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Thread: Top 100 fighters ever

  1. #1
    Steve McV

    Top 100 fighters ever

    Hello gents,

    Nominations now open for the top 100 fighters ever. Yeah, yeah, I know Randolph did a book. Pretty good one, too. But who do YOU think should be in the top 100? Nominate as many as you want... or disagree with choices.

  2. #2
    Roberto Aqui


    Benny Leonard

  3. #3
    Steve McV

    Re: 10

    No arguments here, Roberto. A very solid start.

  4. #4

    My top 10 (no order)

    B. Leonard

  5. #5
    JLP 6

    Re: My top 10 (no order)

    1 Sugar Ray Robinson
    2 Ezzard Charles
    3 Harry Greb
    4 Muhammad Ali
    5 Sugar Ray Leonard
    6 Robert Duran
    7 Henry Armstrong
    8 Willie Pep
    9 Joe Louis
    10 Marvelous Marvin Hagler

  6. #6

    Re: My top 10 (no order)

    Guys -- Bert's book is being re-issued and revamped. Some fighters added, some dropped, and many moved around.

    It is coming out from Lyon's Press.

  7. #7
    Tommy Hearns

    My top 10

    1. Robinson
    2. Armstrong
    3. Duran
    4. Pep
    5. Greb
    6. Gans
    7. Wilde
    8. Joe Louis
    9. Jofre
    10. Charles

  8. #8

    Bert Sugar's lists

    2006 Updated list:

    1&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Sugar Ray Robinson
    2&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Henry Armstrong
    3&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Willie Pep
    4&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Joe Louis
    5&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Harry Greb
    6&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Benny Leonard
    7&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Muhammad Ali
    8&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Roberto Duran
    9&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jack Demsey
    10&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jack Johnson
    11&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Mickey Walker
    12&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Tony Canzoneri
    13&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Gene Tunney
    14&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Rocky Marciano
    15&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Joe Gans
    16&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Sam Langford
    17&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Julio Cesar Chavez
    18&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jimmy Wilde
    19&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Stanley Ketchal
    20&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Barney Ross
    21&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jimmy McLarnin
    22&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Archie Moore
    23&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Marcel Cerdan
    24&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Ezzard Charles
    25&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Sugar Ray Leonard
    26&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Joe Walcott
    27&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jake LaMotta
    28&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Eder Jofre
    29&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Emile Griffith
    30&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Terry McGovern
    31&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp George Foreman
    32&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Johnny Dundee
    33&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jose Napoles
    34&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Pasqual Perez
    35&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Billy Conn
    36&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Ruben Olivares
    37&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Joe Frazier
    38&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Tommy Loughran
    39&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Sandy Saddler
    40&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Kid McCoy
    41&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Abe Attell
    42&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Evander Holyfield
    43&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp George Dixon
    44&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Maxie Rosenbloom
    45&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Larry Holmes
    46&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Ted Kid Lewis
    47&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Marvelous Marvin Hagler
    48&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Pernell Whitaker
    49&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Carlos Zarate
    50&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Thomas Hearns
    51&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Battling Nelson
    52&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Beau Jack
    53&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Ricardo Lopez
    54&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp John L. Sullivan
    55&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Carlos Monzon
    56&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Alexis Arguello
    57&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Carmen Basilio
    58&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Pete Herman
    59&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Charley Burley
    60&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Ike Williams
    61&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Kid Gavilan
    62&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jack Britton
    63&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Dick Tiger
    64&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Pancho Villa
    65&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Panama Al Brown
    66&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Bob Fitzsimmons
    67&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Phila. Jack O'Brien
    68&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Tiger Flowers
    69&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp James J. Corbett
    70&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Tony Zale
    71&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Tommy Ryan
    72&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Georges Carpantier
    73&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Sonny Liston
    74&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Kid McCoy
    75&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Bob Foster
    76&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Freddie Welsh
    77&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Joe Jeanette
    78&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jim Driscoll
    79&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jersey Joe Walcott
    80&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Peter Jackson
    81&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Ad Wolgast
    82&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Non Pareil Jack Dempsey
    83&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Manuel Ortiz
    84&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp James J. Jeffries
    85&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Salvador Sanchez
    86&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jimmy Barry
    87&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Carlos Ortiz
    88&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Roy Jones Jr.
    89&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Wilfredo Gomez
    90&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Aaron Pryor
    91&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Bernard Hopkins
    92&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Mike Gibbons
    93&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jack Delaney
    94&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Johnny Kilbane
    95&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Willie Ritchie
    96&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Wilfred Benitez
    97&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Packy MacFarland
    98&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Rocky Graziano
    99&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Lew Jenkins
    100&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Mike Tyson

    Original List from 1984:

    1&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Sugar Ray Robinson
    2&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Henry Armstrong
    3&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Harry Greb
    4&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jack Dempsey
    5&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Benny Leonard
    6&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Joe Louis
    7&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Mickey Walker
    8&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Sam Langford
    9&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Tony Canzoneri
    10&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Muhammad Ali
    11&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Joe Gans
    12&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Willie Pep
    13&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jack Johnson
    14&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Barney Ross
    15&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jimmy Wilde
    16&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Gene Tunney
    17&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Roberto Duran
    18&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Johnny Dundee
    19&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Rocky Marciano
    20&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Joe Walcott
    21&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Stanley Ketchal
    22&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jimmy McLarnin
    23&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Archie Moore
    24&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Tommy Ryan
    25&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp George Dixon
    26&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Eder Jofre
    27&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Abe Attell
    28&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jack Britton
    29&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Bob Fitzsimmons
    30&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Terry McGovern
    31&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Ezzard Charles
    32&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Packey McFarland
    33&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Ted Kid Lewis
    34&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Marcel Cerdan
    35&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Kid Chocolate
    36&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Pasqual Perez
    37&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Tommy Loughran
    38&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jim Driscoll
    39&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Emile Griffith
    40&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Kid McCoy
    41&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jim Corbett
    42&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Billy Conn
    43&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jake LaMotta
    44&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Maxie Rosenbloom
    45&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Pancho Villa
    46&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jose Napoles
    47&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Sandy Saddler
    48&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Freddie Welsh
    49&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Joe Frazier
    50&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp John l. Sullivan
    51&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Carlos Monzon
    52&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Kid Gavilan
    53&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Pete Herman
    54&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Tiger Flowers
    55&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Billy Petrolle
    56&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Sugar Ray Leonard
    57&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Non Pareil Jack Dempsey
    58&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Dick Tiger
    59&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Beau Jack
    60&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Ike Williams
    61&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Panama Al Brown
    62&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Larry Holmes
    63&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Carmen Basilio
    64&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Charley Burley
    65&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Phila. Jack O'Brien
    66&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Peter Jackson
    67&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jimmy Barry
    68&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Carlos Zarate
    69&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Georges Carpantier
    70&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Tony Zale
    71&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Young Griffo
    72&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Alexis Arguello
    73&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Max Baer
    74&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Marvelous Marvin Hagler
    75&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Battling Johnson
    76&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Joe Jeannette
    77&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Mysterious Billy Smith
    78&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Wilfredo Gomez
    79&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jersey Joe Walcott
    80&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Rocky Graziano
    81&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Sonny Liston
    82&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Harry Wills
    83&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Ad Wolgast
    84&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Tommy Hearns
    85&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Manuel Ortiz
    86&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Salvador Sanchez
    87&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Fighting Harada
    88&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Willie Ritchie
    89&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp James J. Jeffries
    90&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Johnny Kilbane
    91&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Bob Foster
    92&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Mike Gibbons
    93&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Benny Lynch
    94&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp George Kid Lavigne
    95&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Aaron Pryor
    96&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Lew Jenkins
    97&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Carlos Ortiz
    98&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Jack Delaney
    99&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Wilfred Benitez
    100&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Gene Fullmer

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    jeffries at 84 and 89...? what...in...the WORLD...!?!?! how could he rank jeffries anywhere but in the top 30!?!? i'm shocked...i'm hurt...

    i'll put a list of my picks up later on.

    i'll eventually get this book because it has all of my old school favorites like jeffries, battling nelson, george dixon, greb, joe gans, and sullivan. but, of course, their rankings are a bit questionable, which makes for good forum debates!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    In an undisclosed bunker deep in the weird, wild, woods of the Pacific Northwest

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    Personally I think the whole concept is ridiculous. It's far to subjective & a matter of personal choice. Just picking the top ten fighters of all time is difficult.

    The top 100?

    maybe it's just me but I really don't see the point.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    I'm the one in the middle.

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    Bert's lists redone as they for some reason appear a bit messed up and it doesn't look like I can edit it:

    1 Sugar Ray Robinson
    2 Henry Armstrong
    3 Willie Pep
    4 Joe Louis
    5 Harry Greb
    6 Benny Leonard
    7 Muhammad Ali
    8 Roberto Duran
    9 Jack Demsey
    10 Jack Johnson
    11 Mickey Walker
    12 Tony Canzoneri
    13 Gene Tunney
    14 Rocky Marciano
    15 Joe Gans
    16 Sam Langford
    17 Julio Cesar Chavez
    18 Jimmy Wilde
    19 Stanley Ketchal
    20 Barney Ross
    21 Jimmy McLarnin
    22 Archie Moore
    23 Marcel Cerdan
    24 Ezzard Charles
    25 Sugar Ray Leonard
    26 Joe Walcott
    27 Jake LaMotta
    28 Eder Jofre
    29 Emile Griffith
    30 Terry McGovern
    31 George Foreman
    32 Johnny Dundee
    33 Jose Napoles
    34 Pasqual Perez
    35 Billy Conn
    36 Ruben Olivares
    37 Joe Frazier
    38 Tommy Loughran
    39 Sandy Saddler
    40 Kid McCoy
    41 Abe Attell
    42 Evander Holyfield
    43 George Dixon
    44 Maxie Rosenbloom
    45 Larry Holmes
    46 Ted Kid Lewis
    47 Marvelous Marvin Hagler
    48 Pernell Whitaker
    49 Carlos Zarate
    50 Thomas Hearns
    51 Battling Nelson
    52 Beau Jack
    53 Ricardo Lopez
    54 John L. Sullivan
    55 Carlos Monzon
    56 Alexis Arguello
    57 Carmen Basilio
    58 Pete Herman
    59 Charley Burley
    60 Ike Williams
    61 Kid Gavilan
    62 Jack Britton
    63 Dick Tiger
    64 Pancho Villa
    65 Panama Al Brown
    66 Bob Fitzsimmons
    67 Phila. Jack O'Brien
    68 Tiger Flowers
    69 James J. Corbett
    70 Tony Zale
    71 Tommy Ryan
    72 Georges Carpantier
    73 Sonny Liston
    74 Kid McCoy
    75 Bob Foster
    76 Freddie Welsh
    77 Joe Jeanette
    78 Jim Driscoll
    79 Jersey Joe Walcott
    80 Peter Jackson
    81 Ad Wolgast
    82 Non Pareil Jack Dempsey
    83 Manuel Ortiz
    84 James J. Jeffries
    85 Salvador Sanchez
    86 Jimmy Barry
    87 Carlos Ortiz
    88 Roy Jones Jr.
    89 Wilfredo Gomez
    90 Aaron Pryor
    91 Bernard Hopkins
    92 Mike Gibbons
    93 Jack Delaney
    94 Johnny Kilbane
    95 Willie Ritchie
    96 Wilfred Benitez
    97 Packy MacFarland
    98 Rocky Graziano
    99 Lew Jenkins
    100 Mike Tyson

    His orginal list from the first printing:

    1 Sugar Ray Robinson
    2 Henry Armstrong
    3 Harry Greb
    4 Jack Dempsey
    5 Benny Leonard
    6 Joe Louis
    7 Mickey Walker
    8 Sam Langford
    9 Tony Canzoneri
    10 Muhammad Ali
    11 Joe Gans
    12 Willie Pep
    13 Jack Johnson
    14 Barney Ross
    15 Jimmy Wilde
    16 Gene Tunney
    17 Roberto Duran
    18 Johnny Dundee
    19 Rocky Marciano
    20 Joe Walcott
    21 Stanley Ketchal
    22 Jimmy McLarnin
    23 Archie Moore
    24 Tommy Ryan
    25 George Dixon
    26 Eder Jofre
    27 Abe Attell
    28 Jack Britton
    29 Bob Fitzsimmons
    30 Terry McGovern
    31 Ezzard Charles
    32 Packey McFarland
    33 Ted Kid Lewis
    34 Marcel Cerdan
    35 Kid Chocolate
    36 Pasqual Perez
    37 Tommy Loughran
    38 Jim Driscoll
    39 Emile Griffith
    40 Kid McCoy
    41 Jim Corbett
    42 Billy Conn
    43 Jake LaMotta
    44 Maxie Rosenbloom
    45 Pancho Villa
    46 Jose Napoles
    47 Sandy Saddler
    48 Freddie Welsh
    49 Joe Frazier
    50 John l. Sullivan
    51 Carlos Monzon
    52 Kid Gavilan
    53 Pete Herman
    54 Tiger Flowers
    55 Billy Petrolle
    56 Sugar Ray Leonard
    57 Non Pareil Jack Dempsey
    58 Dick Tiger
    59 Beau Jack
    60 Ike Williams
    61 Panama Al Brown
    62 Larry Holmes
    63 Carmen Basilio
    64 Charley Burley
    65 Phila. Jack O'Brien
    66 Peter Jackson
    67 Jimmy Barry
    68 Carlos Zarate
    69 Georges Carpantier
    70 Tony Zale
    71 Young Griffo
    72 Alexis Arguello
    73 Max Baer
    74 Marvelous Marvin Hagler
    75 Battling Johnson
    76 Joe Jeannette
    77 Mysterious Billy Smith
    78 Wilfredo Gomez
    79 Jersey Joe Walcott
    80 Rocky Graziano
    81 Sonny Liston
    82 Harry Wills
    83 Ad Wolgast
    84 Tommy Hearns
    85 Manuel Ortiz
    86 Salvador Sanchez
    87 Fighting Harada
    88 Willie Ritchie
    89 James J. Jeffries
    90 Johnny Kilbane
    91 Bob Foster
    92 Mike Gibbons
    93 Benny Lynch
    94 George Kid Lavigne
    95 Aaron Pryor
    96 Lew Jenkins
    97 Carlos Ortiz
    98 Jack Delaney
    99 Wilfred Benitez
    100 Gene Fullmer

    BTW, I am a sucker for lists.


  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    LOL @ mike tyson

    that chin keeps getting mike into more and more trouble...

    but...you mean he wouldn't even include Fighting Harada in his updated list!? WTF!? if you can put the triple crown winners on there (harada almost became a triple crown champion in his career; the man had talent and could fight like hell), and then someone like Graziano, then Harada should be on the list!!!

  13. #13
    Roberto Aqui

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    Ol' Bert has parlayed his cigar into a veritable cottage industry.

    Compare to Bert's greatest athletes list and note the order of the boxers as they appear.

    15. Ali
    25. Robinson
    57. Armstrong
    60. Dempsey
    72. Louis
    91. Pep
    99 John L

    Apparently, some boxers are better boxers than athletes and some boxers are better athletes than boxers!

  14. #14
    Registered User
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    Mar 2006
    Louth, Ireland

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    I'd really like to know the 14 athletes he puts before the GREATEST!!!

  15. #15
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    Jun 2006

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    Quote Originally Posted by GorDoom
    Personally I think the whole concept is ridiculous. It's far to subjective & a matter of personal choice. Just picking the top ten fighters of all time is difficult.

    The top 100?

    maybe it's just me but I really don't see the point.

    AMEN TO THAT!!, especially when comparing fighters from different eras who fought under different rules.

  16. #16
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    Mar 2006

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    For fun?.

    I haven't tried to make any lists for years, but if done well and not taken too seriously they can get good discussion going.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    I'm the one in the middle.

    I personally enjoy

    making lists.

    But the lists I make, are for me. I certainly would not want anyone to think that they are indeed gospel or that MY list is better or more accurate than anyone elses.

    It comes down to opinions I have formed based on the research I have done.

    I enjoy the lists that Sugar makes, although I find myself disagreeing with quite a bit of what he compiles.

    If nothing else, I think it get's the wheels turning in one's head.

    As far as the top 100 athletes Bert compiled back in 1995, here are his top 15:

    1-Jim Brown
    2-Jim Thorpe
    3-Babe Didrickson Zaharias
    4-Jackie Robinson
    5-Babe Ruth
    6-Jesse Owens
    7-Wilt Chamberlain
    9-Ernie Nevers
    10-Micheal Jordan
    11-Carl Lewis
    12-Bobby Orr
    13-Paavo Nurmi
    14-Willie Mays
    15-Muhammad Ali

    Let the "agahst"-ing begin.


  18. #18
    Registered User
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    Apr 2006

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    A class bit out of "Rocky Balboa" is during a TV panel when Burt Sugar exclamates on how Mason Dixon would have slaughtered a prime Rocky...

    Glad that Sugar has a good sense of humor. So do I, along with respect for Sugar as a boxing historian and as someone who always raises an interest in boxing. On that basis, I have forgiven him for writing how great Roy Jones was and how he coulda beat Spinks, Foster, and Moore.

  19. #19
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    Mar 2006

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    Here is my list, for what it's worth, which probably won't be much in your eyes. Of course it's very subjective and my knowledge of the sport is limited and it's hard to justify by any objective measure and blah blah blah. I still like to put it out there. It changes from day to day depending on what I learn and what I dispel. As you can probably tell my list is a little too featherweight, lightweight and welterweight oriented, and all I can say about that is that those are the weight classes i know most about, and hence my preference for fighters in those divisions.

    1. Sugar Ray Robinson
    2. Henry Armstrong
    3. Harry Greb
    4. Sam Langford
    5. Roberto Duran
    6. Willie Pep
    7. Benny Leonard
    8. Muhammad Ali
    9. Ezzard Charles
    10. Sandy Saddler
    11. Archie Moore
    12. Sugar Ray Leonard
    13. Joe Gans
    14. Marvin Hagler
    15. Pernell Whitaker
    16. Carlos Monzon
    17. Joe Louis
    18. Eder Jofre
    19. Gene Tunney
    20. Jimmy Wilde
    21. Julio Cesar Chavez
    22. Ike Williams
    23. Jose Napoles
    24. Barney Ross
    25. Tony Canzoneri
    26. Emile Griffith
    27. Alexis Arguello
    28. Mickey Walker
    29. Salvador Sanchez
    30. Fighting Harada
    31. Larry Holmes
    32. Thomas Hearns
    33. Michael Spinks.
    34. Roy Jones Jr.
    35. Carlos Ortiz
    36. Jim Driscoll
    37. Carlos Zarate
    38. Evander Holyfied
    39. Kid Gavilan
    40. Azumah Nelson
    41. Bob Foster
    42. Aaron Pryor
    43. Terry McGovern
    44. Bob Fitzsimmons
    45. Billy Conn
    46. Charley Burley
    47. Rocky Marciano
    48. Jack Blackburn
    49. George Foreman
    50. Jake Lamotta
    51. Ruben Olivares
    52. Dick Tiger
    53. Wilfred Benitez
    54. Miguel Canto
    55. Nicolino Locche
    56. Duilio Loi
    57. Joe Frazier
    58. Marcel Cerdan
    59. Bernard Hopkins
    60. Tiger Flowers
    61. Sonny Liston
    62. Jack Dempsey
    63. Wilfredo Gomez
    64. Joe Walcott
    65. Packey McFarland
    66. Oscar De la Hoya
    67. Antonio Cervantes
    68. Lew Tendler
    69. Tommy Loughran
    70. Carmen Basilio
    71. Luis Rodriguez
    72. Eusebio Pedroza
    73. George Dixon
    74. Tommy Ryan
    75. Mike Tyson
    76. Owen Moran
    77. Jack Johnson
    78. Jimmy McLarnin
    79. Stanley Ketchel
    80. Erik Morales
    81. Pasqual Perez
    82. Abe Atell
    83. Felix Trinidad
    84. Marco Antonio Barrera
    85. Lennox Lewis
    86. Lou Ambers
    87. Ricardo Lopez
    88. Kid Chocolate
    89. Esteban DeJesus
    90. Young Griffo
    91. Tony Zale
    92. Mike McCallum
    93. James Toney
    94. Manuel Ortiz
    95. Vicente Saldivar
    96. Beau Jack
    97. Johnny Dundee
    98. Ken Buchanan
    97. Jimmy Carter
    98. Flash Elorde
    99. Freddie Welsh
    100. Nino Benvenuti

  20. #20
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    Apr 2006

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    why isnt Terry norris in the top 100....lol

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    I'm the one in the middle.


    Nice List. Again, I have a blast with these. BUT they are nothing to raise your blood pressure over.

    Petey, Bert will always leave you shaking your head. His top 100 Book has actually been released 3 times. The original date being 1984. It was then Re-released in early 1989 with a differ cover (Tyson Koing Spinks) and while he didn't change the order up at all, he did add an addendum of Mike Tyson to his list.

    Mike didn't actually bump anyone, but Bert said, that if he were to add Tyson, he was going to list him #27 with a Bullet (as in going up the charts). Seeing Berts Last incarnation of the list in whihc Tyson BARELY makes the 100 cut, you can OBVIOUSLY see that Bert doesn't always follow his own recommendation of waiting until a fighters career is over before you evaluate him.

    And seeing that in 2006 Bert placed Jones at #88 Well behind Foster and Moore (although curiously Spinks never made any incarnation of his top 100.), it is obvious that he has reevaluated Jones as well and if he were to do that piece over agian, i doubt we'd see Bert having Jones NEARLY as successful agianst the Lightheavies as he was when he orginally penned that piece.

    Love Bert. But he is the reason I don't have a fuller head of hair.


  22. #22
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    Mar 2006

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    Cheers Hawk, and pink, Terry is just outside my top 150.

  23. #23
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    Mar 2006

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    Back in the days that Sharks, Hawk and I posted to another board, we polled the regulars for their all-time top 20s. I think we had 27 submissions. Then the ol' Hawk put them all together with a points system - 20 points for each time a fighter was #1, 19 points for #20.... down to 1 point for #20.

    Below are the results of that compilation from that poll. I thought it came out with a pretty darn good list (though I wonder if RJJ is still quite so high on several of those lists).

    1. Ray Robinson
    2. Roberto Duran
    3. Henry Armstrong
    4. Muhammad Ali
    5. Harry Greb
    6. Willie Pep
    7. Ray Leonard
    8. Eder Jofre
    9. Benny Leonard
    10. Ezzard Charles
    11. Sam Langford
    12. Joe Louis
    13. Jimmy Wilde
    14. Sandy Saddler
    15. Carlos Monzon
    16. Bob Fitzsimmons
    17. Marvin Hagler
    18. Pernell Whitaker
    T19. Larry Holmes
    T19. Roy Jones
    T21. Jack Dempsey
    T21. Salvador Sanchez
    23. Jack Johnson
    24. Mickey Walker
    T25. Gene Tunney
    T25. Ike Williams
    27. Michael Spinks
    28. Thomas Hearns
    T29. Tony Canzoneri
    T29. Fighting Harada
    31. Aaron Pryor
    32. Sonny Liston
    33. Terry McGovern
    34. Alexis Arguello
    35. Rocky Marciano
    36. Pascual Perez
    37. Barney Ross
    T38. Charley Burley
    T38. Marcel Cerdan
    T40. Joe Gans
    T40. Stanley Ketchal

  24. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2006

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    Current accusations aside, I'm always surprised Holyfield doesn't rate higher on these lists. He did alright for a guy who regularly gave up 30/40 pounds. I don't make out these lists myself, and don''t know exactly where I'd put him if I did, but top 15 or 20 seems reasonable to me.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    I'm the one in the middle.

    I remember that old list

    I also remember trying to post it with the points/ votes that each fighter got and it looking like a flippin train wreck. T was always there to save me on the technology end.

    Enswell, I am a very big admirer of Evander's and I refuse to let the recent accusations cloud up my opinion of him until something more substantive comes along.

    I certainly wouldn't criticize anyone for having Evander that high on thier own lists, but I would personally have a difficult time getting him in my top 20.

    The thing is with compiling these lists, it is amazing to see how many qualified guys you end up leavng OUT of your top 20.

    Take a stab at it one day and then tell me if you don't end up crossing out half your fighters and then constantly replacing them.

    "Oh Crap I forgot about Emile Griffith, and hey what about Tony Canzoneri? And if I have Tony C I have to have Ross. And Jesus I Have Hagler and Monzon #3 and 4 at Middleweight but I have Marvin in and not Monzon? And Crap, I have Kid Gavilan in my top 20, but in my welterweight list I have Napoles ahead of him, so now I need to switch those two......" and on and on and on.


  26. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2006

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    you're right , of course. Just thinking of making a top ten list makes my head hurt, let alone a top 100 list!


  27. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    Actually Hawk, I think I made a pic of it to be able to post it.

    Here it is, with the votes each fighter got (and I hope this doesn't screw the margins).

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    I'm the one in the middle.

    There it is

    Yeah, I don't think that turned out too god awful.

    Certainly better than the Ring fan poll, in which they had so many bogus votes with Butterbean and Small Montana recieving votesfor thebest ever fighter poll.

    This didn't have any "submarine" entries


  29. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    That's some good stuff right there. Are the original lists up anywhere?

    Kind of surprised some fighters like Jose Napoles, Emile Griffith and Julio Cesar Chavez didn't make a top 40 on aggregate, but there you go. I guess it had something to do with their ranking consistently in people's top 30 or 40, but not top 20's. That's understandable I guess.
    Last edited by sweet_scientist; 03-29-2007 at 11:59 AM.

  30. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006

    Re: Top 100 fighters ever

    Yeah, I still have all 27. In looking through them it's made me think about the folks we used to have a blast with on that site. Joonie, Tori, Mushashi, Tam, Paulie Walnuts, Boswelled... and of course Kid Husker, who still makes an infrequent appearance here from time to time. Good people. (And some real shitheads put in lists too....)

    Big Dave’s

    1.Sugar Ray Robinson
    2.Henry Armstrong
    3.Roberto Duran
    4.Sugar Ray Leonard
    5.Mickey Walker
    6.Eder Jofre
    7.Tony Canzoneri
    8.Harry Greb
    9.Muhammad Ali
    10.Joe Louis


    01.Sam Langford
    02.Harry Greb
    03.Sugar Ray Robinson
    04.Roberto Duran
    05.Jimmy Wilde
    06.Benny Leonard
    07.Muhammad Ali
    08.Joe Louis
    09.Sugar Ray Leonard
    10.Henry Armstrong


    12 JOE LOUIS


    1.Ray Robinson
    2.Roberto Duran
    3.Harry Greb
    4.Henry Armstrong
    5.Willie Pep
    6.Benny Leonard
    7.Muhammad Ali
    8.Ezzard Charles
    9.Sandy Saddler
    10.Jack Dempsey
    11.Robert Fitzsimmons
    12.Ray Leonard
    13.Jimmy Wilde
    14.Gene Tunney
    15.Ike Williams
    16.Barney Ross
    16.Tony Canzoneri
    18.Salvador Sanchez
    19.Joe Louis
    20.Eder Jofre


    1)*Sugar Ray Robinson
    2) Henry Armstrong
    3) Eder Jofre
    4) Roberto Duran
    5) Benny Leonard
    6) Muhammad Ali
    7) Willie Pep
    8) Jimmy Wilde
    9) Ezzard Charles
    10) Sam Langford
    11) Harry Greb
    12) Sugar Ray Leonard
    13) Bob Fitzsimmons
    14) Gene Tunney
    15) Archie Moore
    16) Joe Louis
    17) Rocky Marciano
    18) Aaron Pryor
    19) Jack Dempsey
    20) Carlos Monzon


    1.*Henry Armstrong
    2. Ray Robinson
    3. Muhammad Ali
    4. Ray Leonard
    5. Roberto Duran
    6. Willie Pep
    7. Marvin Hagler
    8. Eder Jofre
    9. Harry Greb
    10. Sandy Saddler
    11. Carlos Monzon
    12. Ezzard Charles
    13. Archie Moore
    14. Jack Johnson
    15. Tommy Hearns
    16. Joe Louis
    17. Pernell Whitaker
    18. Larry Holmes
    19. Bob Fitzsimmons
    20. Jack Dempsey


    1.*Ray Robinson
    2. Roberto Duran
    3. Ray Leonard
    4. Muhammad Ali
    5. Harry Greb
    6. Hank Armstrong
    7. Eder Jofre
    8. Ezzard Charles
    9. Willie Pep
    10. Roy Jones
    11. Fighting Harada
    12. Jimmy Wilde
    13. Benny Leonard
    14. Sandy Saddler
    15. Gene Tunney
    16. Salvador Sanchez
    17. Thomas Hearns
    18. Marvin Hagler
    19. Alexis Arguello
    20. Carlos Monzon


    1 Sugar Ray Robinson
    2 Roberto Duran
    3 Sugar Ray Leonard
    4 Henry Armstrong
    5 Muhammed Ali
    6 Willie Pep
    7 Sandy Sandler
    8 Ezzard Charles
    9 Archie Moore
    10 Larry Holmes
    11 Benny Leonard
    12 Joe Louis
    13 Aaron Pryor
    14 Marvin Hagler
    15 Eder Jofre
    16 Harry Greb
    17 Salvador Sanchez
    18 Tommy Hearns
    19 Carlos Monzon
    20 Sam Langford


    1.*Sugar Ray Robinson
    2. Roberto Duran
    3. Henry Armstrong
    4. Sugar Ray Leonard
    5. Muhammad Ali
    6. Willie Pep
    7. Sandy Saddler
    8. Ezzard Charles
    9. Eder Jofre
    10. Benny Leonard
    11. Archie Moore
    12. Jimmy Wilde
    13. Harry Greb
    14. Marvin Hagler
    15. Carlos Monzon
    16. Tommy Hearns
    17. Sam Langford
    18. Roy Jones, Jr.
    19. Larry Holmes
    20. Bob Fitzsimmons


    1. Robinson
    2. Duran
    3. Jofre
    4. Armstrong
    5. Leonard
    6. Ali
    7. Charles
    8. Greb
    9. Jones
    10. Pep

    2) Robinson
    3) Ali
    4) Pep
    5) Wilde
    6) Louis
    7) Langford
    8) Spinks
    9) Jofre
    10) Monzon
    11) Jones


    1.*Henry Armstrong
    2. Ray Robinson
    3. Harry Greb
    4. Sam Langford
    5. Willie Pep
    6. Jimmy Wilde
    7. Roberto Duran
    8. Ezzard Charles
    9. Muhammad Ali
    10. Joe Louis
    11. Benny Leonard
    12. Ray Leonard
    13. Bob Fitzsimmons
    14. Carlos Monzon
    15. Jack Dempsey
    16. Archie Moore
    17. Eder Jofre
    18. Rocky Marciano
    19. Michael Spinks
    20. Marvin Hagler


    01.*Sugar Ray Robinson
    02. Henry Armstrong
    03. Sugar ray Leonard
    04. Roberto Duran
    05. Muhammad Ali
    06. Willie Pep
    07. Joe Louis
    08. Eder Jofre
    09. Harry Greb
    10. Benny Leonard
    11. Sandy Saddler
    12. Pernell Whitaker
    13. Ezzard Charles
    14. Marvin Hagler
    15. Archie Moore
    16. Salvador Sanchez
    17. Carlos Monzon
    18. Aaron Pryor
    19. Alexis Arguello
    20. Roy Jones Jr.
    21. Larry Holmes


    1.*Sugar Ray Robinson
    2. Joe Louis
    3. Sugar Ray Leonard
    4. Muhammad Ali
    5. Rocky Marciano
    6. Willie Pep
    7. Benny Leonard
    8. Jack Johnson
    9. Sam Langford
    10. Sonny Liston


    1.*Henry Armstrong
    2. Ray Robinson
    3. Sam Langford
    4. Roberto Duran
    5. Jimmy Wilde
    6. Harry Greb
    7. Joe Louis
    8. Benny Leonard
    9. Muhammad Ali
    10. Willie Pep
    11. Ezzard Charles
    12. Edre Jofre
    13. Carlos Monzon
    14. Pernell Whitaker
    15. Ray Leonard
    16. Archie Moore
    17. Rocky Marciano
    18. Bob Fitzsimmons
    19. Marvin Hagler
    20. Alexis Arguello


    B. Leonard


    1.*Ray Robinson
    2. Harry Greb
    3. Henry Armstrong
    4. Joe Louis
    5. Muhammad Ali
    6. Roberto Duran
    7. Wille Pep
    8. Benny Leonard
    9. Ray Leonard
    10. Larry Holmes


    2. fitzsimmons
    3. grebb
    4. langford
    5. s.r leonard
    6. duran
    7. pep
    8. e.charles
    9. h.armstrong
    10. mickey walker


    1.*Sugar Ray Robinson
    2. Eder Jofre
    3. Roberto Duran
    4. Henry Armstrong
    5. Sandy Saddler
    6. Willie Pep
    7. Benny Leonard
    8. Muhammad Ali
    9. Ray Leonard
    10. Ike Williams
    11. Jimmy Wilde
    12. Ezzard Charles
    13. Harry Greb
    14. Bob Fitzsimmons
    15. Marvin Hagler
    16. Gene Tunney
    17. Carlos Monzon
    18. Fighting Harada
    19. Joe Louis
    20. Sam Langford


    1.*Ray Robinson
    2. Roberto Duran
    3. Harry Greb
    4. Eder Jofre
    5. Ray Leonard
    6. Willie Pep
    7. Ezzard Charles
    8. Henry Armstrong
    9. Jimmy Wilde
    10. Benny Leonard

    11. Fighting Harada
    12. Sam Langford
    13. Muhammad Ali
    14. Terry McGovern
    15. Pascual Perez
    16. Ike Williams
    17. Marvin Hagler
    18. Bob Fitzsimmons
    19. Jack Dempsey
    20. Thomas Hearns


    01.Ray Robinson
    02.Harry Greb
    03.Eder Jofre
    04.Roberto Duran
    05.Jimmy Wilde
    06.Sam Langford
    07.Benny Leonard
    08.Willie Pep
    09.Ray Leonard
    10.Muhammad Ali
    11.Henry Armstrong
    12.Jack Dempsey
    13.Joe Louis
    14.Sandy Saddler
    15.Pascual Perez
    16.Ike Williams
    17.Fighting Harada
    18.Ezzard Charles
    19.Marcel Cerdan
    20.Archie Moore


    1.Ray Robinson
    2.Roberto Duran
    3.Salvador Sanchez
    4.Henry Armstrong
    5.Jimmy Wilde
    6.Archie Moore
    7.Carlos Monzon
    8..Eder Jofre
    9.Harry Greb
    10.Willie Pep
    11.Aaron Pryor
    12.Muhammad Ali
    13.Ezzard Charles
    14.Sandy Saddler
    15.Robert Fitzsimmons
    16.Ray Leonard
    17.Fighting Harada
    18.Joe Louis
    19.Marvin Hagler
    20.Larry Holmes

    Real Joons

    1.Ray Robinson
    2.Roberto Duran
    3.Henry Armstrong
    4.Muhammad Ali
    5.Willie Pep
    6.Pernell Whitaker
    7.Ray Leonard
    8.Harry Greb
    9. Ezzard Charles
    10.Joe Louis
    11.Benny Leonard
    12.Jimmy Wilde
    12.Eder Jofre
    13.Marvin Hagler
    14.Jack Johnson
    14.Salvador Sanchez
    15.Michael Spinks
    16.Larry Holmes
    17.Sam Langford
    17.Roy Jones
    18.Carlos Monzon
    19.Archie Moore
    20.Stanley Ketchel

    Kid Blackie

    1 Sugar Ray Robinson
    2 Joe Louis
    3 Harry Greb
    4 Benny Leonard
    5 Henry Armstrong
    6 Roberto Duran
    7 Bob Fitzsimmons
    8 Sam Langford
    9 Willie Pep
    10 Carlos Monzon
    11 Eder Jofre
    12 Ezzard Charles
    13 Jimmy Wilde
    14 Muhammad Ali
    15 Sandy Saddler
    16 Sugar Ray Leonard
    17 Pernell Whitaker
    18 Marvin Hagler
    19 Archie Moore
    20 Joe Gans


    1.*Ray Robinson
    2. Henry Armstrong
    3. Roberto Duran
    4. Harry Greb
    5. Muhammad Ali
    6. Joe Louis
    7. Willie Pep
    8. Ray Leonard
    9. Sam Langford
    10. Ezzard Charles
    11. Eder Jofre
    12. Benny Leonard
    13. Bob Fitzsimmons
    14. Jimmy Wilde
    15. Sandy Saddler
    16. Archie Moore
    17. Carlos Monzon
    18. Terry McGovern
    19. Marvin Hagler
    20. Gene Tunney

    Kid Huskers

    1.*Sugar Ray Robinson
    2. Roberto Duran
    3. Muhammad Ali
    4. Jack Johnson
    5. Ray Leonard
    6. Willie Pep
    7. Eder Jofre
    8. Harry Greb
    9. Ezzard Charles
    10. Salvador Sanchez
    11. Jack Dempsey
    12. Carlos Monzon
    13. Henry Armstrong
    14. Michael Spinks
    15. Pernell Whitaker
    16. Roy Jones Jr.
    17. Alexis Arguello
    18. Thomas Hearns
    19. Charley Burley
    20. Sam Langford

    Raw Tuna’s

    1. Sugar Ray Robinson
    2. Roberto Duran
    3. Henry Armstrong
    4. Sam Langford
    5. Harry Greb
    6. Sugar Ray Leonard
    7. Eder Joffre
    8. Muhammad Ali
    9. Benny Leonard
    10. Willie Pep

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