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Yeah, and Shane was complaining to the ref a lot too.
Shane did look much more jittery last night than usual. He was flinching like Jameel McCline. What was that all about?
Floyd looked bigger than Shane, which was a surprise to me. I wish we'd had unofficial HBO scales last night.
Jeez, that was a frustrating fight to watch.
Mosley looked like he had the perfect fight for Floyd. The jab started well, he was throwing the overhand right which landed and he was going to the body.
But he worked himself into such a state after round 2, that he did more bouncing and hand feinting and than any real fighting or boxing.
I don't see what Floys genius did? Mosley was sucking wind hard in the corner and throwing about 2 punches around, other than his pawing, range finder jab. SO frustrating to watch and you could tell Richardson was on the same page. He was trying to fire Mosley up, but even though his mind wanted to, his body just wouldn't let go.
Floyd would step onto the ropes, cover up for a second, and Mosley would just look at him.
Props to Floyd for dominating him and coming back and fighting after being hit (notice his hands raise and Floyd start to bang after he was wobbled?). The shoulder role was in trouble, but Mosley then neglected an overhand right for nearly the entire rest of the fight.
Jeez, thought we might get Mayweather in a fight then and really have to dig deep. Mosley should retire here I believe but doubt he will knowing how much he likes to fight. Though he does remind me of Holyfield a bit, in that they both can have a real off night and then turn up the very next fight. But unfortunately, mother time prooves that bad nights are the only route left and this will probably happen to Mosley also.
Mayweather V Pac HAS to happen. Nobody left for either of them to proove a thing. The division is cleaned out, 140 is really just a bunch of up and comers and 154 is crud, except for Williams who is probably way too big naturally for both these guys.
Mayweather showed how great he is at timing and anticipation, the best I've ever seen at it, and some great heart. Unfortunately, this was a shell of Mosley so the fight didn't proove anything else for me.
Last edited by The Welterweight Epitome; 05-02-2010 at 10:52 AM.
AS I get older and have more and more experience following this sport, the easier it gets to factor ... Shane is 38. Shane was coming of 18 months of inactivity. Shane had not fought and defeated a speed driven boxer in many years. This was not a hard one to predict. All this praise to Mayweather is O.K. to a point then it gets way over the top.
Some will disagree but I think even better of mayweather after last night. Yes mostly was a shot fighter, but I'm not so sure now that peak mosley would do better.
After mosley landed that big shot, you saw Mayweather changed and took complete control of the fight. He had Mosley backing up from the 2nd round. Reflexes and counters were IMO the one thing that possibly would be different, but Mayweather fought a aggressive style took everything away from Mosley and IMO that was the best we have seen Mayweather look.
Could it be Mayweather really held back until he needed to ........
How he could do better ? He'd have had the speed and stamina to finish what he started in round two ... prime for prime Mosley was a class above.Originally Posted by wpink
As I wrote yesterday, this fight emphasis's the sad state of boxing today. Between boxing fans being starved for action, the incessant hype & the fact that so many, especially younger fans, are total prisoners of the moment.
You couple that with a virulent hatred (not totally undeserved, he is a little prick) of Floyd that is so over the top, it virtually somehow catapulted Shane back to his prime in 2001. This warping of reality somehow turned a very pedestrian fight into the second coming of Leonard-Hearns or Chavez-Pea which anyone with an iota of common sense could see was absolutely ridiculous.
I predicted this fight would be as big a dud as Pac-Clottey & guess what?
It was...
If fans could open their eyes they would see that in Floyd we have today one of the most brilliant fighters of the last 30 years. Shane on the other hand hasn't been the same since his brutal beat down from Vernon Forest in '02.
The way to look at a fight is to be a little dispassionate. This is hard for boxing fans as boxing is such a passionate sport. But if you used logic there was no way a 38 year old fighter with a 16 month lay off & reflexes & stamina that were highly questionable was going to beat the best pure boxer on the planet.
Now I'm reading here that except for Floyd , Shane would be competitive with ANY welter today. Puh-Leeze ... Shane has shot his bolt. It's over for him.
Just accept the fact that your man lost & lost badly. It happens ... Making excuses & what if's is weak.
Lastly, this fight does nothing for Floyd's "legacy". He beat an old, shot, inactive fighter. So what? Just because it cost a lotta $$$ don't make it meaningful.
GorDoom
Bucket:
It could all be BS, but Floyd sounded open to a Sergio Martinez fight if Pac can't happen. What do you think of Floyd versus the current Middleweight champ? Not really much of a size difference between the two.
Not so sure about that. Mayweather got rocked several times in his career and has shown the ability to totally turn the fight around immediately afterwards. Yes Mosley was older, and clearly he would have been faster etc. However we have to accept the fact that Mayweather defensively shuts down his opponent when he figures them out, and in this case hen got pissed he got rocked and came right out after Mosley.
The guy has fought and beaten some dammmm good fighters, most of the time very decisively. We will have to hope he and PAC fight. If he whips PAC, then what?
Unfortunately that second round was just an aberration. PBF was taking his time to figure out his opponent as he always does & Shane capitalized. I'll give Mosely that he landed 2 of the best right hands on PBF, possibly ever, but it means nothing in the end.
One thing I did not think about going into this fight is how Mosely reacts when things are not going his way. In his fights with Forrest & Winky, Shane got hesitant, began to dance around nervously & punch aimlessly. He fell into much of the same trap here. His opponents in recent years were not challenging enough to frustrate him into falling into those habits. Other than maybe the first fight with Oscar, he has not had to dig deep and pull out a win based on some serious adjustments. So to imagine he would pull out such a fight against PBF like that was pretty unlikely. Oh well. We can always wish.
R. I believe Manny has had a little help going up in muscular weight in the past but not now at all. He is no monster and looks pretty clean with natural muscularity and no overt artificial size. 5'5" or 5'6" 140lbs, yet he sent terror in Mayweather's heart and PBF avoided him at his peak, who cares if he fights him now, he would not fight him when the real boxing public wanted it.
He has not been snagged by the specific tests done via the Nevada Commission post fight testing. I would submit to the knowledge of an expert as to what PED could be used in training, then eased off of and escape that 11th hour post fight scrutiny via urinalysis etc.
Mayweather's insistence for little Manny to have blood drawn everyday just to avoid fighting him is sooooo transparent a ruse it fooled no one believe me.
Clean up the sport my ass, just get Pac man away from me please so I can fight a bunch of guys I know I can beat, little guys, 40 year old guys, I don't care about legacy, just money. Fine, because there is no legacy.
He said he is the best of all time, better than Robinson, Ali, etc. Did anybody ever hear of Joey Giardello ducking anyone, Ali ducked no one, and Robinson came to knock you O.U.T.
He put him off while forcing Father Time and fate to weaken Manny just to avoid fighting him while Pac Man is on a hot winning streak. I mean really, it rings so hollow and is so clear an issue anyone can see he is ducking him.
He then fights Marquez and Shane, he always wants to be the bigger guy, or fight someone on the downslide. Run, run, run, box, run, slip and slide, jump back, zzzzzzzzzzzzzz, everytime.
Floyd found any reason to avoid him while he is HOT and Manny is so much smaller than him in total body size.
I love the Mayweather HBO 24-7 shows, great publicity all the time, great buildups, then it is always pathetic under cards, lousy boring fights, bad refereeing and fans seemingly always disappointed and starving for a good fight.
If he was a fighter he would fight Pac man now, and let Nevada test him after the fight, no more, no less. Lets draw blood everyday until the puncher can't even get it up in his dreams, yeah that s the ticket, lets drain the guy.
For the Money, money should fight Manny whether his nuts were pumped up with a truckload of Winstrol, Dianobol, Cialis or Spanish Flies and stop all the whining, then for ONCE fight a real fight like a man without all the running, jumping back, shoulder shrugs and acme rocket shoes on.
I caught the fight from the third round on. I saw a totally shot Mosley. No reflexes, bad balance, and he simply couldnt pull the trigger. He simply looked like an old man walking on sand.
It was sad to see the younger Mayweather smiling and talking trash while beating up on a fading former great. By the end of the fight I was just hoping that Mosley would finish the fight so that he could at least possibly finish his career on his feet.
Mosley has no business in the ring anymore and would have big issues fighting anyone in the top ten. I hope he collects his check and rides out.
As for Mayweather, the man is very talented but I am tired of him getting away with fighting guys who shouldnt be in the ring with him.
IMO this fight encapsulated Mosley's entire career. He started out early boxing, using his speed, movement and bodypunching to create opportunities. Then in the second round he hurt Floyd as bad as Ive ever seen him hurt and totally abandoned any gameplan just headhunting, showing no defense, and looking for a KO. He regressed as a fighter in this fight the exact same way he has after his run at LW. He simply thought he was something he wasnt, a huge puncher. He always got his KOs by solid bodypunching, speed, and movement. Against Floyd he just allowed himself to become a one dimensional fighter.
Oh, and as for Bayliss. Did anyone notice in the dressing room before the fight that Nazim complained to Bayliss that Floyd uses his elbow and forearm as a defensive measure to push guys off etc. Bayliss said if he sees it and it becomes blatant he would warn floyd and take points. Floyd did that all night long and Bayliss didnt say one word...
I think floyd made him (this old version anyway) a jittery, uncomfortable, one dimensional fighter. Walking him down, forcing him backwards, launching right leads, left hooks at will. Shutting Shane's offense completely down, while being the aggressor.
Not sure how much was due to age, and how much due to Mayweather having the the style to beat any version of Mosley.
Floyd has been buzzed very early in the fight the by Corley, Judah, and now Mosley. Pac needs to do the same and then end it, otherwise I can see Floyd figuring him out too.
Pac should agree to whatever asinine drug-testing demands Floyd wants but force Floyd to fight at 140. Cancel the fight and make Floyd pay ridiculous fines if he doesn't make weight.
Any of you guys still think that Molsey bothers Pacman?
Mosley looked damn old and slow in that fight. Floyd's strength
is underestimated.
Lets not forget that Cotto, was supposed to be the smaller guy against Mosley and was actually stronger than Mosley as well. I just dont buy this stuff about how strong Mosley is supposed to be, at least not without steroids. Cotto was physically stronger and harder hitting than Mosley, and at times faster and Pac handled him with ease.
That being said Im not sure Pac is the guy to put your faith into beating Mayweather. In my mind, if he can make 147, or if May will come up to 154, Paul Williams would be an absolute nightmare for Mayweather. A guy who throws a hundred punches a round, is durable, hits hard, and isnt afraid to get while firing back, with that reach of his and he can fight on the inside. I dont see Mayweather EVER beating Williams.
The thing that bothers me about some of these guys that fight Mayweather, particularly Mosley last night. Is that there are opportunities but you have to punch WITH Mayweather. If you wait and try to counter, like Mosley was doing you will get beaten unless you have a good jab and long reach. After the second round Mosley refused to punch with Mayweather and it cost him. Lets face it, Mayweather doesnt really sit down on his punches until he has someone hurt so the idea that Mosley was gunshy I think is an exageration. I just think Mosley was old, and combined with the layoff simply could not pull the trigger. It kind of reminded me of Tyson-Lewis when Tyson came out raging in the first round like the old Tyson, had Lewis looking like a deer in the headlights, and then shot his bolt and couldnt do anything else.
Also, as soon as I saw that Mosley wasnt warming up I knew exactly what was going on. He was afraid of burning energy. Some fighters shadow box or jump rope for several rounds to warm up before a fight. A guy who is old and comes out dry like that is conserving energy and we saw that by the third round, of a fairly slow fight, Mosley was sucking wind. I think its obvious now what the EPO he was taking was for. If he needed EPO for endurance seven years ago you can be damn sure he was going to be in trouble tonight.
Great post Bucket
Thank you Ron !
Bodyblow:
You nailed it. Amen...
Mayweather will never , ever mention the name Williams ... he can talk all the crap he wants but he will never fight this guy ...
Back to Floyd a second ... I do say he is a great fighter ... I do not say he is an all time great welterweight ... I'm hearing guys say they feel he was better than Napoles ... I say based on what performance ?
Even the pundits who suggested that it was ludicrous to give SSM a chance have to give ground for the scare that Mosley gave Mayweather in rd 2.
Most, if not all, had to be thinking that Mosley might just clean up PBF right then and there.
That was the frustrating thing re Mosley. With age, Fighter's deteriorate in different ways. Some suffer a reduction in attributes across the board but Mosley still had the necessary tools (chin, speed and power) to carry this off but he simply didn't have the gas to keep the engine running at a reasonable pace and performance quality.
Yes, at age 38 and inactive for 16 mths, it was reasonable to suspect that SSM would encounter stamina issues but his still impressive speed and power did get those right hands home in round 2.
I rewatched round 2 and even as Shane had Mayweather badly hurt, Mosley was already beginning to fall of the required pace and didn't clean up as he might've done several yrs back.
That first right hand caught PBF absolutely cold without a twitch of action on Floyd's part to get out of harm's way. Perhaps there's a little bit of slip in Floyd's skills - and, given the sometimes millimetre perfect defensive judgement Floyd employs, a little bit of slip might equate to a big disaster against the likes of Pac Man who wouldn't let him off the hook given the same instance of success that Shane achieved.
Not for one second do I buy PBF having "Figured" out SSM unless it refers to Floyd having "Figured" out, like the rest of us, that SSM was gassing badly shortly after his success in rd 2. Mosley simply wasn't punching so there was virtually nothing for Floyd to "Nut" out. Rather, Mayweather, was then able to take advantage of a guy who simply didn't have the energy to maintain what started out as a very sound and properly executed game plan.
With all that, still an excellent performance on PBF's part - and he did reveal a very good chin, survival instinct/skills and propensity to still engage even after being badly hurt. However, I can't help but believe that Manny Pac would've either KO'd or stopped that version of Mosley by the 8th or 9th rd.
It went as I predicted and it wasnt hard to see this. Mosely was too old to match up with Floyd at Floyds game. Floyd is one very good fighter for this era. I dont know that he could dominate welter in other eras such as the Griffith and Basilio era. But if you cant physically dominate this guy hes a problem. You only need to check out his body and his stamina to see he can hurt. To beat him you must take away his game and physically take his room to operate away and scare him into a defensive mode. Castillo did it the first time with body shots. Floyd ran the next time. Hes no fool.
Manny? I think and always did years ago on this board that Manny would defeat Floyd. But at this point I still believe Manny is scared of the test and Jr. is scared of Manny. Dont believe this is gonna happen.
Rock you always crack me up. You see EXACTLY to the heart of any situation.
Manny appears to be scared of the tests, and Floyd is scared of Manny.
PERFECT!
So Rocky, you anticipated Shane catching Floyd as he did in rd 2 and when that did in fact happen, you weren't one bit concerned that your prediction was in danger of being wrong, in any way, shape or form?
I still think Pac v PBF might happen. I think we saw a relatively more aggressive Mayweather in there against Mosley, all be it in the face of a virtual dead man walking in Mosley after rd 3. Perhaps Mayweather is looking toward a shift in his accent with a match against Pac in mind. A more go forward style. Rather than a pointedly evasive style - a style that Floyd might've now worked out would not necessarily ensure victory against Pac and ultimately see Mayweather eaten up by Pac man.
Against Mosley, it was probably good for Mayweather to find an answer to some degree as to how he would hold up and react to a heavy shot right on the button. Against Manny, Floyd has to know that this will likely happen and happen more than once or twice during the course of the fight.
Floyd still cracks me up. From his quotes to his outfits, for some reason I find him hilarious. Now ,all of a sudden, he fought "an over the hill" mosely. Marquez was too small, delahoya was also over the hill, hatton overhyped, gatti overmatched, wrong weight for corrales...etc...etc.
Yet before each fight, moselys to fast and strong, marquez will win because of the long lay off, hattons too physical, judahs too fast...etc..
Mayweather cherry picks opponents? And marciano didn't?
What happens when he beats pac man, oh, manny was too small.
Floyd may not be the best of all time, but he's damn entertaining and the best there is in the ring right now. Enjoy him before he retires for real.
Pd-99. Remember it was a counter punching style of JMM that twice gave Pac-man fits
Yeh, I agree with that wpink. Though I think Pac is much better now than he was even a couple of years back.
But, let's remember who he looked so good against, a boxing bag in Clottey, DLH who just stood there, Hatton who came forward and Cotto who when boxing, looked good, but isn't a good enough boxer to sustain that for an entire fight.
Mayweather poses immense problems for Pac, and Pac with his speed, southpaw stance, unorthadox punching angles and lateral movement, poses just as much of a problem for Mayweather. This fight is a complete pick-em and coin toss for me. Two extremelly odd styles, both the best at what they do, and the type of styles I have never seen matched before...............?
On another note: Floyd does crack me up also. Can't believe people hate him so much, when most of his junk talking is obviously just that. I can see how you would dislike Roger, who does come accross as a mean man and complete idiot, but half of what Floyd does is just one big joke and playing up to the cameras it seems. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone who knows him well, so can't get much of a real insight into his personality behind closed doors. At least he doesn't talk all 'gansta', if he was to speak like Kanye West or 50 cent or the like, that would get to me but he really is quite a well spoken young guy (I know I'm going to cop some flak for that comment, but you know what I mean, he can be rather articulate at times).
Last edited by The Welterweight Epitome; 05-03-2010 at 03:38 AM.
24x7 funniest comment I thought. "All those of you sitting at home on the couch watching this, take care of your own problems and don't worry about mine because I'm taking care of them."
If he was a jerk, I'd be the first to call him an arrogant pr**k. But I've seen him sign countless times for fans. I've seen him laughing and having fun. He doesn't put his opponents down, he comes to fight in peak condition, he doesn't resort to low blows. As far as I'm concerned, he's earned everything that he has. He's having fun which includes a stint at wrestlemania and dancing with the stars.
He doesnt put his opponents down? He isnt a jerk? This is a guy who beat his wife, broke a beer mug in the face of a waiter in LV, and is involved in a drive by shooting (anyone who thinks his friend decided to take Floyds rolls royce and shoot up the car of someone who insulted floyd on his own initiative without floyds input is nuts). "Im a dog, Im a gorilla, I talk the most shit!" I cant believe someone who watches boxing would say he doesnt put his opponents down. I hope you mean he doesnt knock them down, because that is certainly something Floyd does rarely in the ring...
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