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Thread: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

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    GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling


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    Re: GUILTY,Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    May they rot in hell for the rest of their lives. I hope Lay gets a horny cellmate named Bubba. & Skilling gets an equally horny cellmate named Big Tiny.

    Of course they will probably end up on one of those prison "spas" that they send the rich to.

    GorDoom

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    their personal bank accounts should be devided among former enron employees. their property sold off to do the same.
    greg

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Lay, Skilling Convicted in Enron Trial
    By KRISTEN HAYS, AP

    HOUSTON (May 25) -- Former Enron Corp. chiefs Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling were convicted Thursday of conspiracy to commit securities and wire fraud in one of the biggest business scandals in U.S. history.
    The Enron Verdicts
    A jury has decided on charges that Enron's top executives hid fraud from investors and enriched themselves illegally.

    Enron founder Ken Lay
    Getty Founder of Enron Corp.
    Guilty on six counts of conspiracy, wire fraud and securities fraud.

    Jeffrey Skilling Ex-CEO of Enron Corp.

    Guilty on 19 counts, including fraud and conspiracy; innocent on nine counts
    The verdict put the blame for the 2001 demise of the high-profile energy trader, once the nation's seventh-largest company, squarely on its top two executives. It came in the sixth day of deliberations following a federal criminal trial that lasted nearly four months.

    Lay was also convicted of bank fraud and making false statements to banks in a separate, non-jury trial before U.S. District Judge Sim Lake related to Lay's personal banking.

    The conviction was a major win for the government, serving almost as a bookend to an era that has seen prosecutors win convictions against executives from WorldCom Inc. to Adelphia Communications Corp. and homemaking maven Martha Stewart. The public outrage over the string of corporate scandals led Congress to pass the Sarbanes-Oxley act, designed to make company executives more accountable.

    What's Next:
    Sentencing: Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling are scheduled to be sentenced Sept. 11. Both men are free on bond until then.

    Maximum Terms: Lay faces up to 45 years in prison for the charges in the corporate trial, and 120 years for charges he was convicted of in a separate personal banking trial. Skilling faces a maximum 185-year sentence.

    Doing Time: The prison where a white-collar criminal serves can be almost as important as the length of the sentence, one defense lawyer says. Details:
    Best Places To Go To Prison

    Top Prison Camps

    New York - Two disgraced Enron executives, founder Kenneth Lay and former CEO Jeffrey Skilling, were found guilty on all six counts and 19 of 28 counts, respectively. Both face lengthy prison terms.

    Where they will serve their time can be almost as important as how much time they'll do, says Alan Ellis, a former president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. Ellis now specializes in the defense of white-collar offenders.

    Although criminals don't get to choose their prisons, they can make requests. And assuming their desired location matches their security classification, as defined by the Bureau of Prisons--minimum, low, medium or high--and has space available, requests are often honored.

    Often, but not always. Take the case of Samuel Waksal, the former ImClone Systems (nasdaq: IMCL - news - people ) CEO, who requested to serve his seven-year sentence at Eglin Federal Prison Camp in Florida. (Eglin was once considered so cushy that the term "Club Fed" was actually coined to describe it. It was recently closed.) Instead, Waksal was shipped off to the Schuylkill Federal Correctional Institute in Minersville, Pa., which did not make our list.

    And the fates of crooked corporate titans like former Tyco (nyse: TYC - news - people ) Chief Executive Dennis Kozlowski and Adelphia (other-otc: ADELQ - news - people ) founder John Rigas can hardly be encouraging either. Kozlowski will serve up to 25 years of hard time in a New York state prison, while Rigas, who is free pending an appeal, was sentenced to 15 years in the can.

    The days of "Club Fed"--think golf courses and lobster bakes--are long gone. But minimum security facilities, known as federal prison camps, are the best suited for disgraced CEOs and other white-collar criminals. In theory, inmates in these camps show no risk of violence or escape. Both shoe-mogul Steven Madden and Martha Stewart are FPC alums.

    Meet the Players

    Why are prison camps the way to go, if you must go at all? Among other perks, federal prison camps have a relatively low staff-to-inmate ratio, dormitory-style accommodations and little to no fencing. In fact, inmates could walk away from these camps. Few do, however, because recaptured inmates face severe consequnces.


    You Be the Judge

    While some of the minimum security facilities still stand on their own, it is increasingly common to have camps lie adjacent to larger and more secure institutions, particularly low-security federal correctional institutions.

    "It used to be that those freestanding facilities were considered to be more relaxed," says David Novak, a former Microsoft (nasdaq: MSFT - news - people ) consultant who served time in a federal prison camp for mail fraud. "The differences now really come down to convenience for family, weather and things of that nature."

    Ellis says the quality of life among staff members also can make one prison more pleasant than another. "Happier staff makes for happier inmates," he says.

    Enron's demise alone took with it more than $60 billion in market value, almost $2.1 billion in pension plans and 5,600 jobs.

    Enron founder Lay was convicted Thursday on all six counts against him in the corporate trial. Former Chief Executive Skilling was convicted on 19 of the 28 counts, including one count of insider trading, and acquitted on the remaining nine.

    "Obviously, I'm disappointed," Skilling told reporters outside the courthouse. "But that's the way the system works."

    Skilling's lawyer, Dan Petrocelli, said the verdict "doesn't change our view of what happened at Enron ... or Jeffrey Skilling's innocence."

    Lake ordered Lay to stay in the courthouse until his passport was surrendered and until the conclusion of a 2 p.m. CDT bond hearing.

    Lake told jurors, "you have reflected on this evidence for the last few days and reached a very thorough verdict, and I thank you."

    He set sentencing for Sept. 11. The charges for which Lay was convicted carry a maximum penalty in prison of 45 years in the corporate trial and 120 years in the personal banking trial. The charges for which Skilling was convicted carry a maximum penalty of 185 years in prison.

    Jurors found through their verdict that both men had repeatedly lied to cover a vast web of unsustainable accounting tricks and failing ventures at Enron.

    The panel rejected Skilling's insistence that no fraud occurred at Enron other than that committed by a few executives skimming millions in secret side deals, and that bad press and poor market confidence combined to sink the company.

    "I wanted very, very badly to believe what they were saying, very much so, and there were pieces in the testimony where i felt their character was questioned," juror Wendy Vaughan said after the verdict was announced.

    Both men testified in their own defense. Skilling is expected to appeal.

    The government's victory caps a 4 1/2 year investigation that garnered 16 guilty pleas from ex-Enron executives, including former Chief Financial Officer Andrew Fastow and former Chief Accounting Officer Richard Causey.

    All are awaiting sentencing later this year except for two, who either finished or are still serving prison terms.

    The Lay-Skilling case tested the federal government's ability to prove complicated corporate skullduggery.

    Enron's implosion and the subsequent scandals scared off investors, increased regulatory scrutiny over publicly traded companies and prompted Congress to stiffen white collar penalties.

    Former WorldCom head Bernard Ebbers awaits a 25-year prison term for orchestrating the $11 billion accounting fraud that bankrupted the company. Stewart did five months in prison and more time confined to work and home for lying about a stock sale. Adelphia Communications founder John Rigas and his son got double-digit prison terms for looting their company.

    HealthSouth Corp. founder Richard Scrushy bucked the trend with his acquittal last year of fraud charges despite five former finance chiefs pointing the finger at him in a $2.7 billion scheme to inflate earnings. He dropped in on the Lay-Skilling case during Fastow's lengthy testimony in March, saying the ex-CFO couldn't be believed.

    But those cases were much simpler than that against Lay and Skilling.

    The government's vast investigation seemed to stall until Fastow pleaded guilty in January 2004 to two counts of conspiracy and paved the way for prosecutors to secure indictments against his bosses. Fastow also led investigators to Causey, who was bound for trial alongside Lay and Skilling until he broke ranks with their unified defense and pleaded guilty to securities fraud just weeks before the trial began.

    Associated Press writers Mike Graczyk and Erin McClam in Houston contributed to this report.

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Don't get yourselves up in a lather over this. Shrub Bush will pardon them both before they serve a minute in jail.

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Not until the day he leaves office. If he did it now his poll #'s would shrivel to 0.9

    GorDoom

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    >>>Not until the day he leaves office. If he did it now his poll #'s would shrivel to 0.9<<<


    Oh, he is going to reach that without any pardons...bar-none the absolute worst president this country has ever had. I just hope that there is a big change this November, then hopefully they will impeach his sorry ass!

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Okay, we gotta stop now ... We don't want to divert into political discussion here because we all know how that turns out on this board ... Flame war chaos.

    & Barry while I may agree with you 100%, we just can't go there or into religion on this board.

    Holy hell breaks loose when we do.

    GorDoom

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    I don't think it's political, it's criminal so let's not make it political.

    Frank B.

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Mr. B:

    I agree completely this situation is criminal not political. But when we veer off into talking about impeaching the president, then we're getting political.

    But this case? They're just fucking criminal, greed pig, skells.

    GorDoom

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    I agree that both Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling deserve hard time
    in slammer and to lose every cent they own for what they did
    to both the stockholders and the employees of Enron.

    - Chuck Johnston

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    George Bush will be getting ready to leave office right around the time Lay and Skilling exhaust their appeals, so consequences and poll numbers will have no bearing.

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Ah, are you intimating that Mr. Bush may be considering a move into the territory so boldly explored by that paragon of virtue William Jefferson Clinton before him? Seems like there may even have been a questionable pardon or two on Slick Willie's resume, as difficult as that is to believe. But only Bush will be a bad guy for it, right?

    Sorry. I couldn't resist. PeteLeo.

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Actually Pete, EVERY president when he has left office has declared some more than dubious pardons. Clinton certainly did & so did Bush Sr., Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Eisenhower & Truman.

    This is a practice that goes all the way back to Washington, himself. Probably the only presidents that didn't do it were Lincoln, Roosevelt & Kennedy. & that's only because two of them were blown away & the other died, all while still in office.

    It's hard to pardon somebody when your dead.

    But back to Bubba & Big Tiny & the wicked, perverted things they are going to do to those two skells.

    GorDoom

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Yeah, granted, Clinton did play the sleazy pardon game. Nobody's saying that it's a partisan thing; like Bucket sez, birds do it, bees do it, Dems and GOPs do it...

    The best we can hope for from the Enron verdict is that it makes some of America's corporate greedheads, who think they are teflon-coated, sit up and realize that bad things can, indeed, happen to them after all. If the Enron verdicts have any deterrent effect, they will have been worth the expense.

    But chances are good that Kenny Boy will never dance with Bubba or Big Tiny.

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Damn! What pisses me off the most is that deep inside is I know you're absolutely on the MONEY on this, 'Scribe ... Those two goniffs, especially Lay, will skate sooner rather than later.

    AMERICA ... Land of the free unless you're poor, of color or just beige white, deep in credit card debt, & with no above minimum wage job prospects.

    But Lay gets to stay out of The House Of Many Slammers until he runs through years of appeals by which time the old geezer will be ready to kak anyway ...

    In the meantime, he lives like a king without a thought to all the thousands if not hundred of thousands of employees & investors he reamed with sand, not bothering with the vaseline ...

    Fuck Lay & Skilling.

    In the neck.

    GorDoom

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck1052
    I agree that both Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling deserve hard time
    in slammer and to lose every cent they own for what they did
    to both the stockholders and the employees of Enron.

    - Chuck Johnston

    Not to mention the spawning of the opressive Sarbanes-Oxley laws that all businesses must now go through which is time consuming,costly and idiotic to the point where you can't do the job you were hired for.Business personel are spending hours upon hours with external auditors costing valuable production time $$$.Funny thing is the CEO's who are the ones who should be the ones doing the dirty work for these auditors won't hire more people to help out,yet they are the ones that have to answer for any improprieties.Shit floats down.

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    American big business has only itself to blame for SarbOx. The extra work is a cost of doing business since it's the price of entry into the US capital markets. If companies don't want the extra work, the answer is simple: go private.

    I don't know about Lay and Skilling living like kings. Their lawyers alone cost them $70 million bucks. And between criminal restitution and civil class action suits, those boys are going to be paying until Doomsday.

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Doesn't Lay still own 6 mansions in different states? Like you said, 'Scribe, the piper does not have to be paid until the appeals run out ... & we both know that will take years & in the meantime instead of being remanded like any other skell they are free to continue their cushy lives.

    70 million for lawyers? For them it's the equivelant of 70K for mopes like us.

    Again, I hope Bubba & Big Tiny end up fucking them in the neck ...

    GorDoom

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Skilling and Lay were in denial until the bitter end.

    Lay: "I am a dolt" defense rejected by jury.

    Skilling: " Nobody but me understands Enron'' defense rejected by jury.

    Sadly, the bad news is that no amount of justice on this earth can negate the evil they have done. Joyfully, good news is that they won't be of this earth forever!

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling


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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    It's a shame that he didn't get to spend a few years in jail...maybe a heart-attack induced by a rather large-blunt-phallic-like instrument!

    Seriously, it's awful for people to die, but if people do have to die there are none more deserving than the Kenneth Lay's of the world and those of his ilk!!!

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    On one of the cable news stations Wednesday, there was some discussion as to the possibility that Lay had intentionally incited a heart attack with drugs. At his age and with his past health history, he was most probably facing life behind bars, and maybe he just couldn't deal with that. I've only been in the "minor leagues" (reform schools, county lockup for a few months), but I can tell you that it's a bad, bad experience. PeteLeo.

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Are they saying that it may have been suicide? I've been in the minors as well...and no it is most certainly nothing pleasant, but compared to what suicide would bring a person, if you believe that a person will go to hell for such, then prison would be a picnic compared and at least a place to make amends with God...if the person believes in God!

    My first comments were a bit harsh about someone deserving death moreso than someone else, but I have no sympathy at all for a suicide!!! I have lost several friends over the years who decided to take they're life and the people I feel bad for was the family because they certainly go through some of the worst pain I have ever witnessed. One guy I use to get high with back in the late 80s blew his brains out in front of his mother and father...he told them, "I'll see you in hell" and it has really done a number on that man and woman who are both very decent people! I guess what is most sad is that I have had so many friends take the chickenshit route that now whenever I hear about someone killing themselves it really doesn't even shock me any more...I don't know if it is simply because I am just numb to it now, or what!
    Last edited by BDeskins; 07-08-2006 at 02:44 AM.

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    No evidence was introduced about the suicide angle; it was just speculation.

    I just read on the IMDb that a 55 year old soap opera actor (currently employed) killed himself on the 3rd of this month after his mother died. Robert Howard, the writer who invented the ultimate Tough Guy, Conan the Barbarian, did the same thing.

    I've known a few suicides and once talked a cousin out of it. You never really know what's going on inside another person's head or heart. In the final examination, we're all alone here. PeteLeo.

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Been in the "Minor Leagues" (Jail), I think that an experience that everyboby should experience at least once in their life time.

    Frank B.

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    Okay, but, to quote Tony Orlando from "Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree," "I've done my time, I'm coming home . . . ." PeteLeo.

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    The punk would have spent the rest of his life behind bars, anyway.
    Goodbye and good riddance, small man who stole money from and put countless of good hardworking Americans on poverty row.
    May you rot in hell, little man.

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    when the good lord places his hand on a mans shoulder... it is time to remove ours.
    greg

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    Re: GUILTY, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling

    The conspiracy kooks are going to have a field day with these suicide rumors, but you have to ask yourself: Is a guy who had to lie, cheat and steal to make his life a little cushier capable of offing himself. I doubt it. He was just another Type A exec done in by his bad lifestyle. The shame of it is that his untimely death will end up wiping out the govt's forfeiture proceedings and probably screw tens of thousands of former Enron shareholders all over again.

    One thing you have to say: He died just as he lived.

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