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Thread: Jack Johnson Bouts I still haven't found local primary sources

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    Jack Johnson Bouts I still haven't found local primary sources

    Working on a Jack Johnson book. I have obtained most of what is out there, but there are still a few of Johnson's early fights that I haven't pinned down. These are listed in various books and records, either dates and locations unknown, unreported, or incorrect. In particular:

    John Lee
    Bob Thompson
    Howard Pollar
    Jack or George Lawlor - I've seen records that say it took place in Galveston, but I also have seen some things that suggest it might have taken place in either Hot Springs, Arkansas, or Memphis, Tennessee.
    Bob White
    Horace Miles

    If possible, I want to find the correct dates and locations so I can obtain a local primary source. I have checked some dates and locations that have been listed in various records, but they have been incorrect.

    Any help would be much appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Adam Pollack
    apollack11@hotmail.com

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    Re: Jack Johnson Bouts I still haven't found local primary sources

    I hope your book on Jack Johnson is going to kill the myth that his 1913 bout with Battling Jim Johnson was scheduled for 20 rounds and terminated early after 10 rounds due to his arm injury.

    I've always found it disappointing that the CBZ here has kept this nonsense going:

    http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxin...ttling-jim.htm

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    Re: Jack Johnson Bouts I still haven't found local primary sources

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofy Pimple View Post
    I hope your book on Jack Johnson is going to kill the myth that his 1913 bout with Battling Jim Johnson was scheduled for 20 rounds and terminated early after 10 rounds due to his arm injury.

    I've always found it disappointing that the CBZ here has kept this nonsense going:

    http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxin...ttling-jim.htm
    I have not yet thoroughly researched this issue yet, but preliminarily, from what I have read thus far, I think you are correct that it was a scheduled 10-round bout. But not passing definitive judgment just yet.

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    Re: Jack Johnson Bouts I still haven't found local primary sources

    Quote Originally Posted by apollack View Post
    I have not yet thoroughly researched this issue yet, but preliminarily, from what I have read thus far, I think you are correct that it was a scheduled 10-round bout. But not passing definitive judgment just yet.
    I have several references to the Johnson-Johnson bout from the UK trade weekly Boxing News in the lead up to the fight ..... all refer to it as a proposed 10 round bout.

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    Re: Jack Johnson Bouts I still haven't found local primary sources

    Hi Adam,

    Trying to find some info for you but difficult to obtain, just wondering if you had info about fight on 14th August 1901 against Pete Everett @ Gold Coin Club, Victor Colardo which ended in a 20 Round Draw

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    Re: Jack Johnson Bouts I still haven't found local primary sources

    Quote Originally Posted by apollack View Post
    I have not yet thoroughly researched this issue yet, but preliminarily, from what I have read thus far, I think you are correct that it was a scheduled 10-round bout. But not passing definitive judgment just yet.
    Here is the NY Times account of the fight. Tracy Callis pointed out to me that Johnson’s title fights at that time were always scheduled for 20 rounds. He claims the fight ended in the 10th round due to Johnson’s arm injury.

    Tracy feels that the article never addresses the scheduled rounds, only the number of rounds fought.

    What’s your take from reading this report?



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    Re: Jack Johnson Bouts I still haven't found local primary sources


    Colorado Springs Gazette, August 15, 1901

    The article says they sparred 20 rounds to a draw.
    “It was plainly evident that the match was fixed and it was very tame throughout”

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    Re: Jack Johnson Bouts I still haven't found local primary sources

    According to The NY Sun 5th July 1910 on Page 2 - George Lawlor was also known as Jack McCormick - not sure if this is correct

    http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...05/ed-1/seq-2/

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    Re: Jack Johnson Bouts I still haven't found local primary sources

    Yes, I have the August 14 bout. Thanks. I had that report, as well as the Denver Daily News and Denver Post.

    Even the NY Times does not say Johnson vs. Johnson was terminated early. It says it was a 10-round affair. I feel pretty confident that if it had been scheduled for 20 that Johnson would have been in better shape, and would not have stopped after 10 or else he would have lost via retirement. It sounds as if Johnson broke his arm but did what he had to do to last the scheduled 10 rounds.

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    Re: Jack Johnson Bouts I still haven't found local primary sources

    Quote Originally Posted by scribbs View Post
    According to The NY Sun 5th July 1910 on Page 2 - George Lawlor was also known as Jack McCormick - not sure if this is correct

    http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...05/ed-1/seq-2/
    Really hard to say whether it was McCormick or Lawler posing as McCormick. Records that come out many years later are notorious for being inaccurate. The local sources say McCormick, though in later records Johnson is also said to have defeated a Lawler as well, so he probably beat both.

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    Re: Jack Johnson Bouts I still haven't found local primary sources

    I have noticed inaccuracies in records published at a later date even in same papers where a fight was originally reported!

    Hope you can find info you need, will keep checking but seem to have exhausted my available research tools.

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    Re: Jack Johnson Bouts I still haven't found local primary sources

    Adam,

    Just curious to your research, what is the earliest fight date you have uncovered. Boxrec lists 1897 whereas CBZ speculate 1894.

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    Re: Jack Johnson Bouts I still haven't found local primary sources

    The first known primary source account of a Jack Johnson bout is from November 1897.

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