Dempsey V Marciano...

[raylawpc]

I really don't think Michael meant to be taken literally that Bobby Chacon "fought like a girl." I think he meant to imply that Chacon used an unorthodox style in the 1970s that seems to be the norm today, and that style, in his judgment, looks amatuerish. I think his comment had more to do with his belief that boxing skills have deteriorated of late, than as an indictment of Bobby Chacon.

He did, after all, say in the same post that "Of course, Bobby COULD fight, he just LOOKED gangly and not as good as many of his contemporaries, to me anyway."

[Michael Frank]

Tell Shaq, all the other famous athletes, and all the pretty Hollywood ladies who go to the UFC that it's crap. Or the great Jim Brown--also a boxing fan-- who said at his first UFC, "I have found my sport!"

And no, I wasn't referring to the Chacon thing, it was when I mentioned in a thread re: Hearns and Duran something like "that crap about the look in Duran's eyes," that Hawk got quite upset. I didn't mean to insult anyone on the board but still have since avoided using the word.

Hawk, you do know your boxing with the best of them, but I don't know why you need to constantly try to needle people on here. I'm on the CBZ to listen and learn only, and share my own views to get feedback, again, so as to learn.

[Michael Frank]

Bingo on all counts, Rawlawpc. I wish I could articulate my own thoughts as well as you can spell out my thoughts! (But I honestly thought in that case I had.)

Thanks.

[kikibalt]

Bobby Chacon sure didn't looked amatuerish when he dismantle Danny "Lil Red" Lopez in 1974.

[hawk5ins]

ANd if you want to give him a pass, awesome.

Personally, I think he's out of passes.

I've also heard comparisons between Benitez breaking his ankle agianst Davey Moore and Donald Curry quitting agianst Lloyd Honeghan.

I've heard him compare Lyle SHavers with Holmes Shavers and call both bouts slaughters.

I've read him state that Coetzee was easily beaten by Weaver, Tate, Page and Snipes.

And that Witherspoon beat Snipes.

Aand read him question another poster if they had ever seen Coetzee fight, becuase they stated that Gerrie had relatively fast hands.

I've read him claim that Aaron Pryor never fought at 135, even though he was ranked by the WBA, WBC, RIng Mag, KO Mag, World Boxing and Boxing Illustrated at 135, going into his bout with Cervantes at 140.

And On and on and on.

I'm sorry, but after a while the obviousness of who is a BoxRec-Ranger or YouTuber, is pretty clear.

You are obviously more tolerant of this than I am.

You'll get into Heaven first.

Save me a seat.

Hawk

[Sharkey]

Who wants to volunteer to explain what I really mean going forward?

[Michael Frank]

Hawk, you've got problems. I've posted on here hundreds of times, and if I was in error all the times you noted above, still the % of error is low, and well, let he who's a perfect Hawk cast the first stone. The way you've memorized several of my posts, you sound like a stalker.

BUT, you have some facts wrong. The fellow who claimed Coetzee had "relatively fast hands" had in fact said he was the 2nd fastest heavy in the division, next to Holmes. I mentioned Dokes and Page as being faster than Coetzee.

Re: Benizez's ankle, you've worn this out by now. My point was to those of you who say Benitez had a better heart than Curry, I disagreed. That Benitez quit due to the ankle made him no better to me than Curry getting his head handed to him by Honeyghan and quitting on the stool--not a gutless act when you're not right physically and also getting killed. You seem to think Curry "obviously" had less heart given these two examples. I thought Benitez didn't have to quit instantly, but I was not questioning his heart, just saying Donald's heart is not less in comparison. Curry entered the ring nearly 500 times, considering his amateur career also, but you think he's got a problem with his heart.

As to Pryor's weight, I recall saying I THOUGHT he hadn't been fighting at 135, not that it was assured he never did [my exact words there: "Pryor didn't fight pro as a lightweight (to my knowledge)"]. Because I was unsure. Figured a guy who scours the record books like you do would know and could fill us in.

As to Witherspoon-Snipes . . . Witherspoon DID beat Snipes, you can look it up. I watched and taped the fight and yes, Witherspoon won.

I watched all these fighters from the 1970s and '80s, even many in the '60s, when they fought--I believe you were too young for many (for Ali-Frazier #1 you would have been what, 3 or 4 years old based on your h.s. grad date of 1985??) --so you have viewed the tapes--but I cannot go to the tapes for everything. Did we all need to know when you got out of high school, is that what everyone's here for?

What were you implying above about your intolerance, that I should be shot, put in prison--for making honest mistakes when talking among friendly colleagues? People can always ignore my posts if they wish. Isn't that enough?

With your eagerness to argue and insult on a daily basis, let me see . . . I picture you as being about 4'2" with a Napoleonic complex, never in a fight but beaten up a lot based on your mouth, safe as an adult in lashing out at others from behind your computer, at home with your 3 little girls whom you'll need to protect from old lechers like yourself (per your own post, not me making it up). Am I pretty close?

That you think you'll "get into heaven" because you may make fewer errors in discussing boxing, or because you hold back and DON'T pick at those with whom you agree, is farcical. I believe you are knowledgable about boxing but a moron outside of it, in life. Oh, I'll bet my use of the word "moron" offends you and some others here, but your constant insults about what I do, rather than what I am, are totally acceptable.

Can you stop picking fights and insulting? You clearly bring it out of me. And quite clearly, from a TON of other guys on this board.

[Sharkey]

Fun CBZ fact: Did you guys know the ignore function in your CP can accommodate many user-names?

[kikibalt]

I can see that this thread has gone down the toilet.

[hawk5ins]

That's where Boxing magazines come in handy again!

Back to the crapper!

You can read up on Chacon Lopez all over agian!

HA!

Hawk

[raylawpc]

Bobby Chacon sure didn't looked amatuerish when he dismantle Danny "Lil Red" Lopez in 1974.

I agree. He looked pretty awesome to me, too. I bet you saw it live, didn't you?

[raylawpc]

Bingo on all counts, Rawlawpc. I wish I could articulate my own thoughts as well as you can spell out my thoughts! (But I honestly thought in that case I had.)

Thanks.

Thank you. But translating does NOT mean agreeing.

[raylawpc]

Fun CBZ fact: Did you guys know the ignore function in your CP can accommodate many user-names?

What!! And miss out on all the fun?!?

[kikibalt]

I agree. He looked pretty awesome to me, too. I bet you saw it live, didn't you?

Tom,

I did see it live, and I just got a dvd of the fight the other day.

[TKO11]

Sharkey - you are right - that ignore function rocks. Given what Hawk is posting on this thread, not being able to read Mike's posts is clearly a blessing for me.

Now I guess I'll go back to sitting on my all my tapes of Coetzee fights, and never watch them. That way I won't ever sound like anyone that ever saw him fight before. Because that is so me.....

Hawk give it up for a lost cause. A couple of days since the Lyle-Shavers slaughter that brought the ignore function on, and I can honestly say, reading the threads is much more entertaining now.

[Michael Frank]

TKO11, I was told by several people that you and your friend here almost always work together in belittling others on CBZ. How cool of you. Gee, I wish I needed to kiss up to another poster. His approval is so important. Makes me aspire to be just like you two . . . not. What prize do you think you get for being top dog on an internet message board? Are you going to post any more photos of yourself, as you did on another thread, to help win top honors?

Was Coetzee really "the second fastest heavy (next to Holmes) when he fought Tate," as you said? What about Dokes, Page, Leon Spinks (the latter beaten by Gerrie but not slower) . . . oh well, this is all old news again.

As you said on that thread, "I am not trying to start a pissing contest." I agreed, noted my error, thought all was over with. But you really needed to come in on this one and just swing away.

I forgot, you can't see this because it's being ignored.

[walshb]

Michael. As to my slagging of the UFC, maybe I was abit too harsh. I guess from what I have seen I think it looks at times very sloppy and amateurish. The guys are no doubt brave and tough and obviously skillful. Not IMO in a pro boxers league however. I am a fan of other combat sports and I really admire Muay Thai. The UFC I just haven't got yet. Maybe if I watch a bit more, I may see what you do, or to the extent, what you do.
In regards to your other posts not relating to UFC or the thread, I applaud you......But to be honest, I would say don't waste your time. The CBZ is unfortunately always going to have certain POSTERS who are going to get under your skin. You just gotta' take it with a pinch of salt and laugh with them or AT them......You nailed it in several of your posts....

[hawk5ins]

I'm now hoping that everyone has made thier "points", we can get back to the topic at hand.

Unless Ray wants to talk Chris Everett...

Hawk

[TKO11]

Can I talk about the blank spots between my post and yours. I truly am enjoying them.

Wasn't Chris Everett a slotback for the Oilers?

[hawk5ins]

had a Slotback?

Why?

Hawk

[TKO11]

Ummmm..... because the wide receiver wasn't much of a forechecker? And Warren Moon just wasn't scoring enough goals.

[hawk5ins]

The CFL.........

THis looped around quite nicely I think.

Hawk

[raylawpc]

I'm now hoping that everyone has made thier "points", we can get back to the topic at hand.

Unless Ray wants to talk Chris Everett...

Hawk

I'd rather talk about Chris Evert, but only if Dan posts some more pictures.

[Dan Gunter]

Ray--

Are you talkin' 'bout me?

Are you talkin' 'bout ME?

Are YOU talkin' 'bout ME?

ARE YOU TALKIN' 'BOUT ME?

Well, heck, if you are: Have I ever posted any pictures here? I don't think I've ever tried. If I did, I've forgotten how to do it.

Anyway, I'm not a big Chris Evert fan.

If I could post a photo here, and had the right one to post, I'd post a photo of Faye B., Scott County Central High School class of 1975, to prove that even deep podunk Missouri could produce a lovely young woman . . .

Cheers,

The Only Living Dan in Seattle

[hawk5ins]

The OTHER Dan, Dan......or Travis.

Dan1213.

It's funny, when TKO jokingly asked if Chris Everert was a Slotback, all that came flooding back in my head was listening to Cosell during the Holmes Shaver Rematch, refering to Shavers as Ernie Holmes......The DT for the Steelers.

Sometimes having great retention for useless information, is not all it's cracked up to be.

Hawk

[raylawpc]

Nope, I'm referring to Dan1213. You are not guilt as . . . not charged.

[Dan Gunter]

I like to think of Dan1213 as "That Other Dan."

Or maybe I should think of him as "The Dan Who Actually Knows How to Post Photos."

[raylawpc]

In my brief and unremarkable amateur career, that's how I referred to Sugar Ray Robinson . . . the "other Ray."

[Michael Frank]

I agree about keeping to the topic at hand and everyone having made their points, though having missed the Chris Evert photos I''ll need to go search for them. Fast.

Not to raise sensibilities but rather to admit error and to agree with the point made by several of you, I viewed my copy of Chacon-Lopez last night again, end-to-end. Not only did Bobby look great, and dominant (I'm sure remembered by all here), but he didn't look anything but a solid pro--tight movement, solid-looking punches landing at a very high percentage, pretty tight defense; nothing to knock, just looked like a top pro contender/champion in all respects. My memory of him looking less so involve the 4th Limon bout, and a few others since then, win or lose. But all of this was at the tail end of his career.

Interestingly, the announcer, Jim Healy, seemed entirely pro-Bobby, was almost too obvious as to whom he was rooting for, other than noting the one round he thought Lopez won. (Factually, to me, the fight WAS pretty much all Bobby, but Healy was still biased, again, to me.) In the 6th, about 1/3 into the round, Lopez was all over Chacon, but hitting with nothing effective or missing, and Healy exclaimed that nothing was doing any damage. True. But with about 1 minute left, Lopez was landing hard shot after hard shot on Chacon, for what seemed the only time in the fight. Seemed like 10 hard shots, or more, that landed. I wondered what Healy would say now . . . and he went the entire 30 seconds or more and didn't say a thing. Stone silence.

Like the Spanish announcer in Arguello-Olivares who had Olivares winning "easily" up until Arguello stopped Olivares (said in English between rounds). I had thought Alexis won most of the rounds if on aggression alone. The American announcer primarily covering it with him (was it Healy??) was a little more even-handed.

Maybe calls for a new thread for "most biased calls of a fight"? Maybe not.

[peter murphy]

i love both fighters but i see dempsey giving the rock a bad beaten here,dempsey is a better boxer and better puncher than marciano and just as tough ,i see a dempsey stoppage of marciano somewhere in the middle round after the most brutal fight in history