I have the Louis vs Musto Fight on film is it worth anything?
I have the Louis vs Musto Fight on film is it worth anything?
I would be interested in buying a copy of this fight.
If you have this fight what format is it? What length ? It would be worth a lot to the right collector. Have you had it verified?
I have to say I'm very suspicious of Mr. Stephen's post. His very first post here, and he's claiming to have a never-before-seen Joe Louis fight film . .
It could be genuine...if not it's one of three people who are notorious timewasters and use this sort of ruse to draw out valued collectors.
You are a valued collector...'Alex Stephens' is not. I may be wrong and have egg on my face!!!!!!!!!!
I hope so then I will get to see this treasured bout.
So Alex Stephens....where are you?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you the same collector who offered me Foreman vs Hostetter and Liston vs Johnny Gray and Jimmy Ellis vs Ron Lyle?? or Lyle vs Bonavena (all complete and mint of course).
I'd love to see the Louis-Musto bout if you have it. I've never seen it. I'm a big Louis fan. firstname.lastname@example.org.
Just out of interest, how much do people pay for rare fights? Say a fight that no other trader has?
Hello Peter D,
The rarity of a fight film would consist of a few factors 1)The actual age of the film 2)If the fight that was filmed was a championship fight/title defense not known to have been filmed otherwise as is the case with the (Louis vs Musto fight 4/8/1941) 3)The scarcity of said fighter caught on celluloid is also of supreme importance. Any possible fight footage containing Harry Greb,Bob Montgomery or most any pre 1940 fighter would be worth something to a fight film collector. Championship fights of course would be preferable as they have a lineal significance to the history of the sport. One must also consider the type of film that the fight was produced on ie Nitrate film is very volatile and taking into consideration that we are now in 2012 who knows if any of these films even exists and if they do are they in any type of condition whereby they could be converted over to be watched. As far as what these fights are worth on the market I really think it would be up to the buyer,for example ESPN CLassics might be interested in purchasing the fight because they own the former Big Fights Inc Library perhaps someone like Steve Lott the former archivist for Big Fights Incorporated would be interested as he is partners with other investors in a proposed boxing hall of fame in Las Vegas. These people could generate the kind of dollars that the seller would be looking for. I don't know if private collectors could generate that kind of many unless they partnerned up with another collector such as the late premier fight film collector Tony Fosco used to do.
Hope I have been of some help to you.
Regards Mikey capp
Last edited by Mikey Capp; 02-24-2012 at 06:14 PM.
Thanks Mikey. I regard myself as a collector but once a fight goes beyond $10, I am starting to sweat. :-)
Tony and I done some great trades over many years I cannot believe he has gone. We once bought a collection from South Africa for £14000. About 80 films in total. This collector was friends with Bill Cayton back in the 1970's and gave him many films. Some real gems in there including lots of footage of Panama Al Brown. The most expensive single fight was a Sam Langford film. The whole business has changed due to the reproduction facilities that are available now. And youtube. Owning film is probably the most valuable as they are generally more scarce. IMO
Yes I would agree with your assessment that the films are valuable in a select market such as is the Fight Film Collecting Hobby. Perhaps if the sport of boxing could improve it's image to the general public in the present day there would be more interest in the exploits of great fighters in boxing history to a more vast audience.
Last edited by Mikey Capp; 02-25-2012 at 10:34 AM.
I have spent several hundred dollars, per fight, on many fights over the past 30+ years in order to get them from the best production sources; however, after years of doing so, it becomes too expensive to do for each next fight that becomes available! So, like many of you, I am selective.
That is so true, the value of a fight in most cases is in the "Eyes of the beholder' as they say'!! On an historical standpoint it is interesting to watch a rare fight that was filmed on nitrate tape for the sake of the historical perspective of boxing. However if I were going to pay money for a fight I would much more enjoy watching a rare mint quality "television broadcast" from the 1950's, 1960's or 1970's.
I think if you have a match on VHS and it is first generation copy then this too is valuable to the right collector as that is what is sought after. Mint quality. The sound and the picture quality improves the overall impression of the fight itself which is obviously important. Mr Frank has the best VHS.
Hi Mikey and Evren,
Been a long time, Mikey. Yes, I agree with your viewpoint. In fact, overall, I believe that anything in this world is "worth" only what people are willing to pay for it. A used car might list in Kelly's Blue Book for $15,000, but if all anybody is willing to actually pay for it at a given time is $12,000, then THAT is its value in my mind-- certainly that is its "cash value" at the time. Throw something up on eBay (not copies of copyrighted items such as fights, though!), and whatever price it fetches in that 10-day-or-so auction period . . . is indeed what it's worth.
There was a lengthy dispute as to this issue on a CBZ thread in this section, a few years back and before I became a CBZ member, and I was fascinated by the value which some people placed on having a particular old nitrate film vs. my own feeling that if I had a perfect duplicate of that on DVD, say, I'd be just as happy, and would ascribe it equal value . . . to me, anyway. But then again, if SOMEONE (such as Tony Fosco, a perfect example) would rather have the original film and would pay a premium for it, then, ipso facto, that film has more value than the DVD copy. Ultimately, if either version came with the legal commercial RIGHTS, that key element should be most valuable . . . unless those rights (to copy, broadcast, distribute, etc.) could not be foreseeably monetized, in which case they'd add no value (though it's likely the rights should be worth SOMETHING).
Thanks Evrenb, for the kind words again. I am, to reference the subject of yet another older thread I didn't participate in, someone who for over 33 years wanted the absolute best quality and searched it out, oftentimes re-acquiring certain fight recordings 5-15 times until getting the best-quality (and most complete) version that I could find (when dealing with collectors as opposed to studios). After a while, for a 2-hour acquisition, I would just present "want lists" of 8-10 hours' worth of fights I wanted to own and would ask the provider to just select from that the very best quality items on those lists to fill the 2 hours. It was a somewhat efficient method in meeting my goals.
I truly don't understand how some people can accept any mediocre- or poor-quality recording of a fight, as I, personally, would derive no pleasure in viewing it (if in fact it was all that easy to make out visually in the first place). But, maybe these folks who can enjoy "any" quality of recording are the best off-- they can find enjoyment in the broadcast just fine and aren't upset about its looking bad. Which is a good, healthy temperament to have!
So nice to hear from you again, I agree with you on your assessment of the owning of an actual fight film or having a DVD copy.Let me add another dynamic into the equation, if one is to own one of these old nitrate films and or 16MM film they must also take into consideration the preservation of the film. At the former Big Fights Inc there were many different vaults which the older films were kept ( From what I have been told by people whom were associated in one way or another with that outfit) according to tempature and dryness....
I do not think that a 9 to 5 guy like myself would possess the money to preserve rare fight films in the "Controlled Environment" that is neccesary to prevent dessication and or further damage. Sans give me a DVD copy and at least the images are preserved forever a couple of back up copies on DVD and even a DVD transfer to Super VHS and that film will be preserved for as long as I am on this earth and more.
Kudo's to Evren he appears to be a young man with the zest and zeal to continue the pursuit of rare fight films, I honor your knowledge and enthusiasm for our hobby.
And I 2nd Evrens feelings [Michael Frank's fight film collection "pound for pound" the best quality fights you will get anywhere] When you got a fight from Michael Frank you did not have to search for a better copy because there were none better. Only stating fact here. regards Mikey Capp
Alex Stephens....come out come out wherever you are...I think I know who you are...
Alex Stephens lost credibility with me and most likely everyone on this board.
I think it is one of three people. One is resident at Cyberboxing, one was chucked off and one is a notorious film cadger....
Alex Stephens; 1 post ; hmmmm
As the late great "Howard Cossell would say "Dont be mislead" if the person was legit there would have been some responses to the various fight film collectors on this board. I sent a private message and never recieved a response from Alex Stephens, I did this on the hunch that maybe it is someone who does not have a knowledge of fight films. Not that I would have the money to purchase the film but I could of perhaps been the conduit to parties who could afford it and all I would ask for is a copy of the fight on DVD I would be duly satisfied. Personally I would rather see a one of a kind piece of ephemera in the hands of people who could care for it properly. its a hoax Evren!!
Regards Mikey Capp
According to his profile, he never logged in to the forum again after asking his question:
Last Activity 02-05-2012 11:21 PM
Senya13 - Just because he hasn't logged in doesn't mean he isn't watching what has been written. Or logged in as a different user... I know he is.
Anyway just because 'Mr Stephen's' does not have this film doesn't mean it doesn't exist. They said there was no more Langford footage until it was unearthed a few years back!!! Here is hoping we will all be lucky and the footage turns up!
Your point is well taken,I hope that somewhere there still exists a copy of many of the great fights that we have heard were filmed but have not to this day been acquisitioned. From Greb vs Tunney II and Greb vs Mickey Walker to Buster Mathis vs Jerry Quarry (Which we know was videotaped on the MSG Network sponsored by Schaefer Beer.
What I am convinced of is that this charachter Alex Stephens does not have the Louis vs Musto fight.
I just pointed a fact - that user didn't login after Feb 5. The first reply on this thread was 5 days later. Unless you can see the IP-addresses of the users who log in to the forum, or know him personally, that's just a speculation that he is logged in as another user.