Muhammad Ali vrs Henry Cooper 1(1963)

[jim]

thanks dan,,and ditto to cap.

[TKO11]

A fighter who doesn't get off his stool and fight after the one minute rest between rounds is the loser---BY THE RULES OF BOXING,

Each round of fighting lasts 3 minutes. The break between rounds is exactly one minute (no longer).

Look it up sometime

Caps, you do realize (silly of me to even ask a genuine savant such as yourself) that when the referee halts the action (which, according to the rules of boxing he can do at his discretion), it overrides everything else.

You do realize this, right?

And if you re-read your inane posts on this thread, you'll see who's on the attack. Which if I have to point it out (which I clearly don't have to do to such a superior intellect as yourself) is you.

Everyone else is clearly incorrect.

And naf - strange how you appeared on this thread 15 minutes later, hmmmmm?

[hawk5ins]

And I haven't come accross any post from the Ali apologists, that are trying to make anyone forget the Knockdown. And I don't beleive that I have read anywhere that had this knockdown been in the middle of the round where any Ali apologist is CONVINCED Ali would definitely have mad it out of the round.

Ali was indeed hurt. That the knockdown happened at the end of the round was extremely fortunate for Ali. NO ONE denies this.

As for Ali being DQ because the min rest went longer than scheduled....As TKO pointed out, the Ref has total discretion here. At no point does anyone see the ref ordering Ali out of the corner becuase the bell had run for the round to start.

As far as the delay goes...It's been covered. No sense in repeating what others have said and what anyone in doubt can see for themselves on film.

Hawk

[brutu]

Muhammad Ali was still a work in progress when he fought Cooper the first time.
Still very young and developing his chrecter and he was not yet really "part of something bigger" as he was in later years which he was plugged in to,the power of the people mainly.
I always wondered if it was true that he wanted to have Angelo Dundee
cut his gloves off in between rounds when he was fighting Sonny Liston and whatever that stuff was got into his eyes and was stinging and he couldnt see and Liston was landing punches.
I do feel if only 60 seconds did elaspe between rounds in the first Cooper fight,that Ali would have danced away for a couple more rounds then come back to stop Cooper,however he would not have came out and sliced up Cooper dramatically like he did in the next round,which is part of Ali's ring legend now.

[hawk5ins]

"I do feel if only 60 seconds did elaspe between rounds in the first Cooper fight,that Ali would have danced away for a couple more rounds then come back to stop Cooper,however he would not have came out and sliced up Cooper dramatically like he did in the next round,which is part of Ali's ring legend now."

65 secs, however, can account for the "Slicing up of Cooper". Only 60 seconds, he probably only dances out the storm. Those extra 5 (max) seconds made a world of difference.

Hawk

[thumper3852]

Apparently there are others (Capslock) who see the real Ali and not the media hype job. As the years go on and younger people see Ali on video, there will be more and more who will question the "greatness" of Ali.

Things I wonder when I am supposed to be working:

I wonder what one has to do to get labeled an "Ali apologist".

I wonder when the rest of us will get to see the "real Ali" mentioned by
Mr. naf2003.

I wonder, when we do finally get to see the "real Ali", will we recognize him?

I wonder, if we haven't been seeing the "real Ali" all this time, who was this guy that we thought was the "real Ali"?

I wonder how the "Ali entourage" existed before Ali was champion, even before there was an Ali, and how they managed to fix a fight scenario against the British champion in Great Britain, who also happened to be fighting for the chance to meet Liston in a fight that, had he won, would possibly been held in Britain and promoted by the same people promoting Clay vs. Cooper...

I just wondered.

[brutu]

I seem to remember that Barney Nagler who was at ringside for that fight.
In his book ONLY THE RING WAS SQUARE.
Said there was a long delay,at least 3 minutes between rounds
if I remember correctly.
Furthermore its well known that the BBC junked/wiped its tapes in the early 1970s.(Did the fight air on BBC?)
There was a thread here at one time,were someone here claimed that the edited the fight films for the network here in America,
and when they got the fight film for Clay-Cooper,it was already
cut up,with a big splice between the knockdown,Clay returning to
his corner,and his coming out for the next round.
Sound sync was obviously off from the actual footage(the crowd roars before Cooper even lands the left hook).

[brutu]

Any you guys watch the ringside show on ESPN classic,with some of the various fights of Muhammad Ali's carrer,with Brian Kenny and guests Burt Sugar,George Chuvalo?
Well after they showed the first fight with Henry Cooper in Wembley stadium in London in 1963.
In that fight Cooper landed a TREMENDOUS
left hook on Ali's jaw as the fourth round was about to end.Ali got up but to me it looked like he may have been out on his feet and in his corner looked dazed and confussed.
Brian Kenny and his paid guests said the knock down wasnt as serious as it ws claimed to be,and that the story got bigger over the years,as to how much time Ali received to recover due to a split glove(that reportly got even more spliter during the rest between fourth and fifth round.
My qustion is,how much time didi really elaspe between the end of the fourth round and when the fifth round actually resumed?

Yeah ,I remember Brian Kenny saying to Bert Sugar on that show,about how much the amount of time that actually did elaspe between the fourth and fifth round has seemingly gotten longer and longer over the years by some boxing history "revisionist"
Except just maybe it did not occur to him that the so called "boxing history revisionists" may actually be people like Brian Kenny himself !

[brutu]

[[[I clearly remember watching the fight when it happened.]]]
=================

How could you do that when it was in England and Ali was far from an international star? Why on earth would Cooper, Dundee, and reporters claim there was a delay?

Like I note, the controversy could easily be laid to rest with a certified copy of the original bout, IF, IF, IF, the original exists.

The first live heavyweight championship fight to have be shown live via satellite(Early Bird II)
across the Atlantic was Ali-Liston II May 1965 live from Lewiston,Maine.
It was shown live at closed circuit theaters only here in America,but the Brits and Europeans got
to see it live on the telly(except they had to get up at 3:30 AM
to watch it).

*The first Liston-Clay heavyweight championship fight was also shown across the Atlantic to England,
via a satellite ,but it was not shown live, there was a 2 hour delay,due to the fact,first it had to be kinescoped then transfered to video then transmitted on a NASA satellite to England,
almost 2 hours after the fight actually happened.

[hawk5ins]

Bump