Top 10 Greatest Boxing Trainers of all time

[sr71ko]

Boxing history has been full of a lot of good trainers.... but who is the greatest? Or may be a better question.... rank the top 10 of all time? Jack Blackburn, Gil Clancy, Ray Arcel, Angelo Dundee, Teddy Atlas, Cus Damato, Eddie Futch, or current gurus like Freddie Roach or Manny Steward?

[sr71ko]

I underestimated just how hard it is come up with the top 10. I have been doing some deep thinking and I could only come up with may be top 5. My criteria was kind of based on the body work and if I were a fighter who would I want to train me.

1. Eddie Futch. Why? Eddie Futch was a wealth of boxing knowledge. Sparred with Joe Louis, and was a strategic master. His work with Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Larry Holmes, Alexis Arguello, Riddick Bowe, and others. Is it luck that the 1st 2 guys to defeat Ali were trained by him?

2. Ray Arcel. Another old school boxing yoda. Had guys ranging from Ezzard Charles to Roberto Duran. How good was Ray Arcel? Who did Eddie Futch hire to co-train Larry Holmes when he fought Gerry Cooney? Ray Arcel.

3. Gil Glancy. The late Glancy was a true teacher of the boxing arts. May be best known for training Emile Griffith. Did some work with Quarry and Cooney. I think Gil had a Masters degree in Education or something like that. Real smart both in and out of the ring. A good story teller too. Did excellent work as a ring commentator back in the day on CBS Sports.

4. Angelo Dundee. Perhaps the last of the old school trainers left. Trained Ali, SRL, George Foreman. The real value of Angelo is does Ali beat Cooper in Ali-Cooper 1 or Ali-Liston 1 without Angelo? Same could be said with Sugar Ray Leonard. "You are blowing it son." In Leonard-Hearns 1 was the turning point of the fight. Does SRL beat Hearns or Hagler without Dundee? Leonard's record was so-so without Angelo. Angelo still quick as a whip. Angelo also did some work with Rocky Marciano or I have been told so.

5. Manny Steward. I admit in the past I kind of thought that Manny was overrated. His formula seemed to be try and find a puncher and greatly improve his jab or find a tall fighter and have him master the art of fighting tall. But Aaron Pryor, Tommy Hearns, Milt. McCroy, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, and currently Wlad Klit. Manny has greatly improved the very flawed fighter Wlad Klit. These are my top 5. Agree or disagree?

Oh yeah honorable mention:

Jack Blackburn because he molded a raw Joe Louis and turned him into one of the greatest fighting machines of all time. Teddy Atlas/Cus Damato: These guys mastered the art of the mental aspect of the sport. Teddy is perhaps more abrassive, but Mike Tyson, Michael Moorer, and others are some of his best works. Cus was Tyson's 1st mentor and got the most out of Floyd Patterson. These 2 are kind of underrated.

[dongee]

This is a real tough nut to crack, and for various reasons. I have not seen the name of one in particular that I had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with some 60 years ago and who might have been a major force nowadays.

That would be Whitey Ekwert, who along with Frank Churchill and Joe Waterman nurtured the Filipino boxers that graced the rings in America from about 1918. Despite the language barrier Whitey trained the likes of the Flores brothers, Elino an Irineo two of Churchill's early proteges and continued as chief trainer for Frank's great stable of Islanders in the United States (Cabanella, Villa, Sencio, Sarmiento)

When Churchill left the fight game early in the 1930s Ekwert took over as trainer of Mexico's Baby Arizmendi, under manager Cal Working.
It was Cal who introduced me to Whitey at the Legion Stadium in Hollywood where he visited us occasionally on a break from his duties as trainer for the film stars at Universal Studios...far removed from organized boxing.

hap

[sr71ko]

Thanks dongee. I have never heard of Whitey Ekwert, but you have me interested in finding out more information about Whitey Ekwert. Sounds very interesting. You also reminded me of another Whitey who was a good/great trainer..... Whitey Berstein. I think he trained Rocky Graziano and a lot of others. If I had to do it over again, I would have said the top 5 trainers of the last 100 years or top 5 since 1960. Lots of good trainers back in the day, not so much now.

[dongee]

Are you thiking of Whitey Bimstine?.....(not sure about the spelling) He too, was highly visible many years ago in the East, as was Sam Buxbaum in the Midwest.

regards

hap

[sr71ko]

Yes, I think that is the Whitey that I was talking about.

[jim glen]

certainly not the greatest trainer in boxings illustrious history;

but my ol' grandad deserves a shout as after retiring from the ring and his own "unheralded" career he went on too Coach & Train 3 of the greatest fighters Scotland has ever produced in Cowboy McCormack - Top 10 MW, Chic Calderwood - Top 10 L-HW, Walter McGowan - World Fly-W Champion and even the little Irish Bantam during his tenor in Glasgow, Johnny Caldwell, also a World Champion, and many lesser lights.

not a bad legacy, plus his own distinguished career, Bert Gilroy has served Scottish & British boxing fabulously, yet still gets overlooked and forgotten - man you'd think he killed Freddie Mills or something!

[phlboxarc]

With all the top fighters that came out of Philly they must have had some great trainers : Jimmy Wilson who trained all of Blinky Palermo's stable; Jack Brady; Jimmy Coster; Quinzell McCall; Joe Polino; Joe Gramby; Jack Blackburn; Georgie Benton; Adolph Ritacco; Jimmy Arthur and many more.
Chicago had Izzy Kline; Johnny Coulon; etc.
Whitey Esneault from New Orleans. Joe Stanley, Harry Gordon and legions of others from Los Angeles.
New York : Whitey Bimstein; Freddy Brown; Jimmy DeForest; Charley Goldman; Freddie Fierro, Nick + Dan Florio; Salem-Crescent's Pop Miller; Lenny DeJesus and countless other top notchers. Tommy Parks in Jersey.
Every great boxing city all over the world had great + successful trainers.

[dongee]

Lordy, how could I have forgotten all those names, Chuck...I grew up reading about them. Along with Jimmy DeForest there was Gus Wilson, who operated a huge training camp in New York that even bad fishing and canoing.

Gus made his mark as trainer for Georges Carpentier and later for Jack Dempsey. On the west coast he operated a conditioning center in Hollywood with Terry Hunt. Though handling dozens of good fighters, Gus only managed one world champion, briefly, Harold Dade, a bantamweight.
Harry Gordon and Philly Joe Stanley were prominent in the LA area as eternal corner men at the Olympic where they were known as the Weber and Fields of boxing.
Great choices, thanks Mr. Hasson.

hap

[beaujack]

Who can truly tell who were the greatest trainers of all-time ? But when I would visit Stillman's gym in the 1940s, I would see the likes of Whitey Bimstein, Ray Arcel, Charley Goldman, Freddie Brown, Chickie Ferrera, and other top trainers plying their trade every day. This bunch compares favorably with any great group of trainers, I believe...

[Olivares]

1. Ray Arcel - Trained more world champions than anyone else and left the sport in 1955 following being attacked, and didn't return until 1972.

2. Whitey Bimstein - right up there with Arcel

3. Charley Goldman

4. Eddie Futch

5. Chickie Ferrara

[Michael Frank]

Hard to believe that Dundee "trained" any of his champions to be champions. When you start with established amateur stars such as Ali and Leonard, for example, who exactly needed whom, more, in those relationships?

Did Dundee cut the glove in Ali-Cooper 1? No, according to experts; the time between rounds was exactly 1 minute, not any more as Dundee would have us all believe. And cheating shouldn't get him a spot on any list, had he indeed done it, anyway. Did a great fighter like Ray Leonard need Dundee to tell him he was blowing it vs. Hearns #1? I hardly think so; Leonard was one of the greatest at knowing what he needed to do, and when, and in judging the ebb and flow of a fight. Did Ali need Dundee to mess with the ropes before the Foreman fight? I sincerely doubt it. I am quite sure Dundee learned more from Ali and Leonard than they ever learned from him. At best, Dundee knew how to match fighters on the way up. But, is that even difficult??

He also made numerous really dopey remarks when commentating on fights on CBS, making me question his prowess. I think Dundee is HIGHLY over-rated and knew FAR less about training a fighter than did an Eddie Futch, Cus D'Amato, Arcel, and some of the others named above. Dundee wouldn't make my top 20.

[KOJOE90]

"Your blowing it son"

This Dundee quote has gone down in history as a great piece of corner work, sorry no offence to the late Dundee but I just don't see it.

Almost every Leonard fan at ringside and the millions watching on TV were saying/thinking the same thing, this does not make them (and I include myself in this) great Boxing trainers.

[Michael Frank]

"Your blowing it son"

This Dundee quote has gone down in history as a great piece of corner work, sorry no offence to the late Dundee but I just don't see it.

Almost every Leonard fan at ringside and the millions watching on TV were saying/thinking the same thing, this does not make them (and I include myself in this) great Boxing trainers.

Agree with every word.

I'd like to get Leonard under truth serum and ask him, "Ray, how much did that Dundee remark help you to win that fight?" Actually, I totally doubt that Leonard would lie when not under truth serum, so as to make Dundee look like some master whose great inspiration made Leonard charge off to victory. A victory he otherwise wouldn't achieve. Sorry, I'm not believing it for a moment.

[JeffR]

I think a major reason that Dundee's reputation was so great was due to Howard Cosell's years of hyping him as a boxing genius. Of course most of the reason for that stemmed from the fact that Dundee trained Cosell's darlings, Ali and Leonard.

[Michael Frank]

Yeah Jeff, while I am a fan of Cosell's, he did often say on boxing broadcasts how "shrewd" Dundee was.

Always "shrewd."

Oh, and "diminutive." (!)

[KOJOE90]

Whilst on the topic of Boxing trainers a new 'fashion' over the last few years of the MC introducing the trainers as well as the Boxers really needs to stop.

[jim glen]

certainly not the greatest trainer in boxings illustrious history;

but my ol' grandad deserves a shout as after retiring from the ring and his own "unheralded" career he went on too Coach & Train 3 of the greatest fighters Scotland has ever produced in Cowboy McCormack - Top 10 MW, Chic Calderwood - Top 10 L-HW, Walter McGowan - World Fly-W Champion and even the little Irish Bantam during his tenor in Glasgow, Johnny Caldwell, also a World Champion, and many lesser lights.

not a bad legacy, plus his own distinguished career, Bert Gilroy has served Scottish & British boxing fabulously, yet still gets overlooked and forgotten - man you'd think he killed Freddie Mills or something!

here's one of McGowan's world title fights against Burruni, the Big Bald guy in McGowan's corner is Gilroy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZBEv...ure=plpp_video

it's nice to see, though I'd still rather find footage of his own career, enjoy!

[theironbar]

I did not know that Jim -- amazing stuff from your Granddfather! I've always had a soft spot for Walter McGowan (who I understand is doing very poorly now) and the late Johnny Caldwell!