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Thread: Mayweather-Ortiz, Sept 17th

  1. #31
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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    Ortiz is just hot stock & this is just all an exercise of splitting flea hairs here.

    PBF is simply passing the time with fights he knows he can win without weathering himself whatsoever, well knowing that the years of Manny's style are taking their toll.
    He may take his chance on Pac one day when he sees he's sufficiently softened up & hopefully still unbeaten, or maybe he won't bother.

    I hope all of this just boils down to PBF just tuning himself up for Pac but certainly I wouldn't hold my breath. I know this is all just a game of a careless gambling to PBF.

    Careless because it's obvious that he truly does not care if he fights Pac or not.

    It's also careless mainly because he is leaving the real foundation of his legacy up to chance with whatever may happen to Pac out there swinging in the balance.

    There are no guarantees in life.

    Pac could retire, get upset by someone else or even have an injury that forces him out whether boxing-related or just unfortunate life circumstances. Something could happen just as easily to PBF.

    Boxing has enough reasons why it becomes increasingly laughable with each passing year and the Pac/PBF mess did no favors to the sport. PBF is still laughing all of the way to the bank and the fans are still not getting what they really want.

  2. #32
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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    May has selected better available Welters.
    Sharmba Mitchell, Ricky Hatton and JMM are better available welters than Cotto, Clottey and Margaritto? I don't count Hatton at 147 because Pac fought him at his preferred and lineal title holding weight of 140.

    I don't see how the JMM argument can be considered a sloppy second in the context of the Pac JMM rivalry.

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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    Quote Originally Posted by doomeddisciple View Post
    Sharmba Mitchell, Ricky Hatton and JMM are better available welters than Cotto, Clottey and Margaritto? I don't count Hatton at 147 because Pac fought him at his preferred and lineal title holding weight of 140.

    I don't see how the JMM argument can be considered a sloppy second in the context of the Pac JMM rivalry.
    The article is talking about the last two years since the May "retirement." Two of those fights were while Pac was still at 130.

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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    Paq will face Ortiz next spring,

    WKS

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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    He aint gonna beat Vic Ortiz.

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    Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Announced - 9/17/11

    we have Vegas odds for the fight already;

    Floyd Mayweather Jr -700
    Victor Ortiz +500

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    Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Announced - 9/17/11

    FLoyd will take ORtiz belt, probably by stoppage,>>>>>


    Ko artist that floyd is that is the likely outcome?

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    Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Announced - 9/17/11

    Quote Originally Posted by jlupi View Post
    FLoyd will take ORtiz belt, probably by stoppage,>>>>>


    Ko artist that floyd is that is the likely outcome?
    Against guys who come forward with bad footwork and no defense?

    See Gatti.

    Nuff' said. This fight will be a train wreck.

  9. #39
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    Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Announced - 9/17/11

    Floyd beat up a very shopworn Gatti who had nothing to offer, (Oscar TKO'd Arturo four years earlier).

    Vic has improved and is hungry and knows he has a huge opportunity in front of him, beating Floyd would be the upset of the year, put him on the map and erase any doubts from the Maidana fight.

    I am not saying he will win, but he will come to win, and if he can withstand Floyd's counters early can make a fight of it, he's young, a southpaw and has enough speed and power to trouble Floyd.
    (Even light hitting DeMarcus Corley hurt Floyd)

    Yes Vic leaves very big openings coming in, (Floyd would never have taken the fight if he didn't think it would be easy), but Vics also riding a big high from his upset win
    and I believe Floyd was mainly scouting Berto at the fight as he was expected to win, and would have been a less risky opponent..IMO.
    Last edited by TDKO; 06-11-2011 at 05:20 PM.

  10. #40
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    Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Announced - 9/17/11

    Quote Originally Posted by TDKO View Post
    Floyd beat up a very shopworn Gatti who had nothing to offer, (Oscar TKO'd Arturo four years earlier).

    Vic has improved and is hungry and knows he has a huge opportunity in front of him, beating Floyd would be the upset of the year, put him on the map and erase any doubts from the Maidana fight.

    I am not saying he will win, but he will come to win, and if he can withstand Floyd's counters early can make a fight of it, he's young, a southpaw and has enough speed and power to trouble Floyd.
    (Even light hitting DeMarcus Corley hurt Floyd)

    Yes Vic leaves very big openings coming in, (Floyd would never have taken the fight if he didn't think it would be easy), but Vics also riding a big high from his upset win
    and I believe Floyd was mainly scouting Berto at the fight as he was expected to win, and would have been a less risky opponent..IMO.
    It doesn't matter how hungry he is. It doesn't matter how improved he is. You saw him stand in with Berto - a guy who clearly wasn't ready to fight.

    He won't find that with Floyd. And if you think Floyd wont ruin him with the right hand like Berto should have, think again. Berto found that right hand every time he let it go.

    Ortiz is the perfect fight. Limited skill set. Not very quick. Not great footwork. Decent handspeed at best and he fights going forward. Floyd's boxing IQ will eat him up. Quick feet, knows how to circle and very few have gotten to him, and Ortiz won't either - this fight won't look much different then the Gatti debacle.

    You can hate Floyd, and everyone knows how this fight is going to go down - If you don't got it, you just don't got it. Ortiz don't got it - not against Floyd.

  11. #41
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    Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Announced - 9/17/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurant View Post
    It doesn't matter how hungry he is. It doesn't matter how improved he is. You saw him stand in with Berto - a guy who clearly wasn't ready to fight.

    He won't find that with Floyd. And if you think Floyd wont ruin him with the right hand like Berto should have, think again. Berto found that right hand every time he let it go.

    Ortiz is the perfect fight. Limited skill set. Not very quick. Not great footwork. Decent handspeed at best and he fights going forward. Floyd's boxing IQ will eat him up. Quick feet, knows how to circle and very few have gotten to him, and Ortiz won't either - this fight won't look much different then the Gatti debacle.

    You can hate Floyd, and everyone knows how this fight is going to go down - If you don't got it, you just don't got it. Ortiz don't got it - not against Floyd.
    Exactly. "Hunger' don't mean much if your opponent is in another league skill-wise. There are tons of journeyman who fight with all of their heart and soul everytime they fight . .doesn't make them contenders.
    If Ortiz had some granite chin, then you could even make a reasonable claim that he could wear Floyd out, but given that's a WEAKNESS, I mean, he's going to be getting nailed by counters and get clueless and frustrated in there. He had a willing dance partner vs Berto who was too fatigued to move and it was just a toe-to-toe, inside battle. Floyd will not oblige Ortiz in that manner and he surely won't get gassed after 2 rounds like Berto did.

  12. #42
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    Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Announced - 9/17/11

    I think most would say Kostya Tszu is at a different level skill wise then Ricky Hatton however the youth and hunger of Hatton overcame the skill of Tszu to win...

    (ya ya, Kostya didn't adjust to the time change and was past it...)

    I am not a Hatton fan btw and have lots of respect for Tszu

    Vic might get vaporized early, yes it's possible, but to repeat myself, IFFFFF he can take Floyd's counter right early he can make an exciting fight of it.

    Floyd vs Berto would have been another snooze fest......

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    Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Announced 9/17/11

    Quote Originally Posted by diggity View Post
    PBF past it & stale? Because he got tagged with 1 lucky shot from Mosley?
    .
    No, he is past it because he is past it. Not saying he's a dud now; still good, just not the same fighter he used to be. Not as sharp or as good on his feet. Still make him favorite vs. Ortoz, but would make him a heavy favourite a few years ago.

  14. #44
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    Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Announced 9/17/11

    Yeah he's big young and powerful. But also relatively crude. Floyd should take this. Floyd is getting on in years but to his credit he has kept himself consistently in great condition. He hasn't exactly endured many wars in his career. He is conservative, efficient, and technical. All qualities that allow fighters to perform in their later years.

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    Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Announced - 9/17/11

    I'd like to believe based on his last performance that Ortiz will at least go down swinging & make things a little interesting, but I think it'll end up looking like every other forgettable PBF fight.

  16. #46
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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    MW says on fighthype there will not be a lot of "moving around" He is going to be aggressive. interesting if true

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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold


  18. #48
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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    And this clip doesn't quite scream "confidence" from Ortiz to me...

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6713168

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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    Quote Originally Posted by diggity View Post
    And this clip doesn't quite scream "confidence" from Ortiz to me...

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6713168
    Gotta' factor in just how well coached he's been with media. Dude is aiming for apple pie interviews a la classic Oscar.

  20. #50
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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    True & factored, just still a bit too carefree for a guy getting his shot at the best fighter in the world for my taste.
    Reminds me of a spoiled rich kid talking casually about the Mercedes he's getting as his first car.

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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    Quote Originally Posted by diggity View Post
    Very uncomfortable to watch.

    Does anyone else think that Mayweather looks a little worn out?

  22. #52
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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    Kid,

    My first thought when I watched this was that Floyd looked older, and yes a bit worn

    and without the usual listless energy he exhibits in most interviews.

    However he could have been out late the night before, or maybe his personal life has

    taken a toll....(His bell will Toll soon enough)

    RJJ had a similar look of fatigue and lack of his usual supreme confidence before the

    1st Tarver fight, but those reasons have already been washed rinsed and dried here.

    It's really hard to extrapolate a lot from an interview, in the ring is where it will happen

    anyways, but to my eyes, there was a noticeable difference in Floyd.

  23. #53
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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    PBF is getting older and along with his desire/hunger to be a champion are intangibles in this fight. Ortiz brings fire, youth, and passion, but will he have enough skill? On paper this is like PBF-Gatti 2011.... but Gatti had a better chin. Floyd and Manny need to handle their business before both either become bored, upsetted, or irrelevant because of too much time. You have to strike when the iron is hot.... the public gets bored easily in the information era.

  24. #54
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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Dynamite View Post
    Very uncomfortable to watch.

    Does anyone else think that Mayweather looks a little worn out?
    Glad you brought that up.
    I meant to comment on that exact thing when I posted this.
    Kind of spent-sounding overall in a strange way.

    TDKO hit the comparisons right on the on the nose.
    I think it's the sound/appearance of someone approaching the end of their career (whether they realize it or not).

    Interesting....

  25. #55
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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    Dig,

    You may be right. However, Pac didn't look to stellar in a win over Mosley, who admitted halfway through the fight, he didn't want to fight anymore.

    This fight to me, may be the biggest fight on the planet right now, but it's losing it's appeal more and more. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about it. Make the fight. Period.

    Mayweather picked an easy opponent (he is going to wreck Ortiz) and Pacman picked JMM for a reason which isn't quite clear to me yet considering how lackluster his game was against Shane. If you question the drive, question them both. But Pac is in a lot more danger lacking motivation in that fight than Mayweather is. I just never see anyone question that. I do.

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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    I'm with you guys as regards PBF having aged. He no longer has that fresh faced youthful look. He is looking like a man in his mid 30s, as he should, obviously.

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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    That's what I thought as well when I saw him, like some spark has gone. He looks worn out. And this is a speed & reflex based fighter with not the best chin! Reminds me of RJJ in so many ways.

    I still think Ortiz is safe for him, but maybe he's now on the downward slope.

    Maybe Mayweather looks the way he does because his bank account is not what it should be and with all his mounting legal and financial problems he's being made to fight on. That would take it's toll on a man.

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    Re: Mayweather Picks Ortiz: Showing Us More Than Manny? by Cliff Rold

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurant View Post
    Dig,

    You may be right. However, Pac didn't look to stellar in a win over Mosley, who admitted halfway through the fight, he didn't want to fight anymore.
    This fight to me, may be the biggest fight on the planet right now, but it's losing it's appeal more and more. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about it. Make the fight. Period.
    Mayweather picked an easy opponent (he is going to wreck Ortiz) and Pacman picked JMM for a reason which isn't quite clear to me yet considering how lackluster his game was against Shane. If you question the drive, question them both. But Pac is in a lot more danger lacking motivation in that fight than Mayweather is. I just never see anyone question that. I do.
    Pac's not getting any younger either but he's at least fighting whereas PBF is sitting around and rusting.
    With JMM, I think Pac chose a fight that he can get up for.
    I don't think even Pac believed Mosley was going to be much of a threat.
    Pac fights best when he is in danger and Mosley posed very little threat in that fight at all.
    Mosley just about lulled him into believing he was in a sparring session.

    Pac is going to hit the wall as all fighters do, but with all factors considered I can certainly give him a pass on the lackluster Mosley fight.
    He may not have shined but he still made it look easy as opposed to getting by with a close decision.

    Getting back to the topic at hand....PBF could have had a long gray beard and a cane in that Kenny interview and I think he still puts a whooping on Ortiz.
    It could have been as simple as PBF having a long day or night but the observation of his behavior is still interesting to me because his demeanor is unlike what we know of him, and we all see it apparently.

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    Re: Morales-Matthysse on PBF-Ortiz card

    Fark, along with the Saul Alvarez fight. Going to be a cracker card!

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