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James "Bonecrusher" Smith, power in both hands, capable of pulling a few surprises, and pretty durable but severely lacking in boxing ability againt "Little Klit" - arguably a better boxer, bigger though not nearly as powerful, and with a chin that can be reached. 12 rounds, who wins how, when, and why?
Bonecrusher may have somewhat limited skills, but he is light years better than Ross Purity. And Purity knocked Wlad out. In fact, Bonecrusher is most likely better than Corey Sanders and Lamon Brewster. Bonecrusher's win's over Witherspoon are better than any win by Wlad. Wlad has still never beaten a good fighter in his prime. Give me the Bonecrusher by knockout either early or late. As soon as he lands his first big shot, Wlad would be done.
Smith would give Wlad all sorts of issues. The guy wasn't an awful boxer (remember he gave Holmes a competitive scrap when they fought and Smith had only like 14 fights at the time) and when has Klitschko fought an athletic, hard-punching 6'4 fighter in his life? Smith had fairly quick hands at his peak and a good jab. Just being tall and throwing jabs enabled the sluggish Tony Thompson to have some success vs Klitschko and bust up his face. Give me Smith by KO around the 6th.
Bonecrusher lost by very clear decision to Witherspoon before KOing a very fat Spoon in the rematch.Originally Posted by Julian Jackson
Overall, Smith was close to a bum, IMO. Though a nice guy. The showing against Tyson was disgraceful and displayed his lack of heart, lack of will to win, and great fear. Skills? I still don't know how he beat Weaver, Spoon #2, and Bruno, but Weaver and Bruno usually had bad chins, and Smith was losing big to Bruno on points before the roof caved in on Bruno.
Wlad, whom I have little respect for himself, by comfortable decision over Bonecrusher.
This fight is more interesting than I had realized. Bonecrusher was the poster child for underachieving and unpredictable fighters of the 1980s/1990s. Wlad post Lamon Brewster 1 would be super cautious and box from the outside, throw his straight right hand, and hold like hell. You could make a case that Wlad would win a boring decision, but Bonecrusher caught Weaver early and Bruno late. He ko'd Witherspoon in a rematch and cut and rocked Larry Holmes a few times. Wlad would be ahead of points but as he ran out of gas late....Bonecrusher would catch him late and win by 11th round tko/ko. You could make a strong case that Wlad would win by an easy decision, but if Brewster, Puritty could catch Wlad....Bonecrusher would as well.
Bonecrusher hits hard enough to drop or stop Wlad. He has the chin and defense to go long as well. The two factors that favor a distance fight are Smith's slow pacing and reluctance to fight inside, which would compliment the Ukrainian's bouncing around the ring style of safety first. A decision would favor Klitschko, who could edge Smith out on being busier.
Wlad isn't busy vs fighters he knows can knock him out . . just look at him vs Haye and Ibragimov.
I'm no huge wlad fan at all. However i don't he is getting the small amount of respect he deserves as a fighter.
He is highly coordinated and skilled for his size. He is technically solid, has great natural athleticism for such a big man, and concussive power that is facilitated by a skillset that has been honed to make the most of his physical assets. Emmanuel steward has done a good job with him. He knows how to use that ram rod jab to control the distance, can throw powershots off it, has decent footwork and mobility.
He has weaknesses and plenty of them. He is far from durable. His recovery doesn't look too great either. He may be athletic and coordinated for his size, however he is still ponderous and cumbersome compared to the skilled, smaller heavyweights of other eras. His workrate and output are very conservative. He is a cerebral fighter who lacks real killer instinct.
He isn't going to beat the greats of the past...but bonecrusher smith? Give me Wlad anyday. Someone brought up his knockout losses. His last knockout loss was in 2004 and he has come a LONG way since. He is vunerable, he can be knocked out, but you have to get to him first and that is no easy task now his skillset has been developed to effectively harness his physical attributes. As a big, athletic, skilled man he is an anomaly and deserves credit accordingly.
Again no GREAT heavyweight, indeed piss boring, dominating in an appallingly weak and shallow division.... but enough to beat the likes of Bonecrusher Smith in my honest opinion.
Last edited by JaKob; 12-15-2011 at 03:23 AM.
Ross Purity knocked Wlad out in 1998.......
Busier being a relative term.
Purity and Brewseter made Wlad quit and Bonecrusher would do the same only quicker,
WKS
He is as busy as he needs to be to win rounds. It makes him piss boring, but also maximises his chances of victory by minimizing the opportunities given to his opposition whom could exploit his lack of durability.
Mismatch.
All Wlad. Just when is Smith going to look into his corner with that confused look for advice he isn't going to follow anyway? Maybe halfway through the first when he eats punches? His defense and hand placement and lack of head movement or upper body movement make him a sitting duck for the highly accurate punches a taller more mobile guy like this throws.
Smith needs a guy that stands still so he can wing away with his falling in 1 and done punch. You really don't have to be concerned with 4 punch combos when you are talking Bonecrusher. Or, fighting smart. And an opponent with a defense like a Cooney or a slow starter like Weaver. He needs the big openings.He was very badly outboxed by Bruno and this guy is a lot faster with straighter punches coming from an even taller guy that fights tall. That Smith defense and that limited gastank are huge liabilities against an opponent like this.\
Smith against a Gerry Cooney or even a Brewster or Golata to me anyway, are much easier potential wins than Wladimir Klitschko.
Name one good fighter Wlad has ever beaten in his prime? For all his deficiencies, Bonecrusher has fought several very good fighters a]in their prime (Witherspoon, Tubbs, Bruno, Weaver), and two all-time greats (Holmes, Tyson) He knocked out both Bruno and Witherspoon. I think Bruno has a chance of knocking out Wlad, and I definitely think prime Spoon knocks Wlad out. Wlad may fight a little smarter (and/or more timidly) under Manny Steward, but I don't really see that much improvement. He simply has fought a progressively worse group of challengers. His record is really not much different than Frank Bruno's. Bottom line is: Wlad has gotten knocked out by every fighter that actually punched him back. And Manny Steward knows this secret all too well. Wlad's ONLY sparring partner is medicre MIDDLEWEIGHT Andy Lee. I think that proves that Manny knows just how fragile Wlad's chin and psyche are, so he doesn't risk Wlad getting knocked out in sparring. I think Bonecrusher has a lot more trouble with Vitali and loses a decision. But, against Wlad I see Bonecrusher knocking him out as soon as the first big punch lands.
Wheres the source to indicate that his only sparring partner is middleweight andy lee? He was recently sparring with Justin jones... a heavyweight.
He fights smarter and is technically far sharper than he ever was. His skillset has absolutely become more refined. He is far more balanced, with greater defense, effective footwork, and a left jab that isn't a mere paw... but a ramrod, stiff jab that controls the range effectively.
"Wlad has gotten knocked out by every fighter that actually punched him back"
Fighters no longer find themselves in the position to tag Wlad because he fights in a way that is conducive to saftey and maximizes his advantages. I think people are just a wee bit extreme with the hyperbole as it pertains to how bad Wlad is.
He hasn't beat a shitload of great fighters which leaves only an observation of skills, physical assets, style and how the two fighters matchup accordingly. I pick Wlad.
I had read the part about Andy Lee in Boxine Scene before the (aborted) fight against Chisora. You remember, the fight that Wlad pulled out of due to his stomach hurting. Your response made me research more, and I agree that Andy Lee is generally not his only sparring partner. But Lee has been a steady sparring partner of Wlad's for over two years. Can anyone imagine a Mike Tyson or Lennx Lewis sparring with a guy like Lee? It wouldn't last 2 minutes. And, the fact that a heavyweight as experienced as Wlad is only supplementing Lee with awful fighters like Justin Jones only proves my point more. Although you can't have the fighter in tough sparring all the time, good fighters do need to be pushed. Manny spars with Amir Khan, Tyson sparred with Oliver McCall and Greg Page, and Muhammed Ali sparred with Larry Holmes. That is how great fighters get good, and how they stay good.
And, I am still waiting for a description of Wlad beating a good fighter in their prime. Athletic gifts and size against horrible opposition can be very misleading. Does Wlad look any better than guys like up and coming David Lemieux before he stepped up the competition? Lemieux was decimating the competition until he moved his competition up just a notch or two. Since then Lemieux is 0-2. Wlad and Manny are smart enough to realize this and are content to win against nobody and sell out halls in Germany. It worked for Ottke, Maske, and Michechewski... And now it works for Wlad. I can't imagine how hurt Ali or Holmes (or really anybody else) would have to be to pull out of a fight with Mormeck for Christ's sake.
That description isn't coming Jackson. I admitted this. And again... i have no great love for the klitschkos. I do however ensure i stay objective when considering such matchups. I can see the physical qualities and the skillset he employs to harness these physical qualities and i see a solid, effective fighter. I'd pick MANY a fighter from the past over Wlad, but bonecrusher smith is not one of them. That's just my take. I'll leave it at that.
Well, Bonecrusher himself wasn't, in my estimation, "a good fighter" when in his own prime. Making a very past prime Larry Holmes work a bit to an easy victory, stopping the very beatable, very up-and-down-and-often-fragile-chinned Weaver, and winning with a late Hail Mary over glass-jawed Bruno after losing every prior round, doesn't make him a good or a skilled fighter, to me.
Beating Witherspoon in the latter's prime might; however, THAT didn't happen. When they met the first time and Spoon was closer to his prime, he beat Bonecrusher handily.
Like JaKob, I'm no fan of the Klitshkos. But rewriting history to make Bonecrusher Smith out to be a good fighter isn't working for this observer. And hopefully you'd grant that a fighter would have to be at least "good" to beat little Klit. And not predicting luck in a fantasy fight. I don't think an unlikely, last-minute, lucky bomb should be factored into a fantasy fight.
Any man who has the punch power to flatten Mike Weaver and Tim Witherspoon in 1, and rock Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson has the power to knock Wladimir Klitschko unconscious. Bonecrusher also had an iron chin which makes him an even more ominous opponent for the little klit.
Bonecrusher splatters him in a match that looks very much like Sanders/Klitschko.
Hey Michael and JaKob,
Don't get me wrong on Bonecrusher. I am certainly not saying he is a great fighter. Or even a really good one. But, as overhand right observes above, he is big, durable and can punch. That is just a bad matchup in my opinion for Wlad. I already stated in a previous post that I think he loses on points to Vitali.
Cheers,
J.J.
I'll go along with Julian's post #21 here.
But, Overhand, you have mentioned 4 opponents with whom Bonecrusher had 5 bouts-- and lost 3 of them VERY decisively. And Weaver is absolutely nobody to gauge success against Klit by. Weaver was way too unpredictable, and by the way lost to plenty of guys, among whom were several bums. I also don't recall Tyson or Holmes being rocked by Bonecrusher at all in their easy wins over him.
Smith's power and his willingness to use it are two different things. His boxing ability compared to Klit's is deficient. I see another Smith loss whereby afterward everyone says, "Why didn't he just throw some punches?" A la the embarrassing Tyson loss.
Bonecrusher stunned Tyson in the 12th.
Yep, Bone stopped him dead in his tracks with one right hand in the last minute. Also, I can't believe you don't remember him rocking Holmes - he landed some big shots and it was a good fight.
Bonecrusher competed in an era where Wladimir would be knocked out in every significant fight he took part in.
On a side note, with regards to Tim Witherspoon I have no real dislike for Wladimir Klitschko but an inshape and motivated Witherspoon slaps the living snot out of Wladimir.
Then after the fight dresses Wlad up in some pretty Bra and Panties and makes him cook him a delicious three course meal.
That's exactly what an in-shape and motivated Witherspoon does to Bonecrusher, and DID to him in their first fight. I believe that Spoon was in the worst shape of his entire career against Smith in their second fight, also with lots of Don King problems to boot.
As to this stuff about Smith stunning and stopping Tyson in his tracks . . . aren't we really lowering our standards here? Smith lost pretty much every second of the fight with Tyson, but because he landed one hard blow in 15 rounds, THIS makes him good fighter, one worthy of beating Klit-- based pretty much solely on power and the hope that he gets in a KO shot? Who says he ever lands that one hard blow against Klit?
The more I hear the reasons why Smith would win, the less convinced I am and the more I'd wager on Klit, with all due respect mates.
And yes, Spoon KOs Klit with ease. Tim was a much better fighter than Smith, despite being KO'd by James on Tim's worst-ever night.
I take Bonecrusher, early or late, on one of his better nights. As soon as he lands one bomb and follows, Lil Klit would be done in quick order.
A prime Witherspoon would destroy Wlad in a pretty uglu mismatch. Not so sure about the fatter and possibly stoned Tim from the second Smith fight though...
And though he wasn't always consistent, I'd take Mike Weaver, on his best night, over Wlad. Weaver could hit and despite some spottier losses
(Bonecrusher and the prematurely stopped Dokes I come to mind) could be very persistent and challenging, as in Holmes I, Tate, and Coetzee fights.
Smith was reluctant to pull the trigger b/c Tyson was a comstantly aggressive, quick combination puncher who up to that point had shown zero weaknesses in terms of being able to take a punch. Vs Klitschko Smith will be facing a much more reluctant enforcer who he'll KNOW he can take out with one punch . . that would give Smith much more confidence in coming forward and pressing the fight.
And call me crazy, but I don't think Smith looked that bad vs Witherspoon in their first fight . . he landed some good shots and kept up a good work-rate throughout . . he just kept getting caught by a better schooled, durable guy who could take some of his bombs (as he did). Wlad would NOT be coming forward to Smith like Tim did knowing Smith's power.
Just how many heavyweight champs you picking Smith over?
If you did not follow the sport at the time, go back and review Wlad's fights w/ Sdunek as trainer, not Steward. By far, most of his fights were with Fritz, not Manny. If you want to go back further, watch his amateur fights, like I did. He didn't just arrive out of nowhere on the scene after 50 fights, he was watched and scrutinized before he even won Olympic gold.
And??
Klitschko has always been a naturally timid fighter (who fights so cautious due to poor punch resistance) and this has been common knowledge SINCE his amateur days.
Wlad was more aggressive when fighting the likes of Pea Wolfgramm, David Bostice and Derrick Jefferson . . .it's common for fighters to be more aggressive vs guys they know are out of their league in class. Once he stepped up in class his fights became utter bores . . his fights with Botha and McCline until the stoppages were almost as bad as his recent displays of non-exertion. It's just got worse after the KO losses to Sanders and Brewster.
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