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Thread: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

  1. #31
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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    Thanks for taking the time Adam! Seth Mitchell surprised me...I did not think that he would make it out of the second round! He was very hurt and his legs were completely gone at the end of round 1, but he came back strong and put it all over Witherspoon! That being said, I think Wlad would destroy Mitchell in a couple of rounds and Vitali would beat and bust him up over a few rounds!

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    You are welcome.

    Bucket, I simply think Hopkins' style and skill is such that no one can stop him. A friend of mine said he thought Dawson would stop him, and this is what I wrote back to him regarding that assertion: "I think Dawson is actually pretty cautious, and just ever so slightly more active and frisky than Bernard, but not enough [to stop him]. Also, even if Chad tries to stop him, Bernard is simply way too cagey to allow it. He will move, feint, fire, duck, step in and smother or tie up, move, sharpshoot a shot, etc., and show just enough speed, timing, power, and control of range that Chad is not going to be able to do a whole lot offensively. Trust me, this will be another typical Bernard tactical bout. He's a master of controlling a fight's tempo, win or lose."

  3. #33
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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by apollack View Post
    3 - SM drops CW with a short inside hook as they were warring it out. CW boxing around again. SM throwing real hard combos to the body. SM very strong. CW recovering and covering and showing some skill. Everything thrown is solid by these guys. SM just throws bombs. This is a war of attrition because the blows are powerful and they are keeping a fast pace. SM hurts CW again and wails away. Some hurt but CW is covering and moving and grabbing and doing just enough to stay in there. But SM shots are so darn hard. A couple very hard rights rock CW badly on the ropes.

    Referee Randy Newman starts to give him an eight count but then stops it.

    R. The boxer did not go down from a legal punch. He did not fall onto the lower strand from a legal punch, the ropes did not prevent him from going down as there was no knockdown. There was and is no standing 8 count. A standing 8 count was started, Witherspoon at that moment was not sent to a neutral corner, the "Standing 8 count" was stopped at the count of two, then the bout was stopped. HBO said, the ref gave him "An 8 count because the ropes prevented him from going down." Totally wrong. Emmanuel Steward correctly told the others, "There is no standing 8 count. The several replays failed to show what actually happened and was cut short, why? I do not know.

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    Saw the Hopkins/Dawson fight on HBO last night and this "fight' reinforces my belief of the mediocre state of boxing today...
    The only reason Hopkins at the age of 47 is a contender today is because the calibre of today's LHs is so sub standard that Hopkins is even fighting today. He is he is still tricky,wily etc, but were he to have fought in the era of Charles, Moore, Johnson, Lloyd Marshall, etc of the 1940s or for that matter when Mathew Saad, Quai, Johnson fought, Bernard Hopkins, would have been long retired...And Chad Dawson would not be champion, I might add...

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Lipton View Post
    R. The boxer did not go down from a legal punch. He did not fall onto the lower strand from a legal punch, the ropes did not prevent him from going down as there was no knockdown. There was and is no standing 8 count. A standing 8 count was started, Witherspoon at that moment was not sent to a neutral corner, the "Standing 8 count" was stopped at the count of two, then the bout was stopped. HBO said, the ref gave him "An 8 count because the ropes prevented him from going down." Totally wrong. Emmanuel Steward correctly told the others, "There is no standing 8 count. The several replays failed to show what actually happened and was cut short, why? I do not know.
    I think the ref incorrectly thought there was an 8-count, but then caught himself, and stopped it.

  6. #36
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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    I think Hopkins is a great fighter. He is also the biggest cry baby bitch in boxing.

  7. #37
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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    When B Hop loses, he loses close and gets eeked in rounds on inactivity, but not on a great deal of effective work. In his mind he's doing well because the other guy isn't doing much to him. He is a master of keeping rounds tight. Hence, he moans when he gets slightly edged by getting outworked. But that is one thing he has never quite admitted to himself - that when he loses it is simply because he does not do enough. It isn't just about what you prevent the other guy from doing, but what YOU do, and B Hop does not do much in there anymore other than an occasional shot or flurry, and has a lot of dead time in his rounds where the other guy is working and he just plays defense. He does not give judges a lot of excuses to give him the close rounds.

    But I also think he lost this fight because Dawson had a game plan that threw off B Hop's game plan and made it less effective than usual. Sure it was dull as all hell, but it was as effective at making B Hop ineffective as B Hop usually is at making his opponents ineffective. Hence the usual chess match, but Dawson actually won the slow and laborious chess match.

  8. #38
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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    Hopefully, mercifully, perhaps we have seen the last of Bernard "Clutch Cargo" Hopkins? Had CD been blessed with some real power he could have ended things definitively; I'm afraid by losing a "majority" decision B-Hop will feel obligated to pursue yet another rematch. I'll poke my eyes out with Grandma Kyoodle's knitting needles if that happens.

    BTW, judge Luis Rivera should be relegated to judging pie-eating contests.

    As for the heavies...indulge me here:

    Over the last couple of days I've been clearing out some old VHS tapes I still had stacked up around the house. Some of them are newsreel clips showing Marciano, Charles, Moore, Patterson, et al, preparing for upcoming fights. Some of the sparring partners, like Keene Simmons, who prepped Rocky for his defenses, and even some of the opponents who were denigrated back in the day, like Tom McNeeley, would ABSOLUTELY be Top Ten contenders in today's heavyweight division. That is all I need to know about the state of the game in the dreadnaught division in 2012.

    Regards,
    Kyoodle

  9. #39
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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by apollack View Post
    I think the ref incorrectly thought there was an 8-count, but then caught himself, and stopped it.
    Yes, Randy who I like and is a good guy, stopped the bout at the right time for sure. As to the comments on HBO about the ropes holding up Witherspoon, which would give a ref the right to call that situation a knockdown, put simply NO!

    As to the ropes preventing a boxer from going down and what it looks like.

    It is when a boxer is hit with a legal punch and falls to the bottom strand e.g. and the ropes prevented him from going down, the ref call that a knockdown.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJlMIrEaC80,

    In the case of Mitchell v Witherspoon as to the rules, there is no standing 8 count, and no mandatory 8 count or any kind of "8 count" is allowed, only a stoppage, which is what Randy correctly did after he corrected himself. The ropes in this case had zero to do with starting any kind of an 8 count, so I respectfully disagree with the HBO comment as to the ropes being involved at all.

    Sometimes a boxer is knocked down onto the lower rope and the ref incorrectly does not call a knockdown at all but just lets them fight without giving an injured boxer time to recover or assess the damage. Just to learn from these boxing situations and recognize what we are seeing is helpful to all.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fVHQAWh-r0

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    PS Only when a boxer arises before 8 from being knocked down by a legal punch is a mandatory 8 count given which certainly existed last night in that fight but no one went down at the time of the stoppage. Prior to that yes.

  11. #41
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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    anybody here notice how the face of seth mitchell looks like a young ernie shavers ? body too actually, but i don't think he will last as long.

    bhop robbed himself of his greatest victory which was the one over age being perhaps the only 47 yr. old in the world able to go 12 rounds with chad dawson (or almost any pro). had he stuck around for the interview and shown a little class during it his legacy would have a better chance to blossom among his fans. i ,for one, have never been a fan of his but he gained my respect for what he did last night...... then he walked out of the ring like the spoiled brat he still can be, even at 47. too bad.

    greg

  12. #42
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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Lipton View Post
    PS Only when a boxer arises before 8 from being knocked down by a legal punch is a mandatory 8 count given which certainly existed last night in that fight but no one went down at the time of the stoppage. Prior to that yes.
    Of course, it was master bloviator and noted mind-reader Jim Lampley who announced otherwise.

    I find myself pretty much muting the broadcasts on HBO unless Merchant is among the team. Max continues to go through my skull like a dull dentist's drill, though.

    Kyoodle

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    Bernard Hopkins will be remembered as :

    1. A physical marvel who remained highly competitive at a championship level as long as any other fighter.
    2. One of the most boring fighters in history. His achievements have been terrific but has anyone accomplished as much in as boring a fashion.
    3. A classless man. I say this knowing we are ll the sum of our parts. His pre-fight behavior necessary to some degree to psyche himself and his opponent. However, be it the acting on the canvas v.s. Cal to the never giving any opponent any praise, this is a classless human being.

    In addition, anyone that thinks this was his last moment in the sun is kidding ... he will be back and soon ... I personally have completely lost interest in him. Forget about paying for a PPV fight which I have not done in years. I have no interest in even watching him for free ... just too boring.

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    That fight was terrible, and yes, I never thought it would come to this, for years I've watched all of the fights every weekend, always knowing who's fighting when, their records, backgrounds etc... this last year has just about killed all of my interest, boxing really is dire, more dire than anytime in history, even a few years ago when some were echoing the same sentiment, it is even more fucked than it was then,

    as for Hopkins, he was terribly boring last night, and we always remember what people have done for us lately the strongest, but he is exciting from time to time, the 2 Pascal fights were very entertaining, as well as the Pavlik and Tarver fights, and shit, Dawson was extremely far from impressive and acted way more like a cry baby than Hopkins in the fight, Hopkins really got under his skin in the early going causing him to break down a little and cry and whine to the ref constantly,

    Ward would tattoo Dawson all night and have little to worry about from a guy that can't let his hands go, Dawson is ripe for the taking from any super six fighter that wants to move up[/SUB]

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyoodle View Post
    Of course, it was master bloviator and noted mind-reader Jim Lampley who announced otherwise.

    I find myself pretty much muting the broadcasts on HBO unless Merchant is among the team. Max continues to go through my skull like a dull dentist's drill, though.

    Kyoodle
    I don't mind Max. Lampley though. The inappropriate use of hyperbole, hype and praise where none is deserved, the regurgitation of punchstats, old boxing anectdotes he routinely throws out there in such a contrived way. It's cringe worthy. Ever since he decided it was a great idea to hype up a rather uneventful pacquaio vs clottey fight by crudely yelling 'BANG BANG BANG' as pacquaio rattled off combinations i've had a hard time stomaching his commentary.

    I like getting Emmanuel's technical insight of which he has plenty.

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by prototypeofamodernmadman View Post
    That fight was terrible, and yes, I never thought it would come to this, for years I've watched all of the fights every weekend, always knowing who's fighting when, their records, backgrounds etc... this last year has just about killed all of my interest, boxing really is dire, more dire than anytime in history, even a few years ago when some were echoing the same sentiment, it is even more fucked than it was then,

    as for Hopkins, he was terribly boring last night, and we always remember what people have done for us lately the strongest, but he is exciting from time to time, the 2 Pascal fights were very entertaining, as well as the Pavlik and Tarver fights, and shit, Dawson was extremely far from impressive and acted way more like a cry baby than Hopkins in the fight, Hopkins really got under his skin in the early going causing him to break down a little and cry and whine to the ref constantly,

    Ward would tattoo Dawson all night and have little to worry about from a guy that can't let his hands go, Dawson is ripe for the taking from any super six fighter that wants to move up[/SUB]
    I did not find the Pascal fights exciting at all .. Pavlik was interesting because he was heavily favored and exposed as highly limited ... I cannot name one Hopkins fight I would say was exciting based on action in the ring ...

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    Hopkins first fight with Robert Allen was exciting because Allen was taking it to Hopkins and was, in my opinion, on the way to stopping Hopkins before Hopkins bowed out with an injury, after a fall similar to the fall in the first Dawson bout! Hopkins won the rematch, but in that first fight Allen landed often with hard, hard shots that visibly shook Hopkins!

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    How would you nail down when Hopkins prime in the sport was?

    Trinidad?

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    BHop did what he always did when faced with equal superior skills, stink up the joint.
    Meanwhile Dawson showed that he can still squeak by the old men of the division.
    It's a real joke to think he can hang with Ward.
    I used to think Dawson was the real deal but he's proven a real dud thus far.
    Shame.

    I found it funny that HBO jammed in highlights of the nights in any moment possible to try to keep the fans from falling asleep.

    My favorite Hopkins fight was possibly the TKO against G.Johnson, followed by some of his light heavyweight bouts.
    The rest were mostly forgettable exhibitions of jousting his lead right hand then diving into a clinch.

  20. #50
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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    I remember good performances against Trinidad, Tarver, Pascal, Pavlik and a few others. Its been a long time but I remember good fights against Antwon Echols where Hopkins took some wicked shots.

    I know the hate for Hopkins runs pretty deep here but aside from the last few years when Hopkins really slowed everything down I actually used to enjoy watching Hopkins when back at 160. They werent always pretty to watch but I always appreciated his saviness and the way he used to dictate the fight no matter who he was fighting.

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    Yes, Hopkins did have some fun fights and/or some great performances. The Mercado fights were interesting. His KO of 25-0 Joe Lipsey was pretty awesome. I l liked his win over Bo James. KO victory over 35-2 J.D. Jackson was a good win. He owned 32-0 Glen Johnson. KO'd Simon Brown. The Echols fights were definitely fun. Echols was just a mountain of strength. Bernard dismantled Trinidad and stopped him, and people forget Trinidad was 40-0 at that point. The De la Hoya fight was dull and tactical, but he stopped Oscar with a single blow, and who else did that? - that was four years before Pac got him to retire. The Tarver and Pavlik victories were brilliant performances. Remember, Pascal beat Dawson, and B Hop twice beat Pascal, IMO, in his mid 40s! One thing you have to give Hopkins, which is more than I can say for any other fighter today, is he ducked NO ONE. The guy fought the who's who of elite fighters, a lot of whom were ducked and very few top guys wanted to fight. He lost several close decisions, but no one ever soundly beat him beat him, if you know what I mean. Even when he lost it was razor close. The Jack Johnson of the modern era. Not always the most entertaining, but very effective, and particularly great defense and ring generalship.

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    is he ducked NO ONE.>>>

    It seemed him and roy ducked each other for years.

  23. #53
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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    No, they fought and Roy won. Roy wins every time unless we are talking about the past-it Roy, who loses to B Hop every time. Bottom line is Roy might not have been as skilled, but his talent was out of this world, and would at worst eek anything B Hop had to offer, particularly since neither set a blazing pace, and at a slow paced fight, Roy was just too fast.

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    Hopkins' biggest problem is that he to focuses too much on the damage his opponent is inflicting on him rather than the amount of damage he is dealing out.

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    I too think Roy would of always bested Bernard if they fought in their respective primes. Bernard measures his man and exploits the openings that they leave open as they try to impose themselves against him. Roy wouldn't engage Bernard on his terms. Roy would establish his distance and utilize his overwhelming physical gifts to stay elusive and minimize any opportunity for Hopkins to score. Roy being as gifted and unorthodox as he was would always pose a major issue to someone like Bernard who would be trying to measure him and find openings that would be few and far between. To win this fight Bernard would have to be a fighter that he just wasn't. Willing to ramp up the pace in an attempt to outhustle Roy.

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    Re: Hopkins-Dawson II Results & Discussion April/28/12

    Quote Originally Posted by JaKob View Post
    I too think Roy would of always bested Bernard if they fought in their respective primes. Bernard measures his man and exploits the openings that they leave open as they try to impose themselves against him. Roy wouldn't engage Bernard on his terms. Roy would establish his distance and utilize his overwhelming physical gifts to stay elusive and minimize any opportunity for Hopkins to score. Roy being as gifted and unorthodox as he was would always pose a major issue to someone like Bernard who would be trying to measure him and find openings that would be few and far between. To win this fight Bernard would have to be a fighter that he just wasn't. Willing to ramp up the pace in an attempt to outhustle Roy.
    Well they did fight for the middleweight title so they did fight at their prime or just a bit before their prime. Roy Jones won a comfortable decision.

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