black heavyweight contenders of the 1940's.

[greek1237]

I always hear of Louis,

But does any one have a some what list of the black contenders during Louis's rein???

I know Emler Ray is one, there seems to not be a lot on them. And most seem to be forgoten names.

[Hagler04]

off the top of the head,

Lee Q. Murray, Turkey Thompson, Jimmy Bivins, Larry Gains (although he was earlier), Hatchetman Sheppard, Leroy Haynes, Walcott

[Mr E]

Roscoe Toles, Clarence Henry, Lem Franklin, Elmer "Violent" Ray-- some real good fighters.

I think Ray, Jimmy Bivins, Turkey Thompson & Lee Q. Murray were the best of the bunch -- along w/ Louis, Walcott & Charles, obviously.

[kikibalt]

Clarence Henry was a very good fighter, but he turn pro in 1948, so he was not a top heavyweight in the 40s

Frank B.

[Roberto Aqui]

I know that Ray and Bivins were not considered any kind of heavy contenders until after Louis returned from the war. Bivins was a middle/LH for most of the 40s and Ray never gained any traction until everyone went off to war. At any rate, old man Louis did beat Bivins and probably would have KOed Ray who seemed to fall apart when everybody came home.

[Hagler04]

That's not true. Bivins was a top contender in the early 40s beating Maurilleo, Pastor, and Savold. When Louis was off in the army he was even named interim HW champion (although he's never really considered a champ) Ray was seen as a big danger in the mid 40s and beat both Walcott and Charles in close fights in his late 30s. By 1948 he was over the hill and retired soon afterwards.

[greek1237]

did not know Bivins was heavyweight weight champ interim during Louis's stay in the army.

[Roberto Aqui]

[[[That's not true. Bivins was a top contender in the early 40s beating Maurilleo, Pastor, and Savold.]]]
=======================

Perhaps I was over influenced by the fact that approx half of Bivin's bouts in the 40s he never weighed more than a couple of lbs over the LH limit and usually less. At any rate, when he became a full heavy in weight, Joe was in the Army, so there was nothing to contend for until Joe's return.

I would say that Bivins deserved a title shot over the other guys mentioned. He was past his prime by Rocky's time, but it seems like somewhere in there after the war he should have got a shot for LH or heavy.

[kikibalt]

Here is where Bivins was in 1948, this is a copy of a 1948 Knockout magazine

[greek1237]

nice pic. of Bivins.

How was race relations when ranking the fighters of Louis era. Was I heard Bivins beat a white fighter, and the white fighter got rank over Bivins.

[Elmer Ray]

here are my top 10 black heavyweight contenders of the 1940s

NOTE: i am leaving out jersey joe walcott and ezzard since they won titles




top 10 black heavyweight contenders of 1940s



1. Elmer "Violent" Ray 6'2 195lb heavyweight peak 1946


* herbert goldman rates elmer ray in his top 20 heavyweights of all time

- i rate elmer ray in my top 30 heavyweights of all time. ray is a vastly underated heavyweight. he not only had devastaing KO power, he also had solid boxing skills. ray fought out of a crouch bobbin/weavin . ray was in essence a puncher-swarmer a rare breed. Ray also beat both jersey joe walcott and ezzard charles when both were at/near there best.






2. Jimmy Bivins 5'11 187lb heavyweight peak 1945







3. Lee Q Murray 6' 210lb heavyweight peak 1946




4. Turkey Thompson 5'9 205lb heavyweight peak 1943





5. Lem Franklin 6'2 200lb heavyweight peak 1941






6. Roscoe Toles 6'2 205lb heayvweight peak 1942






7. Curtis "hatchetman" Sheppard 5'11 185lb heavyweight peak 1943






8. Harry Bobo 6'4 210lb heavyweight peak 1942







9. Buddy Walker 5'11 195lb heavyweight peak 1944

- anyone that has a pic that would be great





10. Eddie "dark spoiler" Blunt 6' 220lb heavyweight peak 1941

[greek1237]

nice. I think maybe one of these guys would had a shot at Louis, than the 2 Ton Toneys of the division.

[Elmer Ray]

dont underestimate tony galento, he was just as good as some of these guys. galento himself was a top contender and earned his title shot vs louis.


some of these guys would have been a dangerous legite fight for louis and would certianly be better fights than some of the challengers louis faced. but no fighter from that era would beat joe louis at the top of his game!

[kikibalt]

I love those pics.

Frank B.

[jim glen]

Ray didn't Roscoe Toles campaign for a while in Britain? I believe he was either a sparring partner or suggested sparring partner for Gilroy for Bert's 'clashes' against HW's Woodcock, Mills and Ken Shaw.

I'll see if I can dig it up, I also have a report for Gilroy to be the same to Joe Baski for his battles against Mills and Woodcock.

Jim.

[Kid Achilles]

I especially love the picture of Bivins. He looks like a very graceful mover and smooth puncher from that one photograph alone.