Bert Sugar's Top Ten Heavyweights...

[mike21]

he as far as tyson is concerned- well he was a great puncher to say the least- and i always respect your insights- but of course in his prime he was absolutly one of most excitnging fighters ever. i guess in push comes to shove as a fighter only his lack of heart and very importantly lack of great infighting ability got in the way- he had very short arms-nevertheless as sheer power is conconcerned- hes way up there. but i was shocked at his lack of subtle but important infighting ability in his prime- dmato was maybe- a little limited of his teaching of this. at any rate, if i fought tyson, my will and testament would be already written, the comments by cobb and ron l as far as shavers power are a matter of record- and important reading.in regards to shavers- no he was never a great fighter- still in my boof - because top tier fighters got thier by superior skills, will ,chin. and determination even a cracker like shavers needed to hit a bit more hard to garnish the admiration of say a louis or scheling, etc because that fiece power simply was less evident in the films of sahers agaimst some of these guys.anyhow, ouside of dempsey,louis,baer, liston and marciano- shaver, foreman, tyson, satterfield etc are way up there. now, for htm, i still do not really get the longd back theroy- example- if its in regards to koufax who studuied pithing and kienetics- he was able to both lwer and extend the center of gravity in his form thereby creating more momentem and more time to transfer his power from his legs- does a long backed fighter havve like a long backed, but also longarmed speed pither- have lower center of gravity as well as more momenum and slightly more TIME to generate to power from the legs and torso to the shoulders and deliver power even in short luois like distance- or am i off base here. please respond at your leisyre.

[PeteLeo]

????

Did I misspell "Don Dunphy"? Or "misspell"? (Can you actually mis-spell "misspell"?) PeteLeo.

[mike21]

excellant analysis- can anyman reaaley go against louis as the top power puncher ever--- i would say no--- it just seems physically impossible to hit with quite as much power as he did-- no man hit like that-- exept for dempsey; wheter he hit quite like louis is always debateable- but one thing is for certain- in the short ko punches thrown by both men only dempsey could ko guys with punches to the body agaist tough, smart, experienced well schooled fighters; if louis got his tail down lower against the crouchers such as godoy, galento he may have took them out earlyier with shots to the body- but i put it to all the readers- the best and shortest ko punch ever- and without any leverage- was a slow motion study of the lest hook that that koed firpo- and it was not the first or last such PURE power was demonstrated by dempsey. but look at it in slo motion. asw jack sharkey told me- "only dempsey could ko the best of guys in the chinch" simply "no man ever could finifh a man from pure power like dempsey". anyhow check it out- and only louis hit like dempsey in my opinion. anyhow i knew sharrkey well and would disvcuss others up to tyson- but he was the one guy who fought dempsey and louis- so in rating punchers- if louis is number one- and why not- as far as real power- that is short- then dempsey must be very close- or your missing a boat.thanks

[PeteLeo]

Dempsey's one-punch stoppage of Sharkey himself was phenominal, whether the Sailor had been fouled a moment earlier or not. Also the shot that destroyed Carpentier was almost invisible due to its tightness and speed. Georges looked like a man in continual free-fall during the count in that one. PeteLeo.

[mike21]

pete the short hook dempsey took care of sharkey was simialr ot the firpo ko- only the short hook that took out forpo was even shorter and so tight and CRAMPED its relley humorus in the power but the thought that someone would attempst to take someone out of theer in that manner. basically, pete, and to all of interest, watch that thing in slo or superslo motion- only until then was i impressed by it- after that- well its difficult to believe. anyhow, as far as power there is only a c-- hair difference betwenn the top guys. thanks -check it out in slo motion- hell i laughed out of disbelieve- believe me-its much more than worht the effort- youall will like it- it may well be the shortest and most cramped ko pung in history- its so short, its ridiulous, gotta go-and only louis hit so hard or harder,but never as short as this or some other dempsey shots.reaal;y check it out,

[wildhawke11]

HeGrant
No problem it was my mistake then. As you may have noted i have deleted that previous post i made. Just like to mention that at 66 years age, out of shape and only 5ft 6ins tall just as well i never met your friend.
Cheers and Sorry
Danny

[HEGrant]

The shots Louis used to take out Max Baer were some of the fastest, most power punches I ever saw thrown in a single combination that all hit and were effective....they were actual beautiful (excepts perhaps for Max) ...

Let's not forget Dempsey's seconfd fight with Brennan where he comes from behind to flatten Brennan woth a two punch KO...brutal stuff...Dempsey's single hook KO of Sharkey was a definative statement on his one punch power...talk about a one punch KO...in a fight where he was hanging tough but really behind, past his prime, in a fight where his legs were shot, in a fight where he was talking a lot of punishment, he blasts out a prime Sharkey with one shot...that is one punch power...especially when you consider Louis stopped a much older Sharkey eight years or so later and had him on the floor five times or so but did not stop him with one shot...

However...if you buy Primo's one shot KO as real ...let's ask the power specialist (Mr. P.W.) on that one ....

[mike21]

he- those three hooks louis kd baer were beatiful- except for max. when you get a chance check out the firpo ko of but in very slow motion- in real slo- its a bit to quick to see just how cramped it was and its effects- you will enjoy. anyhow- have a good day,thanks.

[HEGrant]

I'm sure Dempsey threw dynamite, it is just so hard to see it on the films I have seen. The same with Carpienter and even Brennan. I get frustrated trying my best to catch them through so motion. I just think frames are missing from the films and the speeds are messed up. It's too bad.

[Kid Achilles]

Louis's KO of Baer may be the most brutal demolition of a man with an iron chin I can recall. Baer was a hulking brute too, such a massive frame that his 15" biceps (same as Louis's arm size) looked like scrawny sticks compared to his torso. He had a head like, well like a bear. Just a naturally huge person. In Africa Screams (the Abbot and Costello flick) he looks even bigger and stronger in frame than his 6'6" brother. In that movie he must be 230-250 lbs, definitely not in fighting shape, but you get the feeling watching him onscreen, especially with the added mass, that he could crack open a human skull with his right fist.

Baer was a complete physical freak and like Dempsey once said of Willard "You don't fight a guy like that, you box him". Well Louis *fought* him and kicked his ass too.

Louis had the kind of power that no chin could stand up to. If you took flush shots from that man you could not last, I don't care who you were.

[PeteLeo]

My favorite line from AFRICA SCREAMS comes when Max and Buddy are engaged in yet another squabble (they fought with one another throughout the flick), and an enraged Max yells at his brother, "I'll mess you up worse than Louis ever did!" PeteLeo.

[HEGrant]

P.W., a very funny reference. Have to look that one up...

I read a very interesting account of the M. Baer/Galento fight in a newspaper the day after...it refered to Max as an all time great front runner...I found it very interesting especially considering how he chose to bow out of the Louis fight rather than take the final crushing blows that would have followed anyway...

Louis refered to that fight as his finest night...he said that he never punched as fast again...I fould that interesting , how a fighter could feel faster on some nights that other when they were refering to their prime years...

[Roberto Aqui]

[[[[how a fighter could feel faster on some nights that other when they were refering to their prime years...]]]]
=======================================

Top athletic contests usually come down to fine differences that athletes are aware of. That's why they often look unbeatable and invincible one day, and come the next contest may look sluggish and uncoordinated. It's a good day-bad day scenario we all go through. Of course there are those special magic moments when time stands still for their manipulations in another plane of being from their peers.

[PeteLeo]

Okay, right at the git-go, I'll admit that this was probably an Internet hoax, but back about seven years or so ago, a story was making the rounds that a late nineteenth century heavyweight out of Australia was such a hellacious hitter that he had won a dozen straight bouts by one-round KO and, in that span, had killed seven of his opponents. Supposedly Fitzsimmons flatly refused to get into the ring with him (which, if all of this is remotely related to reality, was a damned smart way to look at it: if a monster had killed even one guy in the ring, I'd be quite wary of him, and if he'd killed seven, I think even I would have caught on to the fact that this was not a person to engage in fisticuffs).
Naturally, extensive searching turned up absolutely no data about this alleged Godzilla-esque puncher. PeteLeo.

[mike21]

as far as dempseys comments concerning marciano, or most fighters, he was usually overgenerous of his praise at time they are fighting;dending on who they are talking to - when anyman is asked litterrally 24 times a day the same question, as dempsey was in his resturant, some times he just says things off the cuff and not seriuos-but when he lost the computer fight to marciano- he seriosly thought of sueing woroner. he thought rocky was a great puncher- but not the equal of himselk-period---- he as a puncher i thought marciano was a great- but it with a question mark- your analsis i thought was excellant- a great but overachieving fighter. the best i ever saw of marciano and walcott was the night they collied- sinde then marciano never attaind such brillance- i have definate questions of his greatness and at times his power. thanks

[HEGrant]

Dempsey also said publically , endlessly, that Tunney could have gotten up and won without the long count. Do you honestly beileve he always felt that way, day in and day out ? I don't.

[mike21]

mr.graant-nope.you know how it is. thanks- marciano gets too many kudos for being white.thanks imo.