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Thread: Mayweather-Ortiz, Sept 17th

  1. #211
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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Just watched that replay and Cortez did say, "Let's go, and motioned the fighters together. At that point, it was game on and protect yourself at all times. Ortiz had already hugged and touched on two separate occasions before that, so there was no reason to do so once more. He should have protected himself at all times. Failing to do so was his fault. True May could have been more sportsmanlike, but he wasn't obligated to do so. It's boxing. You are there to fight, not hug. May actually had a surprised look on his face when Ortiz went to hug again as if to say, "What are you doing? He said let's go and moved his hands together. It's time to fight, you idiot." So in hindsight, I don't think it was Cortez's fault, but Ortiz for not protecting himself and assuming May wouldn't be really angry after getting hit with an intentional head butt.
    Last edited by apollack; 09-18-2011 at 08:38 AM.

  2. #212
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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Well, on the lighter side, I thought Merchant's comeback (obviously in jest) was terrific. Funny old fart.

    The dynamic between M & M wasn't exactly Ali and Cosell was it? Metaphorically speaking, unlike Ortiz, at least Larry wasn't going to let his arms hang impotently down by his sides while Floyd took his free shots. Merchant was good and ready.

    Still, Larry might've said "If I was fifty years younger you'd still kick my ass but I'd have a relatively fresh liver to bash all over again! Yippee!"

    As a prospective opponent, Larry showed far too much verve. Best to put him on the back burner for a few more years yet.

    PS -Theo, thanks for including the vision - very convenient to refer to.
    Last edited by PD99; 09-18-2011 at 08:50 AM.

  3. #213
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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Now that I watched it all a few thoughts ...

    1. All along Ortiz looked mentally fragile to me n the 24-7 clips ... how many times was he going to tell his sad story ? He looks like someone with deeply unresolved issues right below the surface ... the fact that he basically quit in a previous major bout only proved to me that he was mentally shaky ... I wrote before this here that one of the reasons I picked Floyd was that he was so much stronger mentally ..

    2. Floyd did nothing wrong. Ortiz managed to hit him with an overhand left that drove him into the ropes like Dempsey did Tunney in Chicago .. he then proceeded to have his most effective moment while firing in some decent shots .. he then got stupid and fired a bad head butt as he lost control ... he then went the other extreme with multiple apologizes ... once Floyd went with it, twice Floyd went with it .. the third time after the break Floyd fired and flattened him ... to me to make matters worse Ortiz looked a bit like he quit, wanting not part of getting back up. Ortiz mentally weak .. the head butt, the multiple apologizes, the not concentrating ... a mentally weak fighter ...

    3. Floyd's actions reminded me of Johnson - Ketchel .. the way he basically recovered and flattened the other guy .... very dramatic ... losing it in the post fight interview was simply his own demons on display ..he was totally wrong but he is in many ways a diva blended with gangster rapper culture and surrounded by so many ass kissing yes men he has lost all perspective ... it was an ugly moment ..

    That's that ...
    Last edited by HE Grant; 09-18-2011 at 09:50 AM.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    I wasnt sure if Cortez said "box" or "go" but many on this board say he did. I was in a crowded bar watching the fight and the sound was mumbled.

    If he did say "box" or motion for them to fight then Mayweather did nothing wrong. Ortiz was way too smiley for me after the fight. I expected some fire from the kid. I expected him to protest and demand a rematch. Blah, nothing.

    I saw a lot of pissed off people in that bar last night.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Am I the only one wondering why Mayweather should have had to touch gloves, be hugged, be kissed, and whatever else, THREE times by the guy who intentionally, flagrantly fouled him . . . and also wondering why Ortiz offered ANY apology?? He did it INTENTIONALLY.

    It wasn't like a slightly low blow or a punch thrown a split-second after the bell. It was unquestionably intentional. So why the apology, Victor--you MEANT to do it!?

    One fighter started the fouling, the other ended it-- after much delay, I might add. I wanted Ortiz to win, I give him credit for his effort, but no way is anyone to blame for his KO loss but him.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    I'm not too fussed by Mayweather hitting him, although it wasn't very sporting.

    My problem is with Ortiz rolling around for the full count like he'd been hit by Julian Jackson, then being all smiles afterwards. He never wanted to be there int he first place and does not belong in a boxing ring anymore.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    I just wish Tommy Hearns was 26 because I don't think Pacquiao will beat Mayweather to the extent that he needs to be beaten.

    Had Mayweather gone after Ortiz in the manner that Holyfield went after Tyson following the 2nd bite, I would have felt better about the ending. I think it speaks volumes about his character that he tagged him in that position. Anotherwords, being within the rules and having an iota of class are two vastly different things. This reminds me of the Warren Sapp-Kyle Clifton incident about 5-6 years ago, yeah, the play was live...but.

    For me, this was the worst possible scenario. I liked Ortiz quite a bit before the fight as he seemed like a very nice kid. Then the headbutt soured that, to say the least. Another guy worth following and rooting for gone by the wayside. Mayweather's tirade with Merchant just further reinforced what I already knew, Floyd is an absolute delusional p.o.s. as a person (much like Sapp talking junk to Mike Sherman after the game. Tough, tough guy. Bleccch) and having to hear his pure unadulterated b.s. later (on ESPN) about enhancing his HOF credentials and cleaning the sport made me want to jump through the TV.

    I'm no Larry Merchant fan and he is rough around the edges, but he's not Jim Gray, either. He didn't say anything to warrant that response.

    Lousy night. Another p.o.s. referee does another p.o.s. job, Ortiz looked very much like he was trying to win a DQ after performing a bar fight maneuver and Mayweather is still undefeated.

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    Re: Mayweather-Ortiz, Sept 17th

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Lipton View Post
    It is all actually very simple with no room for discussion. No? Let me prove it to you. 1. The intentional foul of butting was wrong and the point deduction or a stern warning is understood explicitly by me as a referee.

    2. The apology was genuine by Ortiz.

    3. All you have to do to see that Steve Kim of Max boxing was 100% correct in saying Cortez is one of the worst referees is watch the ending in slow motion.

    4. You will see Joe with his mouth open wide, staring off into space, having ZERO control of two champion boxers, the Joe looks off to the side a la Joe Walcott in Ali v Liston II or like Joe did in abandoning that boxer on the mat while taking a little walk about leaves fighters unattended to do whatever they want.

    5. Legal or otherwise a disgusting cheap shot by Mayweather. 6. Cortez still did not know WTF was going on and was "Shocked, shocked" like Claude Rains in Casablanca to know Gambling was going on in Rick's Cafe,
    Whoa what is this, Ortiz is down, how did that happen? An absolute disgrace of inattentive refereeing. Horrible job.

    6. Guess what, Yes I did hear as a fighter and referee about protect yourself at all times, but the referee was NOT THERE. 7. I must say this with reluctance but honesty, I think Frank Baltazar knows what I saw.

    7. It made me sick how Ortiz Q.U.I.T. and it made me sick the lack of protest by his corner and in plain street parlance the amount of ass kissing and sucking dick afterward. 8. Anyone strong corner in boxing would have gone berserk with protest, but not the kid who quit on Maidana?

    8. Floyd Mayweather Jr, had no right shit lipping Merchant and I don't blame Larry one bit. Who the fuck is PBF not to answer a legit question about taking a cheap shot like that, hell man it happened so deal with it.

    9. Was he right to go after Ortiz, YES, YES AND YES AGAIN, but why not there is no fucking referee in there, just an out of shape political pet who is soooooo long past being sat down, he ruined yet another fight.

    10. Fighters will always butt, strike back, hit me low, I will hit you low, hit on the break, but that is why you need a referee WITHOUT A BIG FAT POT BELLY, 40lbs overweight who cannot move or react. Fair but firm my asshole, he lost control and boxing took it in the balls again with a shit ending.

    11. PS. Hey Victor, while you were busting your balls doing all that sparring and roadwork, where did you get it into your little amateur haid to turn to the referee after you butted a boxer, next time hire a trainer who will show you a Dempsey v Sharkey film.

    12. You are a champion? You don't know not to turn your head and keep your hands up at all times. Fucking pathetic ending, pathetic quitting on the floor and pathetic ass kissing afterward, pathetic lack of protest from your corner,
    what a waste of training.

    End of story.
    Ron Lipton
    $60 PPV my ass.
    Thank you Mr. Lipton!!!!

    I have to add this, too. I NEVER watched a fight you did where YOU were the topic of conversation afterwards. Imagine that? A ref doing his job and not stealing the spotlight through negligence/arrogance/ineptitude or anything else. Why is that so much to ask?

  9. #219
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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Hmm. Ortiz blew it. He won the second round and was winning the forth. He knew the early rounds would be Floyd at his best and as the younger guy he would come on with the aggression and overtake Floyd. He could have done it. He was warming up to the task. Then the headbutt, the loss of control of the match by Cortez, the over apology by Ortiz and he let his guard down to be koed by a fighter desparate for advantage (ala Dempsey v Sharkey) and with the greater desire to survive. It was a cheap shot and no legit ko but entirely legal I suppose. Cortez wasnt watching anyhow so how was the action waved on is my question. The ref should ALWAYS be watching the action if he says box. Dont understand it. The whole thing made me sick. IMO Ortiz was going to win this thing and he could have. He was turning it into a dogfight and he had the youth and strength to win but great champions find ways to win and Floyd did that tonight.

  10. #220
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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Was Ortiz really KOed or did he fold like a lawn chair?.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Frank View Post
    I guess I don't see what everyone else saw; what a surprise. Watching Theo's post of the entire 4th round and then the post-fight, I don't see Ortiz as any "bitch" or coward, or lacking fighting heart one bit. I saw a guy who was all over Mayweather for most of the 4th round (landing few effective blows, however), then circling away-- call it running (for only a brief few seconds)-- then back to chasing and punching Floyd.

    As the least fan of Floyd here, I don't see any flagrant foul by Floyd at all. All he did, after Ortiz's intentional headbutt, was stand there for Ortiz's apologetic gestures (oddly a hug and kiss) once, then, several seconds later, a second time when Ortiz touched his left glove to Floyd's left glove (who acknowledged him again), THEN Oriz did it a 3rd time at ring center after the ref told them to fight ("Go") . . . and Floyd did touch gloves again, but in my view he just wanted to finally fight after a lengthy delay.

    Referee Cortez definitely said something like "Go" (but why in the pros is there no standard instruction such as "Box" as in the amateurs?) and waved them together to fight (at which point Ref Cortez was inexplicably looking away, seemingly toward the timekeeper perhaps?) and Ortiz walked in listlessly, touched gloves AGAIN and otherwise lowered his gloves and looked to hug, AGAIN, and Floyd-- having heard "Go" well before-- still touched gloves but then proceeded to fight. Instead of the typical stepping back after glove-touching. I don't think he "cold-cocked" him at all; instead, Ortiz's insistence on the hugging and glove-touching a 3rd time, when he darned well should have been proceeding to fight, is why he got nailed. Ortiz seemed in a self-imposed daze from the moment he butted Floyd right up to the point he and Floyd were told "Go." Possibly because he was embarrassed at his intentional, obvious headbutt on worldwide TV, hence the grand, very overdone, and repeated, gestures of apology.

    Ortiz had a weird need to hug after fouling--why??-- since glove-touching, ONCE, is the usual practice. This dropping one's hands, acting like there's now a "time-out", and walking in hugging & kissing was something I've never seen in the ring, and the act of going to hug, itself, lowers one's hands and exposes him to punches. That's why Ortiz was unprotected WELL AFTER he should have FINALLY had his gloves up. His fault-- not Floyd's, not Joe Cortez's.

    Having said that, just witnessing the 4th round I see nothing to cause anyone to call Ortiz a bitch, a coward, has no heart, etc. A weird boxer for the hugging/kissing? Yes! But he was fighting harder than several other Mayweather opponents.

    It also seemed obvious that Larry Merchant's final comment to Floyd was no threat nor meant in a bad way; Merchant seemed to have a big smile on his face when he said he'd kick Floyd's butt . . . a smile that remained as he turned to interview Ortiz. That he used those words, even as a joke, seemed out of place, but maybe was his only way of handling being brutally, in-your-face insulted by Floyd several times, eyeball to eyeball, and not ever expecting such a thing. Thus not knowing how best to respond.

    Joe Cortez? A bad ref usually, looked in a daze at the crucial moment of "time-in" as did Ortiz, made missteps for sure. But, HE is supposed to be to blame for the KO? No way. Ortiz should have had his hands up to protect himself before then. Instead of acting, for the third time, as if he, alone, could declare complete "time-outs" wherein he could continually drop his hands and embrace his opponent.

    By the way, what if Ortiz, already with a flagrant headbutt to his discredit, had walked into Mayweather as if to hug and then cold-cocked Mayweather? I ask this because, after X number of these hugs, Floyd has got to be expected to put his own hands up to protect himself.

    Never thought I'd ever speak on PBF's behalf.
    I pretty much agree with all of the above. Ortiz didn't "quit," the guy didn't know where he was, that was a legit KO. Also, Victor, one hug and kiss . . .ok, but Joe had motioned that the fight is on, this isn't a sparring session. Can anyone imagine Joe Frazier or Gene Fullmer wanting to hug three times after a foul? Ortiz just doesn't have the internal fortitude to be a true elite fighter. He was doing OK but not any better than Hatton did in the early rounds, I think a KO loss for him was inevitable. Per usual, he neglected the jab and no fighter will beat a slickster like Floyd without a consistent jab.

    And Merchant had every right to spout back, the guy is over 80 frikkin' years old and FLoyd started screaming at his face b/c he asked a question.

    But what everyone is forgetting is that this is pure marketing GOLD. Not a death nail to boxing at all, now EVERYONE who was on the fence hates Floyd and will want to see him get KO'd. Thus more people tuning into his fights. You'd almost think it was staged.

  12. #222
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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Considering Ortiz quit as soon as he got solid then there's really no logical reason to suppose he could or would have won the fight over 12. That's a very long time for Ortiz to not get hit.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Quote Originally Posted by hagler04 View Post
    And Merchant had every right to spout back, the guy is over 80 frikkin' years old and FLoyd started screaming at his face b/c he asked a question.
    Never realised that he is that old. To me almost every boxingshow he's commentating is a treat. If hes there, it maybe a mismatch, but he makes something of it. He has so much knowledge of the sport. Mayweather should have shown more respect and I think he should apologize.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    what everyone is leaving out is if Ortiz can get to mayweather like that... what will a motivated faster harder hitting pacman do. Mayweather was the better boxer in the center ring..AND... we all knew that, I think every figured maywether would win,,, but time and time again he was maneurved back to the ropes. just in a straight line backwards and unlike in the dlh fight... shots were landing... If you look beneath the surface Pacman must be extremely anxious to get in there based on that performance..except for one thing.. Pacman always backs out of clinches with his hands down adjusting his shorts....Mayweather has hit gotti, mosley now ortiz like this.. all legal, but clearly lack of class, but legal... I hope pacman signs and does not make this mistake tht others have..

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    I also have watched it many times and anyone has their right to their take on it all and to color it any way you want also. A major title fight was ruined for the fans who know what a title fight is. Steve Kim from Max Boxing warned us all ahead of time that Cortez with his HORRIBLE track record was going to ruin this fight somehow, someway. He did. Ortiz showed glaring transparent retro glimpses into the mindset that existed for him in the Maidana fight. Frank Baltazar called it and he was right.

    Cortez's handling of the final moments were inexcusable, inept refereeing and extremely inattentive. During the aftermath of a heated and major occurrence, the intentional head butt, he had called a time out. He quickly called a time in too fast and at the wrong time, which many people missed and Cortez did not position himself between the fighters properly, based on what was actually happening in the ring, and because he was inattentive he did not prevent an unfair advantage from happening nor did he tell Ortiz, stop apologizing and get your hands up this fight is on. You cannot call time in at the speed of light while one guy is on a kissing, apology trip with his hands down.

    It is like setting up a foul like hitting on the break because the referee does not know what he is doing anymore. Joe has shown that quite a bit over the years.
    You take two boxers, you break them by saying stop punching break clean, then at the speed of light you jump back and yell GO, one guy sucker punches the other and everyone says, HE SAID GO. It is not just being in the wrong position which can happen to any referee where you miss a low blow, this situation is Joe is talking to someone, his head is turned, his mouth is open and he is not paying attention. Ortiz created the opening with an unaware ass kissing mutt attitude,
    Floyd the always thug, mugged him. Then Oritz quit to me, the welterweight champion of the world did not even try to get up, show him films of Tony DeMarco getting up 5000 times against Virgil Akins to show him what real balls is on a champ.

    The referee must take control in the aftermath of a heated moment like that, if I saw Ortiz with his hands down while the time out I had called was still in existence, stepped between them to separate them at full arms length and tell them both to keep it clean, then tell them to box when they were both ready.

    Why not let a guy get hung up on the ropes, with his arms pinned, and say time in go, and let the other guy blast away. Extreme example but there was just an extreme intentional foul attempted and a point deducted. Take control because any ref would know, that the other fighter is going to try to retaliate. You think then is a good time to turn your head away and let them fight like Walcott did while refereeing Ali and Liston II? This fiasco was just as bad as far as the referee's inattentive focus on his job. His face was so shocked he did not even know the left hook landed first. Sorry, it just truly contributed to the fiasco.

    Cortez with his mouth agape hanging wide open in shocked disbelief was in another world, not watching the boxers and talking to someone at ringside. He was too far way, and called time in too quick while one guy had his hands down.

    Then Floyd threw the shots as fast as possible before Ortiz had his hands up. Legal? Yeah, but cheap shots against a fool with the help of a referee too far away who lost control and gave one boxer an unfair advantage. It was shades of Joe Cortez leaving another boxer on the deck bleeding and injured without any attention while Joe decides to take a little walk and goes and gets in discussions at ringside with no idea what is going on behind him or on the side of him.

    As to Ortiz, he did not get hit any kind of Julian Jackson, Rubin Carter, Hatchet man Sheppard shots, he definitely could have gotten up or tried. He was happy to be out of it and could not land on Floyd the way he wanted and acted so glad to be out of the action it was obvious to any fighter or boxing fan who saw him quit against Maidana. He said it best, "I don't deserve to get beat up like this." Kudos to him for the Berto win just like Kudos to Buster Douglas for the Tyson win.

    Then both of them acted like they were looking for the door like Montell did against Roy Jones in the DQ, and Buster did with Holyfield. I made my money, I trained hard, I tried hard but guess what it isn't working and I am not going out like Carmen Basilio against Robinson or Fullmer, I quit NOW.

    Cheap shot, legal yes, bad inattentive referee job that anyone can see COME ON give me a break, just look at it, that's the way to do it????

    Ortiz's lack of mental toughness in a title fight blows my mind, "I'm sorry", ok you're sorry, got it. "I am still soooooooo sorry," uhhh ok, got it, " I'm Elmer Fudd
    wellly welly sowwy, give me a hug kiss," my hands are down, see they are all the way down, I trust you soooo much, pwease don't hit me now. Oh, Oh, he hit me after the wef who was standing far away wasn't looking,

    I know what I will do, I will cwy, "Hey wef, he HIT ME," do you all like the way I turned my head to tell on Floyd, ooops he hit me again, I think I will quit now. Is it all over? It is? Now, thank you for hitting me with my hands down while I was apologizing,
    give me a big hug and tell me everything is going to be ok now,

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Anybody who is that happy when a fight ends like that was just waiting for his way out (as evidenced by his bunny-hop head butt).
    His demeanor and the head butt made it was clear to me that although Ortiz believed and intended to put up his best efforts in that fight, he never truly thought he would win.
    What a joke.
    I saw no signs that Ortiz was anywhere close to winning this fight.
    PBF took whatever was landed on him very well.
    Even Ortiz's 15 extra pounds didn't seem to matter at all in there or at least he wasn't smart enough to use his advantage wisely anyway.

    I hate Cortez like the next guy but this was all Ortiz's fault.
    Cortez started the action & Ortiz is the idiot hippie amateur who decided on the extra hug.
    It's not Cortez' job to break up a love fest.
    Yeah he was looking away at the time keeper when it all went down but that should have been a safe time to do so as many refs do after a break.
    Sure he did other things wrong in there and who knows why he was looking away for so long but that's another story.
    Ultimately Ortiz got what he deserved & believe me he is as happy now as he was then when it was all over.

    We expect PBF to be classless but Merchant stooped to his level last night.
    His retort wasn't funny to me and I thought it was sad and desperate to watch.
    He could have gone about a reply a in much more professional and clever way but chose not to.
    He obviously doesn't care about his job so why should I?

    Canelo is always going to make people a little nervous in there with his no-so-busy style but I had no doubt in my mind that he would ultimately break down Gomez and take him out.
    It was stopped a bit early but the end was certainly nearing.

    Leave it to Morales to just about save the card and remind people what boxing is really about.
    Meanwhile in Ireland Tyson Fury put up another fun fight to watch that torched both jokes of the USA's main events.

    Thank god Mosley and never fought Ortiz or we might have seen 2 men in a gay soft porn in that ring.
    It's a fucking fight, not a date. WTF?!

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Man there is no site like this one when there is activity ... great to see the old gang still kicking !!!

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    I wondered what was the motivation for Mayweather's outburst with Merchant. A guy who normally, and rather easily, out maneuvers the press was flummoxed. Was the dichotomy of the manufactured "Money" Mayweather and the "real" charitable Floyd jeopardized by his cheap shot ending?

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    No one blames Cortez for the KO, but he should be blamed for calling a time in too quickly, while being in the wrong position without being remotely vigilant, or even recognizing whether fan man was in the ring with them, whether Ortiz's trunks fell to his knees or whether Ortiz's hands were behind his back in handcuffs while Joe was busy with his head turned in another world.

    Cortez's head was turned talking to someone else without watching the fighters at a crucial moment. I totally understand Floyd's lightning fast strike, a la a Tyson finish but it absolutely looked like a cheap shot which many great champs would not have done. Like Joe Frazier letting Joe Bugner get up from the lower rope strand without hitting him, or Floyd Patterson never taking an unfair advantage, it is called sportsmanship. It was a legal two shots but taken without any referee in there, it might as well have been with the houselights out, then come on, and Ortiz is on the deck.

    Ortiz could have gotten up, it did not look like he wanted to. I think the proof of that is how grateful he was to Floyd for getting him out of there so he would not have to earn his money anymore. He tried the best he could like Hatton did, but instead of viciously punching Floyd in his left arm and shoulder like they all should, or loop punches around his glove, they all try conventional straight punching against a guy that covers up and pot shots you.

    Someone someday will start punching those average arms of his on the side and hit his shoulder all night long until his jab is gone. I do not know what films these opponents watch of Floyd, they must turn off the TV and watch soap operas instead because no one is training on how to beat him down.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round


  21. #231
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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Hasn’t Cortez been interviewed after the fight? That’s normal in cases like. Just remember Russell Mora after Mares vs. Agbeko. By the way be happy Mora wasn’t refereeing. If he was, Mayweather would probably be penalized for the headbut, and Ortiz would’ve been declared winner for intentional foul.
    Last edited by Theo Netherland; 09-18-2011 at 03:33 PM.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    I also have watched it many times and anyone has their right to their take on it all and to color it any way you want also. A major title fight was ruined for the fans who know what a title fight is. Steve Kim from Max Boxing warned us all ahead of time that Cortez with his HORRIBLE track record was going to ruin this fight somehow, someway. He did. Ortiz showed glaring transparent retro glimpses into the mindset that existed for him in the Maidana fight. Frank Baltazar called it and he was right.

    Cortez's handling of the final moments were inexcusable, inept refereeing and extremely inattentive. During the aftermath of a heated and major occurrence, the intentional head butt, he had called a time out. He quickly called a time in too fast and at the wrong time, which many people missed and Cortez did not position himself between the fighters properly, based on what was actually happening in the ring, and because he was inattentive he did not prevent an unfair advantage from happening nor did he tell Ortiz, stop apologizing and get your hands up this fight is on. You cannot call time in at the speed of light while one guy is on a kissing, apology trip with his hands down.

    It is like setting up a foul like hitting on the break because the referee does not know what he is doing anymore. Joe has shown that quite a bit over the years.
    You take two boxers, you break them by saying stop punching break clean, then at the speed of light you jump back and yell GO, one guy sucker punches the other and everyone says, HE SAID GO. It is not just being in the wrong position which can happen to any referee where you miss a low blow, this situation is Joe is talking to someone, his head is turned, his mouth is open and he is not paying attention. Ortiz created the opening with an unaware ass kissing mutt attitude,
    Floyd the always thug, mugged him. Then Oritz quit to me, the welterweight champion of the world did not even try to get up, show him films of Tony DeMarco getting up 5000 times against Virgil Akins to show him what real balls is on a champ.

    The referee must take control in the aftermath of a heated moment like that, if I saw Ortiz with his hands down while the time out I had called was still in existence, stepped between them to separate them at full arms length and tell them both to keep it clean, then tell them to box when they were both ready.

    Why not let a guy get hung up on the ropes, with his arms pinned, and say time in go, and let the other guy blast away. Extreme example but there was just an extreme intentional foul attempted and a point deducted. Take control because any ref would know, that the other fighter is going to try to retaliate. You think then is a good time to turn your head away and let them fight like Walcott did while refereeing Ali and Liston II? This fiasco was just as bad as far as the referee's inattentive focus on his job. His face was so shocked he did not even know the left hook landed first. Sorry, it just truly contributed to the fiasco.

    Cortez with his mouth agape hanging wide open in shocked disbelief was in another world, not watching the boxers and talking to someone at ringside. He was too far way, and called time in too quick while one guy had his hands down.

    Then Floyd threw the shots as fast as possible before Ortiz had his hands up. Legal? Yeah, but cheap shots against a fool with the help of a referee too far away who lost control and gave one boxer an unfair advantage. It was shades of Joe Cortez leaving another boxer on the deck bleeding and injured without any attention while Joe decides to take a little walk and goes and gets in discussions at ringside with no idea what is going on behind him or on the side of him.

    As to Ortiz, he did not get hit any kind of Julian Jackson, Rubin Carter, Hatchet man Sheppard shots, he definitely could have gotten up or tried. He was happy to be out of it and could not land on Floyd the way he wanted and acted so glad to be out of the action it was obvious to any fighter or boxing fan who saw him quit against Maidana. He said it best, "I don't deserve to get beat up like this." Kudos to him for the Berto win just like Kudos to Buster Douglas for the Tyson win.

    Then both of them acted like they were looking for the door like Montell did against Roy Jones in the DQ, and Buster did with Holyfield. I made my money, I trained hard, I tried hard but guess what it isn't working and I am not going out like Carmen Basilio against Robinson or Fullmer, I quit NOW.

    Cheap shot, legal yes, bad inattentive referee job that anyone can see COME ON give me a break, just look at it, that's the way to do it????

    Ortiz's lack of mental toughness in a title fight blows my mind, "I'm sorry", ok you're sorry, got it. "I am still soooooooo sorry," uhhh ok, got it, " I'm Elmer Fudd
    wellly welly sowwy, give me a hug kiss," my hands are down, see they are all the way down, I trust you soooo much, pwease don't hit me now. Oh, Oh, he hit me after the wef who was standing far away wasn't looking,

    I know what I will do, I will cwy, "Hey wef, he HIT ME," do you all like the way I turned my head to tell on Floyd, ooops he hit me again, I think I will quit now. Is it all over? It is? Now, thank you for hitting me with my hands down while I was apologizing,
    give me a big hug and tell me everything is going to be ok now.
    Well said, Ron! I appreciate your spot-on observations. Like you said, many did not hear the command to box on and, if we missed it, perhaps Ortiz missed it, too, in the midst of his over-effusive appologies.

    One other thing: I found it strange to see how okay Ortiz was with the ending. I don't know if he was simply concussed or what. However, it didn't bode well for him, as far as demonstrating a fighting spirit, as you alluded to in your commentary.

    On a closed boxing discussion board on Facebook, where I'd posted my wife's and my comments as seen here, someone pointed out that I clearly had something against Floyd Mayweather, and it was clouding my judgment of him in this fight. No doubt, I dislike Mayweather's hubris, conduct, and demeanor; I simply cannot abide his behaviors in or out of the ring. Gifted? Yes, definitely. Possessing great character and class? Absolutely not. I hope he decides at some point soon to take a step up in opposition -- as he's asked many of his opponents to do so in facing him -- and that, in turn, they hand him his head and teach him some much needed humility. Just my two cents.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    I hadn't read anything on the fight all night, downloaded the entire card and just finished watching it,

    I really don't know what to say, I'll try,

    Mayweather is a little slimy piece of dog shit, what a disgraceful human being, and I completely disagree with anyone claiming that Larry Merchant was out of line, he handled the situation beautifully in my opinion, he did not get rattled by Mayweathers complete aggressive and ghetto behavior,

    can you imagine Max Kellerman in that situation? he would have a heart attack, Larry said what he had to say and moved on, if anything, Mayweather knew what he did was wrong which is why he was so defensive and touchy over simple questions, at the time that he blew up, Larry had already moved on from the cheap shot subject,

    Ortiz is too nice for this sport, but I disagree that he was getting discouraged or wanted to quit, the headbutt was from pure excitement that he had Floyd on the ropes in some distress and he immediately knew it was very wrong hence the apology, sure he was being cracked with right hand after right hand (the reason Floyd took this fight, after seeing tapes of Maidana and Peterson and Berto land right hands at will) but there were a lot of rounds to go and what would have happened down the stretch is a mystery,

    the knockout seemed legit, Ortiz was caught unsuspecting, wide open and didn't see either punch coming,

    that fight left a horrible taste in my mouth, I am so glad I listened to the posters here and decided to not waste money on this fight, thanks to the CBZ for that.

    one more thing I almost forgot to comment on,

    Cortez needs to retire or be retired, I will not watch fights that he referee's anymore
    Last edited by prototypeofamodernmadman; 09-18-2011 at 04:06 PM.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    My take on Mayweather-Ortiz
    By Tom Donelson/CBZ

    This fight was a measure of how great Floyd Mayweather still was and Victor Ortiz’s job was to test the mantle of Mayweather’s invincibility. The buzz from many pundits that Ortiz had a chance and much was questioned about Mayweather’s age and 16 months vacation from the ring. The universal consensus was that Mayweather would win but Ortiz may have been his toughest competitor in a while. CNNSI.com Chris Mannix summed up conventional wisdom, “Now, the fight: I'm picking Mayweather, by unanimous decision. Ortiz is good. When you factor in his age (24) and size, he is probably the best opponent Mayweather has faced since Oscar De La Hoya. But -- and this is a big but -- Floyd is just in a different class. Yes, he's older and you can't point to many welterweights who are still in their primes when they hit 34. But his conditioning, his otherworldly skill level and the lack of wear and tear on his body make him unique…Ortiz's only shot is to knock him out. That won't be easy; just hitting Mayweather hasn't been easy. But if Ortiz can work the body early, can make it an even fight over the first four rounds and make Mayweather think he needs a knockout, he has a chance.”

    Mayweather started the fight with a jab and he dodged Ortiz punches before landing a couple of body shots followed by flurry of quick hands before Ortiz backed him back. Thus the main event of the $60 PPV began. Mayweather’s quickness showed up immediately but Ortiz managed in the second round to land a solid right hook along with body shots before Mayweather countered with a right. In what was another good round, Ortiz did not back down and may have even taken the round.

    This was Ortiz high water mark as Mayweather backed Ortiz in the third round with his quick hands. Ortiz was less effective when forced to back up and Mayweather skills started to show up. Within the opening seconds of the fourth round, Mayweather landed thundering combinations and Ortiz looked befuddle like” what do I do now?” Ortiz went back to his battering style and even landed a couple of punches while Mayweather smugly signaled, “I am not hurt, I am not hurt.”

    Ortiz head butted Mayweather and this is where hell broke loose. Referee Joe Cortez deducted a point for the head butt. Ortiz tried to apologize and with his arms open as “if let’s touch gloves”, Mayweather nailed him with a right hand, sending Ortiz down. Cortes had appeared to start the fight and certainly, Mayweather could easily have waited a few more seconds to ensure that Ortiz was ready. Legally, Mayweather did nothing wrong and Ortiz did not protect himself but then would it have more sporting if Mayweather waited? Mayweather may have been irritated at the head butt and Ortiz did not protect himself when he should have and Ortiz certainly did not stay aware of his surroundings; thus he lost the fight by knockout.

    What does this mean for Mayweather? Good question for the big fight out there is Pacquaio and Mayweather has made it clear that unless he is 100 percent certain that the Pacman is a clean fighter, there will be no Pacman-Mayweather fight despite the nine figures potential. (I am not saying Pacquiao is on performance enhancing drug, but Mayweather believes him to be and even Mosley supposedly told Mayweather that he believes Pacquiao to be juiced.)

    As for Mayweather, he was typical Mayweather in the ring, calm and collected as he waited for his opportunity. Mayweather showed that at 34, he is not old just yet as his reflexes were sharp and punches accurate.

    On the undercard, Saul “Canelo” Alvarez defended his WBC light Middleweight title against the ever popular Alfonso Gomez. Alvarez began the fight with a couple of quick hard punches and a hard jab sent Gomez down at the end of the round. He continued with some good movement in the second round while nailing the body with hard combinations but in the third round, Gomez answered with jabs of his own and even landed some solid right hands. Throughout the fourth and fifth round, Gomez threw the larger volume of punches but Alvarez threw the harder punches. There were times that Gomez work rate seem to bother Alvarez.

    The sixth round saw the similar activities of the previous rounds as Gomez threw more punches and Alvarez threw the harder punches. A hard Alvarez combination trapped Gomez on the rope and before Gomez could respond; the referee stopped the fight. Gomez stated after the fight that he could have continued but it doesn’t matter if many ringside observers thought the stoppage was quick, the fight still ended in a TKO victory for Alvarez.

    Erik Morales fought fill in Pablo Cesar Cano for Tim Bradley’s vacated WBC light welterweight and during the early rounds, Cano youth and quickness allowed Cano to build up an early lead on the score cards.

    By the fourth round, Morales started to figure out his young opponent and connected on his patented right hand which opened up a cut over Cano eyes. From this point, both fighters pounded each other, a fight that benefited Morales but not before Cano managed to open a cut over Morales left eye.

    Morales’ power started to insert itself as Cano started to slow down and looked tired as Morales started to connect on combinations that rocked Cano in the ninth and tenth round. Cano managed to stay standing but with multiple cuts and shaky legs, his corner called it quits. Morales looked like an old Morales in the opening rounds but as the fight progressed, Morales managed to combat father time as he won a impressive victory.

    This leaves Tim Bradley as the odd man out since he turned down a big fight with Amir Khan and now he doesn’t even have a piece of the junior welterweight title. His only option is to fight Khan or Morales for there is no Pacquiao fight in the future. The latter may be the safer choice for an old Morales may be more vulnerable to Bradley round and brawling style whereas Khan is a young fighter hitting his peak.

    This evening saw Erik Morales recapturing a portion of his youth as he defeated a young fighter but the question remains, what happens when he fights the elites of the division? Beating Cano is one thing, beating Khan is another.

    The fighter of the evening was Mayweather and like many Mayweather fights, even in victory we are left with questions and wondering when does he finally fight Pacquaio?

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    another observation,

    could you imagine that version of Mayweather in against Pac? Pac is soo much better a fighter than Ortiz it would be a blow out.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    There is an age old adage in boxing that goes something like this, "You are never so naked as when you are standing in the ring". It's not the physical nakedness they are referring to, it's the character of a man (or a women) that's exposed. Your courage and heart and sense of fair play, and your ability or inability to handle pressure, or the propensity to resort to cowardly acts and cheat when frustrated, or a lack of character when it's time to face your actions when caught. You are never so naked a when you are standing in the ring. Ask Victor Ortiz, he got caught completely naked last night.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    didn't it seem like Cortez was in a race when administering the ten count? probably because he realized that he was slacking on the job and was trying to make up for it.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Quote Originally Posted by prototypeofamodernmadman View Post
    another observation,

    could you imagine that version of Mayweather in against Pac? Pac is soo much better a fighter than Ortiz it would be a blow out.
    Not so sure about that. I thought Mayweather looked really good. He's still got blazing fast reflexes, lightning fast hands, and beautiful defense. That's going to be tough to beat no matter who he goes up against, Pacquiao included.

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Larry Merchant -- I Probably Could NOT Have Kicked Floyd Mayweather's Butt


    http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/18/larry-.../#.TnZtXnNwqX0

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    Re: Mayweather -Ortiz/ Round By Round

    Im not sure if ti was a stylist change, age, Ortiz making him look better than he actually is or all of the above but I've never seen Mayweather so flatfooted before, he didn't move much, his head didn't move much, again, this could be due to the opponent or Mayweather wanting to be more aggressive and exciting,

    and yes, I got a little carried away in my blowout comment, wishful thinking getting the best of me.

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