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Thread: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

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    Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    whats ur thoughts on him?

    where do u rate him on ur all time heavyweight list?


    wut are ur most memorable and favorite moments about old joe?


    wut are ur thoughts on his competition??

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    I view him as more famous for losing than winning, something I always watch very cautiously...he was very talented and crafty, a surprisingly hard hitter, someone who was almost lost to history until his dramatic run late in his game. His main weakness was a lack of following up when a man was hurt and a less than stellar chin.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    I concur.
    Last edited by 10-8; 07-18-2006 at 01:16 AM.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Quote Originally Posted by HE Grant
    . His main weakness was a lack of following up when a man was hurt and a less than stellar chin.
    good points all around


    my comments:


    the only fight where walcott showed his true killer instinct was marciano I and you saw how good of a puncher he was when he chose to be





    about walcotts chin: i believe walcott had a much better chin than given credit for. in walcotts prime he was only knocked out by two men......marciano and joe louis both ATG punchers.


    walcott faced a murderous list of punchers 1944-53 yet only marciano and louis were able to knock him out



    the ettore, simon KO losses were not legit. in the ettore fight, walcott was a very green part time 20 year old fighter who took the ettore fight on 24 hr notice, walcott was suffering from typoid then. walcott ran out of energy and was stopped on his feet.


    in the simon fight, walcott took the fight on 24 hr notice with barely anything to eat in the past 3 days, no training whatssoever yet walcott still boxed # 4 ranked contenders ears off for the first 5 rounds until walcott ran out of gas and was stumling around the ring and simon finished him off. walcott fell from exhaustion not from simons punches, kinda like foreman-ali. you dont hold the ali fight against foremans chin do u? this fight should not be held against walcotts chin.



    the tiger jack fox knockout loss was a legit one. but this was a very green 21 year old jersey joe taking on a far more experienced ranked contender on 24 hr notice!!!!! not only that but tiger jack was a hall of famer and one of the best knockout artists of all time. yet jersey joe incredibly managed to fight very well against fox and gave fox problems before the much more experienced knockout king knocked walcott out in the 8th round. remember this was a 21 year old green walcott who took this fight on a last minute notice


    incredibly, young walcott in the rematch managed to last the distance vs all time puncher far more expeirenced tiger jack fox!






    all these KO losses were pre prime though. in walcotts prime though, he managed to have quite a sturdy chin.


    lets take a look

    post felix bocchichio 44-53 where walcott was actually a full time fighter, getting world class training, and eating full time meals.........only ATG punchers marciano and louis were able to put away walcott.



    walcott fought and managed to survive getting knocked out against these huge punchers


    tiger jack fox
    curtish hachetman sheppard- one of the hardest HW punchers of that era. walcott took sheppards best bombs and climbed off the canvas to win.
    tommy gomez
    elmer ray- in 23 rounds, walcott was not knocked down once by elmer violent ray. ray was a murderous puncher.
    lorenzo pack
    lee Q murray
    rex layne



    - walcott took bombs against some these murderous punchers and survived


    it also must be noted that it took joe louis 23 rounds to finally floor walcott. joe louis is the greatest puncher of all time and the fact that it took him 23 rounds to floor old jersey joe shows u the quality of walcotts chin. marciano also hit walcott with many hard punches during there fight that walcott took very well. remember that photo with walcotts face distorted?? thats not the KO punch. walcott took that hard punch. the punch marciano knocked him out with, well thats one of the greatest punchers in boxing history. but walcott showed even against the very best punchers he could take some hard ones



    walcotts chin is underated because of his # of KO losses. the numbers are misleading.





    KEEP THE COMMENTS COMING GUYS!!

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Walcott did not take the Ettore bout on 24 hours notice. that fight was his coming out party and many in the Camden fight community had high hopes for him And the KO was legit. Walcott had been boxing as long as Ettore starting in 1930. Phil Sachs says he fought him in 1929. There are quite a few fights yet to be uncovered in Joe's record. Even he said as much, mentioning more bouts in Egg Harbor, Millville, Vineland, Camden, Paulsboro.

    The best Walcott who ever stepped into the ring was in the first Marciano fight. It has been mentioned that he was slower than he was in the first Louis bout but he fought differently against Rocky. He had disdain for Rocky's abilities and fought a confident, aggressive battle because of this. Against Louis he was fighting a lot more cautiously-feinting, potshoting and sliding away. He probably would have beaten Louis had he had the same temperment and determination that he showed against Marciano.
    Chuck

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    On the other Walcott thread I posted the newsclip from the Ettore fight, HE DID NOT GET STOPPED ON HIS FEET, he took a terrific body pounding and was KO'd from a shot to the pit of the stomach. Took a ten count. Hey Elmer Ray it was, like this one, your thread. Do you just say what you want and facts be damned ?

    It was no disgrace losing to Ettore at that time because he was a top contender who took on all comers (black + white). In fact it was because he met so much tough opposition that he fell apart in the Galento fight and was never the same again. Yes, I have a couple of newsclips from the Galento fight so please don't comment on that one unless you have the clips as well.

    Go to phillyboxinghistory.com and check out Ettore's complete and accurate record not the partial from boxrec. This one has his 38 straight wins at the beginning of his career.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    On the other Walcott thread I posted the newsclip from the Ettore fight, HE DID NOT GET STOPPED ON HIS FEET, he took a terrific body pounding and was KO'd from a shot to the pit of the stomach. Took a ten count. Hey Elmer Ray it was, like this one, your thread. Do you just say what you want and facts be damned ?
    woa woa calm down there bud, no need to get carried away. it was an honest mistake by me. i actually didnt mean to say wut i did. i was thinking of another fight. my mistake i got confused. ur right he did knockout walcott. but it was a punch to the body, not walcotts chin. so it doesnt count against his chin.


    * but i do have another fight report saying walcott was outboxing ettore before running out of gas. this report says ettore was in comman going into the 8th, but i have another report saying walcott was in front going into the
    8th.





    Yes, I have a couple of newsclips from the Galento fight so please don't comment on that one unless you have the clips as well.


    wuts with the rudeness?? keep up the good work with philly boxing history. awesome site.
    Last edited by Elmer Ray; 07-18-2006 at 07:06 PM.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    are u sure walcott didnt take the fight with ettore on 24 hr notice??? i believe blackburn had left jersey joe at this point and he wasnt training anymore, had a huge family to feed and was going to bed hungry every night. also i believe he picked up typoid sometime around the ettore fight.


    perhaps it was only the fox, simon fights he took 24 hr notice

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    You know Elmer you asked for help for info on Walcott. I don't have the equiptment to send the articles to this site like my buddies Frank and Dan do so I sat and typed out the news clippings (I am a very slow typer) to aid you in your research. I have another, longer, clip of the Walcott-Ettore fight from the Inquirer by John Webster that basicaly says the same thing but didn't have the fortitude to type that one out too.
    If you are going to do projects for articles on these boxers you owe it to us CBZ'rs and your other readers to write the facts not sugar coated events to suit your agenda. Walcott was a great fighter whose evolution to the championship was one of boxings greatest stories. For every loss and hardship was a learning experience that he used to improve himself to being a superlative fighter by his early 30's and doesn't need imbellishments by denigrating other boxers like Ettore who proved his mettle by holding his own with the likes of Leroy Haynes, John Henry Lewis, Arturo Godoy, Willie Reddish, Loughran, and showed absolutely no fear of Louis.
    The Walcott story shows how it was sometimes done before the the days of the pampered, big bonus Olympic champions.
    I hope I havent offended you with my rudeness.
    Chuck

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    I disagree that Walcott's best fight was vs Marciano. He was more aggressive, but his slowness in the middle round showed his age, and that gameplan, while exciting, was suicide vs a younger, superbly conditioned puncher like Marciano. Vs Louis in the first fight, he was faster, trickier, and fought a smarter fight. if he had gone balls to the wall vs Louis as he did vs Marciano, he would've never seen the 15th round, and he knew it.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Quote Originally Posted by hagler04
    I disagree that Walcott's best fight was vs Marciano. He was more aggressive, but his slowness in the middle round showed his age, and that gameplan, while exciting, was suicide vs a younger, superbly conditioned puncher like Marciano. Vs Louis in the first fight, he was faster, trickier, and fought a smarter fight. if he had gone balls to the wall vs Louis as he did vs Marciano, he would've never seen the 15th round, and he knew it.

    i respecfully disagre. i also strongly disagree about walcott slowing the mid rounds due to his age. i didnt notice any signs of him slowing down. actually quite the contrary. if this were the case, how come walcotts best rounds were the 11th and 12th where he hurt marciano and had him holding on? how come the announcer was saying "you would think walcot would get tired sometime, but he never does"??



    but his slowness in the middle round showed his age, and that gameplan, while exciting, was suicide vs a younger, superbly conditioned puncher like Marciano.
    if it was suicide, then why was walcott so successful with it?

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Quote Originally Posted by phlboxarc
    You know Elmer you asked for help for info on Walcott. I don't have the equiptment to send the articles to this site like my buddies Frank and Dan do so I sat and typed out the news clippings (I am a very slow typer) to aid you in your research. I have another, longer, clip of the Walcott-Ettore fight from the Inquirer by John Webster that basicaly says the same thing but didn't have the fortitude to type that one out too.
    If you are going to do projects for articles on these boxers you owe it to us CBZ'rs and your other readers to write the facts not sugar coated events to suit your agenda. Walcott was a great fighter whose evolution to the championship was one of boxings greatest stories. For every loss and hardship was a learning experience that he used to improve himself to being a superlative fighter by his early 30's and doesn't need imbellishments by denigrating other boxers like Ettore who proved his mettle by holding his own with the likes of Leroy Haynes, John Henry Lewis, Arturo Godoy, Willie Reddish, Loughran, and showed absolutely no fear of Louis.
    The Walcott story shows how it was sometimes done before the the days of the pampered, big bonus Olympic champions.
    I hope I havent offended you with my rudeness.
    Chuck



    thanx chuck, no u hadvnt offended me. i respect u a lot as ur post, and i respect ur far more superior knowledge and experience. keep up with the info PLEASE and keep up with the great posts!


    i made a boo boo on the ettore fight, i apologize.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    In my opinion, Jersey Joe Walcott was one hell of a fighter. He was better than many contenders and champions. Walcott was better than Max Baer, Patterson, Quarry, Lyle, Schmeling, Sharkey, Carnera, and a host of other fighters. Walcott nearly beat a prime Marciano in their 1st fight and if he was 4-5 years younger, he might have. Walcott would be a tough fight for Tyson, Holmes, Holyfield, Foreman, Frazier, and Lennox Lewis. He put Joe Louis, perhaps the greatest heavyweight champ of all-time, on the mat 3 times in 2 fights. Walcott in my opinion is just below the top 10 or 15 all-time great champs. Walcott's weaknesses was the he was a hot/cold fighter and that he could be caught like Joe Louis had caught him in the 11th round of their 2nd fight. The bottom line, the best Jersey Joe Walcott would be a hand full for any of the top 10 all time greats ranging from Jack Johnson, Dempsey, Ali, and anyone else. If he were fighting today, he would be the undisputed heavyweight champion. Walcott would have a field day with today's heavyweights using his blend of power, speed, footwork, ring generalship, etc.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Quote Originally Posted by phlboxarc

    The best Walcott who ever stepped into the ring was in the first Marciano fight. It has been mentioned that he was slower than he was in the first Louis bout but he fought differently against Rocky. He had disdain for Rocky's abilities and fought a confident, aggressive battle because of this. Against Louis he was fighting a lot more cautiously-feinting, potshoting and sliding away. He probably would have beaten Louis had he had the same temperment and determination that he showed against Marciano.
    Chuck
    Conversely, I wonder what the outcome would have been had he fought Marciano the way he fought Louis? Feinting, potshotting, sliding away....could he have beaten Rocky with a less aggressive approach in your opinion? I always thought so, but I could be wrong...

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surf-Bat
    Conversely, I wonder what the outcome would have been had he fought Marciano the way he fought Louis? Feinting, potshotting, sliding away....could he have beaten Rocky with a less aggressive approach in your opinion? I always thought so, but I could be wrong...
    Not sure, but I do think the 34 year old Jersey Joe who lost controversially to Louis beats Marciano on points.

    Elmer asked me "if Walcott employed a bad strategy in the Marciano fight, why was he so successful?"

    I seem to recall the fight ending with Walcott's face on the canvas. You can't slug it out with a younger harder-hitting foe for 15 rounds at 38 years old.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Quote Originally Posted by sr71ko
    In my opinion, Jersey Joe Walcott was one hell of a fighter. He was better than many contenders and champions. Walcott was better than Max Baer, Patterson, Quarry, Lyle, Schmeling, Sharkey, Carnera, and a host of other fighters. Walcott nearly beat a prime Marciano in their 1st fight and if he was 4-5 years younger, he might have. Walcott would be a tough fight for Tyson, Holmes, Holyfield, Foreman, Frazier, and Lennox Lewis. He put Joe Louis, perhaps the greatest heavyweight champ of all-time, on the mat 3 times in 2 fights. Walcott in my opinion is just below the top 10 or 15 all-time great champs. Walcott's weaknesses was the he was a hot/cold fighter and that he could be caught like Joe Louis had caught him in the 11th round of their 2nd fight. The bottom line, the best Jersey Joe Walcott would be a hand full for any of the top 10 all time greats ranging from Jack Johnson, Dempsey, Ali, and anyone else. If he were fighting today, he would be the undisputed heavyweight champion. Walcott would have a field day with today's heavyweights using his blend of power, speed, footwork, ring generalship, etc.
    I tend to agree. I think that Walcott at his best--Louis I, Marciano I--was very impressive. I think that his skills and punching power would give him a win over Holyfield, and I think that Lewis would have to be keep the jab going all night to avoid a loss, either by KO or UD, to a prime Walcott.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Quote Originally Posted by hagler04
    Not sure, but I do think the 34 year old Jersey Joe who lost controversially to Louis beats Marciano on points.

    Elmer asked me "if Walcott employed a bad strategy in the Marciano fight, why was he so successful?"

    I seem to recall the fight ending with Walcott's face on the canvas. You can't slug it out with a younger harder-hitting foe for 15 rounds at 38 years old.
    Well, he did it for 13 and a half rounds pretty successfully. So I can't say it was a bad strategy but he probably could have employed a better one- like you suggested- that would have secured him the win. It seems like everyone was hellbent on beating Rocky at his own game. Moore, Charles and Walcott all slugged it out with him (with reasonable success for a time). Makes you wonder what would have happened if one of the greats employed a bit of footwork and movement....

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Many fighters who took on the Rock thought they could beat this apparently crude slugger. This was of course from the safety of a ringside seat. As so many found out when in the ring with Marciano he was not so slow as they thought nor as crude a slugger, and of course never stopped coming at you. Maybe just maybe, it was the pressure from the Rock that forced them to get into close combat with him rather then them being able to move and box as they would have liked to.

    Moving on to Walcott if my old memory serves me right when he fought Louis many though Walcott should have got the decision. Again working on old memories, did not even Louis look surprised when he came out the winner in there first meeting.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Jersey Joe was one of the most skilled, dangerous and fistic originals in the history of boxing. He had both hands and on top of his game was one of the most dangerous 195lb guys ever. His right hand and left hook and left uppercut were A+. I met him spent a lot of time with him in the summer of 88 and got to know him a bit in the 70's too. I grilled him on boxing like you would not believe. He was such a sweet man I could hardly believe he was such a killer in the ring. I truly loved him and the time I spent with him.

    I know about all his losses, the sordid side of his career and the pressures put upon him. Bottom line is that he was a destroyer and a man's man. He had it all and I treasure the time spent with him. He gave me a big hug and believe me I respected him with all my heart.

    I was truly saddened by his passing and grew to love and respect him.

    Ron

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Jersey Joe was one of the most skilled, dangerous and fistic originals in the history of boxing. He had both hands and on top of his game was one of the most dangerous 195lb guys ever. His right hand and left hook and left uppercut were A+. I met him spent a lot of time with him in the summer of 88 and got to know him a bit in the 70's too. I grilled him on boxing like you would not believe. He was such a sweet man I could hardly believe he was such a killer in the ring. I truly loved him and the time I spent with him.

    I know about all his losses, the sordid side of his career and the pressures put upon him. Bottom line is that he was a destroyer and a man's man. He had it all and I treasure the time spent with him. He always gave me a big hug when he saw me and believe me I respected him with all my heart.

    I was truly saddened by his passing anlove and d grew to respect him.

    Ron

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Last line should read:

    I was truly saddened by his passing and grew to love and respect the man.

    Ron

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildhawke11
    Maybe just maybe, it was the pressure from the Rock that forced them to get into close combat with him rather then them being able to move and box as they would have liked to.
    The films don't support this possibility, Hawke. Walcott went right after him, torpedoes be damned. Charles and Moore stood right in front of him as well. Marciano didn't need to force the trench warfare with these guys. They were more than willing.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    I believe that Joe really did not respect Marciano coming into the first fight and did think he would take him out fairly easy ... once it became a fight and Walcott saw what a fight he was in for there was no way out ... he had extended himself and that was that ... if you watch the bout there is no doubt that Walcott's stamina became a major issue as might be imagined considering his advanced age .. Do I question if Marciano could have defeated a younger Walcott. Without question ...

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Lipton
    Jersey Joe was one of the most skilled, dangerous and fistic originals in the history of boxing. He had both hands and on top of his game was one of the most dangerous 195lb guys ever. His right hand and left hook and left uppercut were A+. I met him spent a lot of time with him in the summer of 88 and got to know him a bit in the 70's too. I grilled him on boxing like you would not believe. He was such a sweet man I could hardly believe he was such a killer in the ring. I truly loved him and the time I spent with him.

    I know about all his losses, the sordid side of his career and the pressures put upon him. Bottom line is that he was a destroyer and a man's man. He had it all and I treasure the time spent with him. He always gave me a big hug when he saw me and believe me I respected him with all my heart.

    I was truly saddened by his passing anlove and d grew to respect him.

    Ron
    Hey Ron,,

    Could you shed some light on some of Joe's more suprising losses in his career? I've read that he often came into fights on short-notice/not completly healthy to put food on the table but never heard details. It seems that a ready Walcott would never lose to Johnny Allen or even big Abe Simon.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    As most boxing fans who know Joe (Arnold Cream) realize he did come off of a welfare "Relief" situation and although he had amazing natural talent and honed skills, he had to deal with a more sordid side of boxing to get work and keep getting paid to survive in those days. His manager had questionable ties to the mob and it is my belief that Joe was forced to become a pawn at times to these forces. Like Dempsey losing to Flynn in the day from riding the rails and not eating right, these things happen.

    When a fighter gets a call to come out of the gym or out of his home to fill in you either take it or you don't. Not everyone can be a Moore or Mims and answer the call 100% fit at all times.

    The second Marciano fight was and is in a niche with Ali v Liston II. A few others also. Less said the better.

    Not everyone can be a Sugar Ray Robinson and tell Frankie Carbo or Blinky Palermo to take a hike and live to tell about it.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Not everyone can be a Sugar Ray Robinson and tell Frankie Carbo or Blinky Palermo to take a hike and live to tell about it.


    So bloody true Ron, Its hard to compare the times today with the days long gone now.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Less known is the fact that Walcott was a bagman and his actions led to his being 'quietly" removed from the NJ commission.

    His skills were one thing -- his moral code another.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    This is true and one cannot deny what actually existed. I still admired the old champ for his skills and always understood the pressures he had to endure.


    But Mike is right about that.

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    Bagman meaning accepting bribes ?

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    Re: Whats ur thoughts on jersey joe walcott?

    I don't know where to rank him, but he is one of my favorite Heavys. The guys was beautiful to watch. Countering, raw one punch power, quick combinations. Orthodox skills and unorthodox skills combined to perfection. At 38 dropped and outboxed Maricano for 14 rounds.

    Louis had his hands full, so did Charles. I think Ali has his hands full. In a fighter like Walcott, he is facing a fighter with power higher than Frazier, and hand speed as quick as his. I think he beats Walcott, but he has a time of it because I think Walcott will figure Ali out and confuse Ali's rythm for a time.

    Guys that Walcott cannot beat are the guys who don't care about what you are doing, but are more concerned about what they are going to do to you. Liston, Dempsey, Forman, Frazier, all get Walcott outta there.

    He will want to fool them and present issues for them to figure while giving them abuse along the way, but they will in clutch time deliever a new pace and finish things.

    I love the guy for what he was. A Great pioneer boxer puncher.

    BTW, how good was his left. He dropped Maricano early with a one-shotter. And Ezzard...My goodness. The left hook/uppercut was the truth.
    Last edited by JLP 6; 10-14-2008 at 12:31 PM.

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