Boxing's Single Biggest Problem... by GorDoom

[GorDoom]

Boxing has had a litany of endemic ills that has been tearing the sport asunder for decades. Greed pig promoters who care only about $$$ & not the development of the sport. Outrageous, unworthy, overpriced, PPV's. Bad match ups, big fights never coming to fruition, basically a media black out & an assortment of other mistakes & neglects that have inevitably crippled boxing in the sporting public's view.

Then there's the UFC/MMA factor. This is a sport that has not only overtaken boxing but left it in the dust both with the media & young sports fans. Boxing, like horse racing is now an "Old Guy" sport populated by geezers living in the past & I'm including myself in this group. MMA is fresh, hip & attracts the young music & movie stars that help create the sports buzz. Boxing?

'Nuff said...

But all that is by no means boxing's biggest problem. What it boils down to is an incredible LACK of talent. Think about it: Not one boxing super star has been developed since 2000. Floyd & Pac? They won their first world titles in '97 & '98 respectively. Shane, Roy, Marquez, Hop etc. are all 90's & in Roy's & Hop's cases 80's fighters! Hell, we had a PPV last week featuring a fighter, Hopkins, from the freakin' 80's!

What the hell is up with that?

Not one fighter has been developed in the last almost 12 years that can fill an arena in the United States. That's pathetic. No sport can survive without regular infusions of young, vital, talent. Even Mexico has dried up. Going back almost 60 years to N.B.A. bantam champ, Raul "Raton" Macias Mexico has supplied a steady unending stream of fly's, banties & feathers who have developed into not only contenders but many champions & HOFers.

In my estimation Mexico has put out the BEST fighters of the last 60 years but not anymore... The last Mexican fighters to emerge & develop into champions was the Marquez brothers & again, 90's fighters. This isn't just happening in Mexico, it's happening all over the world. I talk to our correspondents in Latin America, Europe & the Far east & they all tell me the SAME thing: Young fighters want to go into MMA & have no interest in boxing because they see it as a dead sport & todays youth seem to suffer from attention deficit.

To today's youth a great fight like say Leonard-Hearns I would be a complete snore. Why? Simply because it takes too long. UFC fights are over quickly. Sitting around for 13 rounds is just too fucking boring when all you know is short attention span theatre.

10 years ago in an editorial I wrote: "Boxing is dead in America,, you just don't realize it yet..."

I can feel the rumbles. what about Pac & Floyd? When they fight it will revitalize the sport!

Really?

A this point they are both past their primes & should be on the 3rd match of a trilogy. Instead we got squa-doosh... & if & when they fight, it's one night. Then what? There is NOBODY to fill the gaping void...

GorDoom

[Julian Jackson]

Sadly you are dead right Gor.

[Every Mother's Fear]

Yeah, he is. I hadn't thought about it before but he's absolutely right. Other than Floyd and Manny there is nothing. No sport can survive without new talent and after the way Gor laid it out I can see it's practically a miracle that boxing still exists. How could the powers that be in boxing be so indifferent to the sport's health?

EMF

[apollack]

True. However, I am more of an optimist. Boxing is like nature. It has cycles. So we are in a down cycle. But nature replenishes itself, eventually. There have still been some great fights in boxing over the last decade, if you watch every division. There are some developing fighters who I like to watch. Brandon Rios, Mikey Garcia. Donaire is hot right now. Gamboa is fun to watch. So is Maidana. Andre Ward is very talented. Froch can fight. Bradley, Khan, Bute, Angulo, Alvarez, Povetkin, Matirosyan. Some Olympians are developing and moving along. All is not lost. But I get the point that there does not yet appear to be a superstar on the horizon. Perhaps that is due to parity as much as anything. There are a lot of solid fighters from all over the world fighting now.

[GorDoom]

It's not parity, Adam, it's disinterest. There has ALWAYS been a lot of solid fights around the world. Parity in no way explains it... All the fighters & prospects are okay but not one of them jumps out at you as a potential super star, not a single one... Donaire may be hot right now but does anybody seriously believe he's going to develop into a great fighter? There's a lot of wishful hoping but the reality is this is not a cycle. Sooner or later everything runs it's course. Boxing like Horse Racing, once along with baseball THE major sports in this country, are simply not viable anymore & are hanging on by the skin of their teeth.

There isn't going to be a revival. We're not even going to get a movie like, "Rocky" to spark interest. Even Hollywood has moved on despite boxing's great track record for sports movies. I'll bet my bottom dollar - & it's already begun - in the future it will be MMA movies, not boxing.

Get used to it, boys, this is the new reality in regards to boxing.

Selah...

GorDoom

[apollack]

You might very well be correct. What will be will be. We'll see.

[Crold1]

Boxing has had a litany of endemic ills that has been tearing the sport asunder for decades. Greed pig promoters who care only about $$$ & not the development of the sport. Outrageous, unworthy, overpriced, PPV's. Bad match ups, big fights never coming to fruition, basically a media black out & an assortment of other mistakes & neglects that have inevitably crippled boxing in the sporting public's view.

Then there's the UFC/MMA factor. This is a sport that has not only overtaken boxing but left it in the dust both with the media & young sports fans. Boxing, like horse racing is now an "Old Guy" sport populated by geezers living in the past & I'm including myself in this group. MMA is fresh, hip & attracts the young music & movie stars that help create the sports buzz. Boxing?

'Nuff said...

But all that is by no means boxing's biggest problem. What it boils down to is an incredible LACK of talent. Think about it: Not one boxing super star has been developed since 2000. Floyd & Pac? They won their first world titles in '97 & '98 respectively. Shane, Roy, Marquez, Hop etc. are all 90's & in Roy's & Hop's cases 80's fighters! Hell, we had a PPV last week featuring a fighter, Hopkins, from the freakin' 80's!

What the hell is up with that?

Not one fighter has been developed in the last almost 12 years that can fill an arena in the United States. That's pathetic. No sport can survive without regular infusions of young, vital, talent. Even Mexico has dried up. Going back almost 60 years to N.B.A. bantam champ, Raul "Raton" Macias Mexico has supplied a steady unending stream of fly's, banties & feathers who have developed into not only contenders but many champions & HOFers.

In my estimation Mexico has put out the BEST fighters of the last 60 years but not anymore... The last Mexican fighters to emerge & develop into champions was the Marquez brothers & again, 90's fighters. This isn't just happening in Mexico, it's happening all over the world. I talk to our correspondents in Latin America, Europe & the Far east & they all tell me the SAME thing: Young fighters want to go into MMA & have no interest in boxing because they see it as a dead sport & todays youth seem to suffer from attention deficit.

To today's youth a great fight like say Leonard-Hearns I would be a complete snore. Why? Simply because it takes too long. UFC fights are over quickly. Sitting around for 13 rounds is just too fucking boring when all you know is short attention span theatre.

10 years ago in an editorial I wrote: "Boxing is dead in America,, you just don't realize it yet..."

I can feel the rumbles. what about Pac & Floyd? When they fight it will revitalize the sport!

Really?

A this point they are both past their primes & should be on the 3rd match of a trilogy. Instead we got squa-doosh... & if & when they fight, it's one night. Then what? There is NOBODY to fill the gaping void...

GorDoom

Bucket:

All due respect my friend but some of this just doesn't ring true (even if too much does). Miguel Cotto puts butts in seats, a 00s development, and sells PPV. Pacquiao's drawing was ENTIRELY a piece of the 2000s. So what he won a belt in the late 90s, at Flyweight, in Thailand. That meant jack in the U.S. He was a late sub in a title fight at 122 and exploded from there, still only like 22 years old. Floyd won a belt in 1998 but his development and growth as a star was also mostly in the 00s. People were saying he could never draw.

As to no one filling the void, they said the same about when Oscar left...and then we got two guys who could do a consistent 1 million buys a pop instead of just one. It's bleak, but you're ignoring/strongly manuevering some of the facts to fit your argument.

[JaKob]

The popularity and attention that mayweather and pacquaio haved attained isn't indicative of how STRONG boxing is... but instead how weak and sad the current state of affairs is. The fans of the sport cling onto what few truly great boxers exist.

[Overhand_Right]

It doesn't matter if Mayweather and Pac found fame in the 00s, Gor is still correct. These guys first put on gloves in the early 90s if not the late 80s. Where is the new talent coming from?

Ancient guys like Arum & King protecting their interests and lining their pockets and having zero interest in the good of the sport hurt it badly in the 90s and stopped some major fights happening. The sanctioning bodies with their zero interest in the good of the sport have always been corrupt but in the last decade, starting in 2001 with the introduction of the WBA's 'super belt' policy, the floodgates of cheap easy alphabet titles just seemed to open up. These ancient crooks create belt after belt like a factory, divide each belt into interims, diamonds, silver, and every crappy protected boxer has a belt and doesn't have to engage in real fights. The greed and mass corruption has marginalised the sport and now the fanbase is small, we're suffering, and the crooks who did this are too old to care about any longterm future.

[JLP 6]

All it takes is one guy to come in and bang heads and boxing will be right back up there. Pacquaio is the guy now, but since he is sooooo good is not as interesting. If him and whatshisname would lock up that fight itself would make MAA whatever look like a school fight as far a interest.

Boxing is and an will always be p4p, the boss. just be patient.

For me, I could careless if anybody outside the core old and young rugged men like this sport. Give me Corrales-Castillio, Gatti-Ward, brew, and a good knowledgable crew to talk with and I am good.

[hagler04]

Bucket:

All due respect my friend but some of this just doesn't ring true (even if too much does). Miguel Cotto puts butts in seats, a 00s development, and sells PPV. Pacquiao's drawing was ENTIRELY a piece of the 2000s. So what he won a belt in the late 90s, at Flyweight, in Thailand. That meant jack in the U.S. He was a late sub in a title fight at 122 and exploded from there, still only like 22 years old. Floyd won a belt in 1998 but his development and growth as a star was also mostly in the 00s. People were saying he could never draw.

As to no one filling the void, they said the same about when Oscar left...and then we got two guys who could do a consistent 1 million buys a pop instead of just one. It's bleak, but you're ignoring/strongly manuevering some of the facts to fit your argument.

But that's not Gor's point, the fact that they are both well into their 30s and both "crossed over" following bouts with Oscar Dela Hoya, a product of an environment (boxing on network TV, strong comp for him to face regularly, great Olympic exposure) that just doesn't exist anymore
Now the talent pools are arid and its getting worse. Sure, some classes like bantam, feather, and junior welter have some decent talent and matchups possible, but compare it to other eras and its just sad . . they are only top heavy . . true depth is a thing of the past. Now with the 90s guys finally running head-first into father time, the young guys won't transcend b/c they a) Don't have any really 'big' names to put on their records and b) Simply don't have the talent around to develop themselves into fighters who don't have some gaping flaws.
That said, there are still good fights in boxing, and I take it now for what it is. To compare it to the past will leave one forever griping, but I think we should just enjoy it for what it is WHILE it still has the exposure it has. I will say this . . .I see HBO taking boxing off its network (and replacing it with a deal with UFC or some MMA upstart) at some point over the next 10 years, and then we'll really be up sh#$ creek. But by then the quality of most of the fights may be to the point where we don't really care anyway.

[Overhand_Right]

On fightnews today Michael Katsidis's trainer says they have arrived in England "to win a third world title".

Katsidis, as much as I admire him, has never won an actual world title fight.

He's won multiple 'interim title' fights, but the two times he's challenged the 'actual champ' (Casamayor and later Marquez) he was knocked out.

And yet to his team and I'm sure all of Australia and any casual observer who watches his next fight, he is vying for a 'third world championship' against a nonentity in Ricky Burns.

I think that sums up how cheap title fights are these days and one of the reasons boxing is so unattractive to the mainstream media and sports fan these days. It is indefensible.

[GorDoom]

Cliff:

Cotto? Really??? A Superstar? He's a guy with a VERY narrow celebrity. He's huge in Puerto Rico & yes he can fill The Garden On Puerto Rico Flag day as long as he has a name opponent. He's not even close to a great fighter he's so flawed. & yes Pac became a superstar in the 00's but long after he's paid his dues for years stretching back to the mid-90's. He & Floyd are 90's fighters.

Like I said not one fighter has been groomed into a superstar that wasn't fighting BEFORE Jan.1/00. Your nit picking. My point is boxing doesn't bother to develop talent & now it's reaping the lack of rewards. There is no getting around that this is a dying sport in America. Your a boxing journalist. One of the very best; for you the glass is always slight more than half full. That's your job, I appreciate & understand that but it does skew your view a little.

yer pal,

GorDoom

[jim glen]

Short attention span IS RIGHT, and it is probably this fact alone that will not allow the sport a return.

perhaps, the rebuilding of boxing, by giving it a rebirth in Blood Bath Bareknuckle, 6 - 10 rounders. Provided history and legacy, compiled with imagery along with it and talk about real greats and not hyperbole. Then maybe when the fans are sick of the gore, and the abolusionist pipe up, a return to the gloved sport might be possible!

but sadly I agree and have stated often, the sport IS Dead, just waiting to be buried!

[doomeddisciple]

The sport is fractured.

The UFC only ten years ago was routinley dismissed as "human cockfighting" and it's only through a strong brand control and a title system that people can understand, through making inroads to television via refining the Ultimate Fighter series which will culminate in a world hw title fight on free to air (Fox) television on November 13th, the same night Spike TV running another major UFC event, and putting together meaningful fights on stacked cards - Is it any wonder that these conversations about the death of boxing persist?

What has boxing done in a tangible sense in the past ten years while Dana White took the UFC's Octogon from 500 seat halls to sold out stadiums the world over?

There are still MILLIONS of people who will tune into a boxing event. MILLIONS. The sport seems healthier than ever in Europe - The Klitshcko's are getting long in the tooth now, but they've been selling out stadiums in Germany for a decade and they're not the only European fighters who've had very succesful domestic careers and big live gates. Ricky Hatton, Joe Calzaghe, Mikkel Kessler and even Lucian Bute up in Canada have provided a lot of excitment to thousands of fans in their local area.

One would have thought the Manny Paquiao example would show that while you guys are PINING for the past in the USA, your young athletes by and large are not taking up the sport and it's like you can't wrap your head around sports in a GLOBAL context.

News flash - Most of the world couldn't give a rats arse about baseball or Football in the US sense. Basketball - if it even has a season this year - has some broader appeal - But globally, soccer is the big sport. Boxing already has regional stars coming up in other parts of the world - Nonito Donaire comes to mind.

The most frustrating thing for me as a boxing fan who is of an age old enough to catch the tail end of the glory days and appreciate the history of the sport, is that it seems the boxing fraternity is sooo fractured and US centric that it can not grasp or begin to consolidate in a way that benefits everyone. Self interest - on the part of promoters, on the part of alphabet gangs, on the part of networks that broadcast the sport - Seems to be so deep down in the "too hard basket" to do anything about growing the greatest sport between two men there is.

When the big fights happen - No matter the outcome - But for example, when Ricky Hatton - In the last 5 years mind you - Comes over to fight in Vegas and brings THOUSANDS of English fans with him to sing and support him - Win or loose - You cannot deny the electricity and atmosphere and anticipation that comes through when those fights are about to fire up.

I would say that Boxing's single biggest problem is self-interest driving apathy into not taking any action to learn from over 100 years of experience the sport has.

The sport, in its purest form is alive and well and in my opinion, able to be restored, as long as the dialogue with the public is based on something they can follow and support - Not on 398572430986987654329875 world titles and sanctioning bodies and the supposed best in the business taking 3 years + to come up with excuses not to fight one another.

It took the UFC ten years to grow to now and boxing has ten times the years of experience to draw on.

[Crold1]

Cliff:

Cotto? Really??? A Superstar? He's a guy with a VERY narrow celebrity. He's huge in Puerto Rico & yes he can fill The Garden On Puerto Rico Flag day as long as he has a name opponent. He's not even close to a great fighter he's so flawed. & yes Pac became a superstar in the 00's but long after he's paid his dues for years stretching back to the mid-90's. He & Floyd are 90's fighters.

Like I said not one fighter has been groomed into a superstar that wasn't fighting BEFORE Jan.1/00. Your nit picking. My point is boxing doesn't bother to develop talent & now it's reaping the lack of rewards. There is no getting around that this is a dying sport in America. Your a boxing journalist. One of the very best; for you the glass is always slight more than half full. That's your job, I appreciate & understand that but it does skew your view a little.

yer pal,

GorDoom

Fair enough Bucket. I'll give you a name though: Brandon Rios. If he keeps winning, and keeps putting on the fights he does, he'll be the answer you're looking for in the next year or two. He's already as must see as any fighter down the pike in years. It won't stop the greater tides but he's a nice dam for the day.

[JaKob]

People always retort to the statement 'boxing is dying' with 'people having been saying that for decades'.

There is a circumstance that makes this particular decline unique. The way in which the popularity of MMA is exponentially growing. Although many hardcore boxing fans aren't going to be swayed young people most certainly are. They are growing up watching MMA. The Heavyweight Champion of boxing is no longer the baddest man on the planet in the minds of these young people. Naturally kids are going to get involved in MMA and this undoubtedly will contribute to the shrinkage of the boxing talent pool. People might be able to dispute how much trouble boxing is in now. But i doubt they will in a decade or so.

[mike casey]

Gor doesn't state an opinion here. He states a depressing truism. The problem is the chronic lack of DEPTH of talent. And one super fight between Mayweather and Pac (in the unlikely event it ever happens) isn't going to make everything nice again. Does anyone seriously believe that Hopkins would still be pushing leather at his age if he were operating in the forties or fifties? Burley and Giardello would have shown him tricks he never knew. Fullmer would have had the 'Philly Toolbox' whimpering after a round of action.

[gregbeyer]

The sport is fractured.

The UFC only ten years ago was routinley dismissed as "human cockfighting" and it's only through a strong brand control and a title system that people can understand, through making inroads to television via refining the Ultimate Fighter series which will culminate in a world hw title fight on free to air (Fox) television on November 13th, the same night Spike TV running another major UFC event, and putting together meaningful fights on stacked cards - Is it any wonder that these conversations about the death of boxing persist?

What has boxing done in a tangible sense in the past ten years while Dana White took the UFC's Octogon from 500 seat halls to sold out stadiums the world over?

There are still MILLIONS of people who will tune into a boxing event. MILLIONS. The sport seems healthier than ever in Europe - The Klitshcko's are getting long in the tooth now, but they've been selling out stadiums in Germany for a decade and they're not the only European fighters who've had very succesful domestic careers and big live gates. Ricky Hatton, Joe Calzaghe, Mikkel Kessler and even Lucian Bute up in Canada have provided a lot of excitment to thousands of fans in their local area.

One would have thought the Manny Paquiao example would show that while you guys are PINING for the past in the USA, your young athletes by and large are not taking up the sport and it's like you can't wrap your head around sports in a GLOBAL context.

News flash - Most of the world couldn't give a rats arse about baseball or Football in the US sense. Basketball - if it even has a season this year - has some broader appeal - But globally, soccer is the big sport. Boxing already has regional stars coming up in other parts of the world - Nonito Donaire comes to mind.

The most frustrating thing for me as a boxing fan who is of an age old enough to catch the tail end of the glory days and appreciate the history of the sport, is that it seems the boxing fraternity is sooo fractured and US centric that it can not grasp or begin to consolidate in a way that benefits everyone. Self interest - on the part of promoters, on the part of alphabet gangs, on the part of networks that broadcast the sport - Seems to be so deep down in the "too hard basket" to do anything about growing the greatest sport between two men there is.

When the big fights happen - No matter the outcome - But for example, when Ricky Hatton - In the last 5 years mind you - Comes over to fight in Vegas and brings THOUSANDS of English fans with him to sing and support him - Win or loose - You cannot deny the electricity and atmosphere and anticipation that comes through when those fights are about to fire up.

I would say that Boxing's single biggest problem is self-interest driving apathy into not taking any action to learn from over 100 years of experience the sport has.

The sport, in its purest form is alive and well and in my opinion, able to be restored, as long as the dialogue with the public is based on something they can follow and support - Not on 398572430986987654329875 world titles and sanctioning bodies and the supposed best in the business taking 3 years + to come up with excuses not to fight one another.

It took the UFC ten years to grow to now and boxing has ten times the years of experience to draw on.

interesting take on it doom.

i realize that there is better world wide reporting these days but i did some quick research which kind of backs your opinion up.... maybe.

6-19-1936 .... louis v schmeling .... boxrec lists 15 other fight cards world wide.

9-23-1952..... marciano v walcott .............. 13

3-8-1971.......ali v frazier.............. 8

7-2- 2011 .... klit v haye ......... 33

[jim glen]

But i doubt they will in a decade or so.

WOW! we fear it, believe it, but possible don't expect it. That is sobering.

Could boxing become almost non-existant?

[mike casey]

Boxing will never die, just as prostitution will never die. But it will certainly become an underground old whore and a shadow of its old self. The people who run it are blind. They always have been, but boxing got away with it in the day because there wasn't an alternative for the ultimate thrill. Now there are more extreme forms of fighting and thrill-seeking which will eventually lead us back to Roman times. You won't be able to smoke a cigarette or indulge in your favourite tipple, but it will be OK to kill old Maximus from next door with your 24/7 state-of-the-art interactive sword.

[GorDoom]

Painfully, fucking, true, Mike. As I said before, as ridiculous as it sounds, another big problem is that boxing just takes too long for the short attention span theatre that dominates today. Thrillah In Manila? They'd be concentrating on twittering by the 3rd round.

GorDoom

[mike casey]

Amen, brother!

[Ron Lipton]

Powerful, insightful poignant views. Spot on, so sad, but so true. Great professional boxing is still platinum to me, served up well it is still Filet Mignon compared to savage chuck hamburger.

[KOJOE90]

As I said before, as ridiculous as it sounds, another big problem is that boxing just takes too long for the short attention span theatre that dominates today.

Have you been sneaking into my head and stealing my thoughts? I've been saying this for the last ten years or so.

Same argument with music today it's all downloading single track MP3's to your i-pod.

Whatever happened to listen to a whole album from start to finish???????

The Microwave Mentality I call it.

[wolgast]

Casinos have made it wasy for promoters who now do not have to sell tickets in hometowns. Take away the casinos and most of the promoters would be out of business.