Michael "Dynamite" Dokes Vs Tony "TNT" Tubbs

[SageBrush]

Despite both fighters explosive monikers this to me promises to be more of a boxing match between two very quick-handed individuals, Dokes did look explosive against slow starter weaver, in their 1st meeting, notwithstanding the call of Joey Curtis ( as weaver seemed to be withstanding the flurry of Dokes !) by the return fight draw with weaver, Dokes seemed to already lost some sheen, but still managed a tough 15 rounder, - It would have to be against the Tubbs of the Greg Page Fight, a title winning performance, but like Dokes, to prove a very short prime……could one of them produce an explosive performance..?

Dynamite or TNT …?

[Sharkey]

I think this will be unpopular, but I will go with Tubbs in a totally ugly fight. Tubbs will mute the exchanges, the chances for explosions and remain steady and willing to flurry Dokes. Tubbs' handspeed would serve him well against Mike's lightning fast hands as well. Tubbs was more defensive minded and was much more no-nonsense. Betting with money would make me take Tubbs, who I at least could get a feel for.

Dynamite I bleive, will be convinced he is a banger against Tubbs and it will prove his undoing. Dokes may have looked talented..and may have BEEN the talent many felt was wasted through drugs. However, I don't know how he would do in a stinkfest with Tubbs..with Tony pecking, not opening up, etc.

I can't really name one Tubbs performance I can hang my hat on for this pick. The Page fight was against Greg Page after all. HE made a fool of Bonecrusher..but Smith and Dokes are not at all alike. Tubbs showed a chin and guts (HA!) against Spoon in a gruelling fight where he was grossly overweight. Dokes doesn't hang and slob and grab like Tim.

My pick of Tubbs is based on the my perception that Tubbs was often the same guy fight to fight, whereas Dokes was prone to frenetic then to lethargic. If this asks who had the higher cieling of potential, probably Dokes. Head to head, I like Tubbs to win this one. 15 rounds.

[hawk5ins]

In fact, I break it down like this: Dokes gets tired. Tubbs never really showed that.

In essence, to say Tubbs can do as Dokes can, for a longer period of time, if not necessarily better than Dokes, certainly can lead to a selection of Tubbs.

Hawk

[blv30]

If the fight goes the distance, Tubbs would win due to Dokes' lack of stamina.However, if Dokes catches Tubbs early, and chances are he will, then Dokes would stop him.

[hawk5ins]

Becuase he didn't carry that type of power.

Hawk

[pendleton23]

You know Tubbs was a very talented boxer and if he would have trained harder he could have gone ALOT farther then he did.His handspeed was great and he could really box when he wanted to.I would actually take him over Dokes.

[peter murphy]

tubbs much better boxer he boxes the ears off dokes and wins on pts

[Michael Frank]

tubbs much better boxer he boxes the ears off dokes and wins on pts

I don't see this as true at all. "Much better boxer"?? Dokes was a top amateur, due to his boxing ability, not due to slugging.

As a pro, he engaged more than Tubbs, getting hit more, but Tubbs had no more boxing ability than Dokes, and in my opinion less. Dokes, the partier, was in most of his fights pre-Coetzee a more disciplined trainer and boxer than was the usually underperforming Tubbs. Dokes was faster and knew how to move his head to avoid punches, unlike Tubbs. Dokes had a fine jab and great combinations. Tubbs wasn't as good with either.

Exactly who, of ability anywhere near Dokes, did Tubbs ever box the ears off of? Can you name a couple of people?

[Overhand_Right]

Whilst Peter Murphy seems to be the latest CBZ troll, I have to concur Tubbs was a top class boxer. Michael, he boxed the ears of Riddick Bowe, Greg Page and Bonecrusher! Bowe and Page are either 'as good' as Dokes, if not better (I go with the latter and any number of results bear that out). He also beat Seldon, lost to an inshape Witherspoon by a point when Tubbs himself was in poor condition and boxed Tyson easily until he foolishly started to stand and slug.

I can't fathom this comment - "Dokes was faster and knew how to move his head to avoid punches, unlike Tubbs. Dokes had a fine jab and great combinations. Tubbs wasn't as good with either."
It seems like the names need to be reversed. Tubbs was still boxing into his 50s and took little damage throughout his career because of his fine jab and ability to block or slip a punch. Dokes was always eating punches while getting drawn into some war.

I can't understand why anyone would be so dismissive of Tubbs obvious ability, unless its due to a general distaste for the man and his bad habits? But if we were making personal judgements of boxers Dokes is an infinitely worse humanbeing than Tubbs. I don't know, just a thought.

[Michael Frank]

Whilst Peter Murphy seems to be the latest CBZ troll, I have to concur Tubbs was a top class boxer. Michael, he boxed the ears of Riddick Bowe, Greg Page and Bonecrusher! Bowe and Page are either 'as good' as Dokes, if not better (I go with the latter and any number of results bear that out). He also beat Seldon, lost to an inshape Witherspoon by a point when Tubbs himself was in poor condition and boxed Tyson easily until he foolishly started to stand and slug.

I can't fathom this comment - "Dokes was faster and knew how to move his head to avoid punches, unlike Tubbs. Dokes had a fine jab and great combinations. Tubbs wasn't as good with either."
It seems like the names need to be reversed. Tubbs was still boxing into his 50s and took little damage throughout his career because of his fine jab and ability to block or slip a punch. Dokes was always eating punches while getting drawn into some war.

I can't understand why anyone would be so dismissive of Tubbs obvious ability, unless its due to a general distaste for the man and his bad habits? But if we were making personal judgements of boxers Dokes is an infinitely worse humanbeing than Tubbs. I don't know, just a thought.

Nothing I wrote has anything to do with Tubbs' or Dokes' personality or their issues outside of the ring. I view them equally on that issue.

Tubbs lost to Bowe let's not forget, and certainly we can agree that Bonecrusher Smith didn't have the talent of Dokes. As to Tubbs' obvious ability-- when did he EVER look "great"? Even in victory.

Lasting in boxing into your 50s doesn't make you better at peak than someone who doesn't last that long.

You feel, based on your comment about reversing the names, that Tubbs was faster than a peak Dokes? I don't.

Watch Dokes go toe-to-toe with fighters like Weaver and Gardner and you see a man well-trained at ducking, bobbing/weaving, and then coming up with hooks to the body and head. Tubbs? I don't recall seeing him execute that kind of offense & defense. Jab? Combinations? Watch Dokes destroy guys in one round with lightning-fast combinations, such as Osasio in their 2nd fight, Weaver #1, and Earl Tripp.

As an old fighter? Not that I think this area matters, but I'll take Dokes in his losing performance against Holyfield above any Tubbs career-twilight performance.

No, I have nothing against Tubbs, though I feel he never once fought to his high potential. Even when he won, he won ugly.

Whereas I think Dokes exhibited skills and had performances that were spectacular. I always looked forward to a Dokes fight, and never in my life looked forward to a Tubbs fight.

We apparently have viewed a different Dokes and Tubbs, and I clearly don't have the high regard for Tubbs that I did for Dokes. As fighters. Outside the ring, they both seemed like good guys to me, at least when they were active fighters. Dokes sure did a heinous thing to an ex-girlfriend later in life, for which he went to prison, but none of that is part of my assessment here.

[Sharkey]

Not for nothing, but, I dont think either man "outboxed" a very good boxer. Prime.

this then begs what a 'very good boxer' is.

When Tubbs beat Page, wait a minute.. ok, I got sick thinking about the hours spent watching that dog of a fight... Page was the one that may have landed the best shots of the bout. But, there is no question Tubbs 'outpointed' him.

Dokes outboxed who exactly that was top-class.

So, I believe Dokes would need to lay some hurt on Tubbs to win, and I dont think he would. Why is the onus on Dokes? Because Tubbs pecked and pecked better than Dokes did.

Someone thinks Dokes wins that's cool. I dont think we would see a classic display of smooth boxing here. And I liked Tubbs. He looked like a badass and I went along nodding with all who talked about his boxing skills. I really think he fought like his physique: everything was squishy and tight at the same time. The fight would be harder on the eyes and more infuriating on the brain than trying to secure a car-seat base to those hidden safety latches in dead of night.

[Overhand_Right]

Sharkey I'm with you. I don't see Tubbs mixing it up with Dokes and he was very difficult to outbox, and Dokes doesn't have the one punch bomb to turn it around.

I take issue with Tubbs 'never outboxing a very good boxer'. He outboxed Greg Page and Riddick Bowe with relative ease, even if they were dull bouts. This was when Bowe was breaking everyone else's head. Tubbs also had an easy time with Orlin Norris and Bruce Seldon, both of whom were talented boxers in their day. The crazy bastard was almost certainly off his face on coke in all of these fights as well, which makes it even more remarkable.

[Overhand_Right]

(at least for me)

[Sharkey]

Sharkey I'm with you. I don't see Tubbs mixing it up with Dokes and he was very difficult to outbox, and Dokes doesn't have the one punch bomb to turn it around.

I take issue with Tubbs 'never outboxing a very good boxer'. He outboxed Greg Page and Riddick Bowe with relative ease, even if they were dull bouts. This was when Bowe was breaking everyone else's head. Tubbs also had an easy time with Orlin Norris and Bruce Seldon, both of whom were talented boxers in their day. The crazy bastard was almost certainly off his face on coke in all of these fights as well, which makes it even more remarkable.

OR: I took 'very good boxer' or 'talented boxer' to mean a guy that was a stylistically very good boxer with textbook moves. Bowe and Page weren't that. Bowe wasn't a 'boxer' he was a box punch guy who was really a stalker. Page maybe was, at times. Seldon wasn't when Tubbs fought him, and Norris may have been but I wouldn't call him very good at 'boxing' though he didnt have tons of power.

[Overhand_Right]

Fair enough. I'd think a box punch stalker guy who's 6'5'' is a more ominous proposition to outbox than Michael Dokes anyway.

Norris looked a very good boxer in his seemingly pretty ignored run of outpointing Greg Page, Renaldo Snipes, Oliver McCall and Tony Tucker while barely losing a round. Like a Terry Norris without the oomph power shots. He also did a nice job boxing Tyson until Tyson did his best Terry Norris impersonation after the bell.

[Sharkey]

I was keying in on this being in some circles portrayed as a match between two neat-boxing masters. I dont think that's the case. I actually think of Tubbs as a slickster-cutie with speedy hands and also without the kick in his punch many cuties had. I think of Dokes as a flashy-handed guy with decent power. I think your snappy 'very good boxer' type is quite rare in the heavyweight ranks, actually. Just pondering the term out loud and running with it...to ill effect perhaps.

If either was the classic 'boxer' here, it's Tubbs.

[blv30]

Still say, six year later, that if Dokes, who was quicker than Tubbs, catches Tony early, he will have him out of there.And with Michael's aggressiveness, he could do it.The man was floored by Clarence Hill, for Pete's sake.