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Thread: Manuel Ortiz: Overlooked Great!

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    Manuel Ortiz: Overlooked Great!

    I've admired Manuel Ortiz for quite a time and consider him one of the overlooked greats today as he doesnt seem to get mentioned much yet took part in over 20 world title fights... when title fights were title fights!!.... just wondering if any of you out there have any info on Manuel, memories etc, I've not seen any of his fights, so information like that would be great, also any pics... and where would you guys rate Manuel amongst the great bantams?...

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Fatcity

    I seen Ortiz fight late in his career , an I think he was the greatest BW of all times.

    Frank B.

    Go to Calif. boxing an see more of Ortiz ( Pics. )
    Last edited by kikibalt; 06-05-2006 at 03:36 PM.

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Yeah, its a shame he doesnt get more recognition and isnt mentioned more often, though he's from an earlier era than say Olivares. Its quite amazing how long he was at the top for... '42 to 50... save for the defeat to Dade... would you rate him over Olivares and Zarate?...

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Quote Originally Posted by fatcity
    Yeah, its a shame he doesnt get more recognition and isnt mentioned more often, though he's from an earlier era than say Olivares. Its quite amazing how long he was at the top for... '42 to 50... save for the defeat to Dade... would you rate him over Olivares and Zarate?...

    Yes,Yes on both.

    Frank

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Thats interesting, I'd certainly rate Ortiz up there with Olivares and Zarate... I think maybe he had a better chin than Olivares. Al Brown would be up there as well, he and Ortiz would be a tough one to call... what was Ortiz's style, was he a swarming infighter or more of a box/fighter...

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Fatcity

    I would say that Ortiz was a boxer/puncher, the other BW that I would say was in his class was Eder Jofre.

    Frank

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Frank and Fat City:

    I had a juicy, lengthy reply on my friend Manuel Ortiz ready to post and the blasted thing just disappeared, phewt! And it evaporated!

    So I'll just say that I'm old as the hills, have seen dozens of terrific Mexican fighters but I don't think there has ever been one as great as Manuel Ortiz-----in shape or out of shape!
    Lou Magana agreed with me on that point as late as ten years ago, when he came down to San Diego to visit with me. And to me he was the last of the master feinters. He did it with his head, his fists or his body. It was innate in Manuel Ortiz. Who does it today?

    The Casanovas (Rodolfo and Sandy), Arizmendi, Azteca, Aragon, my friend Enrique Bolanos, Zurita et al. I saw them all in their prime and they all had that rather intangible something conducive to ring greatness. But Manolo had it all, friends. Honestly. He only fought as hard as he wanted to most of the time. Some critics don't buy that, of course.


    hap navarro

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Well Hap

    I buy It.

    Frank

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Yeah, Jofre was another great boxer, incidentally I have his fights with Harada, where Harada beat him twice, in close fights, do you think Jofre was below par in those fights or did Harada just have the style to beat him?... usually when people rate Harada and Jofre amongst the alltimers they put Jofre higher than Harada which I think is rather unfair considering Harada beat him twice and also should have been a three weight champion if he hadnt been robbed against Famechon.

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Quote Originally Posted by dongee
    Frank and Fat City:

    I had a juicy, lengthy reply on my friend Manuel Ortiz ready to post and the blasted thing just disappeared, phewt! And it evaporated!

    So I'll just say that I'm old as the hills, have seen dozens of terrific Mexican fighters but I don't think there has ever been one as great as Manuel Ortiz-----in shape or out of shape!
    Lou Magana agreed with me on that point as late as ten years ago, when he came down to San Diego to visit with me. And to me he was the last of the master feinters. He did it with his head, his fists or his body. It was innate in Manuel Ortiz. Who does it today?

    The Casanovas (Rodolfo and Sandy), Arizmendi, Azteca, Aragon, my friend Enrique Bolanos, Zurita et al. I saw them all in their prime and they all had that rather intangible something conducive to ring greatness. But Manolo had it all, friends. Honestly. He only fought as hard as he wanted to most of the time. Some critics don't buy that, of course.


    hap navarro
    I think a lot of the oldtime greats were like that, they only brought out of themselves what they needed to win... perhaps because they were so busy, fighting so often, like in '43 I think Manuel defended his world title 8 times!... someone should try telling some of todays champs to defend at least 4 times!!... they'd probably have a fit...

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Fatcity

    I seen Eder Jofre fight in person twice ( In the 1960s ) and I think that him and Ortiz were the two top BWs, but having said that I have to admit that Harada was one tough s/b.

    Frank

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...


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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Great topic. I love to see info about Manuel Ortiz, and I only feel bad that Hap's potential post disappeared! I have also never seen him fight, but have read a lot about him and am currently following his career through the LA Times archive.

    The one thing that separates Ortiz from everybody, whether you consider him the best bantam or not, is that he literally fought everybody. No bantamweight can say they fought as many Top 10 contenders as Ortiz and guys like David Kui Kong Young and Theo Medina among others would surely have been champions if Ortiz was not around and Lou Salica would have probably reigned much longer. If Ortiz lost a nontitle fight to a contender, the contender got a shot. Simple as that. One thing that irritates me about Zarate's high placement is that he didn't fight the same level of opposition as the other bantams such as Olivares, Ortiz, Harada, Al Brown, etc. When you have title defenses against Waruinge Nakayama, Fernando Cabanella, and Juan Rodrigues, that shouldn't really count. None of those fighters could compare to the defenses of the other great champs.

    Plus, if Zarate actually had to face a smooth fighter like Ortiz, or a puncher with the nonstop punching and pressure of Harada, or a fighter with the all-around boxing ability of Jofre, or the specter of fighting an even taller fighter than himself in Panama Al Brown with better boxing ability, or the compact aggressiveness of Olivares, Zarate loses all of those matchups IMO. Power is overrated when fighting fighters of that skill level.

    Deepak

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    You are so right Deepak.

    It always seemed to me that Manuel Ortiz was a man among boys when he was atop the bantam class in California. He would be nailed solidly on the chin shake off the shot and fire back with both hands until his opponent backed off or dropped. His all-out wars with pal but Iron Man Carlos Chavez were classics, so terrific that one of the fights had to be moved to a ball park to accomodate the fans.

    His main drawback was that he was a born battler who detested the rigors of training routines. Add to that the fact that he could never abide by total abstinence and you have a master ring craftsman operating at about 60% of his natural ability.

    Men, this champ didn't fully understand his God-given gifts. He simply did was natural to him.

    hap navarro

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    hap,

    what can you tell us about the manuel ortiz- benny goldberg fights. i see manuel lost his first pro fight to benny and then lost to him twice more before winning a 15 in a title defense. seems benny could fight a bit.
    greg

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    A number of old-timers regard David Kui Kong Young as
    the best Hawaiian fighter ever.

    It is my understanding that Manuel Ortiz was fed to
    the wolves early in his career, facing Bennie Goldberg,
    a very good southpaw; and Pablo Dano, a top fighter
    for many years.

    - Chuck Johnston

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Greg:

    I wondered at those early losses to Bennie Goldberg myself until I really began to factor in boxing styles. Bennie, whom I did not know personally until about 1994 when he came to San Diego to look me up, was a very capable boxer. Fleet as a thoroughbred inside those ropes, cagey and elusive, a master at old stick and run combat. And he was a southpaw!

    Heck, I think he only lost a couple of times during his career. His record is quite remarkable, with wins over many of the top contemporary bantams; he even beat Abe Denner, a lanky sort who towered over him.

    With Manuel in the service during WWII, Goldberg won some recognition as "duration" bantam champ by beating Luis Castillo, who hd claimed that honor with a win over Tony Olivera.

    When we consider that Manuel did not blossom into ring generalship until he came under the management of Tommy Farmer, the losses to ringwise foes like Bennie Goldberg and Pablo Dano are understandable, if not excusable. He became more attuned to his role as a top contender and trained seriously for his title defense against Bennie.

    To digress a bit:

    Bennie told me he had dropped Manuel in one of their bouts. Because I somehow missed out on the early meetings, I can't know for certain. But Bennie had no reason to embellish his performances. Hell, he got the decision each time, nuff said.

    When my wife and I met Bennie and his wife, Lynnette at Coronado for lunch, he had come down to ask me to write a shooting script for a movie based on the life of Mickey Cohen, whom he had known. The lead was already cast, he told us. Sorry to say I turned the bid down, fearful of treading where I had never gone before. He said writers were plentiful in Hollywood, but he wanted someone who had lived through the Cohen years. Bennie had been putting film packages together in Hollywood for some time, apparently.

    Will try to be less windy.

    hap

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    My apologies, fellows!

    That line in the first paragraph of the Bennie Goldberg post should read "stick and move", which is a great defensive maneuver. Bennie was an ace at befuddling the opposition to pile up points enroute to winning his fights. To my knowledge there is no such thing as "stick and run."

    And Chuck Johnston is absolutely right in his post on Manuel's early ring days. He usually is right on the money when it comes to boxing lore. Thanks, Chuck, for backing the old man.

    hap

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    "No such thing as a stick and run" style in boxing? Did you ever seen Derrick Gainer's "fight" with Juan Manuel Marquez? PeteLeo.

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Quote Originally Posted by kikibalt
    Fatcity

    I seen Eder Jofre fight in person twice ( In the 1960s ) and I think that him and Ortiz were the two top BWs, but having said that I have to admit that Harada was one tough s/b.

    Frank
    Yeah, its impressive the way Eder came out of retirement and won the world Featherweight title... I've heard people say that he was a bit like a miniture Robinson... Harada has to be one of the most dynamic fighters I've seen and he could box as well, I have his rematch with Medel where after being koed in their first fight he outboxes Medel the second time round... I love the way Harada used to run out for every round... shame he and Olivares never fought as that would have been some fight....

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Quote Originally Posted by dnahar
    Great topic. I love to see info about Manuel Ortiz, and I only feel bad that Hap's potential post disappeared! I have also never seen him fight, but have read a lot about him and am currently following his career through the LA Times archive.

    The one thing that separates Ortiz from everybody, whether you consider him the best bantam or not, is that he literally fought everybody. No bantamweight can say they fought as many Top 10 contenders as Ortiz and guys like David Kui Kong Young and Theo Medina among others would surely have been champions if Ortiz was not around and Lou Salica would have probably reigned much longer. If Ortiz lost a nontitle fight to a contender, the contender got a shot. Simple as that. One thing that irritates me about Zarate's high placement is that he didn't fight the same level of opposition as the other bantams such as Olivares, Ortiz, Harada, Al Brown, etc. When you have title defenses against Waruinge Nakayama, Fernando Cabanella, and Juan Rodrigues, that shouldn't really count. None of those fighters could compare to the defenses of the other great champs.

    Plus, if Zarate actually had to face a smooth fighter like Ortiz, or a puncher with the nonstop punching and pressure of Harada, or a fighter with the all-around boxing ability of Jofre, or the specter of fighting an even taller fighter than himself in Panama Al Brown with better boxing ability, or the compact aggressiveness of Olivares, Zarate loses all of those matchups IMO. Power is overrated when fighting fighters of that skill level.

    Deepak
    I agree, Ortiz's record reads like a whos who of his era, he was fighting top guys almost from the start yet still lasted a long time at the top, which says a lot for his ability. All respect to Zarate as a great champ but I've always thought of him as being a bit too robotic... it certainly worked for him, but I think slicker and faster boxers would gain an edge over him through that... though he would have a punchers chance against anyone I think, including Olivares...

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Quote Originally Posted by dnahar
    Great topic. I love to see info about Manuel Ortiz, and I only feel bad that Hap's potential post disappeared! I have also never seen him fight, but have read a lot about him and am currently following his career through the LA Times archive.

    The one thing that separates Ortiz from everybody, whether you consider him the best bantam or not, is that he literally fought everybody. No bantamweight can say they fought as many Top 10 contenders as Ortiz and guys like David Kui Kong Young and Theo Medina among others would surely have been champions if Ortiz was not around and Lou Salica would have probably reigned much longer. If Ortiz lost a nontitle fight to a contender, the contender got a shot. Simple as that. One thing that irritates me about Zarate's high placement is that he didn't fight the same level of opposition as the other bantams such as Olivares, Ortiz, Harada, Al Brown, etc. When you have title defenses against Waruinge Nakayama, Fernando Cabanella, and Juan Rodrigues, that shouldn't really count. None of those fighters could compare to the defenses of the other great champs.

    Plus, if Zarate actually had to face a smooth fighter like Ortiz, or a puncher with the nonstop punching and pressure of Harada, or a fighter with the all-around boxing ability of Jofre, or the specter of fighting an even taller fighter than himself in Panama Al Brown with better boxing ability, or the compact aggressiveness of Olivares, Zarate loses all of those matchups IMO. Power is overrated when fighting fighters of that skill level.

    Deepak
    I agree, Ortiz's record reads like a whos who of his era, he was fighting top guys almost from the start yet still lasted a long time at the top, which says a lot for his ability. All respect to Zarate as a great champ but I've always thought of him as being a bit too robotic... it certainly worked for him, but I think slicker and faster boxers would gain an edge over him through that... though he would have a punchers chance against anyone I think, including Olivares...

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...



    Hap

    Here's Luis Castillo who you mentioned in one of your posts, an who fought Manuel Ortiz 2 or 3 times.

    Frank

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Quote Originally Posted by kikibalt


    Hap

    Here's Luis Castillo who you mentioned in one of your posts, an who fought Manuel Ortiz 2 or 3 times.

    Frank
    Frank:

    Luisito was something of a ring rarity. He stood all of 4'11" in height with a blockbuster build on a tiny frame. He was a heluva banger with a right hand and in fact came to California with a Mexican nickname of "El Acorazado de Bolsillo"----"The Pocket Battleship".

    He remains the only Mexican battler to fight THREE consecutive 15-rounders against the same opponent, Tony Olivera, and what a series that was. I think their last meeting took place in the midwest someplace, that's how much press those fights received. The first two bouts were in California.

    Manuel Ortiz, who was quite friendly with Castillo even though he had whipped Luis several times, used to call him "el chaparro" at the Main St. Gym where they both worked out. Castillo had a lovely wife, a nice lady who came to the gym to watch him train and got nothing but respect from the gang there. She was a good deal taller than her battling husband.

    Luis had won both the flyweight and bantamweight titles of Mexico but I think he lost out to the featherweight champ, Memo Valero, when he tried for a third championship. Valero, by the way, remains an underrated Mexican fighter, a classic boxer who had everything but a damaging punch.

    I liked Luisito, always a gentle sort who stood up to Manuel's bombs excepting for their fight in Oakland, when Ortiz decided to kayo him after Luis had hurt Manuel momentarily. That's the way Ortiz was----he'd go along with any opponent but once you stung him-----that was it!

    hap navarro

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    I checked through the LA Times archive on the three meetings between Goldberg and Ortiz and no knockdowns are mentioned. But the LA Times coverage of the first two fights is bare, such as Goldberg "trounces" Ortiz, etc. The 3rd fight, the title fight, was considered a complete bore and the fans were not happy as Goldberg and Ortiz basically stared at each other for 15 rounds with little action, according to the report.

    Deepak

    Quote Originally Posted by dongee
    Greg:

    I wondered at those early losses to Bennie Goldberg myself until I really began to factor in boxing styles. Bennie, whom I did not know personally until about 1994 when he came to San Diego to look me up, was a very capable boxer. Fleet as a thoroughbred inside those ropes, cagey and elusive, a master at old stick and run combat. And he was a southpaw!

    Heck, I think he only lost a couple of times during his career. His record is quite remarkable, with wins over many of the top contemporary bantams; he even beat Abe Denner, a lanky sort who towered over him.

    With Manuel in the service during WWII, Goldberg won some recognition as "duration" bantam champ by beating Luis Castillo, who hd claimed that honor with a win over Tony Olivera.

    When we consider that Manuel did not blossom into ring generalship until he came under the management of Tommy Farmer, the losses to ringwise foes like Bennie Goldberg and Pablo Dano are understandable, if not excusable. He became more attuned to his role as a top contender and trained seriously for his title defense against Bennie.

    To digress a bit:

    Bennie told me he had dropped Manuel in one of their bouts. Because I somehow missed out on the early meetings, I can't know for certain. But Bennie had no reason to embellish his performances. Hell, he got the decision each time, nuff said.

    When my wife and I met Bennie and his wife, Lynnette at Coronado for lunch, he had come down to ask me to write a shooting script for a movie based on the life of Mickey Cohen, whom he had known. The lead was already cast, he told us. Sorry to say I turned the bid down, fearful of treading where I had never gone before. He said writers were plentiful in Hollywood, but he wanted someone who had lived through the Cohen years. Bennie had been putting film packages together in Hollywood for some time, apparently.

    Will try to be less windy.

    hap

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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...


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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...


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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Cyber Boxing Champion
    Manuel Ortiz

    Born: July 2, 1916 Corona, CA
    Died: May 31, 1970 San Diego
    Managers: Noel Johnston, Tommy Farmer, and Johnny Rogers Career Record: 96-28-3 (49 Kayoes)International Boxing Hall of Fame: 1996

    1938
    Feb 25 Benny Goldberg Hollywood, CA L 4
    Mar 25 Frenchy Savidan Hollywood, CA W 4
    Apr 14 Serio Mendoza Hollywood, CA W 4
    May 3 General Padilla Los Angeles KO 4
    May 17 Santos Lugo Los Angeles KO 4
    Jun 3 Sammy LaPorte Hollywood, CA W 4
    Jun 24 Frenchy Savidan Hollywood, CA W 4
    Jul 5 Pablo Dano Los Angeles L 6
    Aug 5 Benny Goldberg Hollywood, CA W 6
    Aug 15 Tony Navarro El Cento, CA KO 3
    Sep 30 Richie Lemos Hollywood, CA W 6
    Oct 21 Richie Lemos Hollywood, CA W 10
    Nov 8 David Kui Kong Young Los Angeles L 10
    Nov 15 Benny Goldberg Hollywood, CA L 10
    Dec 6 Bernie Reyes Los Angeles W 10

    1939
    Jan 2 Small Montana Stockton, CA L 10
    Feb 1 Donnie Maes El Centro, CA L 10
    Feb 15 Ken Martinez El Cento, CA KO 3
    Mar 14 Jackie Jurich San Jose, CA KO 7
    Apr 11 Tommy Cobb San Jose, CA W 10
    May 1 Sammy LaPorte El Centro, CA KO 7
    Jun 9 Jackie Jurich Hollywood, CA L 10
    Aug 1 Bobby "Pancho" Leyvas Yuma, AZ L 10
    Sep 15 Lou Salica Hollywood, CA L 10
    Oct 26 Horace Mann San Jose, CA W 10
    Dec 1 Cyril Josephs San Jose, CA KO 5
    Dec 14 Elwood Romero Sacramento, CA W 10

    1940
    Jan 30 Little Dado Stockton, CA D 10
    Mar 22 Andy Vasquez Hollywood, CA KO 5
    Apr 5 Jackie Jurich Hollywood, CA KO 7
    Apr 20 Panchito Villa Mexico City W 10
    May 18 Panchito Villa Mexico City L 10
    Oct 9 Panchito Villa Monterrey, Mexico KO 7

    1941
    Jan 10 Rush Dalma Hollywood, CA KO 3
    Feb 1 Jose Robleto Calexito, CA KO 6
    Mar 14 Lupe Cardoza Sacramento, CA KO 9
    Apr 4 Carlos Chavez Hollywood, CA D 10
    May 9 Carlos Chavez Hollywood, CA W 10
    May 20 Jesus Llanes El Centro, CA W 10
    Jun 6 Lou Transparenti Hollywood, CA KO 7
    Aug 8 Tony Olivera Hollywood, CA L 10
    Nov 7 Donnie Maes Hollywood, CA W 10
    Nov 21 Johnny Grady Hollywood, CA W 10

    1942
    Jan 2 Tony Olivero Hollywood, CA W 10
    (Wins California State Bantamweight Title)
    Mar 6 Little Pancho Hollywood, CA KO 7
    May 8 Kenny Lindsay Hollywood, CA KO 6
    May 30 Leonardo Lopez Tijuana, Mexico KO
    Jul 3 Elwood Romero Hollywood, CA KO 6
    Aug 7 Lou Salica Hollywood, CA W 12
    (Wins World Bantamweight Title)
    Sep 25 Bobby Carroll San Diego KO 5
    Oct 9 Nat Corum Portland, OR W 10
    Oct 30 Nat Corum Hollywood, CA KO 6

    1943
    Jan 1 Kenny Lindsay Portland, OR W 10
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Jan 27 George Freitas Oakland KO 10
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Mar 10 Lou Salica Oakland KO 11
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Apr 2 Pedro Ramirez Hollywood, CA KO 6
    Apr 16 Jose Robleto San Diego W 10
    Apr 28 Lupe Cardoza Fort Worth, TX KO 6
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    May 26 Jose Robleto Long Beach, CA W 15
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Jun 25 Tony Olivero Hollywood, CA KO 7
    Jul 11 Jose Robleto Seattle KO 7
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Aug 13 Leonardo Lopez Hollywood, CA W 10
    Sep 4 Filio Gonzalez Hollywood, CA W 10
    Oct 1 Leonardo Lopez Hollywood, CA KO 4
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Nov 23 Benny Goldberg Los Angeles W 15
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)

    1944
    Mar 14 Ernesto Aguilar Los Angeles W 15
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Apr 4 Tony Olivera Los Angeles W 15
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    May 19 Pee Wee Lewis Hollywood, CA KO 9
    Jun 29 Larry Bolvin Boston W 10
    Jul 17 Willie Pep Boston L 10
    Aug 29 Enrique Bolanos Los Angeles KO 6
    Sep 12 Luis Castillo Los Angeles KO 4
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Sep 30 Carlos Chavez Hollywood, CA W 10
    Nov 14 Luis Castillo Los Angeles KO 9
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Nov 22 Lorenzo Safora Oakland W 10

    1945
    Jan 12 Jose "Baby" Gonzalez Hollywood, CA W 10
    Jan 26 Bert White San Diego KO 7
    Nov 2 Horace Leftwich San Diego W 10
    Nov 12 Jose Andreas Dallas W 10
    Nov 20 Proctor Heinold San Antonio W 10

    1946
    Feb 15 Eli Galindo Hollywood, CA KO 4
    Feb 25 Luis Castillo San Francisco KO 13
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Mar 19 Carlos Chavez Los Angeles D 15
    Apr 22 Horace Greeley Leftwich San Francisco W 10
    May 26 Kenny Lindsay Hollywood, CA KO 5
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Jun 10 Jackie Jurich San Francisco KO 11
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Jul 12 David Kui Kong Young Honolulu KO 7
    Oct 11 Carlos Chavez Los Angeles L 12

    1947
    Jan 6 Harold Dade San Francisco L 15
    (Loses World Bantamweight Title)
    Mar 11 Harold Dade Los Angeles W 15
    (Regains World Bantamweight Title)
    May 30 David Kui Kong Young Honolulu W 15
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Oct 15 Manny Ortega El Paso, TX KO by 8
    Dec 20 Tirso Del Rosario Manila W 15
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)

    1948
    Apr 27 Joey Dolan Portland, OR KO 6
    May 25 Henry Davis Honolulu W 10
    Jul 4 Memo Valero Mexicali, Mexico KO 8
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Sep 28 Lauro Salas Los Angeles L 10
    Oct 29 Buddy Jacklich Hollywood, CA KO 8
    Dec 14 Maxie Docusen Los Angeles L 10

    1949
    Jan 1 Jose Cardenas Mexical, Mexico W 10
    Mar 1 Dado Marino Honolulu W 15
    (Retains World Bantamweight Title)
    Mar 29 Henry Davis Honolulu L 10
    Apr 26 Lauro Salas Los Angeles W 10
    May 15 Baby Mickey Guaymas, Mexico KO 5
    May 20 Pinky Peralta Mexico City KO 5
    Jun 25 Roberto "Baby" Coaury Vera Cruz, Mexico L 10
    Jun 29 Roberto Carvajal Merida, Mexico W 10
    Jul 16 Memo Valero Mexico City KO 7
    Jul 23 Tony Vasquez Tampico, Mexico KO 4
    Aug 29 Jimmy Cooper Washington DC L 10
    Oct 3 Ronnie Clayton Manchester, England L 10
    Oct 26 Jackie Paterson Glasgow, Scotland W 10
    Nov 14 Theo Medina Paris W 10

    1950
    Mar 7 Harold Dade Los Angeles W 10
    May 31 Vic Toweel Johannesburg L 15
    (Loses World Bantamweight Title)
    Nov 10 Jackie McCoy Hollywood, CA W 10
    Dec 5 Eddie Chavez San Jose, CA L 10

    1951
    Jan 26 Lauro Salas Hollywood, CA L 10
    Mar 3 Bonnie Espinosa Manila KO 8
    Jun 2 Tirso Del Rosario Manila L 10
    Jul 17 Jackie Graves Los Angeles L 10
    Sep 3 Eddie Chavez Santa Clara, CA L 10

    1952
    Inactive

    1953
    Mar 6 Manuel Hernandez Mexicali, Mexico KO 6

    1954
    Inactive

    1955
    Jun 10 Manuel Hernandez Ensenada, Mexico KO 4
    Jul 22 Memo Valero Mexicali, Mexico KO 3
    Aug 16 Papelero Sanchez Mexicali, Mexico KO 3
    Dec 10 Enrique Esqueda Mexico City L 10

  29. #29
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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...



    Manuel Ortiz (R) & ?

  30. #30
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    Re: manuel ortiz... overlooked great!...

    Frank:

    I can't say for sure, but the fellow squaring off with Manuel in that photo could be Leonardo Lopez, whom Manuel met and defeated several times, including once in a title match.

    Lopez and a kid named Pedro Ramirez both posed for gym photos with Manolo at one time or another.

    hap navarro

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