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I know that there is a dedicated section for Y-Tube videos but I just wanted to highlight the recent upload of this video - somewhat rare at least to me - particularly in terms of what's out there containing The Big Cat. Such stuff has an annoying habit of being taken off Y-tube. If this could be moved to the Y-Tube section a bit later? Thanks and enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QvOIWoxV8M
Not a lot of time on my hands but I fast tracked through this fight.
Some notable features - Chuvalo 227 lb and Williams 229 lb! At ages 34 and 38 respectively, not their peak weights but they don't look particularly shabby with the few extra lbs. Lends itself to the point that fighters used to train right down and weren't necessarily so much smaller than some of the Super HWs of today.
Also, Williams reach is listed at an extraordinary 83" with 17" guns. I recall the commentator for the first Liston-Williams fight noting that Williams had a longer reach than Sonny. Not to say that's true but Big Cat clearly had very long arms,
Not sure which rd, but Chuvalo heads to the wrong corner. Took some heavy shots in the rd just gone, perhaps a bit shook but I have seen fighters go to the wrong corner w/out having been necessarily hurt. Big Cat could still sock and laid some very hard leather on George. Also, Cleveland showed some nice durability for a man of his age, particularly given his comeback from the gun shot wound.
Cossell makes the comment that it isn't the most scintillating exhibition of boxing, both guys older and not very good. I read him to mean not just in terms of boxing science but also in terms of entertainment value. I dunno. Perhaps a nolstagia trip but all things considered, I thought it wasn't a bad fight at all and both guys gave an honest and hard effort. Perhaps they were simply spoilt back in the day in terms of relative boxing entertainment. Maybe Cossell was simply off the mark - as he sometimes was.
Finally, perhaps one of the best shots of the fight can be seen just prior to rd 7. It wasn't a punch landed by either fighter. You'll get my drift when you watch the video.
Two of my all time favorite fighters. Thanks PD!
EMF
I watched this fight live - an undercard to a bigger main event which I can't remember! Two of my favorites as well - one of the few time I saw George win a fight against a name opponent. And yes, they weren't trained to a fine edge ... thanks for posting.
No problem - my pleasure. Undercard to Ali-Mathis and they cross to both Muhammad and Buster during the course of the preliminary, with Cosell jibing Ali about his own extra poundage - the good ol' days, not that I'm old enough to remember this one, mind you.
Last edited by PD99; 08-21-2012 at 10:01 PM.
Ali was indeed heavy for this fight with mathis as cosell alluded to. He was indeed a big man who only weighed sub 215 pounds when running very lean.
Another recent upload featuring Williams vs Tod Herring (next fight for Williams was Muhammad Ali).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXNxTq9K2EM
Nice find. Quite the tuneup for Williams. Herring had a brave corner.Originally Posted by PD99
Two of the heavyweights I grew up with. When your a kid you're more impressionable & youthful heroes
stick with you forever... Thanks for posting PD, lots memories...
After awhile I'll move it to the video forum.
GorDoom
Again, my pleasure but the credit goes to the folk generous enough to upload these videos. Heads up - there appears to be a spate of some of the more rare stuff being uploaded at the moment. If you've tried any particular bouts before but come up empty handed it might be worth trying again - you never know your luck.
I always wanted to see Ellis vs Chuvalo. Never did see it.
Does anyone know why the fight is in black & white? The main event, Ali/Mathis, is in colour.
Ellis won a 10 rd decision over Chuvalo - pretty sure it's out there on tape!
You have to give a tip of the hat to Ellis - seemingly not built for demolition derby work on his middleweight frame, he bested both Chuvalo and Bonavena - Frazier was another event all together.
Yeah, like Patterson, Ellis was a bit of wonder in terms of his p4p punch. In the last year I only saw for the first time Ellis' KDs of Bonavena (check Daily Motion site if interested). Ali's 15th rd KD and stoppage of Bonavena was super impressive but as far as KDs go, Ellis turned the trick twice on a relatively fresher Ringo both early (rd 3) and late (rd 10) in their 12 rd'r. No mistake, no flash KDs, those were hard, thumping knockdowns. If I recall, Ellis started like a house on fire against Frazier but it was Smok'n' Joe and eventually dues had to be paid. Not as durable as Ali, Jimmy had to depart around the same point where Ali was forced to start eating and soak up Joe's leather.
I have it on tape. The fight was in Toronto I believe. Ellis won a deserved decision landing the cleaner shots and generally outboxing Chuvalo, as would be expected, but Chuvalo came on strong late and Ellis really had to give it everything he had to last the distance. Chuvalo was just so strong and his body shots were murder. George's main problem were his flat-feet, lack of upper-body/head movement, and how he could tire out himself in the late rounds and not be able to take full advantage of his fatigued opponent. As I've said before, Chuvalo really was a prototype for today's slow-footed, more stationary heavyweights, although he was generally fitter and tougher than the brood of the last 20 years.
As for the Williams-Chuvalo fight, neither guy at their higher weights was fat (again, looking fitter than 98% of today's heavyweights) and shows how the big men of yesteryear trained DOWN in weight to maximize speed and conditioning. Williams in particular, was a huge man. Williams also showed still decent handspeed at 38 and post shooting. Chuvalo for his part throws more combinations than he did in many fights (he also did in the Ali rematch . . I actually think he made a conscious effort to put more punches together in the latter part of his career in the early 70s and it showed results) It's a good, action-filled fight. Cosell was he often was was full of sh%^ and disdainful of two guys putting on a good show. It was certainly far better than Ali-Mathis, which was a complete snoozer.
Chuvalo was in many a great fight wasn't he. I love the Mathis bout when he launches his head at Mathis in the first round and Mathis throws the ref out the way!
Michael Frank - clear your mailbox
eb
Did Big Cat have any sort of mental issues? I read Toshes when I was young and he referred to Williams as something like 'a strange motherfucker, who heard voices', and as such I've always thought of Williams as a frightening mad man. Was this remark by Toshes in any way founded, or just more of his unreliable flights of fancy?
OHR - Not confusing Big Cat with Eddie Machen perhaps?
No, I'm pretty certain he was referring to Williams. Would check, but all my boxing books are at my parent's house!
Did Machen have mental problems? I recall a good story on him and Zora Folley in Boxing Babylon and how their lives seemed intertwined and both died in suspicious circumstances, not far apart.
Yeah, Machen suffered from clinical depression and was admitted to Napa State Hospital in '62 after threatening to commit suicide.
I found an answer to my own question today. The Big Cat fought Dick Richardson in London in 1958, and won when Richardson was disqualified for headbutts. Brought back over for a rematch, Big Cat stayed in bed claiming voices from the next world had advised him not to go through with the fight. There was apparently a photo of the huge Williams in bed, staring blankly into the camera. Strange indeed.
"Machen was found positioned on his right side between a post and a car in the parking lot. There was a high railing outside Machen's apartment and investigators could not immediately determine whether Eddie jumped or fell." (The Name of the Game p.383) Another theory was Machen was a sleep walker.
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