Haye-Chisora July14th

[jim glen]

Haye cannot handle a pace - hence why he has to throw so few punches a round. He won't be allowed to potshot versus Chisora, who has an iron chin and fights at fast pace all night. Haye will land some bombs early, realise he can't keep Chisora off him and fall apart late.

Chisora TKO10 Haye.

this is a good analyses, though I'm expecting a Haye outcome!

Chisora never gave up nor stopped when fighting Vitali and I think he boosted his capabilities, on that performance he is as good a HW as any of them, but I think Haye is better, Boxer, Power and determined...

No one was more annoyed with david Haye than me when he fought little Klit, but I'm giving him the benifit of the doubt, he is better than that and I think he could beat any HW out there if he'll just box & fight! Chisora as Overhand and a few others stated could upset that, and if he does, he'll be the man to watch and Haye will be finished!

again I'm expecting a Haye victory here, inside the distance I hope for the sake of Haye and as much as I regret to think it, I'm expecting chaos and serious trouble in the stands!

[JaKob]

this is a good analyses, though I'm expecting a Haye outcome!

Chisora never gave up nor stopped when fighting Vitali and I think he boosted his capabilities, on that performance he is as good a HW as any of them, but I think Haye is better, Boxer, Power and determined...

No one was more annoyed with david Haye than me when he fought little Klit, but I'm giving him the benifit of the doubt, he is better than that and I think he could beat any HW out there if he'll just box & fight! Chisora as Overhand and a few others stated could upset that, and if he does, he'll be the man to watch and Haye will be finished!

again I'm expecting a Haye victory here, inside the distance I hope for the sake of Haye and as much as I regret to think it, I'm expecting chaos and serious trouble in the stands!

I don't know what's really indicative of him being THAT good at heavyweight. I think it's rather possible that he hasn't got HW caliber durability and fights accordingly hence the way he fought against Klit. That's a fight i'd bet on him losing 9/10. The 1/10 attributed to the sheer vunerability of Wlad when someone can actually get leather on target.

[GorDoom]

http://www.boxingscene.com/haye-chis...rt-card--54979

[Dan1213]

The WBA and WBO have approved the bout for a vacant title.

What happened to Wladimir????? Now the WBA will have three (3) Heavyweight belt holders; the WBO two (2). Move over WBC you have plenty of company in the world of the absurb!

SANCTIONING FEES ANYONE!!!!!!

Heavyweight (unlimited)
WBC
Vitali Klitschko

WBA
SUPER CHAMPION: Wladimir Klitschko
WORLD CHAMPION: Alexander Povetkin

IBF
Wladimir Klitschko

WBO
Wladimir Klitschko

In his weekly column in The Sun tabloid, promoter Frank Warren explained why tonight’s grudge match between David Haye and Dereck Chisora will be a ten-round bout instead of the normal championship distance of twelve rounds. “When the original contract for the fight was signed, it was over ten rounds and sanctioned by the Luxembourg Boxing Federation, but when the WBO and WBA titles were added to the bout it was hoped that the fight would be extended to the championship distance of twelve rounds. Haye was adamant that he would only fight over ten rounds and stuck with the original contract, with Chisora angry that a former world champion wouldn’t face him over the full distance.”

[KOJOE90]

The band in the ring are crap.

Anyway hope Haye wins as I have no time for Thug For Life Chisora.

[Dan1213]

BoxRec News defies anyone to follow the disease-like spread of supposed 'world' level titles available in boxing today. Our columnist Eric Armit is the expert on this but even the great man himself might struggle with the straps reportedly on offer for the winner of Saturday night's unlicensed (by the BBBoC) heavyweight clash between David Haye and Dereck Chisora.

By Eric Armit, BoxRec

Advertised as being on the line at the time of writing (on the Frank Warren Promotions website) are the 'Vacant WBO and WBA International' titles.

Both have, as one might expect, illustrious histories.

The WBO International title barely registers a mention on the 'governing' body's own website. BoxRec News could only find one - in the rankings for the only WBO International champion they had at the time they were compiled on June 16th. The answer to this most desperately tragic of boxing trivia questions is Filipino flyweight Milan Melindo, who won the vacant title on June 2nd. Of course it was vacant - it was not only the first time the flyweight title had been contested, it was the first time any WBO International title had been boxed for.

There is one other champion and, in this year of celebrating the Jubilee and hosting the Olympics, British chests can swell once more in the knowledge that this was fought for in Southampton on June 30th. If you didn't realise this, you're obviously not a real boxing fan. King Davidson stopped Joseph Lamptey in the second round to take the light-middleweight belt.

With the mildest of interest, we can report that both of these fights were scheduled for twelve rounds. Presumably the WBO went through their typically exhaustive governance review process to determine that their new, sparkly International belt could be fought for by Haye and Chisora over ten rounds rather than the previous, long-established benchmark set over the past six weeks.
It is somewhat strange that the WBO, who are normally all over opportunities to align themselves with high profile fights, have no mention of Haye v Chisora on their website…other than a news article from May 18th saying that they have nothing to do with it. It isn’t listed in their ‘upcoming fights’ section but then again, Kevin Mitchell v Ricky Burns is there, for tomorrow, and I know for sure that’s not happening because my friend and WBO supremo Paco Valcarcel told me it was cancelled some time ago.

So web reliability is perhaps not their greatest strength and we should not put a huge amount of faith in this – though the site was updated as recently as July 9th, without a mention of the Upton Park match. It'll be on the line, don't worry about that.
The picture isn’t really any clearer regarding the WBA International title. According to our records, this belt was first contested at light-heavyweight back in 2001 but then went into a seven-year hiatus. There is a fine tradition of this belt being boxed for at Upton Park. James DeGale won the – yes, vacant – super-middle version by beating Sam Horton in 2010. Amir Khan, Rendall Munroe and Paul Smith are also previous British holders. Some have been scheduled for twelve, some for ten. The WBA are nothing if not accommodating.
But what of the heavyweight version? This is where things become more strange. 24 year-old Polish heavyweight Andrzej Wawrzyk has made this belt his own of late, winning the vacant strap last November and defending it twice since, the last time fewer than five weeks ago. According to the WBA, Wawrzyk was still the champion on the 2nd July.
What’s happened since then? Has he vacated? Has he been stripped? Realboxing fans deserve to know the answers to these burning questions.

To make matters worse - and this is where things get messy - whereas Frank Warren Promotions' website says the WBA International version is on the line, BoxNation states it’s the WBA Inter-Continental title! How are real boxing fans supposed to know where they stand? Which prestigious belt is it, for goodness sake?
In an irony worthy of the denouement of a Sophoclean tragedy, the WBA Inter-Continental version was last fought for in November…by Dereck Chisora when he was harshly treated by judges in Finland when losing to Robert Helenius!
Which iron-clad source does the real boxing fan trust? Frank Warren Promotions’ website or BoxNation’s? Well, Warren has made it clear that he is not promoting the fight, so perhaps we should lean towards the real promoter, BoxNation itself (of which Warren is a shareholder). The WBA said in June that it was for their Inter-Continental title so they must be right...unless something has changed since then.
Phew. Perhaps the best strategy is to relax, enjoy everything the Federation Luxembourgeoise de Boxe has to offer (before they're expelled from the EBU on Sunday) and conclude that whichever belts are on the line, they'll suit the occasion perfectly.

[mrbig1]

Is anyone doing a round by round scoring?

[JaKob]

Early going and David is really breathing trying to keep Chisora off. As i expected in a potential scenario Chisora's pressure and momentum combined with the caapcity to eat Davids shots is really testing Haye's gas tank here.

[JaKob]

Chisora's chin wasn't as good as it seemed in the early going. David had the speed to get something really clean and explosive to the chin and out he went.

[JaKob]

When a 210 pounder who had to add muscle mass simply to get to that weight yet is really nothing more than a natural cruiser...... knocks out Chisora.... the supposed modern day durable grinder.... makes the notion of "old timers were to small to hang with modern heavyweights" seem once again an absolutely asinine one.

[apollack]

Haye showed a lot of footwork, ducking, and incessant clinching, using his usual stinky style. Chisora plodded forward and tried to land but was too slow to land consistently, and did not throw much, in part because Haye would fire a quick shot and then move or grab. Haye was good at not allowing Chisora to get set. He would move or duck or fire or grab. Chisora landed a couple of good shots at the end of one of the rounds, but the idiot ref Luis Pabon stopped the round about 7 seconds early, apparently because he thought he heard the bell. Pabon is another one of those refs who likes to break often and push the fighters back and give little lectures.

In the 5th round, Haye was still throwing light but quick single punches, running around and grabbing. Chisora charged after him, threw a downward slapping right as Haye put his head down, then Haye countered with a beautifully short and fast left hook that nailed Chisora on the jaw, then followed with a right and Derek went down. He rose and tried to clinch and fire back, but Haye just fired away with really fast and powerful short blows and nailed him several times with both hands and Chisora went down hard. He rose slightly unsteady and put his hands up and said he was okay, but the ref stopped it.

[JaKob]

Haye showed a lot of footwork, ducking, and incessant clinching, using his usual stinky style. Chisora plodded forward and tried to land but was too slow to land consistently, and did not throw much, in part because Haye would fire a quick shot and then move or grab. Haye was good at not allowing Chisora to get set. He would move or duck or fire or grab. Chisora landed a couple of good shots at the end of one of the rounds, but the idiot ref Luis Pabon stopped the round about 7 seconds early, apparently because he thought he heard the bell. Pabon is another one of those refs who likes to break often and push the fighters back and give little lectures.

In the 5th round, Haye was still throwing light but quick single punches, running around and grabbing. Chisora charged after him, threw a downward slapping right as Haye put his head down, then Haye countered with a beautifully short and fast left hook that nailed Chisora on the jaw, then followed with a right and Derek went down. He rose and tried to clinch and fire back, but Haye just fired away with really fast and powerful short blows and nailed him several times with both hands and Chisora went down hard. He rose slightly unsteady and put his hands up and said he was okay, but the ref stopped it.

You sure the round was stopped early? not infact late? My commentary feed said it was stopped late because they didn't hear the bell.

On David Haye's style. I don't think he was stinking the place out nor do i think his clinching was anything APPROACHING being THAT bad. He was letting his hands go because he was forced to. He wasn't simply clinching. He was clinching when Chisora was bulling forward, with very little offense, looking simply to push Haye onto the ropes. Haye would fire, clinch, quite often fire on the inside and pivot out. If Haye was simply reaching out to clinch Chisora without engaging akin to Mayweather-Hatton i'd agree. That however wasn't the case Derek Chisora forced Haye to fight in a style that was remotely interesting for a change.

[apollack]

I was watching it on epix.com and their clock said it was early and they made a big deal about it being early. I heard the ten second pounding on the canvas right about then, which tells me it was early. But I could be wrong. Just going off of what I heard live.

I personally do not care for Haye's style. He makes it work because he does have speed and some pop, but he showed me why the Klit fight was so sucky. He would do the same thing in a rematch. He just had a guy in there who was not as good as Klit, so he was able to make it work better. But he didn't sell me on the idea that a bout with either Klit would be entertaining to watch.

[JaKob]

I was watching it on epix.com and their clock said it was early and they made a big deal about it being early. I heard the ten second pounding on the canvas right about then, which tells me it was early. But I could be wrong. Just going off of what I heard live.

I personally do not care for Haye's style. He makes it work because he does have speed and some pop, but he showed me why the Klit fight was so sucky. He would do the same thing in a rematch. He just had a guy in there who was not as good as Klit, so he was able to make it work better. But he didn't sell me on the idea that a bout with either Klit would be entertaining to watch.

His style wasn't appealing to me either. But it wasn't his usual style on display tonight. Because he had no choice in the matter. He wasn't potshotting he was trying to hurt Chisora. Again that's because he was absolutely forced to and had no choice in the matter. He was remotely entertaining in this fight accordingly. Yeah against the Klits i expect him to genuinely stink out the fight.

[jim glen]

good fight it went exactly as many people thought with Chisora pressing, Haye landing and trying to stop Chisora.
it went the way I feared it might, because IF it would have stayed that way Haye would have been beaten!

It finished the way I hoped, and I'm glad, because I can see now that Haye just doesn't have the physical stength too wrestle with the S-HWs, he's simple too small and not strong enough too wrestle or keep them Giants off of him, knock em out sure, but he'd likely never get near them!

good fight though and I'm thrilled for Haye, but as I said he's too small, I still believe we need to seperate the HW's from the S-HW's.

Sorry but I do.

[JaKob]

good fight it went exactly as many people thought with Chisora pressing, Haye landing and trying to stop Chisora.
it went the way I feared it might, because IF it would have stayed that way Haye would have been beaten!

It finished the way I hoped, and I'm glad, because I can see now that Haye just doesn't have the physical stength too wrestle with the S-HWs, he's simple too small and not strong enough too wrestle or keep them Giants off of him, knock em out sure, but he'd likely never get near them!

good fight though and I'm thrilled for Haye, but as I said he's too small, I still believe we need to seperate the HW's from the S-HW's.

Sorry but I do.

Because a bunch of subpar heavyweights in a division that is characterized by fat, out shape, easily gassing, relatively unskilled, relatively inexperienced fighters many nothing more than bloated cruiserweights can't beat one of the klitschko's?

Seriously look at how many out of shape absolutely sloppy and appalling fighters the HW division has. Evander Holyfield was a natural cruiser who although fought with added muscle still had a much smaller frame. This is a man that could hang with a prime Riddick Bowe, get in there and last against a prime Lennox Lewis putting on a much better fight their second time around. The problem isn't simply size. 215 lb Sonny Liston from 59' or so would take this Division apart. The reality is the talent pool is incredibly shallow and lacking in quality with several fighters the likes of Haye not really being genuine Heavyweights in the first place.

[apollack]

Disagree Jim re weight divisions. I still think a Mike Tyson at 218 or prime Holyfield at 210 could more than hold their own with and potentially beat these big monsters. Hell, Haye at 210 just drilled a guy at 247. You put a Joe Louis in with these guys and just wait till he hits that jaw. Height, reach, and weight are definitely helpful factors, but they are not the only factors. Just ask Max Baer after Carnera, or Dempsey after Willard. Or Lamon Brewster before Vlad I.

[jim glen]

Hi Adam, yeah I understand and agree completely, but we're forgeting one thing, Louis, Baer, Dempsey, they didn't have to do it fight after fight!

there are very few smaller HWs anymore, so it means fight after fight you have to tackle the Giants and though a good smaller HW will beat the lesser S-HWs, they won't beat the best of them i.e LL or the Klits and Co.

thats the difference!

[apollack]

Oh well, if they can't beat them then they don't deserve to. But I don't believe in changing the rules just because you can't beat a guy. Get better and beat him. Like how they changed the rules of basketball when Mikan and later Wilt and Russell started dominating. Deal with it. The beauty of the heavyweight division to me is that it should have no weight max or min. It is the division where two guys can simply say I'm the best regardless of weight, and then fight it out to prove it. If a 188 Dempsey beats a 220 Firpo, so be it. And if a 210 Haye beats a 250 Chisora, then there it is. Ali managed to beat a 6'6" Terrell. Holmes beat the 6'7" Cooney. It can be done. And if you can't beat them, then you just aren't the best boxer in the world regardless of weight and you don't deserve to be the world heavyweight champion. Believe me, some smaller heavy will come along and pound out the Klitschos eventually, if they don't retire first. Not if but when. Age catches up to them all.

[apollack]

Tyson dealt with a lot of big dudes. If you can fight you can fight. Alderson 6'4". Richardson 6'6". Conroy Nelson 6'4". Scaff 6'5". Dave Jaco 6'6", Jameson 6'4", Green 6'5", Ribalta 6'5", Smith 6'4", Tucker 6'5", Biggs 6'5", Williams 6'4", Savarese 6'5", Golota 6'4". Mike didn't go around making any excuses and saying 'Oh gee, these guys are too big for me.' Hell no, he got in that ass.

[mrbig1]

As I said before, this would be Haye vs Harrison part 2.

[JaKob]

Hi Adam, yeah I understand and agree completely, but we're forgeting one thing, Louis, Baer, Dempsey, they didn't have to do it fight after fight!

there are very few smaller HWs anymore, so it means fight after fight you have to tackle the Giants and though a good smaller HW will beat the lesser S-HWs, they won't beat the best of them i.e LL or the Klits and Co.

thats the difference!

It doesn't matter if it's fight after fight. For the size advantages there comes implications. Wlad is coordinated for his SIZE but still relatively ponderous with a workrate that is anything but special. A good enough "small" heavyweight should be able to take advantage of this. A "good" smaller heavyweight? What constitutes a good smaller heavyweight these days because frankly i don't see one. That's the problem. A super heavyweight division could only be justified if guys like Wlad held a distinctly and inherently unfair advantage over "small" heavyweights. That just isn't the case because once we start getting over 210 pounds or so pertaining to guys that have genuine Heavyweight frames (liston, Holmes, Ali, Tyson etc) anything can happen and for every size advantage often comes an impairment or compromise in terms of speed, mobility, coordination etc.

[GorDoom]

Haye KOs Chisora in five

By Karl Freitag

Former two-division world champion David Haye (26-2, 24 KOs) scored a spectacular fifth round KO over recent heavyweight title challenger Dereck Chisora (15-4, 9 KOs) on Saturday night on West Ham Football Club’s Boleyn Ground at Upton Park in London. Haye was much busier than Chisora, who was unable to connect with wild shots. Good exchange at the end of round three. Good right by Haye in round five dropped Chisora. Haye dropped him again with his follow-up barrage and the bout was waved off by referee Luis Pabon. Time was 2:59. Very impressive win for Haye as Vitali Klitschko, Robert Helinius and Tyson Fury all failed to stop Chisora in his previous losses. After the fight the fighters hugged and showed respect.

“I’d be very surprised if Vitali Klitschko would want to fight me now after seeing the performance I put on tonight,” said Haye after the fight. “I guarantee he’s going to fight some chump no one’s ever heard of and then try and retire and become a politician or something, but if he wants to give the world a great fight — I’m here!”

Unbeaten middleweight Gary O’Sullivan (15-0, 9 KOs) outpointed Matthew Hall (24-6, 16 KOs) over twelve rounds in a bout for the vacant WBO Euro belt. Scores were 117-111, 115-114, 117-111.

Unbeaten lightweight Liam Walsh (13-0, 10 KOs) scored an eighth round TKO over Domenico Urbano (25-4-1, 10 KOs) to claim the vacant WBO Euro belt. Time was 2:10.

Other results:
Ronnie Heffron W8 Peter McDonagh (super lightweight)
Bradley Saunders W6 Kevin McCauley (welterweight)

[hagler04]

Hi Adam, yeah I understand and agree completely, but we're forgeting one thing, Louis, Baer, Dempsey, they didn't have to do it fight after fight!

there are very few smaller HWs anymore, so it means fight after fight you have to tackle the Giants and though a good smaller HW will beat the lesser S-HWs, they won't beat the best of them i.e LL or the Klits and Co.

thats the difference!

Jim, you don't seem to understand that the HWs are just heavier, not naturally bigger. Only the Klitschkos are quality Heavyweights who are also "super" heavyweights (and they are simply the best of a horrid lot).
The other top Heavyweights (Povetkin, Haye, Chisora, Adamek, Chambers, Peter, Arreola Chagaev) aren't any bigger (and in many cases SMALLER) than the likes of Louis, Liston, Ali, Jefferies, Johnson, Sharkey, Baer Witherspoon, Holyfield etc. I mean Max Baer . . the guy was frikkin' huge. He just fought in an era where guys fought often and being as 'light' as one could be indicated proper conditioning. He didn't have to force-feed himself to get over 200 like Haye, Adamek or Byrd . . the guy went DOWN in weight during training camp, not up like lots of the guys today.

After the K brothers the Super HWs would have . . .who? Robert Helenius who got beaten up by Chisora and was getting beaten by a shot Lyakovich until he knocked him out? Tyson frikkin' Fury? . . If Louis could've fought the likes of them rather than his 'bum of the month' tour of Farr, Godoy, Conn, Walcott, Pastor . . he would've been a very happy camper! Dempsey fought in an era (19teens) of lots of natural super HWs and he found them much easier to take out than the smaller, craftier guys.

The HW division has always had super HWs and some pretty athletic ones too. I mean hell 6'9 Golden Glove winner James J Beattie was a lot better than Tyson Fury.

[Overhand_Right]

there are very few smaller HWs anymore, so it means fight after fight you have to tackle the Giants and though a good smaller HW will beat the lesser S-HWs, they won't beat the best of them i.e LL or the Klits and Co.

thats the difference!

Jim, all of those guys lost to human sized heavyweight. LL got laid out by McCall and Rahman. I thought Holyfield beat him in the rematch. Vitali lost to Byrd. Wlad lost to Brewster, Puritty, Sanders, and looked on his way to defeat vs TOS Williamson. These guys are beatable. Just because there is a slew of indifferent, fat heavyweights you cannot justify creating a Klit and Valuev division, with defences against Tye Fields, Tyson Fury and Price. It is the fault of the heavyweights that these slow, lumbering goons are unchallenged.

[Overhand_Right]

Anyway - great result for David Haye. To brutally waste a guy that all of the giants couldn't even make a dent in was very impressive. As others have said, an old fashioned 210lb heavyweight can do with blurring hands what the big goons cannot. I want to see him fight Vitali Klitschko. Vitali will engage more than Wladimir and David will be forced, as he was here, to mix it up and make something happen. We cannot allow Vitali to ride off into the sun set. We need to see him go down.

[Julian Jackson]

Glad last night's result was a knockout. Chisora got what he deserved. Both fighters are bums, but at least Hayes can punch a little. Offensively, Derek Chisora may have the worst skills of any top ten fighter I have ever seen. He has no technique whatsoever, and just slaps with half of his punches. The fact that Vitali and Helenius couldn't get Chisora out of there says a lot about how limited they both truly are. And, for the record, Haye's knockout last night was good, but his performance was not impressive. He wouldn't last 2 rounds with a Tyson, Bowe, Lewis, or probably even with Razor Ruddock. In my opinion Hayes is similar, but worse than say Tommy Morrison. Morrison definitely hits just as hard, if not harder, and has far better fundamentals. I know I should stop complaining when we did at least get a somewhat entertaining (but amateurish) brawl last night, but, really this shit does nothing to change my opinion about the sad state of this division.

[walshb]

Glad last night's result was a knockout. Chisora got what he deserved. Both fighters are bums, but at least Hayes can punch a little. Offensively, Derek Chisora may have the worst skills of any top ten fighter I have ever seen. He has no technique whatsoever, and just slaps with half of his punches. The fact that Vitali and Helenius couldn't get Chisora out of there says a lot about how limited they both truly are. And, for the record, Haye's knockout last night was good, but his performance was not impressive. He wouldn't last 2 rounds with a Tyson, Bowe, Lewis, or probably even with Razor Ruddock. In my opinion Hayes is similar, but worse than say Tommy Morrison. Morrison definitely hits just as hard, if not harder, and has far better fundamentals. I know I should stop complaining when we did at least get a somewhat entertaining (but amateurish) brawl last night, but, really this shit does nothing to change my opinion about the sad state of this division.

Tommy Morrisson is not a favourite of mine, but he is streets ahead of Haye. Streets! Much more to his game than Haye. Chisora is just a slow plodder with such a limited offensive arsenal. Very poor. I still thought that Haye would stink the joint out for points. I guess maybe I overrated Chisora's punch resistance.

[Overhand_Right]

Morrison was more measured and indeed active than David Haye. I don't think David could keep moving and running and throwing against a marching, ogreish Foreman like Morrison did for 12 rds. That being said, the left hook kayo last night did have shades of The Duke about it.

[hagler04]

Tommy Morrisson is not a favourite of mine, but he is streets ahead of Haye. Streets! Much more to his game than Haye. Chisora is just a slow plodder with such a limited offensive arsenal. Very poor. I still thought that Haye would stink the joint out for points. I guess maybe I overrated Chisora's punch resistance.

Let's not get over-sized rose-tinted glasses and start over-rating Tommy Morrison. I think a Morrison-Haye fight is pretty even. Both are not durable, Morrison's stamina was as bad or worse, he definitely was easier to hit clean than Haye. Tommy did throw better combinations/was better schooled offensively and had a bigger punch.

But Haye is definitely above the level of Michael Bentt. I mean Morrison had to pull on all of his reserves to get past Joe Hipp, Ross Purrity, and Terry Anderson for pete's sake.