decade. It's not as if he was thought to be a shot fighter going into the fight, albeit well past his prime. Still very effective.

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    Quote Originally Posted by Surf-Bat
    "When men of near or equal skill meet the man with the superior will to win will win every time, unless the man's skill is so far above that of his opponent that his will is not tested"---Cus D'Amato

    This has always been my feeling on Floyd Mayweather. Hopefully Manny Pac will show us how much will and character PBF really has or has not.
    You don't think he did just that on Saturday? Directly after being hurt worse than he'd ever been in his career he opted to press the fight and essentially gave Shane a beating the rest of the night. He was angered and embarassed, and made Shane pay. Had he adopted a Hector Camacho approach those flaws would've been evident for all to see. Clearly that wasn't the case. I dislike Floyd as a person, but he proved something to me on Saturday where his fighter's spirit is concerned.

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    Gato

    Re this statement:

    "Shane shut down because he was being made a monkey of."

    To me, it's Chicken or the Egg.

    Did Shane shut down becuase he was being dominated? Or did Floyd Dominate becuase Shane shut down?

    To me, on the one viewing, it seemed the latter.

    I recall nothing specific that Mayweather did late in the second to stem the tide and force Shane to shut down what he was doing. I simply saw Shane STOP, what he was doing effectively.

    And the third round, Shane came out with the "Don't just do something, stand there" mentality and threw NOTHING meaningful. Floyd, became aggressive in that round as Shane was doing NOTHING. I do not recall right hands from Shane MISSING and him becoming discouraged as he was being countered by Floyd. It seemed, agian on the one viewing, as though Shane shut down. And THEN Floyd came to him.

    I was willing to bet the farm Shane was going to say in the post fight interview that he hurt his right. Nothing else, other than being gassed (physically or even mentally), seemed logical as to why he simply....stopped.

    Will weigh in again after the replay on HBO later this week(end).

    Hawk
    Last edited by hawk5ins; 05-03-2010 at 04:43 PM.

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    I'm with you on this Hawk. Even in the 1st round, Shane looked stale, tired, low in energy, just old, exactly like your Holyfield analogy. Totally agree. Like Holy, he still had some pop, and he nailed and wobbled Floyd for the first time in his career. But like Holy-Bowe III, the follow-up was pathetic and showed that he just had nothing that night. No blazing combos, could not put anything together at all, mostly one or two at a time. He barely even attempted his vaunted body attack.

    That said, Floyd once again proved his condition, masterful defense, good balance, compact punches, blazing speed and reactions, and showed he could pull himself together after being nailed a good one that wobbled him. He is a very strong clincher too.

    I still don't like all his grabbing and putting his forearm in his opponent's face, but at least he didn't run. I think Bayless was the worst ref for Mosley in this fight because he allowed Floyd to grab, then would break them quickly and not allow Shane to work the inside, with utterly no warnings to Floyd, but warn Shane whenever he would try to work free or maul Floyd back to get out of the clinch, then Bayless would make sure both men took a full step back, making Shane work hard to get close again. Not fair, IMO.

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    This isn't the first time Shane shut down when things weren't going his way.
    So I believe PBF indeed shut him down & it's Shane who can't seem to figure a way out of that funk once he gets there - unless its someone like DLH who just fades later in fights...

    The 2 things PBF impressed me with in this performance.

    1 - I thought PBF just turned it up on & stopped taking his time with Shane after the 2nd round, not that Shane blew it (although he was slightly gassed & did not go for the close properly in the 2nd round).

    2 - PBF, despite rarely ever being hurt in his career, tied up Mosely like a champ when he was stunned. Lesser fighters in that position may have retreated to the ropes or wobbled around trying to avoid the following shots & ultimately been KOd.


    What PBF does is impressive & he is the best at it for sure.
    But, he fights just enough to stay OUT of a fight IMO, and I just can't get up for that style.

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    Looking at round 3, IMO Floyd came out directly after Shane. He switched styles and took it too mosley, directly.


    He was on tip of mosley, in a more direct manner than i can ever recall mosley finding himself in. Remember he is usually the aggressor, or trying to find a way to be a aggressor. Also, one of the key strategy's he used vs Margerito was he would back him up. Well Mosley was backing up, almost from the onset of the fight.

    On top of that, mayweather was making Mosley fight at a consistent defensive pace, he was tense, & very uncomfortable. Again that had everything to do with a combination of mosley slowed reflexes which I think would have allowed him to take advantage of opportunities that an aggressive Mayweather provided, & that he simply had/has no jab to manage the spacing issue between them and with out legs to move he pretty much had 1 option - right hand, which mayweather adjusted to and took away from him.

    A younger mosley makes this a much better fight, but with out a jab, he still IMO if faced with the version of Mayweather he saw last night, would still be fighting a defensive fight.

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    PBF wins this fight no matter what Mosely shows up IMO.

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    Two points: 1. After Shane hurt Floyd in the second if you watch him, when Floyd gets close it is actually Shane who is holding... Why hold the guy who you just staggered? Unless you are gassed by the minimal effort you just put forth. In my mind Shane shot his bolt and that was it. People will say that Mayweather made Shane look old but Shane won the first two rounds on my card, the second round by a mile and then did nothing. It wasnt like there was a point in the fight in which Mayweather dramatically got Shanes respect or obviously figured Shane out. Shane simply stopped doing what he did in the first two rounds and he stopped it at the end of the second round when he had his man in the most trouble. That says a lot more about Shane than it does about anything Floyd was doing to him.

    My second point is one I only just started thinking about. Shane was the champion, after having defeated Marg, while I know it wasnt for the championship, why was Shanes attitude from day one the attitude of an opponent? He asked for no rematch clause (people criticized Floyd for asking for one but all modern champs have a rematch clause) it was as if Shane wanted no part of Floyd if he lost. He also agreed to all of Floyd's demands, gloves, testing, etc. and even came into the ring first as an "opponent" and took a fraction of Floyd's gauranteed purse. I hate to say it but this all spells d-o-g to me. I now think there was a lot more to Floyd's talk of Shane needing a payday etc as motivation for this fight than Shanes overconfidence. Watch Shanes ring walk. Every other ringwalk he smiles ear to ear to, says hi to the fans, etc. This one he had his head down like he was going to the principles office for a spanking. He didnt warm up before the fight, etc etc. I know 20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing but it really all adds up to me as Shane going into this fight a loser and knowing it. I hate to say that because he has always been one of my favorite fighters but this performance/attitude combined with the steroids scandal (which regardless of his and Judd Bersteins press releases is a major black mark on him) has really left a bad taste in my mouth in regards to Mosely.

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    Quote Originally Posted by diggity
    PBF wins this fight no matter what Mosely shows up IMO.

    I disagree. The Mosley that beat ODLH in 2000 stops Floyd in the second round, maybe even the first. That Mosley was much more aggressive, not afraid to get hit (which this Mosley was, and that was the most shocking thing about this fight), and a great finisher, not to mention a much more well rounded fighter as opposed to a one dimensional head hunter.

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    Dig

    "This isn't the first time Shane shut down when things weren't going his way. So I believe PBF indeed shut him down & it's Shane who can't seem to figure a way out of that funk once he gets there -"

    I would agree, As we HAVE seen this with Shane before. But I simply can't pinpoint where things stopped going Shane's way that would cause the sudden change in his approach.

    If there were a moment late in the second in which Floyd either recovered and hit Shane with something that caused him to be hesitant or second guess continuing on with what was going so well for him, then I could say "Yeah. That was the point. That was what turned it around for Floyd."

    I just don't recall that. It was pretty sudden as well also. What Shane was doing simply stopped, in the round that he had done all the impressive work and damage in.

    THen in the 3rd, he (Mosley) did nothing and you saw Floyd starting to come to Shane. By rounds (3rd) end, Floyd was in his grill pressing the fight.

    I can't recall what it was that caused Shane to be hesitant and stop throwing the right.

    By all means, if there was a moment that I missed (and as much jumping up and down that I was doing in the second, it's very possible), that FORCED Shane or Caused Shane to cease doing what was so successful for him, I will openly recognize it. But that was why I asked the question.

    I'm not looking to be "right". I'm simply trying to see if there was something that caused Shane to alter what it was he was doing. To me, it looks as if he hit a wall or as I thought Sat night, that he injured the right that was doing all the damage.

    Without a copy of the fight, I'm only repeating what I THINK I saw unfold. Ultimately, I want to KNOW what it was.

    Trust me, I would rather KNOW I was Wrong, than THINK that I am Correct, about something.

    Hawk
    Last edited by hawk5ins; 05-03-2010 at 06:32 PM.

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    in responce to the 2nd rd floyd simply raised his left hand and got his timing down with his right. shane looked exhausted after the 3rd (looked a bit tired after the 2nd also)


    2nd rd as long as it lasts

    http://www.indavideo.hu/video/Shane_...yd_Mayweather/
    Last edited by jlupi; 05-03-2010 at 06:39 PM.

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    Jlupi

    And I would buy that in a second, except for the fact that you didn't all of sudden see Shane missing with rights.

    He Stopped throwing it all together.

    I'm trying to figure out what caused Shane to cease with what was working.

    Beating a horse here.

    I'll rewatch and tape the bout when HBO re-airs the bout.

    THen I can see for myself.

    Begining to sound like typical "stubborn Hawk" again.

    Hawk

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    Revisit how Floyd came out after mosley starting round 3. It's pretty evident floyd became much more aggressive.

    Not arguing that mosley was gassed, I can concur that point. But it's not only because of Mosley. Mayweather had a lot to do with him wearing down.

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    Shane couldn't close the deal in the 2nd & PBF didn't come into the 3rd round ready to just lay down for him. As a matter of fact, PBF stopped laying back & took control of the fight. That's where the fight was lost for Shane. Shane just wasn't comfortable enough to continue what he was doing. Call it nerves or whatever you want, PBF raised it a level and Shane could not match.

    Shane has always been a humble guy.
    In my mind, he liked/needed/enjoyed having to give himself that "extra edge" in his mind for whatever reason. Back in the BALCO days, Shane couldn't wait to tell people how much weight he was lifting in the gym. How much has Shane bragged about how much he could bench since then? Shane thought his dad was a problem & got rid of him from his corner. And to a degree maybe he was, but the apple does not fall far from the tree. They seem like 2, very laid back & nice, humble people who just to not have that little extra "umph" or confidence or ego whatever you call it to separate them from the real elite (in my humble opinion of course).

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    BB

    Was typing when you wrote you post and missed it.

    That was what I saw as well.

    Again, This didn't shift or change between rounds 2 and 3. It started over the last 30 seconds (or slightly earlier) of the 2nd round. The round in which Shane had everything going his way.

    Has YouTube got a copy up yet?

    Hawk

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    Quote Originally Posted by bodyblow
    I disagree. The Mosley that beat ODLH in 2000 stops Floyd in the second round, maybe even the first. That Mosley was much more aggressive, not afraid to get hit (which this Mosley was, and that was the most shocking thing about this fight), and a great finisher, not to mention a much more well rounded fighter as opposed to a one dimensional head hunter.
    I used to think this casually before the fight but after seeing what I saw, I'm not so sure anymore. In fact, I think a younger PBF may beat that SSM even more convincingly than the fight this weekend. I don't really see a trait that Shane has over PBF other than maybe aggression - aggression that PBF's defense would likely negate in my eyes. PBF is just an extremely smart, relaxed & defensively brilliant fighter. Not the most exciting guy to watch but a ridiculously tough package to beat.

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    Hell

    I actually wished that Shane CONTINUED to Head Hunt from the final 30 secs of the 2nd on.

    The ONE thing he did successful in the bout.......and he stopped doing that!

    Hawk

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    Quote Originally Posted by diggity
    I used to think this casually before the fight but after seeing what I saw, I'm not so sure anymore. In fact, I think a younger PBF may beat that SSM even more convincingly than the fight this weekend. I don't really see a trait that Shane has over PBF other than maybe aggression - aggression that PBF's defense would likely negate in my eyes. PBF is just an extremely smart, relaxed & defensively brilliant fighter. Not the most exciting guy to watch but a ridiculously tough package to beat.
    I agree. Why assume a younger and faster Floyd would even catch that shot? Floyd ain't in his athletic prime right now; he's just not faded badly yet.

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    Re: Mayweather-Mosely Results & Discussion 5/1/10

    Quote Originally Posted by bodyblow
    I disagree. The Mosley that beat ODLH in 2000 stops Floyd in the second round, maybe even the first.
    Get a hold of yourself.

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    Gato

    WHile I would not make the call for a prime Mosley to ko Floyd in the 1st or 2nd round, what I would say is that if it were a prime Mosley who had Mayweather in the condition or position that Floyd was in during the 2nd round, then I COULD envision a Prime Shane finishing the job.

    Or at the very least, dropping and continuing to lay the hurt on Floyd, so much so that any thoughts of a "reversal of fortune" would be out of the question.

    Prime Shane, continues on with what he began in the 2nd round. He doesn't cease the attack or get gassed. And Floyd doesn't get back into the bout.

    A Stoppage in that same round or shortly there after?

    Entirely possible and dare I say, very likely.

    Hawk

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