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Thread: Toney vs. Peter Prefight Press & Predictions

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    Toney vs. Peter Prefight Press & Predictions

    Apparently, there's real talk of making James Toney and Samuel Peter for the early fall. Even if the weights in the ring are comparable, this just looks like a real physical mismatch to me. James turned down Klitschko, seemingly realizing the height and reach differences would be just too much, but can his slipping and rolling, juking and jiving actually keep him from catching a hook like the one that damned nearly decapitated Jeremy Williams?

    Of course, Klitschko also showed us that Peter can't box any better than a grocery bagger on his first job, and Wlad legitimately hurt Samuel in that final round. But James doesn't have anywhere near that level of power, and he's not going to loom over the taller, bridge-support-like Peter. Can his body even last ten rounds under that kind of raw power?

    Does anyone feel that Toney has a prayer? That Peter can win? (I almost said, " . . . that Peter can pull it off?") I can foresee James looking slick and even surprisingly active for a few rounds, but at some point the bearish Samuel is going to connect solidly and with more than one punch. I can't see Toney surviving that. PeteLeo.

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    I don't think Toney will come into the fight in worse shape than he did for Rahman. He might lose rounds for non-aggression and blah, blah, blah... but to me this has always been a game of hitting and not getting hit, and Toney still gives more than he takes. Peter is exactly the kind of opponent a fit Toney looks great against.
    Last edited by ezzthetic; 06-17-2006 at 07:57 AM.

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    David Tua could not hit Chris Byrd although he made it a close fight simply by aggressive pressure...however, Peter is not on tenth as good as Tua was when Tua was a bit of a fighter. Unless Peter hits a "Hail Mary" Toney makes him look like the amateur he is...

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    Useless fight & probably a farce. Peter could never hit JT flush in a million years but JT could never stop him from coming forward. He could probably KD JT with a shot to the shoulder.

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    Is it really such a bad fight to make instead of remaining inactive? If Toney can't get in the ring with either Rahman or Klitschko, is there really another fight that would be as interesting, besides Liakhovich? Hmmm... are there some big barriers preventing that one? Toney - Liakhovich I mean. I have to give Liakhovich credit for showing real skills vs. Brewster, though I have a hard time shaking off his fight with Friday Ahunanya... one of the worst fights in history.

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    Man, The heavyweight division sucks.

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    BIGTIME!
    greg

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    The fact that the question even has to be asked, more than answers it ...

    GorDoom

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    War!
    Shawn

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    Samuel Peter is far too strong for Toney. Keep in mind that Ruiz was pretty much having his way with Toney in the clinches (and this is a Toney who was supposedly on steroids) and couple that with Peter's penchant for landing rabbit punches when he has someone cornered against the ropes. Toney is gonna get mauled. Rahman barely threw anything with heat on it and yet it was enough to constantly back Toney up. I also consider Peter a stronger man than Rahman, despite what is said about Rahman's 500 pound benchpress.

    Something else to keep in mind: if none of Toney's flush counters could really stop the chinny Rahman from advancing, how does he get Peter's respect?

    Peter will walk through him. Toney is too small, too weak, and too stationary with his defense to last against a juggernaut like Samuel Peter.

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    Sam Peter a "juggernaught"??? ... Kid, you gotta be kidding me. Have we been watching the same fighter??? Sam Peter is a big, clumsy, oaf, with good power & an absolutely abysmal; skill set.

    Go look at some film of Foreman, Liston, big, powerful, fighters with skills. Peter is a mutt of a heavyweight.

    Not saying Toney is any better ...

    GorDoom

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    Btw... since someone is calling Rahman chinny, has he ever been hurt by someone who wasn't a big puncher (Lewis, Maskaev, Sanders)? Chin isn't an attribute in a video game.

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    Samuel Peter is one of the crudest fighters I've seen in my lifetime, but he is also one of the strongest. I think the term Juggernaut fits him well. He plods forward until he has a guy hurt and on the ropes and then he moves in for the kill with looping haymakers and rabbit punches. Once he gets you into that position, it's usually over. His skill level isn't what it can be but he is one of the most heavy handed individuals in the division since Foreman, in my opinion, and he has a very solid chin.

    As for Rahman not being chinny, seeing him laid out completely cold against Maskaev and Lewis (and soon to be by Maskaev yet again) I can't think of any other way to describe his chin. Wladimir has never really been knocked out yet, only stopped (each time by a big puncher), and he is considered to have a glass chin. Rahman is completely starched in the worst way a fighter can be, TWICE, and his chin is defended? If you get hit by a heavyweight puncher, flush, you are most likely going to stagger or go down. That's just how it goes. Wladimir Klitschko's TKO losses are mostly due to him getting hurt and not knowing what to do. Rahman's KO losses were a result of him being in another world and simply not having the physical capability to get to his feet, let alone to continue fighting.

    If that isn't chinny, I don't know what is. It's not as if I said he has a glass chin. When I use the word chinny, it's to describe a fighter who has an undependable chin that has failed him somewhat consistently throughout his career. I don't use it to mean that every little tap on the chin sends him staggering around the ring like a drunk. It means, when a good puncher hits him flush on the chin, you already know the outcome.

    Ken Norton was chinny. He did not have a glass chin. As I use them, the terms are completely different.

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Achilles
    I don't use it to mean that every little tap on the chin sends him staggering around the ring like a drunk. It means, when a good puncher hits him flush on the chin, you already know the outcome.
    That sums it up for me, thanks!

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    Kid:

    I guess we've devolved so much in boxing that you by todays abysmal standards we can call, Sam Peter, a juggernaught. Though if he was as tough as his image he should have put away a truly "chinny" guy like Wlad who has a heart the size of a raisin.

    As to the rest of your're "chinny" explanation I have to say I agree with you that there is a difference between a glass jaw & being chinny.

    Tommy Hearns would definitely fit the "chinny" class but in his case he was still a great fighter.

    GorDoom

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    Quote Originally Posted by ezzthetic
    Btw... since someone is calling Rahman chinny, has he ever been hurt by someone who wasn't a big puncher (Lewis, Maskaev, Sanders)? Chin isn't an attribute in a video game.
    He was hurt by Ruiz at one point, but just enough to turtle up for 30 seconds or so.

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    A word of warning to Sam Peter's camp: Toney wobbles, but he don't fall down.

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    & if he does he'll bounce a couple of times until collaping in a sweaty puddle of suet.

    GorDoom

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    GorDoom I think you are a great person for boxing on the internet and I love the site and forum more than any other on the internet but I think you underrate Wlad quite a bit and I have to differ with you when it comes to the guy.

    Guys with hearts the size of raisins do not continue to get up multiple times when they are seeing stars and their health is at risk as Wlad did against Sanders. That fight alone proves that Wlad at least has a passable heart and deserves the title fighter. I have never seen Wlad fail to beat a count. You can knock his chin, and his nerve, but he has heart.

    I would say he has more heart than a guy like Tyson or Liston. Liston and Tyson both had more nerve than Wlad; they were more difficult to scare or shake up but once you got them to that point they seemed to lose interest in fighting very quickly. Wlad seems to genuinely want to fight on even when he's been stirred up and suddenly thrust into that dark, scary place where one losses control and is made to feel helpless. Liston and Tyson both folded when put in that place but Wlad at least tries to fight on and regain control.

    Knock his nerve, and psychological aptitude for fighting, but his heart is there.

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    Looks like this fight is signed. From Maxboxing:

    In an interesting heavyweight crossroads match that has been talked about for weeks, former three-division champ James Toney will take on Samuel Peter, perhaps the hardest punching contender in the heavywieght division, on September 2nd in a Showtime-televised main event.

    Toney, 69-4-3 (43), has twice challenged for a heavyweight title in the past year and a half, beating then-WBA belt holder John Ruiz on points last April (but subsequently testing positive for steroids thus rendering the result of the bout to a 'No Contest') and then holding current WBC titlist Hasim Rahman to a draw this past March. Peter, 26-1 (22), dropped current IBF title holder Wladimir Klitschko three times en route to a close decision loss last September. The native of Nigeria (now living in Las Vegas) has won two bouts since the Klitschko fight.

    At 37, Toney, perhaps the most skilled boxer in the division, is 12 years older than the raw 25-year-old power puncher. One possible venue for the match is the Staples Center in Los Angeles, where Toney, a native of Michigan, now makes his home. —Fischer

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    As much as Toney has dissapointed me with his conditioning in the Rahman fight, I think he still outclasses Peter. Before the Williams fight Peter was struggling with tricksters like Da Silva and Shufford who clearly aren't on par with James. Toney may tire late in the fight but so will Peter and Samuel showed vs Klitschko he doesn't get a 2nd wind.

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    Oh my god! why are we talking about this fight? When a big fat over the hill middleweight is one of the top contenders in the division, I think it's time to change the channel. I would rather watch the golden girls reunion show.

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    This isn't Lyle-Shavers but the fight itself does promise to be pretty damn entertaining. It's one of the best fights to be made in the division in my opinion.

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    Then what does that say about the division?

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    Re: Toney-Peter: War or Farce?

    If Peter goes in there looking to bomb Toney out withone shot he'll be playing right into the fat man's hands. It's a stupid fight for Peter's management to have taken. JT is just the kind of cutie that makes big, straight ahead bombers like Peter look stupid.

    Peter will throw and miss and throw and miss all night long. He's just the kind of guy that JT likes. Peter won't be able to do much with him on the inside.

    Peter already proved he's green against wladimir Klitschko. He'll get schooled again. He's too big and stupid to fight an intelligent fight because he thinks he can just bomb everybody out.

    He'll be huffing and puffing like George Foreman in Zaire after about eight rounds with JT on the inside.

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    Toney-peter Pre-fight Press & Predictions

    Peter to fight Toney in September title elimination bout
    By Dan Rafael
    ESPN.com


    The long-discussed heavyweight showdown between top contenders Samuel Peter and James Toney is now official.


    Christof Koepsel/Getty Images
    Samuel Peter puts his 26-1 record on the line against James Toney Sept. 2 in Los Angeles.
    They will meet Sept. 2 at the Staples Center in Los Angeles. Showtime, which will televise the 12-round fight, announced it Saturday night.

    The bout will be a title elimination fight with the winner earning a mandatory shot against the winner of the Aug. 12 fight between beltholder Hasim Rahman and Oleg Maskaev.

    Peter (26-1, 22 KOs), a Las Vegas resident from Nigeria known for his tremendous power, has won two fights in a row since scoring three knockdowns but losing a decision to Wladimir Klitschko last fall. Klitschko went on to capture a version of the title in his next fight.

    "Sam clearly illustrated that he belongs with the heavyweight elite in his match against Wladimir Klitschko last year," promoter Dino Duva said. "Considering the many lethargic, non-exciting televised matches recently featuring so-called champions and contenders, Sam is the best heavyweight out there to put on a great show because of his electrifying punching power."

    Toney (69-4-3, 43 KOs), who lives in Los Angeles, is a former middleweight, super middleweight and cruiserweight world champion. But he has come up short in two heavyweight title fights.

    In his last bout on March 18, Toney came into the fight grossly out of shape at a career-heavy 237 pounds and many thought he was fortunate to get a draw with Rahman. In April 2005, Toney's decision win against then-titlist John Ruiz was changed to a no decision because Toney tested positive for steroids in a post-fight drug test.

    Dan Rafael is the boxing writer for ESPN.com

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    Re: TONEY-PETER PRE-FIGHT PRESS & PREDICTIONS - War or Farce?

    I say war because neither guy moves very much. Peter moves forward only, Toney barely moves at all, relying mostly on headmovement and speedy counters. Interesting matchup. Toney is faster with the better headmovement and defensive skill, but Peter IS going to hit him WAY harder than Toney has EVER been hit.

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    Re: TONEY-PETER PRE-FIGHT PRESS & PREDICTIONS - War or Farce?

    Quote Originally Posted by apollack
    I say war because neither guy moves very much. Peter moves forward only, Toney barely moves at all, relying mostly on headmovement and speedy counters. Interesting matchup. Toney is faster with the better headmovement and defensive skill, but Peter IS going to hit him WAY harder than Toney has EVER been hit.
    I'm not sure about that. Toney has sparred literally hundreds of rounds with lots of big HW punchers. Who has Peter ever knocked out who could be described as normally durable? Jeremy Williams? Peter is as strong as an ox but he has very little snap on his shots. If a top boxer can see what is hitting him, it hurts, but it doesn't knock you out.

    Sam Peter is a very hard puncher but far from a great puncher. His press machine has done well making him into the next George Foreman, but I think a few too many have bought into some of it b/c people want a new Tyson/monster destroyer in the HW division.

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    Re: TONEY-PETER PRE-FIGHT PRESS & PREDICTIONS - War or Farce?

    Peter will not touch him over the distance. His only hope is blasting away exclusively to the body.

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    Re: TONEY-PETER PRE-FIGHT PRESS & PREDICTIONS - War or Farce?

    First off, let me say I've been reading the posts on this site for a few days and cannot think of one other website with this collection of boxing knowledge. I look forward to learning from each and every one of you.

    Now, on the topic of the upcoming Toney-Peter affair....James Toney is, without a doubt, one of the most skilled technicians to come onto the scene in years in my opinion. It is through his knowledge of the sport that he has been able to be successful in the big boy division; but this is common knoweldge. He's a former middleweight and 38 years old, which is old for a fighter against a young, hungry Peter. However, I've learned not to jump all over a fighter just because of his advancing years; thank you Bernard Hopkins. However, Toney's age is not so much the issue as his inability to just say "no" to his favorite foods.

    There is no contest in skill between Toney and Peter unless one is referring to relative girth. I can’t help but wonder if Toney is going to the well once to often on this occasion, though. True, I will never forget the heroics a greener Toney displayed back in the day against the wiley veteran Mike McCallum; but I will also never forget that original match occurred at 160 Lbs for Toney’s IBF strap. Middleweight...that’s nearly 100 Lbs south of where James hovers these days. While it is true that Peter is nothing but a pure slugger with little schooling and we’ve witnessed the scenario of boxer educating puncher at the puncher’s expense as of late ala Joe Calzaghe vs Jeff Lacy, I wonder if Toney will be able to do the same against the free swinging Nigerian.

    Toney’s style is based on counterpunching and remaining deceptively still with his back to the ropes while awaiting the opportunity to capitalize on his opponents ineptitude….and this has worked so far at heavyweight, despite all odds. He schooled an overripe Evander Holyfield, a green Tyrell Booker, an under-skilled John Ruiz, an unmotivated and underachieving Dominick Guinn and managed a draw against the oft inconsistent Hasim Rahman, despite his woeful conditioning.

    I’ve given up hope concerning James Toney’s ever expanding waistline. He is his own worst enemy in this regard, despite all of his talents at fighting off bigger men, he can’t find a way to fight off his love of pastries and fatty foods. He can push off much bigger men and push back the hands of time; but can’t push himself away from the table. I wonder if this is where it finally catches up to him; against a man whom he cannot hurt, a man who is much younger and more motivated to win and win impressively, who will be looking for every opportunity to separate James Toney’s head from his shoulders.

    I just wonder.
    Last edited by Funk49; 07-12-2006 at 03:25 PM.

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