Wlad-Haye, July 2nd

[Petey]

Frazier- Lil klit? Might be competitive. All depends on how Marvis moves coming in...

Oh, JOE Frazier? Yeah, right.

Joe comes in bobbing weaving ducking. Wlad paws with his jabs and moves his right three feet over Joe's head...Joe springs from his bob/weave with a left hook flush on Vlad's jaw...and DOWN GOES LIL KLIT! Gamely, a stunned and bewildered Wlad gets up, where he is promptly overwhelmed and slaughtered in very quick but dramatic fashion.

All this happens pretty much as soon as Joe warms up and decides it should happen.

[mrbig1]

Love him or hate him. Wlad is the HW champion and has fought all comers.

[hagler04]

Love him or hate him. Wlad is the HW champion and has fought all comers.

The above is arguable

[Theo Netherland]

Expected Liston-Williams and got, well...Klitschko-Haye.

Lucky for you there is talk of a rematch!

[doomeddisciple]

Ron hit the point that I find most disapointing about both brothers really.

Where is the AGRESSION?

They're both big, they have power and can come forward behind a pole axe jab on their smaller men. Wlad has the athleticism to cut off a ring and put a more agressive game plan forward.

Lennox was oft derided for a safety first jab heavy style, he seems like prime Tyson in comparison to the Wlad of Ibragimov, Haye and the rest of the yawn worthy heavies.

I am just getting more and more jaded by the HW's as the years roll by.

[rocky111]

Ron and others hit it on the head. Haye disgraced himself. Dempsey he aint. Wlad should be the greatest heavy in history. He has the body and the qualities. But he just wont come out and take the chances. He should be blasting out Haye. Granted its hard to nail a guy who is athletic and runs. Liston couldnt get Machen for example. But damm go for it. Haye has his hands down and is cornered and what happens? Nothing. It was hard to watch.
Wlad is like Tommy Hearns in that he has the talent but no chin. Hearns though came to shoot it out and sometimes he lost. Wlad does not want to lose again and his style wont let him unless a Dempsey comes along. After that is said Wlad acts the part of champion and is a credit to the sport. He is in shape and has gotton better.
Roy JOnes is a jerk for his part in obviously jealous and hating the Klits. Remember after the Brewster one bout he said Wlad should retire and hes went as far as he can go. What a jerk. He needs to look in the mirror.
To my British brothers (I have always admired the courage and heart of the brave Brit fighters and have commented on it on the board many times) of course we have the same jerks here. Its a disgrace and a statement on the girlish unmanly behavior that is destroying england as well as the states in many ways. Take the beautiful "God Save Our Queen" a anthem that has sentso many braves into battle. They pick some girl to sing it and jazz it up while the Ukes send up a big manly looking guy with a deep bass voice to blast out their anthem and make a statement. I thought to myself the fights won right here. Its the same here Mates. The culture is getting weak and jaded.

[Dan Gunter]

[QUOTE=rocky111;166017 Wlad does not want to lose again and his style wont let him unless a Dempsey comes along.[/QUOTE]
With all due respect, Wlad lost to Lamon Brewster. I actually liked Brewster. But I never considered Brewster to be the second coming of Dempsey.

[Off The River]

I thinkk Wlad fights a measured pace in the manner that he does so he doesn't gas himself out. Not only is his chin weak, he has also had stamina issues in the past. He punched hiself out against Brewster and Outiry. I think that he doens't go for broke during the fight, so he can go the full distance.

Like him or hate him --I'm indifferent-- he is a proven winner and has the best strategy for a fighter of his calibre and abilities.

I only got through the first half of the fight, but what I did see in the part of Haye, was a guy who would not fight his way in. He just leapt in for that one big Hail'Mary shot and never put his punches together.

[prototypeofamodernmadman]

Thank god hagler and crold arent judges, throwing wild shots THAT MISS by a mile during the last 5 seconds of a round should not give the dirty bum trying to steal a round in cowardly fashion the round, Haye debatably won 1 round,

My first reaction after this was that Haye should take his £15 mil and get lost, with the talk of a rematch now, maybe it isn't such a bad idea, there isn't anyone else for little Klit to fight, of course Haye should take a much lower purse, maybe that will motivate him to actually fight, must be hard to get motivated when you have an insane amount of cash guaranteed,

Another scenario I can see is Vitali trying to pressure Haye into a fight, Haye said he wanted both brothers so he should be forced into the ring with Vitali,

What do you guys think about a rematch? Do you feel that either fighter would do anything differently? If Haye chooses to fight again and not against a Klitschko who would be a good matchup?

[KOJOE90]

Wlads management have said no to a rematch but yes to the possibility of a Haye V Vitali Klitschko fight. This of course depend on wether Haye stands by his October retirement deadline.

[Todd]

There will be zero demand for a rematch.

Despite the chiseled bodies, they both fought like two fat fucks. What a waste of everyone's time.

[Crold1]

Thank god hagler and crold arent judges, throwing wild shots THAT MISS by a mile during the last 5 seconds of a round should not give the dirty bum trying to steal a round in cowardly fashion the round, Haye debatably won 1 round,

My first reaction after this was that Haye should take his £15 mil and get lost, with the talk of a rematch now, maybe it isn't such a bad idea, there isn't anyone else for little Klit to fight, of course Haye should take a much lower purse, maybe that will motivate him to actually fight, must be hard to get motivated when you have an insane amount of cash guaranteed,

Another scenario I can see is Vitali trying to pressure Haye into a fight, Haye said he wanted both brothers so he should be forced into the ring with Vitali,

What do you guys think about a rematch? Do you feel that either fighter would do anything differently? If Haye chooses to fight again and not against a Klitschko who would be a good matchup?

LOL...We had the right guy winning (me at 115-111) and the notion that Klitschko was doing much more than hitting the air around Haye for large tracks of time is laughable. Haye ran some in his Sultan Dirrell ass of a performance. He also stood right in front of Wlad a lot and just slipped jabs and rights. Haye actually averaged about a half a power connect more per round. Both, together, averaged less than 6 per round. That's hot garbage and they both share some fault, though I fault Haye more because the onus was on him to actually try to upset the boring, typical, half scared fight plan of the champ. Almost every punch Wlad landed was a jab in the fight and most of those in the early going were touching. Neither guy landed much of anything for most of the fight. About the only thing I got right in a bad pre-fight pick was that if Haye moves towards Wlad's power hand, Wlad wouldn't be able to land it. He didn't until Haye started to stand more.

It sucked. I don't want to see a rematch. Haye-Vitali? Maybe.

[HE Grant]

Rocky he has a weak chin and he knows it .. if he takes risks he exposes it. No one knows it better than him ... this is exactly why he fights the way he fights. There is no mystery to it ...

[hagler04]

LOL...We had the right guy winning (me at 115-111) and the notion that Klitschko was doing much more than hitting the air around Haye for large tracks of time is laughable. Haye ran some in his Sultan Dirrell ass of a performance. He also stood right in front of Wlad a lot and just slipped jabs and rights. Haye actually averaged about a half a power connect more per round. Both, together, averaged less than 6 per round. That's hot garbage and they both share some fault, though I fault Haye more because the onus was on him to actually try to upset the boring, typical, half scared fight plan of the champ. Almost every punch Wlad landed was a jab in the fight and most of those in the early going were touching. Neither guy landed much of anything for most of the fight. About the only thing I got right in a bad pre-fight pick was that if Haye moves towards Wlad's power hand, Wlad wouldn't be able to land it. He didn't until Haye started to stand more.

It sucked. I don't want to see a rematch. Haye-Vitali? Maybe.

Exacto brother. Both guys were completly ineffectual. I keep hearing how Haye 'ran' but his lateral movement was pedestrian and he spent much of the fight standing flat-footed with his back to the ropes . . I think Wladimir must have been waiting for the postcard inviting him to throw a double-jab.
Larry Holmes-Leroy Jones, Sonny Liston-Eddie Machen (and Machen was 3 times the fighter Haye is) . .that was a great display of a left jab. This was a great display of timidity.

[KOJOE90]

Interview with Haye from today from Sky Sports.com it's worth a read!!

Haye: I was all talk


David Haye conceded he had failed to back up his big pre-fight boasts after surrendering his WBA heavyweight title to Wladimir Klitschko in Hamburg on Saturday.

Klitschko dominated the 12 rounds to earn a unanimous decision and add Haye's belt to the IBF and WBO straps he already owned.

Haye was hampered by a broken little toe suffered in training three weeks before the fight but said the physical pain was small in comparison to the mental side of defeat.

"It is my ego and pride that is hurting more than anything else," Haye said when he dropped into the Sky Sports News HD studio on Monday.

"You can live with the physical pain but it is the emotional pain that cuts deepest.

"You know what I'm like before the fight, I give it all the big mouth.

"I talk the talk and normally I walk the walk. On Saturday night I didn't walk the walk and I'm gutted about that.

"I feel like I've let a lot of people down. I feel like I've let myself, family, everybody down."

Haye felt his broken toe was not the decisive factor in his defeat.

"It's not an excuse for the result of the fight," he said. "The result happened because he landed more punches than I did, the judges saw it that way and he won the fight on points.

"I do believe I wasn't at my best and, had I not injured myself, I may have been able to spring a little faster.

"Maybe I'd have been able to close the range. There were shots that I could see that I usually land that I wasn't able to.

"Whether it (the broken toe) made a difference or not? I don't know. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. Who knows? We'll never know. The only way to find out is to fight him again with it healed. That's a long shot."

The Klitschko camp have already played down the idea of a rematch but Haye is keen to avenge only the second loss of his 27-fight professional career - and would even be willing to change his long-held plan to retire on his 31st birthday.

"I've said it since I'm 10. I want to retire when I cease being 30 - and I cease being 30 on October 13," he noted.

"I've said it throughout my whole career but now it's round the corner, just over three months away.

"I'm hoping they (Klitschko camp) have a change of heart. They have had a change of heart in the past in negotiations.

"I'd love the opportunity to challenge Wladimir again for his titles that he rightly deserves to have."

"They said this fight would never happen under the terms that we actually fought under.

"The fight happened. The reason why? Because it made money. In boxing they say: 'if it makes dollars it makes sense'.

"If Wladimir knows he can generate more by fighting me than anyone else, fingers crossed he comes back."


Asked about a rematch with Klitschko beyond his 31st birthday, Haye added: "I'd have to seriously consider it. I'm just hoping if there is a date that pops up, it is before October 13.

"But beggars can't be choosers. In an ideal world it would be before then and I can stick to it (retirement plan) but if it is after then... I've made a lot of promises that I've broken but, then again, I made a lot of promises before this fight and didn't produce the goods.

"I'd love the opportunity to challenge Wladimir again for his titles that he rightly deserves to have.

"As the challenger, given the opportunity again, I'm pretty sure I could do things differently."

[diggity]

I don't see how anyone would ever want to watch Haye in a big fight ever again other than to see him get crushed by big bro (whom he would run from all night even more so than Wlad).
I know I can do without another disappointing Haye fight.
His only somewhat exciting heavyweight fight was against Barrett (which says it all).
Haye doesn't belong at heavyweight & should go back to cruiser.
It's clear he isn't willing to risk it all when fighting someone bigger or better than him.
The side show is over.
All he did was wing wild shots at Wlad like someone from a Toughman competition would throw.
Even my fiancee, who knows not a shred about boxing, asked why he was throwing shots like that.

[Kid Dynamite]

Haye would get crushed by Vitaly. Vitaly isnt little Wlad who is happy to follow Haye around and throw 1000 jabs and miss 75 percent of them.

[Ron Lipton]

Yes, that's the ticket another Wlad V Haye fight. I cannot wait until his little toe heals. Put it on ESPN for free, after Haye gives his entire purse from their first fight to the Retired Boxers Foundation. Mail the entire check to Alex Ramos. To have any promoter pay another penny to him for just showing up and running is absurd.
He ran pretty good for a guy with a broken toe. Like he had Wile E Coyote Acme rocket shoes on with wings.

When I think how badly Floyd Mayrunner Jr would run from Manny you get an idea how badly these greatly anticipated "Big" fights get ruined by fighters who are all talk with no balls.

[Overhand_Right]

Haye is ridiculous. He doesn't want the fight. He knows there's not a chance of them fighting by October so why even pretend he's hoping that will happen?

He got his opportunity and he blew it.

The only way David Haye is ever going to be in the ring with a Klitschko again will be facing Vitali where he gets crushed.

[diggity]

He ran pretty good for a guy with a broken toe. Like he had Wile E Coyote Acme rocket shoes on with wings.

When I think how badly Floyd Mayrunner Jr would run from Manny you get an idea how badly these greatly anticipated "Big" fights get ruined by fighters who are all talk with no balls.

hahah, I blew out a snot on that one.

That about sums it all up right there.

[Theo Netherland]

Haye doesn't belong at heavyweight & should go back to cruiser.

You're not the only one who says this:

[Crold1]

You're not the only one who says this:

Size has little to do with it. Other guys Haye's size, and Haye, have beaten much larger men. They just aren't beating the Klits right now. They're not good enough.

[Crold1]

Sultan Dirrell Can Retire Now: Weekend Review and Ratings Update

He talked like Ali.

Offered about as much offense as former Klitschko unification bout loser Sultan Ibragimov.

Flopped and fled like the worst of frustrating and mercurial Super Middleweight talent Andre Dirrell.

Call him the Louisville Slip, Sultan Dirrell, because the David Haye (25-2, 23 KO) who talked smack for the last two years never really showed up.

Lineal World Heavyweight Champion Wladimir Klitschko did. He always does, win or lose. For the 56th time in 59 starts, it was a win. It wasn’t overly impressive, something even the champ allowed. It was still a win, his 14th in a row, and he picked up a WBA belt to go with his stack of honors. That’s not an accident.

Let’s go to the report card.

Pre-Fight: Speed – Klitschko B+; Haye A/Post: Same
Pre-Fight: Power – Klitschko A; Haye A-/Post: Same
Pre-Fight: Defense – Klitschko B+; Haye B/Post: B+; B+
Pre-Fight: Intangibles – Klitschko B+; Haye B+/Post: B+; C

Let’s get the positives out of the way on the defeated side. Of the scores turned in by the three judges, this scribe agreed closest with Stanley Christodolou’s 116-110 (or 9 rounds to 3), giving one more frame to Sultan Dirrell in total for a score of 115-111. He did much better through the first seven than he is getting credit for after the fight, landing most of the few meaningful non-jabs in early spots.

Defensively, Sultan Dirrell was as good as anyone against Wlad recently, making him miss with the jab and right for healthy stretches. However, boxing is hit and don’t get hit. Not don’t get hit and bail. He made him miss. He rarely had the conviction to try to make him pay.

Klitschko (56-3, 49 KO) was his typical efficient, effective self from rounds 8-12 and swept to the end, even managing to win the final round after being rocked early in the final frame. He wisely held and then fired back. The things fans saw in his opponent that could have worked were there on the night. The opponent talked about them in the run up. He had to throw first, use angles, and, at some point, go for broke.

He never did. Great victory can require risks. The mouth that roared was the mouse that refused. To talk of a rematch after the contest was laughable. If the challenger wishes to follow through on his promise of retirement before the fight, few would miss him after Saturday. That could change. It will take a hell of a lot more than was showed against Klitschko in a future fight.

Wlad, early, wasn’t throwing the right much nor the left hook. He kept the jab count up, hit or miss, and Sultan Dirrell would get close and either throw one or none. It had its moments early. After round seven, his stilted effort became almost no effort at all.

It was better to insure survival than dare far more.

It was easier to slip to the floor in soccer flops and complain about a broken toe after the fight. Seriously. He didn’t just take his loss like a pro. That little piggy went wee-wee-wee all the way to the loser’s circle and earned the barbs it’s getting.

Was there a fair complaint that Wlad pushed and leaned sometimes to get him to the ground? Sure. Some. But getting obsessed with looking to the ref and overplaying the foul hand is the same as looking for a way out. Try punching more maybe?

It turned out, on the rare occasions where hard punches landed (and they both averaged around an abominable three power connects per round), both could take a shot. Their chins stood up. Someone needed to land some combinations to make it count. Neither did.

The worst moments were when Haye was caught in corners. Usually, Wlad would wait too long to throw the right and the Brit would freeze and throw nothing at all.

It was a lousy viewing experience.

But, and this has been the case in many recent fights, Wlad cannot be faulted as much as his foe. Wlad is accused of holding too much but, against Sam Peter last year, it was he who was warding off clinches. He clinched almost none on Saturday. Klitschko is accused of freezing in front of dangerous opponents, but he more than doubled all of the punch stats on Saturday. He dared his man to make the fight he promised.

Klitschko laughs last, and best. The champion does what he does. Opponents don’t do what they say they are going to do.

And it’s past time to give Klitschko full credit for that. For those who overly emphasize size as the reason for his success, let’s put that to bed. Historically, and in this era, there have been fighters the size of Klitschko’s latest felled foe that have won. Chris Byrd and Eddie Chambers have wins over men like Jameel McCline, Sam Peter, and Alexander Dimitrenko.

Klitschko wins because he is better than his competition. Period.

Yes, he’s bigger. This is Heavyweight. That’s the point. It’s up to the smaller men to find a way to win. Better smaller men might. Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster once did. Another may some day. They won’t win because of size. They’ll be the better man that day.

Just like Wladimir Klitschko, former Olympic Gold Medalist and current Heavyweight Champion of the World has been 56 times in his pro career so far.

This scribe backed the wrong man to win Saturday. That mistake need not be made again anytime soon.

All hail the king. That’s the only talk worth hearing today.

[darkknight718]

I guess I never really understood why some thought this would be that competitive a fight. Haye was the smaller guy, and hadn't fought any heavyweights of any note. He just had sort of a big mouth. In all honesty, I thought he did better than I expected. He was still throwing punches at the end, and managed to tag Vlad once or twice. Better than many.

But there's just something about Vlad that I don't understand. Maybe you only understand it when you get in the ring with him. If you just watch him fight on TV, he looks incredibly beatable. He's basically all jab and one-two. He's pretty athletic for a big guy, but that's not really saying that much. His chin is incredibly weak, and he and Manny Steward have compensated for that by focusing on his jab to keep people at bay, and his bear hug whenever they manage to get in close. I guess it just looks easy to figure out, and easy to devise a strategy for.

But whenever anyone actually gets into the ring with the guy, they either stand around at the end of his jab, not moving their head and just waiting for him to fire the cruise missle down the middle, or, like Haye, they come in without an apparent plan other than to not get tied up inside, and to wing wild shots from the outside in the hopes of landing something. Neither seems to work. Credit to Vlad and to Manny for taking a pretty flawed fighter and making him seem practically unbeatable. I used to think that his success had more to do with his opponents than him, but when he basically treats everybody he faces almost exactly the same way, you have to start to think that maybe it's something about Vlad.

[hagler04]

I guess I never really understood why some thought this would be that competitive a fight. Haye was the smaller guy, and hadn't fought any heavyweights of any note. He just had sort of a big mouth. In all honesty, I thought he did better than I expected. He was still throwing punches at the end, and managed to tag Vlad once or twice. Better than many.

But there's just something about Vlad that I don't understand. Maybe you only understand it when you get in the ring with him. If you just watch him fight on TV, he looks incredibly beatable. He's basically all jab and one-two. He's pretty athletic for a big guy, but that's not really saying that much. His chin is incredibly weak, and he and Manny Steward have compensated for that by focusing on his jab to keep people at bay, and his bear hug whenever they manage to get in close. I guess it just looks easy to figure out, and easy to devise a strategy for.

But whenever anyone actually gets into the ring with the guy, they either stand around at the end of his jab, not moving their head and just waiting for him to fire the cruise missle down the middle, or, like Haye, they come in without an apparent plan other than to not get tied up inside, and to wing wild shots from the outside in the hopes of landing something. Neither seems to work. Credit to Vlad and to Manny for taking a pretty flawed fighter and making him seem practically unbeatable. I used to think that his success had more to do with his opponents than him, but when he basically treats everybody he faces almost exactly the same way, you have to start to think that maybe it's something about Vlad.

The key to fighting Klitschko is conditioning . . you have to have the condition to throw and miss lots of punches early, because Wladimir has a superb defensive style and as he's shown he will not come to you and walk into counters. Foot-speed also helps. Haye had fast hands but has always had very poor footwork and doesn't bring his feet with him when he wings in with bombs, leaving him off-balance and able to throw crisp multi-punch combinations in-close. Steward noted this pre-fight and was one reason he wasn't so concerned about Haye. Haye also didn't have the faith in his conditioning to be highly active . . he was the same vs Valuev and Harrison. Even vs Ruiz, his punch output was not impressive.

The other guys he's beaten . . Peter, Brock, Chagaev, Rahman, Chambers . . guys with plodding footwork and who don't keep up a high pace in their regular fights. Klitschko can eat up those guys all day long, just as Holmes could outjab the likes of Zanon and LeDoux 7 days a week and not break a sweat.

[diggity]

The shame of it all is that had Haye gone in there, gave it his all & got KOd like he was supposed to (especially with the "broken toe" excuse & all), Britons would have majorly embraced him.

[Ron Lipton]

The irrefutable truth is based on all the films of the Klitchko's fights if they were not 6'7" tall but 6'3" or even 6'4" they would both get knocked out by most everyone.

DarkKnight718 said it so perfectly and succinctly about Wlad's style and it is also his brother's. Paw, jab, land, miss, bear hug, please don't hit me in the face, jump back, paw, jab, one-two down the middle, slap a left hook one out of a hundred times if at all, jump back, block, use the height, use the height, use the height, jump back, one-two from 5 miles away, grab, tie them up ad infinitum. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Ron Lipton]

PS, Add to that the fat, the re treads, the unwilling, the mediocre over the hill challengers and yes the barren wasteland of the heavyweight division has been dominated. Wladimer did not listen to one word, not one syllable of what Steward told him. Manny was a good amateur but not a puncher, I watched the videos of his mitt work with Wladimir and it was very, very average. The Ukrainian brothers will not punch bending their knees, they box from 5 miles out and have never taken the risk to be in shoot outs like Lyle V Foreman, Lyle V Shavers, Liston V Williams, even Homes v Norton.

When you work with Hearns and all the Kronk bangers of course they are fighters who will get in there to get some respect to begin with, the Klits need to fight someone big who can fight but guess what there is no one on planet earth. Sam Peters had a gut as wide as Tony Galento, Briggs was big but shot to pieces years ago. The rest are midgets trying to reach their chin with no power.

Dempsey, Frazier, Liston, Foreman would have blasted the shit out of both of them. They cannot take a punch and will do ANYTHING to avoid getting hit, as soon as they do they grab and hold for dear life.

[robertk]

What promotion is going to put up $$$$ to get a rematch for these guys? That was a horrible performance by the WBA champion trying to win 2 other belts. This was a champion fighting another champion, afterall. Those opportunities just don't come along. I wouldn't back Haye with monopoly money for that effort and he wants a rematch? Who in boxing is putting up big money for those fights right now? For what, he deserves about 10% of the purse he just got or even less?

[KOJOE90]

Everyone relax as I posted earlier and is being widely reported there is NO talk of a rematch (that I know of).

Wlads management have said no to a rematch but yes to the possibility of a Haye V Vitali Klitschko fight. This of course depend on wether Haye stands by his October retirement deadline.