Cotto-Margarito Results & discussion- 12/3/11

[JaKob]

Cotto did make good adjustments and Margarito' pressure without the loaded gloves was not nearly as effective.

Rios looked like junk to me. His shots did not look crisp at all like they normally are. He just went into grind mode and used his determination and edge in skill to grind out that win. I hope he either cuts to 135 properly from here on or moves up.

I wonder if Cintron wants his rematch now! Margacheato sure destroyed any legacy he had! Tough as nails and perhaps nothing more.

Yup for sure.

The fight against Mosley when he was caught with loaded gloves was the first fight subsequent to his win over Cotto. I can't see how he can be given the benefit of the doubt as it pertains to his win over Cotto.... if i was a betting man i would sure be putting my money on those gloves being loaded against cotto in the first fight.

Margarito has his sympathizers. Something i really dont understand. Having doubt cast over your victories is a small price to pay relative to the appropriate punishment. Appropriate punishment being a lifetime ban that would ensure that he never made another dollar in this sport.

[mrbig1]

Yeah, since margo got caught, he hasn't come close to hurting anyone, although the competition has been stiff. He got stopped by Mosley, went 10 with Garcia, got pummeled by Pac, and now owned by cotto and never came close to hurting cotto or busting him up like the first time. So maybe there is something to the argument that Margo is not much of a puncher unless he had loaded gloves.

You are wise my friend.

[mrbig1]

I hear that A.M. said Cotto hits like a girl. Well he got his ass kicked by a girl. Tony should keep his mouth close if he can't say anything smarter than that.

[Overhand_Right]

So can anyone tell me what really happened here, as I haven't seen it yet. Was the house fighter protected so that there was no risk of Margarito coming on in the last three?

I fail to see how he can be stopped on a cut vs Cotto and yet when he looked like Frankenstein's Monster vs Pacman nobody stopped it and he was allowed to go 12.

[JLP 6]

So can anyone tell me what really happened here, as I haven't seen it yet. Was the house fighter protected so that there was no risk of Margarito coming on in the last three?

I fail to see how he can be stopped on a cut vs Cotto and yet when he looked like Frankenstein's Monster vs Pacman nobody stopped it and he was allowed to go 12.

I am right there with you. I did not see a clear beating happening in there. I saw Cotto make necassary adjustments and was winning the fight, but he was running his behind of, and his face was starting to beef up, and if he had stopped for any amount a significant time anything could have happened because Antonio was not at all being hurt by Cotto was offering. He actually was loving it.

I think that stoppage ended a fight that was going to come down to the very last second. I have seen plenty of fights where the "boxer" is moving and hitting but at the end gets run over.

All I am saying is sans the eye, and Cotto getting run over was a possiblity.

[Overhand_Right]

Very interesting. Sounds very iffy.

[prototypeofamodernmadman]

I don't see Margarito running anyone over as slow and telegraphed all of his shots were all night, not to mention his horrible footwork if you could call it that,

I do feel that the fight should have been allowed to continue, like has been mentioned, Margarito was repeatedly answering the doctor with the correct answers, so in some way this was a way to make what would have been a decision by Cotto look like a more emphatic and dominating victory by making it appear that Margarito was too damaged to continue.

As for Cotto "running his ass off", you need to use that type of movement against someone like Marg, that was the best way to fight him, use movement, back up and catch him with fast, hard counters, whenever Cotto stopped and tried to go toe to toe it turned decidedly in Marg's favor, so why give him a chance?

[diggity]

I do find it very strange that Margarito hasn't really hurt anyone since the wrap fiasco.
Did Cotto happen to make any comments after the fight regarding how the shots felt this time around?
I'm very curious...

Cotto did a great job circling away from the right hand this time.
He must have been in some amazing shape to keep the pace he did.
I don't know if he took Margarito's shots better this time around or if Margarito just didn't land them as well this time but Cotto seemed pretty fresh by the time of the stoppage.
I thought he could have made his night easier by going to the body more and getting Margarito to back up but whatever plan he had, he followed it religiously and the result spoke for itself. Cotto doesn't quite have the chin that Mosley has so I suppose that movement was the only way he could pull this off successfully.

I was surprised the fight was stopped when it was but I guess that was to be expected knowing the history of that eye.
Margarito wasn't really getting to Cotto anyway and the eye was just going to take more of a needless beating.
I still can't believe that guy's chin. It was amazing to me how he could walk through Cotto's shots like that all night.
I wouldn't be surprised if that eye needed repair again after this.
He might get his very own lifetime ban after all if he continues to let his eye take damage like that.

Redemption served.

[jlupi]

As for Cotto "running his ass off", you need to use that type of movement against someone like Marg, that was the best way to fight him, use movement, back up and catch him with fast, hard counters, whenever Cotto stopped and tried to go toe to toe it turned decidedly in Marg's favor, so why give him a chance?>>>

nothing wrong w the plan but 3 rds can be an eternity if they are 10-12 and the guy is known to gas. not to say cotto could not sustain but who knows now????? Marg was getting his ass handed to him but he keeps coming and was not "hurt". cotto was starting to feel him in there also.

[jlupi]

From boxingtalk:

SMOGER: STOPPING THE FIGHT "WAS THE DOCTOR’S ORDERS"
By Doveed Linder

Last Saturday, Steve Smoger was the referee for the rematch between WBA 154-pound super champion Miguel Cotto and his 2008 conqueror, Antonio Margarito. On Saturday, Cotto won via technical knockout due to the fact that Margarito’s surgically repaired right eye being completely closed at the end of the ninth round due to Cotto's punches. Boxingtalk spoke with Smoger to get his take on the pre-fight proceedings, the action in the ring, and the eventual stoppage.

STEVE SMOGER: I was absolutely honored to be selected by Melvina Lathan, the commissioner of the New York State Athletic Commission. When she contacted me, she told me that she had confidence in my abilities and she felt that I would fit for a fight of this magnitude. That selection was approved by Gilberto Jesus Mendoza, the vice president of the WBA. And that’s the process – you are selected and then approved. But it was Melvina’s call and she’s the greatest. I have a world of respect for her and I told her that I was honored and that I would do my best to live up to her expectations.

We had a rules meeting before the fight at Madison Square Garden. It was Mrs. Lathan, myself, and Aurelio Fiengo, who was the supervisor for the WBA. He’s a great guy. We met with the champion first, and this is my third title fight with Mr. Cotto. I worked his fight with Paullie Malignaggi, which was his last fight at 140. And he had a very exciting KO in Atlantic City over Carlos Quintana, which I worked as well. So we have a very positive association. We go over the rules and I noted that he was exceedingly loose. We asked him if he wanted the instructions in Spanish or English, and he said English. And I wish I spoke Spanish as fluently as Miguel speaks English. He was excellent. So we went over all the rules and we wished him well.

Next, we go see Tony Margarito. And I see him and I say, “The Tijuana Tornado!” I lighten it up, and he was smiling and he was very respectful. He carries himself with class and dignity. I had never worked with Antonio before, but I’ve been in his presence. I’ve always admired his ability in the ring and I had no preconceived notions about his past. I don’t know what happened and it’s not my place to judge the situation. And the immediate feelings I have for these warriors in indescribable. When I met with Miguel and Tony, I knew that I was going to get 110% out of both fighters. I could feel it in the dressing room. As a referee, I can just sense these things.

And I had no worries about anybody working outside of the rules, because of the efficiency of the New York State Athletic Commission. Two inspectors were there for the wrapping of the hands. In fact, chief inspector Felix Figueroa made sure there were two inspectors in each dressing room from the minute each fighter walked in the building. The eyes of the commission never left Cotto or Margarito the whole night. George Ward, a veteran state inspector, was assigned to Margarito and he was focused on the wrapping from the minute the tape and the gauze was delivered. And this was all handled by Commissioner Lathan.

After we go over the rules with Margarito, I’m standing in front of Tony. [His trainer] Robert Garcia is next to us. And I said, “Antonio, you are a complete fighter.” I said that in Spanish. I said, “Your eye doesn’t bother me, bro. I don’t care about all the stuff about the eye. You are a complete fighter.” And when I said that, I saw the concern on Margarito’s face leave. He knew I was going to give him a fair shake and that he was on an even playing field. I had the commissioner on my right shoulder, I’ve got HBO on my left shoulder, and I’ve got the supervisor from the WBA two feet from me. But I wanted to assure this young man that he was a complete fighter. Miguel Cotto is the star from Puerto Rico, Antonio Margarito is the hero from Tijuana, but the ring at Madison Square Garden was completely neutral. And from my perspective, there was a sense of relief from Margarito. And Robert Garcia said to me, “We’re glad we’ve got you, Steve.”

Now, for the fight… Both as a fan and as a third man, I had never seen Miguel Cotto box so skillfully. He was absolutely fantastic. His movement and his change of direction kept Tony off balance to a great degree. And when they got close, I didn’t want to break them up, because I knew that Cotto had something cooking. He’s using angles and just when you think it’s a clinch, he threw a tight combination. It was beautiful! And his movement was exceptional. He really took on the role of a boxer and his new trainer made some big differences. It was the most complete I’ve ever seen Miguel Cotto. From Tony’s perspective, I have never seen him better conditioned, I’ve never seen him more focused… He was on a mission. He did not take one step back the entire evening. And every time he was hit, he smiled and said, “Woooooo!” What a pleasure it was to be in the ring with these warriors! They gave it everything they had!

After the ninth round, we go to Margarito’s corner. The doctor called me over. And they get the eye physician who is one of the top rated opthalmologists in the country [Anthony Currieri]. And Antonio was pleading to continue. He said, “Steve, please! Give me one more round!” He said he felt great and that he wanted to keep going. But the doctor said, “Steve, you have to stop it. The eye is closed.” But I hesitated, because I wanted to make sure that all of the doctors were in agreement. If there was any delay, if there was any hesitancy, it came from me. I wanted to make sure. It’s hard to stop a fight when a guy keeps coming forward. Tony fought valiantly and I always want to give the fighter every opportunity, so I wanted to make sure that there was no confusion about this.

This year, we’ve had several incidents with fighters hugging and kissing and quitting, and complaining about shoulder injures and low blows… But Margarito wanted to fight! His eye was closed and he wanted to fight! He had no excuses whatsoever and that’s what boxing is all about. You want warriors? Give me Tony Margarito! Give me Miguel Cotto! They weren’t going nowhere, brother! I love these two fighters! They had a big draw, they fought at Madison Square Garden, they fought for a title, and they got paid. What more can you ask for?

As I entered the elevator to exit Madison Square Garden, I saw Julio Cesar Chavez, Jr. So I said, “Hi, Junior. How are you?” And he said, “Hi, Steve. What did you think of the stoppage?” I said, “Doctor’s orders, Junior. Doctor’s orders.” When I went outside the building, I was greeted by several Mexican and Puerto Rican fans. I signed autographs, took pictures… Some of the fans agreed with the stoppage, some of them felt the fight should have continued. I just smiled and shrugged my shoulders, because what could I say? It was the doctor’s orders.

[Ron Lipton]

"After we go over the rules with Margarito, I’m standing in front of Tony. [His trainer] Robert Garcia is next to us. And I said, “Antonio, you are a complete fighter.” I said that in Spanish. I said, “Your eye doesn’t bother me, bro. I don’t care about all the stuff about the eye. You are a complete fighter.”


Very interesting, insightful article "Bro."

[JaKob]

I am right there with you. I did not see a clear beating happening in there. I saw Cotto make necassary adjustments and was winning the fight, but he was running his behind of, and his face was starting to beef up, and if he had stopped for any amount a significant time anything could have happened because Antonio was not at all being hurt by Cotto was offering. He actually was loving it.

I think that stoppage ended a fight that was going to come down to the very last second. I have seen plenty of fights where the "boxer" is moving and hitting but at the end gets run over.

All I am saying is sans the eye, and Cotto getting run over was a possiblity.

In the later rounds Cotto was increasingly standing in the pocket seemingly in an attempt to get leverage into his shots. This gave Antonio the chance to start letting his hands go on a relatively stationary target. Even then he just wasn't as effective and inflicting the same kind of damage he did in the first fight. I don't think he was going to run over Cotto at all. With that left eye closed and an offense that was largely ineffective. He was still coming, he was still applying loads of pressure, he just hadn't inflicted anywhere near the same damage as the first time around and thus i doubt the payoff was going to come in those last rounds.

[walshb]

I don't seehow one can compare the two 2008 men to the men from Saturday. Both have regressed, but Margarito has really regressed. Cotto boxed beautiful in 2008 but just could not keep Margarito off him, and nor could he get Margarito's respect. Add in the "possibility" that Marg's landed shots in 2008 had more of an impact than the shots from Saturday night. There are a number of factors to be considered when analysing both fights. Mosley's hammering of Margarito was probably the most impacting factor.

[The Welterweight Epitome]

Hmmmmmmm, I read earlier today that these were also 10oz gloves, compared 8oz in the first fight. Along with Everlast in comparison to real puncher gloves in Reyes (then again, they weren't the Grant pillows)

If this were 15, I feel Margarito would have been in for a chance, but Cotto had enough left to survive 3 more, he hadn't even begun to take damage the way he was in the first fight from the earlier rounds.

I feel this would not have been stopped if it wasn't for the previous operations/detatched retina. His eye wasn't nearly as bad as in the Pac fight. I hope the Puerto Rican doctor wasn't to do with it because it looked to me like Smoger thought this could continue. Margarito had all the right answers and was fine in the ring.

All in all though, an easy victory for Cotto.

BTW Ron, I heard you are back in the ring with your license! Top top news, I hope these guys give you your due, it's never too late to climb back to the top with the determination and level of passion and skill you have!

[JLP 6]

In the later rounds Cotto was increasingly standing in the pocket seemingly in an attempt to get leverage into his shots. This gave Antonio the chance to start letting his hands go on a relatively stationary target. Even then he just wasn't as effective and inflicting the same kind of damage he did in the first fight. I don't think he was going to run over Cotto at all. With that left eye closed and an offense that was largely ineffective. He was still coming, he was still applying loads of pressure, he just hadn't inflicted anywhere near the same damage as the first time around and thus i doubt the payoff was going to come in those last rounds.

With that said, Cotto has no chin and very little defense, and Margarito never stops punching and never had any respect for Cotto's power, and was hungry to exchange. As he always does. Maybe two out of all the other fights he has been in, win or lose, he pushes his opponent to the limit of thier heart.

Plaster aside (which I hate him for doing), how can anyone hate a fighter like that. He paid his price with the suspension and beating by Pacquaio and loss here. With a damage eye, he still wants to fight on. He comes to a fighter home crowd where they boo his anthem and he tell them that thier fighter hit like a girl. I love it. For all the Duran fans in this place for which I am one of, this is as close as it gets to that level a demonic toughness. If Antonio had Duran's skill to go along with Durans attitude he would be banned from boxing for life or be placed in jail.

Now, one will never accuse me a stating that Antonio is the most accurate puncher, but his punches had an effect on Cotto. All one has to do is look at the expression on Cotto's during the fight, and the look of his face after. Cotto was wise to run and punch, because any sustained trading would have taken more gas out of him than Antonio, would have hurt him more than Antonio, and would have made each final round tougher to bear physologically, which in my oppinion is Cotto's biggest weakness and Margarito biggest strength.

If Antonio would have smelled any kind of blood/fear, he would have kicked it into high gear. Maybe he would have still lost, but Cotto would have again paid a heavy price for facing Antonio. I think he was spared from paying that price. Three rounds is a lifetime with a guy breathing down your neck.

BTW, I am thankful for a fight worth talking to you guys about. Everything else major has been nothing.

[JaKob]

With that said, Cotto has no chin and very little defense, and Margarito never stops punching and never had any respect for Cotto's power, and was hungry to exchange. As he always does. Maybe two out of all the other fights he has been in, win or lose, he pushes his opponent to the limit of thier heart.

Plaster aside (which I hate him for doing), how can anyone hate a fighter like that. He paid his price with the suspension and beating by Pacquaio and loss here. With a damage eye, he still wants to fight on. He comes to a fighter home crowd where they boo his anthem and he tell them that thier fighter hit like a girl. I love it. For all the Duran fans in this place for which I am one of, this is as close as it gets to that level a demonic toughness. If Antonio had Duran's skill to go along with Durans attitude he would be banned from boxing for life or be placed in jail.

Now, one will never accuse me a stating that Antonio is the most accurate puncher, but his punches had an effect on Cotto. All one has to do is look at the expression on Cotto's during the fight, and the look of his face after. Cotto was wise to run and punch, because any sustained trading would have taken more gas out of him than Antonio, would have hurt him more than Antonio, and would have made each final round tougher to bear physologically, which in my oppinion is Cotto's biggest weakness and Margarito biggest strength.

If Antonio would have smelled any kind of blood/fear, he would have kicked it into high gear. Maybe he would have still lost, but Cotto would have again paid a heavy price for facing Antonio. I think he was spared from paying that price. Three rounds is a lifetime with a guy breathing down your neck.

BTW, I am thankful for a fight worth talking to you guys about. Everything else major has been nothing.

I have to disagree that he paid the price. Two major paydays after engaging in an act that was absolutely criminal and should of resulted in nothing less than a lifetime ban... is no price.

Im sure his punches were having an effect on Cotto. I also agree that he never stops punching. I just don't think he was demonstrating a level of efficacy in his pressure to run Cotto over in those last 3 rounds. Theres no doubt that Cotto was feeling the pressure in there... but i don't see anything indicative of him not being able to survive for a few more rounds against that Antonio Margarito. He may have been able to do it in the first fight.... but he had inflicted far more damage in the prior rounds, was being far more effective, and Cotto was in a far worse state.

[JLP 6]

I will not debate your second point any further because what you say is reasonable. I happen to believe my point is as well. We can never know what would have happened in those last three rounds but, I am sure it would not have been any easier for either fighter. They both came to fight.

As far as your second point. I only have one question. Did you buy any of the fights that Antonio has been in after his suspension?

[Todd]

They should close the loop with a rubbermatch in Tijana. I wonder if Cotto would be up for that?

[Ron Lipton]

Hmmmmmmm, I read earlier today that these were also 10oz gloves, compared 8oz in the first fight. Along with Everlast in comparison to real puncher gloves in Reyes (then again, they weren't the Grant pillows)

If this were 15, I feel Margarito would have been in for a chance, but Cotto had enough left to survive 3 more, he hadn't even begun to take damage the way he was in the first fight from the earlier rounds.

I feel this would not have been stopped if it wasn't for the previous operations/detatched retina. His eye wasn't nearly as bad as in the Pac fight. I hope the Puerto Rican doctor wasn't to do with it because it looked to me like Smoger thought this could continue. Margarito had all the right answers and was fine in the ring.

All in all though, an easy victory for Cotto.

BTW Ron, I heard you are back in the ring with your license! Top top news, I hope these guys give you your due, it's never too late to climb back to the top with the determination and level of passion and skill you have!

Thank you very much Welterweight, much appreciated. I doubt very much now or ever will they realize what was done to me, how, and what I lost so unjustly.
One Comm was a former officer and should know my background and have some kindred feeling for me, I worked with Melvina and always liked her and she knows what I can do, the other Comm is a Judge and must know my background with Jose Chegui Torres, Jose Monon Gonzalez, my civil rights background awards, boxing background, referee background and the physical condition I am in which a referee should be in at all times. Does it mean anything to them, I do not know.

They picked someone else for the big fight and that is their right. I saw the Roy Jones fight in Russia and another one on ESPN with Sostre, I do not question or complain but the standard is confusing By the time someone gives me my chance at a big title fight, after all the illegal pain caused me and my family at the loss of years of the big fights I was regularly doing you would think as my son said to me, someone would do the decent thing.

It is up to them. I go a long way back with SS and I know what I know, some boxing writer affectionately called him Uncle Leo as to his striking resemblance to the Seinfeld character played by Leo Lasser. Jim Lampley who I respect and like said Uncle Leo is the best ref NY has, because he has been used a lot. Think that one over being he is from NJ. I wish them all the best and await my return in a 4 round prelim in an outdoor show in Secaucus. God doth have a sense of humor.

[diggity]

Congrats Ron. I'm looking forward to seeing you in big future fights.

[JaKob]

I will not debate your second point any further because what you say is reasonable. I happen to believe my point is as well. We can never know what would have happened in those last three rounds but, I am sure it would not have been any easier for either fighter. They both came to fight.

As far as your second point. I only have one question. Did you buy any of the fights that Antonio has been in after his suspension?

Yup completely agree. Your opinion is reasonable and with a fighter as vunerable as Cotto there is that possibility the tables could be turned in the later rounds.... i just didn't think it likely.... but indeed we will never know.

Nup i haven't paid a cent for Margarito bout.

[The Welterweight Epitome]

Sent you a PM Ron, although not sure if you got it....my internet keeps freezing and crashing out everytime I try to access my PM box....

[Kurant]

I don't buy into the Margo was coming on the last three rounds, or the he could, should.. or woulda.. It's all heresay.

Here's the bottom line. Margo is not a boxer. He is a fighter - and his punches are far less effective. It's been proven - and he wasn't effective against Cotto at any point in the fight. Even in the middle rounds when h started to get closer, Cotto still fought him off, pushed him off, turned him around and walked away from his right hand. There was no sign in the 9th before the stoppage that Margo was progressing to the point of overwhelming him, and it's my belief he never would have - again however that's heresay.

Margo hasn't been effective since the handwrap fiasco. He suffered 2 bad beatings at the hands of Shane, and Manny. A third with Cotto. IMO, that puts every fight of his into question. Margo never saw top opposition before, got busted with loaded wraps, and now lost against the top fighters in his weight class and suffered a beating in all of them.

And someone said Margo paid the price.. Bullshit. He never paid the price. He got slapped on the wrist. He could suffer 10 more beatings and he still hasn't paid the price. The man cheated. He put peoples health, and potentially lives at risk because he's never been a top tier fighter, and that's how he achieved his edge. They should have banned him, anything less isn't enough for me. Boxing has enough black marks, and the loaded wraps was one more.. a serious injury or death, would have destroyed it - especially due to cheating.

[Ron Lipton]

Congrats Ron. I'm looking forward to seeing you in big future fights.

Thanks Diggity, hope I get them.

best,
Ron

[Telepath]

I don't think Margarito was "accumulating" any pressure at all.

What I saw the last round was more a case of Tony being a bit tired, and Miguel wisening up to that Tony's punches didn't have much snap left. So, he stood more, tried to bully him and possibly even going for a knockout late.

I didn't see Miguel hurt a single time in the fight.

[sr71ko]

I was surprised to see how well Cotto moved around and has had more in the tank compared to Margarito. I had Cotto winning nearly every round, yet if you look at Cotto's face....the win was not as easy as it looked on the scorecards. I am glad that Cotto got the win, just wished that he had scored a ko instead of a tko. Margarito is talking shit about Cotto hitting like a girl....perhaps they should fight a 3rd time before someone else retires Margarito(And this is coming from a guy that thought both of these guys were damaged/shopworn fighters)? Kind of strange how Margarito was on top of the world with everyone ducking him except Shane Mosley. Pac-Man(even Freddie Roach had said at first the he would have Manny fight one of the Klits instead of Margarito) and Floyd Mayweather jr. were all avoiding him. But after Mosley exposes AM both in and out of the ring that folks wanted to fight AM. I know some folks will say that Cotto has nothing to prove, but like Capt. Ahab going after Moby Dick, Cotto needs to put Margarito on his ass. Beat his ass again by tko or ko to shut up Margarito for good. They say that Karma is a bitch when it comes to pay back....just may be AM got dished out some.