Pac vs. Mosley

[hawk5ins]

of Clottey and Margarito, I personally did expect more from Manny.

I am one of his biggest supporters on this site. That said, I am going to be openly critical of him for taking this bout.

Arum has a product in Manny and he is going to look for the most money, the least amount of risk, the name recognition to market a bout and the easiest path to putting a fight together.

In Shane he has the perfect package.

Manny has unfinished business with Marquez.

If there is no Mayweather, THAT should be the bout he was pushing for.

By not and accepting what will be now the third consecutive bout in which the knowledgable fight people will be almost unanimous in picking Manny to win and decisively so, I think he's doing a disservice to the sport. I understand it is not his fault the Mayweather fight did not come off twice now. But can anyone here say with a straight face that Manny's contingency plans have included "the Next best thing" available?

Really?

Yes it is a business and I'm sure he doesn't give a hoot what I think he should do. But at the same time, I can certainly be openly critical of this selection of opponent.

Manny DOES have a say in opponent selection. He's simply not voicing it. Or maybe he is.

Either way, I don't have to like it. Fan of Manny's or not.

Hawk

[dongee]

If Pac is matched against Mosely the only thing I see wrong about that is if the bout is offered on PPV. Manny's prestige/celebrity will probably demand that. Given Shane's attrition at present that would be uncalled for.

In the old days topflight champions fought anyone, anytime, anyplace. The great Freddie Miller, Fidel LaBarba, and many other kingpins took bouts in tank towns to build their reputations into the hinterlands. IMO there is little wrong with a Mosely vs Pacman bout excepting when fans are forced to fork over hard earnd bucks for a (ON PAPER) so-so match. Mosely is not exactly a one leggerd foe for anyone....remember him a little as the man who fought Vargas twice nd handled Margarito as well as Pacman did.

Jusst a thought.

hap navarro

[hawk5ins]

Problem is, those performances were a long time ago.

It will have been 2 and a half years, when Manny Mosley comes off, since Shane won a bout.

He was routed against Mayweather following his oh so brief moment of having Floyd hurt.

And just to be certain it wasn't an issue of Floyd being that much better than Shane and more of an issue of how bad an aging and in active Mosley was, we got the Mora performance to confirm just how far gone Shane is.

THe days of fighting lesser fighters between title fights is a long time ago. Ok at least the prime of Julio Cesar Chavez ago.

This isn't a Non title/warm up bout though. THis isn't JCC engaging in a fill in bout with a Spent Bazooka Limon in 1988......but at the same time, that is EXACTLY what it is.

But THIS, WILL be a marquee bout.

And Shane IS going to get hurt. And the effects are going to last for a long time following it.

And there ARE other, more demanding options out there for Manny.

That he isn't choosing to take them and IS taking this bout, does deserve criticism.

Hawk

[walshb]

It's kinda' funny to hear Roach making out that this will be a real test.
Saying stuff like, "Shane's a better boxer than Margarito." I mean, who isn't?

[diggity]

Anyone becomes a promoter once your own paycheck is involved.

[doomeddisciple]

http://espn.go.com/sports/boxing/blo...d-fight-boxing

Rafael's take.

Though I prefer his succinct twitter post "Mosley-Pac is like getting a lump of cola in your Christmas stocking isn't it?"

[diggity]

A healthy 53% of the people who responded to this ESPN poll are uninterested in this fight. How's that Arum?

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=5944532

And if we are talking purely making this fight because of gate purposes, wouldn't Manny ideally like a MEXICAN opponent when fighting around Cinco De Mayo - especially when JMM hasn't exactly been a dud at the box office?
Seems to make biz-sense to me in my little fan-brain anyway...

[JaKob]

Not impressed. One bit. As a big pac fan. He's had a great career and he's proven enough already. Why a completely redundant fight. Just retire. Lets not pretend this means anything. Pac will slaughter him in much the same way he did dela hoya. It wont be impressive, it will be cringe worthy.

[JLP 6]

I remember a while ago people were saying that they wanted to see this match up more than Mayweather - Pacquiao because Shane bought more power, and fighting spirit that Mayweather.

Well, here it is...Don't knock it. Buy it and love it.

For my part, I am not disappointed. Mosley has a good a chance to beat Pacquiao than any of the other tomato's being thrown around. Probably a better chance. Mosley did woble Mayweather before being taken apart.

Boxing is in a sad state. Boxers in their late 30's an 40's are still relivant and top fighters.

This will be yet another Pacquiao fight, I will ignore.

[hawk5ins]

Who said that about Manny Mosley.

ANd I actually referenced that point, earlier in this thread:

"THis thread is about Manny and Mosley.

I think THAT matchup is a pathetic Joke considering how awful Shane looked in his last bout. (This coming from someone who said well over a year ago, following Mosley's win over AM, that Manny Mosley would be a very entertaining fight. That IMO is no longer the case)."

Here's an easy analogy:

As late as late 1995/early 1996, I thought the best Heavyweight matchup we could get would have been Lennox Lewis vs Riddick Bowe.

It was the fight everyone wanted to have seen since Lewis Ko'd Rudduck and Bowe beat Holyfield in their first fight.

But by the END of 1996, Less than a year later and following the two Andrew Golota bouts, Lewis vs Bowe would have been a cruel, cruel joke.

Manny Mosley NOW, when it takes place in May of next year, 2 and a Half years after I thought this would have been a good idea and the same amount of time since Mosley actually won a fight, it ALSO, is going to be a Cruel Cruel Joke.

Hawk

[walshb]

Problem was, that a lot of folks were fooled by Shane's performance against that punch bag, Margarito; then thinking that Shane would give Manny trouble. Shane looked great, but look what was in front of him. I said it at the time, that Manny would eat Shane alive.

[hagler04]

I don't have a problem with this fight. The only other bout one could argue Pac SHOULD have fought was vs Marquez, but Mosley is still a top 10 welterweight and the former champ. If he stops Mosley and beats him worse than Floyd did (just like vs Hatton and Oscar), he rubs dirt in Floyd's eyes even more.

[hawk5ins]

my Post Fight contempt for this bout will be the equivilant of my Pre Fight contempt.

Manny gets NO points from me for wiping Mosley out as I expect he will becuase this is CLEARLY a punched ticket in Mosley.

And Shane still being a top 10 Welterweight following the Mora performance? Well I am not arguing that this isn't the case. But the reality is that this says more about how barren 147 is than anything else.

THAT performance is an automatic exit from the top 10 rankings in virtually any other era.

Rationalizing Where Mosley was at in his career FOLLOWING the beating he's going to get from Manny?

Well, that can be done PRIOR to the bout. No need to wait.

When the fight comes off in May of 2011, Sugar Shane Mosley will:

.....Be 4 months shy of 40 Years old.

.....Have fought only 2 times in the previous 2 and one half years

.....Have not won a fight in 2 and a half Years.

.....Have not looked REMOTELY impressive since the win over Margarito back in January, 2009. Add to it Shane did not look all that good in the previous three bouts prior to AM, in bouts with Mayorga, Cotto and Collazzo. He did look very good against Antonio. But that momentum was killed with inactivity, age and bouts not coming off.

The writing is ALL on the wall prior to this fight happening.

I just don't want anyone acting surprised, aghast or disgusted AFTER the fight, if they haven't done so PRIOR to the bout.

The MAP is right there for everyone to read.

Hawk

[jlupi]

I do believe that golden boy is in the wrong in pushing a marquez fight and totally dismissing the idea of mosley getting the fight. there job was to try to get a fight for one of there clients. and mosley was one. As i read somewhere - "would they be looking for an immediate rematch for Hopkins if a younger Dawson was inked to them"

they seem to be quite blatant when caught in a conflict of interest.

[diggity]

The MAP is right there for everyone to read.

Hawk

...as if his unimpressive performance against an equally unimpressive Mora and his exhibition of sleep walking into PBF's punches for 10 rounds wasn't enough evidence.

[hagler04]

my Post Fight contempt for this bout will be the equivilant of my Pre Fight contempt.

Manny gets NO points from me for wiping Mosley out as I expect he will becuase this is CLEARLY a punched ticket in Mosley.

And Shane still being a top 10 Welterweight following the Mora performance? Well I am not arguing that this isn't the case. But the reality is that this says more about how barren 147 is than anything else.

THAT performance is an automatic exit from the top 10 rankings in virtually any other era.

Rationalizing Where Mosley was at in his career FOLLOWING the beating he's going to get from Manny?

Well, that can be done PRIOR to the bout. No need to wait.

When the fight comes off in May of 2011, Sugar Shane Mosley will:

.....Be 4 months shy of 40 Years old.

.....Have fought only 2 times in the previous 2 and one half years

.....Have not won a fight in 2 and a half Years.

.....Have not looked REMOTELY impressive since the win over Margarito back in January, 2009. Add to it Shane did not look all that good in the previous three bouts prior to AM, in bouts with Mayorga, Cotto and Collazzo. He did look very good against Antonio. But that momentum was killed with inactivity, age and bouts not coming off.

The writing is ALL on the wall prior to this fight happening.

I just don't want anyone acting surprised, aghast or disgusted AFTER the fight, if they haven't done so PRIOR to the bout.

The MAP is right there for everyone to read.

Hawk

No-one is claiming Mosley is near his peak, but I don't remember hearing all this 'Mosley is a sad old shell' pre-Floyd.

Mora makes everyone he faces looked unimpressive. And he did manage to beat the most under-rated Welter of the past decade in Forrest.

One has to look at who were Manny's viable options. No-one cares about Berto and he should rematch Collazo who IMO beat him years back before sniffing near such a big money fight. Andre is the definition of a paper champion. Floyd is too busy between "retirements" and getting arrested. Martinez is an interesting proposition but no-one should blame Manny for not taking on the current 160 lb champion. Who else is there that could bring in some of the big money Manny now commands? Marquez is the only other viable option and even though I agree that would have been a better fight, JMM has been effectively outgrown and does anyone really think Marquez would win a rubber match above lightweight?



Manny should be getting similar accolades for beating Shane as Floyd got. What those exactly are is up to opinion.

[JaKob]

The extent of Moselys age related decline was exposed in the mayweather fight. After that Alarm bells should be ringing big time when considering him facing Pac. As slick and quick as mayweather is he doesn't pose the same danger a fighter like pacquaio does. That combination of raw speed and power applied with intensity and volume. To compound this further pacquaio is bound to implement the in and out footwork, rhythm, and angles shown against the likes of de la hoya. Mayweather stood infront of him, i suspect early on pacquaio will be nowhere to be found.

[hawk5ins]

Prior to the Mayweather Mosley bout:

02-06-2010, 08:05 AM #66
hawk5ins

Lets' not forget the Mayorga bout GREAT Ko, but Shane looked pretty average that fight.

Listen, following in the AM bout, in whihc Shane looked fantastic, I'm thinking that the rejuvination process from that bout, specifically from a confidence standpoint, could have continued it's positive trend for a few more bouts.............had the 37 year old jumped right back inthe ring and remained active.

But all that, that we saw agianst AM, was wasted. It's asking an awful lot for Shane to show up after such a layoff at this age and stage of his career, to keep this going agianst a level of fighter such as Mayweather or Manny.

Against Berto, it probably works.

But not Floyd (dull dull minimalist bout) or Manny (styles would have made this an excellent bout, with Shane on the losing end, probably by TKO. HAD that bout happened closer to the AM win.).

Asking too much of Shane, to be honest. At this stage, age and after such a layoff.

Hope I'm all wet.

Hawk

Things a year and a half later a Mora Draw in between, Pushing 40, are only going to be worse for SHane.

Hawk

[jlupi]

Manny should be getting similar accolades for beating Shane as Floyd got. What those exactly are is up to opinion.>>>>

I dont know about this. shane was coming off a great performance. Now as hawk pointed out its been 2 years since this aging fighter showed us anything but a single punch.

[KOJOE90]

I'm a fan of both Mosley and Pacman but I REALLY don't want to see this fight.

Mosley was one of those fighters I thought may have more sence than to hang around for that 'one fight too many' ans this fight looks like the one.

[gregbeyer]

ray robinson said a guy would not last long if all he did was fight tough fights. he said the easier bouts were necessary to keep sharp for the big fights.

in the end this is a business. manny does not have a lot of time left, shane none. the time for both to make money is right now. for all of us wishing shane would not have to face manny at this point we must remember this is what he has always done. fight. i am sure he is thrilled for the chance to make big money.

its just another swan song .... one of boxings favorite tunes.

greg

[HE Grant]

I remember a while ago people were saying that they wanted to see this match up more than Mayweather - Pacquiao because Shane bought more power, and fighting spirit that Mayweather.

Well, here it is...Don't knock it. Buy it and love it.

For my part, I am not disappointed. Mosley has a good a chance to beat Pacquiao than any of the other tomato's being thrown around. Probably a better chance. Mosley did woble Mayweather before being taken apart.

Boxing is in a sad state. Boxers in their late 30's an 40's are still relivant and top fighters.

This will be yet another Pacquiao fight, I will ignore.

After Shane was so easily dominated by Floyd he lost credibility .. in addition, Floyd looks like he made a point about the difference when steroid testing is enforced .. I have zero interest in the bout ..

[HE Grant]

I remember a while ago people were saying that they wanted to see this match up more than Mayweather - Pacquiao because Shane bought more power, and fighting spirit that Mayweather.

Well, here it is...Don't knock it. Buy it and love it.

For my part, I am not disappointed. Mosley has a good a chance to beat Pacquiao than any of the other tomato's being thrown around. Probably a better chance. Mosley did woble Mayweather before being taken apart.

Boxing is in a sad state. Boxers in their late 30's an 40's are still relivant and top fighters.

This will be yet another Pacquiao fight, I will ignore.

After Shane was so easily dominated by Floyd he lost credibility .. in addition, Floyd looks like he made a point about the difference when steroid testing is enforced .. I have zero interest in the bout .. the 24/7 people will have a bigger challenge selling this fight than Paq should in the ring ..

[Kurant]

Well well, I just got home 2 days ago from my 2nd stint in the desert, this was the first I heard of this.

Personally, I think you all believe Pacman is signing these fights to fight the "best" fighter out there. The "best" fighter out there has legal issues, and part of me believe they are going to stick it to Floyd. We may have seen the last of him.

Pacman is in this for the cash. He loves to fight, and at this point if Golden Boy is going to offer him a crazy amount of money to step in the ring with Shane, which is a fight that WILL sell to the general public just like every Pac fight.. Why wouldn't he take it?

I've been disconnected from the world, but I'm finally back on our soil and its Christmas!

Pac destroys Shane.

[diggity]

Welcome back Kurant!

[hawk5ins]

Swan song fight do, have and can still happen.

I am not begrudging a sound business decision that Manny and Arum are making nor the opportunity for Shane to make money for one last fight.

But that does not mean I have to like it and the bout is above being criticized.

Again, Had Manny come off of a big bout or even a couple of tough fights, absolutely, take a gimme, which is what this will turn out to be.

But Not following two virtual shutouts over two fighter, while ranked and Good solid fighters, were not going to beat or give Manny much of a challenge.

I defended the right to take on Clottey following Manny's move to welterweight to take on Cotto. Which going into that bout, the only questions we had were if Manny could compete at welter against a fighter like Cotto. A good but not particulary special welter. One with skills, decent power and most importantly, he was carrying a legit welterweight frame.

Could Manny get over that hurdle.

Well he did and with ease. In hindsight, it was not as big a challenge as some thought it may have been, but it was a challenge.

Clottey and his non effort and AM and what he brought to the table, made for two one sided bouts.

IMO, Manny should be in line for a challenge.

Something Marquez, if the bout is at 140, could provide (although I take Manny by clear decision, as JMM has slipped quite a bit, beginning in the Juan Diaz fight. Not as much as Mosley, but still it is apparent.)

Or if he wanted an "ultimate" challenge, go after Martinez.

A bout, where there would be legitimate questions if he could win the bout. Most probably take Martinez. THAT is a challenge. Maybe too big of a challenge. But hey, can't take sure thing wins EVERY fight out.

Absolutely it is withing Manny's right to take this fight with SHane.

But even his fans, and I am certainly one of them, have a right to criticize this one, especially the timing of it.

Hawk

[Off The River]

I really don't criticize Manny, or Arum for doing this, it's business.

I don't like the fight and hope Shane comes out of this healthy.

I'm actualy pissed of at Roach. For a guy who fought a few to many fights, he should know better.

[gregbeyer]

hawk,

not sure you understand the meaning of a swan song or at least were not clear in your first sentence. absolutely you don't have to like anything about. i did not say i liked it. i just understand it.

also it always seems strange when people say they are mad at freddie roach since he should know what it means to have a couple of fights too many or how they fear for the safety of a guy like mosely. i always wonder where these people were when simmie black or mouse strauss were taking beatings every other week. why did they not scream when joan guzman fought a club kid like jason davis a while back. there are truer crimes in the sport than shane mosely fighting manny pacquiou to complain about.

and above all i agree with hap. many undeserving fights bleed money from the fans. i will certainly not be paying for this one and believe others should boycott it also. some fights may be worth the price but the price of mediocrity continues to rise in this sport and needs to be curbed.

greg

[Wladimir Klitschko Sucks]

i don't understand the moaning about this fight, everyone is calling for Paq to fight JMM but i didn't here anyone here call for Shane vs. JMM -does anyone thing JMM would beat Shane? Shane is a MExican Assasin just like Paq so it makes sense that these two see who the REal Mexican Assassin,

WKS

[hawk5ins]

I absolutely understand why it is happening.

Is it the worst "Crime" that is happening in our sport?

No.

But I can air my disapproval and disppointment about THIS particular bout. In particular because there is a current thread on this bout and becuase it is in the news.

Taking the approach of remaining silent about this bout, simply because there were Other, More eggregious examples of this particular scenario happening in the sports past, doesn't Make a lot of sense to me.

THIS is the bout that is being discussed. Where it rates on the scale of "worst fights ever to be signed based on the wear and tear on one specific fighter", I am not going to cast a vote.

I simply see THIS bout as one that should NOT take place. THere were OTHER bouts that Manny could and should have taken above this one. Specifically becuase of value of his last two opponents and the competitiveness of those bouts.

I am dissappointed in Team Pac for taking this bout.

That dissappointment from me, on THIS bout, is going to be present regardless of other swan song mismatches that have taken place before or after this fight.

Hawk